Justice League: Dark (Possible Post-Flashpoint Spoilers?)

[TomatoSurprise]

Per Bleeding Cool, it seems as if the post-Flashpoint reconstruction is creeping out of the woodwork. (http://bcool.bz/mi6YBK)

Putting aside the irony of the post-Flashpoint era literally being called Dark. it's nice to see that the JLA will apparently be allowed to tell its own, consistent stories for a stretch. We don't really have much to go on, here, but I'm hoping the relaunch means that some of the Flashpoint cast (Cyborg? The Outsider?) jump on board for the relative long haul. Robinson has really dissapointed me on JLA, so I hope another writer gets their shot at this.

So, Gailverse: what do you think Dark will entail, both inside and independent of the JLA, and how do you hope the aftermath of Flashpoint plays out?

Tomato

EDIT: And apparently, we'll find out on June 11th. (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/05/23/dc-comics-august-2011-flashpoint/)

[Thequeerjock]

Like I said, if Cyborg isn't front and center in a post-Flashpoint JLA, I will be shocked.

[KirbyKrackle]

I really hope this is the project that Geoff Johns and Grant Morrison are going to be working on together.

[Spiffy]

BAD Memories of "Dark Avengers" are coming to the forefront of my mind. Bad, bad memories, and if this is similar a really bad taste in my mouth to match.

[Corrina]

Let's see...Brightest Day wasn't a very happy event. So maybe "Dark" will be the opposite?

Nah.

Years ago, after Identity Crisis & Infinite Crisis, there were statements from DC how all this dark stuff had to happen for the DCU to get brighter again, tone-wise.

Still waiting on that one. Morrison would kinda be the exception in a lot of ways.

[Spiffy]

So I guess we get "Dark". Followed maybe by "Darkest Night" (oh wait, didn't we have that already?). Then maybe "Dark Crisis". Then perhaps "Darkpoint". Quickly followed by "Infinite Darkness". And then maybe a little "The Death of Someone Dark".

[Thequeerjock]

Probably the return of Darkseid.

[RobStaeger]

"Dark" could just as easily be a code-word for the radio silence surrounding these books -- they've got to call them something, so they call them Dark internally until they're ready to announce the true title.

Or, fingers crossed, the JLA are all transformed into delicious dark chocolate.

[TomatoSurprise]

Is it too idealistic to hope that this event is named referentially, and really will usher in a brighter era for the DCU (like BD should've?) Similar to how JLA returned to both old roots and new horizons under Morrison, could this signal both an embrace of the classic heroes and a move towards new ones. with a slightly lighter tone? Could DC be staring over the fence at Marvel's connectivity between film, TV, and comics and wanting to make a more quality, consistent, non-convoluted product across the board?

Re: KirbyKrackle

Me, too.

Re: Corrina

It'd be interesting to see those statements. Could you find them again? I got into comics relatively recently, but even I can see the steep decline into senseless gore and sexual violence for pathos that has, by and large, plagued DC like a bad cold since Identity Crisis. Was there ever a consistent push to move away from this, or have it be the foreboding second act to an actually optimistic third one?

Re: Thequeerjock

I'd really love it if most of the Titans graduated to the JLA, so Titans can stop being so angst-y and start being fun again. I like Cyborg, so I hope he can usher this trend in.

Re: Spiffy

Your comment gave me the faintest hope that this event focuses on the now-defunct Simon Dark. Yeah, right.

Tomato

[Shurato2099]

Is it too idealistic to hope that this event is named referentially, and really will usher in a brighter era for the DCU (like BD should've?) Similar to how JLA returned to both old roots and new horizons under Morrison, could this signal both an embrace of the classic heroes and a move towards new ones. with a slightly lighter tone? Could DC be staring over the fence at Marvel's connectivity between film, TV, and comics and wanting to make a more quality, consistent, non-convoluted product across the board?

... Naaah! It's DC, they'll screw it up in post.

[ScandalSavage]

Dark is probably just a reference to the blackout DC has on post Flashpoint stuff. I believe the JLA we'll see will be very close to the original roster and be the tent poles of the movie franchises - GL/Hal, Flash/Barry, Supes, Bats. I'm going to also toss in J'onn and Wonder Woman (who will probably won't get her own movie before appearing in a JLA film). They'll be a few more team members to offset the white dudes who will all be getting movies.

[Flamebird]

Maybe it'll be written by Morrison and each copy will come with it's own blacklight; as the only way to read it.

Hmm. . .

That'd be kind of cool, now that I think about it. ;)

[Hugin]

Dark is probably just a reference to the blackout DC has on post Flashpoint stuff. I believe the JLA we'll see will be very close to the original roster and be the tent poles of the movie franchises - GL/Hal, Flash/Barry, Supes, Bats. I'm going to also toss in J'onn and Wonder Woman (who will probably won't get her own movie before appearing in a JLA film). They'll be a few more team members to offset the white dudes who will all be getting movies.I don't think I can dispute your guess about races, unfortunately.
Bruce, Diana, and Clark are guaranteed. They're the big 3 and with the current lineup having none of them, I don't think it's possible for the next run not to include them all. That leaves the Flash(who has to be a white male, sadly) and the Green Lantern as the only powersets that we can be fairly sure will show up. Now, GL might be Hal, but War of the GLs could change that. I'm picturing John Stewart as the only Green Lantern of Earth after this, with the others migrating over to their respective colors. Now, if that'll stick through Flashpoint I don't know, but if it does it means we'll get either Yellow Lantern Hal or Green Lantern John, which would be a splash of color. There's also the +2(or 3, or 4, or 79, but I like teams of 7), which seems likely will include Cyborg.

It's especially annoying since we could almost field an entire team of minority race characters and still hit the high points of the JLA at this point. Nightrunner, Steel, and John Stewart, with Vixen and Cyborg as the +2, would leave us with just a Flash and an Amazon missing.

[OzBat!]

Well, there's also Nubia and XS lurking around...

[Matt Doc Martin]

They will all be covered in chocolate.

[Patrick Gerard]

I'm thinking JLA may go for a Super Powers: Galactic Guadians-inspired line up.

Superman
Batman
Wonder Woman
Robin
Cyborg
Aquaman
Firestorm
Hawkman
Green Lantern
The Flash
Samurai

Maybe replace Samurai with someone from Big Science Team like Ultimon Alpha or Katana. Also... Maybe toss in Jayna from the Wonder Twins. (But leave out Zan; he's useless.)

[Spiffy]

Now, GL might be Hal, but War of the GLs could change that. I'm picturing John Stewart as the only Green Lantern of Earth after this, with the others migrating over to their respective colors.
I don't get any indication that John Stewart will be treated any better, or featured any more prominently, than at any other time in recent history. It may be what a segment of fandom WANTS, but really with a huge Hal Jordan based GL movie coming up? There's damn close to zero chance that THE Green Lantern coming out of any current event will be ANYBODY but Hal Jordan.

[Kevin T Brown]

Dark is probably just a reference to the blackout DC has on post Flashpoint stuff. I believe the JLA we'll see will be very close to the original roster and be the tent poles of the movie franchises - GL/Hal, Flash/Barry, Supes, Bats. I'm going to also toss in J'onn and Wonder Woman (who will probably won't get her own movie before appearing in a JLA film). They'll be a few more team members to offset the white dudes who will all be getting movies.

That's my guess as well. It gives them the oppportunity to do blacked-out covers without having to explain them now.

[Patrick Gerard]

I'm thinking JLA may go for a Super Powers: Galactic Guadians-inspired line up.

Superman
Batman
Wonder Woman
Robin
Cyborg
Aquaman
Firestorm
Hawkman
Green Lantern
The Flash
Samurai

Maybe replace Samurai with someone from Big Science Team like Ultimon Alpha or Katana. Also... Maybe toss in Jayna from the Wonder Twins. (But leave out Zan; he's useless.)

BTW, I always had exactly one use for Zan, to have him infiltrate the villains' drinking water and then have Jayna run through, tagging the villains and turning Zan to vapor, dehydrating the villains. Every editor I ever told this to found it squicky though.

[Hugin]

I don't get any indication that John Stewart will be treated any better, or featured any more prominently, than at any other time in recent history. It may be what a segment of fandom WANTS, but really with a huge Hal Jordan based GL movie coming up? There's damn close to zero chance that THE Green Lantern coming out of any current event will be ANYBODY but Hal Jordan.Spoiler warning for War of the Green Lanterns:

I'd agree with that, but look at what Ganthet said: Hal will soon be inseparable from the yellow taint, the last time time Guy wore red removing it nearly killed him, Kyle is years away from being able to handle blue, and John is wholly unsuited for indigo. That makes it sound like at least Hal and Guy will be stuck with their new rings at this point, and Kyle could choose to stick with blue. John is the only one who HAS to return to green.

[RobStaeger]

Hal will soon be inseparable from the yellow taint...

Shouldn't have squatted in the mustard.

[Dreg]

Let's see...Brightest Day wasn't a very happy event. So maybe "Dark" will be the opposite?

Nah.

Years ago, after Identity Crisis & Infinite Crisis, there were statements from DC how all this dark stuff had to happen for the DCU to get brighter again, tone-wise.

Still waiting on that one. Morrison would kinda be the exception in a lot of ways.

Yeah, a lot of talent didn't care for how Identity Crisis darkened some of the heroes, so every event since then had to have an obligatory reference to how things are getting brighter in some way. But it's really not. Sure, the heroes are mostly flawlessly virtuous individuals, but they're still in very dark and unnecessarily violent and cynical stories. Just because a hero is perfect doesn't mean the world or the story is going to be happy.

Personally, I'd rather read about flawed heroes who have bright, fun adventures. Like the Giffens-League. That's way better than perfect heroes who have dark, disturbing adventures.


BTW, I always had exactly one use for Zan, to have him infiltrate the villains' drinking water and then have Jayna run through, tagging the villains and turning Zan to vapor, dehydrating the villains. Every editor I ever told this to found it squicky though.

Pat, Zan is far more deadly than that. Notice how at any time he can turn into a bucket of water? Where the hell is that bucket coming from? Nobody knows. Zan has the ability to make a bucket materialize out of thin air. Nobody ever uses this ability to its potential. What if he could make microscopic buckets appear in Lex Luther's bloodstream? Or generate a giant bucket that falls on top of the Crysler building? He'd make the damage that a rampaging dinosaur could accomplish seem like a mercy in comparison.

[Spiffy]

That's only SPECULATION based on issues which are already out. Using "spoiler" implies you know something from unreleased issues.

[Spiffy]

Yeah, a lot of talent didn't care for how Identity Crisis darkened some of the heroes, so every event since then had to have an obligatory reference to how things are getting brighter in some way. But it's really not. Sure, the heroes are mostly flawlessly virtuous individuals, but they're still in very dark and unnecessarily violent and cynical stories. Just because a hero is perfect doesn't mean the world or the story is going to be happy.

Personally, I'd rather read about flawed heroes who have bright, fun adventures. Like the Giffens-League. That's way better than perfect heroes who have dark, disturbing adventures.



Pat, Zan is far more deadly than that. Notice how at any time he can turn into a bucket of water? Where the hell is that bucket coming from? Nobody knows. Zan has the ability to make a bucket materialize out of thin air. Nobody ever uses this ability to its potential. What if he could make microscopic buckets appear in Lex Luther's bloodstream? Or generate a giant bucket that falls on top of the Crysler building? He'd make the damage that a rampaging dinosaur could accomplish seem like a mercy in comparison.
Ah. My secret theory is that Gleek had a talent too. Gleek is the one who could project into reality things like buckets, ice scoops, and pooper scoopers to pick up after whatever Jayna was that episode.

[Spiffy]

Hal will soon be inseparable from the yellow taint...

Shouldn't have squatted in the mustard.

The appropriately pervy response, Rob, is:

[Andrew Dice Clay Mode On]"Inseparable from the yellow taint?" Dat's what she said!!! Dooooojjjjj! [/Andrew Dice Clay Mode Off]

[Hugin]

That's only SPECULATION based on issues which are already out. Using "spoiler" implies you know something from unreleased issues.Some people are trade waiting or just haven't gotten to the store recently. If the book/movie/comic came out in the past couple months, I usually spoiler anything that's important. I figure the rings are a pretty important spoiler.

[RobStaeger]

The appropriately pervy response, Rob, is:

[Andrew Dice Clay Mode On]"Inseparable from the yellow taint?" Dat's what she said!!! Dooooojjjjj! [/Andrew Dice Clay Mode Off]

Thanks, Spiff. It's been an education.

If I had it to do all over again, I'd have said "GL shouldn't've teabagged Mayor McCheese." Which, if nothing else, should lead to some absurdly specific fetish art.

[Spiffy]

Some people are trade waiting or just haven't gotten to the store recently. If the book/movie/comic came out in the past couple months, I usually spoiler anything that's important. I figure the rings are a pretty important spoiler.
1.) I think its impractical to work with the assumption that we have to be careful of trade waiters. Doing so kind of squashes free and easy discussion of current issues--topics which shouldn't have to often turn into spoiler barred minefields. Whole pages of headache inducing blocked out text... and the payoff is stuff you've been talking about for weeks or months anyway.

2.) If you feel that strongly, that's fine. But in that case you SHOULD be using actual spoiler tags. Yes, I just complained about them, but as bad as they are, they're still better than simply typing the word "spoiler" than having the "secret" a quarter of an inch away where you can't help but see it anyway. It may not deliver a literal headache the way spoiler bars sometimes can, but for those who are truly wary of spoilers... well... they might even prefer the headache.

Not trying to pick here, just hoping we all can work with similar ground rules. ;-)

[Kingsmythe]

I just wish they'd knock of the huge events. I passed on Darkest Night, Brightest Day, and am waiting for them to do Dog Day Afternoon, Mo(u)rning Becomes Electra, and Evening Shade.

I'm tired of big events, reboots, and continuity lapses, the lack of editors who actually edit.

If the Age of Apoco-Flash does what they are making it sound like, I may well be taking a few months off from comics, for the first time in years. Or most of them, anyway, as DC is like 90% of my pull list.

[Weeto]

For years, I've been advocating the idea of DC making the JLA and JSA very different in makeup and character.

I've always liked the idea of the JLA being made up of 'goody goody' characters with Superman as leader and a more cynical roster of characters led by Batman making up the JSA.

I'd want the JLA to do everything in a clean, by the book superhero style with the JSA being more involved with surveilance and detective work, covert missions and that sort of stuff. I also like the fact that the JSA has had a lot of magic users and that would be useful for undercover type missions.

I love the idea of splitting Batman and Superman in team allegiences as the current system of JLA being the first team and JSA as the second team is a bit dull. The system of a clean, zap-pop team and a dirtier, less ethical but still heroic team really appeals to me.

[Kingsmythe]

That doesn't sound at all like what I think of for the JSA. If anything, they'd be MORE squeaky clean the the JLA. What you're talking about sounds more like the Outsiders, I'd think.

[Spiffy]

Yeah. The JSA are the "legacy team" with "the tradition", even if in all of the actual fan minds, the JLA is the team we all see as the core of the DC legacy. Its just that in their timeline that's the JSA.

The Outsiders is supposed to be that team of er... well... outsiders. They've been mucked around with so much though its hard to take them seriously.

JLA vs. JSA? Simple. Space/Worldwide problems for the JLA, and more streetlevel old fashioned "caper" crimes for the JSA. Its not strictly how they've always divided things, but I think its a good way to go. It allows the JSA to also do the "Detective" type things, but doesn't strictly limit them to that. They're just not the grimy gray detectives. They're the "well be right there, Commissioner!" types.

[KirbyKrackle]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/05/31/flashpost-the-issue-one-renumbering-of-the-dc-universe/

Bleeding cool says that every title taking place in the main dcu will be renumbered and be getting a new number one along with new titles and new creative teams. Also, there will be some rebooting and continuity changes. What this means for titles like Batman Inc and Secret Six, I don't know. While these are still rumors and there wont be concrete proof of whats happening until a little while, I just hope this doesn't mess with some of my favorite books. I'm not going to worry about whats gonna happen until the time comes.

I wonder what book gail got?