Sexual Harrassment is "Part of the fighting game community"

[ZimMan2]

This is why I hate modern gamer culture. (penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/sexual-harassment-as-ethical-imperative-the-ugly-side-of-fighting-games)

[KirbyKrackle]

It's disgraceful behavior.

[Personamanx]

Ugh, pretty horrible.

[AthenAltena]

Yuck. The very fact that they tried to defend this behavior should tell you right away how screwed up their priorities are.

[JBK405]

It's horrible and, like all attempts to justify abhorrent behavior, stands on fundamentally flawed logic; namely, that of "tradition" and the apparent asumption that a tradition should stand simply because it is a tradition (it also falsely assumes that being offensive actually is a tradition of fighting games, as opposed to simply his own style).

[Corrina]

Ugh. Horrified, appalled and a little bit gobsmacked at the defenders, who clearly see women as "the other" rather than people.

"I was only joking" excuse is why early feminists were accused of having no sense of humor. Because that excuse was used to justify many incredibly shitty behaviors.

[Ryan Elliott]

You hate the entire gamer culture? The ENTIRE thing?

Sure you don't want to rethink that statement?

[ZimMan2]

You hate the entire gamer culture? The ENTIRE thing?

Sure you don't want to rethink that statement?

The vast majority of it. And like I said, "modern." Like, 2000-onward.

[Chris Jones]

I guess they missed the memo that "shit talking" and "being an actual piece of shit" are different concepts.

[Ryan Elliott]

The vast majority of it. And like I said, "modern." Like, 2000-onward.


Why just the Aughts and not the Atari, NES, SNES, Genesis, N64 era?

You don't think gamers back then weren't also most of the time sexist douchebags and assholes?

[ZimMan2]

Why just the Aughts and not the Atari, NES, SNES, Genesis, N64 era?

You don't think gamers back then weren't also most of the time sexist douchebags and assholes?

They didn't have a worldwide stage to spread their stupidity and most of them had the (admittedly lame) excuse of being kids.

[Ryan Elliott]

They didn't have a worldwide stage to spread their stupidity and most of them had the (admittedly lame) excuse of being kids.

I'm not sure I understand your point.

Are you saying it's alright as long as they didn't have an audience? Or at the very least it's excusable because they didn't have the internet?

[AthenAltena]

I'm not sure I understand your point.

Are you saying it's alright as long as they didn't have an audience? Or at the very least it's excusable because they didn't have the internet?

I interpreted it more as even if those feelings existed (which I have no doubt they did) they had less of an ability to do it as a group, since people are more likely to do something like this if among a group of like minded people. And part of the GIFT (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19) is that having an audience plus anonymity brings out the worst in people.

[ZimMan2]

I interpreted it more as even if those feelings existed (which I have no doubt they did) they had less of an ability to do it as a group, since people are more likely to do something like this if among a group of like minded people.

Exactly.

[AthenAltena]

Exactly.

Or put another way, a group of assholes who can feed off each other's stupidity is worse than a singular asshole, since while any given individual asshole is annoying in themselves having others who share their views and laugh at their jokes encourages that behavior. Plus when people are on their own they generally have the sense to keep things to themselves while they're more likely to share it in a group. It also ties into gang theory where people who might not ever do anything bad on their own are much more likely to in a group of their peers.

[ZimMan2]

Yes, also, Ryan, I'm not sure what you're getting at yourself. You're not really making a good case for gamer culture, as you're implying that this kind of behavior has been breeding itself for a long time. I was ready to give older generations the benefit of the doubt, but if you're saying I'm wrong, then well, how does that help your case?

[Shurato2099]

I've seen this kind of behavior rather a bit in MMOs with the hard-core PvP crowd and the fighting game bunch strikes me in much the same way where 'fun' is smacking your opponent down as hard as you can and talking trash about him/her while you do it. It's a testosterone-fest, see who can be the alpha dog. I have never known anyone heavily into that kind of mindset that had the least bit of respect for anyone who wasn't another alpha-mutt.

[Ryan Elliott]

Yes, also, Ryan, I'm not sure what you're getting at yourself. You're not really making a good case for gamer culture, as you're implying that this kind of behavior has been breeding itself for a long time. I was ready to give older generations the benefit of the doubt, but if you're saying I'm wrong, then well, how does that help your case?

You said you hate the entirety of gamer culture. That thought is silly since the entirety of gamer culture isn't sexist and douchebaggy.

Then you said you hate MODERN gamer culture. Well, okay. Then I asked why just the modern gamer culture since I'm willing to bet that sexism has been present for as long as video games have been around, and not just since the invention of the internet.

And AthenaAltena's point is moot since I'm ALSO willing to bet that sexist douchebags, or sexist kid douchebags or whatever, were perfectly capable of getting a group of their friends together on the weekend and make "dumb girls are gross" jokes to their heart's content.

So, in a way, your original statement(that being you hate gamer culture, and then you said you hated MODERN gamer culture) made no sense at all.

[Ryan Elliott]

And on the flipside.

Consider that you're playing a game with other people online. Be it PSN, XBoxLive, an MMORPG, whatever.

You see/hear somebody say something douchebaggy. "Haw haw pwned you fag/you pwn like a weak dumb girl" etc. Would you not then tell them to shut the fuck up with that shit?

I know I would. Make them learn their place, and make it clear their shit is not welcome.

So I would say modern gamer culture has its ups and downs, and to blast it entirely is silly. There are good apples and bad apples in literally EVERY culture. Regardless of internet or anonymity.

[ZimMan2]

How's this, then: I hate the vast majority of gamer culture, regardless of generation. There are obvious exceptions, but it seems to me that most it is either sexist douchebags, obnoxious fanboys, or elitist snobs with their heads up their asses.

Better?

[Ryan Elliott]

How's this, then: I hate the vast majority of gamer culture, regardless of generation. There are obvious exceptions, but it seems to me that most it is either sexist douchebags, obnoxious fanboys, or elitist snobs with their heads up their asses.

Better?

Slightly.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Funny how in a thread about an issue caused by ignorance, we are seeing a group condemned for the actions of some of it's members.

A gamer being a good person is not this rare elusive thing.

[K-DoG7p7]

And on the flipside.

Consider that you're playing a game with other people online. Be it PSN, XBoxLive, an MMORPG, whatever.

You see/hear somebody say something douchebaggy. "Haw haw pwned you fag/you pwn like a weak dumb girl" etc. Would you not then tell them to shut the fuck up with that shit?

I know I would. Make them learn their place, and make it clear their shit is not welcome.

So I would say modern gamer culture has its ups and downs, and to blast it entirely is silly. There are good apples and bad apples in literally EVERY culture. Regardless of internet or anonymity.

Its better to just report them
Like I did yesterday when I played against "GermanOvenJew"

[ZimMan2]

I make a distinction between gamers and gamer culture.

A gamer is just someone who plays games. They don't have to be a part of any online communities or even interact with other gamers. It might just be a hobby.

Gamer culture is the masses, the combination of all the gamers and how they interact with each other, and I don't think it's hard to argue that the majority of those groups (especially today) are rather insufferable.

Like, when I voice my frustrations with the Transformers fandom, I'm not necessarily lambasting all Transformers fans (as I would be lambasting myself), I'm talking about the community as a whole.

[Treacle]

That is disgusting.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

I run into good people in the community all the time. So do lots of other gamers. The assholes stand out more. They are more noticeable and memorable because they are assholes. That doesn't mean there isn't a significant amount of people within "gamer culture" that aren't assholes.

[Ryan Elliott]

I make a distinction between gamers and gamer culture.

A gamer is just someone who plays games. They don't have to be a part of any online communities or even interact with other gamers. It might just be a hobby.

Gamer culture is the masses, the combination of all the gamers and how they interact with each other, and I don't think it's hard to argue that the majority of those groups (especially today) are rather insufferable.

Like, when I voice my frustrations with the Transformers fandom, I'm not necessarily lambasting all Transformers fans (as I would be lambasting myself), I'm talking about the community as a whole.

wat

[Tyr]

This is why I hate modern gamer culture. (penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/sexual-harassment-as-ethical-imperative-the-ugly-side-of-fighting-games)

Ladies, if your tired of this kind of behavior, here's what you need to do. Play with me. I promise not to make lewd sexual insults in my trash talk, that is when I do trash talk. The closest I'd come to sexual harassment is asking if I can buy you a drink with a Stephen Hawking type voice filter. Because I think that would be funny, and I like making people laugh.

I do not care what is between your legs, I just care about finding another team member, or someone I can actually talk to when I'm playing games with them.

[zemo]

Fighting game players are the scummy underbelly of the gamer world. In other news: Dogs wag tails, and the sky is now blue!

I realize this is a broad statement. But you will find an incredible amount of douchebags in any parts of game that allow for real humans to fight each other, even more so in an area with as much posturing and violence as fighting games.

[K-DoG7p7]

Ladies, if your tired of this kind of behavior, here's what you need to do. Play with me. I promise not to make lewd sexual insults in my trash talk, that is when I do trash talk. The closest I'd come to sexual harassment is asking if I can buy you a drink with a Stephen Hawking type voice filter. Because I think that would be funny, and I like making people laugh.

I do not care what is between your legs, I just care about finding another team member, or someone I can actually talk to when I'm playing games with them.

Or me.
I don't use a microphone and i mute everyone else.

[Cassandra]

How's this, then: I hate the vast majority of gamer culture, regardless of generation. There are obvious exceptions, but it seems to me that most it is either sexist douchebags, obnoxious fanboys, or elitist snobs with their heads up their asses.

Better?
I'm a gamer and I hope I'm not any of those things.

Sadly the behavior displayed in that fighting game show is all too common. It's the reason I never play my MMOs or FPS' online with a microphone. When other players find out I'm a girl they either start abusing me simply for being female or start hitting on me.

Kudos to Miranda for leaving that awful game.

[Little Scandal]

“There is nothing unacceptable about that. We’re in America! This isn’t North Korea! We can say what we want.” 5th amendment gone way too far.

I think I'll just stick to my DCUO and other family friendly games. Bring on the laughter.

I know that if this were just joe blow down the street screaming that stuff, he'd probably get arrested. I don't get why these idiots aren't slapped with a penelty or anything. It's discusting.

[Little Scandal]

It's the reason I never play my MMOs or FPS' online with a microphone. When other players find out I'm a girl they either start abusing me simply for being female or start hitting on me. I'm a female gamer myself and a lot of people don't realize it until I start to talk. I, thank god, am with a league that is very strict with that kind of behaviour. At first they didn't believe I was a girl, until I used my mic. It's the running joke now (which I'm ok with) but they never cross the line with it. In fact, they are very respectful and promote that kind of attitude in the DCUO game itself.

But in this day in age, you'd think that we've evolved into something a little more...intelligent. It's sad to know that certain attitudes haven't changed at all - it's just getting worse.

[Ziggy Stardust]

This is why I hate modern gamer culture. (penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/sexual-harassment-as-ethical-imperative-the-ugly-side-of-fighting-games)

That's horrible, horrible behavior. And ethe "this is how it is.... because we say it's how it is" argument is lame and about as mature as things my 7 year-old son says.

Sexual harassment cannot be excused in ANY environment. I say shut some of these assholes down.

[zemo]

Kudos to Miranda for leaving that awful game.

You just know the assholes will use this as an argument how women are the lesser gamers because of their feelings and not being able to take the heat.

[Corrina]

Maybe female games should start coming up with similar insults and see how these guys like it.

Wait, they don't, witness their wining about being called on it. :)

[Slewo.O]

Maybe female games should start coming up with similar insults and see how these guys like it.

Wait, they don't, witness their wining about being called on it. :)

They get drunk after getting picked on by morons? Seems a tad harsh, Corrina. :p

[Weeto]

About the worst behaviour I ever came across on an online game was about 3 years ago.

I was playing a 4 way match on a WWE game where it was everyone for themselves and this one guy was swearing at and arguing with everyone else and then accusing the other three players of attacking his player constantly and even tag teaming him.

He had the cheek to put a negative review about myself and the other two players in the game despite him being the bully. Needless to say, he got his ass handed to him in the game, although it was me who ended up being pinned by one of the other clean players as the idiot was knocked out of the ring and the match was continuing.

WWE games seem to be a Mecca for dumbasses though, which is probably an obvious thing if you've ever seen wrestling.

[Thequeerjock]

Gross. They need to grow the hell up.

[JBK405]

5th amendment gone way too far.

First, not fifth (Sorry, I'm a pedant).

But that is also just wrong; the first amendmant prevents the government from abridging freedom of speech. If you're in somebody else's house, or playing on their server, or in their car, they can tell you to stop saying whatever they like. They can't force you, but they have just as much right to say "shut up" as you have to say whatever offensive garbage you're saying.

[Dreg]

Culturally speaking, I think Penny Arcade is the bigger fish in the gaming world. And I'm glad they decided to report on it. This report was made by a huge, legit icon in gaming culture.

Gamers tend to fall into a category where it's easy to cast the entire community in a bad light because of the actions of the most vocal. Being a comic book fan and a science fiction fan, I'm familiar with just how easy it is to dismiss an individual entirely because of the stuff they like, and ascribing a "culture" to them that may not actually permeate the larger community. But if you disagree, there's this show called "Big Bang Theory" that really takes us to task for being sexist, socially-stunted, affection-starved man-children, and you might get a big laugh out of it.

Personally, I think the greater internet fuckwad theory is in full effect, and gamers just happen to be one of the bigger groups to fall under its umbrella.

However, it seems that even the word "gamer" is something selectively applied only to people who meet a very narrow and unflattering definition. Half the planet plays video games regularly. Fact. I consider anybody who plays games regularly a "gamer."

[EmarAndZeb]

5th amendment gone way too far.

I don't think it's the "First amendment gone too far" in the sense that we shouldn't expect the government to crack down on speech we dislike. That is what the First amendment protects against, assuming you're not straight up inciting violence against citizens or officials or the like (so-called "bad tendency" test, which is tough to prove). Of course, what the First amendment doesn't protect against - which jackasses like this frequently forget - is public censure when you say some stupid-ass, hateful thing. So, yeah, in a legal sense, he absolutely can say this shit... and the rest of us absolutely can (and should!) say that it is horrible that he does, and absolutely reprehensible that he would object to this slight change in his behavior as some kind of odious infringement on his person.

Chris Sims did a post about this on his blog that was pretty good (http://www.the-isb.com/?p=6772), and summed this part up pretty well...


...But once you hit that point, once you know you’re doing something wrong, the only course of action that makes sense is to stop. It’s to try and change the way you’re acting, because if you don’t, then you’re just being a jerk for absolutely no reason. You’re making someone else’s life worse because you don’t want to make the smallest change to your own.


If sexual harassment is such an intrinsic part of your community that it can’t be taken out without “turning it into something that it’s not,” then just as a rule of thumb, it probably should be turned into something that it’s not.

If your community can’t introduce a baseline of respect for another human being without being destroyed, then your community should probably be burned to the ground and have salt spread on the ashes so that it’ll never come back.

Dude may be "free" to talk this way in America (and in the majority of the world, really); but the rest of us are under no obligation to treat him and his ilk as normal or acceptable for doing so. Call them out on their bullshit. Organize alternative events which foster an inclusive atmosphere (except to douchey behavior). Place pressure on the community to change that way. I mean, Capcom already felt the need to issue an apology, which obviously doesn't make this "all better now", but does indicate that the eyes of the industry are at least somewhat concerned about backlash.

[Little Scandal]

First, not fifth (Sorry, I'm a pedant). Sorry :surrend:. Canadian. We don't have amendments up here. We just have hockey...

[JBK405]

I'll let it go....this time.

[EmarAndZeb]

In all fairness, the 1st and 2nd amendments are probably the only two amendments that maybe 2/3's of U.S. people know off the top of their heads. The rest of 'em the majority of people are pretty hazy on.

"Third Amendment is... thou shalt not... draw and quarter our soldiers?"

[JBK405]

They do know the fifth, too, even if they don't know how it actually works (Despite what TV says, you cannot plead the fifth. You can invoke your fifth amendment right against self-incrimination, but pleading it doesn't mean anything at all). If I had one that I specifically wish more people would know, it'd be the ninth (The explicit statement that just because a right has not been specifically protected by the Constitution does not mean that the right does not exist).

[zemo]

First, not fifth (Sorry, I'm a pedant).

But that is also just wrong; the first amendmant prevents the government from abridging freedom of speech. If you're in somebody else's house, or playing on their server, or in their car, they can tell you to stop saying whatever they like. They can't force you, but they have just as much right to say "shut up" as you have to say whatever offensive garbage you're saying.

Well, they can force you insofar as they can allow or forbid you to partake in the discussion. The first amendment and even a few human rights are actually slightly reduced when it comes to areas of private or particular governmental interest. Otherwise school, where children most certainly are being held against their will, would be impossible.

Or: Don't flaunt the civil liberties sword if you don't know how it works, you'll lose a toe.

[Morrison_Lad]

First, not fifth (Sorry, I'm a pedant).

But that is also just wrong; the first amendmant prevents the government from abridging freedom of speech. If you're in somebody else's house, or playing on their server, or in their car, they can tell you to stop saying whatever they like. They can't force you, but they have just as much right to say "shut up" as you have to say whatever offensive garbage you're saying.

Exactly. Well said.

[Benel Germosen]

So the PA Reports gets more of my love for stuff like this. Um...aside....


...one of the reasons I don't play multiplayer games (except Assassins Creed 2) is because of bullshit like this. I don't like having my experience ruined by stupid assholes. I deal with enough stupid assholes 22 hours of the day. I don't need it for that 23rd hour where I'm playing video games.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Sorry :surrend:. Canadian. We don't have amendments up here. We just have hockey...

And we have moose... and beer.

[K-DoG7p7]

So the PA Reports gets more of my love for stuff like this. Um...aside....


...one of the reasons I don't play multiplayer games (except Assassins Creed 2) is because of bullshit like this. I don't like having my experience ruined by stupid assholes. I deal with enough stupid assholes 22 hours of the day. I don't need it for that 23rd hour where I'm playing video games.

Just don't put on a microphone and set the rest to mute and you will never have to hear them or speak to them.
also nice post count, 8888

[Little Scandal]

And we have moose... and beer....and bever tail. Can't ever forget that!

Cool avatar btw.

[Little Scandal]

I'll let it go....this time. Thank you oh great one *bows dramatically*

[Ziggy Stardust]

...and bever tail. Can't ever forget that!

Cool avatar btw.

Thanks! My son's hooked on the Stooges right now and reviving my love for them. :)

[JBK405]

And we have moose... and beer.

I prefer moose and squirrel, but I suppose that's just me.

[Chris Jones]

Culturally speaking, I think Penny Arcade is the bigger fish in the gaming world. And I'm glad they decided to report on it. This report was made by a huge, legit icon in gaming culture.

Gamers tend to fall into a category where it's easy to cast the entire community in a bad light because of the actions of the most vocal. Being a comic book fan and a science fiction fan, I'm familiar with just how easy it is to dismiss an individual entirely because of the stuff they like, and ascribing a "culture" to them that may not actually permeate the larger community. But if you disagree, there's this show called "Big Bang Theory" that really takes us to task for being sexist, socially-stunted, affection-starved man-children, and you might get a big laugh out of it.

Personally, I think the greater internet fuckwad theory is in full effect, and gamers just happen to be one of the bigger groups to fall under its umbrella.

However, it seems that even the word "gamer" is something selectively applied only to people who meet a very narrow and unflattering definition. Half the planet plays video games regularly. Fact. I consider anybody who plays games regularly a "gamer."

My brother follows gaming culture a lot more closely than I do and he told me that Aris is basically King Asshole when it comes to the fighting game community. We had a little debate about the whole thing and I essentially said that if you effectively bludgeon somebody out of ever wanting to play fighting games competitively again, than yes, the shit talking has gone too far. He was also completely bewildered that Aris was saying this to someone on his OWN TEAM-he said that usually he just pulls that kind of stuff to get in the head of the competition and fuck up their game.

Even at that, though...he was picking on her REALLY specifically, REALLY creepily. And then his weird defense of the whole thing...I think there's a line where if you pull the "I have the right to act like a shithead" card enough you probably aren't acting, you probably just are and you need to get a fucking clue. Of course his whole thing is that he doesn't care how the fighting game community is perceived and actually LIKES that it's a hostile, vulgar atmosphere, which is one of the things that makes these situations so hard to change, when the "big names"(relatively speaking) are content with and in fact condone this behavior.

[Laevatein]

Disgusting, and kudos for Penny Arcade for calling them out on it. But let's not forget that Penny Arcade aren't exactly paragons of virtue in this department themselves. Google "dickwolves" if you don't know what I'm talking about.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

The Dickwolves thing was a mess, but not because of the original comic. It was basically an issue of people interpreting the comic and the joke incorrectly, saying it was making fun of rape when it wasn't. What they actually did wrong was taking a "if you don't like it, fuck off" attitude instead of just saying "sorry guys, that wasn't the intent behind the strip and we apologize to everyone who felt it came off like that."

[Ryan Elliott]

The Dickwolves thing was a mess, but not because of the original comic. It was basically an issue of people interpreting the comic and the joke incorrectly, saying it was making fun of rape when it wasn't. What they actually did wrong was taking a "if you don't like it, fuck off" attitude instead of just saying "sorry guys, that wasn't the intent behind the strip and we apologize to everyone who felt it came off like that."

Getting accused of perpetuating rape culture would piss me off too.

Mike handled it his own way. Which is exactly the same way he handled the recent crap with the douchebag about the PS3 controller. And people applauded him for it.

PA did the RIGHT thing by distancing themselves away from the "Team Rape" people that popped up in "defense" of the comic in question. Those guys are assholes, Penny Arcade is not.

[Cassandra]

The Dickwolves thing was a mess, but not because of the original comic. It was basically an issue of people interpreting the comic and the joke incorrectly, saying it was making fun of rape when it wasn't. What they actually did wrong was taking a "if you don't like it, fuck off" attitude instead of just saying "sorry guys, that wasn't the intent behind the strip and we apologize to everyone who felt it came off like that."
Indeed. This article has gone a tiny way to redeeming Penny Arcade in my eyes but not much. While I didn't have much of a problem with the Dick Wolves comic itself, I did have a problem with Gabe and co.'s insensitive attitude towards rape culture and the feelings of those that were hurt by it.

Apparently Aris has apologised:

I understand that I said some controversial statements on the Cross Assault show, and a lot of people are deeply offended with what was said. When I made these statements, I was very heated as I felt that the culture of a scene I have been a part of for over 15 years was being threatened. I unfortunately used extreme examples in the heat of the moment and feel that my statements don’t actually communicate how I feel. This is similar to what people say when they get into an argument with their girlfriend, and they say things that they deeply regret. I sincerely apologize if I have offended anyone. My statements do not reflect those of Capcom or myself. The last thing I want to do is get them in trouble for giving me and the fighting game community the opportunity to have an amazing show like this.

What I was trying to communicate is that mild hostility has always been a defining characteristic of the fighting game scene. Back when arcades were more prevalent, people didn’t like newcomers, and players needed to fight and pay their dues to get respect. The debate I was in was with a person who supported professional leagues, who have intent to censor the community to make it more accessible. I think the sink or swim mentality is something that defined our culture, and if that succeeds it removes something which has been important to help create some of the best fighting game players of our time. I was unfortunately unable to make this point clearly. Again, I am deeply sorry for offending anyone. This was a combination of the people taking things out of context and my own inability in the heat of the moment to defend myself and the community I have loved for over 15 years.
Article here: http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/feb/29/aris-apologizes-says-previous-statements-do-not-represent-how-he-feels/

Is it just me or does he never actually apologize for sexually harassing Miranda during the competition? He seems to only be apologizing for saying that sexual harassment and fighting games going hand-in-hand; not referencing anything that happened before the shit-storm that happened on day 5 that caused people to pounce on his behavior. He says that he reacted the way he did because 'I was very heated as I felt that the culture of a scene I have been a part of for over 15 years was being threatened.'
By what exactly? Girls playing your fighting games or someone calling you out on your bullshit and suggesting that sexual harassment doesn't belong anywhere?


I mean at least the guy apologized but wow. I don't think he gets it at all.

[Dreg]

Disgusting, and kudos for Penny Arcade for calling them out on it. But let's not forget that Penny Arcade aren't exactly paragons of virtue in this department themselves. Google "dickwolves" if you don't know what I'm talking about.

They were specifically speaking of male rape, though, and that has seemingly been a cherished part of American comedy for years.

[ZimMan2]

Sorry, Aris, but you're still an asshole.

[Dreg]

Indeed. This article has gone a tiny way to redeeming Penny Arcade in my eyes but not much. While I didn't have much of a problem with the Dick Wolves comic itself, I did have a problem with Gabe and co.'s insensitive attitude towards rape culture and the feelings of those that were hurt by it.

Apparently Aris has apologised:

Article here: http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/feb/29/aris-apologizes-says-previous-statements-do-not-represent-how-he-feels/

Is it just me or does he never actually apologize for sexually harassing Miranda during the competition? He seems to only be apologizing for saying that sexual harassment and fighting games going hand-in-hand; not referencing anything that happened before the shit-storm that happened on day 5 that caused people to pounce on his behavior. He says that he reacted the way he did because 'I was very heated as I felt that the culture of a scene I have been a part of for over 15 years was being threatened.'
By what exactly? Girls playing your fighting games or someone calling you out on your bullshit and suggesting that sexual harassment doesn't belong anywhere?


I mean at least the guy apologized but wow. I don't think he gets it at all.

No, guys, you don't understand. It's like being in a fight with your girlfriend, where you just say all kinds of hurtful, offensive shit and it's OK, because she's only your girlfriend.

[Cassandra]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUU it makes me blood angry. I hear a Red Lantern ring calling my name.

[Treacle]

Apparently Aris has apologised:

Article here: http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/feb/29/aris-apologizes-says-previous-statements-do-not-represent-how-he-feels/

Is it just me or does he never actually apologize for sexually harassing Miranda during the competition? He seems to only be apologizing for saying that sexual harassment and fighting games going hand-in-hand; not referencing anything that happened before the shit-storm that happened on day 5 that caused people to pounce on his behavior. He says that he reacted the way he did because 'I was very heated as I felt that the culture of a scene I have been a part of for over 15 years was being threatened.'
By what exactly? Girls playing your fighting games or someone calling you out on your bullshit and suggesting that sexual harassment doesn't belong anywhere?


I mean at least the guy apologized but wow. I don't think he gets it at all.

I wouldn't call that an apology.

Saying, "I'm sorry you were offended," is not the same as "I'm sorry I said offensive stuff."

[Chris Jones]

Also, if you watch the video he interjects himself into the conversation. He has no excuse for being caught off guard or whatever; every aspect of his role in the conversation was something that he initiated.

[Cassandra]

Indeed. Btw Treacle, I don't what your signature is from but it's fabulous.

[Cassandra]

Also here's Miranda's Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan
Looks like the poor girl is getting some awful flak because of this, even from women. I'm following her and am going to give her some uber virtual-hugs, I encourage you all to do the same.

[Little Scandal]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUU it makes me blood angry. I hear a Red Lantern ring calling my name. I've got a yellow ring. Let's go to town on this douche.

[Cassandra]

I've got a yellow ring. Let's go to town on this douche.
All we need now is an Orange Lantern to collect up all the douche-y parts when we destory the main douche entities and fire the lot of them into the sun. :lol:

[Astonishing X-Fan]

They were specifically speaking of male rape, though, and that has seemingly been a cherished part of American comedy for years.

The joke wasn't about rape, the joke was about how heroes in WoW and other MMOs are not actually heroic at all with the way quests work in the game world.

[trypr]

I'm appalled and disgusted to find out about this: I feel ashamed to even consider myself a fighting game fan if this is what goes on in tournaments.

[Treacle]

Indeed. Btw Treacle, I don't what your signature is from but it's fabulous.

RuPaul's Drag Race, which is quite possibly the best reality show ever. :D

[Treacle]

Also here's Miranda's Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/Super__Yan
Looks like the poor girl is getting some awful flak because of this, even from women. I'm following her and am going to give her some uber virtual-hugs, I encourage you all to do the same.

Done.

[Lester C.]

A legendary evil bastard was a vegetarian, it doesn't mean that all vegetarians are evil bastards just the one. In 2011 video games sold 17 billion dollars according to most links I found, I wanted to get fighting game sales but I think I can still make my point. Say, and I'm making this up, but say fighting games sold eight billion dollars in 2011, even if you had a couple hundred posters sexually harassing women, that is still a minuscule percentage of people who play fighting games and to lump the entire culture of people who play fighting games as collectively sexually harassing women is as ridiculous as saying that all vegetarians are evil bastards.

This isn't to say that there isn't a real problem with women being sexually harassed on the internet, but whenever a forum is unmodded ass-hats will appear in all their glory and be as malicious as they can for as long as they can get away with it. This is true as a whole for the internet as a whole and is not endemic to people who play fighting games.

[zemo]

A legendary evil bastard was a vegetarian, it doesn't mean that all vegetarians are evil bastards just the one. In 2011 video games sold 17 billion dollars according to most links I found, I wanted to get fighting game sales but I think I can still make my point. Say, and I'm making this up, but say fighting games sold eight billion dollars in 2011, even if you had a couple hundred posters sexually harassing women, that is still a minuscule percentage of people who play fighting games and to lump the entire culture of people who play fighting games as collectively sexually harassing women is as ridiculous as saying that all vegetarians are evil bastards.

This isn't to say that there isn't a real problem with women being sexually harassed on the internet, but whenever a forum is unmodded ass-hats will appear in all their glory and be as malicious as they can for as long as they can get away with it. This is true as a whole for the internet as a whole and is not endemic to people who play fighting games.

It stands to reason, however, that a type of game that consists only of obliterating your opponent and winning over them, going as far as having your character pose after a victory, will attract more assholes with a superiority complex than, say, a real time strategy game. In the same vein you will find more assholes on PvP server for MMORPGs than on RP or standard servers.

[Lester C.]

It stands to reason, however, that a type of game that consists only of obliterating your opponent and winning over them, going as far as having your character pose after a victory, will attract more assholes with a superiority complex than, say, a real time strategy game. In the same vein you will find more assholes on PvP server for MMORPGs than on RP or standard servers.

I wish there was a casual link to the video games one play and the way they comport themselves in the real/cyber world. Can you imagine what the world would if the seven million people who bought FF XIII got together in small parties hell bent on saving the world from the monsters? Some people may be what they eat but very few are the games they play, the movies they watch, the books they read etc as what we use those mediums to entertain ourselves in order to facilitate an escape from reality which isn't synonymous with wish fulfillment.

Again to be clear I am not arguing that sexual harassment and racist behavior doesn't take place on video games forums, it does and each site needs vigilant mods to stamp that shit out. Companies on a global scale should consider employing good mods as part of the cost of doing business. I just think the problem of trolls is universal and fans of the fighting video game genre shouldn't be isolated and demonetized anymore they CNN readers should be for the vile racial comments that piss me off from time to time in the comment section of their articles.

[DarkKnightJared]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUU it makes me blood angry. I hear a Red Lantern ring calling my name.


I've got a yellow ring. Let's go to town on this douche.


All we need now is an Orange Lantern to collect up all the douche-y parts when we destory the main douche entities and fire the lot of them into the sun. :lol:

I've got a blue ring, which means I...well, can do pretty much fuck-all in this situation. Sorry guys.

[Chris Jones]

I wish there was a casual link to the video games one play and the way they comport themselves in the real/cyber world. Can you imagine what the world would if the seven million people who bought FF XIII got together in small parties hell bent on saving the world from the monsters? Some people may be what they eat but very few are the games they play, the movies they watch, the books they read etc as what we use those mediums to entertain ourselves in order to facilitate an escape from reality which isn't synonymous with wish fulfillment.

Again to be clear I am not arguing that sexual harassment and racist behavior doesn't take place on video games forums, it does and each site needs vigilant mods to stamp that shit out. Companies on a global scale should consider employing good mods as part of the cost of doing business. I just think the problem of trolls is universal and fans of the fighting video game genre shouldn't be isolated and demonetized anymore they CNN readers should be for the vile racial comments that piss me off from time to time in the comment section of their articles.

The thing is, this IS a problem that's specific to competitive fighting games. The thing that started this all off was someone saying that he didn't enjoy how hostile and juvenile the fighting game circuit was compared to competitive Starcraft gatherings, in fact.

[Lester C.]

The thing is, this IS a problem that's specific to competitive fighting games. The thing that started this all off was someone saying that he didn't enjoy how hostile and juvenile the fighting game circuit was compared to competitive Starcraft gatherings, in fact.

I keep making the same point over and over again showing that I no longer have anything worthwhile to contribute to this discussion but you quoted me and it would be rude to ignore your comments. I'm not arguing that the fighting game circuit isn't toxic, I'm arguing that it's toxic because it's unmodded not because people who play such games are toxic. I would be very interested knowing how the Starcraft gatherings are regulated for toxic elements before deciding we are comparing apples to apples rather than apples to oranges.

[Chris Jones]

I keep making the same point over and over again showing that I no longer have anything worthwhile to contribute to this discussion but you quoted me and it would be rude to ignore your comments. I'm not arguing that the fighting game circuit isn't toxic, I'm arguing that it's toxic because it's unmodded not because people who play such games are toxic. I would be very interested knowing how the Starcraft gatherings are regulated for toxic elements before deciding we are comparing apples to apples rather than apples to oranges.

Ahh, okay, I get what you're saying.

[zemo]

I keep making the same point over and over again showing that I no longer have anything worthwhile to contribute to this discussion but you quoted me and it would be rude to ignore your comments. I'm not arguing that the fighting game circuit isn't toxic, I'm arguing that it's toxic because it's unmodded not because people who play such games are toxic. I would be very interested knowing how the Starcraft gatherings are regulated for toxic elements before deciding we are comparing apples to apples rather than apples to oranges.

I'd assume that Starcraft very much depends on which country we are talking about. I would very much assume that in South Korea, where they play for money, things can turn nasty. Mind you, the whole existence of the argument about the Zerg Rush proves that there are assholes everywhere.

Solely from experience, every game that lets you play one character against a character controled by another person, and which involves killing of said character, will be tendentially nastier than, say, a strategy game. It's just the whole dominance/proving your manliness thing. That doesn't mean that fighting game players are rotten per se, it's just that their type of game attracts more of the rotten apples.

[The Xenos]

Even ignoring the gender politics, that's just encouraging bad sportsmanship. It's one thing to be vulgar with friends and make sexual comments with them even with other guys. That this is guys doing it to women they don't know? That's just disgusting. Now this is far from something exclusive to fighting gaming and gaming in general. Yet as a nerd / niche culture that's coming into the mainstream, it's pretty sad that it maintains such a juvenile and misogynist attitude.