Oh, Frank Miller...

[ZimMan2]

...that kooky, nutty Frank Miller (http://frankmillerink.com/2011/11/anarchy)


The “Occupy” movement, whether displaying itself on Wall Street or in the streets of Oakland (which has, with unspeakable cowardice, embraced it) is anything but an exercise of our blessed First Amendment. “Occupy” is nothing but a pack of louts, thieves, and rapists, an unruly mob, fed by Woodstock-era nostalgia and putrid false righteousness. These clowns can do nothing but harm America.

“Occupy” is nothing short of a clumsy, poorly-expressed attempt at anarchy, to the extent that the “movement” – HAH! Some “movement”, except if the word “bowel” is attached - is anything more than an ugly fashion statement by a bunch of iPhone, iPad wielding spoiled brats who should stop getting in the way of working people and find jobs for themselves.

This is no popular uprising. This is garbage. And goodness knows they’re spewing their garbage – both politically and physically – every which way they can find.

Wake up, pond scum. America is at war against a ruthless enemy.

Maybe, between bouts of self-pity and all the other tasty tidbits of narcissism you’ve been served up in your sheltered, comfy little worlds, you’ve heard terms like al-Qaeda and Islamicism.

And this enemy of mine — not of yours, apparently - must be getting a dark chuckle, if not an outright horselaugh - out of your vain, childish, self-destructive spectacle.

Is it wrong that I found this somewhat hilarious?

[Morrison_Lad]

It's been a good, long time since anything Frank says was capable of shocking me.

[dmh3000]

Think this was already said in another topic. Oh well.

For me, I haven't really cared much for Frank Miller since the eighties. I think he peaked too early.

[Teal_Lantern]

This is making me loaft on picking up his DD.

[stevapalooza]

he's kind of a caricature of himself at this point.

[AndrewCrossett]

Still a goose-stepping scumbag, as always.

People like him have hurt America far more than al-Qaeda could ever dream of.

[Patrick Gerard]

I replied to that thread but it got deleted.

[Morrison_Lad]

he's kind of a caricature of himself at this point.

At this point?!

He's been making a caricature of himself for a long time now.

[ZimMan2]

At this point?!

He's been making a caricature of himself for a long time now.

I'd say the "kind of" is more inaccurate. He is a blatant parody of himself now.

I have to wonder if he realizes it or not, because if he does, and he's just running with it, then he is a brilliant IRL troll on the level of Michael Bay.

If he isn't however... actually, he's still funny.

[AndrewCrossett]

People like Miller never seem to get that protests like this are a failure unless they piss off people like him.

The more he foams at the mouth and shoots steam out his ears, the more worthwhile it all is.

[Jim Ritchey]

I replied to that thread but it got deleted.

Me too. I went the fuck off. We should both post what we wrote.

[Patrick Gerard]

Reposted from my comments there:

They may be often off message, hipster-heavy, and easily distracted, Frank.

But the core of the anger is rooted in the idea that economic terrorists on Wall Street have sold this country out with impunity. There are wealthy folks who decided their allegiance was to themselves and they sold America and all of western civilization up the river to line their pockets.

This shouldn't be left versus right. I can see where even the class message or income disparity model is not perfect because not every rich person was involved.

But the difference between a Lehman Brothers or Wells Fargo and an Al Qaeda as I see it is that Al Qaeda didn't have the guts or vision to get the job done whereas the bankers and investors are proving that they do and will.

[Morrison_Lad]

I'd say the "kind of" is more inaccurate. He is a blatant parody of himself now.

I have to wonder if he realizes it or not, because if he does, and he's just running with it, then he is a brilliant IRL troll on the level of Michael Bay.

If he isn't however... actually, he's still funny.

Good points.

[dmh3000]

Me too. I went the fuck off. We should both post what we wrote.
Maybe not, that could have been what got the thread deleted in the first place.

[Hugin]

I replied to that thread but it got deleted.Seriously? Why the hell was it not just locked? I understand some threads become a vile pit, but they still happened and shouldn't be erased.

[Jim Ritchey]

Maybe not, that could have been what got the thread deleted in the first place. I think he meant his individual post on the 'disqus' comments section--turns out mine wasn't deleted, though. It went like this:

*

on ANARCHY | Frank Miller Ink 23 hours ago

What makes me sad for you, Mr. Miller (besides all the hateful rhetoric--which I should be desensitized from being affected by by now), is what a great writer comics lost. You went from the guy who brought me 'Give Me Liberty'--a brilliant satire of corporate America about a strong, exceptional black woman pulling herself up from poverty to become someone who affects change, to just another sociopathic, pathetic 'I got mine' Neocon--a hate-filled bigot cowering behind his door. It's like your IQ dropped 30 points. Your art is dreadfully disappointing now--a literal mess, and all you can write about is your pathological obsession with Al Qaeda--a tiny percentage of the m--f--ing Muslim population, like a terrified little girl. Ironically--the 'Occupy' folks--like ME--are the very type who were your most ardent fans 2 decades ago, and you're insulting the type of people who liked you when (you) didn't suck. VERY telling. Interesting that Mike Baron is your little cheerleader on this blog comment section--another vicious little man who used to not be horrible, and who makes me wonder what he's been prescribed. You were both major influences on me, and it makes me sick. If I didn't know myself better, I'd be horrified at the thought of some switch in my head turning to 'crazy dumbass bigot' setting, out of the blue. You're both so insular and ignorant about who's involved in the movement, it almost seems like a deliberate bad joke.

[Impulse]

Wait, what did Mike Baron say on this, Jim? Just repeating Miller's comments or something else?

[The Mandarin]

How old is Miller, anyway? He sounds like a cranky old fart shaking his cane at youngins. I half expected him to top off the rant with an "why in MY day...." speech.

[Corrina]

Maybe not, that could have been what got the thread deleted in the first place.

Shel and I didn't delete the thread, neither did Gail.

Which means Bendis did.

So whatever you did before, DON'T DO IT AGAIN.

[AndrewCrossett]

I thought they were referring to their posts getting deleted in the comments thread at Miller's blog, not here.

Which would certainly be in keeping with his stated attitudes toward dissent and protest. I'm sure he's disappointed he can't teargas or baton people over the Internet.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

he's kind of a caricature of himself at this point.

"Kind of?"

[AndrewCrossett]

On a related note, this is awesome. (http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/15/us/new-york-occupy-eviction/index.html?hpt=hp_c1)

Ha!

[Corrina]

I thought they were referring to their posts getting deleted in the comments thread at Miller's blog, not here.

Which would certainly be in keeping with his stated attitudes toward dissent and protest. I'm sure he's disappointed he can't teargas or baton people over the Internet.

Oh, I misunderstood.

Carry on then.

Though, personally, Bendis worries me. :)

[Thequeerjock]

How old is Miller, anyway? He sounds like a cranky old fart shaking his cane at youngins. I half expected him to top off the rant with an "why in MY day...." speech.

He's gotta be at least late 50's, early 60's at this point.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

He's 54.

[AndrewCrossett]

Old enough to want those damn kids off his lawn.

[Artful Angie]

I liked his rantings better when he used his other pen name, Rush Limbaugh.

[The Xenos]

Old enough to want those damn kids off his lawn.

Oh shit! Old man Miller's gone off hia meds again! Don't walk by his house or he might yell at you.


Now I am disapointed with the Occupy movement and thino it is becoming a sectacular failire instead of solving ajything or even higlighting the problems well. Yet Miller seems almost incohetant in his ramblings. What Ilasmic fundamentalists have exactly todo with this.. I am not sure. I do admit are a real threat, unlike some, of these naive protestors, and they factor into the big picture. Yet they are no way directly related.

Now there are sexual assaults and drugs and crimes happening in these camps. I think it is a mix of bad apples in the camps as well as outsiders coming in. I think it spawns from naivite on these protestors. I saw one come into a local store for books on feminism to add to their library. Thinking books are the solution to stopping people from committing sexual assaults? Dear goodness. Why are protestors this dumb? Ones like that.. too many it seems.. are just as blind and dumb to reality as Miller as they get so sweapt up in their ramblings.

[dmh3000]

How old is Miller, anyway? He sounds like a cranky old fart shaking his cane at youngins. I half expected him to top off the rant with an "why in MY day...." speech.

According to Wikipedia, he's 54.

[CutterMike]

He's 54.

Holy poot!

He's younger than me and *I* think he sounds like a crazy old man!

[Morrison_Lad]

Holy poot!

He's younger than me and *I* think he sounds like a crazy old man!

Maybe you aren't quite the drunk that he is?

Seriously, though, 9/11 pushed him over the brink. He was teetering before that. But once it happened, it just became pure hate.

I live in the Muslim capital of the Western Hemisphere, and believe me, there's a lot of that.

[Neil C.]

The same thing happened with Dennis Miller and a guy in my building who became a Rush Limbaugh quote machine.


Maybe you aren't quite the drunk that he is?

Seriously, though, 9/11 pushed him over the brink. He was teetering before that. But once it happened, it just became pure hate.

I live in the Muslim capital of the Western Hemisphere, and believe me, there's a lot of that.

[Morrison_Lad]

The same thing happened with Dennis Miller and a guy in my building who became a Rush Limbaugh quote machine.

Yep.

Hatred of a group is easy, and so it's the simple way to react to a horrible event. "9/11 happened?! Muslims are EVIL!" It's an intellectually simplistic reaction.

[AndrewCrossett]

9/11 certainly did bring out the cowards among us.

[Morrison_Lad]

9/11 certainly did bring out the cowards among us.

I couldn't have said it any better.

[CutterMike]

Maybe you aren't quite the drunk that he is?

Seriously, though, 9/11 pushed him over the brink. He was teetering before that. But once it happened, it just became pure hate.

I live in the Muslim capital of the Western Hemisphere, and believe me, there's a lot of that.

My best friend -- Brooklyn Jewish -- had relatives that were Holocaust survivors and I met some of his relatives back when we were in college.

...and me, a blue-eyed, blonde type...

These were people who had lived through YEARS of existence (created and run by people who looked a lot like me) that was designed to degrade, dehumanize and kill them as efficiently as possible -- not an (admittedly horrible) one-off event. And for the most part, their attitude was "Yes, those were twisted, hateful guys that had me -- but nothing said that *I* had to turn into one of those guys."

[Morrison_Lad]

My best friend -- Brooklyn Jewish -- had relatives that were Holocaust survivors and I met some of his relatives back when we were in college.

...and me, a blue-eyed, blonde type...

These were people who had lived through YEARS of existence (created and run by people who looked a lot like me) that was designed to degrade, dehumanize and kill them as efficiently as possible -- not an (admittedly horrible) one-off event. And for the most part, their attitude was "Yes, those were twisted, hateful guys that had me -- but nothing said that *I* had to turn into one of those guys."

You know, I have seen more racism and hatred since 9/11 then I ever saw before it. We could talk all day about stuff, but what's the point? It's all been discussed.

I'm "white" I guess (half-Arab/half-Slav), and people probably think that I hate them just because of who I look like. I grew up in Detroit, when I was the only white kid not eh block. *I* was the minority. Eventually I ended, years later, moving to a place where even though almost everyone's white, I'm literally a block away from Detroit. Where most of my relatives -- Christian Arabs -- live is Dearborn, where there are more Muslims than anywhere else in the country. This is a very strange place, honestly.

I absolutely despise what has happened since 9/11. I KNEW it was going to happen, when my friend called me up and told me to turn on the tv. I said to him, "Something bad happens to someone somewhere, every day." And I could just see the entire country becoming Islama-phobic overnight. And that's exactly what happened. We didn't attempt to embrace the reasonable factions of Islam (the "99%"). We decided it was better to do things the way we did them, with Gitmo, with Afghanistan, etc.

Now, we have a President that some percentage (I forget what it is) think is not only foreign, but a Muslim. He's black, so he must be a bogey man. And Muslims are the boogeymen now.

I remember a friend of mine, years and years ago, used to wear this Bobby Sands t-shirt. Back then, the IRA was the story of the day. ...

Oh hell, I had a point here, but I've totally forgotten what it was. I'm sorry.

[Stressfactor]

A few years back NPR resurrected the old "This, I Believe" series and one of the people featured was Frank Miller. I remember listening to it at the time and thinking that Miller, despite his supposed age and experience, was looking at thing too simplistically and cynically.

After this I see that it was kind of just the first slip down a long slope.

BTW, here's his "This I Believe" entry..... http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5784518

Bless, nothing ever really disappears off the internet.

[Lunar Archivist]

I'm sure he's disappointed he can't teargas or baton people over the Internet.

But he could find who you are and write a comic about Batman beating the crap out of you. ;-)

[Tobias M]

And of course I had to add my two cents on Blue Jumper -

http://podcasts.comicbooked.com/bj05/

[Karen El]

almost incohetant

Unintentional irony FTW.


Now there are sexual assaults and drugs and crimes happening in these camps. I think it is a mix of bad apples in the camps as well as outsiders coming in. I think it spawns from naivite on these protestors. I saw one come into a local store for books on feminism to add to their library. Thinking books are the solution to stopping people from committing sexual assaults? Dear goodness. Why are protestors this dumb? Ones like that.. too many it seems.. are just as blind and dumb to reality as Miller as they get so sweapt up in their ramblings.

Yes, it is so dumb to believe that knowledge might help solve any problem.

[Jim Ritchey]

Wait, what did Mike Baron say on this, Jim? Just repeating Miller's comments or something else? He was among the first of the posters in the comments section--in 100% agreement with Frank, and insulting even polite critics like some toady. I knew he'd taken a hard swing to the right, too--but it had never really sunk in. These were once heroes of mine.

[Jim Ritchey]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/11/16/richard-pace-responds-to-frank-miller/

[ZimMan2]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/11/16/richard-pace-responds-to-frank-miller/

Holy shit, I completely forgot about that scene from Year One.

That makes that blog even funnier.

[Infra-Man]

If I wanted intelligent commentary and deep insight into culture and politics, one of the last people I'd go to is Frank fucking Miller.

He should just start writing for World Net Daily and make guest appearances on Victoria Jackson's derpy View-like webshow.

[stevapalooza]

This could also just be plain old entertainment for Frank Miller. Riling up people he disagrees with and watching the shit storm. Just a high profile troll run.

[Linkara]

You know, I'm a conservative who gave up on politics looong ago. There isn't a lot I've heard about the Occupy Wall Street movement that has actually endeared me to them or their cause...

...but that blog entry is just friggin' STUPID. And this is stupid even for Frank Miller's standards of stupid. To the above saying he sounds like a crazy old man is because he IS a crazy old man. I know 56 isn't really that old, but let's face it, the years have not been kind on Frankie's brain. He keeps producing reprehensible garbage and yet to some is still considered by some to be some kind of comic book god. A while ago, in my review of Dark Knight Strikes Again Part 3, I actually did check out Frank Miller's blog and was shocked to learn that he had actually had a few insightful things to say about comics and the industry, buuuut apparently it just took a little bit of time for his writing to catch up with the rest of his decayed intellect.

Frank, take a step back and actually look at what you wrote and what you have written. And if you still don't get why this stuff is moronic, then you need to whack yourself in the face with a clue stick.

[dmh3000]

You know, I'm a conservative who gave up on politics looong ago. There isn't a lot I've heard about the Occupy Wall Street movement that has actually endeared me to them or their cause...

...but that blog entry is just friggin' STUPID. And this is stupid even for Frank Miller's standards of stupid. To the above saying he sounds like a crazy old man is because he IS a crazy old man. I know 56 isn't really that old, but let's face it, the years have not been kind on Frankie's brain. He keeps producing reprehensible garbage and yet to some is still considered by some to be some kind of comic book god. A while ago, in my review of Dark Knight Strikes Again Part 3, I actually did check out Frank Miller's blog and was shocked to learn that he had actually had a few insightful things to say about comics and the industry, buuuut apparently it just took a little bit of time for his writing to catch up with the rest of his decayed intellect.

Frank, take a step back and actually look at what you wrote and what you have written. And if you still don't get why this stuff is moronic, then you need to whack yourself in the face with a clue stick.
He's always had some good insight but also some weird beliefs, at least for me. In the back of the second Miller/Janson Daredevil Omnibus, there's an interview the two did back in 1981. It has an interesting section where he talks about Neal Adams' influence on art and how it actually hurt comics in some cases with artists who would be better suited as cartoonists either have to draw outside their comfort zone or be unemployed. The they get into a conversation about super powered people and Miller explains that he thinks everyone with powers is just an arrogant bully and only people like Batman and Daredevil are true heroes. This coming from the guy who ended his Daredevil run by having Matt Murdock destroy his girlfriend's career and making her completely dependent on him, so he could have a submissive housewife.

[Arion]

I still don't understand why he's so angry at OWS ... it's like he HATES everything about it!

[TonyDiGerolamo]

Yeah, it was nuts. This was my reply about it.
http://www.thewebcomicfactory.com/2011/11/14/the-antiwar-comic-in-response-to-frank-miller/

[Thequeerjock]

He's always had some good insight but also some weird beliefs, at least for me. In the back of the second Miller/Janson Daredevil Omnibus, there's an interview the two did back in 1981. It has an interesting section where he talks about Neal Adams' influence on art and how it actually hurt comics in some cases with artists who would be better suited as cartoonists either have to draw outside their comfort zone or be unemployed. The they get into a conversation about super powered people and Miller explains that he thinks everyone with powers is just an arrogant bully and only people like Batman and Daredevil are true heroes. This coming from the guy who ended his Daredevil run by having Matt Murdock destroy his girlfriend's career and making her completely dependent on him, so he could have a submissive housewife.

Really? I thought he was quite fond of Superman. Even though me made him into a complete tool in ASBAR, I'm sure I've heard him say positive things about the character.

[Jim Ritchey]

Yeah, it was nuts. This was my reply about it.
http://www.thewebcomicfactory.com/2011/11/14/the-antiwar-comic-in-response-to-frank-miller/

I like it. Nothing that a lot of us aren't thinking.

[dmh3000]

Really? I thought he was quite fond of Superman. Even though me made him into a complete tool in ASBAR, I'm sure I've heard him say positive things about the character.

No, you're thinking of Garth Ennis.

[Tetsuo_man]

No, you're thinking of Garth Ennis.

I don't know it seems like most writers who don't like superheroes with powers still like Superman. There is this quote by Miller about Superman that I quite like that almost would seem that he at least somewhat likes the character to paraphrase (can't remember the exact quote): I don't want to see Superman's sweat I want to see him fly. Also I kinda agree on the whole Neal Adams thing. It does seem that some artists were kinda forced into drawing in a faux Adams style for a while during the 70's up to the early 80's lest they not get work who were much better in their own styles. For instance bill sienkiewicz comes to mind for instance (though I will admit I still do like his early Adams inspired work on Moonknight). Seems like alot of artists had their hands tied by the perception that they needed to ape Adams's style. Anyway don't mind me just continue the discussion.

[Arion]

No, you're thinking of Garth Ennis.

Garth Ennis is a fan of Superman?

[dmh3000]

I don't know it seems like most writers who don't like superheroes with powers still like Superman. There is this quote by Miller about Superman that I quite like that almost would seem that he at least somewhat likes the character to paraphrase (can't remember the exact quote): I don't want to see Superman's sweat I want to see him fly. Also I kinda agree on the whole Neal Adams thing. It does seem that some artists were kinda forced into drawing in a faux Adams style for a while during the 70's up to the early 80's lest they not get work who were much better in their own styles. For instance bill sienkiewicz comes to mind for instance (though I will admit I still do like his early Adams inspired work on Moonknight). Seems like alot of artists had their hands tied by the perception that they needed to ape Adams's style. Anyway don't mind me just continue the discussion.

Oh yeah, I totally agree with what he said about Adams, that's why I called it an interesting section. However Miller has always hated Super-Man.

[KirbyKrackle]

Garth Ennis may hate superheroes, but he really likes superman and has done good thing with him in hitman and Jla/Hitman.

[Laevatein]

Dork Tower gives us Frank Miller madlibs! (http://www.dorktower.com/2011/11/21/)

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Garth Ennis is a fan of Superman?

I doubt he could tell you, say, who Bibbo is, or gets a warm glow of nostalgia from Turtle Boy-Jimmy, or anything like that... but yes, he has mentioned in the past that Superman and Spider-Man are the only traditional superguys that have anything to offer him.

[Shisho]

I didn't know "Islamicism" was a word.

Also, I used to joke that Rorschach from Watchmen talks like every bit of Frank Miller dialog I've ever read. Now he just sounds like Frank Miller. Not funny anymore. Just sad.

[The Xenos]

The same thing happened with Dennis Miller and a guy in my building who became a Rush Limbaugh quote machine.
A guy at my shop back home went from being a lifelong Democrat and Howard Stern fan to a Glenn Beck devotee thanks to 9/11 and the fear mongering war on terror. Actually.. somehow he still listens to Stern.


Now there are sexual assaults and drugs and crimes happening in these camps. I think it is a mix of bad apples in the camps as well as outsiders coming in. I think it spawns from naivite on these protestors. I saw one come into a local store for books on feminism to add to their library. Thinking books are the solution to stopping people from committing sexual assaults? Dear goodness. Why are protestors this dumb? Ones like that.. too many it seems.. are just as blind and dumb to reality as Miller as they get so sweapt up in their ramblings.

Yes, it is so dumb to believe that knowledge might help solve any problem. While I don't take Miller's side on the war on terror or the side of the cops completely raiding the occupy camps, I also find it rather naive of how the Occupy folks are assuming all the people in their movement or even people just entering these public camps have the best of intentions. They need some kind of police and vigilance in such a public area. They need to police themselves better and just putting books in a communal area is not going to stop these assholes. Actually... suddenly I'm reminded of the dicks, pussies, and assholes speech from Team America: World Police. Though it seems the dick cops are going after the pussy protestors and roughing them up instead of going after just the asshole criminals who are invading and lurking in these camps making them a dangerous place. Though I hear some camps have better self policing than others and even some medics. Hell, I even heard about and incident where a medic was one of those anonymous guys in V for Vendetta masks.

[stevapalooza]

I'm annoyed by their determination not to have leaders or spokesmen. Enough with the utopian anarchy shit. Like it or not, every movement needs a face. It needs a person (or sometimes several people) to embody it and sell it to the masses. You can't just count on the gods of justice to magically put you over because you're in the right. Also you need a specific real world agenda. General noble sentiments like "greed is bad" and "poor people should be treated better" don't cut it for long. You can't fight "greed" any more than you can fight "terror". It's time to get specific, make a plan and get some leadership! Where is the MLK or even Malcolm X of this movement to rebut people like Frank Miller? People don't like faceless crowds.

[Arion]

I doubt he could tell you, say, who Bibbo is, or gets a warm glow of nostalgia from Turtle Boy-Jimmy, or anything like that... but yes, he has mentioned in the past that Superman and Spider-Man are the only traditional superguys that have anything to offer him.

That's very interesting, I really didn't know that. It's just weird, because I don't picture him writing Superman.

[The Xenos]

I'm annoyed by their determination not to have leaders or spokesmen. Enough with the utopian anarchy shit. Like it or not, every movement needs a face. It needs a person (or sometimes several people) to embody it and sell it to the masses. You can't just count on the gods of justice to magically put you over because you're in the right. Also you need a specific real world agenda. General noble sentiments like "greed is bad" and "poor people should be treated better" don't cut it for long. You can't fight "greed" any more than you can fight "terror". It's time to get specific, make a plan and get some leadership! Where is the MLK or even Malcolm X of this movement to rebut people like Frank Miller? People don't like faceless crowds.

People don't like faceless crowds.
Sadly, that's what a bunch of these idiots think works. Not just the "lulz anonymous is legion" idiots, but the whole drum circle collective mass folks. At least the right wingers that sense of individualism to form leaders, even if the Tea Party has been co-opted by big business and special interests. This is just like some kinda creepy cult. Then again I wouldn't be surprised if some leftist factions and big wigs don't co-op these loons just like what happened with the Tea Party. Lord knows these idiots are even less organized and have even less of identity, both of themselves and as a group.

[AndrewCrossett]

What many of the protestors don't seem to realize is that these protests were supposed to be a way to get attention and publicity, so that they could then work to further their political agenda.

However, they seem to think they're going to accomplish something by sitting in a park, chanting and holding signs, forever.

The Tea Party started the same way, but then they went home and organized and got more than 60 of their supporters elected to Congress.

You're not going to change America with drum circles and hacky-sacks.

[Infra-Man]

I'm annoyed by their determination not to have leaders or spokesmen. Enough with the utopian anarchy shit. Like it or not, every movement needs a face. It needs a person (or sometimes several people) to embody it and sell it to the masses. You can't just count on the gods of justice to magically put you over because you're in the right. Also you need a specific real world agenda. General noble sentiments like "greed is bad" and "poor people should be treated better" don't cut it for long. You can't fight "greed" any more than you can fight "terror". It's time to get specific, make a plan and get some leadership! Where is the MLK or even Malcolm X of this movement to rebut people like Frank Miller? People don't like faceless crowds.

Agreed. The expression of a general dissatisfaction (no matter how legitimate) without a series of solid demands is not going to accomplish much in the long run. It changes the conversation for a bit, but if the movement is going to have lasting impact, it needs to request some specific things or mobilize toward a specific end. And to be quite frank, the leaderless utopian anarchy stuff is naive at best, and all the vandalization and nonsense turns people off to a cause they would otherwise be sympathetic toward (i.e., my parents and my extended family).

A recent article in The New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/28/111128fa_fact_schwartz) has a pretty good look at how the guys at Adbusters helped form the movement, or at least plant a seed for it. Occupy eventually got away from their influence, of course, and the diffused message and lack of leadership seems to be making the movement less effective since there's no focus or goal. Oddly, I think getting kicked out of Zuccotti may be the best thing to happen to the Occupy movement (especially with winter coming). Maybe the focus can be on how actual changes to the financial system can be achieved rather than how a space can be inhabited.

[Patrick Gerard]

Sadly, that's what a bunch of these idiots think works. Not just the "lulz anonymous is legion" idiots, but the whole drum circle collective mass folks. At least the right wingers that sense of individualism to form leaders, even if the Tea Party has been co-opted by big business and special interests. This is just like some kinda creepy cult. Then again I wouldn't be surprised if some leftist factions and big wigs don't co-op these loons just like what happened with the Tea Party. Lord knows these idiots are even less organized and have even less of identity, both of themselves and as a group.

I see people push the "balance" angle but, really, how do these leftists "special interests" like George Soros benefit from "winning"? I mean, maybe they get a cleaner environment or don't have to pay health insurance directly on their employees but they pay for it with taxes.

Now, I won't say the left is without its corruptions, hang-ups, or issues but a Soros is not comparable to a Koch because Soros is lobbying against his own short term (and long term) financial interests aside from the fact that rich people generally have a better quality of life when the poor are happy and can wind up executed by a mob if they push the poor far enough. But if anything, that should probably make rich people political moderates who want to pay just enough to keep the masses satiated or maybe even grateful but not a penny more. Soros and his ilk want the rich to pay far more than that and the Kochs want the rich to pay far less.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

That's very interesting, I really didn't know that. It's just weird, because I don't picture him writing Superman.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2010/06/supermanjlahitman2.jpg
-JLA/Hitman #2

Aside from the source of this panel, he wrote Superman 2 other times: one, a short in 1998's Superman 80-Page Giant where he plays the somewhat eye-rolling, 'oh dear'-uttering straight-man to the drunken lunacy of Hitman's Six-Pack. The other, an issue of Hitman (#34, "Of Thee I Sing"), a much more sober take on the character, where he-- unknowingly-- befriends the titular killer-for-hire over a talk about second-chances, failure & dealing with it, and how these relate to life in America. It won the Eisner for best single issue that year.

[Morrison_Lad]

Not counting the source of this panel, he wrote Superman 2 other times: one, a short in 1998's Superman 80-Page Giant where he plays the somewhat eye-rolling, 'oh dear'-uttering straight-man to the drunken lunacy of Hitman's Six-Pack. The other, an issue of Hitman (#34, "Of Thee I Sing"), a much more sober take on the character, where he-- unknowingly-- befriends the titular killer-for-hire over a talk about second-chances, failure & dealing with it, and how these relate to life in America. It won the Eisner for best single issue that year.

Thanks for the info. I will have to search those out sometime.

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Thanks for the info. I will have to search those out sometime.

Hitman back issues are rather tricky to find (the Superman issue in particular, as it's arguably the most famous story in the bunch); but they are reprinting the book in trade. Issue #34 will probably come after the upcoming trade in December (Book 5; Tommy's Heroes).

[Gail Simone]

Amazing some of the dumbass things people say about these movements. I've visited five of the Occupy sites now. I've spoken with the occupiers and the cops both. The right wing spin on them is bullshit, plain and simple, and the left wing version is only slightly truer, in my view. The cops I spoke with were pretty sympathetic and had NICE things to say about the occupiers, particularly in Seattle, where they regularly communicated with the tent community. It's clear that some cops and some protestors have abused their position. Do we judge ALL Of them by the actions of a few? It's ridiculous.