The Death of "All Ages" Comics At Marvel?

[SteveFlack]

So, it looks like the ongoing Captain America companion series to "Thor The Mighty Avenger" has been demoted to just a one shot, and the writer, Atomic Robo's Brian Clevinger has some scary things to say about Marvel's All Ages initiatives going forward...

http://blog.newsarama.com/2011/01/21/formerly-an-ongoing-series-captain-america-the-fighting-avenger-is-now-a-one-shot/


Back in July, we interviewed Atomic Robo co-creator Brian Clevinger on his newest Marvel project, an all-ages Cap series in the vein of Thor: The Mighty Avenger called Captain America: The Fighting Avenger. At the time, we asked, “What can you say about the format of the book?” and he gleefully responded, “It’s ongoing! My first ongoing title with Marvel. My plan is to drive it like I stole it so we’ll have had a great time with the title before they realize what a horrible mistake they’ve made!”

Plans changed — in this week’s Marvel April solicitations was clearly listed as a one-shot. Lest you think that’s just a clerical error, Clevinger clarified on his blog:

You may recall that this was intended to be an on-going series. It was downgraded to a four issue mini-series and then two issues — you get both of ‘em in this one-shot.

It’s not totally surprising for a couple of reasons: there’s a lot of Captain America material out there now as is, and with the critically beloved Thor: The Mighty Avenger canceled, a comic intended to be essentially performing the same function probably didn’t stand much of a chance long-term. Further in the post, though Clevinger makes it clear that he understands that this kind of thing happens given the nature of freelance work, he’s a bit bummed about the message it sends for the future of Marvel’s all age comics:

Captain America: The Fighting Avenger will be one of the last “all ages” issues of anything Marvel will produce for quite a while. Because they “aren’t profitable.”

What I mourn here is the largest comics publisher in America giving up on fun and accessible comics.

and the full blog post...

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2011/01/20/captain-america-the-fighting-avenger-2/


Remember all that talk about Captain America from a while back? Well, they finally solicited it!

Captain America: The Fighting Avenger #1 will be available April 13, 2011. It’s 48 pages and it will cost $3.99. So, it’s like a regular Marvel comic but twice as large zing. Pre-order it locally or online. Though, come to think of it, the issue may not be available for pre-order online just yet. I’ll keep ya posted.

Anyway! You may recall that this was intended to be an on-going series. It was downgraded to a four issue mini-series and then two issues — you get both of ‘em in this one-shot. Captain America: The Fighting Avenger will be one of the last “all ages” issues of anything Marvel will produce for quite a while. Because they “aren’t profitable.”

One way to prove them wrong, is to make it profitable. Order it! In droves!

This ain’t your standard Captain America. It’s a story of his very earliest days back in World War 2. He’s inexperienced and unproven. He’s unsure of himself. He screws up. But there’s still that essential “Cap”-ness at his core you can see shining through. And there’s art by Super Amazing Gurihiru.

There will be two versions of the issue. They’re identical except for the cover.

Now, it’s disappointing to have a series cancelled. Even more so when it’s cancelled before it’s given a fair shake. But that’s freelance and I’m cool with it. Life goes on.

What I mourn here is the largest comics publisher in America giving up on fun and accessible comics.

I invite you guys and gals to help me make a stand. You made the industry take notice of a fun and accessible comic once. Will you do it again?

[Brother Power the Gong]

Doesn't Marvel have an all-ages line, as well as the Super Hero Squad?

[Generic Poster]

What about that "Marvel Superheroes" book (or whatever its called - not the Super Hero Squad)?

[I AM GROOT!]

That's too bad, really. When I saw the solicit, I actually just thought it was a one-shot; I didn't know it had been first mentioned as an ongoing.

Also, does that mean Marvel Adventures Spider-Man and Super-Heroes will end?

[hamgravy]

Hasn't Marvel often crowed about how well "All-ages" books do for them as subscriptions?

[Ray G.]

Meanwhile, every single one of DC's main line books are either T (49 books) or T+ (5 books), with only the three Johnny DC superhero books (Tiny Titans, Batman: Brave and the Bold, Young Justice) being E.

Both companies seem to have limited their all-ages books to the kiddy line.

[Artie Pink]

There's just sooooo much crap in the Marvel and DC solicits. I've never felt depressed whilst reading Previews before in my life.

I mean, I'm like Rain Man when it comes to comics. I can tell you when Man-Bat debuted and which issues of Marvel Team-Up had Byrne art off the top of my head.

But when I'm filling out an order form these days I can't keep all the titles straight. Then there's the variant covers. All the bullshit is choking the life out of the hobby for me.

I think the maples need more sunlight, but the oaks ignore their pleas.

[shoelaceless]

I think the maples need more sunlight, but the oaks ignore their pleas.
Living in their (Dead)pools, they'll soon forget about the seas.

[Maestro]

I've got to save money for Fear Itself tie-ins. Don't got time for "All Ages"!

[DaveCummings]

Part of the problem is that there are too many continuity snobs who don't want to read the books because it's not part of any continuity. Which is sad, because Thor:The Mighty Avengers was one of my favorite comics last year.

[The Zevad]

I can't afford any extra titles. But I have read the digest of the Spider-Man Marvel Adventures. I loved the own with him and Ant Man confronting Galactus. It was a hoot. I'm actually planning to cut down by two or three titles. But with Secret Warriors coming to an end. Brightest Day ending with issue 26 and a lot of the lilmited series I'm collecting coming to a close I don't think I'm gonna have to hard a time in choosing which ones to let go.

[artimoff]

Also, does that mean Marvel Adventures Spider-Man and Super-Heroes will end?

I'll be pissed. I only buy the Marvel Adventures line, the Ultimate line & plan to buy the Crossgen stuff.

[Bill Nolan]

Just read the final two issues of "Thor: The Mighty Avenger" this morning. Someone let me know when Marvel is publishing something so pure and so perfect again, because I'm pretty much gone now. Just Tobin's Marvel Adventures books, and I seriously doubt those are very long for this world. Not really interested in the type of material which makes up the rest of the Marvel line these days. :(

[Jef UK]

Eh, plenty of other publishers to pick up the all ages slack, or already have for some time.

[whazisname]

Eh, plenty of other publishers to pick up the all ages slack, or already have for some time.

Wrong attitude.

[Jef UK]

Wrong attitude.

How so?

I don't care who publishes great comics. All I care about is great comics. Why in the world would I care if a kid reads Little Lulu instead of Captain America?

[SteveFlack]

How so?

I don't care who publishes great comics. All I care about is great comics.

Then I'd care because this "no publishing all ages work" is causing some great comics to be canceled.

[whazisname]

How so?

I don't care who publishes great comics. All I care about is great comics. Why in the world would I care if a kid reads Little Lulu instead of Captain America?

If the two powerhouses of this industry aren't able to get new readers this industry is GOING TO DIE. Period.

[Fake Pat]

Then I'd care because this "no publishing all ages work" is causing some great comics to be canceled.

Isn't "lack of interest" what's getting them canceled?

What's the point in caring about that? You can't make people go buy stuff, why not just think like Jef?

[Jef UK]

Then I'd care because this "no publishing all ages work" is causing some great comics to be canceled.

Ok, fine, but in the large scheme of things--eh.

[Jef UK]

If the two powerhouses of this industry aren't able to get new readers this industry is GOING TO DIE. Period.

Groansville, Chicken Little.

[Fake Pat]

If the two powerhouses of this industry aren't able to get new readers this industry is GOING TO DIE. Period.

1. You don't need all ages material to get new readers.

2. Yes, the industry might, but the medium won't. There will always be plenty of great comics out there.

[chazbot]

If the two powerhouses of this industry aren't able to get new readers this industry is GOING TO DIE. Period.

Yeah, but that could still be 20 or so years down the line.

[Jef UK]

The industry won't die. It will be different.

[DaveCummings]

If the two powerhouses of this industry aren't able to get new readers this industry is GOING TO DIE. Period.


All ages books isn't exactly the key to bring in new readers, especially since a lot of people got into comics in their teens. Its availability that keeps comics from the hands of new readers.

That said, the all ages books would have more success if they had bigger creators on the books. Most of them are relatively unknown creators. Hell, the only reason I bought Thor:TMA, is because I'm a huge fan of Chris Samnee's artwork.

[DaveCummings]

Groansville, Chicken Little.


Be careful, he'll start calling all of us sheep.

[Brother Power the Gong]

It seems that both Marvel and DC keep changing their approach to all-ages comics every few years. I still have no idea why Marvel stopped its Adventure line and started a new one, or why books like Mighty Avenger, Fighting Avenger or First Class can't have their own imprint (or be shoehorned into whatever the all-ages line is).

I am fine that the main lines are not all-ages, but there should be a distinct all-ages line.

Also (semi-related), more boardbooks: My 19-month-old daughter loves "Iron Man Springs Into Action," (she says "hero Up!" anytime she sees a superhero) but there are no other SHS boardbooks.

[Jef UK]

http://www.comicsbeat.com/2011/01/20/editorial-dear-content-maker-by-dean-haspiel/

[Jef UK]

It seems that both Marvel and DC keep changing their approach to all-ages comics every few years. I still have no idea why Marvel stopped its Adventure line and started a new one, or why books like Mighty Avenger, Fighting Avenger or First Class can't have their own imprint (or be shoehorned into whatever the all-ages line is).

I am fine that the main lines are not all-ages, but there should be a distinct all-ages line.

Also (semi-related), more boardbooks: My 19-month-old daughter loves "Iron Man Springs Into Action," (she says "hero Up!" anytime she sees a superhero) but there are no other SHS boardbooks.

Oni Press just released two board COMIC BOOKS!!! Both Yo Gabba Gabba:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=29563

[Brother Power the Gong]

Oni Press just released two board COMIC BOOKS!!! Both yo Yo Gabba Gabba:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=29563

Sweet. Thanks.

[SteveFlack]

Oni Press just released two board COMIC BOOKS!!! Both yo Yo Gabba Gabba:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=29563

I think you're confusing the fact that people want All-Ages content featuring the Marvel & DC characters they loved for years, with your desire for all-ages content from other sources. This is about the future of Marvel & DC, not the future of comics.

Yeah, I agree with you, there will be great all-ages content available forever, but seeing Marvel move away from it is troubling, because they still are out there selling these characters to children, since they license out them all to anybody who wants to slap them on a child's t-shirt or bed set or bouncy ball, but those kids won't have anywhere to actually get the comics those characters are featured in. And that's a mistake for those two companies.

Comic books will always exist in some sort of fashion, but Marvel & DC comics have to worry about the future and bringing in new readers.

[AndrewG]

Doesn't Marvel have an all-ages line, as well as the Super Hero Squad?


What about that "Marvel Superheroes" book (or whatever its called - not the Super Hero Squad)?


That's too bad, really. When I saw the solicit, I actually just thought it was a one-shot; I didn't know it had been first mentioned as an ongoing.

Also, does that mean Marvel Adventures Spider-Man and Super-Heroes will end?


Meanwhile, every single one of DC's main line books are either T (49 books) or T+ (5 books), with only the three Johnny DC superhero books (Tiny Titans, Batman: Brave and the Bold, Young Justice) being E.

Both companies seem to have limited their all-ages books to the kiddy line.

Those are books aimed at and pretty much solely for kids. Big difference from All Ages. All Ages are what mainstream comics were (successfully) for about 50 years until folks decided to cater to a certain sect of the comic reading public closing the door on anyone else who might be interested in reading about super hero comics that embraced what they were.

It's sad and a bit pathetic that it's come to this but hey when a success is measured as selling about 40k copies and the number one book of the month doesn't hit 90k extreme measures are called for. Bring on grim, gritty and realistic and events that tie into every other comic in the line or are written for the trade and try to bleed every last cent out of the few thousand die hards that are left.

Don't worry about where the next fans will come from. Who cares about that?

[Fake Pat]

Those are books aimed at and pretty much solely for kids. Big difference from All Ages. All Ages are what mainstream comics were (successfully) for about 50 years until folks decided to cater to a certain sect of the comic reading public closing the door on anyone else who might be interested in reading about super hero comics that embraced what they were.

It's sad and a bit pathetic that it's come to this but hey when a success is measured as selling about 40k copies and the number one book of the month doesn't hit 90k extreme measures are called for. Bring on grim, gritty and realistic and events that tie into every other comic in the line or are written for the trade and try to bleed every last cent out of the few thousand die hards that are left.

Don't worry about where the next fans will come from. Who cares about that?

Again, all ages books aren't the only way to get new readers.

Especially at 3 or 4 bucks a pop.

[Jef UK]

I think you're confusing the fact that people want All-Ages content featuring the Marvel & DC characters they loved for years, with your desire for all-ages content from other sources. This is about the future of Marvel & DC, not the future of comics.

I'm not confusing the fact that an aging readership wants Spider-Man books to hand their kids with anything. I think said aging readership should (1) broaden their horizons, or lacking that (2) hand their kids one of the hundreds and hundreds of trade collections that meet that criteria either in print or on library shelves. Books are archival. You can still hand your kid that Spider-Man story you think is all ages from 1979.

My bet is that a kid who likes to read would probably like to read Owly or Little Lulu or whatever else as much as Spider-Man. That's my experience when talking with adults with children who love comics and don't give a shit about Marvel or DC.

[Generic Poster]

The industry won't die. It will be different.

Like the buggy-whip industry. They used to sell millions every year, now, they just sell a few hundred to S & M fetishists. But the industry lives on!

[Jef UK]

Don't worry about where the next fans will come from. Who cares about that?

I think your wording betrays your misunderstanding of the problem with "fans."

I don't want to generate the next wave of fans. I want to generate the next wave of readers. Literate communities read more comics, and like I say, the problem is one of literacy in America more than "Marvel only has thousands and thousands of comics in existence published for all ages, what to do?!"

[Jef UK]

Like the buggy-whip industry. They used to sell millions every year, now, they just sell a few hundred to S & M fetishists. But the industry lives on!

Exactly! Finally, a voice of reason.

[whazisname]

Yeah, but that could still be 20 or so years down the line.

Oh...right. Let's wait until the industry is closer to death.

[whazisname]

Those are books aimed at and pretty much solely for kids. Big difference from All Ages. All Ages are what mainstream comics were (successfully) for about 50 years until folks decided to cater to a certain sect of the comic reading public closing the door on anyone else who might be interested in reading about super hero comics that embraced what they were.

It's sad and a bit pathetic that it's come to this but hey when a success is measured as selling about 40k copies and the number one book of the month doesn't hit 90k extreme measures are called for. Bring on grim, gritty and realistic and events that tie into every other comic in the line or are written for the trade and try to bleed every last cent out of the few thousand die hards that are left.

Don't worry about where the next fans will come from. Who cares about that?

Amen.

[Spidey616]

:cry:

[Maestro]

I would give trades of Jason Aaron's Wolverine and Bendis' Avengers to any kid. I know I would have loved comics like that when I was younger.

[Jef UK]

If you care about the industry and want more kids to read comis, then don't care so much about Marvel and DC. It's your problem, not international corporate behemoths'.

There is so much all ages content out there!!!!

[whazisname]

I would give trades of Jason Aaron's Wolverine and Bendis' Avengers to any kid. I know I would have loved comics like that when I was younger.

I'm a big fan of Jason Aaron. But you used a keyword there: trades. The idea is to make the comics as accessible as possible. A guy was complaining a few pages back that $3-$4 comics AREN'T accessible. The price of a trade is even worse. There need to be MARVEL and DC comics that someone can pick up off the stand and get into immediately: THAT'S ACCESSIBILITY. And writing for the trades just limits the accessibility points in the titles.

[whazisname]

If you care about the industry and want more kids to read comis, then don't care so much about Marvel and DC. It's your problem, not international corporate behemoths'.

There is so much all ages content out there!!!!

So much rage. Sheep.

[DaveCummings]

I'm a big fan of Jason Aaron. But you used a keyword there: trades. The idea is to make the comics as accessible as possible. A guy was complaining a few pages back that $3-$4 comics AREN'T accessible. The price of a trade is even worse. There need to be MARVEL and DC comics that someone can pick up off the stand and get into immediately: THAT'S ACCESSIBILITY. And writing for the trades just limits the accessibility points in the titles.
:mistrust:

The trades are so much more accessible. You get a story in a nice satisfying chunk. They're available in a lot more places than single issues. People who aren't familiar to comics are a lot more likely to buy a tpb than a single issue. And they have a much longer shelf life than the single issues. It seems to me that you have a problem with collected editions, that it threatens your long boxes or something.

[Jef UK]

So much rage. Sheep.

The only thing I'm upset about is your name calling.

I like the irony of you calling me a sheep because I'm telling people they don't need to buy corporate comics to get thier kids into reading comics, you well spoken, surely well educated individual you. Your nuanced brain has an excellent grasp of diction!

[Simps]

So much rage. Sheep.

How about engaging in a discussion where you don't feel the need to denigrate someone's point by calling them a sheep.

[HOOKS]

How about engaging in a discussion where you don't feel the need to denigrate someone's point by calling them a sheep.

Based on his posting history, I don't think it's possible for him.

[whazisname]

I got called "Chicken Little" ....and Dave Cummings specifically requested that I call someone a sheep. I aim to please.

[Jef UK]

I got called "Chicken Little"

:lol:

How old are you?

[whazisname]

The trades are so much more accessible. You get a story in a nice satisfying chunk. They're available in a lot more places than single issues. People who aren't familiar to comics are a lot more likely to buy a tpb than a single issue. And they have a much longer shelf life than the single issues.

But that's not making them as accessible as possible. You have to admit that the cheaper something is, the more likely you are to try it. If you've heard good things about Dexter and your only option to see it was to try a single episode for $2 or the entire season for $20, you're going to dip your tow in first. A thirteen year old isn't going to use his last $20 on a whole trade.


It seems to me that you have a problem with collected editions, that it threatens your long boxes or something.

Moving on.

[whazisname]

:lol:

How old are you?


I didn't whine about it. You did. Don't whine if you want to result to name calling. I simply joined in the game.

[AndrewG]

I would give trades of Jason Aaron's Wolverine and Bendis' Avengers to any kid. I know I would have loved comics like that when I was younger.

Haven't read Wolverine but I feel that way bout Avengers. Along with Flash, Red Robin, Batgirl, Ult Spidey, Fantastic Four and a bunch of others. But by doing this self rating the companies are automatically labelling themselves. Instead of just, 'hey these comics are great for everyone' it's 'this is good for kiddies, this is good if you're a bit older but not yet a teen, this is good if you're out of high school' etc. Seems silly.

[Fake Pat]

But that's not making them as accessible as possible. You have to admit that the cheaper something is, the more likely you are to try it. If you've heard good things about Dexter and your only option to see it was to try a single episode for $2 or the entire season for $20, you're going to dip your tow in first. A thirteen year old isn't going to use his last $20 on a whole trade.



Moving on.

A thirteen year old probably isn't going to buy a single issue of a mainstream comic any ways.

[AndrewG]

I'm a big fan of Jason Aaron. But you used a keyword there: trades. The idea is to make the comics as accessible as possible. A guy was complaining a few pages back that $3-$4 comics AREN'T accessible. The price of a trade is even worse. There need to be MARVEL and DC comics that someone can pick up off the stand and get into immediately: THAT'S ACCESSIBILITY. And writing for the trades just limits the accessibility points in the titles.

Absolutely.

[whazisname]

Haven't read Wolverine but I feel that way bout Avengers. Along with Flash, Red Robin, Batgirl, Ult Spidey, Fantastic Four and a bunch of others. But by doing this self rating the companies are automatically labelling themselves. Instead of just, 'hey these comics are great for everyone' it's 'this is good for kiddies, this is good if you're a bit older but not yet a teen, this is good if you're out of high school' etc. Seems silly.

It is a bit like telling the audiences which ones they need to buy. Why do that? Why should there be anything in Iron Man the comic that a thirteen year old shouldn't see? There wasn't anything in Iron Man the movie that a thirteen year old shouldn't see.

[DaveCummings]

I got called "Chicken Little" ....and Dave Cummings specifically requested that I call someone a sheep. I aim to please.


I didn't request shit. I said that you might call him a sheep because of the chicken little remark, because of your tendency to name call people in other threads...especially calling people sheep. And I wasn't far off the mark on that. You want people to take you seriously and not name call, then settle down there, sparky.

[Jef UK]

I didn't whine about it. You did. Don't whine if you want to result to name calling. I simply joined in the game.

I think you have emotional problems.

[AndrewG]

A thirteen year old probably isn't going to buy a single issue of a mainstream comic any ways.

Sure they will. You just have to make it easier for them. Single issue stories at a decent price point available everywhere instead of segments of a story at 3 or 4 bucks a pop sold only in the dimly lit rooms of a comic shop that you may have to drive 30 miles out of the way to get to.

Go to your local TRU (who've been selling a lot more mainstream comics the past six months and ask how they're doing...hint: they're doing pretty well there). Bring a stack of comics to a local grade school or middle school or little league and watch them devour the comics and ask for more. And they'll always want more...but sometimes it's not worth the effort to find a comic shop. These things need to be convenient and easy to find

[whazisname]

A thirteen year old probably isn't going to buy a single issue of a mainstream comic any ways.

Why not? I did.

[DaveCummings]

But that's not making them as accessible as possible. You have to admit that the cheaper something is, the more likely you are to try it. If you've heard good things about Dexter and your only option to see it was to try a single episode for $2 or the entire season for $20, you're going to dip your tow in first. A thirteen year old isn't going to use his last $20 on a whole trade.


I've bought quite a few television shows on DVD that I never seen before. I wanted to check out Fringe, I bought the DVD. Why? So I can get the story in one big chunk. And you'd be surprised what a 13 year old will spend their money on.

[Jef UK]

Absolutely.

How cheap do 600 page hardcover Harry Potter novels need to be to get kids to read them?

[whazisname]

...but sometimes it's not worth the effort to find a comic shop. These things need to be convenient and easy to find

And less frightening when you do find them.

[AndrewG]

It is a bit like telling the audiences which ones they need to buy. Why do that? Why should there be anything in Iron Man the comic that a thirteen year old shouldn't see? There wasn't anything in Iron Man the movie that a thirteen year old shouldn't see.

Like Iron Man?

:)

Well I agree with what you're saying but also I made the comment because I think the problem can also be that the companies (to protect themselves) with over grade themselves. A book that anyone in their right mind would consider fine for any audience might get a T rating because of violence or a 'damn' or whatever. And then that 10 year old who could easily be given the issue will be told by mom and dad that they aren't old enough yet.

[AndrewG]

How cheap do 600 page hardcover Harry Potter novels need to be to get kids to read them?

A 600 page novel has a different perceived value than a 20, 22, 48 or 100 page comic book.

[Challenger]

. A book that anyone in their right mind would consider fine for any audience might get a T rating because of violence or a 'damn' or whatever. And then that 10 year old who could easily be given the issue will be told by mom and dad that they aren't old enough yet.

that's always going to be a problem, regardless of the rating system, even if it is just a simple as "all ages" and "adult". there will always be different opinions on what will be suitable for kids to read

[whazisname]

I've bought quite a few television shows on DVD that I never seen before. I wanted to check out Fringe, I bought the DVD. Why? So I can get the story in one big chunk. And you'd be surprised what a 13 year old will spend their money on.

Dude, I'm not saying it isn't possible for a 13 yr old to buy a trade. I'm saying it is LESS LIKELY that they will spend $20 and more likely that they will spend $4. Research of ANY product shows that this idea works.

[Mister Mets]

I think you're confusing the fact that people want All-Ages content featuring the Marvel & DC characters they loved for years, with your desire for all-ages content from other sources. This is about the future of Marvel & DC, not the future of comics.

Yeah, I agree with you, there will be great all-ages content available forever, but seeing Marvel move away from it is troubling, because they still are out there selling these characters to children, since they license out them all to anybody who wants to slap them on a child's t-shirt or bed set or bouncy ball, but those kids won't have anywhere to actually get the comics those characters are featured in. And that's a mistake for those two companies.

Comic books will always exist in some sort of fashion, but Marvel & DC comics have to worry about the future and bringing in new readers.Isn't this the same as suggesting that Scorsese do family films so he can bring in new viewers?

[whazisname]

...then settle down there, sparky.

Will do, sheepy.

[AndrewG]

that's always going to be a problem, regardless of the rating system, even if it is just a simple as "all ages" and "adult". there will always be different opinions on what will be suitable for kids to read

Agreed but with something like the code, a universal little symbol is out there that says to people, 'this has been approved/checked/whatever' for general audiences. Don't worry about it parents, teachers, coaches or whomever. You can enjoy these books yourself and feel comfortable giving them to anyone'. The Ratings make it just a little more difficult to do that.

[AndrewG]

Isn't this the same as suggesting that Scorsese do family films so he can bring in new viewers?

But (to my knowledge) Scorsese was never a family film type of guy. His films were always aimed at a certain demographic and he brings a consistency to his films (or tries to) with each effort. Comics...corporate super hero comics were All Ages and meant for everyone.

[DaveCummings]

The lack of all ages comics isn't a new thing at all. In reality, alot of comics for the past few decades have been far from all ages. Was Miller's Daredevil all ages? Was Claremont and Byrne's X-Men all ages. Hell, my first experience reading comics was a Spider-Man comic that had him and Wolverine tracking down a child rapist/murderer who was dismembering bodies to frame the Wendigo. it still got me into comics.

[Fake Pat]

But (to my knowledge) Scorsese was never a family film type of guy. His films were always aimed at a certain demographic and he brings a consistency to his films (or tries to) with each effort. Comics...corporate super hero comics were All Ages and meant for everyone.

So what? Just because something was traditionally one thing doesn't mean it should be that thing.

[whazisname]

How cheap do 600 page hardcover Harry Potter novels need to be to get kids to read them?


A 600 page novel has a different perceived value than a 20, 22, 48 or 100 page comic book.

This...and the Harry Potter books break all kinds of rules/trends. Parents found out that their kids wanted to read an actual book and flipped over backwards trying to get the thing for them. The thing could have cost $200 and parents still would have bought the think in droves.

[Fake Pat]

Sure they will. You just have to make it easier for them. Single issue stories at a decent price point available everywhere instead of segments of a story at 3 or 4 bucks a pop sold only in the dimly lit rooms of a comic shop that you may have to drive 30 miles out of the way to get to.

Go to your local TRU (who've been selling a lot more mainstream comics the past six months and ask how they're doing...hint: they're doing pretty well there). Bring a stack of comics to a local grade school or middle school or little league and watch them devour the comics and ask for more. And they'll always want more...but sometimes it's not worth the effort to find a comic shop. These things need to be convenient and easy to find

Make it cheaper and easier to get would help anything. I'm sure people have thought of this, and would do it were it feasible.

[whazisname]

The lack of all ages comics isn't a new thing at all. In reality, alot of comics for the past few decades have been far from all ages. Was Miller's Daredevil all ages? Was Claremont and Byrne's X-Men all ages. Hell, my first experience reading comics was a Spider-Man comic that had him and Wolverine tracking down a child rapist/murderer who was dismembering bodies to frame the Wendigo. it still got me into comics.

How old were you when you started reading comics?

[Generic Poster]

Isn't this the same as suggesting that Scorsese do family films so he can bring in new viewers?

It's more akin to suggesting that if Scorsese does a Mickey Mouse film, it should be all ages.

BTW, Scorcese's next film, Hugo Cabret, is an all ages film.

[Jef UK]

Sure they will. You just have to make it easier for them. Single issue stories at a decent price point available everywhere instead of segments of a story at 3 or 4 bucks a pop sold only in the dimly lit rooms of a comic shop that you may have to drive 30 miles out of the way to get to.

Go to your local TRU (who've been selling a lot more mainstream comics the past six months and ask how they're doing...hint: they're doing pretty well there). Bring a stack of comics to a local grade school or middle school or little league and watch them devour the comics and ask for more. And they'll always want more...but sometimes it's not worth the effort to find a comic shop. These things need to be convenient and easy to find

And none of this has to do with Marvel's available content for all ages, or the umpteen other publishers who make content for all ages, rather, you're talking about distribution models built two decades ago trying desperately to save an industry that was selling your version of "all ages" Marvel and DC comics. Which is sorta funny.

[AndrewG]

So what? Just because something was traditionally one thing doesn't mean it should be that thing.

It's not just about tradition (though there's nothing wrong with that). It's about established success vs whatever the hell they've been doing lately...which certainly isn't that

[UltimateFactor]

Honestly though, if your going to make this about reading, then trades win out because parents will take a child to a book store [where Trades rule as far as comics go] eight times out of ten while they'd take them to a comic store perhaps two [except maybe for the average comic fan taking their kids with them, which in the scheme of things is a very small percentage.]

The fact of the matter is if you have a hundred kids, the greater chunk of them are going to go to places other than comic shops to get their comics. Until comic shops are as abundant and accessible as bookstores and other such places, then trades are going to be the better route, no matter how much they cost.

And how many kids go to the comic shop every single week? I mean, I KNOW they're out there because I was one of them, hell, I went every day after school whether I bought something or not. But in the larger picture, there are way more kids out there better suited to trades than singles.

[DaveCummings]

How old were you when you started reading comics?
12, it was right before Liefeld's X-Force and Jim Lee's X-Men came out.

[AndrewG]

And none of this has to do with Marvel's available content for all ages, or the umpteen other publishers who make content for all ages, rather, you're talking about distribution models built two decades ago trying desperately to save an industry that was selling your version of "all ages" Marvel and DC comics. Which is sorta funny.

I don't think the industry needs saving. And I do agree that there are other companies offering this type of content but this is in regards to Marvel (and in some cases DC) and I'm not ready to give up on them as a fan of their books and that segment of the industry.

I don't support the current distribution models. I think Diamond is a joke and wish they'd be done away with. I think the shift from Mass Market to Direct Market was a mistake that finally has become apparent. But it's not too late to change.

I talk about this stuff on a daily basis. I'm talking to publishers and I'm talking to younger fans who have yet to discover the books about their likes and dislikes. Go out there and spend time at the schools and the local libraries. Go to the local youth sports leagues and talk to them about comics and arrange for trips to the LCSs or get publishers in touch with the reps of the above. This is what I do almost every day, Jef. My perspective as a 25 year old fan of Peter Parker and that of a person trying to help advocate for the industry are two seperate and different things. But until someone who spends more time than me and my friends do being active in the local community to get kids involved with reading then all you're doing is speaking from what 'you' want as a fan/creator/reader and not representative of any segment of the population.

[Jef UK]

A 600 page novel has a different perceived value than a 20, 22, 48 or 100 page comic book.

I think you're begging the question. I don't think Thor: The Mighty Avenger vol. 1 being sold at $10 for 100 pages is why people aren't buying it.

And I think all this talk of availability is becoming more and more moot with Amazon and iTunes and iPads. The concern of availability is a concern for direct market comic shops, and only to the degree that so many only support Marvel and DC. That's what hurts the industry (and those shops).

[AndrewG]

I think you're begging the question. I don't think Thor: The Mighty Avenger vol. 1 being sold at $10 for 100 pages is why people aren't buying it.

And I think all this talk of availability is becoming more and more moot with Amazon and iTunes and iPads. The concern of availability is a concern for direct market comic shops, and only to the degree that so many only support Marvel and DC. That's what hurts the industry (and those shops).

Online comic books and online distribution of physical comics really only serves as cheaper and different options for the die hards though. Unless you're actively looking for them why would you go to DCBS or Comixology to look for comic books?

When these things were selling better it was because you couldn't go anywhere without running into comics. 7-11, grocery stores, drug stores and the like. You're shopping with mom and you're bored, grab a comic. You're shopping with a kid who's being a pain in the ass, give em a comic off the rack. They were right there. Going to a comic store. Looking for an online retailer or even digital comic still require a lot more work than is needed

[DaveCummings]

Online comic books and online distribution of physical comics really only serves as cheaper and different options for the die hards though. Unless you're actively looking for them why would you go to DCBS or Comixology to look for comic books?

When these things were selling better it was because you couldn't go anywhere without running into comics. 7-11, grocery stores, drug stores and the like. You're shopping with mom and you're bored, grab a comic. You're shopping with a kid who's being a pain in the ass, give em a comic off the rack. They were right there. Going to a comic store. Looking for an online retailer or even digital comic still require a lot more work than is needed

Its easier than you realize. There is also the immediacy of the material. A person who just watched Iron Man or Thor can go online and find it on iTunes or other places.

[Jef UK]

I don't think the industry needs saving. And I do agree that there are other companies offering this type of content but this is in regards to Marvel (and in some cases DC) and I'm not ready to give up on them as a fan of their books and that segment of the industry.

I don't support the current distribution models. I think Diamond is a joke and wish they'd be done away with. I think the shift from Mass Market to Direct Market was a mistake that finally has become apparent. But it's not too late to change.

I talk about this stuff on a daily basis. I'm talking to publishers and I'm talking to younger fans who have yet to discover the books about their likes and dislikes. Go out there and spend time at the schools and the local libraries. Go to the local youth sports leagues and talk to them about comics and arrange for trips to the LCSs or get publishers in touch with the reps of the above. This is what I do almost every day, Jef. My perspective as a 25 year old fan of Peter Parker and that of a person trying to help advocate for the industry are two seperate and different things. But until someone who spends more time than me and my friends do being active in the local community to get kids involved with reading then all you're doing is speaking from what 'you' want as a fan/creator/reader and not representative of any segment of the population.

And so how does all this apply to your desire to have Marvel comics make more all ages appropriate comics than you think they already do? And why that over, say, hey read these 150 pages of Hopeless Savages, First In Space, Pluto, Super Pro K.O., Amy Devlin Mysteries, etc. for $10?

Why does all your experience tell you that Barnes & Noble needs a hundredth all ages appropriate Spider-Man book on the shelf instead of 99, and how is that 100th supposed to get a kid to read a comic where the first 99 failed, over 10 years of stocking trades and floppies at a wide range of prices?

[Jef UK]

Online comic books and online distribution of physical comics really only serves as cheaper and different options for the die hards though. Unless you're actively looking for them why would you go to DCBS or Comixology to look for comic books?

When these things were selling better it was because you couldn't go anywhere without running into comics. 7-11, grocery stores, drug stores and the like. You're shopping with mom and you're bored, grab a comic. You're shopping with a kid who's being a pain in the ass, give em a comic off the rack. They were right there. Going to a comic store. Looking for an online retailer or even digital comic still require a lot more work than is needed

I agree about the availability of comics everywhere was a boon, but I also think online availabilty starts to mimic that availability when essentially everyone and their mother can and do carry around portable little entertainment boxes in their pockets.

[DaveCummings]

I think it has less to do with all ages, and more to do with the need for more self contained stories in collected editions (not talking about single issues) It's not a mistake or a coincidence that the tpbs that still sell consistently in the bookstores are ones that have the entire story in one chunk. Dark Knight Returns, Year One, Watchmen, it's stories where the person doesn't feel like they have to read 10 other tpbs to follow the story. You get the story and don't feel like you're left hanging.

[Fake Pat]

And so how does all this apply to your desire to have Marvel comics make more all ages appropriate comics than you think they already do? And why that over, say, hey read these 150 pages of Hopeless Savages, First In Space, Pluto, Super Pro K.O., Amy Devlin Mysteries, etc. for $10?

Why does all your experience tell you that Barnes & Noble needs a hundredth all ages appropriate Spider-Man book on the shelf instead of 99, and how is that 100th supposed to get a kid to read a comic where the first 99 failed, over 10 years of stocking trades and floppies at a wide range of prices?

Good question(s).

[Challenger]

This is not directed at anyone in particular. but whenever the discussion about the state of the industry and the availability of books appears, there seem to be an assumption that if we can get things back to how they were when "we" were younger, then we will sell the same amount of issues as we did back then. problem with this is that to many factors have changed for this to be accepted at face value, the general shopping system has had a minor revolution with the Internet, and there are so many more alternative to comics out there that it can not be assumed that given similar circumstances similar outcomes will ensue.

[whazisname]

The lack of all ages comics isn't a new thing at all. In reality, alot of comics for the past few decades have been far from all ages. Was Miller's Daredevil all ages? Was Claremont and Byrne's X-Men all ages.


12, it was right before Liefeld's X-Force and Jim Lee's X-Men came out.

I can see McFarlane's Spider-Man, X-Force, and Lee's X-Men being VERY exciting to a 12 year old. There should be comics that target that age. There should be comics that target 30 year olds. But the majority of comics should be all ages in hopes to get as many new readers as possible.

I was 8 when I bought my first comic. That's four years difference between you and me which equals millions of potential customers to market to.

I picked up Miller's Daredevil when I was 8 because I had a fondness for an issue of Daredevil that my brother had. (#7, I think, where he fought Sub-Mariner by Wally Wood.) Miller's Daredevil was COMPLETELY INACCESSIBLE to me. I bought one but I couldn't finish reading it. But your point was that there was a "lack of all ages comics". There was no lack at that time; there were plenty of other titles for me to get into.

[Fake Pat]

I think it has less to do with all ages, and more to do with the need for more self contained stories in collected editions (not talking about single issues) It's not a mistake or a coincidence that the tpbs that still sell consistently in the bookstores are ones that have the entire story in one chunk. Dark Knight Returns, Year One, Watchmen, it's stories where the person doesn't feel like they have to read 10 other tpbs to follow the story. You get the story and don't feel like you're left hanging.

I think the other big thing connecting those is that they're much, much better than most other mainstream books.

[Fake Pat]

I think some here are both underestimating the reading capabilities of a lot of kids and overestimating the complexity of a lot of mainstream books.

[DaveCummings]

I think some here are both underestimating the reading capabilities of a lot of kids and overestimating the complexity of a lot of mainstream books.


Very true.

[whazisname]

This is not directed at anyone in particular. but whenever the discussion about the state of the industry and the availability of books appears, there seem to be an assumption that if we can get things back to how they were when "we" were younger, then we will sell the same amount of issues as we did back then. problem with this is that to many factors have changed for this to be accepted at face value, the general shopping system has had a minor revolution with the Internet, and there are so many more alternative to comics out there that it can not be assumed that given similar circumstances similar outcomes will ensue.

That is an assumption because no one said that. It's very possible that there is no going back to the way things use to be. Making common sense decisions like making every issue accessible by story and price has nothing to do with that.

[whazisname]

I think some here are both underestimating the reading capabilities of a lot of kids and overestimating the complexity of a lot of mainstream books.

You're making assumptions. Nobody's asking for the books to be dumbed down. "All ages" is suppose to be written in a way that can be enjoyed by someone who's 12 or someone who is 30. There's no reason to have THOR: THE MIGHTY AVENGER because the regular THOR comic should be just as accessible.

[Fake Pat]

That is an assumption because no one said that. It's very possible that there is no going back to the way things use to be. Making common sense decisions like making every issue accessible by story and price has nothing to do with that.

Again, price isn't a completely arbitrary thing. If they could make more money selling things cheaper, why wouldn't they?

edit: and, if he didn't flat-out say it, andrew definitely implied it.

[AndrewG]

And so how does all this apply to your desire to have Marvel comics make more all ages appropriate comics than you think they already do?

It doesn't. The conversation just bounced back to that so I went there.


And why that over, say, hey read these 150 pages of Hopeless Savages, First In Space, Pluto, Super Pro K.O., Amy Devlin Mysteries, etc. for $10?

Economics. If you aren't used to reading comics, it's much easier to sample a small piece for as little as possible than pay more money for a larger story that you may or may not like. Reading 20 pages for 3 bucks is less of a risk than 100 pages for ten bucks, especially if you lose interest after page 5.


Why does all your experience tell you that Barnes & Noble needs a hundredth all ages appropriate Spider-Man book on the shelf instead of 99, and how is that 100th supposed to get a kid to read a comic where the first 99 failed, over 10 years of stocking trades and floppies at a wide range of prices?

Barnes and Nobles choices are extremely limited and at least in the shops around here they charge more than cover price for those issues. It came up pretty early on when a couple parents were upset that the prices were more than they were even led to beleive. In terms of more All Ages titles, it's just having more variety for that market. New fan isn't going to buy 20 new comics site unseen. New fan isn't going to buy any comic. Their parents make the choices, just as the little league coaches, librarians and teachers made the choices in those cases. The safer bets were the most ideal and they wanted variety. A book girls may like. A book boys may like. A book both may like and so forth. Everyone's standards are different. I let my kids get away with reading and watching more than probably my parents did but just because I'm cool with it doesn't mean I'm kidding myself into thinking it'll be generally accepted. Hell the local school a few months ago had permission slips we had to sign so the kids could watch Matilda in class because it was PG maybe and had the word 'damn' in it. I thought it was a joke but even according to my kids there were a bunch of kids not allowed to watch the film. So when you're trying to reach as broad an audience as possible for the younger set (different ball game with new fans who happen to be older) you have to have the material not be objectionable in a broad scope. Not what you or I think a kid can handle (or want) but what their parents, guardians and representatives feel is appropriate.

[Fake Pat]

You're making assumptions. Nobody's asking for the books to be dumbed down. "All ages" is suppose to be written in a way that can be enjoyed by someone who's 12 or someone who is 30. There's no reason to have THOR: THE MIGHTY AVENGER because the regular THOR comic should be just as accessible.

How does the regular Thor comic not fit that description?

Hell, I might not buy many Big 2 books anymore, but as I recall the VAST majority of Marvel and DC books could be described that way.

[Fake Pat]

Barnes and Nobles choices are extremely limited and at least in the shops around here they charge more than cover price for those issues. It came up pretty early on when a couple parents were upset that the prices were more than they were even led to beleive. In terms of more All Ages titles, it's just having more variety for that market. New fan isn't going to buy 20 new comics site unseen. New fan isn't going to buy any comic. Their parents make the choices, just as the little league coaches, librarians and teachers made the choices in those cases. The safer bets were the most ideal and they wanted variety. A book girls may like. A book boys may like. A book both may like and so forth. Everyone's standards are different. I let my kids get away with reading and watching more than probably my parents did but just because I'm cool with it doesn't mean I'm kidding myself into thinking it'll be generally accepted. Hell the local school a few months ago had permission slips we had to sign so the kids could watch Matilda in class because it was PG maybe and had the word 'damn' in it. I thought it was a joke but even according to my kids there were a bunch of kids not allowed to watch the film. So when you're trying to reach as broad an audience as possible for the younger set (different ball game with new fans who happen to be older) you have to have the material not be objectionable in a broad scope. Not what you or I think a kid can handle (or want) but what their parents, guardians and representatives feel is appropriate.

I'm not sure that actually answers the question.

[Jef UK]

There was no lack at that time; there were plenty of other titles for me to get into.

There's no lack now. There are plenty of other titles for any kid to get into, without Marvel or DC even factoring in. Top Shelf makes them. Oni makes them. Boom makes them. VIZ makes them. Image makes them. Dark Horse makes them. Adhouse makes them.

[AndrewG]

I think some here are both underestimating the reading capabilities of a lot of kids and overestimating the complexity of a lot of mainstream books.

It has nothing to do with the capability or interest level of the kids. It has to do with what parents, coaches, teachers and librarians feel is approrpiate reading material to those kids.

[AndrewG]

There's no lack now. There are plenty of other titles for any kid to get into, without Marvel or DC even factoring in. Top Shelf makes them. Oni makes them. Boom makes them. VIZ makes them. Image makes them. Dark Horse makes them. Adhouse makes them.

Those are even harder to find though. Super hero comics in the mass market were/still can be the gateway drug. Get the young readers, hook em and then hopefully they'll discover this wonderful world of variety out there. But if I/anyone can't get folks to read Iron Man or Batman after very popular films of both come out how on Earth are they going to find indies on their own.

[Fake Pat]

Those are even harder to find though. Super hero comics in the mass market were/still can be the gateway drug. Get the young readers, hook em and then hopefully they'll discover this wonderful world of variety out there. But if I/anyone can't get folks to read Iron Man or Batman after very popular films of both come out how on Earth are they going to find indies on their own.

Google.

Seriously.

[Fake Pat]

It has nothing to do with the capability or interest level of the kids. It has to do with what parents, coaches, teachers and librarians feel is approrpiate reading material to those kids.

1. There's (as jef has said) MOUNTAINS of stuff no reasonable adult would object to.

2. That's a different point then what I was responding to.

[AndrewG]

Google.

Seriously.

Yeah, try telling that to someone who's never read a comic before. You can read a comic but we're going to make you jump through hoops to go get them. Doesn't work.

[Fake Pat]

Yeah, try telling that to someone who's never read a comic before. You can read a comic but we're going to make you jump through hoops to go get them. Doesn't work.

Jump through hoops? Dude, amazon. People love it.

If people want comics they are very easy to get.

[AndrewG]

1. There's (as jef has said) MOUNTAINS of stuff no reasonable adult would object to.

2. That's a different point then what I was responding to.

How about instead of arguing and nit picking over what people are saying here when you don't know what you're talking about you call up the local middle schools and youth sports associations and arrange some meetings to find out exactly what is preventing people from reading books or what's preventing parents from buying the books for the kids.

[AndrewG]

Jump through hoops? Dude, amazon. People love it.

If people want comics they are very easy to get.

Someone who has never read a comic isn't going to start buying them sight unseen.

[mario]

It's because there are no kids coming into comic stores. That's why it's failing.

BUT!

Should Marvel team up with Disney and do Book fairs like Scholastic does, they could sell shit loads of kids friendly , all ages books and then it would be economically feasable to do Marvel OGN's.

But 22 page pamphlets for kids? Dead.

[Fake Pat]

How about instead of arguing and nit picking over what people are saying here when you don't know what you're talking about you call up the local middle schools and youth sports associations and arrange some meetings to find out exactly what is preventing people from reading books or what's preventing parents from buying the books for the kids.

1. Relax, I thought we were having a discussion.

2. I work with middle schoolers and youth sports leagues. Have for years.

[NickT]

Assuming it is the case (The other books in the solicits don't sound like they're ending, so maybe there will just be no new ones or they will be phased out slowly or something), it's sad but I'm not sure how major an impact it will be. I don't think ASM or USM are particuarly un-friendly for all, after all.



On another note, looking forward to the Clevinger book.

[Jef UK]

But everybody gives away content online. First 100 pages free. First issue free. We see this all the time.

And if limited content at Barnes & Noble isn't the way, then how did anybody get hooked on the dozen comics on sale at Target in 1982 in the first place? And I gaurantee you that that 70 cents meant something to my parents if not me, because I don't think "they were only 70 cents" is a valid argument given the Carter and Reagan years, just as I don't think $2 might have meant as much in 1994 as 70 cents did in 1982.

[AndrewG]

1. Relax, I thought we were having a discussion.

2. I work with middle schoolers and youth sports leagues. Have for years.

1. Relax? I'm home alone with 3 young boys for a week. There is no 'relax'

2. Do you try and get them to read comic books? If so what are their reasons not to?

[Jef UK]

Those are even harder to find though. Super hero comics in the mass market were/still can be the gateway drug. Get the young readers, hook em and then hopefully they'll discover this wonderful world of variety out there. But if I/anyone can't get folks to read Iron Man or Batman after very popular films of both come out how on Earth are they going to find indies on their own.

Well, I think we're in the middle of the sea change where superheroes in the mass market will no longer be the gateway drug (and for many of us it was Richie Rich and Casper who taught us how to read a comic, and then GI Joe and Transformers that roped us in at Target and Toys R Us). If anything, superheroes being perceived as comics is a big part of whatever problems we recognize now with the viability of comics in the market.

I think Boom or whoever else making Cars or Shrek comics is the way. Oni doing Yo Gabba Gabba is the way. Those are our G.I.Joes and Transformers and Spider-Mans, even as we still have plenty of Spider-Mans and Transformers and G.I.Joes.

I just like using"Spider-Mans," plural.

[Jef UK]

Send in the Frankenstiens!

[Jef UK]

Gotta run. Good talk! Except for sheep guy.

[Generic Poster]

Well, I think we're in the middle of the sea change where superheroes in the mass market will no longer be the gateway drug (and for many of us it was Richie Rich and Casper who taught us how to read a comic, and then GI Joe and Transformers that roped us in at Target and Toys R Us). If anything, superheroes being perceived as comics is a big part of whatever problems we recognize now with the viability of comics in the market.

I think Boom or whoever else making Cars or Shrek comics is the way. Oni doing Yo Gabba Gabba is the way. Those are our G.I.Joes and Transformers and Spider-Mans, even as we still have plenty of Spider-Mans and Transformers and G.I.Joes.

I just like using"Spider-Mans," plural.

That's a good point. My comics reading started with the Micronauts and Star Wars comics.

[AndrewG]

Well, I think we're in the middle of the sea change where superheroes in the mass market will no longer be the gateway drug (and for many of us it was Richie Rich and Casper who taught us how to read a comic, and then GI Joe and Transformers that roped us in at Target and Toys R Us). If anything, superheroes being perceived as comics is a big part of whatever problems we recognize now with the viability of comics in the market.

I think Boom or whoever else making Cars or Shrek comics is the way. Oni doing Yo Gabba Gabba is the way. Those are our G.I.Joes and Transformers and Spider-Mans, even as we still have plenty of Spider-Mans and Transformers and G.I.Joes.

I just like using"Spider-Mans," plural.

That's quite possible, as well. A special kudos to Boom, Dark Horse and DC who are a few of the publishers who went out of their way to help me help parents and community heads make some informed decisions about comics along with an all too generous sampling of products to give out to hundreds of younger readers.

[Phantom Eagle]

I buy Marvel Adventures Super Heroes and Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. I also bought Thor: The Mighty Avenger. I also bought the Captain America 1940s Newspaper Comic. Marvel does try to publish All Ages stuff (Pet Avengers, Beta Ray Bill and Power Pack, etc). From the market performance of an awesome book like T:TMA, you can see why they decided to back off on a similar CA venture. It is a business, after all. This is not an official announcement, just one freelancer's viewpoint, after exactly one project.

I feel bad that this freelancer won't be doing as much as he wanted to, but I don't see that this means they're dropping all of their All Ages books across the line. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I see plenty of material, and plenty of nice digest-sized reprints. I can't imagine All Ages superhero comics being huge sellers anyway. While we may bemoan that, I guess the real question is about talking to kids where they are engaged, through video games, animation and movies. My grandkids may not put baseball cards in the spokes of their bike or play with a Super Ball, but I didn't chase a hoop with a stick or build a soapbox racer, like my Grandfather did, either. Life goes on.

Cheers.

[JamesV]

That's a good point. My comics reading started with the Micronauts and Star Wars comics.

I had a few random Spider-Man and Batman comics, but it was Count Duckula with the Danger Mouse back up strips that got me into comics hardcore as a little kid. And then it became Ninja Turtles.

And then Spider-Man and X-Men and then everything else.

[Andrew]

A thirteen year old probably isn't going to buy a single issue of a mainstream comic any ways.

Some of them do. I still see it.

And I was one of those 13-year-olds a mere 8 years ago, when the industry was very similar to where it is now.

[DaveCummings]

I agree about the availability of comics everywhere was a boon, but I also think online availabilty starts to mimic that availability when essentially everyone and their mother can and do carry around portable little entertainment boxes in their pockets.

I think that's quickly going to be there. I saw a kid reading a Spider-man comic on their mom's Ipad while they were waiting for their food at the place I wait tables at.

[Zac Goyette]

"Death" of all ages comics is awfully dramatic. They're only "dead" until the next wave of them comes out. In a couple months or a year or so, there will be another push to get young readers, which will result in a new wave of all ages books. Honestly, I think they are better suited to put the majority of the all ages material online any way.

[Phantom Eagle]

I think that's quickly going to be there. I saw a kid reading a Spider-man comic on their mom's Ipad while they were waiting for their food at the place I wait tables at.

This. It just takes one comic to really catch on with that generation in this new medium, to kick start a whole new thing.

[Fake Pat]

"Death" of all ages comics is awfully dramatic. They're only "dead" until the next wave of them comes out. In a couple months or a year or so, there will be another push to get young readers, which will result in a new wave of all ages books. Honestly, I think they are better suited to put the majority of the all ages material online any way.

I agree.

[michealdark]

I like the all-ages Power Pack stuff. I'd hate the idea that there would be no more Power Pack stuff. While I'd love the 616 Power Pack to reform, especially to make up for Julie being played as a vapid dummy last time we saw her, the all ages team is just so cute

[BENDIS!]

oy. dumb thread.

there are dozens of all ages books by almost every publisher. this guys book didn't make it, which always sucks, but...

[michealdark]

You got a new one coming out that will prove that all-ages books can in fact sell more than 10,000 or 15,000 a pop?

[DaveCummings]

You got a new one coming out that will prove that all-ages books can in fact sell more than 10,000 or 15,000 a pop?

Um..there's Takio which it's format gives it a lot longer shelf life than your standard issue.

[BENDIS!]

You got a new one coming out that will prove that all-ages books can in fact sell more than 10,000 or 15,000 a pop?

TAKIO is coming next month and usm has sold quite a few copies in its day... to people of all ages.

[Zac Goyette]

TAKIO is coming next month and usm has sold quite a few copies in its day... to people of all ages.

True. Just because it isn't rated all ages doesn't mean it isn't selling to all ages. I have seen some people post that USM isn't all ages, but I have to disagree. Depending on the reader's age, a person will take something different from it.

[michealdark]

I always feel bad for J. Torres because he's amazing at all ages books, but they never sell spectacularly well. Which is a shame because he's one of DC's most consistent writers. Then again, a large part of that could be the DC's marketing makes Marvel's look like the holy grail. And their trade scheduling is the most haphazard, nonsensical in the business

[SteveFlack]

oy. dumb thread.

there are dozens of all ages books by almost every publisher. this guys book didn't make it, which always sucks, but...

How many in continuity (hell, even out of continuity) books are Marvel and DC publishing that aren't physically labelled Teen and Up? If they are labelled Teen, they aren't all ages.

[NickT]

How many in continuity (hell, even out of continuity) books are Marvel and DC publishing that aren't physically labelled Teen and Up? If they are labelled Teen, they aren't all ages.
Actually, quite a few. Next week for Marvel includes Avengers, Incredible Hulks, MA Spider-Man, Magneto, New Avengers, X-Men Forever and X-Men Serve and Protect, all A or less.






Of course to argue with my previous point though, the problem with other titles is that there is no guarentee that a book that is good for all will always be good for all, or that the rating system will always indicate the content in the books.

[DaveCummings]

According to an article I read on Bleeding Cool at http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/01/23/is-this-the-end-of-marvel-all-ages-books/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/01/23/is-this-the-end-of-marvel-all-ages-books/), All Ages books aren't going anywhere.

Here is a quote by Marvel's VP of Sales, David Gabriel



Marvel is not stopping the all ages lines! An exciting announcement is coming in just a few weeks that will expand upon this as well. Our all ages titles have great success well outside of the direct market, as well as the success they have with individual stores within the direct market. I just like to stop rumors like this from spreading!

[Andrew]

How many in continuity (hell, even out of continuity) books are Marvel and DC publishing that aren't physically labelled Teen and Up? If they are labelled Teen, they aren't all ages.

:blah:

[michealdark]

Nice to hear the all ages books aren't ending

[Phantom Eagle]

I wish more people would actually just visit Marvel's site (http://subscriptions.marvel.com/home/) and look at the many All Ages books and/or magazines that they can subscribe to, and stop foaming at the mouth about the terrible state of modern superhero comics at the drop of a blog post.

[Jef UK]

Wacker Redefines Marvel Adventures:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=31012

OMG, Marvel does want new readers!

[A.Huerta]

If he wants to find the next "Liefeld", they're going to have to get younger artists with a unique style. I believe the younger artists knows what younger people like.

[Superior Kiai]

Can we all just agree on the date for the death of everything so that we can stop making individual threads for each one???