The Official Wrestling Thread is the Longest Running Episodic Thread Of All Time!

[Gryphon]

Um, it used to be their BIG show. It eventually fell off, but it was a big reason WCW got a foothold in the first place.

My mistake then. I was thinking of later day wcw.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Like I wish IMPACT was good. I would love for their to be real competition to the 'E. Unfortunately I think ROH's deal is a bit too small to be a true competitor but you never know! Just having high-quality pro wrestling available in markets is a great step forward. IMPACT seems content to trot out people who are a decade too old and out of the business. I'm sorry, but while some fans still worship him I'm sick of Hulk Hogan. Everything he is, everything he says, everything he does. If he's the epitome of what you want your company to be, you have problems.

[Brad N.]

Oh fuck off.

You know things like that are ban-worthy here, right? You do it all the time too. You might want to check that temper.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Dis. Agree. Their video packages hyping their PPVs I care nothing about actually pump me up. They're brilliant and considering they're done by the guy who made ALL of the WWE classic packages it isn't surprising why they excell at this while (in my opinion) WWE falls flat.

But again, this is one thing they do right in a sea of things they do wrong.

Still think the 'E's packages are fantastic. The thing is about TNAIMPACT is that how are you going to get me to watch their packages when I don't care about their product in the least?

[Gryphon]

You know things like that are ban-worthy here, right? You do it all the time too. You might want to check that temper.

Duly noted.

[Gryphon]

TNA could be helped by diversifying their product more.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Paul Heyman isn't the answer either. While he's a great ideas man, his execution lacks at times and frankly, we've already seen and done ECW. Twice (unfortunately. Sorry, that second run annoys the shit out of me). If TNAIMPACT wants to do something, they need to do something drastic. I'm sorry but a 52-year old Sting who needs to be carried every main event should not be your champion, no matter how large his legacy is.

[ImYrWoodbury]

Some of TNA's problems are out of their hands. Mainly, Pro Wrestling isn't hot right now, and there's nothing they can do to change that. As far as the average consumer is concerned, WWE is Pro Wrestling. And look at WWE. For all the buzz the Summer of Punk has caused it has barely budged their ratings (I do think MITB did a good/well above average buyrate, but we'll see).

[Brad N.]

It looks and feels like WCW. That's a problem.

Every time I see the IMPACT ZONE and all that shit, I just feel like I'm watching WCW Saturday Night.

But that isn't what I'm talking about. I agree with all of that, but I find their video packages like the ones they air before their PPVs to be phenominal.

[Gryphon]

They have a huge roster and soem great anems but they hardly show some of the guys.

[Gryphon]

Paul Heyman isn't the answer either. While he's a great ideas man, his execution lacks at times and frankly, we've already seen and done ECW. Twice (unfortunately. Sorry, that second run annoys the shit out of me). If TNAIMPACT wants to do something, they need to do something drastic. I'm sorry but a 52-year old Sting who needs to be carried every main event should not be your champion, no matter how large his legacy is.

I will grant you that.

[Gryphon]

I wouldnt mind seeing tna introduce a hardcore division.

[Gryphon]

Some of TNA's problems are out of their hands. Mainly, Pro Wrestling isn't hot right now, and there's nothing they can do to change that. As far as the average consumer is concerned, WWE is Pro Wrestling. And look at WWE. For all the buzz the Summer of Punk has caused it has barely budged their ratings (I do think MITB did a good/well above average buyrate, but we'll see).

Well the ratings are also affected by things like dvr.

[Grift]

I mean - the "X-Division" was at least different back in 2003-2004 when TNA started, back when they were running their weekly PPV format. But even then, while different, the dudes were sloppy and all over the place, just engaging in over the top spot-fest's. And who were the stars - AJ, Daniel's, Low-Ki, Joe, Sabin, Kaz - the same guys they trot out today, 8 years later, every time they want the X division to seem important. People knock the WWE and their performers for doing the same moves all the time, and I get that, but let's be honest here, the world had already seen every combination of AJ vs or Joe vs of those group of guys 3-4 years ago. And they have been doing the same moves to each other, in similar spots, since 2004 - 2001 for some the guys who started against each other in RoH.

Just look at that video of AJ and Daniel's. Holy god - just the two of them, fighting again, in TNA, is enough to make me not want to click it. Even if you threw in a 3rd guy, seen it from TNA a million times. And that was TNA's greatest mistake - they never struck while their iron was hot and bothered to create intrigue and depth to the X-division wrestlers, other then flippy flips and 17 guys in the ring at once. And maybe that is the x-division problem at it's core - when you scout for guys whose only saving grace is doing high spots - you often can't mold them into giving good promos, selling a compelling story inside the ring and out, or even being consistent on a definable and repeatable level. And they guys they had, that did, where are they now - a lot are either gone or in WWE. Even now, most people are on this board like a TNA guy because he was in RoH and want to see him do things that remind them of that guys time there, not because of anything TNA related. And to me, that is a marketing and brand success for RoH, not for TNA.

Forget talking about the X-Division for a while and just look at those last PPV numbers for TNA - something like 8,500...8,500!! My god that is atrocious. Their show doesn't even beat Tough Enough in ratings..fucking Tough Enough! I could name one guys on TE going into that show and yet the wrestling audience found that show, more watchable and intriguing, on a daily basis, then watching Elix Skipper return form the dead to wrestler Daniel's who is wrestling Joe who is climbing a wire to fight AJ for the 300th time...all leading to the 67th time I get to see Jerry Lynn fight RVD!!

[Gryphon]

Curt Hawkins was apparently in attendance for the EVOLVE wrestling pay-per-view in New York City last Tuesday night.

[Gryphon]

But that isn't what I'm talking about. I agree with all of that, but I find their video packages like the ones they air before their PPVs to be phenominal.

Fair enough.

[Masculine Todd]

The #1 problem with IMPACT WRESTLING (what's this TNA nonsense?) is this: they want to compete with and essentially be the new WWE so badly that they have sacrificed their identity. It's not from a lack of talent which they have in spades across the board, it's not from a lack of trying from a production standpoint, but everything about IMPACT is WWE-Light. With the exception of Sting, the top guys are all 'E drop-outs. Their attempt at production (which fails at many points) feels like they want to produce a similar product to the 'E. The focus of the company at every level is to beat and take the 'E's place, and they've ostensibly stopped being IMPACT long ago. With the exception of the X Division (which is still stale and needs a kick in the sack) the company as a whole has nothing I want from it. ROH and WWE essentially cover everything IMPACT does and do it not only much better but much more consistently.

IMPACT was their own thing 6 years ago with Joe, Styles, Daniels, Christian, Jarett and the rest. It was fun and, mainly, a DIFFERENT experience to watch it. It had an identity: we're NOT the 'E, we're IMPACT. And they gave up on it.

See, that was a fun product, and it felt relatively unique, but it certainly wasn't "build a viable alternative" level unique. Christian - and I love the guy - wasn't the star to build the company around, nor was Jarrett. Joe, Styles and Daniels had a great program around that time, but that was a decidedly midcard/upper midcard feud (with brilliant matches, mind you, but certainly not at the level of Batista/Hunter or the other big WWE '05 feuds).

I thought TNA really had something with Monty Brown around then. Of course, he was ultimately beaten by the Raven's and Christian's, and eventually snatched up by WWE. That guy seemed like someone you could start building a company around. Their booking at the time was pretty solid.


Oh fuck off.

lawl u mad dawg?

#ondatparrottip

[Gryphon]

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/tna/Mickie_Announcement_Impact_Rating_Angle_Still_Want ing_WGTT_in_TNA_Tara.html


This past Thursday's episode of TNA Impact Wrestling scored a 1.2 cable rating with 1,614,000 viewers.

- Kurt Angle has reportedly been talking more about TNA bringing in former WWE Superstars Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas of late. Ring of Honor announced a few months back that they had signed the duo to contracts. Haas and Benjamin currently hold the ROH Tag Team Titles.

[Masculine Todd]

They're brilliant and considering they're done by the guy who made ALL of the WWE classic packages it isn't surprising why they excell at this while (in my opinion) WWE falls flat.


WWE promos from this year are so much better than WWE promos from, like, any point in the '90s. I don't know, different strokes, I guess.

[Gryphon]

Whatever happened to Monty Brown?

[Gryphon]

WWE promos from this year are so much better than WWE promos from, like, any point in the '90s. I don't know, different strokes, I guess.

Indeed. I feel they are better, but its personal opinion.

[Masculine Todd]

Duly noted.

Hahaha. Oh man. This has been pointed out to you several times, and you'll still be all "fuk u mang."

dont werry gripham, i wont report u dawg

[ImYrWoodbury]

But that isn't what I'm talking about. I agree with all of that, but I find their video packages like the ones they air before their PPVs to be phenominal.

I really liked the Countdown to Bound For Glory show they did last year. I'll say it until I'm blue in the face, but how great would an HBO-style 24/7: CM Punk vs John Cena be to build up Wrestlemania? Or the UFC Countdown or Primetime shows? It wouldn't have to be it's own separate show. They could just show like a 5 min clip for each guy every week on Raw leading up to SummerSlam. Even give them a week or 2 off so that they can "prepare for this, the biggest, most important match of their careers."

This is the wrong PPV to try something like that, and it's not something they should do all the time (like 2 or 3 times a year, tops). Remember the buildup to the Joe/Angle match at Lockdown? Remember how awesome that was?

[Masculine Todd]

Whatever happened to Monty Brown?

I think his sister died or something. He took over the responsibility of raising her kids.

[Gryphon]

Like I wish IMPACT was good. I would love for their to be real competition to the 'E. Unfortunately I think ROH's deal is a bit too small to be a true competitor but you never know! Just having high-quality pro wrestling available in markets is a great step forward. IMPACT seems content to trot out people who are a decade too old and out of the business. I'm sorry, but while some fans still worship him I'm sick of Hulk Hogan. Everything he is, everything he says, everything he does. If he's the epitome of what you want your company to be, you have problems.

A serious problem wiht Hogan is that he legitimately believes he is a big draw still and wants the attention focused on him.

[Brad N.]

Here's two good examples of some of their recent quality packages. They're very different from one another, but I believe they both do a good job of selling the product. Again, the shows that they're pulled from may not be good, and the matches that one of them hyped wasn't that good, but we're talking purely about the video package itself. WWE hasn't done a PPV commercial that has made me want to buy the show simply from viewing it in a LOOONG time.

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/impactwrestling#p/u/46/FnBEbLVGU5g (http://www.youtube.com/impactwrestling#p/u/46/FnBEbLVGU5g)

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/impactwrestling#p/u/75/7Vnyo14wFIs (http://www.youtube.com/impactwrestling#p/u/75/7Vnyo14wFIs)

Brilliant stuff and there are literally endless equal or better examples to choose from. Say what you will about the product but I cannot believe anyone could claim these pieces aren't top notch. I also haven't really been all that thrilled by anything WWE has put together over the last few years. Sahadi is the guy behind my favorite WWE videos ever - those Desire videos. He's still working magic in TNA while WWE's video packages feel plain and lifeless.

[Gryphon]

I think his sister died or something. He took over the responsibility of raising her kids.
Oh thats sad.

[Gryphon]

Brilliant stuff and there are literally endless equal or better examples to choose from. Say what you will about the product but I cannot believe anyone could claim these pieces aren't top notch. I also haven't really been all that thrilled by anything WWE has put together over the last few years. Sahadi is the guy behind my favorite WWE videos ever - those Desire videos. He's still working magic in TNA while WWE's video packages feel plain and lifeless.

I really liked the video package for undertaker/HHH II at mania this year. But then again I am a fan of Mark Collie's music so......

[joeAR]

Here's two good examples of some of their recent quality packages. They're very different from one another, but I believe they both do a good job of selling the product. Again, the shows that they're pulled from may not be good, and the matches that one of them hyped wasn't that good, but we're talking purely about the video package itself. WWE hasn't done a PPV commercial that has made me want to buy the show simply from viewing it in a LOOONG time.

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/impactwrestling#p/u/46/FnBEbLVGU5g (http://www.youtube.com/impactwrestling#p/u/46/FnBEbLVGU5g)

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/impactwrestling#p/u/75/7Vnyo14wFIs (http://www.youtube.com/impactwrestling#p/u/75/7Vnyo14wFIs)


Those are really well done. Granted seeing Hogan at the end of the first one killed it for me. "This is how we do!" Yes grandpa Hogan.

[Gryphon]

I really liked the video package for undertaker/HHH II at mania this year. But then again I am a fan of Mark Collie's music so......
How can you not like this song?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Los0g9Et7Ow

[Gryphon]

Those are really well done. Granted seeing Hogan at the end of the first one killed it for me. "This is how we do!" Yes grandpa Hogan.

Hogan was the best and worst thing to happen to pro wrestling.

[Grift]

But the only person making money is Spike. They're seeing a return from ad revenue and a relatively cheap program that they hardly sink much into.

TNA was never established to simply exist in the margin. Their goals were ambitious and, more than likely, unrealistic. They wanted to fill a vacuum left by one major wrestling conglomorate, and there were numerous former WCW talent and relatively talented indie guys pre-ROH lying around to do it. There were absolutely designed to take a large slice of the wrestling market. Both Jarretts discussed this at length. The idea was to use the weekly PPVs as consistent, first-run "pilots" to shop to networks.

I mean, you talk about things costing money, but they've sunk millions into rebranding, the Times Square ad campaigns, the "Foley Comes" shtick in late '08 (that had nationally aired commercials on most stations), Hogan/Bischoff and the Monday Night "Wars" 2.0, etc. They've allocated major (Panda) money into expansion. Unfortunately, those running things are inept and use those funds for ill-conceived endeavors. Hell, they spend stupid amounts of money amassing the former WCW production crew. They've brought in big name talent from the past. It's not an issue of lack-of-capitol (though, admittedly, they have significanly less available money than WWE). It's not exposure. It appears (and this is all conjecture, and I'm barely an internet pundit) that one of, if not the primary problem plaguing them is creating a product that connects with people. They have the money to make something big. They're NOT an entity that's made simply to catch market runoff.

Well, I understand where your coming from, but a lot of their history just doesn't agree. They didn't buy any of the expensive or big WCW names lying around when they were running their weekly PPV's. The biggest names they had were Jarret, Raven, Douglas, and Road Dogg for awhile. The majority of their roster were unknown guys who wrestled a style that almost no casual viewers were familiar with. The biggest clue they were setup to run in the margin is that they were conceived as a weekly PPV company and ran that way for almost 2 years. The only way you would even know about TNA as a weekly PPV show was if you were already a wrestling a fan. So if you were a fan, but wanted a different style of wrestling, different looking wrestlers, a different ring (eventually), then NWA TNA was for you. That mindset though is not one of creating a company to go out and grab the attention of the public, the causal viewer, and create a force to rival WWE. Even the Jarret's sold out their interests once more money came in.

[joeAR]

Oh fuck off.


Seriously? Wow, well put and thanks for offering so much to this thread.

[Grift]

The #1 problem with IMPACT WRESTLING (what's this TNA nonsense?) is this: they want to compete with and essentially be the new WWE so badly that they have sacrificed their identity. It's not from a lack of talent which they have in spades across the board, it's not from a lack of trying from a production standpoint, but everything about IMPACT is WWE-Light. With the exception of Sting, the top guys are all 'E drop-outs. Their attempt at production (which fails at many points) feels like they want to produce a similar product to the 'E. The focus of the company at every level is to beat and take the 'E's place, and they've ostensibly stopped being IMPACT long ago. With the exception of the X Division (which is still stale and needs a kick in the sack) the company as a whole has nothing I want from it. ROH and WWE essentially cover everything IMPACT does and do it not only much better but much more consistently.
IMPACT was their own thing 6 years ago with Joe, Styles, Daniels, Christian, Jarett and the rest. It was fun and, mainly, a DIFFERENT experience to watch it. It had an identity: we're NOT the 'E, we're IMPACT. And they gave up on it.

I agree with a lot of this.

[Gryphon]

Beyond the matt is on tonight and Ive never seen it. Is it worth watching?

[Masculine Todd]

I mean - the "X-Division" was at least different back in 2003-2004 when TNA started, back when they were running their weekly PPV format. But even then, while different, the dudes were sloppy and all over the place, just engaging in over the top spot-fest's. And who were the stars - AJ, Daniel's, Low-Ki, Joe, Sabin, Kaz - the same guys they trot out today, 8 years later, every time they want the X division to seem important. People knock the WWE and their performers for doing the same moves all the time, and I get that, but let's be honest here, the world had already seen every combination of AJ vs or Joe vs of those group of guys 3-4 years ago. And they have been doing the same moves to each other, in similar spots, since 2004 - 2001 for some the guys who started against each other in RoH.

Just look at that video of AJ and Daniel's. Holy god - just the two of them, fighting again, in TNA, is enough to make me not want to click it. Even if you threw in a 3rd guy, seen it from TNA a million times. And that was TNA's greatest mistake - they never struck while their iron was hot and bothered to create intrigue and depth to the X-division wrestlers, other then flippy flips and 17 guys in the ring at once. And maybe that is the x-division problem at it's core - when you scout for guys whose only saving grace is doing high spots - you often can't mold them into giving good promos, selling a compelling story inside the ring and out, or even being consistent on a definable and repeatable level. And they guys they had, that did, where are they now - a lot are either gone or in WWE. Even now, most people are on this board like a TNA guy because he was in RoH and want to see him do things that remind them of that guys time there, not because of anything TNA related. And to me, that is a marketing and brand success for RoH, not for TNA.

Forget talking about the X-Division for a while and just look at those last PPV numbers for TNA - something like 8,500...8,500!! My god that is atrocious. Their show doesn't even beat Tough Enough in ratings..fucking Tough Enough! I could name one guys on TE going into that show and yet the wrestling audience found that show, more watchable and intriguing, on a daily basis, then watching Elix Skipper return form the dead to wrestler Daniel's who is wrestling Joe who is climbing a wire to fight AJ for the 300th time...all leading to the 67th time I get to see Jerry Lynn fight RVD!!

This is pretty much where I was going with my comments last page. Spot-heavy, high-flying, face-paced matches should absolutely be a midcard focus of the company. The X-Division would ideally be a fun, undercard attraction that can only be found on TNA programming, but it isn't the thing you place as the fulcrum of your promotion.

You need guys who fans can relate to/be captivated by. You need talent who can carry themselves like stars. You need strong booking to create the optimal conditions for said talent to get over as stars. Spotfests are great, but they're nothing more than a third match novelty.

Another thing that's grating about TNA (SURPRISE!!!) is their willingness to draw on their continuity constantly. They play their "vaunted past" card for these X-Division themed PPVs or reunion shows, which would be fine if the feuds actually had some semblance of history. AJ/Daniels, beyond a really fun series of matches with Joe in '05, are just guys who collided with each other off-and-on over the last nine years of TNA and occasionally in RoH. RVD/Lynn had history in '99. It's this revisionist, backwards-minded, nostalgic mentality they have. Instead of building new rivalries, they try to capture this misty-eyed, romanticized portrait of the past, and in doing so, assume that there are more than 9,000 people who are willing to pay for it.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Ooof...that awful green screen took me right out of that Bound for Glory promo. And Hogan at the end...ugh.

The Daniels/Styles one wasn't bad...but it just feels odd. I don't know what it is. I mean, it looks good but there's something off about it.

[Gryphon]

Seriously? Wow, well put and thanks for offering so much to this thread.

A friend died and Im still dealing with it.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Beyond the matt is on tonight and Ive never seen it. Is it worth watching?

One T. And yes, absolutely.

[Gryphon]

This is pretty much where I was going with my comments last page. Spot-heavy, high-flying, face-paced matches should absolutely be a midcard focus of the company. The X-Division would ideally be a fun, undercard attraction that can only be found on TNA programming, but it isn't the thing you place as the fulcrum of your promotion.

You need guys who fans can relate to/be captivated by. You need talent who can carry themselves like stars. You need strong booking to create the optimal conditions for said talent to get over as stars. Spotfests are great, but they're nothing more than a third match novelty.

Another thing that's grating about TNA (SURPRISE!!!) is their willingness to draw on their continuity constantly. They play their "vaunted past" card for these X-Division themed PPVs or reunion shows, which would be fine if the feuds actually had some semblance of history. AJ/Daniels, beyond a really fun series of matches with Joe in '05, are just guys who collided with each other off-and-on over the last nine years of TNA and occasionally in RoH. RVD/Lynn had history in '99. It's this revisionist, backwards-minded, nostalgic mentality they have. Instead of building new rivalries, they try to capture this misty-eyed, romanticized portrait of the past, and in doing so, assume that there are more than 9,000 people who are willing to pay for it.

Dont forget Kurt angle saying he has never beaten sting.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

A friend died and Im still dealing with it.

,

[Gryphon]

One T. And yes, absolutely.

thasnks for the spelling. I actually wanst sure how to spell it.


Ill give it a watch then.

I just finished reading the hardcore diaries.

[Masculine Todd]

I really liked the Countdown to Bound For Glory show they did last year. I'll say it until I'm blue in the face, but how great would an HBO-style 24/7: CM Punk vs John Cena be to build up Wrestlemania? Or the UFC Countdown or Primetime shows? It wouldn't have to be it's own separate show. They could just show like a 5 min clip for each guy every week on Raw leading up to SummerSlam. Even give them a week or 2 off so that they can "prepare for this, the biggest, most important match of their careers."

Yeah, that'd be awesome, namely because the Cena/Punk rivalry is one predicated on ideological clashes. This feud will deteriorate quickly if it's relegated to trading finishers and, one week, someone bashes the other with a chair.

The fondly-remembered Austin/Rock 'Mania XVII video package featured that segment where Rock and Austin sat down for a discussion, which was moderated by JR. They should replicate that with Punk/Cena, and allow them to speak freely (well, relatively so).

[Masculine Todd]

A friend died and Im still dealing with it.

That sucks, but you do this often.

[Gryphon]

Ooof...that awful green screen took me right out of that Bound for Glory promo. And Hogan at the end...ugh.

The Daniels/Styles one wasn't bad...but it just feels odd. I don't know what it is. I mean, it looks good but there's something off about it.

I found it boring.

[Gryphon]

That sucks, but you do this often.

I acknowledge my anger issues. I have to try to work on them.

[Grift]

This is pretty much where I was going with my comments last page. Spot-heavy, high-flying, face-paced matches should absolutely be a midcard focus of the company. The X-Division would ideally be a fun, undercard attraction that can only be found on TNA programming, but it isn't the thing you place as the fulcrum of your promotion.

You need guys who fans can relate to/be captivated by. You need talent who can carry themselves like stars. You need strong booking to create the optimal conditions for said talent to get over as stars. Spotfests are great, but they're nothing more than a third match novelty.

Another thing that's grating about TNA (SURPRISE!!!) is their willingness to draw on their continuity constantly. They play their "vaunted past" card for these X-Division themed PPVs or reunion shows, which would be fine if the feuds actually had some semblance of history. AJ/Daniels, beyond a really fun series of matches with Joe in '05, are just guys who collided with each other off-and-on over the last nine years of TNA and occasionally in RoH. RVD/Lynn had history in '99. It's this revisionist, backwards-minded, nostalgic mentality they have. Instead of building new rivalries, they try to capture this misty-eyed, romanticized portrait of the past, and in doing so, assume that there are more than 9,000 people who are willing to pay for it.

Cool - I respect and totally agree with that.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Another thing that bugs me that wasn't on-camera until Victory Road is TNA's track record with employee health and well-being. There are tons of articles about this (the Daphne thing has spurred a whole series on one website) but come on. You're trying to be the new WWE and YOU LET A GUY WHO IS HIGH ON HEROIN GO INTO THE RING? And then, after this happens, you SUGGEST he goes to rehab or make comments of "We'd really like him to go" instead of "It's your job if you don't." Absolute insanity to me. Abhorrent.

[Brad N.]

,

Well, at least he didn't say someone hacked his account I guess.

[Gryphon]

Yeah, that'd be awesome, namely because the Cena/Punk rivalry is one predicated on ideological clashes. This feud will deteriorate quickly if it's relegated to trading finishers and, one week, someone bashes the other with a chair.

The fondly-remembered Austin/Rock 'Mania XVII video package featured that segment where Rock and Austin sat down for a discussion, which was moderated by JR. They should replicate that with Punk/Cena, and allow them to speak freely (well, relatively so).

From all reports, cm punk has become almost like shawn michaels in Vince's eyes. The fued wont die easily.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Yeah, that'd be awesome, namely because the Cena/Punk rivalry is one predicated on ideological clashes. This feud will deteriorate quickly if it's relegated to trading finishers and, one week, someone bashes the other with a chair.

The fondly-remembered Austin/Rock 'Mania XVII video package featured that segment where Rock and Austin sat down for a discussion, which was moderated by JR. They should replicate that with Punk/Cena, and allow them to speak freely (well, relatively so).

I remember those. Fantastic. And by that point, the Austin/Rock feud was legendary.

[ImYrWoodbury]

thasnks for the spelling. I actually wanst sure how to spell it.

Ill give it a watch then.

I just finished reading the hardcore diaries.

Absolutely watch it! I haven't watched it in so long and have it on DVD.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Well, at least he didn't say someone hacked his account I guess.

it was Randy Orton!

[Gryphon]

Another thing that bugs me that wasn't on-camera until Victory Road is TNA's track record with employee health and well-being. There are tons of articles about this (the Daphne thing has spurred a whole series on one website) but come on. You're trying to be the new WWE and YOU LET A GUY WHO IS HIGH ON HEROIN GO INTO THE RING? And then, after this happens, you SUGGEST he goes to rehab or make comments of "We'd really like him to go" instead of "It's your job if you don't." Absolute insanity to me. Abhorrent.

This is the company that when two employees failed drug tests, the extent of the reprecussions were that they simply told them that they failed drug tests.

[Gryphon]

Absolutely watch it! I haven't watched it in so long and have it on DVD.

Will do.

[Gryphon]

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe/Ultimate_Warrior_Reveals_His_Thoughts_On_John_Cena _CM_Punk.html



Ultimate Warrior revealed his thoughts regarding WWE Superstars John Cena and CM Punk on his Facebook page.

Warrior said of Cena: "I don't know John. Or any of the other guys. It's been a long time since I was in the business and none of them were there when I was, except for a few, like Undertaker. I don't watch TV or PPV's and I don't visit wrestling newssites. However, I was told by the top decision maker in the business, "nobody wants to go for the brass ring anymore, except this John Cena kid...I think, anyway." I've heard from other reliable sources that John is a hard worker.

"I know from my OWN experience that self-discipline, stamina and hard work goes a long way with a decision maker who can go longer and harder than 99% of talent he's seen come and go throughout the years."

Warrior remarked the following regarding Punk, who he has exchanged multiple messages with on Twitter: "From what I have heard, he's got a good ear to his gut instincts and follows the music of his OWN muse. A man's entire destiny depends on how much he will trust these two virtues. Doesn't matter if wants to rule a wrestling ring or the world. If he will fight and bleed for them and guard them from falling prey to ANY other human being's advice, he could write himself a damn good-sized ticket, especially with today's culture being what it is.

"About Punk and the others, I say it is their time and let them have it.

"If a Superstar from yesteryear can't contribute in a way that allows the new crop of talented guys to shine and have their day in the spotlight, contribute in a way to let them Feel their Power, then they should pack their gear bag and go fucking home. Pack your gear bag and go the fuck home."

[ImYrWoodbury]

Yeah, that'd be awesome, namely because the Cena/Punk rivalry is one predicated on ideological clashes. This feud will deteriorate quickly if it's relegated to trading finishers and, one week, someone bashes the other with a chair.

The fondly-remembered Austin/Rock 'Mania XVII video package featured that segment where Rock and Austin sat down for a discussion, which was moderated by JR. They should replicate that with Punk/Cena, and allow them to speak freely (well, relatively so).

The only other times I remember matches being built outside the ring were the Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels Iron Man Match and the Brock Lesnar/The Rock SummerSlam match. And I loved them both.

[Gryphon]

Was there also a follow up documentary to beyond the mat?

[Masculine Todd]

Ooof...that awful green screen took me right out of that Bound for Glory promo. And Hogan at the end...ugh.

Hogan should pop up at the end of every package and be like "yep, I'm here, brother! Rawwr!" Or, I don't know, say some sagely proverb or something. "Wind blows in a forest; let nature be your strength BRUTHAAAA RARRRR!"


The Daniels/Styles one wasn't bad...but it just feels odd. I don't know what it is. I mean, it looks good but there's something off about it.

There was no intensity or animosity. Daniels talks about being in the business for 18 years, and not having as prosperous a career as AJ. Instead of going with that to create some tension (they could go the route of "like, fuck that guy, I'm just as good, but he's had all the breaks"), Daniels is just like "yep, those are the breaks, but we've had good matches and tonight will be the same." And AJ says "I've learned stuff from him" and then they're working out together and spotting each other in the gym. Part of a good video package is telling a story. Their story is boring and listless. Why should I a successful guy and an unsuccessful guy with some vaguely mentioned history wrestle?

I NEED 2 C DAT NAO! DEY WERK OUT TOGEVER

[Gryphon]

The only other times I remember matches being built outside the ring were the Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels Iron Man Match and the Brock Lesnar/The Rock SummerSlam match. And I loved them both.

I never saw a single brock lesnar wwe match, believe it or not. I only know him from UFC.

[Gryphon]

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe/JR_Blog_Punk-Austin_Comparisons_Randy_Orton_s_Timing_John_Cena. html


Jim Ross is back with a new blog update on jrsbarbq.com. Here are just a few highlights:

- Is Randy Orton's 'timing' the best ever in the business? Very subjective question that covers way too much ground for me to accurately answer if there even is an accurate answer. Randy does have innate timing but is Mr. RKO's timing better than Randy's Dad Bob Orton, Jr. in his prime? Timing and being throughly comfortable in the ring is a gift for many who seem to have it in their DNA while others have to work diligently to develop that in ring trait.

- Is John Cena THAT controversial? Depends on what context with which one is speaking but I'd certainly say that Cena is definitely a polarizing individual. There's no mid ground as it relates to most fans opinion on Cena as they either like him or they don't. As a former head of talent relations, Cena is a dream to work with and has a legit, blue collar work ethic.

- Is CM Punk the next Steve Austin? I hope not. I hope that Punk is simply the best CM Punk that he can be. The best for Punk has yet to come in my view. Punk being compared to Austin is inevitable because both are 'defiant' and 'anti establishment' persona's but their in ring styles, body types, etc are distinctly different.

[Masculine Todd]

The only other times I remember matches being built outside the ring were the Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels Iron Man Match and the Brock Lesnar/The Rock SummerSlam match. And I loved them both.

Maybe I'm just lending Brad's argument fire here regarding that dude who did the packages from '92 to '03 (was that the timeline he said? I remember Dunn starting around '01), but those Lesnar/Rock work-out vignettes were perfect.

[ImYrWoodbury]

One of the Bret/Shawn ones:

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsAzki-4oIk&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Sent from my iPhone

[Adrian B AWESOME]

What's with all the NEWZ? Didn't we put a moratorium on that?

[ImYrWoodbury]

Maybe I'm just lending Brad's argument fire here regarding that dude who did the packages from '92 to '03 (was that the timeline he said? I remember Dunn starting around '01), but those Lesnar/Rock work-out vignettes were perfect.

Agree! The only thing missing was "Hearts On Fire" from Rocky IV so I made my own version.

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoBIR2_n8Z0&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Sent from my iPhone

[Gryphon]

Reading some news about New Jack. Jeeze this guy is crazy.

[Gryphon]

What's with all the NEWZ? Didn't we put a moratorium on that?

I just posted two things. Im posting less, not stopping altogether.

[Gryphon]

Agree! The only thing missing was "Hearts On Fire" from Rocky IV so I made my own version.

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoBIR2_n8Z0&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Sent from my iPhone

Neato.

[Masculine Todd]

I hated the whole "everyman, little Texas boy, wholesome babyface" Shawn Michaels thing he had going on in '96. Like, when Sid hit Jose with that camera, 9 year old me was stoked. Shawn should never be forced to do some straight-laced good guy gimmick.

[Gryphon]

Speaking of TNA, this just showed up on amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Tna-Wrestling-B-Hardy-Enigma/dp/B005ELEN08/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1312136548&sr=1-1

[ImYrWoodbury]

I hated the whole "everyman, little Texas boy, wholesome babyface" Shawn Michaels thing he had going on in '96. Like, when Sid hit Jose with that camera, 9 year old me was stoked. Shawn should never be forced to do some straight-laced good guy gimmick.

Come on, Todd! The dude just realized his Boyhood DREAM!

[Gryphon]

Who was the most overrated wwe star in the last 5 years?

[Masculine Todd]

From all reports, cm punk has become almost like shawn michaels in Vince's eyes. The fued wont die easily.

"All reports?"

Meltzer said that, and all the shitty sites just parroted him.

[Masculine Todd]

come on, todd! The dude just realized his boyhood dream!

dat dude luvd 2 danc n smile

nevr lose ur smile shun!

[Brad N.]

I remember those. Fantastic. And by that point, the Austin/Rock feud was legendary.

Guess who made those!!! :)

[Gryphon]

Come on, Todd! The dude just realized his Boyhood DREAM!

Vince was terrible on commentary.

[Gryphon]

"All reports?"

Meltzer said that, and all the shitty sites just parroted him.

F4W and PWI alos reported it independently of WON.

[Gryphon]

dat dude luvd 2 danc n smile

nevr lose ur smile shun!

Even when he screwed over the pride of Canada.

Still a sore point among canadian fans.

[Masculine Todd]

F4W and PWI alos reported it independently of WON.

Uh, F4W is essentially the same thing as the Observer. Alvarez and Meltzer run the site together, and their news letters share sources/info.

[Masculine Todd]

Wait, Kevin Dunn's been with WWE over 20 years, according to their website. Are you sure he didn't make those video packages, Brad?

[Masculine Todd]

Even when he screwed over the pride of Canada.

Still a sore point among canadian fans.

I know. I'm Canadian.

[Gryphon]

Guess who made those!!! :)

Good point.

[Masculine Todd]

But it's not like Canadian fans are, like, boycotting WWE or anything. "Still sore" = chanting "you screwed Bret" at Vince and Shawn during shows in Canada.

[ImYrWoodbury]

I'm Canadian.

I've been to Canada. A lot. Played lacrosse there every summer. I was pretty good. Just not good enough for...

[Gryphon]

Uh, F4W is essentially the same thing as the Observer. Alvarez and Meltzer run the site together, and their news letters share sources/info.

I didnt know that.

I retract my statement then.

[Gryphon]

But it's not like Canadian fans are, like, boycotting WWE or anything. "Still sore" = chanting "you screwed Bret" at Vince and Shawn during shows in Canada.

Of course we dont boycott. Canadian fans are hardcore fanatics. Especially here in toronto.

I didnt know you were canadian though.

Where in Canada are you from?

[Masculine Todd]

I've been to Canada. A lot. Played lacrosse there every summer. I was pretty good. Just not good enough for...

I called the bathroom "washroom" today, and the girl asked if I knew who the American president is.

FUCCCCC YEY BRO I LIVE IN MICHIGAN NAO OBAMAMA 4LYFE DEBT SEELIN BAYNER = MY BRO polITICS HOCKEY

#whoplayslacrosse?!

[Gryphon]

I've been to Canada. A lot. Played lacrosse there every summer. I was pretty good. Just not good enough for...

I suck at Lacrosse. Like seriously, Im terrible at it. I love Curling though. Curling and Soccer. I dont like Hockey.

[Masculine Todd]

Of course we dont boycott. Canadian fans are hardcore fanatics. Especially here in toronto.

I didnt know you were canadian though.

Where in Canada are you from?

Toronto. Lived around Corktown most of the time.

[Brad N.]

Maybe I'm just lending Brad's argument fire here regarding that dude who did the packages from '92 to '03 (was that the timeline he said? I remember Dunn starting around '01), but those Lesnar/Rock work-out vignettes were perfect.

Kevin Dunn was or is the exec VP of TV production of WWE. Sahadi was under him as the head of video production. Sahadi did leave in 2003 and was very vocal about things he didn't like - Katie Vick for one. Sahadi and his team were directly responsible for everything from entrance videos, vignettes, Raw and Smackdown intro videos, promo packages, the whole nine. But yes, Dunn was his boss.

[Gryphon]

Toronto. Lived around Corktown most of the time.

Nice. Im from North York.

I cant wait till the royal rumble comes in 2012. Im so excited.

[ImYrWoodbury]

#whoplayslacrosse?!

Native Americans.

[Masculine Todd]

Kevin Dunn was or is the exec VP of TV production of WWE. Sahadi was under him as the head of video production. Sahadi did leave in 2003 and was very vocal about things he didn't like - Katie Vick for one. Sahadi and his team were directly responsible for everything from entrance videos, vignettes, Raw and Smackdown intro videos, promo packages, the whole nine. But yes, Dunn was his boss.

But he did such a great job on this video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwCtNZRKayU

[Gryphon]

Kevin Dunn was or is the exec VP of TV production of WWE. Sahadi was under him as the head of video production. Sahadi did leave in 2003 and was very vocal about things he didn't like - Katie Vick for one. Sahadi and his team were directly responsible for everything from entrance videos, vignettes, Raw and Smackdown intro videos, promo packages, the whole nine. But yes, Dunn was his boss.

Whose idea was Katie Vick? It was disturbing to hear about years after.

[joeAR]

Hogan should pop up at the end of every package and be like "yep, I'm here, brother! Rawwr!" Or, I don't know, say some sagely proverb or something. "Wind blows in a forest; let nature be your strength BRUTHAAAA RARRRR!"

There was no intensity or animosity. Daniels talks about being in the business for 18 years, and not having as prosperous a career as AJ. Instead of going with that to create some tension (they could go the route of "like, fuck that guy, I'm just as good, but he's had all the breaks"), Daniels is just like "yep, those are the breaks, but we've had good matches and tonight will be the same." And AJ says "I've learned stuff from him" and then they're working out together and spotting each other in the gym. Part of a good video package is telling a story. Their story is boring and listless. Why should I a successful guy and an unsuccessful guy with some vaguely mentioned history wrestle?

I NEED 2 C DAT NAO! DEY WERK OUT TOGEVER


Yeah it seemed like the Daniels one was made for people who already watch TNA . If I never watched TNA before I wouldnt really have any interest after watching that video packagae.

[ImYrWoodbury]

Todd, don't you know lacrosse is Canada's national sport? #eh

[ImYrWoodbury]

Kevin Dunn was or is the exec VP of TV production of WWE. Sahadi was under him as the head of video production. Sahadi did leave in 2003 and was very vocal about things he didn't like - Katie Vick for one. Sahadi and his team were directly responsible for everything from entrance videos, vignettes, Raw and Smackdown intro videos, promo packages, the whole nine. But yes, Dunn was his boss.

Did WWE try to hire him back for Alex Riley's much hyped new TitanTron?

[Gryphon]

But he did such a great job on this video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwCtNZRKayU

Aside from flair, hhh, and kane, I dont recognize any of the wrestlers in that video.

[joeAR]

But he did such a great job on this video:

YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwCtNZRKayU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwCtNZRKayU)


Kane went to parties?

[ImYrWoodbury]

Nice. Im from North York.

I cant wait till the royal rumble comes in 2012. Im so excited.

I'll prob get tickets. Toronto is a 1.5 hr drive. I go to all the Toronto ROH shows and Raw last May and the UFC show.

[Masculine Todd]

Nice. Im from North York.

I cant wait till the royal rumble comes in 2012. Im so excited.

I used to walk down Yonge Street all the time (well, everyone did). Good stuff.

[Gryphon]

I'll prob get tickets. Toronto is a 1.5 hr drive. I go to all the Toronto ROH shows and Raw last May and the UFC show.

Maybe we could meet up there?

[Masculine Todd]

Todd, don't you know lacrosse is Canada's national sport? #eh

im in the us nao wut iz r sport do peeple stil pretend 2 care bout basebll?

[Gryphon]

I used to walk down Yonge Street all the time (well, everyone did). Good stuff.

I like to walk to younge from Bathurst via a street called drewery. Its an hour walk but its good exercise.

[ImYrWoodbury]

im in the us nao wut iz r sport do peeple stil pretend 2 care bout basebll?

For like 6 hrs it was US Women's Soccer.

[Brad N.]

But he did such a great job on this video:

YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwCtNZRKayU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwCtNZRKayU)

The guy still had to do his job. He talked about it after as one of the reasons he quit in 2003.

[ImYrWoodbury]

Maybe we could meet up there?

Maybe we will, maybe we won't.

Do you know when tickets go on sale?

Sidebar: Note to self: Purchase WWE Night of Champions tickets.

[Greyone]

The Official Wrestling Thread: Hell yeah we can fight over Video Packages, and who made them.

[Gryphon]

The official Wrestling thread, is Having a nice day!

[Gryphon]

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/239785-update-on-sin-caras-wwe-suspension-possible-return-date


WWE is currently advertising Sin Cara for the August 20 live event in Tacoma, Washington.

Sin Cara received a 30-day suspension for his first violation of the WWE Wellness Policy on July 18. The 8/20 Smackdown is the first show he would be eligible to appear on.

[somsta121383]

OMG! WTF! Sin Cara is tentatively scheduled to return at a date after his suspension ends? Thank god this was shared with us all!

[Foolish Mortal]

Well there was speculation that Sin Cara might get released. But that doesn't appear to be the case.

[UltimateFactor]

Aside from flair, hhh, and kane, I dont recognize any of the wrestlers in that video.

You don't recognize Chris Jericho?!

[Bervda]

Brilliant stuff and there are literally endless equal or better examples to choose from. Say what you will about the product but I cannot believe anyone could claim these pieces aren't top notch. I also haven't really been all that thrilled by anything WWE has put together over the last few years. Sahadi is the guy behind my favorite WWE videos ever - those Desire videos. He's still working magic in TNA while WWE's video packages feel plain and lifeless.

We're apparently the only ones, Brad. :lol:

[usagi20]

You don't recognize Chris Jericho?!

Not with that hairdo!

[Masculine Todd]

You don't recognize Chris Jericho?!

Not to mention the greatest wrestler of the Attitude Era, D'lo Brown?!

[Gryphon]

Not with that hairdo!

pretty much why.

[somsta121383]

I think what TNA needs is guys using the armbar more. Or variations of said armbar.

[Gryphon]

I think what TNA needs is guys using the armbar more. Or variations of said armbar.

Angle used Del Rio's cross armbar a few weeks ago on impact.

[Gryphon]

Does that count?

[Gryphon]

Beyond the Mat is really good. Some parts made me uneasy though.

[Masculine Todd]

Hold 436: Armbar!

[somsta121383]

Beyond the Mat is really good. Some parts made me uneasy though.

Did you think Mick's family were a bunch of pussies too? Somebody should cane that son of his.

[Gryphon]

Did you think Mick's family were a bunch of pussies too? Somebody should cane that son of his.

More about the wrestler who became crippled. And is still employed by WWE.

[Greenville 90210]

What's with all the NEWZ? Didn't we put a moratorium on that?

Why? Who gives a shit. Sometimes it actually sparks some kind of conversation. Or it's ignored. Not really a big deal.

[somsta121383]

More about the wrestler who became crippled. And is still employed by WWE.

Dude has a name, you know.

[Gryphon]

Dude has a name, you know.

And I cannot remember it.

[Briomega]

And I cannot remember it.

His story moved you but you cant recall his name?

[somsta121383]

And I cannot remember it.

Darren Drozdov (sp?) aka Droz aka Puke. Aka Denny Crane.

[SteveFlack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqKiBn9a_c8

He's gonna PUKE!

[somsta121383]

YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqKiBn9a_c8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqKiBn9a_c8)

He's gonna PUKE!

Who can argue that Vince isn't a creative genius?

[Greenville 90210]

I still quote the Vince "He's gonna- he's gonna PUKE!!!!!!" line.

[Gryphon]

His story moved you but you cant recall his name?

I know he was called puke But I couldnt rememebr his real name.

[somsta121383]

Remember when Donovan McNabb stole Droz's gimmick at the Super Bowl? Soooo not cool!

[Briomega]

Remember when Donovan McNabb stole Droz's gimmick at the Super Bowl? Soooo not cool!

It was Brett Favre's first.

[somsta121383]

It was Brett Favre's first.

You're right, forgot that.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQbhC_3EGMc&feature=related

[Gryphon]

For those interested in JCW,
colt cabana is no longer JCW champion, as he just lost the title to Corporal Robinson who was then blindsided by the returning Vampiro

[Gryphon]

The Wrestling Observer Newsletter is reporting that highspots.com offered both Hulk Hogan and Warrior to take part in a face to face DVD featured interview.

The report states that both men were offered $100,000 each. No word yet on if either have made an official response to the offer.

[somsta121383]

The Wrestling Observer Newsletter is reporting that highspots.com offered both Hulk Hogan and Warrior to take part in a face to face DVD featured interview.

The report states that both men were offered $100,000 each. No word yet on if either have made an official response to the offer.

I bet Ric Flair would dress up as one of them and do the interview for that kind of money.

[Greenville 90210]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQbhC_3EGMc&feature=related

Genius.

[Brad N.]

It was Brett Favre's first.

Robert Smith used to puke like every other game.

[SteveFlack]

I bet Ric Flair would dress up as one of them and do the interview for that kind of money.

Ric Flair would dress up as both of them and interview himself for that kind of money.

Any money.

Ric Flair will suck your dick for some cheeseburgers.

[Briomega]

Ric Flair would dress up as both of them and interview himself for that kind of money.

Any money.

Ric Flair will suck your dick for some cheeseburgers.

And scream Wooooooooooo as you jizz in his face.

[Masculine Todd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQbhC_3EGMc&feature=related

Best post best dude

[somsta121383]

And scream Wooooooooooo as you jizz in his face.

But would you tell him you're sorry and you love him?

[Benel Germosen]

But would you tell him you're sorry and you love him?

I already do.

[somsta121383]

I already do.

Don't we all? Don't we all...

[joeAR]

And scream Wooooooooooo as you jizz in his face.


You guys read my mind.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

But guys, seriously, he's not booked.

[somsta121383]

But guys, seriously, he's not booked.

Flair or Stamp?!

[Briomega]

Do you think you have to pay extra for Flair to wear the robe?

[somsta121383]

Do you think you have to pay extra for Flair to wear the robe?

Bro, you know he's already hawked the robe. But he will put on your bathrobe if you let him keep it afterwards.

[Roger]

The Wrestling Observer Newsletter is reporting that highspots.com offered both Hulk Hogan and Warrior to take part in a face to face DVD featured interview.

The report states that both men were offered $100,000 each. No word yet on if either have made an official response to the offer.

100,000??????
i've talked to the guys that highspots, i don't think they have that kind of cash...

[Foolish Mortal]

Bro, you know he's already hawked the robe. But he will put on your bathrobe if you let him keep it afterwards.

Yes but how much will it cost for him to throw the robe on the ground and do an elbow drop on it?

[Masculine Todd]

Is there any NEWZ on Stamp potentially being booked for Raw tomorrow night?

[somsta121383]

Is there any NEWZ on Stamp potentially being booked for Raw tomorrow night?

I'm sure Gryphon is looking into it at all the most respectable news sites. Except he can't remember Stamp's name.

[Roger]

Sin Cara is being advertised to return at the WWE SmackDown live event on August 20th from Tacoma, Washington.

Cara was suspended for violating WWE's Wellness Policy back on July 18th so the Tacoma event would be the first show he is eligible to return on.

Cara won't be able to return in time for SummerSlam or the post-SummerSlam SmackDown tapings on August 16th. Cara is being advertised for other live events so it looks like WWE made the decision to bring him back after talk that he would be released.

[Gryphon]

I found this and wanted to share

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainDecay
Villain decay in professional wrestling


•John "Bradshaw" Layfield. Remember when JBL was the longest-reigning WWE Champion in the history of SmackDown!? Yup, nobody else does, either.
•Averted with The Great Khali. Although he was marginalized a bit following the loss of his World Heavyweight Championship to Batista late in 2007, WWE managed to keep him sufficiently menacing up until his Heel Face Turn a year later....and then the decay set in.
•Also averted with Umaga. Although he did lose three consecutive pay-per-view matches in early 2007 after having previously gone undefeated for nearly nine months, he managed to remain a dangerous (if hardly ever successful) villain right up until his death in 2009.
•Vladimir Kozlov. Like Umaga, he managed to go for the better part of a year without being pinned until Shawn Michaels finally defeated him in early 2009. Within months, however, he and Ezekiel Jackson were playing second fiddle to William Regal, who was himself a pretty pathetic villain. His standing eventually fell so far that by the time he turned face, he was spending most of his time with Santino Marella in a comic-relief (if occasionally successful) tag team.
•Played straight and then subverted with Montel Vontavious Porter. He was the longest-reigning United States Champion in the title's 33-year history until Matt Hardy finally won it from him in 2008. From there he began a long slide into irrelevancy, until by the fall of that year he was stuck in a months-long losing streak that made you forget he had ever been at all competent. But this eventually proved to be a blessing when the crowd began to cheer him out of sympathy, resulting in a Heel Face Turn and a long-denied victory when he won a match that enabled Triple H to participate in the 2009 Royal Rumble. He then went on to be just as successful as before, even defeating Shelton Benjamin to become United States Champion once again.
•Lampshaded with Edge. After winning the World Heavyweight Championship in December 2007 (which he had never lost, as it had been stripped from him earlier that year due to an injury), he decided to safeguard his title by forging a strategic relationship with SmackDown! General Manager Vickie Guerrero. Although at first he only pretended to fall in love with her, as time went on he genuinely became enamored with her and transformed into a slightly effeminate character who swooned over Vickie every chance he got. In any event, the strategy was an enormous success: Edge had Vickie set up numerous scenarios in which his chief rival, The Undertaker, couldn't possibly win, and even persuaded her to have 'Taker banished from WWE entirely. Edge proposed marriage to Vickie in the summer of 2008, but the ceremony ended in disaster after it was revealed that he had been cheating on Vickie with Alicia Fox, the wedding planner. Vickie told Edge that she hated him, which led to a brief period of Cry For The Devil as Edge begged Vickie for forgiveness. But Vickie would have none of it, and decided to avenge herself further by having Undertaker reinstated to WWE and booking him against Edge in a Hell in a Cell Match at SummerSlam. This turned Edge into a wild-eyed coward who didn't believe he could win the match without help, and so he sought advice from Mick Foley on how to win a Hell in a Cell Match. Foley flat out told Edge that he was going to lose the match, because ever since he had fallen in love with Vickie he had been a complete sissy....
◦....which briefly galvanized Edge into regaining some of his Badass status by murmuring "I....understand" - and then climbing a ladder and elbow-dropping Foley through a table.
•For the Divas, Molly Holly. This two-time Women's Champion was forced to undergo a protracted Humiliation Conga that lasted almost an entire year after WrestleMania XX, when Victoria defeated her in a match, strapped her to a barber's chair, and shaved off all her hair. Eventually her hair grew back, but things only got worse for Molly when Stacy Keibler (of all people!) pinned her in three consecutive matches. This was truly the beginning of the end for Holly, because if someone so inexperienced could pin a former champion three times, then who the hell couldn't? It wasn't long before "Mighty Molly" wasn't so mighty anymore - indeed, was a complete joke, losing every single match more or less regularly before finally leaving WWE.

[Gryphon]

I'm sure Gryphon is looking into it at all the most respectable news sites. Except he can't remember Stamp's name.

To be fair, I honestly dont care baout the guy anymore.

[Foolish Mortal]

Sin Cara is being advertised to return at the WWE SmackDown live event on August 20th from Tacoma, Washington.

Cara was suspended for violating WWE's Wellness Policy back on July 18th so the Tacoma event would be the first show he is eligible to return on.

Cara won't be able to return in time for SummerSlam or the post-SummerSlam SmackDown tapings on August 16th. Cara is being advertised for other live events so it looks like WWE made the decision to bring him back after talk that he would be released.
Sorry, Roger, but Gojira already beat you to the punch with that NEWZ.

[Roger]

Sorry, Roger, but Gojira already beat you to the punch with that NEWZ.

Damm Canadian.....

[Gryphon]

Sin Cara is being advertised to return at the WWE SmackDown live event on August 20th from Tacoma, Washington.

Cara was suspended for violating WWE's Wellness Policy back on July 18th so the Tacoma event would be the first show he is eligible to return on.

Cara won't be able to return in time for SummerSlam or the post-SummerSlam SmackDown tapings on August 16th. Cara is being advertised for other live events so it looks like WWE made the decision to bring him back after talk that he would be released.

Was there really any doubt that he would be back?

[Gryphon]

Damm Canadian.....

Muahahahahahaha


Canada Pwns USA

[somsta121383]

To be fair, I honestly dont care baout the guy anymore.

What guy?

[Briomega]

What guy?

Puke.

[Gryphon]

•edit to say nothing

[somsta121383]

Puke.

But what about Dennis Stamp?

[Gryphon]

Puke.

Indeed.


*cue kai en tai video

[Gryphon]

But what about Dennis Stamp?

meh.

[Briomega]

But what about Dennis Stamp?

He isn't booked.

[Gryphon]

You know who needs a heel turn? DBD

[Briomega]

You know who needs a heel turn? DBD

Dirty Brad Doerkson?

[Gryphon]

He isn't booked.

No he isnt and never will be.

[Gryphon]

Dirty Brad Doerkson?

Who?

[Gryphon]

Can you guys post some youtube vids of your favourite wwe moments?
Im trying to make a list of best wwe moments.

[somsta121383]

Dirty Brad Doerkson?

Duke the Bumpster Droese?

[Briomega]

Duke the Bumpster Droese?

Noo. Dapper Billy Dempsey.

[Gryphon]

I'm sure Gryphon is looking into it at all the most respectable news sites. Except he can't remember Stamp's name.

I am of course looking for newz.

[Briomega]

Can you guys post some youtube vids of your favourite wwe moments?
Im trying to make a list of best wwe moments.

My favorite moment is that one time when George Steele ate a turnbuckle. It was crazy. I don't think it's available on YouTube as this happened before the Internet was invented.

[Gryphon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo5GG1ieFas

Remember this?

[somsta121383]

Can you guys post some youtube vids of your favourite wwe moments?
Im trying to make a list of best wwe moments.

My favorite moment was when Greg Valentine beat a jobber with the figure four on a July 1991 edition of All American Wrestling. Ill look for a clip of it.

[Gryphon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmHMAWQfvLk

I was just sent this in a PM.

[Briomega]

YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo5GG1ieFas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo5GG1ieFas)

Remember this?

Whoa I never knew they wrestled for the World Wildlife Fund. That's crazy. Did Hogan wrestle a polar bear?

[somsta121383]

YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo5GG1ieFas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo5GG1ieFas)

Remember this?

The nWo in the WWE is to me like pretty much anyone that goes to TNA. It doesn't matter how talented, how big a star or legend - (Angle, Foley, Sting...) within a matter of weeks you're just another guy in TNA. The WWE had three returning legends and one of the most successful gimmicks in wrestling history in the New World Order yet there was absolutely nothing special about them.

[Gryphon]

My favorite moment was when Greg Valentine beat a jobber with the figure four on a July 1991 edition of All American Wrestling. Ill look for a clip of it.

BTW, unrelated but did you get my PM?

[Brad N.]

Was there really any doubt that he would be back?

Wha huh? You had a few posts asking if he'd be back and suggesting he wouldn't.

[somsta121383]

BTW, unrelated but did you get my PM?

Just saw it.

[Briomega]

In all seriousness, the greatest moment in WWE history was the appearance of a second Earl Hebner. Nothing has nor will ever top it.

[Briomega]

Wha huh? You had a few posts asking if he'd be back and suggesting he wouldn't.

:lol:

[somsta121383]

In all seriousness, the greatest moment in WWE history was the appearance of a second Earl Hebner. Nothing has nor will ever top it.

Wasn't it a second Dave?

[Gryphon]

Whoa I never knew they wrestled for the World Wildlife Fund. That's crazy. Did Hogan wrestle a polar bear?

I would watch that.

[Gryphon]

Wha huh? You had a few posts asking if he'd be back and suggesting he wouldn't.
Shhh!!!

This is my heel turn!

[Gryphon]

As part of my heel turn. I love TNA/IMPACT wrestling!

[Gryphon]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XPacHeat

[Briomega]

Wasn't it a second Dave?

Thanks for ruining my serious greatest moment. Now I need to find a new one. :(

[Briomega]

Ok it was that time Rick Martel sprayed perfume from an exterminator's fumigator into someone's eyes.

[Gryphon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLrUmWwvrYc

This is what got me back into wrestling and it died a slow painful death.

[Gryphon]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XPacHeat

Do I have x pac heat yet?

[somsta121383]

Do I have x pac heat yet?

YES! Having said that, I generally always liked X Pac.

[Briomega]

Not quite. Maybe Sixx Pac heat.

[Gryphon]

YES! Having said that, I generally always liked X Pac.

He actually has been having something of a comeback lately. Which is good. He was a legitimately good worker who made bad life choices but seems to be turining his life around.

[Gryphon]

If only scott hall could save himself. But he is surrounded by enablers. And who knows what nash is doing for him.

[Gryphon]

BTW, I forgot to mention this months ago but was reminded of it while reading my journal of my trip to Israel.

One guy who is huge in Israel among wrestling fans, is CM Punk even when he was the hated heel at the time.

But even bigger than him surprisingly is Jack Swagger.

[somsta121383]

He actually has been having something of a comeback lately. Which is good. He was a legitimately good worker who made bad life choices but seems to be turining his life around.

Yeah, he seems to be doing well and writes some pretty interesting blogs lately.

[Gryphon]

BTW I watched some Israeli independent wrestling at a show my brother took me to. I didnt know who anyone was but those high flyers were freaking amazing. Even the big guys were doing massive aerial stunts.

[Gryphon]

Well Im heading out to bed. see y'all later.

[Brad N.]

Well Im heading out to bed. see y'all later.

Do your folks make you sleep outside Ioan Gryphund?

[Briomega]

Do your folks make you sleep outside Ioan Gryphund?

Maybe he's a gigolo?

[Masculine Todd]

I found this and wanted to share

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainDecay
Villain decay in professional wrestling


Although at first he only pretended to fall in love with her, as time went on he genuinely became enamored with her and transformed into a slightly effeminate character who swooned over Vickie every chance he got.

Foley flat out told Edge that he was going to lose the match, because ever since he had fallen in love with Vickie he had been a complete sissy....

Whoever wrote this article is a chud.

[Gryphon]

Whoever wrote this article is a chud.

I found it funny. Stupid funny.

[Gryphon]

Who are some wrestlers who were neutered when they lost part of their gimmick? Kane for one, but who else?

[Gryphon]

http://www.amazon.com/Shawn-Michaels-Vs-Bret-Hart/dp/B005BYBZCM/ref=sr_1_3?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1312198264&sr=1-3

This just showed up on amazon.

[XXXenophile]

The nWo in the WWE is to me like pretty much anyone that goes to TNA. It doesn't matter how talented, how big a star or legend - (Angle, Foley, Sting...) within a matter of weeks you're just another guy in TNA. The WWE had three returning legends and one of the most successful gimmicks in wrestling history in the New World Order yet there was absolutely nothing special about them.

Not quite true. But the whole aspect of the NWO was overshadowed overall by just Hogan being back in WWE. That was the real big aspect.

[Gryphon]

Not quite true. But the whole aspect of the NWO was overshadowed overall by just Hogan being back in WWE. That was the real big aspect.
He was supposed to be the heel but the fans cheered him so much he became a face.

Then scott hall got released. Then it all went to hell.

[Gryphon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8n72Vf0ncE

Remember this?

[Gryphon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U2zGagLpxc&feature=related

[Adrian B AWESOME]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8n72Vf0ncE

Remember this?

Not like this was posted and talked about, at length, last week.

[Gryphon]

I wanted to talk about it some more.

[Gryphon]

Whats wrong with that?

[Gryphon]

Could wade barrett be a good face? Or does he need to stay heel?

[Gryphon]

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe/WWE_Increases_Live_Event_Security_Following_Threat _Against_Maryse.html




TMZ reports that WWE is taking serious security measures to keep performer Maryse Ouellet safe after she received a series of 'disturbing e-mails' from an obsessed fan.

Company officials have added additional security personnel at recent events and plan to keep the extra protection in place as long as they feel there is a legitimate threat.

WWE has also taken additional security measures, but are being tight-lipped in order to make sure they are effective.

TMZ reported last week that the WWE Diva filed a request for a permanent restraining order against 61-year-old Lee Silber last week, claiming he has sent "numerous terrifying letters to my home and left more than 50 voicemails on my personal cell phone all of which are extremely disturbing and delusional."

Maryse says Silber's letters have gotten scarier over the last few weeks ... with Silber promising that he will be "coming to LA for me" ... and will "take me to heaven with him."

[Gryphon]

edit. Not important.

[Gryphon]

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe/Shawn_Michaels_Working_On_Book_7-Eleven_Releases_WWE_Collectible_Cups.html


Shawn Michaels and WWE.com writer Craig Tello are collaborating on an e-book titled Diary of the Heartbreak Kid. It is scheduled for release this December. Further details on the book have not been disclosed.

-- CM Punk appears at JD Byrider 5050 W. 38th St. Indianapolis, Indiana today from 11:45 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. Call 317-295-1028 for more information.

-- WWE referee Mike Chioda celebrates his 47th birthday today.

-- 7-Eleven has released eight collectible Slurpee and Super Big Gulp cups featuring WWE Legends and Superstars. The Miz, John Cena, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and The Rock are featured on Slurpee cups while Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio and "Rowdy" Roddy Piper are featured on the Super Big Gulp cups.

I guess CM Punk backed down.

[DAVE]

Apparently, this happened:

http://img.fanbase.com/media.fanbase.com/8/15326/c4e7b7f8f1f82c36c960e18ce25dd5a0b863b023.jpg?x=567&y=744&sig=98440c1f9136cc0757200279b7e7ea66

[Greenville 90210]

Could wade barrett be a good face? Or does he need to stay heel?

He could but why now?

[Gryphon]

He could but why now?

Well not now, but Im asking because I was listening to an interview he did OOC, where he said that he feels he cannot work as a face and needs to be a heel.

[Gryphon]

It got me wondering, if he in fact was not possible as a face or if he actually could pull it off.

[Gryphon]

Since we were talking about TNA yesterday, this might be of interest.

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/tna/Three_Matches_Announced_For_Impact_MVP_Takes_Appar ent_Shot_At_TNA_More.html


MVP, who now competes for New Japan Pro Wrestling after parting ways with World Wrestling Entertainment in December, was asked on Twitter about joining TNA Wrestling should he get homesick.

Taking an apparent shot at the Nashville based organization, he responded, "I could never be THAT homesick!"

[DAVE]

Is Raw live tonight?

[Gryphon]

Why wouldnt it be?

[Gryphon]

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe/Update_on_Nixed_Punk_Triple_H_Plans_from_RAW_New_V ideo_of_The_Miz.html


As noted before, WWE had six different scripts for last week's RAW where CM Punk returned and one plan was for Triple H to lay Punk out. The spot where Triple H would have hit Punk with a Pedigree was in the first, second, third and fourth script. Something happened, likely someone realized it was a bad idea, and the angle was edited out of the fifth script and then the 6th & final script.

[Gryphon]

My prediction for the divas battle royale and beyond is that Eve will win, turn heel and feud with kk for the belt, siding with the bellas.

[SteveFlack]

My prediction for the divas battle royale and beyond is that Eve will win, turn heel and feud with kk for the belt, siding with the bellas.

Y'know, when ever I see this stuff on Raw, I wonder "Who gives a shit?"

Thanks for the answer.

[usagi20]

Could wade barrett be a good face? Or does he need to stay heel?

In order to become a face, Wade would have to start wearing the coat with the flower again. Then when heels confront him, they pull the flower from his lapel, throw it on the mat and stomp on it.

[Gryphon]

Y'know, when ever I see this stuff on Raw, I wonder "Who gives a shit?"

Thanks for the answer.

Just waiting for kharma to return and kill bitches dead.

[Gryphon]

In order to become a face, Wade would have to start wearing the coat with the flower again. Then when heels confront him, they pull the flower from his lapel, throw it on the mat and stomp on it.

You are obsessed with that coat with the flower aren't you?

[Gryphon]

Y'know, when ever I see this stuff on Raw, I wonder "Who gives a shit?"

Thanks for the answer.

Plus to be honest, many of the divas do work hard and get little support. ( no jokes here). They really shine at house shows and superstars has some of the best women's wrestling ever.

[usagi20]

Um, no. This is my first mention of the coat and the flower actually. In fact, the second part of it only just occurred to me as I was writing it.

[Gryphon]

Um, no. This is my first mention of the coat and the flower actually. In fact, the second part of it only just occurred to me as I was writing it.

Sorry, confused you with someone else on another board. You both have usagi in your username.

[Gryphon]

He needs better music though. End of days is a crappy song.

[Greenville 90210]

You are obsessed with that coat with the flower aren't you?

No, that's me.

[Gryphon]

No, that's me.

And a guy on another forum as well.

[Gryphon]

Should he use his fcw music/kaval's music?


No, that's me.

[Gryphon]

I wish the divas wrestling was dealt with better. Make Beth or Nattie the champion or better yet have them feud with each other.

[Gryphon]

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe/CM_Punk_Officially_Reinstated_On_WWE_Roster_Ultima te_Warrior_Launches_O_W_N.html



-- Ultimate Warrior posted a new video announcing the launch of One Warrior Nation, which can be accessed via WarriorUniversity.com.

The former WWE Champion says the mission of One Warrior Nation is to inspire people to make changes in their lives for the better.

[The Human Target]

Of the 26 posts currently on my page, 19 of them are Gryphon.

[Gryphon]

Ill slow down.

[Benel Germosen]

Of the 26 posts currently on my page, 19 of them are Gryphon.

It's really weird to see 19 "This message is hidden because Gryphon is on your ignore list" in a row.

[DAVE]

Why wouldnt it be?

I don't know, it's not live sometimes. Sorry, I didn't spend the weekend on the newz sites.