So DC doesn't feel Superman teaming up with a Muslim fits him meeting America

[The Xenos]

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/06/22/superman-712-muslim/


Ever since it was solicited three months ago, DC has been billing Superman #712 as a story where Superman goes to Los Angeles and meets the West Coast's newest super-hero, Sharif, a young man dealing with a public that might not want his help. If you go to your local comic shop and pick the issue up today, however, that's not the story you're going to get. Instead, the issue now contains a completely different story.

At first glance, this might not seem like a big deal, because after all, fill-ins happen all the time. But given that writer Chris Roberson has said that the entire issue has been completed, it seems like there might be a deeper reason that this story got the axe -- and it's hard to believe it doesn't have something to do with the fact that Sharif is a Muslim.

Reached for comment, a spokesperson for DC Comics gave the official reason for the switch as follows:


"This fill in issue contains a lost classic, Lost Boy: A Tale of Krypto the Superdog, set shortly after Superboy died in Infinite Crisis and Superman went missing.

DC Comics determined that the previously solicited story did not work within the 'Grounded' storyline. However, Chris Roberson, will be back for the final two issues of Superman's year long walk across America. As we near the conclusion, catch up with Superman next month as he makes stops in Portland and Newberg, OR."



Wow. That.. Wow. Even aside from the political quagmire of not wanting to publish a book with a Muslim character, this just show how wonky DC editorial still is right before the biggest move they've ever made. That just doesn't make me confident in spending my money on what they produce. What a horrible turn of events. Not that the whole Superman Grounded fiasco with JMS hasn't been a giant clusterfddd anyway.

[NickT]

BC says it's actually nothing to do with that, but a cat.

[dasNdanger]

I'm getting a sneakin' hunch that DC has been taken over by Skru...I mean, the Tea Party.



das

[DonC]

Well, let's see. You have an inventory story by fan-favorite Kurt Busiek that's about to become a victim of the reboot and you have a stand-alone tale of the less-than-well-received "Grounded" storyline. Which do you publish?

[Infra-Man]

BC says it's actually nothing to do with that, but a cat.

If that's the case, couldn't they have asked to change this well before the was supposed to hit the stands? And saving a kitten out of a tree is what did Supes in? Really? If the kitten was dead and mistaken for a little girl, would the issue have seen print? Man... they didn't even tell Perez (who did the variant) the issue wasn't running.

Who's the captain of the SS DC and why is he or she aiming the vessel at icebergs?

[RobStaeger]

That cat story is ridiculous. Sometimes people don't see the forest for the trees with kittens in them.

[KirbyKrackle]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. DC. come on. I go to the mat for you, try to tell people that everything's going to be okay and you do this. Are you trying to make this hard for me?

[t.c.johnson]

BC says it's actually nothing to do with that, but a cat.

Where did you see this? Not that I disbelieve you, just want to check out the details.

[JohnBehling]

Huh. This is upsetting. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but.... argh.

[RobStaeger]

It's here. (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/22/superman-712-not-changed-over-muslim-content-but-over-kitten-content/)

[NickT]

Where did you see this? Not that I disbelieve you, just want to check out the details.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/22/superman-712-not-changed-over-muslim-content-but-over-kitten-content/

I struggle to believe it, but it's possible.

[BClayMoore]

I would bet you anything that Dan would absolutely loathe a story that opened with Superman rescuing a kitten from a tree.

-BCM

[Infra-Man]

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/2000-01-12-superman-for-the-animals-L.jpg
UNACCEPTABLE


http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/arsenal4.jpg
GOOD, AND AWARD WINNING

Our planet is going cubed...

[t.c.johnson]

Nevermind, found it.

George Perez is pissed. Apparently he did the variant cover which was dedicated to a dead friend...and now that got pulled.

http://comics.cosmicbooknews.com/content/george-perez-extremely-upset-over-superman-712-change

[Patrick Gerard]

Well, let's see. You have an inventory story by fan-favorite Kurt Busiek that's about to become a victim of the reboot and you have a stand-alone tale of the less-than-well-received "Grounded" storyline. Which do you publish?

I dunno. If they'd had any sense, they would have had Roberson wrap up Grounded in two issues and then have him finish out the modern Superman run with an epic of his own devising. As-is, he's been writing a story far too entertaining for JMS' plot and I think he has the potential for a run on par with All-Star Superman if you don't chain him to the carcass of a meandering JMS-fueled zombie of a non-story.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

So this is either a really lame excuse for racism, or a ridiculous real reason to pull the comic. Either way, I am really perplexed with DC.

[Patrick Gerard]

I would bet you anything that Dan would absolutely loathe a story that opened with Superman rescuing a kitten from a tree.

-BCM

I think the desire to be badass and avoid ridicule is KILLING mainstream nerd culture. You should see the Star Trek threads where people flip out over early TNG featuring men in miniskirt versions of Star Trek uniforms.

I'm a red meat eating straight male and I think DC would be better if it was taken over by kitschy, trans-friendly glam rockers, because they don't have these weird hang-ups about being seen as soft or weird. Alas, Morrison is the only one that fits the bill even a little.

Is it weird that my confidence in the reboot would go up if Dan Didio went to a con in sequins, eye shadow, and a David Bowie wig proclaiming universal love?

[Patrick Gerard]

http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/2000-01-12-superman-for-the-animals-L.jpg
UNACCEPTABLE


http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/arsenal4.jpg
GOOD, AND AWARD WINNING

Our planet is going cubed...

Quoted for infinite truth.

[RobStaeger]

Man, a comic where Superman rescues a cat from Arsenal would rock.

[Charles RB]

So, DC could have done this for an idiotic reason OR done it for an idiotic reason.

This is a tough one.

[Patrick Gerard]

Reposted for posterity from my comment on Didio's wall:


I will say I could understand you nixing "Superman rescues a cat" because it's pedestrian, not because it's kitschy. Then again, I thought the whole point of "Grounded" was to be pedestrian. ;-)

[Patrick Gerard]

Also, regarding the two contrasting images in this thread, let's say that one of those two stories more closely resembles Matt Idelson's trips to the San Diego Comic-Con.

[Hybrid2]

It's here. (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/22/superman-712-not-changed-over-muslim-content-but-over-kitten-content/)

So DC editorials hate cats?
Or just think Superman is to good to save cats.What's next?
Superman is to good to stop muggers?save someone from a car crash?

[Benel Germosen]

I like the idea that a superhero shouldn't do...you know...superhero things.

[Infra-Man]

I always thought Superman saves kittens from trees every now and then because it serves as a contrast to the grand-scale feats he can accomplish and the major threats he thwarts, which punctuates the fact that Superman loves all the living creatures on planet Earth and tries to do good for everyone and everything.

But clearly that's everything that's wrong with Superman.

[shrike]

Well, as long as we have awesome things like rape in DC comics, I can understand fully that cats are not welcome in the DCU... unless they are dead and used as a weapon. But that's only because it, you know, makes sense.

[Patrick Gerard]

Well, as long as we have awesome things like rape in DC comics, I can understand fully that cats are not welcome in the DCU... unless they are dead and used as a weapon. But that's only because it, you know, makes sense.

I do find the digital initiative odd now that we're seeing the anti-cat stance at DC, overall anti-cute stance, pro-90s design sensibilities, and pro-rape-and-dismemberment-as-plot-points stance.

It's like they hate the internet. I'd be mortified to see these guys' Google histories. It's like they're the opposite of the internet mentality. They're the anti-net.

[The Xenos]

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Or rather the Muslim hero out with the kitty litter. Does DC have their head that far up their bum to see that they totally shat on the bigger issue in favor of their nitpicky nerd debate on if getting a kitten out of a tree was too corny? I hate to break it to you, but it's Superman. The guy's getting rebooted anyway. It doesn't freaking matter that he's getting a kitty out of a tree.


http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/2000-01-12-superman-for-the-animals-L.jpg
UNACCEPTABLE
http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo172/hvigilla/arsenal4.jpg
GOOD, AND AWARD WINNING
Our planet is going cubed...
HA! Nice one.


Nevermind, found it.

George Perez is pissed. Apparently he did the variant cover which was dedicated to a dead friend...and now that got pulled.

http://comics.cosmicbooknews.com/content/george-perez-extremely-upset-over-superman-712-change
Holy shit. And in another brilliant move.. they just screwed over George Perez with pulling that variant he dedicated to a friend that passed on.

Seriously, this is how a professional company is run? All because they thought getting a cat out of a tree is corny? Maybe, as other jokes said, the cat should have been dead and Supes shoulda shot up some heroin first. Holy crap what a bunch of bleak dim witted man children running the show.

It's like every other news story out of DC is just more evidence that I shouldn't bother with the relaunch.

[Patrick Gerard]

From Facebook:


Dan DiDio rarely comment on production problems but can't blame the kitty. I'm a cat lover myself.

[Patrick Gerard]

I like Dan and generally feel for him. If I was a total dick, I'd reply with, "Ah. So it's Muslims you hate. Gotcha." I just don't have the heart to as I suspect this whole issue boils down to Roberson and Idelson butting heads over things, probably stemming from Roberson improving JMS' plot by a millionfold when that isn't what he was hired for. *sigh*

[Slewo.O]

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/06/22/superman-712-muslim/

Wow. That.. Wow. Even aside from the political quagmire of not wanting to publish a book with a Muslim character, this just show how wonky DC editorial still is right before the biggest move they've ever made. That just doesn't make me confident in spending my money on what they produce. What a horrible turn of events. Not that the whole Superman Grounded fiasco with JMS hasn't been a giant clusterfddd anyway.

They did the exact same story with Power Girl not even a week ago. I'm not exactly crying about the loss of yet more Superman hits politics stories. But as far as I've heard it's not the Muslim character, but the issue is still coming apparently. Chris Roberson has done great Superman work but not in the kind of context I'm loving.

[Spiffy]

Is it possible DC backed off the story because Power Girl just used the exact same plot?

EDIT - Oh. Just saw the post right before this.

[Infra-Man]

Wasn't there a "Grounded" issue where Superman and The Flash had a race about a week or two after Superboy raced Kid Flash in his own book?

Whatever the reason for the issue switcheroo was, they could have handled this a lot better on multiple levels.

[Slewo.O]

Wasn't there a "Grounded" issue where Superman and The Flash had a race about a week or two after Superboy raced Kid Flash in his own book?

Whatever the reason for the issue switcheroo was, they could have handled this a lot better on multiple levels.

They watched the Superboy/ Kid Flash race in the very issue. I didn't think it really was much of a race though, since Flash was trying to get Supes' attention wasn't it?

[Infra-Man]

Ahh, okay, I was mistaken.

[Slewo.O]

So according to Kurt Busiek's twitter it's not because of the kitten thing. There is a mystery afoot! A racist one. :Sherlock:

[DarkKnightJared]

In fact, here's a good quote about it from Busiek from the CBR Superman board:


I mean, if you're dead set on believing that DC would think cat-rescuing is too corny, but it can't be changed, so swap in a story about a flying doggie instead, I'm certainly not going to stop you. I will point and laugh, though.

[Slewo.O]

In fact, here's a good quote about it from Busiek from the CBR Superman board:



Xenophobes!

[Hugin]

Yeah, this is terrible. If they objected to the cat at all, they would have had him change into stopping a car crash or something, and they would have done it months ago. Chris Sims is right, this is because the backup in Action got picked up by Fox news, and they don't want any more bad publicity going into the reboot.

But you know what? Fuck. That. Shit. You don't give in to racists.

[Slewo.O]

Yeah, this is terrible. If they objected to the cat at all, they would have had him change into stopping a car crash or something, and they would have done it months ago. Chris Sims is right, this is because the backup in Action got picked up by Fox news, and they don't want any more bad publicity going into the reboot.

But you know what? Fuck. That. Shit. You don't give in to racists.

Or maybe Chris Sims is wrong? They didn't have any qualms publishing the same damn story in Power Girl. I somehow doubt DC is being racist...

[Slewo.O]

Also I hope I'm not being off-putting. I'm just sick to death of all the conspiracy theories over everything coming out of DC these days. I'm not mourning the loss of that Superman issue either (though I'm loving Chris Roberson's writing), but it'd be nice just to see some optimism instead of antagonism and cynicism over a medium we all enjoy.

[Hugin]

Or maybe Chris Sims is wrong? They didn't have any qualms publishing the same damn story in Power Girl. I somehow doubt DC is being racist...Power Girl isn't Superman. Hell, she isn't even getting a book come Sept. Her teaming up with a muslim doesn't catch nearly as much media attention as Superman would. And with Superman having just renounced his citizenship, to national media attention, DC being gun shy doesn't surprise me. It disappoints me, but I'm used to that from them at this point.

[Slewo.O]

So CBR published an article that includes some comments from Chris Roberson and an official decleration from DC. Also a little emphasis in the article added by me.




The now unpublished cover for "Superman" #712.
Last night, DC Comics sent out one of their regular "Direct Channel" e-mail newsletters to retailers, and in between announcements of ordering deadlines, issue sellouts and trade paperback reprints came much more unexpected news: that June 22's "Superman" #712 would ship with entirely new contents than had been previously solicited by the publisher.

Originally, the issue was set to be the latest chapter in "Grounded" – the Man of Steel story begun by J. Michael Straczynski and continued by Chris Roberson focusing on Superman's walk across America – with a special focusing on the establishment of a Muslim superhero called Sharif in Los Angeles. Instead, the comic will carry a story by Kurt Busiek and Rick Leonardi featuring Krypto the Superdog which was originally created then shelved during Busiek's run on the title circa 2007.

CBR News has learned new details about the story swap and how its changes were released to retailers as well as how they will affect the long term plans for "Grounded" – facts which speak to the publisher's overall plans for the series if not the specific queries as to what happened in the original draft of #712.

DC's e-mail announcement read:

Please note the new contents for SUPERMAN #712, now written by Kurt Busiek with art by Rick Leonardi, a cover by Carlos Pacheco and Jesus Merino and a variant cover by Stanley "Artgerm" Lau.
This fill in issue contains a lost classic, Lost Boy: A Tale of Krypto the

Superdog, set shortly after Superboy died in Infinite Crisis and Superman went missing.

DC Comics determined that the previously solicited story did not work within the "Grounded" storyline. However, Chris Roberson, will be back for the final two issues of Superman's year long walk across America. As we near the conclusion, catch up with Superman next month as he makes stops in Portland and Newberg, OR. SUPERMAN #712 is scheduled to arrive in stores on June 22.

Because of this change, this issue will be made returnable at a later date.

Of course, since the originally solicited issue promised a story where "Sharif discovers that in today’s current cultural climate, some people don’t want his help – they just want him gone," it has led many online to speculate on what exactly the issue contained that might have made the story not work for the overall arc and whether fear over the Muslim superhero's portrayal could be a factor.

ComicsAlliance has the most thorough roundup of responses to the move, include a quote from Chris Roberson who DC promised would be back in July to wrap up the final issues of "Grounded." The writer told the site "As much as I look forward to seeing an unpublished Kurt Busiek Superman story, it's a shame that DC didn't determine that the story we prepared for Superman 712 didn't work in the Grounded storyline in time for us to do a different story. As it happened, the Sharif story was included in the outline for the remaining issues of Grounded that I submitted in November. The outline was approved, and in February the issue synopsis that I provided was used to draft the solicitation text, to work up character designs for Sharif (the grown up version of Sinbad from the early 90s), and for cover art to be pencilled, inked, and colored. The script for the issue was accepted in April, and was drawn, inked, and lettered. Unfortunately, when the issue was ready to be sent to the printer in the third week of May I was informed that the decision had been made not to print it."

The site also carries a quote from planned variant cover artist George Perez's Facebook page venting frustration over the last-minute change.

CBR News has learned that despite the swap out of content coming so late in the publishing schedule – a practice DC has taken criticism for in the past including during the "Blackest Night" event – the news was not discussed at last Friday's meeting between Co-Publisher's Dan Didio and Jim Lee at Warner Bros. Studios in Burbank. However, "Grounded" in general did come up during the open summit, and DC reportedly promised shop owners that the year-long story would finish as originally announced before the publisher's September relaunch of titles.

On the other side of the spectrum, Bleeding Cool is carrying a report that lays the changes at the feet of a kitten rescuing scene a la "Superman: The Movie" that did not jibe with the company's current conception of the hero.

Overall, the specific content issues behind the last-minute change may have nothing to do with either story beats or everything to do with both. While DC has recently published controversial storylines surrounding modern political ideas and characters including the Muslim Batman Nightrunner and Superman's renouncing of his U.S. citizenship in "Action Comics" #900, the publisher has rarely commented publicly on its editorial decisions beyond the public comments of freelancer creators. What is known is that Roberson will continue work on "Grounded" as well as several projects for Vertigo in the months ahead, leaving one key question on this issue whose answer has to come out sooner or later: how will the long-running "Grounded" storyline be affected?

Reached for comment, a DC representative told CBR that the publisher will make sure the storyline will wrap up fully by September with a tale that will take Superman to all the locations promised at the beginning of his journey over a year ago.

Stay tuned to CBR News for more on "Superman" and the future of the franchise heading across the summer.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=32927

Let's also try not to forget that Power Girl story.

[Slewo.O]

Power Girl isn't Superman. Hell, she isn't even getting a book come Sept. Her teaming up with a muslim doesn't catch nearly as much media attention as Superman would. And with Superman having just renounced his citizenship, to national media attention, DC being gun shy doesn't surprise me. It disappoints me, but I'm used to that from them at this point.

They published a similar story when introducing Nightrunner in those two Batman annuals. They caught flack for them, but that didn't stop em from continuing usage of the character. It's not like they're extremely shy of controversy. Maybe it was the redundancy of the story, maybe it was a last minute spook? I don't know.

I'm happy that they at least haven't shied away from creating decent multi-cultural characters in the past.

[BClayMoore]

I think mainly people just wish there was some controversial conspiracy theory to justify their salacious imaginations.

-BCM

[Hugin]

They published a similar story when introducing Nightrunner in those two Batman annuals. They caught flack for them, but that didn't stop em from continuing usage of the character. It's not like they're extremely shy of controversy. Maybe it was the redundancy of the story, maybe it was a last minute spook? I don't know.

I'm happy that they at least haven't shied away from creating decent multi-cultural characters in the past.If it was the redundant story, they would have changed Power Girl's book, not Superman's. And again, if it was the cat scene, they would have just had the artist rush up a replacement page. They dumped the entire book.

The Nightrunner controversy wasn't 2 months away from a massive reboot where DC is trying to draw in massive numbers of new readers. Negative publicity right now could kill them. Action #900 was less than a month before Superman #712 was supposed to be printed, and apparently it was a last-minute decision to replace #712. The kerfluffle from 900 scaring them wouldn't surprise me, and the timing is a bit suspicious. It's not certain, and I doubt we'll ever learn the truth, but that's the conclusion that seems most likely to me.

[The Hodag]

Whatever the real story ends up being, at this point the title of this thread is pretty trashy and needlessly inflammatory.

[The Hodag]

I think the desire to be badass and avoid ridicule is KILLING mainstream nerd culture. You should see the Star Trek threads where people flip out over early TNG featuring men in miniskirt versions of Star Trek uniforms.

I'm a red meat eating straight male and I think DC would be better if it was taken over by kitschy, trans-friendly glam rockers, because they don't have these weird hang-ups about being seen as soft or weird. Alas, Morrison is the only one that fits the bill even a little.

Is it weird that my confidence in the reboot would go up if Dan Didio went to a con in sequins, eye shadow, and a David Bowie wig proclaiming universal love?

I like this post.

[Hugin]

Whatever the real story ends up being, at this point the title of this thread is pretty trashy and needlessly inflammatory.So far it's one of 3 possible reasons for the switch and it was the reason that he believed when starting the thread. Doesn't seem out of line to leave it.

[The Hodag]

So far it's one of 3 possible reasons for the switch and it was the reason that he believed when starting the thread. Doesn't seem out of line to leave it.

What are we, police investigators? Fandom's got three working theories so, of course, those are the only three possible reasons?!

Ridiculous. Even if it turns out to be the case, it's just being inflammatory at this point.

[michealdark]

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/06/22/superman-712-muslim/



Wow. That.. Wow. Even aside from the political quagmire of not wanting to publish a book with a Muslim character, this just show how wonky DC editorial still is right before the biggest move they've ever made. That just doesn't make me confident in spending my money on what they produce. What a horrible turn of events. Not that the whole Superman Grounded fiasco with JMS hasn't been a giant clusterfddd anyway.

See what I find funny is Batman grants his approval to a Muslim hero, that's fine. Superman even MEETS a Muslim hero, stop the fucking presses! What, are they afraid that the Benbo's own Bosch Fawstin is going to go BACK to Colbert and make a fool of himself again?

[Hugin]

What are we, police investigators? Fandom's got three working theories so, of course, those are the only three possible reasons?!

Ridiculous. Even if it turns out to be the case, it's just being inflammatory at this point.With DC saying jack-all about it, what do we have to go on but fandom theories? They tried to slip this by under the radar, and this is what they get for it. If they'd come out with an honest reason why it was dropped, this thread wouldn't exist. Instead, they didn't even tell the creators involved.

And inflammatory how? If DC did kill a story in order to pander to wingnuts, they deserve the vitrol, and more.

[Slewo.O]

With DC saying jack-all about it, what do we have to go on but fandom theories? They tried to slip this by under the radar, and this is what they get for it. If they'd come out with an honest reason why it was dropped, this thread wouldn't exist. Instead, they didn't even tell the creators involved.

And inflammatory how? If DC did kill a story in order to pander to wingnuts, they deserve the vitrol, and more.

Did you see the article I posted?

[Slewo.O]

See what I find funny is Batman grants his approval to a Muslim hero, that's fine. Superman even MEETS a Muslim hero, stop the fucking presses! What, are they afraid that the Benbo's own Bosch Fawstin is going to go BACK to Colbert and make a fool of himself again?

Nope. People were losing their shit about it. People can be real jerks at times.

[Slewo.O]

So far it's one of 3 possible reasons for the switch and it was the reason that he believed when starting the thread. Doesn't seem out of line to leave it.

It was a possible reason yes, but that didn't mean the title had to be worded like that, or treated like fact for that matter.

[The Hodag]

With DC saying jack-all about it, what do we have to go on but fandom theories? They tried to slip this by under the radar, and this is what they get for it. If they'd come out with an honest reason why it was dropped, this thread wouldn't exist. Instead, they didn't even tell the creators involved.

It's worth inquiring about, maybe even putting some pressure on DC, but I think it behooves us to realize that the behind-the-scenes business is endlessly complicated and there are a hundred OTHER possible reasons for the story change than DC hates Muslims.

And it's possible we may never know the answer. John Byrne always groused that he got multiple explanations for why Marvel cancelled X-Men: The Hidden Years, a title Byrne says was solidly profitable. I always suspected that the reason had less to do with profit and more to do with the fact that Byrne's approach was heavily tied to Bronze Age tropes and didn't fit in with the progressive, experimental Bill Jemas days. It's also possible Byrne's a-hole personality just ticked Jemas and Quesada off. But we don't know, and enough bridges were burned - no pun intended - that I suspect Marvel will never feel they need to be forthcoming about the cancellation.


And inflammatory how?

The thread title accuses DC of xenophobia.


If DC did kill a story in order to pander to wingnuts, they deserve the vitrol, and more.

IF that's the reason, yes. IF! The thread title doesn't allow for other explanations, though. It refers to speculation about DC's xenophobia as if it were a fact.

[Slewo.O]

It's worth inquiring about, maybe even putting some pressure on DC, but I think it behooves us to realize that the behind-the-scenes business is endlessly complicated and there are a hundred OTHER possible reasons for the story change than DC hates Muslims.

And it's possible we may never know the answer. John Byrne always groused that he got multiple explanations for why Marvel cancelled X-Men: The Hidden Years, a title Byrne says was solidly profitable. I always suspected that the reason had less to do with profit and more to do with the fact that Byrne's approach was heavily tied to Bronze Age tropes and didn't fit in with the progressive, experimental Bill Jemas days. It's also possible Byrne's a-hole personality just ticked Jemas and Quesada off. But we don't know, and enough bridges were burned - no pun intended - that I suspect Marvel will never feel they need to be forthcoming about the cancellation.

The thread title accuses DC of xenophobia.

IF that's the reason, yes. IF! The thread title doesn't allow for other explanations, though. It refers to speculation about DC's xenophobia as if it were a fact.

Thank you for explaining it much better than I did. :)

[The Xenos]

Xenophobes!
Why is everyone always saying they're afraid of little old me?

Whatever the real story ends up being, at this point the title of this thread is pretty trashy and needlessly inflammatory.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw... You're no fun.
-puts down stack of old dirty newspapers and can of gasoline-

[Slewo.O]

Why is everyone always saying they're afraid of little old me?

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw... You're no fun.
-puts down stack of old dirty newspapers and can of gasoline-

????

I'm not afraid of you! I-I-I-I

*is paralyzed by fear*

[Flamebird]

I like the idea that a superhero shouldn't do...you know...superhero things.

Well, he did burn down a drug dealers house and leave a kid to go warn them, instead of being heroic and finding a way to stop them legally or heroically.
Now I wanna see a scene with a "jumper" knocked off a building from the wind as he flies past; ignoring things.

[Infra-Man]

Also I hope I'm not being off-putting. I'm just sick to death of all the conspiracy theories over everything coming out of DC these days. I'm not mourning the loss of that Superman issue either (though I'm loving Chris Roberson's writing), but it'd be nice just to see some optimism instead of antagonism and cynicism over a medium we all enjoy.

The optimism is comendable, but whatever the case may be, it looks like some of this was avoidable for the most part, especially if they knew that the issue was a no-go by the third week of May--could have let Perez know, could have changed the website solicit, and if similar stories were running they could have sorted that out when outlines and synopses were approved. It's all so inexplicable. Maybe it was a major color/printing botch, like what happened with the latest Northlanders TPB? But that wouldn't make sense given the explanation they gave Roberson.

Yet even though strange things are afoot at the swirly DC and I'm not certain of the all the choices they made recently, I still love comics as a whole. D & Q's gekiga books? Nice. Daytripper? Holy crap, yes. Jacques Tardi in translation? Brilliant. A complete color collection of Carl Barks' Duck comics coming soon? Awesome. Kamandi hardcover in the fall? Sweet. And that there Sixth Gun comic looks right up my alley, which I'm ready to give a look once I get my next paycheck.

[NickT]

So far it's one of 3 possible reasons for the switch and it was the reason that he believed when starting the thread. Doesn't seem out of line to leave it.
It's a manipulative title, and then quotes PART of an article which even goes on to say there is no reason to believe this based on DC's history.

[Aiguille]

I somehow doubt DC is being racist...

But, here's the thing, if it wasn't deliberate, what the end result smacks of is cultural insensitivity. How could they be so oblivious to the implications of shelving a story of a Muslim hero? It reminds me of the disappearance of The 99 (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/10/19/the-99-muslim-islamic-superhero-comic/) cartoon.

[RobStaeger]

You know, the implications of publishing a six-issue series of the Justice League teaming up with a team of Muslim heroes might be taken into account when the shelve one issue. Honestly, between the 99, the recent Power Girl story, and Nightrunner, the idea that DC is afraid to publish stories with Muslims in it is kind of ludicrous.

Now, it could be that they weren't happy with the presentation in that story, for whatever reason. For all we know, they had an issue with the story and decided the story itself was culturally insensitive in some way, and decided to pull it for that reason. We don't know.

But I find DC doesn't want to publish a book with a Muslim hero in it to be the least likely explanation, considering they've already done so several times, and recently.

[Endy52]

Whatever the reason, I enjoyed the Krypto fill-in much more than anything else the Grounded storyline has had to offer ...

[Slewo.O]

Whatever the reason, I enjoyed the Krypto fill-in much more than anything else the Grounded storyline has had to offer ...

A dog with a cape needs no explanation!

[Endy52]

A dog with a cape needs no explanation!

Damn straight!

[Shurato2099]

Dogs can't sew! Where did he get the cape?! Did Ma Kent make it for him? Does he use papers in the Fortress of Solitude? Is he hand outdoor dog? Does Supes have to take him for a flight before bed?

[Ray G.]

This is 68 more posts of conversation than Grounded has generated in recent months, so maybe DC just wanted it to get some attention. :)

[Thequeerjock]

You know, the implications of publishing a six-issue series of the Justice League teaming up with a team of Muslim heroes might be taken into account when the shelve one issue. Honestly, between the 99, the recent Power Girl story, and Nightrunner, the idea that DC is afraid to publish stories with Muslims in it is kind of ludicrous.

Not neccesarily. David Brothers pointed out that Superman in particular had recently been the subject of right wing contorversy over that stupid cititzenship story. DC worrying about Superman ending up in Fox's cross-hairs for the second time in only a few months doesn't seem too far-fetched.

[Patrick Gerard]

Not neccesarily. David Brothers pointed out that Superman in particular had recently been the subject of right wing contorversy over that stupid cititzenship story. DC worrying about Superman ending up in Fox's cross-hairs for the second time in only a few months doesn't seem too far-fetched.

My question is: has winding up in Fox's cross-hairs ever adversely impacted someone who wasn't a Fox employee or running in a Republican primary? Heck, the number of comic shops per capita is already a measure of how blue a district is.

[JohnBehling]

Heck, the number of comic shops per capita is already a measure of how blue a district is.

That's cool. No wonder I love NYC so much....

[JasonMercer]

Busiek has already said that he will make certain to point and laugh at anyone gullible enough to believe "DC felt Superman rescuing a kitten was too corny, and went with a superdog story instead". He has also offered to put them in contact with a guy in Nigeria who can make them a FORTUNE.

Seriously, people? It's the same month where they decided to tear down everything they'd built with Oracle, who is probably the most successful and well-written stab at diversity in all of DC comics. And you're shocked that right before this big ad campaign, and not long after the hissy-fit news agencies had over Superman giving up his citizenship, that they decided to drop a story featuring a young superpowered Muslim doing Superman-ish things, but with Islamic symbols on his chest instead of an "S"? This doesn't scream "brought to you by the people that shoved Barbara back in tights" to you?

Someone chickened out at the last minute and sacrificed integrity for a safer buck.

[michealdark]

It's here. (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/06/22/superman-712-not-changed-over-muslim-content-but-over-kitten-content/)


Nope. People were losing their shit about it. People can be real jerks at times.


You know, the implications of publishing a six-issue series of the Justice League teaming up with a team of Muslim heroes might be taken into account when the shelve one issue. Honestly, between the 99, the recent Power Girl story, and Nightrunner, the idea that DC is afraid to publish stories with Muslims in it is kind of ludicrous.

Now, it could be that they weren't happy with the presentation in that story, for whatever reason. For all we know, they had an issue with the story and decided the story itself was culturally insensitive in some way, and decided to pull it for that reason. We don't know.

But I find DC doesn't want to publish a book with a Muslim hero in it to be the least likely explanation, considering they've already done so several times, and recently.

Yeah, I realize that now, with a night to sleep on it. I still have trouble buying the cat story. It might not be islamophbia, but rather fear of wingnuts like TQJ suggested

[ShaunN]

I have a hard time seeing DC suddenly getting a case of Islamaphobia when they've already taken heat over a Muslim hero as part of Batman Inc, or the most recent issues of Powergirl, which feature a Muslim American hero who has been unjustly imprisoned by the government after he is ethnically profiled and blamed for a terrorist event.

The thing with the cat - I'm not sure if that is a joke, but it seems a weird reason to pull a story. Nonetheless, it makes more sense, I think, than DC suddenly losing its nerve.

[JasonMercer]

DC is not a single entity. It's a company where many people work. One where people often work at cross-purposes, and where good decisions from one person one day do not prevent bad decisions the next day.

One guy approved the crossover with the 99, which made sense based on what DC was doing at the time.

Another guy (or maybe the same person, having a bad day) looked at the fact that DC is about to spend a lot of money on advertising, remembered the big stink FOX made over Superman giving up his US citizenship, looked at the comic where a character did things like pull open his shirt to reveal a costume underneath, Superman-style, only with Islamic symbols instead of the "S" and said "I think we should put this one on the shelf for a bit."

Yes, that really does make much more sense than pulling a comic with a cat and putting in a comic with a dog. Especially if it's a last minute change. That really makes it sound like someone got cold feet at the last minute.

DC is moving around big money for this ad campaign and relaunch. It's not a "business as usual" time right now.

[michealdark]

I always welcome Muslim characters myself. The world needs more good, positive Muslim role models right now.

[Supreme Convoy]

I remember hearing about Busiek's Krypto story and was bummed to hear it was canceled. So I'm glad that this is finally coming out.

However, it is sad to hear that they pulled the original issue. I've been waiting to read Grounded as a hardcover. The more as this trucks a long, the more it seems like a publishing disaster.

[RobStaeger]

DC is moving around big money for this ad campaign and relaunch. It's not a "business as usual" time right now.

That, to me, is probably the most compelling argument. They're at the beginning of a major marketing push, and a couple days of Fox blowhards right now would come at pretty much the worst possible time.

[michealdark]

Maybe they can put the story in the trade

[ShaunN]

OK, well if DC really did chicken out because of its fear of what Fox News would say, then that gives me another reason to drop DC altogether once the reboot starts.

[JKCarrier]

They're at the beginning of a major marketing push, and a couple days of Fox blowhards right now would come at pretty much the worst possible time.

Or the best. You can't buy publicity like that. I remember reading something Bill Willingham said about his days working on the Dungeons & Dragons game. According to him, any time one of those trumped-up "D&D Causes Teen Suicide" stories would hit the news, sales of the game would skyrocket.

[RobStaeger]

I think at any other time, they'd welcome it, JK. And it would certainly boost sales on that issue, no doubt about it. But getting this relaunch off the ground requires message discipline, and Fox noise would be a serious distraction.

ShaunN, I don't think they pulled it because of fear of what Fox would say -- I think they'd welcome it, as they have in the past, and print more copies. If it was indeed pulled for the Muslim content (and that's just speculation), I think it's a matter of message timing.

One thing that I haven't seen speculated: What if they pulled it because of unintentional insulting or culturally insensitive content? Something they might have noticed late in the game, which would normally take a little time to fix...but they no longer have the luxury of time, because of the looming reboot. So they pull out an inventory story and get pilloried for it, but keep silent because to do otherwise would be to throw the writer or artist under the bus?

My point isn't that that happened -- there's no evidence that it has -- but that there's also no evidence that they pulled it simply to not rile Fox News, either. Nor is there evidence for Kittygate. We don't know if any of these are true, if all of these are true, or if none of these reasons are true. We don't know.

Regardless, I hope they print this story in the future, though with the reboot, it seems unlikely.

[Patrick Gerard]

That scene where Superman decks Muhammad is probably what did it. ;-)

I trust Roberson more than that, really. I've been in touch with him and while he hasn't said much, my inference is that it comes down to some differing editorial vision of what Superman is like.

Specifically, he's of the school that different versions of Superman are irrelevant and that there has been one basic Superman since 1938. That's my school of thought too, really, and it's the core idea behind Johns and Busiek's "dagwood sandwich" approach to continuity.

My strong suspicion is probably that the book flashed back to a 60s or 70s story and someone said, "Hey! That's not in continuity!" And Roberson said, "I thought per Johns and Busiek that pretty much everything was in continuity. That's what they were saying, like, four years ago."

My craziest dartboard prediction for what went wrong would be that Roberson had a flashback to Superman vs. Muhammad Ali. Maybe the artist drew Muhammad Ali's face -- although I think Roberson would be clever enough to realize they couldn't use that without permission. Somebody said, "We don't have permission for that!" or "It doesn't matter if we show his face or call him by name!" or "That story never happened!"

Jeph Loeb referenced it almost ten years ago in passing as a kind of moment where Superman started to identify Muhammad Ali as a close black, Muslim friend of his when he was accused of not having any contact outside of a white, urban crowd. (I don't think it was a "Some of my best friends are muslim" moment so much as it was a case of Superman defending that he's not insulated and that he and Muhammad Ali have a history of hanging out.) I think Roberson probably wouldn't directly refer to it the way Loeb and Johns did (because that did come across as "Some of my best friends are black and muslim") but my totally psychic hunch is that Superman was going to give Sharif Ali's boxing gloves or something.

I could see that happening again here and somebody flipping out, saying, "You CAN'T say Superman and Muhammad Ali are best buddies." Maybe it was a visual. Maybe it was a plot point. I almost can't imagine Roberson passing up the opportunity to revisit that story, given the things he's made nods to so far. And I think THAT would lead to the cancellation of an issue that was otherwise in the can.

[RobStaeger]

Wow -- now that's something I never even remotely considered. But it's a great theory!

[J.R. LeMar]

Jeph Loeb referenced it almost ten years ago in passing as a kind of moment where Superman started to identify Muhammad Ali as a close black, Muslim friend of his when he was accused of not having any contact outside of a white, urban crowd. (I don't think it was a "Some of my best friends are muslim" moment so much as it was a case of Superman defending that he's not insulated and that he and Muhammad Ali have a history of hanging out.)

When the new Black superhero tells Superman that he calles himself Muhammad X "after two of my heroes," Superman replies "Really? I know-" and the Muhammad X cuts him off before he could finish. But I also got the impression, when reading it, that Supes was trying to say "I know Muhammad Ali." Which would still be possible, within continuity, since I'm Superman has met lots of celebrities, although the exact story in Superman Vs. Muhammad Ali is no longer possible.

[Patrick Gerard]

When the new Black superhero tells Superman that he calles himself Muhammad X "after two of my heroes," Superman replies "Really? I know-" and the Muhammad X cuts him off before he could finish. But I also got the impression, when reading it, that Supes was trying to say "I know Muhammad Ali." Which would still be possible, within continuity, since I'm Superman has met lots of celebrities, although the exact story in Superman Vs. Muhammad Ali is no longer possible.

That's the line. Yeah, it caused some stir online, both among continuity nerds and people concerned with the race politics of the issue. I've frankly often wondered if Geoff Johns wasn't somehow inspired to write that because of an experience dealing with race politics and his then-wife... And Loeb, I think, was looking for new kinds of antagonists for Superman to fight and was probably enamored with the idea of referencing Tyroc and Muhammad Ali in one story; Loeb was always dying to use the Legion in Superman more and is an absolute NUT about the Muhammad Ali crossover. (Muhammad X was transparently an ancestor of Tyroc's.)

That comic is also EXACTLY the kind of thing Roberson has been referencing. I mean, he canonized the Super-Dictionary and has described his run as an extended tribute to and reintroduction of the Maggin-era Superman. Which would include the Ali story.

[Damo]

Just follow the money.

Normally DC would be happy with the free advertising. In the past they've tried out various things to show their tolerance and diversity, like the JLA meeting the 99, or an Asian Batgirl, or Kate Kane, or Oracle, and were sometimes rewarded with a little media buzz.

But right now they're spending a million bucks of their own cash, and they don't want anything that's "off message" for the picture their ads will be painting. Make sure the girl in the Batsuit is the classic model! No, don't worry about offending anyone aware of what that means, it's more important to paint a FOX-friendly picture. Hide the young hero that combines classic Superman imagery with Islam! Just shove him under a couch or something! Put a picture of an adorable dog in a cape on the mantlepiece instead! Someone put a black character in a Batman costume... no it doesn't matter whether or not we have any commitment to him. We clearly don't, we've shown that countless times by now, but we just have to let on for a short while!

Everyone be on your best behavior, we're taking a group photo! Big smiles everyone, and say "Buy Our Books, America!"

[RobStaeger]

You're welcome to dig into that big ol' bitterness pie, but I think I'll wait for the facts before having a slice.

[Hugin]

You're welcome to dig into that big ol' bitterness pie, but I think I'll wait for the facts before having a slice.There won't be any facts. If DC has released nothing so far, when the story is it's hottest, they won't release anything later when it's blown over. Fan speculation is all we have to go on, and obviously DC considers what we've come up with less damaging than the truth would be.

[RobStaeger]

Nah, the reason will come out. Maybe not immediately, but sooner or later it will. People love to talk.

And honestly, if fan speculation is all we have to go on, then we've got nothing to go on.

[Patrick Gerard]

If it is the Ali thing, I really think the smarter move would be to say something like, "There was a reference to a licensed comic that wound up in there via miscommunication" or even "We had an issue with the book's use of continuity" which is better than hating cats or Muslims.

[RobStaeger]

I dunno, Patrick -- hating cats scores a lot of points with me. ;)

[michealdark]

I think at any other time, they'd welcome it, JK. And it would certainly boost sales on that issue, no doubt about it. But getting this relaunch off the ground requires message discipline, and Fox noise would be a serious distraction.

This is what I'm thinking

[Hugin]

Well, it definitely wasn't cancelled because of a cat (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/07/13/superman-rescues-cat-kitten/). DC is really running out of alternate explanations at this point, especially since it was so obviously a last-minute change.

[BClayMoore]

Well, it definitely wasn't cancelled because of a cat (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/07/13/superman-rescues-cat-kitten/). DC is really running out of alternate explanations at this point, especially since it was so obviously a last-minute change.

Losing the cat scene was a mercy killing, in any event.

Gah.

-BCM

[Hybrid2]

Woah.
DC,realy?

[RobStaeger]

Meanwhile, Rich J is spinning the kitty appearance as a middle finger to the execs who supposedly cancelled it the issue before. He claims to have 3 different sources on the cat story. Still seems like he's spinning, though.

[KirbyKrackle]

I bet it was president diane nelson that cancelled the story. Paul Levitz did the same on some stories when he was president of dc.

[michealdark]

*headdesk*

[Infra-Man]

They should have killed Grounded once JMS decided his piece-of-shit story wasn't important enough to continue writing himself. I feel sorry for Roberson.

[XXXenophile]

This sums it up:

http://youtu.be/bETCusT5kNM

[Gail Simone]

Rich prints untrue stuff all the time, I'm sorry, but he does. I have zero knowledge why this issue had these problems, but neither sounds right to me.

[michealdark]

It really doesn't make sense to me that the JLA as a whole could be chummy with Muslim heroes but The Last Boy Scout can't

[Patrick Gerard]

They should have killed Grounded once JMS decided his piece-of-shit story wasn't important enough to continue writing himself. I feel sorry for Roberson.

I think they should have given Roberson carte blanche to do a modern day "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow...?" I get the impression he's trying to do that within JMS' template but it lost any attention it might have otherwise gotten by stuffing it into the footnotes of someone else's abandoned story.

[stealthwise]

Starting to wonder if Chris Roberson is a pen-name for Patrick Gerard... same amount of letters in both names, all four names start with consonants, same amount of syllables... :)

[brettc1]

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Or rather the Muslim hero out with the kitty litter. Does DC have their head that far up their bum to see that they totally shat on the bigger issue in favor of their nitpicky nerd debate on if getting a kitten out of a tree was too corny? I hate to break it to you, but it's Superman. The guy's getting rebooted anyway. It doesn't freaking matter that he's getting a kitty out of a tree.

And in another brilliant move.. they just screwed over George Perez with pulling that variant he dedicated to a friend that passed on.

Seriously, this is how a professional company is run? All because they thought getting a cat out of a tree is corny? Maybe, as other jokes said, the cat should have been dead and Supes shoulda shot up some heroin first. Holy crap what a bunch of bleak dim witted man children running the show.

It's like every other news story out of DC is just more evidence that I shouldn't bother with the relaunch.

Professional courtesy, indeed professionalism period, is the issue here.

Honestly, I just cannot see the logic of pulling as issue of a book that is about to be restarted over a cat in a tree? Does DC have so little faith in the re-whatever-the-hell-we-are-calling-it-this-week to boost sales that they feel they cant risk showing Supers saving a cat? That seems ludicrous, but I suppose I would rather choose to beleive that than the other explanation.

Still, you would expect that once a decision is made you have the good manners to inform George Perez at once.

I just cant fathom how some people don't get this. Is it really so hard to treat people who work for you and with you with decency and respect?

[Infra-Man]

I think they should have given Roberson carte blanche to do a modern day "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow...?" I get the impression he's trying to do that within JMS' template but it lost any attention it might have otherwise gotten by stuffing it into the footnotes of someone else's abandoned story.

That sort of sums up one of the oddest things about the relaunchumberingboot: the current DC status quo is ending to usher in a new era, and the old era is closing out with fill-ins, fodder, fuck-ups, and uncerimoniously rushed finales.

[Thequeerjock]

It really doesn't make sense to me that the JLA as a whole could be chummy with Muslim heroes but The Last Boy Scout can't

That was before Superman got strung-up on Fox News for supposedly thinking he was too good for America.

[Patrick Gerard]

Starting to wonder if Chris Roberson is a pen-name for Patrick Gerard... same amount of letters in both names, all four names start with consonants, same amount of syllables... :)

If that's true, I must be a rum-induced alternate persona. That man is a prolific drunken twitterer, to a point where, upon meeting James Robinson, Robinson recognized him as the "Rum Gimlet Guy" from Twitter. I don't know how I'd fly back and forth from Texas that much but maybe that explains his never-ending stream of booze and B-movies. Not so much his Wii infatuation or novels or family. :-D

[michealdark]

That was before Superman got strung-up on Fox News for supposedly thinking he was too good for America.

Oh yeah, that's right, that fucking story.

I hate Fox News. Not dislike, I LOATHE it.

[The Xenos]

Oh yeah, that's right, that fucking story.

I hate Fox News. Not dislike, I LOATHE it.Why do you hate freedom? Can't handle the only source of truth fighting against the lies of the lamesteam media? You don't like your news fair and balanced? You make Glen Beck cry. What do you mean there are a number of errors in their reporting? Rupert Murdock media scandal? What are.. Oh look! An eagle! -Chris Wallace kicks you in the nuts and runs away-

[Patrick Gerard]

You know what's funny to me?

Roberson's two big specialties are that he runs an academic press that specializes in comics annotations and the history of super-heroes and he writes alternative history novels.

Shouldn't they have tapped him for Flashpoint? Or the relaunch? Instead of "Grounded", I mean.

It just seems to me that you've got two big projects that utilize his background and instead you have him working from JMS' notes.

[michealdark]

Yeah, it is odd