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View Full Version : Bill Maher and Jane Lynch Give Dramatic Reading of Weiner’s Dirty Facebook Messages



The Hodag
06-11-2011, 01:26 AM
I always hope for these things to be a little less vanilla, a little more "Keith P.", but there's still some good stuff there:

http://gawker.com/5810967/bill-maher-and-jane-lynch-give-dramatic-reading-of-weiners-dirty-facebook-messages

(and thanks to Bendis for the link)

Ryan Elliott
06-11-2011, 01:36 AM
Haha holy shit.

The Hodag
06-11-2011, 02:11 AM
Was talking with my mom about a week back right as Weiner was in the denial phase, and being the dyed-in-the-wool Democrat she is, she was inclined to believe him. I told her, "Mom, there were all kinds of BS bells going off in my head when I heard the guy's press conference." And sho' nuff...

Mister Mets
06-11-2011, 07:56 AM
My Congressman, ladies and gentlemen.

Forrest
06-11-2011, 10:32 AM
Wow!

:rofl:

Oh dear God, that was funny! Much funnier than I would have anticipated.

dasNdanger
06-11-2011, 10:38 AM
:lol:


That is so...embarrassing.




das

Ryan_ZOOM_Turner
06-11-2011, 10:39 AM
Haha

Kirblar
06-11-2011, 11:38 AM
And people wonder why the Democrats are throwing him over a cliff. :lol:

The Hodag
06-11-2011, 12:46 PM
I've started listening to Dan Savage's podcast off and on in the last few years, and while I haven't gotten to recent episodes where he might comment on the Weiner situation, I know Dan's generally anti-monogamy. And his argument is pretty persuasive: it simply doesn't work in practice. So many failed marriages, so many unsatisfying sex lives for married people.

He often argues for ways that open relationships or just the occasional "letting your lover off the leash for a week" can make for happier lives. And I can't help but wonder if this could've been the case with Weiner? That he lied was fucking stupid, but it's what people instinctively do when they get caught, but the crime of "lust" seems more and more benign to me. The body gets horny. You keep that repressed long enough and you'll start to do stupid things. So maybe we need to start adjusting society to suit our biological impulses a bit more.

That said, I hear talk that Weiner might've been in contact with a teenager. That's getting into much creepier territory, but the larger conversation about monogamy and sexual repression needs to be had. While it's amusing and a little embarrassing that his texts got leaked, there's nothing in there I think indicates any kind of deviancy. It's just two horny people getting each other off (or at least getting each other excited). If monogomy wasn't considered so inherently sacred, or if it were texts he sent to his wife, would there be anything wrong with it?

Kirblar
06-11-2011, 01:01 PM
The contact with the teenager wasn't sexual. Fox News is just using that as their headline because they're a soulless propaganda machine.

The Hodag
06-11-2011, 01:22 PM
The contact with the teenager wasn't sexual. Fox News is just using that as their headline because they're a soulless propaganda machine.

I'd just picked it up floating around a ways into one of the CNN articles. Sounds okay at the moment, but you never know. People in power do get stupid.

Heroic Age Moe
06-11-2011, 01:52 PM
That's nice.

I like the ones where he wants to fuck the chick from behind cause then they can both watch his friend on the Daily Show.

Bill!
06-11-2011, 02:03 PM
I think at the end of the day, the most important part of all this was well stated by Jane and Janeane, what Weiner did had no negative impact whatsoever on your life.

Heroic Age Moe
06-11-2011, 02:14 PM
And the parallel of Clinton in there is just to funny.

Udiguhgudibuh
06-11-2011, 02:33 PM
:dunno: A NATURALLY HIGH TESTOSTERONE LEVEL is the common denominator for high achievement in certain professions-- and risky, over-sexed behavior.

Politicians, actors, trial lawyers, mega-church ministers, athletes, high-powered businessmen and many criminals have abnormally high levels of testosterone-- the hormone responsible for sex drive in both men and women. Professions that require a strong ego, persistence in the face of heavy odds, extreme self-confidence, and eagerness for confrontation attract men and women with high testosterone levels.

This high-risk hormonal factor accounts for both high achievement and high divorce rates in certain professions.

:thumb: Personally, I advocate getting experimentation with multiple sexual partners out of your system before you marry. When you find the variety pack "just doesn't work," you're ready for monogamy-- the only solution that actually does work.

Marriage is "a sacrament"-- from the same root word as sacrifice. You sacrifice acting out sexually with everyone but your spouse. You can still "look at the menu," but never stray from your main course. (When in doubt, recall Mr. Weiner.)

Mister Mets
06-11-2011, 02:37 PM
I think at the end of the day, the most important part of all this was well stated by Jane and Janeane, what Weiner did had no negative impact whatsoever on your life.
My congressman is going on a leave of absence. That has some negative impact on my life.

The Hodag
06-11-2011, 02:44 PM
My congressman is going on a leave of absence. That has some negative impact on my life.

The point, of course, is that his philandering (or flirting) had no negative impact in and of itself. It's only society's freak-out reaction to it that's led to him having to do a leave of absence.

Heroic Age Moe
06-11-2011, 03:01 PM
My congressman is going on a leave of absence. That has some negative impact on my life.

And he consistently lied for a couple weeks. Orchestrated lies no less.

The Hodag
06-11-2011, 03:22 PM
And he consistently lied for a couple weeks. Orchestrated lies no less.

Yeah, the lying fucking sucks. We need to work the puritanism out of our society so it won't be anymore terrifying to us when a politician turns out to like sex than when a Hollywood type does. Treating this like it's a capital offense is ridiculous and leads to politicians have to cower and lie as if they've committed a capital offense.

Bill!
06-11-2011, 03:54 PM
And he consistently lied for a couple weeks. Orchestrated lies no less.

Yeah, a middle aged married man didn't want everyone to find out he'd been sending pictures of his wang to other women and having explicit conversations with them over the internet. Shocking.

If you don't want politicians to lie about embarrassing personal stuff, don't drag embarrassing personal stuff (which has nothing to do with their job) out in the open and blast it on the airwaves.

Bill!
06-11-2011, 03:57 PM
And just for the record, why do people only expect politicians to be moral and honest when it comes to talking about sex?

Ryan Elliott
06-11-2011, 03:58 PM
And he consistently lied for a couple weeks. Orchestrated lies no less.

The irony here is...palpable.

Udiguhgudibuh
06-11-2011, 04:03 PM
Yeah, the lying fucking sucks. We need to work the puritanism out of our society so it won't be anymore terrifying to us when a politician turns out to like sex than when a Hollywood type does. Treating this like it's a capital offense is ridiculous and leads to politicians have to cower and lie as if they've committed a capital offense.

:scared: This isn't really about puritanism-- it's about total lack of judgement. Sex is not an isolated part of life; it's fundamental. What else is bent about Mr. Weiner? This isn't the sort of thing that will go away if you "rub a little psychotherapy on it."

I wouldn't vote for anyone so reckless in his sex life-- because it indicates potential recklessness in many other parts of life.

Bill!
06-11-2011, 04:09 PM
I wouldn't vote for anyone so reckless in his sex life-- because it indicates potential recklessness in many other parts of life.

Does it really? How do you know this?

Ryan Elliott
06-11-2011, 04:11 PM
Does it really? How do you know this?

The emoticons told him.

Foolish Mortal
06-11-2011, 04:13 PM
Really, it's the NUDE photos that did him end. Even if he had only been doing some harmless flirting, he probably would have gotten out of this with only a few minor scrapes.

But a nude photo of his dong?? No, I don't see him getting out of this cleanly and neatly.

Udiguhgudibuh
06-11-2011, 04:14 PM
Does it really? How do you know this?

:blah: I'm a medical writer. I know stuff-- hormonal stuff. Lots of it. Hormones regulate judgement in general-- not just in your pants.

McGill
06-11-2011, 04:20 PM
that was fucking awesome.

The Hodag
06-11-2011, 04:20 PM
:scared: This isn't really about puritanism-- it's about total lack of judgement. Sex is not an isolated part of life; it's fundamental. What else is bent about Mr. Weiner? This isn't the sort of thing that will go away if you "rub a little psychotherapy on it."

It is about puritanism, I think. Because everything else we're talking about trickled down from the fact that this dude's sex drive didn't turn off when he got married. Or maybe things were alright with his wife, but he needed a change to spice things up and the overblown sanctity we place on the ritual of marriage offered no real outlet. I'm increasingly coming around to the belief that human are just being stupid to fight our biological urges with ceremonies and traditions that tell us these urges are somehow immoral.

Bill!
06-11-2011, 04:24 PM
:blah: I'm a medical writer. I know stuff-- hormonal stuff. Lots of it. Hormones regulate judgement in general-- not just in your pants.

Explain it to me professor. With certitude.

Explain to me how being a horn dog is going to affect how he feels about tax rates, universal health care, immigration reform, terrorism, etc.

Kirblar
06-11-2011, 04:33 PM
Really, it's the NUDE photos that did him end. Even if he had only been doing some harmless flirting, he probably would have gotten out of this with only a few minor scrapes.

But a nude photo of his dong?? No, I don't see him getting out of this cleanly and neatly.
Exactly. Lying + Cock Shot = death.

Udiguhgudibuh
06-11-2011, 05:04 PM
Explain it to me professor. With certitude.

Explain to me how being a horn dog is going to affect how he feels about tax rates, universal health care, immigration reform, terrorism, etc.

:nonono2: "I don't know what I was thinking of!" When this phrase (or its equivalent) is the guy's "defense," he has no defense.

An unusually high testosterone level is a primary common denominator of people in prison. (Overly high levels tend to level off at about age 35, but not always.)

Testosterone controls aggression-- sexual and otherwise. While success in any line of work requires a certain amount of deliberate aggression, it also must be balanced by rationality: clear reason for actions, and how to achieve the goal.

That's why I like Obama: he seems balanced, deliberate, articulate, and even has a keen sense of humor. (He also keeps his Johnson off the Internet.)

Udiguhgudibuh
06-11-2011, 05:17 PM
It is about puritanism, I think. Because everything else we're talking about trickled down from the fact that this dude's sex drive didn't turn off when he got married. Or maybe things were alright with his wife, but he needed a change to spice things up and the overblown sanctity we place on the ritual of marriage offered no real outlet. I'm increasingly coming around to the belief that human are just being stupid to fight our biological urges with ceremonies and traditions that tell us these urges are somehow immoral.

:sad: As you know, Mr. Hodag, this means your engagement to my daughter is clearly off.

I trust Mr. Weiner took his future Mrs. Weiner for a thorough test drive before he married her. The man broke his solemn oath. The rules are: (1) divorce first, (2) have an affair after the divorce.

Mr. Weiner went to law school, right? He should know this stuff.

Bill!
06-11-2011, 05:22 PM
:sad: As you know, Mr. Hodag, this means your engagement to my daughter is clearly off.

I trust Mr. Weiner took his future Mrs. Weiner for a thorough test drive before he married her. The man broke his solemn oath. The rules are: (1) divorce first, (2) have an affair after the divorce.

Mr. Weiner went to law school, right? He should know this stuff.

Affairs aren't against the law.

Heroic Age Moe
06-11-2011, 05:26 PM
Yeah, a middle aged married man didn't want everyone to find out he'd been sending pictures of his wang to other women and having explicit conversations with them over the internet. Shocking.

If you don't want politicians to lie about embarrassing personal stuff, don't drag embarrassing personal stuff (which has nothing to do with their job) out in the open and blast it on the airwaves.

And... I guess don't hold press conferences in your official office saying it was a hack as well...

I love the nuance though, and I expect it for the next inevitable episode.

haha, who am I kidding?

Foolish Mortal
06-11-2011, 07:03 PM
If you don't want politicians to lie about embarrassing personal stuff, don't drag embarrassing personal stuff (which has nothing to do with their job) out in the open and blast it on the airwaves.
Nobody forced Weiner to take a picture of his junk and send it in a email, which was a stupefyingly idiotic thing to do because anyone could have gotten hold of it and could put it up online for anyone to see within seconds.

We live in an age where tabloid crap gets big headlines. Weiner had to know this. All politicians know this.

Bill!
06-11-2011, 07:12 PM
Nobody forced Weiner to take a picture of his junk and send it in a email, which was a stupefyingly idiotic thing to do because anyone could have gotten hold of it and could put it up online for anyone to see within seconds.

We live in an age where tabloid crap gets big headlines. Weiner had to know this. All politicians know this.

But again I ask, who did it hurt? And why the fuck does anyone really care?

It's not like he propositioned a police officer or molested someone. If he didn't do anything against the law, who gives a fuck? We have more important things to worry about.

Heroic Age Moe
06-11-2011, 07:22 PM
But again I ask, who did it hurt? And why the fuck does anyone really care?

It's not like he propositioned a police officer or molested someone. If he didn't do anything against the law, who gives a fuck? We have more important things to worry about.

Did he lie about it?

Bill!
06-11-2011, 07:28 PM
Did he lie about it?

Is lying against the law? Did his lie hurt anyone?

The answer to both, is of course, no.

dasNdanger
06-11-2011, 07:47 PM
Is lying against the law? Did his lie hurt anyone?

The answer to both, is of course, no.

Of course his lie hurt people. It hurt his wife, and it hurt the voters who put their trust in him to make good decisions for them. If the man can't make good decisions in his personal life - especially being stupid enoung to put photos of his penis on line, and to put his sexual fantasies in print - you can be sure good judgment is not his strong point.

Also, adultery is still illegal in several states, though rarely prosecuted. But that really doesn't matter. His behavior was immature, reckless, and self-centered, and I can see some people not wanting such a man representing their interests anymore.


das

Heroic Age Moe
06-11-2011, 08:32 PM
Is lying against the law? Did his lie hurt anyone?

The answer to both, is of course, no.


hahahah...

Really man?

You wanna go down that route?

Bill!
06-11-2011, 08:45 PM
Lying about sexual indiscretion does not affect his constituents in the slightest. It only hurts them if they are too sensitive to deal with it. Me, I would be more concerned with actual economic and domestic issues that are crippling our nation. Weiner is a very passionate and aggressive politician, who acted strongly on his beliefs. Before we ever heard of this, he was a boon to the party and to Congress. I don't see how him sending out pictures of his dick changes his abilities to govern in the slightest.

Bill!
06-11-2011, 08:46 PM
Of course his lie hurt people. It hurt his wife, and it hurt the voters who put their trust in him to make good decisions for them. If the man can't make good decisions in his personal life - especially being stupid enoung to put photos of his penis on line, and to put his sexual fantasies in print - you can be sure good judgment is not his strong point.

Also, adultery is still illegal in several states, though rarely prosecuted. But that really doesn't matter. His behavior was immature, reckless, and self-centered, and I can see some people not wanting such a man representing their interests anymore.


das

People say that shit all the time. Can't make a good decision in his personal life, he's probably a shitty leader, but you know what? History has proven that to be total bunk.

Heroic Age Moe
06-11-2011, 09:17 PM
Lying about sexual indiscretion does not affect his constituents in the slightest. It only hurts them if they are too sensitive to deal with it. Me, I would be more concerned with actual economic and domestic issues that are crippling our nation. Weiner is a very passionate and aggressive politician, who acted strongly on his beliefs. Before we ever heard of this, he was a boon to the party and to Congress. I don't see how him sending out pictures of his dick changes his abilities to govern in the slightest.

Awesome.

Udiguhgudibuh
06-13-2011, 08:32 AM
:shock: Weiner, please pull out!

Not only is this incident an embarrassing distraction from urgent business in the US, it's convincing foreigners that our government is as decadent as the ancient Romans'.

The Hodag
06-13-2011, 09:06 AM
Like I said, unless anything seriously illegal emerges from Weiner's "scandal", I'm pretty much with advice columnist Dan Savage on this one. From Savage's column, a few days ago when Weiner hadn't fully fessed up:


If David "Vitter the Shitter" Vitter could beat a prostitution rap and continue to pimp himself as a "family values" candidate and still manage to get his rashy ass reelected in a red state, Weiner should be able to keep his meat in his seat. But it's time for Weiner to come clean, admit the pics are his, and confess to the crime of having a dick, a cell phone, and internet access. Can we have an adult conversation about this? Weiner, unlike Vitter, broke no laws. He didn't do anything with his dick, phone, and internet access that millions of his fellow Americans aren't also doing. He got a few online thrills, he sent out a few pics, he drained his sack sitting in front of his computer. This is part of the new normal, people, just another one of the ways technology is impacting and shaping our lives.

While I hope Weiner comes clean, I hope comes out swinging: He didn't do anything wrong, he didn't do anything millions of other Americans aren't also doing, he didn't break any laws. His privacy has been invaded. He's being attacked. He is the victim here. And if doing what Weiner has done disqualifies a person from public life, there won't be anyone qualified to be public life in ten years time save the Amish.

Now here's what I hope the legally married congressman doesn't do: confess to having a problem, blame "sex addiction," check into the Tiger Woods Memorial Sex/Career Rehabilitation Center, resurface a month later Dr. Drew's couch looking contrite, and apologize to the American people for being one of them.

Alas, seems like this is veering exactly where Savage feared. His follow-up:


By checking into rehab—by pretending that it's him, and not the culture, that has a problem with sex—Weiner is sharpening the blade on the guillotine to which he's been dragged.

And somehow "Vitter the Shitter" is still a senator.

(Psst... Anthony? If you're going to resign, why not kick some GOP ass on your way out the door? Do it for old time's sake: call a press conference and announce that you're prepared to resign so long as David Vitter resigns at the same time you do. That'll instantly shift the entire discussion to Vitter's behavior—he's the "family values" douche who actually broke the law along with his marital vows (and placed calls to an escort service from the floor of the House)—and it'll force the media to focus on the hypocrisy of rightwingers calling on you to resign while refusing to even discuss Vitter the Shitter.)

UPDATE: A few of the comments can be summed up like this: "But Weiner lied! He has to resign! Because he lied!"

Am I the only one who remembers this: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky."

Clinton lied to a grand jury, to his cabinet, to members of Congress, to every reporter on earth. He lied to the whole world. And we concluded—the American people, the same people who don't want Weiner to resign—that there are certain things a man has a right to lie about. When someone cruelly invades your privacy and asks you a question they have no business asking and answering honestly would inflict pain on your loved ones—greatly magnifying the pain your indiscretion would inflict by itself—and a "no comment" or an obfuscation or a non-denial denial would be taken as tantamount to an admission/confirmation, you have a right to lie.

I mean, does anyone believe that it wouldn't have been better for Mrs. Weiner and the little Weiner growing inside her—the same persons whose welfare the handwringers claim they're most concerned with—if Weiner had gotten away with his lie?

Udiguhgudibuh
06-14-2011, 12:37 PM
:blah: Clinton not being removed from office should not be used as justification for bad behavior by Mr. Weiner.
Sure there are degrees of badness, and Clinton went from lying to his wife and constituents, to lying UNDER OATH! That's rock bottom.

Yes, your Mr. Savage is an entertaining, highly-verbal word slinger-- but that's a minimal requirement. Entertaining and wise would be better. I'm not shy about requiring that elected officials should be held to some standard of ethical behavior.

:nonono2: Anyone who "has to" lie about something has a major problem. I wouldn't vote for such a person-- or hang out with them. But that's apparently just me.


:superman: "I have the strength of armies, for my heart is pure."

Mister Mets
06-14-2011, 02:37 PM
And just for the record, why do people only expect politicians to be moral and honest when it comes to talking about sex?We should expect them to be moral and honest at most times, frankly.

Obviously, there would be an exception in the demand for total honesty when it comes to national security secrets, and that type of stuff.


Is lying against the law? Did his lie hurt anyone?

The answer to both, is of course, no.His lies arguably hurt the reputations of his detractors who were reporting the truth.

Bill!
06-14-2011, 02:39 PM
I say, let him stay in office, and let his constituents figure it out in November. Honestly, he doesn't represent anybody but the people of Queens. So who are we to say if he should stay or go ultimately? If they want to vote him out, then let them do it.

The Hodag
06-14-2011, 03:40 PM
I believe Obama publicly said Wiener should step down, so I expect that will pretty much be the end of things.

cmoney
06-14-2011, 03:48 PM
I say, let him stay in office, and let his constituents figure it out in November. Honestly, he doesn't represent anybody but the people of Queens. So who are we to say if he should stay or go ultimately? If they want to vote him out, then let them do it.

Correct.

And, really, rehab? For what? What a fucking circus.

jamestolliver
06-14-2011, 04:52 PM
:shock: Weiner, please pull out!

Not only is this incident an embarrassing distraction from urgent business in the US, it's convincing foreigners that our government is as decadent as the ancient Romans'.

I think Silvio Berlusconi is doing a good enough job being decadent by himself and he's in Rome! Also see: Dominique Strauss-Kahn.

Udiguhgudibuh
06-15-2011, 05:21 AM
I say, let him stay in office, and let his constituents figure it out in November. Honestly, he doesn't represent anybody but the people of Queens. So who are we to say if he should stay or go ultimately? If they want to vote him out, then let them do it.

:shifty: Yes, only Mr. Weiner's constituents will decide on whether or not he remains in office, but Weiner's votes affect the entire US-- you and me. Weiner's effectiveness in congress will be close to zero because all anyone will be thinking about is his hyperactive libido. The man can no longer be effective.

Bill!
06-15-2011, 05:27 AM
The man can no longer be effective because too many people need to get a grip.

Matt Jay
06-15-2011, 05:49 AM
Best Practices

Best way to make Weiner story go away is for new prominent Democrat to tell him to resign each day. Ideally early in each news cycle.

—Josh Marshall

Gordon Chumway
06-15-2011, 06:03 AM
Whenever I hear people talking about this guy I hear J.J.Jameson saying " what are the odds, a guy named Otto Octavius ends up with 8 limbs"

Foolish Mortal
06-15-2011, 06:05 AM
Again people, the Democrats wanting him gone has nothing to do with him lying about sexting, they want him gone because of NAKED DONG.

bachman
06-15-2011, 06:20 AM
Lying about sexual indiscretion does not affect his constituents in the slightest. It only hurts them if they are too sensitive to deal with it. Me, I would be more concerned with actual economic and domestic issues that are crippling our nation. Weiner is a very passionate and aggressive politician, who acted strongly on his beliefs.

Yeah he did!

Udiguhgudibuh
06-16-2011, 12:43 PM
:nonono2: "I don't know what I was thinking of!" When this phrase (or its equivalent) is the guy's "defense," he has no defense.

An unusually high testosterone level is a primary common denominator of people in prison. (Overly high levels tend to level off at about age 35, but not always.)

Testosterone controls aggression-- sexual and otherwise. While success in any line of work requires a certain amount of deliberate aggression, it also must be balanced by rationality: clear reason for actions, and how to achieve the goal.

That's why I like Obama: he seems balanced, deliberate, articulate, and even has a keen sense of humor. (He also keeps his Johnson off the Internet.)


:dunno: "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" (in English, "after it, therefore because of it") is the philosophical logical fallacy commonly used to explain why people "in power" misbehave-- often sexually, foolishly, and for corrupt monetary gain.

:?: How's that? These three factors are very connected: (1) over-sized ego, (2) high testosterone level, and (3) extreme drive to achieve.

So what? In politics, show business, or business in general, high levels of achievement will also be accompanied by high levels of misbehavior-- sexual misbehavior being the most "notorious."


SUMMARY
It isn't high achievement that leads to misbehavior. BOTH stem from the same causes: high testosterone level and resultant drive to achieve.
According to Larry King (how's that for documentation?), Weiner's misbehavior was a continuation of his similar high school and college misbehavior. Sad, really. The fatal flaw.

Ben
06-16-2011, 02:54 PM
:dunno: "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" (in English, "after it, therefore because of it") is the philosophical logical fallacy commonly used to explain why people "in power" misbehave-- often sexually, foolishly, and for corrupt monetary gain.

:?: How's that? These three factors are very connected: (1) over-sized ego, (2) high testosterone level, and (3) extreme drive to achieve.

So what? In politics, show business, or business in general, high levels of achievement will also be accompanied by high levels of misbehavior-- sexual misbehavior being the most "notorious."


SUMMARY
It isn't high achievement that leads to misbehavior. BOTH stem from the same causes: high testosterone level and resultant drive to achieve.A
According to Larry King (how's that for documentation?), Weiner's misbehavior was a continuation of his similar high school and college misbehavior. Sad, really. The fatal flaw.In this case, whether it's causation or correlation is irrelevant.

Udiguhgudibuh
06-16-2011, 07:04 PM
In this case, whether it's causation or correlation is irrelevant.

:dunno: Well, yes: whatever the cause, the effect is/was the same. The ancient Greeks would have simply called it "hubris"-- the fatal flaw of overweening pride or self-confidence that leads to downfall. Today, I think it's probably attributed to an abnormally high testosterone level. Too bad. Hearing replays of Mr. Weiner's highly effective and theatrical speeches in Congress, it is a damned shame that he dragged his penis into it. That's what killed him.

Bill!
06-16-2011, 08:28 PM
Oh my god enough with the diagnostics.