This is bullshit right?

[Fygar]

So I've been living in my current apartment since August. Things were fine until the winter. I had issues with my heat practically every other day for months. They could temporarily fix the issue for a day and then it'd start all over again. The maintenance guys were nice but my landlord was a dick.

So suffice to say I decided to leave when my lease is up (plus have plans to move in with my girlfriend). To my surprise though, the company actually wanted to know if I was going to re-sign the lease on February 1st! That seems a little early doesn't it? So I told them I wasn't and thought nothing of it. Two days later I got a letter confirming that I wasn't signing and a list of things that need done by the time I leave. Next to each item (ex: clean oven, the entire fridge, wash walls) is the amount I'll owe if I don't ranging from 25 bucks to a hundred. This seemed weird since the place was filthy when I first moved in. I had to clean for over a week to get it into shape.

So now fast forward to today. In 25 minutes they're showing the apartment to someone! They left me a voicemail and said there are two more appointments next week! I'm here until July 31st! Doesn't that seem a bit odd to anyone else? It's a little intrusive to have strangers in and out of my apartment every few days for the next few months. I'm still paying 500 bucks a month. It's still my place. I can see if it was late June or early July, but this is absurd.

Thoughts?

[Marcdachamp]

Well, my apartment knowledge is slim, but that definitely seems ridiculous, man.

[McGill]

Just stay there on the appointments. Or file a grievance. They can't force you to leave if you're in good standing and are paid up.

[Kingsumo]

Wow, do they know when your lease is up?

It certainly sounds like the landlord is going out of his way to be dickish to you. Maybe he is trying to get you to break lease and leave early or something.

Sadly, I don't know enough about renters laws, especially in your area, to know if this is kosher, but it is most certainly bad form.

[Keith P.]

Threads like this remind me of how awesome my landlords are.

[Brother Power the Gong]

Fill the place up with a herd of goats. Whenever prospective renters show up, just tell them you'll have it clean by the time you move out.

[McAfee]

My rental history is limited, but I've never encountered anything remotely close to this type of behavior from a property owner.

[Buk Was Right]

Chances are that when you signed your lease you signed or initialed something that said that the landlord could enter your unit with some (or even zero) notice.

It is weird that they're already showing it if you're not leaving until July. I'd nail down when your last day in that place is going to be immediately because it sounds like you and the landlord have different ideas.

The maintenance/cleaning list is pretty standard (although I've never actually gotten an itemized list in advance, I've always just been billed on the back end for stuff that I didn't do). You gotta clean up when you leave. If the place was a messy pile of fuck when you moved in you should have documented it at the time and dealt with it then. Saying "it was dirty when I moved in so I'm leaving it dirty when I move out" doesn't really play.

[cPol]

Poop before you leave for work. Don't flush. Leave the seat up.

[Unicornucopia]

Check your rental agreement. Check the law regarding apartment rentals where you live. And confirm with your landlord that you're both on the same page.

i.e. I just parroted what other people have already said. ...but I said it, so it's truth now.

[Doug]

That stuff happened to me when I lived in an off campus apartment in collage.

[Heroic Age Moe]

Chances are that when you signed your lease you signed or initialed something that said that the landlord could enter your unit with some (or even zero) notice.

It is weird that they're already showing it if you're not leaving until July. I'd nail down when your last day in that place is going to be immediately because it sounds like you and the landlord have different ideas.

The maintenance/cleaning list is pretty standard (although I've never actually gotten an itemized list in advance, I've always just been billed on the back end for stuff that I didn't do). You gotta clean up when you leave. If the place was a messy pile of fuck when you moved in you should have documented it at the time and dealt with it then. Saying "it was dirty when I moved in so I'm leaving it dirty when I move out" doesn't really play.


This here. Landlords can pretty much do whatever. And the showings are part of that.

[Kurt Russell Crowe]

the cleaning/maintenance thing sounds standard, the other stuff seems shady

[Udiguhgudibuh]

:mistrust: Your ultimate goal is to do what's easiest for you.

:twisted: Yes, your landlord is being a total prick. You don't have to let him walk all over you (unless accommodating his stupid wishes is just simplest for you), and unless it's written into your lease agreement.

:cool: Having a wonderful mother-in-law who rents property, I know that she gets royally screwed by tenants all the time. Realizing that your landlord expects you to be a total dick may be helpful. (From experience, landlords know most tenants are jerks-- and they're right!)

I doubt it will end up in court, but you won't need a lawyer. Just have all your paperwork in order-- and represent yourself. (Watch a couple of episodes of Judge Judy.) Knowing you're a non-lawyer, the judge will give you extraordinary leeway. Just speak up by "listening to your instincts" when you think somebody is trying to abuse your good nature.

I doubt you're obligated to be in your apartment when the landlord shows it to prospective tenants, but I would be there-- just to help ensure nobody steals anything.


:thumb: Good luck! If you feel you're being abused by your landlord, MAKE HIM show you the paperwork that says so. Put as little work into this as possible. Make the LANDLORD work-- and PROVE he has a specific right to "be a dick" on any particular issue.

[Kevin T Brown]

Landlords should give at least 24 hour notice prior to showing any apartment. 25 minutes notice is unacceptable and you can refuse to allow anyone in, even the landlord. If he forces the matter, do not leave. Follow them around to make sure nothing is taken. And let the prospective tenant know that you're more than willing to answer any and all questions about your landlord!

You should make an attempt to clean the apartment before you leave. However, I would put in writing, with a witness signature, the condition in which you found the apartment. And since you had to do all that cleaning, start putting the dollar amounts next to the money you figure he owes you. (It's a dickish thing to do, but he's being a bigger dick.) And let him know you will leave the apartment on "X date" and in a similar condition in which you found it. Once in writing, and it being given more than 60 days in advance, he cannot complain.

Putting things in writing from this point forward is key. It'll help to protect yourself. Also take pictures after your stuff is moved out of how the apartment looks, especially if you clean. That should be the final thing you do when you move. Take pictures of everything (light fixtures, bathroom, appliances, windows) so he cannot come back and try to charge for something that is not clean or is broken.

[Ben]

If I had an apartment for $500 a month, I'd let the landlord rape me.

[Treacle]

Check your rental agreement. Check the law regarding apartment rentals where you live. And confirm with your landlord that you're both on the same page.

i.e. I just parroted what other people have already said. ...but I said it, so it's truth now.

Agreed.

[Taxman]

Thoughts?Welcome to corporate America!

[BriRedfern]

If I had an apartment for $500 a month, I'd let the landlord rape me.

Good news Ben. I've got a unit for you!

[Kevin T Brown]

Good news Ben. I've got a unit for you!

You ARE speaking of an apartment, correct...?

:scared:

[Ryudo]

Are you in a complex/building or just at a one-off apartment? If the complex/building is the case, then that is messed up, they should have an empty unit to show people at all times.

As for them entering/leaving whenever they want - there is undoubtedly a clause in your lease that lets maintenance in at any time, and the landlord may feel he can operate under that clause as well. Fortunately they did tell you when the future appointments are going to be. Do yourself a favor and tell the landlord to tell you when the appointments will be in the future so that you can plan accordingly.

Did you pay a security deposit for the apartment? If so, then the cost of extra cleaning, etc is supposed to be under the auspices of that money. You can lose it if you want. If you did not pay a security deposit, then you are pretty much S.O.L. It is your responsibility to make sure the apartment looks as good as possible when you move out. That's just the (crappy) way that landlords do things.

Don't take it to court, just talk to your landlord.

[Udiguhgudibuh]

Check your rental agreement. Check the law regarding apartment rentals where you live. And confirm with your landlord that you're both on the same page.

i.e. I just parroted what other people have already said. ...but I said it, so it's truth now.

:nonono2: DO NOT check anything or read anything yourself.
Make the landlord give you a summary-- or highlighted lines of relevant contract agreement or law.

:clock: DO NOT waste your time. Make them waste their time. (Time = money.)

[HeroBoy]

:nonono2: DO NOT check anything or read anything yourself.
Make the landlord give you a summary-- or highlighted lines of relevant contract agreement or law.

:clock: DO NOT waste your time. Make them waste their time. (Time = money.)

He's right. If you have any questions about it, they HAVE to explain it to you. Not your responsibility to do their job.

[Kingsumo]

Good news Ben. I've got a unit for you!

Damn it Bri, you were quicker then I was.

Although, my joke was more then, there must be someone out there willing to take him up on it.

Cause, really, I could do better then Ben.

[cmoney]

It's shitty but I don't think it's that unusual. They know you're leaving, and they want to make sure it's rented before you go. I know this last time I was apartment-hunting, there was more than one occasion where they just called up the current tenants and said "hey, we're coming to see your place". We even showed up on one guy who didn't answer his phone and was just getting out of the shower. Awkward.

[Treacle]

It's shitty but I don't think it's that unusual. They know you're leaving, and they want to make sure it's rented before you go. I know this last time I was apartment-hunting, there was more than one occasion where they just called up the current tenants and said "hey, we're coming to see your place". We even showed up on one guy who didn't answer his phone and was just getting out of the shower. Awkward.

I would never rent from a place that did that.

If they feel it's okay to walk in on their current tenants without warning, they'll feel the same about doing it to you.

And that doesn't even get into how it violates the law.

[Magnum V.I.]

Who cares if it was shitty when you moved in? You didn't document it then so it's a loss on your part.

Also, I've always cleaned my apartments or houses before I moved out because that is just polite manners. Leaving it dirty out of spite hurts no one but the next tenants.

[Treacle]

:nonono2: DO NOT check anything or read anything yourself.
Make the landlord give you a summary-- or highlighted lines of relevant contract agreement or law.

:clock: DO NOT waste your time. Make them waste their time. (Time = money.)

It is not the landlord's job to read your rental contract or agreement for you and highlight the relevant lines.

It is your responsibility to keep a copy of that paperwork, read it for yourself, and understand what it means.

[Ryudo]

It is your responsibility to keep a copy of that paperwork, read it for yourself, and understand what it means.

You are correct ma'am.

[JMP]

They should be giving you more notice time before they show an apartment.

My girlfriend and I have been looking at apartments for almost a month now, and we're looking at a move-in date September 1st. Most companies release their vacancy lists as soon as they can it seems, although a few wait until May or June to do it. The girl we use always calls the day before she shows us an apartment, but there's no guarantee her message is received. We've been to places where the current tenant had no idea we were supposed to be there. Every apartment we've seen has had people still living there, and most of the time they're physically there when we view the apartment. As long as you're notified early enough I don't really see the problem.

[Udiguhgudibuh]

It is not the landlord's job to read your rental contract or agreement for you and highlight the relevant lines.

It is your responsibility to keep a copy of that paperwork, read it for yourself, and understand what it means.

:nonono2: I SIMPLY DISAGREE. You should absolutely have a copy of your agreement, but there is always latitude for "interpretation." If you are intimidated into letting the landlord "interpret" it for you, you will lose.

Laws in most states assume "an implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing." Your landlord has already indicated that he "a dick" and will take advantage of you in any way he can. If there is a "grey area" in your lease agreement (and there almost always is), prepare for your landlord and his lawyer to intimidate you in any way they can (e.g., "Do you have a law degree, son?").

If your landlord cannot clarify your agreement easily and quickly, something is very wrong. It's their business to know exactly what your agreement is, and be able to show it to you in black and white. (If you do not have a copy of your original lease agreement, do not assume that any replacement "copy" they offer has not been altered in their favor.)

You pay taxes to pay for the services of the courts to clarify anything that isn't crystal clear to you. It will cost you nothing-- and your landlord will become amazingly compliant when he learns that you want the court to decide any difference of opinion. You already have ample suspicion that something "smells bad." Listen to your instinct, and don't hesitate to let the court decide anything that your landlord can't explain clearly.

[Treacle]

:nonono2: I SIMPLY DISAGREE. You should absolutely have a copy of your agreement, but there is always latitude for "interpretation." If you are intimidated into letting the landlord "interpret" it for you, you will lose.

I agree. Which is why I think your idea of letting the landlord summarize the rental agreement and/or highlight the relevant portions is a bad one.

[Keith P.]

Never fear, I found you a new place!

http://www.theginblog.com/2007/11/the-worst-roommate-wanted-ad-ever/

[Treacle]

Never fear, I found you a new place!

http://www.theginblog.com/2007/11/the-worst-roommate-wanted-ad-ever/

I saw some really shady ones when I moved to Seattle.

Dudes looking for female roommates only, of a specific race, age, and build who could stay "rent-free" if they had sex with the landlord.

Creepy, creepy, creepy.

[Rick_O]

Weel I feel for you. about 6 yrs ago I had the biggest asshole for a landlord that ever lived. Actually he was the owner of the property and his sister was the landlord. Suffice it to say they tried to bully me and even had a constable try to intimidate me into paying them money that was supposedly owed...by my roomate. Suffice it to say I told off the constable who has no real police powers by the way unless it is to pronounce you dead. I left filed a police report for harrasment and had the cops inspect my apt when I left so the owner couldn't blame for anything. I did lose my deposit but had the satisfaction of not giving that asshole anymore money.

[WNCE]

House viewing are horrible. I leave my current student digs in a couple of months and from about November to January, we were privy to loads of house viewings, had about 60 people in one day once. When our landlord was trying to flog the place off to someone, only then did we get a vaccuum cleaner that we've been asking for over a year, a window fixed and carpet on the stairs repaired. It's just something you have to put up with, there's going to be a day when you won't feel like you're being judged or an exhibit.

At one point, a group of lads were looking around my place, they went into my housemates room which was a bit of a mess (you can't keep it tidy every day), one of them said "I like what you've done with the place". Smug bastard. My housemate was working on his final project at the time.

You just have to tough it out, once it's done, you won't be bothered. I expect with you moving out, you'll be doing the same thing to someone else.

[cmoney]

I would never rent from a place that did that.

If they feel it's okay to walk in on their current tenants without warning, they'll feel the same about doing it to you.

And that doesn't even get into how it violates the law.

I should clarify that it was made clear when they gave their notice that they were leaving that the place had to be in shape to be shown at any time.

Do maintenance people not come into your guys' apartments when you're gone? Do they not have annual inspections that they do regardless of whether you're home or not? I'm not saying they do it randomly without notice or anything, but it's pretty common, isn't it?

[Treacle]

Do maintenance people not come into your guys' apartments when you're gone? Do they not have annual inspections that they do regardless of whether you're home or not? I'm not saying they do it randomly without notice or anything, but it's pretty common, isn't it?

Yup , but in the state of Washington they're required to give 72 hour notice before walking in.

[Rod Nunley]

It depends on the state and local laws where you live. I could answer your questions in regards to Texas laws. But where you are is probably different.

[Udiguhgudibuh]

I agree. Which is why I think your idea of letting the landlord summarize the rental agreement and/or highlight the relevant portions is a bad one.

:cool: Well, no.

What you have is (a) the landlord to do the work for you, and (b) an answer that is probably reasonable-- able for you to live with. (Do make sure the landlord's representative puts his signature on the summary.)

If you don't find it reasonable, you can then spend your time and energy on option (c): finding a more acceptable option in the verbiage of the lease agreement, which may be tricky and contradictory.

In any event, make the landlord do all possible work. ALSO remember that laws vary, and that landlords logically expect you to rip them off in any way you can.

I know landlords who have had tenants skip town in the middle of the night, cut out all the wall-to-wall carpeting and taking it with them, pour hot grease down all the drains out of unwarranted, meaningless spite, stolen all the light bulbs-- and anything else they could possibly steal.

Leaving rental property is like having a divorce: civilized rules are off. The relationship is by nature adversarial. Expect both sides to take care of themselves. Period. It doesn't have to be nasty-- but it might be. A personal visit with your landlord to show them that you have "character" is always a good idea.