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View Full Version : How was Batwoman Elegy?



Brandon191
06-17-2011, 08:26 PM
I saw the trade came out a few weeks ago. How was it?

artimoff
06-17-2011, 08:29 PM
Damn fine!

KSChris
06-17-2011, 08:29 PM
Very good, despite the character. Art was incredible, and the main selling point. Rucka is Rucka. Solid on this type of stuff. But I'm not a big fan of the actual character.

Roman Noodles
06-17-2011, 08:32 PM
Very good, art is phenomenal, I do like the character, and I love anything Rucka.

Brandon191
06-17-2011, 08:32 PM
Very good, despite the character. Art was incredible, and the main selling point. Rucka is Rucka. Solid on this type of stuff. But I'm not a big fan of the actual character.

I haven't read much of the character, but I love J.H. Wiliiams art.

McGill
06-17-2011, 08:45 PM
It was fucking fantastic. I couldn't put it down.

KirbyKrackle
06-17-2011, 08:50 PM
Great! Great character and story. Plus art that will make your eyes pop out of your head!

Bedlam66
06-17-2011, 09:03 PM
I enjoyed it a lot. really looking forward to the new series because of that entire run.

joeAR
06-17-2011, 09:31 PM
So great. Art and story were awesome.

Michael John Wheeler
06-17-2011, 09:44 PM
Excellent. Do yourself a favour and grab the deluxe edition. The art sings in that format.

THWIP!
06-17-2011, 10:00 PM
Very very good.

Brandon191
06-17-2011, 10:42 PM
Thanks everyone! Just bought it from Amazon.

Masculine Todd
06-17-2011, 10:48 PM
The character, beyond all transparent attempts at hipness (rebel army brat, punk, etc.), was a concentrated attempt to create and cultivate something beyond a mere heroic archetype. This is especially important for both a female heroine and a lesbian. In a veritable sea of husks, between Rucka's characterization and Williams III's panel experiments, that run made a pretty well-constructed character.

I mean, I'm sure at some point after JH's newest run, a JT Krul will take the title over and completely negate/neglect everything that made this run so great, but as it stands, she's a very important attempt to make a comic book character that behaves and feels like a human beyond another hero trope.

That Elegry hardcover is a must.

Roman Noodles
06-17-2011, 10:51 PM
The character, beyond all transparent attempts at hipness (rebel army brat, punk, etc.), was a concentrated attempt to create and cultivate something beyond a mere heroic archetype. This is especially important for both a female heroine and a lesbian. In a veritable sea of husks, between Rucka's characterization and Williams III's panel experiments, that run made a pretty well-constructed character.

I mean, I'm sure at some point after JH's newest run, a JT Krul will take the title over and completely negate/neglect everything that made this run so great, but as it stands, she's a very important attempt to make a comic book character that behaves and feels like a human beyond another hero trope.

That Elegry hardcover is a must.


Well said. Also. Take that JT Krul. :lol:

Brandon191
06-17-2011, 10:59 PM
The character, beyond all transparent attempts at hipness (rebel army brat, punk, etc.), was a concentrated attempt to create and cultivate something beyond a mere heroic archetype. This is especially important for both a female heroine and a lesbian. In a veritable sea of husks, between Rucka's characterization and Williams III's panel experiments, that run made a pretty well-constructed character.

I mean, I'm sure at some point after JH's newest run, a JT Krul will take the title over and completely negate/neglect everything that made this run so great, but as it stands, she's a very important attempt to make a comic book character that behaves and feels like a human beyond another hero trope.

That Elegry hardcover is a must.

I opted for the softcover. I flipped through it this week at Silver Snail and it looks absolutely gorgeous. I loved JH's work on Desolation Jones. The HC was $10 more. I also bought Sweet Tooth Vol. 3 and Beast Wars season 1.

Brandon191
06-17-2011, 11:00 PM
While I'm at it, how was Jeff Lemire's Essex County? I noticed it's only $20.

The Hodag
06-17-2011, 11:07 PM
The character, beyond all transparent attempts at hipness (rebel army brat, punk, etc.), was a concentrated attempt to create and cultivate something beyond a mere heroic archetype. This is especially important for both a female heroine and a lesbian. In a veritable sea of husks, between Rucka's characterization and Williams III's panel experiments, that run made a pretty well-constructed character.

I mean, I'm sure at some point after JH's newest run, a JT Krul will take the title over and completely negate/neglect everything that made this run so great, but as it stands, she's a very important attempt to make a comic book character that behaves and feels like a human beyond another hero trope.

That Elegry hardcover is a must.

Reading between the lines here, what I get is more "this is important" than "this is really good."

I might be mapping some of my own wavering feelings on Rucka's writing here, but turns of phrase like "concentrated attempt," "pretty well-constructed," and "important attempt" don't exactly sing with enthusiasm. :lol:

Personally, I've always found Rucka's suffering women characters rather boring, from Tara Chace to Renee Montoya to what I've read of Batwoman (I read only the first issue or two of Elegy). What I usually like about Rucka is his story structure stuff. He's a good plotter who can also sometimes pull off interesting individual scenes, but I regret to say his characters mostly leave me cold. Come to think of it, that includes his male characters as well - I'm just used to him spotlighting chicks.

Brandon191
06-17-2011, 11:11 PM
I thought Elegy was an OGN?

The Hodag
06-17-2011, 11:13 PM
I thought Elegy was an OGN?

It's a compilation of issues from Detective Comics when it was briefly Batwoman's book.

Garth
06-18-2011, 05:54 AM
While I'm at it, how was Jeff Lemire's Essex County? I noticed it's only $20.

Essex County is pretty great. I found the last story to be a bit too sentimental, but the earlier two are pretty fucking heartbreaking. And similarly, Lemire's Nobody is amazing as well.

Blake Sims
06-18-2011, 06:03 AM
Good stuff, plus the art is gorgeous.

KSChris
06-18-2011, 06:13 AM
While I'm at it, how was Jeff Lemire's Essex County? I noticed it's only $20.

My favorite book of the last 5 years. Legitimately.

Queen of the Ban Age
06-18-2011, 07:22 AM
I just finished reading Elegy last night. That was one of the most beautiful, best written things I've read in a long, long time.

Masculine Todd
06-18-2011, 07:36 AM
Reading between the lines here, what I get is more "this is important" than "this is really good."

I might be mapping some of my own wavering feelings on Rucka's writing here, but turns of phrase like "concentrated attempt," "pretty well-constructed," and "important attempt" don't exactly sing with enthusiasm. :lol:

Personally, I've always found Rucka's suffering women characters rather boring, from Tara Chace to Renee Montoya to what I've read of Batwoman (I read only the first issue or two of Elegy). What I usually like about Rucka is his story structure stuff. He's a good plotter who can also sometimes pull off interesting individual scenes, but I regret to say his characters mostly leave me cold. Come to think of it, that includes his male characters as well - I'm just used to him spotlighting chicks.

I kinda empathize with your criticisms of Rucka. He's always been lauded for his portrayal of female characters, insofar as he avoided falling into those trite, somewhat misogynistic, white/male-patterned women archetypes; but his method of doing this was to rob them of any character/distinct voice (which he does with male characters often. There's an overall blandness to some of his character work at times).

I think he did pretty well with Montoya, actually, but that aside, beyond those immediate, hip-pandering aesthetic choices, Kate was one of the most fully-realized characters introduced in a Big Two comic in some time. Like, despite being wound up in a crazy, superhero plot, this was a pretty intimate book and it felt, in many ways, like Bendis exploring Jessica Jones in Alias to some extent.

As for "whether it was entertaining" beyond what was attempted, I'd say "mildly." I agree, he's normally better with plotting than scripting/mapping out character moments, but Elegy was a reversal. Making Kate a strong lead/engaging, nuanced human-feeling character was great, but otherwise, the plot's like "kinda lame mystery and she's beating up boring goth Alice in Wonderland cosplay crime chicks." It's bogged down by having to fit in the current Bat-line and setting-up the status-quo.

This book would have benefited so much if Rucka was given carte blanche to make this a character study without connection to the DCU. Like, she's the product of the Book of Crime prophesy backstory, she was taken hostage and rendered powerless as a child, and the military school/self-training and transformation into a bat-garbed vigilante can still be there, but the book wouldn't be obligated to conform to the thematic trappings of the DCU. Batwoman as a Vertigo book would be interesting.

Masculine Todd
06-18-2011, 07:44 AM
While 52 was going and Batwoman was outted in the press, I remember cringing by all the comic writer panelists at WW: Chicago I listened to that summer. Some were more thoughtful than others, but you could tell that, in talking about how they'd use the character or integrate her into team books, it'd be all "and she could start a relationship with Grace and be team leader of the Outsiders and wouldn't those two as a strong, team-leading couple just be so progressive!" That's all there was to any of their descriptions. That's not progressive, that's exploitative and unknowingly homophobic.

One of the most enjoyable parts of this (and I know it's only 8-ish issues, but they're great and it feels very "complete") run is how Rucka doesn't exploit or objectify her sexuality. It's as prevalent as human sexuality - queer or hetero - is in these wacky superhero fables. Like, I'd love to see a more authentic voice bring this character to life, but Rucka, as best he could, did a pretty good job in not turning her into some fanboy novelty.

Masculine Todd
06-18-2011, 07:47 AM
Well said. Also. Take that JT Krul. :lol:

JT Krul is pretty bad.

CREATOR BASHIN!

I don't know what editor was like "this guy wrote scenarios for the Aspen Studio dudes to draw naked pixies pouting! Get him on Teen Titans!"

Roman Noodles
06-18-2011, 01:54 PM
I adored The Nobody.

Roman Noodles
06-18-2011, 01:56 PM
JT Krul is pretty bad.

CREATOR BASHIN!

I don't know what editor was like "this guy wrote scenarios for the Aspen Studio dudes to draw naked pixies pouting! Get him on Teen Titans!"

Yeah. Not really a fan of his style myself.



But he seems to be doing okay, so to each their own.

The Hodag
06-18-2011, 01:59 PM
Krul's been on my "avoid" list, but I read this week's Deadman/Graysons Flashpoint spin-off and it was surprisingly good. No crack pipes or dead cats anywhere.

wheels9696
06-18-2011, 03:38 PM
Besides the art, I didnt love it. If you didnt read any of the previous material (crime bible or 52) it was hard to follow in places.

Nelson
06-18-2011, 04:46 PM
It is superb. You will not regret reading it.

jason hissong
06-18-2011, 05:14 PM
While I'm at it, how was Jeff Lemire's Essex County? I noticed it's only $20.

Brilliant.

The Funketeer
06-18-2011, 05:32 PM
Brilliant. Even if you don't like the writing (and you'd be a fool not to) the art alone is worth the price. I think this is one we'll still be talking about in years to come.

Mark Mavro (kryptic6)
06-18-2011, 07:03 PM
Reading between the lines here, what I get is more "this is important" than "this is really good."

I might be mapping some of my own wavering feelings on Rucka's writing here, but turns of phrase like "concentrated attempt," "pretty well-constructed," and "important attempt" don't exactly sing with enthusiasm. :lol:

Personally, I've always found Rucka's suffering women characters rather boring, from Tara Chace to Renee Montoya to what I've read of Batwoman (I read only the first issue or two of Elegy). What I usually like about Rucka is his story structure stuff. He's a good plotter who can also sometimes pull off interesting individual scenes, but I regret to say his characters mostly leave me cold. Come to think of it, that includes his male characters as well - I'm just used to him spotlighting chicks.

I don't love everything Rucka does, but Batwoman is one that definitely hits. I've only ever LOVED his writing on GOTHAM CENTRAL, and I think he really nails this character, thanks in large part to JH. I give him major props here.

What was the reason for him leaving the character again?

Supreme Convoy
06-18-2011, 07:03 PM
It's a really great read. If only Rucka was able to stay on Batwoman longer.

danlomb
06-18-2011, 07:07 PM
Being a Marvel Zombie, I had no greater context in regards to the characters. But I loved every page, and even the backups with The Question were great.

Sent from my iPad using Jinxworld

joeAR
06-18-2011, 07:10 PM
I don't love everything Rucka does, but Batwoman is one that definitely hits. I've only ever LOVED his writing on GOTHAM CENTRAL, and I think he really nails this character, thanks in large part to JH. I give him major props here.

What was the reason for him leaving the character again?


From what I read it was cause of DC interfering with the story. Not sure how much of that is true or not though.

The Hodag
06-18-2011, 11:50 PM
What was the reason for him leaving the character again?

He's homophobic.

The Governor
06-19-2011, 03:27 AM
This completely passed me by, and having read the postive comments went off to look for the Deluxe edition and can't find it anywhere in the UK!