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View Full Version : The Best & Worst Comic Book Events by IGN



Maestro
06-16-2011, 12:37 PM
IGN has made lists of the comic events they think are good and not so good:

The Best - http://comics.ign.com/articles/117/1170986p1.html
The Worst - http://comics.ign.com/articles/117/1172370p1.html

A lot of stories by our own Brian Michael Bendis are mentioned!! Do you agree with these choices? What are your favorite and least favorite events?

Spidey616
06-16-2011, 01:14 PM
See I wasn't the only one who read that IGN article.

Some of the ones that made the Worst List need no explanation (Armageddon 2001, Countdown). Thought they were kinda harsh on Secret Invasion, which I actually enjoyed especially since we got some great tie-ins ex) Hercules, Captain Britain, Black Panther by Jason Aaron, etc.

Shadowland I thought was decent, not bad enough to make a Worst List less than a year after release.

KirbyKrackle
06-16-2011, 01:45 PM
Secret Invasion did have pacing problems, It could have also been much tighter and focused and cut down to six issues. Though the mighty avengers and new avengers secret invasion tie ins were a thousand times better. those issues were what I wanted out of the main story.

Nice to see that some people appreciate final crisis.

Forrest
06-16-2011, 01:57 PM
I mostly agree with this list but I would have included Crisis on Multiple Earths, Infinite Crisis and Brightest Day in the best of list.

Also, Batman: No Man's Land.

RickLM
06-16-2011, 02:16 PM
This list reminded me why I haven't picked up an event book in three years.

Bill!
06-16-2011, 04:12 PM
See I wasn't the only one who read that IGN article.

Some of the ones that made the Worst List need no explanation (Armageddon 2001, Countdown). Thought they were kinda harsh on Secret Invasion, which I actually enjoyed especially since we got some great tie-ins ex) Hercules, Captain Britain, Black Panther by Jason Aaron, etc.

Shadowland I thought was decent, not bad enough to make a Worst List less than a year after release.

Secret Invasion was pretty terrible, and of the tie-ins that I've read (X-Men, X-Factor) they were absolutely worthless and actually hurt the X-men continuity. The Skrulls should have been left in the capable hands of Abnett and Lanning.

S. Earl
06-16-2011, 04:16 PM
I have about 30 tie in issues of Secret Invasion I never read. Digging them up and plowing through the entire saga has been a weekend project I've been meaning to get to for years.

TheKraken
06-16-2011, 04:19 PM
Disassembled and Civil War are not good events. Civil War is based on embarrassingly naive politics and characters suddenly acting completely different than normal to make certain things happen, and it has a terribly weak ending. And with JMS and Millar writing completely different Tony Starks and Millar and Brubaker writing different Captain Americas, it contradicted itself every month. Disassembled's purpose was to allow New Avengers to happen, and it reads like it. The villain was surprisingly obvious from the first issue and none of the title characters did anything but stand around gaping during the climax of their own story. It also featured Spider-Man turning into a giant spider, dying, and giving birth to himself in his tie-in comics. What came after both events was interesting, but neither event is very satisfying. The build up to Secret Invasion was definitely better than the series itself, but I still enjoyed it a lot more than Disassembled or Civil War.

And they put Our Worlds at War on the bad list for being "too comic booky" and then put Secret Wars on the good list. Oooooooookaaaaay...

IPeacock
06-16-2011, 04:46 PM
House of M was one of the best events ever. Also this cover is awesome: (Secret Wars should be on the bad list, though)
http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/4/40/House_of_M_Vol_1_1_Textless.jpg

S. Earl
06-16-2011, 04:57 PM
The Main mini of house of M is 100% solid and can be handed to anyone. Comic Veterans and newbies both can enjoy it on different levels.

IPeacock
06-16-2011, 04:58 PM
Disassembled and Civil War are not good events. Civil War is based on embarrassingly naive politics and characters suddenly acting completely different than normal to make certain things happen, and it has a terribly weak ending. And with JMS and Millar writing completely different Tony Starks and Millar and Brubaker writing different Captain Americas, it contradicted itself every month. Disassembled's purpose was to allow New Avengers to happen, and it reads like it. The villain was surprisingly obvious from the first issue and none of the title characters did anything but stand around gaping during the climax of their own story. It also featured Spider-Man turning into a giant spider, dying, and giving birth to himself in his tie-in comics. What came after both events was interesting, but neither event is very satisfying. The build up to Secret Invasion was definitely better than the series itself, but I still enjoyed it a lot more than Disassembled or Civil War.

And they put Our Worlds at War on the bad list for being "too comic booky" and then put Secret Wars on the good list. Oooooooookaaaaay...

Secret Wars is the most expository comic ever.
The first issue has almost every character recite this sentence:
I, [LEGAL NAME], also known as [SUPERHERO NAME], who has the power of [EXPLANATION OF POWERSET].
Its not even a matter of it not aging well. That was lame from day one. I didn’t like it when I was a kid when the comics came out with the toys. The toys were great. I was the envy of my neighborhood because I was the only one with black Spider-Man.

IPeacock
06-16-2011, 04:59 PM
The Main mini of house of M is 100% solid and can be handed to anyone. Comic Veterans and newbies both can enjoy it on different levels.


Its a weird animal, though. I really didn't like the tie-ins at all, but I really enjoyed Gage's follow up mini's.

Andrew
06-16-2011, 05:00 PM
House of M is definitely the best Marvel event of the last decade. It hit all the right notes. There wasn't enough fallout explored in subsequent books, but that seems to be the case with all of these events.

On the worst side, Secret Invasion was definitely the crappiest. So much wasted potential. In the end, did anything even happen? Mockingbird came back. Whoop-di-doo.

jason hissong
06-16-2011, 05:00 PM
Final Crisis!

:rock:

GrandeMaestro Fünke
06-16-2011, 05:02 PM
Disassembled and Civil War are not good events. Civil War is based on embarrassingly naive politics and characters suddenly acting completely different than normal to make certain things happen, and it has a terribly weak ending. And with JMS and Millar writing completely different Tony Starks and Millar and Brubaker writing different Captain Americas, it contradicted itself every month. Disassembled's purpose was to allow New Avengers to happen, and it reads like it. The villain was surprisingly obvious from the first issue and none of the title characters did anything but stand around gaping during the climax of their own story. It also featured Spider-Man turning into a giant spider, dying, and giving birth to himself in his tie-in comics. What came after both events was interesting, but neither event is very satisfying. The build up to Secret Invasion was definitely better than the series itself, but I still enjoyed it a lot more than Disassembled or Civil War.

And they put Our Worlds at War on the bad list for being "too comic booky" and then put Secret Wars on the good list. Oooooooookaaaaay...

Agreed. Disassembled gets a pass from me though because it lead to House of M.

Valoharth
06-16-2011, 05:06 PM
Seems like there are a lot of event books on these lists just because they're still in recent memory. Superman WoNK wasn't too terrible, the writing was solid but honestly a few years from now it's probably going to forgotten.

WhindamPryce
06-16-2011, 05:07 PM
Onslaught was AWESOME!!! :rock:

That list is some bullshit right there. :)

Matt Jay
06-16-2011, 05:09 PM
Interesting list.

I remembered that the Clone Saga scared me off of 616 Spider-man to this day and Onslaught was responsible for scaring me out of comics until the Ultimate line came around.

I have to agree with Kraken's assessment of Disassembled. It was bearable to me at first but it hasn't held up at all.

Secret Wars is objectively terrible until it swerves into an interesting Dr. Doom story for the last few issues.

House of M and Annihilation deserve their spot as some of the best events.

Infinity Gauntlet is the gold standard as far as events go. Nothing has topped it since. And Thanos Quest is the best part about it.

And where was the Dark Reign love? Does that not count? That shit was epic.

Andrew
06-16-2011, 05:10 PM
It also featured Spider-Man turning into a giant spider, dying, and giving birth to himself in his tie-in comics.

Paul Jenkins' Spectacular Spider-Man run was a disaster throughout. That didn't really have anything to do with what Bendis was doing.


Disassembled's purpose was to allow New Avengers to happen, and it reads like it. The villain was surprisingly obvious from the first issue and none of the title characters did anything but stand around gaping during the climax of their own story.


Agreed. Disassembled gets a pass from me though because it lead to House of M.

Avengers Disassembled was necessary. Before that, nobody cared about the Avengers.

They're now Marvel's biggest franchise with multiple books, which was unfathomable 10 years ago. Be glad it went the way it did.

Gordon Chumway
06-16-2011, 05:23 PM
Interesting list.

I remembered that the Clone Saga scared me off of 616 Spider-man to this day and Onslaught was responsible for scaring me out of comics until the Ultimate line came around.

I have to agree with Kraken's assessment of Disassembled. It was bearable to me at first but it hasn't held up at all.

Secret Wars is objectively terrible until it swerves into an interesting Dr. Doom story for the last few issues.

House of M and Annihilation deserve their spot as some of the best events.

Infinity Gauntlet is the gold standard as far as events go. Nothing has topped it since. And Thanos Quest is the best part about it.

And where was the Dark Reign love? Does that not count? That shit was epic.

It is almost like we share a brain.

Supreme Convoy
06-16-2011, 05:56 PM
Huh. I think this is the first time I've heard someone disliking Secret Invasion.

Ryudo
06-17-2011, 04:39 AM
In retrospect, and after reading it in trade form, Final Crisis is actually pretty good. In the single issues, it was largely confusing but that was just due to some pacing issues and Grant being Grant.

WONK was awful and unnecessary, considering DC is retconning it away or whatever.

Annihilation is probably my favorite event out of the ones they list.

Pidge
06-17-2011, 04:52 AM
I loved the Onslaught event, and really enjoyed the aspect that it was so far reaching, it made it feel all that more serious.

Also, I think Secret Invasion was the best event marvel has done. That first issue is still one of my favorite comics of all time. It wasn't just the event that I loved, it was everything surrounding it, the months of speculation, rereading older books looking for clues, it made the whole experience better. I loved it.

Forrest
06-17-2011, 05:03 AM
This list was fun and I think it's high time I get to reading Annihilation. And, don't hit me, but I've still never read Infinity Gauntlet. Catching up on Marvel space events is on my to-do list.


In retrospect, and after reading it in trade form, Final Crisis is actually pretty good. In the single issues, it was largely confusing but that was just due to some pacing issues and Grant being Grant.

Agreed. Final Crisis is pretty heavy and my second time reading it, when I got a hold of the hardcover, was much more entertaining. My first time around, I also made the mistake of not reading's Grant's critical Superman tie-in, "Superman Beyond."

hamgravy
06-17-2011, 05:19 AM
CIVIL WAR - a gimmick buttressed by deplorable characterization. couldn't get past the second issue
SECRET INVASION - all build-up, treading water, and wasted potential for me.
SECRET WARS - nostalgia, the toys, Hulk holding up a mountain, and the Dr.Doom final act make up for how much of a boilerplate it is
INFINITE CRISIS - Silver Age cheese laced with hardcore violence makes for embarrassing basement-dweller comics. I loved all of the Prelude books, though.
FINAL CRISIS - couldn't care less.

As far as "Events" with great tie-ins and a mini-series with a beginning, middle, and end, ANNIHILATION is the one that hits on all levels.

Generic Poster
06-17-2011, 06:04 AM
Secret Invasion was about 1,000 times better than Avengers Dissassembled.

hamgravy
06-17-2011, 06:07 AM
I wouldn't count Avengers Disassembled as an event. My rules: events need to have a core mini.

But, I'll take the chance to tout Oeming's Thor: Disassembled in any thread I can.

Andrew
06-17-2011, 06:10 AM
Secret Invasion was about 1,000 times better than Avengers Dissassembled.

:no:

Generic Poster
06-17-2011, 06:27 AM
:no:

:mad:

Evan the Shaggy
06-17-2011, 06:31 AM
I thought Secret Invasion was a tad disappointing. I can remember buying it when it was coming out and the Avengers were gone in the Savage Land for about four months, and weren't even in their own books during that time (Mighty Avengers practically disappeared for about 8 months as it was all a platform for "What have the Skrulls been up to?")

The idea was solid and I remember being enthusiastic about who would and wouldn't be a Skrull (I was like 100% sure that Hank McCoy was one.)

hamgravy
06-17-2011, 06:37 AM
I thought Secret Invasion was a tad disappointing. I can remember buying it when it was coming out and the Avengers were gone in the Savage Land for about four months, and weren't even in their own books during that time (Mighty Avengers practically disappeared for about 8 months as it was all a platform for "What have the Skrulls been up to?")

The idea was solid and I remember being enthusiastic about who would and wouldn't be a Skrull (I was like 100% sure that Hank McCoy was one.)

Right, and essentially "The Skrulls have already won!" was undone by a skirmish on the Central Park lawn? The concept was stronger than the outcome.

Ray G.
06-17-2011, 06:39 AM
House of M was fantastic.

I think Secret Invasion started great, but the ending didn't live up to it.

I don't think I've ever disliked an event as much as Civil War, except for the great art.

IPeacock
06-17-2011, 06:58 AM
House of M was fantastic.

I think Secret Invasion started great, but the ending didn't live up to it.

I don't think I've ever disliked an event as much as Civil War, except for the great art.


I hated that part in Civil War, when the Punisher said that he was the only one who had the Black ops training to get into the Baxter building.

What black ops training did you receive in the jungles of Vietnam that would prepare you break into the most scientifically advanced building on the planet.

web_head02
06-17-2011, 07:13 AM
Civil War, 52, and House of M are some of my favorites so I'm glad they were included. I'm surprised Infinite Crisis didn't get a mention.

I definitely don't agree with Secret Invasion being on the worst list. While it wasn't perfect and I wouldn't put it on the best list either I still enjoyed it a lot for what it was. I don't think it was nearly as bad as people try to make it out to be.

Final Crisis on the other was just awful IMO. I does not belong on the best list. The pacing was horrible. It was at time incoherent and I found a bunch of the plot points kind of stupid.

Oh and I would have liked to see Kingdom Come on the best list. Although on second thought it probably considered a mini-series and not an event.

web_head02
06-17-2011, 07:26 AM
CIVIL WAR - a gimmick buttressed by deplorable characterization. couldn't get past the second issue
SECRET INVASION - all build-up, treading water, and wasted potential for me.
SECRET WARS - nostalgia, the toys, Hulk holding up a mountain, and the Dr.Doom final act make up for how much of a boilerplate it is
INFINITE CRISIS - Silver Age cheese laced with hardcore violence makes for embarrassing basement-dweller comics. I loved all of the Prelude books, though.
FINAL CRISIS - couldn't care less.

As far as "Events" with great tie-ins and a mini-series with a beginning, middle, and end, ANNIHILATION is the one that hits on all levels.

What up. Good to see another Newsarama user ended up here.

information
06-17-2011, 07:28 AM
My favorites are Infinity Gauntlet and DC One Million. I can't think of any others that didn't disappoint in some fundamental way.

Kedd
06-17-2011, 07:30 AM
I like HoM, but not that much. I hate it's conclusion and it's effect on the X-Books most of all. Secret Invasion was just a huge disappointment, largely because of all the hype surounding it. Had it be contained to just the avengers book as an arc to tie up some loose ends, I might be more favorable towards it. Civil War was good based on two things: McNiven's art and Heroes punching each other. Oh, third thing: Cloak and Dagger. The story itself was kind of basic and shallow, but I think the idea was rather sound.

Cactusakic
06-17-2011, 07:38 AM
I've said it more than a few times before and I'm sure I'll end up saying it again at some point, but the only event worth a damn from the big two in the past decade has been Annihilation.

The whole thing was pretty much perfect from start to finish.

Other events have had good parts here and there, but they've been tarnished by multiple cash-in minis and tie-ins.

Kedd
06-17-2011, 07:43 AM
I've said it more than a few times before and I'm sure I'll end up saying it again at some point, but the only event worth a damn from the big two in the past decade has been Annihilation.

The whole thing was pretty much perfect from start to finish.

Other events have had good parts here and there, but they've been tarnished by multiple cash-in minis and tie-ins.
I've enjoyed what I've read of Annihilation. One day I'll actually complete it.

Evan the Shaggy
06-17-2011, 07:46 AM
My favorites are Infinity Gauntlet and DC One Million. I can't think of any others that didn't disappoint in some fundamental way.

Infinity Gauntlet is really the greatest comic book event of all time.

SidekicksRevenge
06-17-2011, 07:49 AM
House of M was a lot of fun and left a lot of goodies on the table to be played with. Some of them were handled well (No More Mutants is the obvious choice), and some not-so-much (a massively blown opportunity with Spider-Man having his memories of a life with Gwen and all of his major failings having never happened - while still being really married to MJ....THAT could have undone a marriage - instead we got "The Other"). But it was everything an event should be.

Secret Invasion did a great job of paying off the lead-in with it's first issue, and a great job of setting the table with it's last two issues. It's just the ones in the middle of those that didn't deliver.

Cactusakic
06-17-2011, 07:49 AM
I've enjoyed what I've read of Annihilation. One day I'll actually complete it.

Glad to hear you've enjoyed it so far.
I'm confident you'll dig the rest just as much, if not more.

To expand a tiny bit on what I just said, Annihilation: Conquest is also solid, certainly moreso than any other event in recent memory, but not *quite* as good as the original.

Masculine Todd
06-17-2011, 07:50 AM
I read Secret Invasion in trade, so that protracted Savage Land scene/fight wasn't a nuisance and the pacing was fine. SI, especially when taken as another major plot-point in the magnum opus of Disassembled to Siege, was awesome. I'd have swapped that for Identity Crisis on the "Best List" (Identity Crisis is filled with good ideas wrapped in meandering, contrived "humanizing" points and a rape thrown in, 'cause THAT'S HOW YOU MAKE THESE PEOPLE VULNERABLE!").

Kedd
06-17-2011, 07:53 AM
Rape as a tool characterization is really not the best way to go more often than not.

The Dean
06-17-2011, 08:03 AM
I think Civil War was rated a bit high. I liked the concept but I really loathed a lot of the events in the core book (cloning a god, Sue leaving the kids behind and her jackass letter to Reed, the revamping of Speedball into a character/genre he doesn't belong.)

I think Unity was a really, really solid and I'm almost tempted to give Amalgam a nod because scope was fantastic for the big two to tackle.

Masculine Todd
06-17-2011, 10:44 AM
Rape as a tool characterization is really not the best way to go more often than not.

But, like, how else can you bring gods to, uh, relatable levels...or something?!

Besides how cheap, exploitative and tactless the rape was (not to mention the underlying misogyny of the thing), the end reveal had virtually no macguffins/seeded clues, felt entirely anticlimactic and the story really didn't contribute much to the DCU beyond the horrendous "stakes are raised" exposition in every issue of every DC series ever afterwards. Meltzer's good with character moments, but a few strong scenes does not a good mini make.

Identity Crisis is the worst.

Kedd
06-17-2011, 10:51 AM
But, like, how else can you bring gods to, uh, relatable levels...or something?!

Besides how cheap, exploitative and tactless the rape was (not to mention the underlying misogyny of the thing), the end reveal had virtually no macguffins/seeded clues, felt entirely anticlimactic and the story really didn't contribute much to the DCU beyond the horrendous "stakes are raised" exposition in every issue of every DC series ever afterwards. Meltzer's good with character moments, but a few strong scenes does not a good mini make.

Identity Crisis is the worst.
If Batman raped Superman I might be more likely to believe that the stakes were raised.

Masculine Todd
06-17-2011, 10:53 AM
Civil War's a good concept/something that just begged to be tackled by a major superhero universe, but Millar shouldn't have been the guy to write it. I love him. He's great, but when stories rely on strong character examinations and questions of ideology, he's not the guy. He's a concept/action/one-liner generator, and that's what you want in a 12 issue run where Wolverine fights the entire Marvel Universe.

When questioning thoughtful issues like civil liberties vs. security and regulation, which cuts to the root of a former arms dealer and a WWII veteran, Millar isn't preferable. Like, I normally hate criticisms along the lines of "that's not how Tony Stark would react," his Cap and Tony are pretty incongruent, considering how Bendis, Brubaker, Ellis and others were writing them at the time.

Masculine Todd
06-17-2011, 10:55 AM
If Batman raped Superman I might be more likely to believe that the stakes were raised.

That'd make for a good 9 or 10 issues of Superman/Batman where various supporting characters mention how the stakes were raised and "it's a different world now!"

Also, Batman having internal monologues about hating crime and hating himself or whatever in gritty noir-speech would be great!

Masculine Todd
06-17-2011, 10:58 AM
I'll sum up Civil War for anyone who hasn't read it:

Cap growling about "rich boy punks" and traitors while endangering people and ignoring public safety. He doesn't do things like discuss his stance/offer a cogent argument in a public forum, attempt to lobby support or present thoughtful conversation in Congress. He just beats people up and yells.

Also, each issue had a fun half-page scene where someone's like "Tony, are you sure we're doing the right thing," and he's all "yes," but then we cut to a panel where he looks away pensively.

And then Sue Storm cooks and fucks Reed Richards before walking out on him so that he'll remember her fondly.

jason hissong
06-17-2011, 10:59 AM
I think I'm the only person here who adores Final Crisis.

Marcdachamp
06-17-2011, 11:03 AM
Let's see...

Avengers Disassembled was fun. It was crazy, it shook stuff up, and it made the Avengers relevant in a way they hadn't been in their history. Yeah, it has some beats that might not be perfect, but it set the stage for a brand new Marvel universe. And a better one, at that.

House of M was great. I think Hawkeye's journey should have been a part of the main mini, though. His issue of The Pulse was fantastic, and I think it feels like an integral part of the story. Son of M was an amazing follow-up, too.

Secret Invasion was pretty solid, but I agree, I think they could have went a little harder with the reveals. It was nice to get Bobbi back, but there wasn't one "WHAAAAT?!" reveal. And I think that hurt it a bit.

Civil War has a lot of problems, but there's a reason it resonated with audiences so well: it's kind of fascinating, conceptually. It's bigger, it's badder, the stakes are higher... I think both main characters make some head scratching decisions, but, I'm telling you, I don't think I've ever been more scared or excited to buy comics. And Bendis, Brubaker and Sacasa wrote some brilliant tie-ins.

Identity Crisis definitely suffers from the rape and the complete BS reveal, but... I kind of liked it. It had some really cool ideas and it added a touch of humanity to the DCU characters.

Infinity Gauntlet is perfect. Issue #4 is chilling.

Infinite Crisis felt like a slap in the face, for a lot of reasons.

Blake Sims
06-17-2011, 11:08 AM
I think I'm the only person here who adores Final Crisis.

:wave:

Masculine Todd
06-17-2011, 11:08 AM
I think I'm the only person here who adores Final Crisis.

No you're not! Final Crisis is so rad.

By the way, My spam filter for my campus email's funny, so you may need to shoot that email to me again (I now you sent one, but I couldn't open it, and for whatever reason, it's inexplicably gone).

Kedd
06-17-2011, 11:10 AM
I'll sum up Civil War for anyone who hasn't read it:

Cap growling about "rich boy punks" and traitors while endangering people and ignoring public safety. He doesn't do things like discuss his stance/offer a cogent argument in a public forum, attempt to lobby support or present thoughtful conversation in Congress. He just beats people up and yells.

Also, each issue had a fun half-page scene where someone's like "Tony, are you sure we're doing the right thing," and he's all "yes," but then we cut to a panel where he looks away pensively.

And then Sue Storm cooks and fucks Reed Richards before walking out on him so that he'll remember her fondly.

:rofl:


I think I'm the only person here who adores Final Crisis.
Haven't read it yet.

Evan the Shaggy
06-17-2011, 11:11 AM
I don't think many people have mentioned Sinestro Corps War but that was pretty damn perfect in terms of an event/crossover.

Evan the Shaggy
06-17-2011, 11:12 AM
I think I'm the only person here who adores Final Crisis.

I need to read it again myself.

I thought the whole Vampire Anti-Monitor thing wasn't really needed.

jason hissong
06-17-2011, 11:14 AM
:wave:

:rock:


No you're not! Final Crisis is so rad.

By the way, My spam filter for my campus email's funny, so you may need to shoot that email to me again (I now you sent one, but I couldn't open it, and for whatever reason, it's inexplicably gone).

Yes. Just forwarded to you.

I AM NOT ALONE!

web_head02
06-17-2011, 11:15 AM
I'll sum up Civil War for anyone who hasn't read it:

Cap growling about "rich boy punks" and traitors while endangering people and ignoring public safety. He doesn't do things like discuss his stance/offer a cogent argument in a public forum, attempt to lobby support or present thoughtful conversation in Congress. He just beats people up and yells.

Also, each issue had a fun half-page scene where someone's like "Tony, are you sure we're doing the right thing," and he's all "yes," but then we cut to a panel where he looks away pensively.

And then Sue Storm cooks and fucks Reed Richards before walking out on him so that he'll remember her fondly.

LMAO while I agree this is a pretty spot summary. I still liked it.

jason hissong
06-17-2011, 11:15 AM
I need to read it again myself.

I thought the whole Vampire Anti-Monitor thing wasn't really needed.

It added a nice secondary story to the already huge Darkseide threat.

Maestro
06-17-2011, 11:18 AM
I sincerely believe Civil War and Ultimatum could have been 5x better if Bendis wrote them.

Masculine Todd
06-17-2011, 11:22 AM
I'm of the opinion that Tony should have cried a few times in Civil War. That really would've emphasized how ambivalent/conflicted his emotions were.

And remember that issue where Captain America was Batman from DKR? And remember when Tony was like "hey Peter, I'm pretty disappointed in you, little guy" and I was just like "okay, dad."

Evan the Shaggy
06-17-2011, 11:30 AM
I'm of the opinion that Tony should have cried a few times in Civil War. That really would've emphasized how ambivalent/conflicted his emotions were.

And remember that issue where Captain America was Batman from DKR? And remember when Tony was like "hey Peter, I'm pretty disappointed in you, little guy" and I was just like "okay, dad."

The Iron Man in Amazing Spiderman was basically a villain during Civil War. "If they don't sign up, they're in prison forever!" and "Don't worry Peter, revealing your identity will be fine....UNLESS YOU FUCK WITH ME!" The story should have been more about both sides being right in their own ways, unfortunately the pro-reg side was cloning Thor, accidentally murdering heroes, and enlisting psychopaths.

Made it kind of cut and dry to pick a side.

Slewo.O
06-17-2011, 11:31 AM
I mostly agree with this list but I would have included Crisis on Multiple Earths, Infinite Crisis and Brightest Day in the best of list.

Also, Batman: No Man's Land.

Brightest Day isn't an event.

Cactusakic
06-17-2011, 11:32 AM
I don't think many people have mentioned Sinestro Corps War but that was pretty damn perfect in terms of an event/crossover.

Yes.

Kedd
06-17-2011, 11:37 AM
Brightest Day isn't an event.
It's as much of an event as Disassembled was.

A.Huerta
06-17-2011, 11:37 AM
I couldn't finish Secret Invasion. I tried, but it just dragged and nothing really major happened.

Civil War was pretty fun, tho. It wasn't the greatest thing ever, but it was at least entertaining.

And ANNIHILATION was my favorite and the best one, imo.

Masculine Todd
06-17-2011, 11:38 AM
unfortunately the pro-reg side was cloning Thor, accidentally murdering heroes, and enlisting psychopaths.

Made it kind of cut and dry to pick a side.

Yeah, and really, it's pretty hard to side with Cap. Putting the "big brains" on the pro-reg side, making Hank and Reed even more detached and pragmatic and having the sociopath Thor was such a manipulative/cheap way to make the anti-reg rebels the ostensible goods guys.

I mean, I don't know, unregulated vigilantes is a hard thing to justify.

Masculine Todd
06-17-2011, 11:39 AM
Brightest Day isn't an event.

Semantics!

S. Earl
06-17-2011, 11:40 AM
Brightest Day isn't an event.

Well it was an event in that the amount of dissapointment I felt when it ended was monumental, so large in fact that it should have gotten it's own holiday so I could morn all the money wasted.

Taxman
06-17-2011, 11:41 AM
Do you agree with these choices? I really don't take issue with anything included which I have read.

I quit reading Marvel after Secret Invasion.

Masculine Todd
06-17-2011, 11:41 AM
I liked Ultimatum because I haven't much investment in the characters, and I read it in much the same way as Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe. That thing was a laugh riot. Magneto's flooding Manhattan and everyone just stands by making shocked faced when, all of a sudden, Blob's eating Wasp.

S. Earl
06-17-2011, 11:41 AM
I love Civil War. Love it. It's Michael Bay meets Super Heroes and it's awesome.

IPeacock
06-17-2011, 11:43 AM
I sincerely believe Civil War and Ultimatum would have been 10x better if Bendis wrote them.

I fixed that for you.

Taxman
06-17-2011, 11:44 AM
House of M was one of the best events ever. Also this cover is awesome: (Secret Wars should be on the bad list, though)
http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/4/40/House_of_M_Vol_1_1_Textless.jpgHouse of M probably would have been better if it hadn't been an event, but more like a two year divergence.

S. Earl
06-17-2011, 11:46 AM
House of M probably would have been better if it hadn't been an event, but more like a two year divergence.

Ah, DC is trying that out right now. For 5 months it's a huge divergence, and then after that the status quo is going to be a slight divergence.

Evan the Shaggy
06-17-2011, 11:48 AM
I liked Ultimatum because I haven't much investment in the characters, and I read it in much the same way as Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe. That thing was a laugh riot. Magneto's flooding Manhattan and everyone just stands by making shocked faced when, all of a sudden, Blob's eating Wasp.

God I love Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe.

"Well Xmen, you called us all here on the moon! Prepare for the final battle."
"Wait a minute...I thought you called us."
"No I....oh shit."
*nuke goes off*

Dan
06-17-2011, 12:12 PM
DC's greatest event ever was Invasion!
Marvel's was Acts of Vengeance.

Prove me wrong!

Slewo.O
06-17-2011, 12:15 PM
It's as much of an event as Disassembled was.




Semantics!

So what exactly constitutes an event than? I thought we were talking big company crossovers.

Marcdachamp
06-17-2011, 12:20 PM
God I love Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe.

"Well Xmen, you called us all here on the moon! Prepare for the final battle."
"Wait a minute...I thought you called us."
"No I....oh shit."
*nuke goes off*

Ever read that Calvin and Hobbes strip with the T-Rexes flying the F-14s? That's what Punisher kills the Marvel Universe was to me.

IPeacock
06-17-2011, 12:28 PM
House of M probably would have been better if it hadn't been an event, but more like a two year divergence.

I really wish Bendis wrote a couple minis that came out with the main series fleshing out the world alittle bit. But, yeah I would have been even better if it played out like Age of Apocalypse

IPeacock
06-17-2011, 12:29 PM
Ever read that Calvin and Hobbes strip with the T-Rexes flying the F-14s? That's what Punisher kills the Marvel Universe was to me.

I'm confused. Do mean it was awesome?

Slewo.O
06-17-2011, 12:30 PM
I'm confused. Do mean it was awesome?

Yes, yes it was awesome. That along with Frank's fight with Wolverine.

IPeacock
06-17-2011, 12:31 PM
Yes, yes it was awesome. That along with Frank's fight with Wolverine.

I'm rereading this when I get home, now.

Marcdachamp
06-17-2011, 12:32 PM
I'm confused. Do mean it was awesome?

It was fun in the absolute stupidest way ever. :lol:

Kedd
06-17-2011, 12:36 PM
So what exactly constitutes an event than? I thought we were talking big company crossovers.
I don't know what they're criteria is. But if a story that was widely contained in one line, such as Disassembled or AoA or Clone Saga, can be considered an event, I don't see why Brightest Day couldn't.

IPeacock
06-17-2011, 12:43 PM
It was fun in the absolute stupidest way ever. :lol:

Ok so you did mean awesome.

The Dean
06-17-2011, 12:43 PM
Another problem I had with Civil War was that Cap and Iron Man should have switched sides.

Cap should have been the pro-register, the "get in line, soldier" kind of guy. You know, the man who's been through WWII and knows that you have to make tough decisions to do the right thing.
Iron Man should have taken the position of deregulation and letting heroes police themselves. I never bought the whole, "I thought of this years ago" stance he took.

KirbyKrackle
06-17-2011, 12:44 PM
"Final Crisis is the Moby Dick of superhero event comics"-Me

The Dean
06-17-2011, 12:46 PM
DC's greatest event ever was Invasion!
Marvel's was Acts of Vengeance.

Prove me wrong!

Acts of Vengeance was awesome. The scene where Jarvis defended a comatose Hercules against the wrecking crew was epic.

Cactusakic
06-17-2011, 12:48 PM
Brightest Day had a self-contained, self-titled maxiseries, plus tie-in issues of Green Lantern, Green Lantern Corps, Birds Of Prey, Teen Titans and Green Arrow and that's just off the top of my head.

If that ain't an event, I dunno what is.

Cactusakic
06-17-2011, 12:49 PM
Brightest Day had a self-contained, self-titled maxiseries, plus tie-in issues of Green Lantern, Green Lantern Corps, Birds Of Prey, Teen Titans and Green Arrow and that's just off the top of my head.

If that ain't an event, I dunno what is.

Oh, and the upcoming Search For Swamp Thing mini.

And, technically, Justice League: Generation Lost came under the BD banner too.

EVENT!!

jason hissong
06-17-2011, 12:58 PM
"Final Crisis is the Moby Dick of superhero event comics"-Me

Call me Mr. Miracle.

Dan-C
06-17-2011, 01:03 PM
I understand the hate for Ultimatum in the sense that its delays really affected the overall story. But read as a whole, its pretty solid. The fallout from it, and resulting Ultimate U were great. So that one definitely doesn't deserve it.

Same with Secret Invasion. I think that one's a case of all of the build up should be counted as part of the story. Plus the pay off and fall out was pretty good. The rest deserve to be there on the bad side.

And there's no way in hell I'll ever agree that Final Crisis was a good story. Especially when what the result should have been - a kind of a creative relaunch for the line - is happening now, a couple years after the book ended. plus the delays, the fact that it kinda half assedly tied in to Batman RIP. Just a mess.

Dan-C
06-17-2011, 01:06 PM
Another problem I had with Civil War was that Cap and Iron Man should have switched sides.

Cap should have been the pro-register, the "get in line, soldier" kind of guy. You know, the man who's been through WWII and knows that you have to make tough decisions to do the right thing.
Iron Man should have taken the position of deregulation and letting heroes police themselves. I never bought the whole, "I thought of this years ago" stance he took.

Part of what made the story great is that some of the characters didn't wind up taking the sides that you would have expected them to.

Slewo.O
06-17-2011, 01:07 PM
I understand the hate for Ultimatum in the sense that its delays really affected the overall story. But read as a whole, its pretty solid. The fallout from it, and resulting Ultimate U were great. So that one definitely doesn't deserve it.

Same with Secret Invasion. I think that one's a case of all of the build up should be counted as part of the story. Plus the pay off and fall out was pretty good. The rest deserve to be there on the bad side.

And there's no way in hell I'll ever agree that Final Crisis was a good story. Especially when what the result should have been - a kind of a creative relaunch for the line - is happening now, a couple years after the book ended. plus the delays, the fact that it kinda half assedly tied in to Batman RIP. Just a mess.

Final Crisis wasn't a good story. It was a great story. It's not Grant Morrison's fault only the Batman line really changed due to it and that doesn't affect the story itself anyhow. As for Batman RIP, that's an editorial thing it wasn't originally meant to tie-in with FC, but if you read the rest of Morrison's Batman run it's pretty clear as to how RIP fits with Final Crisis... Not that those things affect the quality of either story.

Vigilance
06-17-2011, 01:15 PM
Secret Invasion was pretty terrible, and of the tie-ins that I've read (X-Men, X-Factor) they were absolutely worthless and actually hurt the X-men continuity. The Skrulls should have been left in the capable hands of Abnett and Lanning.

Secret Invasion killed my interest in reading New Avengers, which I had a complete run of until that point.

Taxman
06-17-2011, 01:17 PM
So what exactly constitutes an event than? I thought we were talking big company crossovers.

I think it really just come down to the marketing.

BGPu
06-17-2011, 01:21 PM
I'm glad people are calling out Secret Invasion. Two great issues, followed by 4 plodding issues, ending with an anti-climactic fight over 2 issues. Getting my comics from DCBS I avoided the spoilers the best I could, and the big change to the status quo was that Norman Osborne became the heel general manager of the Marvel universe? And then every time a character mentioned the Wasp there would be a panel where the rest of the Avengers stood there silently looking sad. The back story tie ins in the 2 Avengers books were the meat of the event.

Ultimatum read like a bad DC event where characters are gruesomely slaughtered ever couple pages for effect.

Civil War was too long, with characters out of character. 5 years later it doesn't really mean anything.

House of M and Siege were pretty solid. Infinity Gauntlet set a pretty solid standard.

Maestro
06-17-2011, 01:21 PM
I think it really just come down to the marketing.

and it has to contain some variant of the phrase "the _____ universe will never be the same again!"

Taxman
06-17-2011, 01:28 PM
Acts of Vengeance was awesome. The scene where Jarvis defended a comatose Hercules against the wrecking crew was epic.

:lol:

This is a put on, isn't it?

Vigilance
06-17-2011, 01:30 PM
I'll sum up Civil War for anyone who hasn't read it:

Cap growling about "rich boy punks" and traitors while endangering people and ignoring public safety. He doesn't do things like discuss his stance/offer a cogent argument in a public forum, attempt to lobby support or present thoughtful conversation in Congress. He just beats people up and yells.

Also, each issue had a fun half-page scene where someone's like "Tony, are you sure we're doing the right thing," and he's all "yes," but then we cut to a panel where he looks away pensively.

And then Sue Storm cooks and fucks Reed Richards before walking out on him so that he'll remember her fondly.

I found this hilarious.

Though I will say, I always liked the way Millar wrote Cap as a tough guy.

It sure beats Brubaker's "I'll make Steve Rogers so emo that half the fans of the book will praise me for killing him off, Stockholm Syndrome-style" characterization.

Slewo.O
06-17-2011, 01:57 PM
I found this hilarious.

Though I will say, I always liked the way Millar wrote Cap as a tough guy.

It sure beats Brubaker's "I'll make Steve Rogers so emo that half the fans of the book will praise me for killing him off, Stockholm Syndrome-style" characterization.

What??? Bru's Steve Rogers is badass. Millar was basically writing a less conservative Ultimate Cap.

Vigilance
06-17-2011, 02:02 PM
What??? Bru's Steve Rogers is badass. Millar was basically writing a less conservative Ultimate Cap.

I liked Bru's Steve Roger actually, but he was pretty emo.

He was still tough though, so you got me there.

Slewo.O
06-17-2011, 02:05 PM
I liked Bru's Steve Roger actually, but he was pretty emo.

He was still tough though, so you got me there.

Cap has always been a melancholy character going back to when he first joined the Avengers. Sure he's not always cheery but it fits.

The Robot Lord of Tokyo
06-17-2011, 02:11 PM
If there are 3 that i'd add to the worst list it would be:
#1: Image's Deathmate. Even if all the issues did ship on time it was a contrived mess of a plot that helped put Valiant out of business and put Image on a huge downswing for years.
#2: Image's Image United. Once again delays and a mediocre plot will be what this event will be known for. Now that Duke Nukem Forever and GNR's Chinese Democracy are out, Image United will be the time benchmark that everything will be compared to.
#3: X-Men X-ecutioner's Song. This X-Men crossover accomplished nothing. It pretty much was Mr Sinister, Appocalypse, and Stryfe chewing scenery and being ambiguous for the entire series. And no ending was more unsatisfying then this.

And if there is was an event that could always use more love i'd say it would be the Mutant Massacre. That was at when Claremont was at his peak and there were lasting reprecusions from the event.

Doc Randy
06-17-2011, 02:27 PM
I just recently read the main marvel books from Disassembled to Siege. I think looking at any of the events by themselves only gives you a small part of the picture. I think taken as a whole, that each event is just a small incomplete chapter in a grander story, then they all work really well.

Masculine Todd
06-17-2011, 02:39 PM
Randy is the only making sense anymore.

S. Earl
06-17-2011, 02:54 PM
#3: X-Men X-ecutioner's Song. This X-Men crossover accomplished nothing. It pretty much was Mr Sinister, Appocalypse, and Stryfe chewing scenery and being ambiguous for the entire series. And no ending was more unsatisfying then this.



Fighting words.

Will
06-21-2011, 04:27 PM
I'm glad people are calling out Secret Invasion. Two great issues, followed by 4 plodding issues, ending with an anti-climactic fight over 2 issues. Getting my comics from DCBS I avoided the spoilers the best I could, and the big change to the status quo was that Norman Osborne became the heel general manager of the Marvel universe? And then every time a character mentioned the Wasp there would be a panel where the rest of the Avengers stood there silently looking sad. The back story tie ins in the 2 Avengers books were the meat of the event.
I don't really agree with IGN's placement of Secret Invasion since I don't know if I'd say it was amongst the worst but it was certainly the most disappointing.

The thing that gets to me is that I REALLY wanted to enjoy the event and on some levels it does have some really good characterization on part of the skrulls like Veranke and Criti Noll and the overall skrull empire but there were a bunch of problems that are still seen in events today such as:

Setting up a sub-plot in the main book solely to sell the tie ins/mini series instead of being better served in the book:

The FF, Sentry, Noh-Varr, Norman Osborn and the T-Bolts sub-plots felt like really noticeable and important omissions in the main mini series. Throughout they're basically just showing up as "cliff note subplots" so as to not make their appearances seem out of left field when they all converge in the last issue. For example, we didn't even see what happened to Sentry in the main mini series. He flew up into space after he flipped out and for all we knew sat it out crying in space. We had to buy the Mighty Avengers tie in where he fully gives into the Void but even then he doesn't show up again until Dark Avengers.

Noh-Var had a similar problem as well where he popped up at the end to declare the war over with and well...not much else was shown. That and his bond to Skrull Mar-Vell was mostly done in the MA tie in as well which had really rushed art.

Too many tie ins:

I realize that Marvel is a business and want to sell as many books as they can but this event had so many it was just plain overkill. I ate up all of the super skrull combinations and the different types of threats they threw at the MU but it also became a large chore to keep track of the timelines and try to read all of this stuff together. This event would probably need a whole Omnibus or two to get everything at once but to get the most out of it you definitely need to read Brian's tie in books as well as Initiative, T-Bolts and FF so this was certainly not a good example of "All you need to read is the main mini series".

General pacing:

Events tend to start off amazingly well to then just peter out over time and have a weak/rushed ending and SI was no exception. The Avengers portions of the book with them being stuck in the Savage Land for so long just struck me as too much of a stalling sub-plot so as not get the main Avengers books into some heavy action which really hurt the book's progress.

Instead of "rewind skrull reveals" we should have had a greater thrust of the Avengers portions by using the New and Mighty Avengers books to propel the teams back into the main event without compromising the overall pacing. At least that way the tie in books were still used to help with the story rather than be just additional bonus flashback material that didn't mix with the ongoing story too well such as in the Sentry issue of Mighty where we see Sentry freaking out in the Savage land to then flash back all the way to Sentry's FF days and then flash forward to the present with the Void stuff which, again, really should have been part of the main book.

Weak ending + arbitrary character death:

A lot of events fall prey to the combination of incredibly stressful deadlines for the artists and writers and ambitious scope. I really have to applaud Leinil Yu for drawing such a massive character count so he's right up there with Perez for Secret Invasion alone. I think perhaps these events would benefit from double sizing and bi-monthly scheduling so as to beef up the content and story which SI definitely could have used. The ending also fell pretty flat to me due to the irritating narrative device Brian used to suck out all of the immediacy of the ending as well as a deflated Wasp death. We really saw very little of the Wasp throughout Secret Invasion and Wasp's death rang hollow due to that and the way it was handled.

Of course I understand the intention behind it which was to boost Pym to a headliner of his own book but the execution just left a lot to be desired and we all know she's coming back anyway so it seemed needless when they could have just given the character a nice vacation in limbo.

But I think the biggest problem is that Secret Invasion as an event was more like a means to an end with some skrull stuff happening in the middle. It had the perfect set up to be like a crazy SKRULLMAGEDDON type of story and I REALLY liked the Skrull material that Brian had built out of it as well as some incredibly fun to read tie ins but it just took far too long to get there and really fumbled the ball.

Spidey616
06-21-2011, 04:59 PM
I remember an early outline of SI that Tom Brevoort posted online way back there were a couple Skrull reveals planned like Wonder Man. Few hints seemed to be dropped in Bendis' Mighty Avengers that was going to be the case.

Will
06-21-2011, 05:26 PM
I remember an early outline of SI that Tom Brevoort posted online way back there were a couple Skrull reveals planned like Wonder Man. Few hints seemed to be dropped in Bendis' Mighty Avengers that was going to be the case.
Might have been interesting although I'm not sure if there would have been much pay off there. Would definitely have messed with Carol psychologically though.

The skrull reveals for Spider-Woman, Hank Pym, and SHIELD when Maria Hill was on the carrier were really well handled and was more along the lines of what I wanted to see. But I think it would have been better if it was more far reaching like in the White House, the U.N., Pentagon, US embassy's and other high level targets. They had the superheroes infiltrated well enough but they kind of stopped there and at SHIELD so I would have liked to have seen more of a death grip on the US/World scene with them having armed nukes and other doomsday weapons on top of their orbiting armada.

Forrest
06-21-2011, 06:26 PM
All this talk about House of M makes me want to point out to those who may not have picked this up yet that DC is having their own little House of M with Flashpoint. (Not a spoiler, I'm just conveying what the first few pages already show you.) The tie-ins I've read so far have been a blast. I would recommend Flashpoint to anyone who might be curious to see a big alternate universe DCU event, a la House of M, how that might turn out. Also, if my general hunches pan out on how Flashpoint leads into the DCU reboot, there might be even more House of M parallels by the time this is over.

Will
06-21-2011, 06:39 PM
All this talk about House of M makes me want to point out to those who may not have picked this up yet that DC is having their own little House of M with Flashpoint. (Not a spoiler, I'm just conveying what the first few pages already show you.) The tie-ins I've read so far have been a blast. I would recommend Flashpoint to anyone who might be curious to see a big alternate universe DCU event, a la House of M, how that might turn out. Also, if my general hunches pan out on how Flashpoint leads into the DCU reboot, there might be even more House of M parallels by the time this is over.
Yeah it's pretty much House of M but playing with time instead of Wanda's warping which is interesting since out of all of Brian's events I think House of M was the strongest followed by Siege.

Like you, I'm really enjoying a bunch of the Flashpoint tie ins although I've been very selective with them (Batman, Secret Seven, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Citizen Cold) but as soon as my LCS restocks I'll be getting the Frankenstein/Grodd ones. I hate how DC has so many ads in their books though, after Flashpoint I'm totally done with DC's print comics and switching to purely digital/trades + collections.

Big Poot!
06-21-2011, 06:45 PM
Siege! The list is wrong if it doesn't include Siege in the "BEST." Probably the best executed event ever made by Marvel.

Forrest
06-21-2011, 06:47 PM
[A]fter Flashpoint I'm totally done with DC's print comics and switching to purely digital/trades + collections.

Ditto. I switched to mostly trades only, years ago but events like Final Crisis, Brightest Day and Flashpoint are too exciting to wait for the trade, in my opinion. Likewise, certain titles like the new volume of Flash are impossible for me to wait around for the trades all the time. So, I've had a few hold outs but once DC begins releasing all titles digitally on their print release date, I'll be a digital and trade only guy.

Patton
06-21-2011, 07:05 PM
I think I'm the only person here who adores Final Crisis.
I just read it and loved it. I didn't get all of it, but I loved it.

Phantom Eagle
06-21-2011, 07:10 PM
I think the biggest problem with events like these is that people try to follow them day-and-date, instead of just reading them at their leisure, and then feel like they are being "forced" to buy every book that relates to the event. I read most of this stuff in library trades, months if not years after they happen, so I'm not very concerned with spoilers, I don't feel like I have to read every issue in the correct order as soon as it comes out, and I feel like I get a more complete picture of the entirety of the event and the effect it has on the world at large.

So Sentry flew off into space and you don't know where he went without reading Mighty Avengers? When all the trades come out, read them all and fill in the blanks. Did it kill you to not know? So Swordsman disappears from Thunderbolts and you have no idea what happened to him without seeing Normie kill him New Avengers (or wherever it happened)? Did it kill me not to know what happened to Swordsman? Not really. When I saw the scene in the appropriate issue, I just went, "Oh, so that's what happened to him. Cool. Too bad for that fucker, but I hated him, anyway."

I also think a lot of these Best & Worst lists are complete shit, and do little more than fill up some blogger's need to critique the kind of writing they themselves are not capable of producing.

Phantom Eagle
06-21-2011, 07:22 PM
52, all three Crisis events and Secret Wars on the Best list? In the words of Comic Book Guy: "puh-lease, worst events ever".

52 was ridiculously contrived. More like a year long ad for some of the lamest characters in the entire line, and some of the weakest characterization of said characters ever produced. Like calling Marvel Premiere a crossover event book, and putting it out weekly, without even the level of craft one would find in Marvel Premiere.

If the Crisis events were so great, why did they have to have a Crisis to fix the Crisis created by the Crisis?

Secret Wars, while beloved by the generation of readers that came after mine, was the first major company-wide event for my generation of Marvel readers, and came along at a time when I needed an excuse to drop out of mainstream comics. It provided one nicely.

Slewo.O
06-21-2011, 07:31 PM
52, all three Crisis events and Secret Wars on the Best list? In the words of Comic Book Guy: "puh-lease, worst events ever".

52 was ridiculously contrived. More like a year long ad for some of the lamest characters in the entire line, and some of the weakest characterization of said characters ever produced. Like calling Marvel Premiere a crossover event book, and putting it out weekly, without even the level of craft one would find in Marvel Premiere.

If the Crisis events were so great, why did they have to have a Crisis to fix the Crisis created by the Crisis?

Secret Wars, while beloved by the generation of readers that came after mine, was the first major company-widest event for my generation of Marvel readers, and came along at a time when I needed an excuse to drop out of mainstream comics. It provided one nicely.

http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/3/3c/Joker_7.jpg

Phantom Eagle
06-21-2011, 07:37 PM
Secret Invasion on the Worst list? A list that doesn't include Black September, Plasm, or every Image or Valiant event ever concocted? Sure. Tell me another tale.

Secret Invasion dovetailed nicely with the events that preceded it and followed it, and there were great moments of characterization of the Skrulls in New Avengers, Mighty Avengers and Avengers: The Initiative. I wasn't buying MA or A: TI when the event came out, but I didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy those titles immediately, or somehow cheated by not having them, or the need to whine about how I was missing something. I read them in library trades later, and even picked up a few MA trades way after the fact because I enjoyed them so much.

Oh, day-and-date readers. How I laugh at your pain....

Phantom Eagle
06-21-2011, 07:41 PM
All this talk about House of M makes me want to point out to those who may not have picked this up yet that DC is having their own little House of M with Flashpoint. (Not a spoiler, I'm just conveying what the first few pages already show you.) The tie-ins I've read so far have been a blast. I would recommend Flashpoint to anyone who might be curious to see a big alternate universe DCU event, a la House of M, how that might turn out. Also, if my general hunches pan out on how Flashpoint leads into the DCU reboot, there might be even more House of M parallels by the time this is over.

Very astute of you to note that. I wish a few more people would notice that this event is actually supposed to reshape the universe, something that readers always clamor for and then complain about.

I salute you, sir.

Will
06-21-2011, 07:59 PM
52, all three Crisis events and Secret Wars on the Best list? In the words of Comic Book Guy: "puh-lease, worst events ever".

52 was ridiculously contrived. More like a year long ad for some of the lamest characters in the entire line, and some of the weakest characterization of said characters ever produced. Like calling Marvel Premiere a crossover event book, and putting it out weekly, without even the level of craft one would find in Marvel Premiere.

If the Crisis events were so great, why did they have to have a Crisis to fix the Crisis created by the Crisis?

Secret Wars, while beloved by the generation of readers that came after mine, was the first major company-wide event for my generation of Marvel readers, and came along at a time when I needed an excuse to drop out of mainstream comics. It provided one nicely.
That is sheer madness.


Secret Invasion dovetailed nicely with the events that preceded it and followed it, and there were great moments of characterization of the Skrulls in New Avengers, Mighty Avengers and Avengers: The Initiative. I wasn't buying MA or A: TI when the event came out, but I didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy those titles immediately, or somehow cheated by not having them, or the need to whine about how I was missing something. I read them in library trades later, and even picked up a few MA trades way after the fact because I enjoyed them so much.

Oh, day-and-date readers. How I laugh at your pain....Well there's no real set way to read events but personally speaking I actually think the singles fare better here. Mostly because you can sort them and read them in chronological order like say Secret Invasion #1 followed by T-Bolts #122, followed by FF or something so it's more flexible in that regard.

But that's not really a "date and day" thing since I already have all the issues and also read at my leisure but at the time as the books were coming out I hadn't yet read them all in any order so it felt more scatter shot to me at the time. Usually when I complain about that sort of thing it's because the main mini didn't stand alone as well as I would have liked unlike others like yourself didn't mind it.

Bill!
06-21-2011, 08:05 PM
I also think a lot of these Best & Worst lists are complete shit, and do little more than fill up some blogger's need to critique the kind of writing they themselves are not capable of producing.

Shouldn't you be on a ledge somewhere?

But really, most of these stories would not be difficult to write at all. Probably because most of them are written by editors more than creative writers.

Phantom Eagle
06-21-2011, 08:06 PM
That is sheer madness.

Well there's no real set way to read events but personally speaking I actually think the singles fare better here. Mostly because you can sort them and read them in chronological order like say Secret Invasion #1 followed by T-Bolts #122, followed by FF or something so it's more flexible in that regard.

But that's not really a "date and day" thing since I already have all the issues and also read at my leisure but at the time as the books were coming out I hadn't yet read them all in any order so it felt more scatter shot to me at the time. Usually when I complain about that sort of thing it's because the main mini didn't stand alone as well as I would have liked unlike others like yourself didn't mind it.

Try trades. It may help.

Phantom Eagle
06-21-2011, 08:07 PM
Shouldn't you be on a ledge somewhere?

But really, most of these stories would not be difficult to write at all. Probably because most of them are written by editors more than creative writers.

Oh, carrying that shit from thread to thread, huh? That's cool.

Yeah, sure, keep telling yourself that it's all editorial, and the writers didn't pitch these ideas or contribute in any way. You might want to listen to some interviews a little more closely.

Forrest
06-22-2011, 03:42 AM
I wish a few more people would notice that this event is actually supposed to reshape the universe, something that readers always clamor for and then complain about.

I salute you, sir.

Thank you. In fact, I was mostly waiting around for trades until I heard about the DC reboot. Once I found out that Flashpoint is preceding an epic DCU reboot, I hastily caught up on the end of Brightest Day and Justice League: Generation Lost and started collecting Flashpoint because if Flashpoint is more than just a fun Flash event, I want to be there when it happens. Heck, when Infinite Crisis was all the buzz, I was right there hoping that it would be this big DCU reboot, DC's way of starting an Ultimate line.

If I think an event is really going to "change everything," that usually makes me more likely to read it, especially if I love the creative team and with Flashpoint, I do. (Geoff Johns is hands down my favorite comic book writer alive today. The dude can do no wrong.)

I say, "bring it on! Let's fuck shit up! :D"

Greygor
06-22-2011, 04:54 AM
I thought i posted this yesterday, but must have forgotten to submit.

I don't think SI is even in my top ten worst Comic Book Events, and if it is it only scrapes into it because of some of the tie-ins.

Amazons Attack is up there.


I still remember Ghostbusters topping the best 25 comedies of all time at IGN. It's good, but #1?

DaveCummings
06-22-2011, 05:06 AM
The lists feel off, they list Secret Invasion as one of the worst, and Civil War as one of the best. Well, I enjoyed Secret Invasion so much more. With Civil War, if you just read the main mini, you felt like you missed alot of the real important beats, and one of the biggest payoffs wasn't even part of the mini. The concept is great though. With Secret Invasion, if you just read the book, you didn't feel like you missed anything, which made it easier to enjoy.

DaveCummings
06-22-2011, 05:09 AM
I still remember Ghostbusters topping the best 25 comedies of all time at IGN. It's good, but #1?

I'd put Ghostbusters up there. It's one if my all time favorite comedies along with Caddyshack, Blazing Saddles, and History of the World part 1

Greygor
06-22-2011, 05:18 AM
I'd put Ghostbusters up there. It's one if my all time favorite comedies along with Caddyshack, Blazing Saddles, and History of the World part 1

No denying it's up there, but it'd be fighting with

Duck Soup
The Producers
Dr. Strangelove
Young Frankenstein
Arsenic & Old Lace
Airplane
The Odd Couple
A Fish Called Wanda
This is Spinal tap
Being There
Harvey
Raising Arizona
Arthur
What's Up Doc?
Annie Hall
Manhatten
Caddyshack
Take the Money and Run
Groundhog Day

and others that are escaping my mind at the moment

web_head02
06-22-2011, 06:34 AM
I think the biggest problem with events like these is that people try to follow them day-and-date, instead of just reading them at their leisure, and then feel like they are being "forced" to buy every book that relates to the event. I read most of this stuff in library trades, months if not years after they happen, so I'm not very concerned with spoilers, I don't feel like I have to read every issue in the correct order as soon as it comes out, and I feel like I get a more complete picture of the entirety of the event and the effect it has on the world at large.

So Sentry flew off into space and you don't know where he went without reading Mighty Avengers? When all the trades come out, read them all and fill in the blanks. Did it kill you to not know? So Swordsman disappears from Thunderbolts and you have no idea what happened to him without seeing Normie kill him New Avengers (or wherever it happened)? Did it kill me not to know what happened to Swordsman? Not really. When I saw the scene in the appropriate issue, I just went, "Oh, so that's what happened to him. Cool. Too bad for that fucker, but I hated him, anyway."

I also think a lot of these Best & Worst lists are complete shit, and do little more than fill up some blogger's need to critique the kind of writing they themselves are not capable of producing.

I approve of this. I'm a day and date reader but these things don't bother me like it does others. I think people want to follow these things too closely and let their expectations ruin it for them.

Also you are probably the only person I've seen so far that didn't like 52. I personally loved it but I respect your opinion.

web_head02
06-22-2011, 06:42 AM
I still remember Ghostbusters topping the best 25 comedies of all time at IGN. It's good, but #1?

I remember this. Me and a buddy of mines were debating about it. I think Ghostbusters is in the top three on my list but they left so many movies out. I mean how do you have a best 25 comedies of all time list and don't have Dumb and Dumber on there. And not to mention Coming to America.

DaveCummings
06-22-2011, 07:46 AM
I remember this. Me and a buddy of mines were debating about it. I think Ghostbusters is in the top three on my list but they left so many movies out. I mean how do you have a best 25 comedies of all time list and don't have Dumb and Dumber on there. And not to mention Coming to America.


Coming to America, Beverly Hills Cop, and Trading Places are fantastic movies. However, I'm not a fan of Dumb and Dumber.

web_head02
06-22-2011, 07:56 AM
Coming to America, Beverly Hills Cop, and Trading Places are fantastic movies. However, I'm not a fan of Dumb and Dumber.

Fair enough but there were no Jim Carrey movies on the list. Matter of fact there were no Farrelly Brother's movies either.

DaveCummings
06-22-2011, 07:58 AM
Fair enough but there were no Jim Carrey movies on the list. Matter of fact there were no Farrelly Brother's movies either.
There are other Jim Carrey movies I'd rather put up on there. And Farrelly Brothers' I'm not too big of a fan of their movies, with probably the exception of There's Something about Mary.

web_head02
06-22-2011, 08:08 AM
There are other Jim Carrey movies I'd rather put up on there. And Farrelly Brothers' I'm not too big of a fan of their movies, with probably the exception of There's Something about Mary.

Yeah I agree. There's Something about Mary should've been on the list IMO and I'm not much of a Farrelly Brothers fan either.

Marcdachamp
06-22-2011, 08:25 AM
#3: X-Men X-ecutioner's Song. This X-Men crossover accomplished nothing. It pretty much was Mr Sinister, Appocalypse, and Stryfe chewing scenery and being ambiguous for the entire series. And no ending was more unsatisfying then this.

I have a soft spot in my heart for it, as those were a few of my first X-Men comics ever and Stryfe was just SO cool to me as a kid. Hell, I still love his look. My Stryfe Superhero Squad figure is sitting on my radio battling Cable and Deadpool.