Is Luke Cage black enough now?

[Rian Fike]

During my daily googling of Squirrel Girl I stumbled upon this.


He may have plastic or a PayPal account, but Luke is old school, and he would always have a stack of cash on his person, because he would remember the desperate, lean times when he was broke.More than likely, when asked for a dollar, Luke would pull out a knot, peel off a hundred, and ask Tony if he had change. Given Luke’s history, I also can’t imagine him deciding to live on principle, literally and figuratively, now that he has a wife and child to provide for financially.

This dude says Luke should be more like 50 cent. What?

Here's the link: http://worldofhurtonline.com/2011/01/07/understanding-luke-cage-part-ii-of-ii/

[Jason California]

If Luke Cage switched bodies with Jessica Jones, would he still be black?

[AlienKeyes]

During my daily googling of Squirrel Girl I stumbled upon this.


:lol:

[Rian Fike]

If Luke Cage switched bodies with Jessica Jones, would he still be black?


She would be well hung, for sure.

[Treacle]

This reminds me of a discussion we had on the GailBo or Benbo (can't remember which one) about why writers are afraid of taking on Black characters.

Now I understand.

[Ryudo]

The Lakers are better than the Heat.

[Ray G.]

This sounds more like "Is Luke Cage enough of a stereotype".

I think his transition to family man and street-level Avenger is probably one of the best things Bendis has done.

[Matt C. Linton]

Leaving aside the shorthand of "he should be more like 50 cent", the guy makes a lot of good points.

[Treacle]

This sounds more like "Is Luke Cage enough of a stereotype".

I think his transition to family man and street-level Avenger is probably one of the best things Bendis has done.

Because heaven forbid a character would actually, you know, evolve.

[Rian Fike]

The Lakers are better than the Heat.


What, because they have more white guys?

[Kedd]

Well that guy is stating an opinion. That's for sure.


This reminds me of a discussion we had on the GailBo or Benbo (can't remember which one) about why writers are afraid of taking on Black characters.

Now I understand.
They cannot win.

[Kedd]

I feel like explaining to him why he's wrong, but I don't want to get into a long drawn out conversation that will go nowhere. Also, damn you Rian for posting something that has the potential to lead to serious conversation :angry:

[TheNatureRoy]

During my daily lurking of the BenBo I stumbled upon this.


During my daily googling of Squirrel Girl I stumbled upon this.

[GrandeMaestro Fünke]

Last night I found a trailer for a documentary that kind of talks about this type of thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oqH7Dqpx0I

[The Hodag]

Last night I found a trailer for a documentary that kind of talks about this type of thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oqH7Dqpx0I

That looks really interesting. I recognize or half-recognize a lot of those creators and wish they'd had identifying title cards under them (insert cheap "they all look alike" joke here).

I went to the website for the documentary and it seems they're still looking for a distributor.

[Kedd]

Last night I found a trailer for a documentary that kind of talks about this type of thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oqH7Dqpx0I

I wish I could find a copy of that

[Foolish Mortal]

Well that guy is stating an opinion. That's for sure.


They cannot win.
The reality there is no singular, 'omnipresent' black community. You can't please everyone all the time. There will always be dissenters to something.

[Matt C. Linton]

Elaborating on the points I think are valid.

"Luke Cage, was a man, who in his most desperate hour–cold, alone, broke, and a fugitive from the law– saw opportunity and took it. Luke Cage, Hero For Hire would not be standing around as the only guy on his team wearing clothing with POCKETS, asking somebody if he could borrow a dollar:"

"Luke Cage is a hustler in the most positive interpretation of that word. He’s a street entrepreneur. It’s central to his character. After all, the title of his original series was Luke Cage, Hero For Hire. He’s the type of guy who is always looking for the angle. He’ll search for a way to make the most of his present circumstances, while keeping one eye on the horizon for the next opportunity. The above scene from the first issue of Luke Cage: Hero For Hire was his “I-shall-become-a-bat” moment. It was not only the first time he put on his costume,but it established that from the outset, Luke was a savvy businessman who intuitively understood the power of marketing."

This is less about stereotypes or whether or not a character can evolve, and more about consistently building on the established characterization in a natural way. Ignoring those aspects is like writing a Batman who gets over his parents death.

I don't think that means that Luke always has to be a Hero for Hire who's out for a paycheck with every job, but he given where he comes from and his history, it does seem likely that at the very least he'd make sure that he and his family are taken care of and stable.

[A.Huerta]

I don't think so. I prefer cash and im not black.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Maybe he, you know, grew up?

[Foolish Mortal]

Cage's character is not where it was in his early days as a 'Hero for Hire'. He's now a leader of a group that has greater responsibilities than just getting a paycheck. He's now a protector of his community, his city, his world.

His way of thinking in how to get things accomplished has changed.

[Matt C. Linton]

Maybe he, you know, grew up?

Being broke and not providing for your family is "growing up"? Should Bruce Wayne "grow up" and stop whining about his dead parents? There's nothing wrong with a character growing up and evolving, but in serial fiction it helps if that growth and evolution doesn't take away the few things that make the character unique.

[Matt C. Linton]

Cage's character is not where it was in his early days as a 'Hero for Hire'. He's now a leader of a group that has greater responsibilities than just getting a paycheck. He's now a protector of his community, his city, his world.

His way of thinking in how to get things accomplished has changed.

Like I said, it's not about whether he's getting a paycheck or not.

[Steve Marshall]

I usually refrain from absolutes, but the concept of a person or character not being black enough or white enough or whatever enough, like there's a universally-accepted rule book floating around, is pretty stupid.

[Slewo.O]

I usually refrain from absolutes, but the concept of so and so not being black enough or white enough or whatever enough, like there's a universally-accepted rule book floating around, is pretty stupid.

Well there's no reason why Luke shouldn't have a gold tooth or brass knuckles with "Cage" printed on em. :no:

[bradical]

I usually refrain from absolutes, but the concept of so and so not being black enough or white enough or whatever enough, like there's a universally-accepted rule book floating around, is pretty stupid.

i've never heard anyone ask if a comic book character, or any character actually, was white enough.

[The Hodag]

i've never heard any one ask if a comic book character, or any character actually, was white enough.

Heimdall!

[Steve Marshall]

i've never heard any one ask if a comic book character, or any character actually, was white enough.

You've obviously never seen a post from stormfront. :D

[bradical]

Heimdall!

bless you.


You've obviously never seen a post from stormfront. :D

no i haven't, martian, i mean, whitey!

[Patch]

Visually, 50 Cent looks more like Luke Cage than Luke Cage does. Some tatts would make Luke's appearance less 'bland'.

But it might intimidate the white folks...

[HOOKS]

I am glad there are people out there to remind me that being black is a personality trait rather than an ethnicity.

[mario]

I am glad there are people out there to remind me that being black is a personality trait rather than an ethnicity.

To all the wiggers out there it is

[Ashwin Pande]

You people be trippin' yo.

[afroloq]

This reminds me of a discussion we had on the GailBo or Benbo (can't remember which one) about why writers are afraid of taking on Black characters.

Now I understand.

wasn't there one portion that also had to do with hair? or different thread?

[dasNdanger]

Is Luke black enough??

I dunno...I haven't seen him nekkid yet... :heybaby:




das

[afroloq]

Visually, 50 Cent looks more like Luke Cage than Luke Cage does. Some tatts would make Luke's appearance less 'bland'.

But it might intimidate the white folks...

wait...so tatts would better define his 'blackness'? he being a large dude isn't intimidating enough?

@das...WOW!

"I drop my pants and pull it out this whole room will go dark." - Bernie Mack

[Patch]

wait...so tatts would better define his 'blackness'? he being a large dude isn't intimidating enough?

No. Aside from JOKING about intimidating the white folks, I'm not really talking about his blackness at all. Strictly from an artist's POV, there's nothing there. In the universe of Marvel comics, when considering a Luke Cage series-- I don't see the same visual excitement compared with other opportunities. Just being a large dude doesn't count for squat in the MU. It seems that visually, the only 'bank' the character has is being of a different race than the rest of the team. What's that leave when he's alone? Not much, art-wise, to bank on.

He can be all the things, personality-wise, that he is now. He can be a daddy, holding his baby in his mighty arms-- but those arms might look more interesting with tatts.

[dasNdanger]

wait...so tatts would better define his 'blackness'? he being a large dude isn't intimidating enough?

@das...WOW!

"I drop my pants and pull it out this whole room will go dark." - Bernie Mack

:lol:

A little story:
Both my husband and I - though pasty white people - have black ancestry (as I've mentioned before). Just recently my father-in-law was telling a black friend about his own black heritage, and the guy asked my very white FIL what part of him was black (meaning percentage), and my FIL said, 'The best part!' :D


das

[Andrew]

To all the wiggers out there it is

:lol:

[afroloq]

No. Aside from JOKING about intimidating the white folks, I'm not really talking about his blackness at all. Strictly from an artist's POV, there's nothing there. In the universe of Marvel comics, when considering a Luke Cage series-- I don't see the same visual excitement compared with other opportunities. Just being a large dude doesn't count for squat in the MU. It seems that visually, the only 'bank' the character has is being of a different race than the rest of the team. What's that leave when he's alone? Not much, art-wise, to bank on.

He can be all the things, personality-wise, that he is now. He can be a daddy, holding his baby in his mighty arms-- but those arms might look more interesting with tatts.

I would disagree that tatts would make him more interesting. besides that, then you get into the whole thing of consistency...it's bad enough that 30+ years ago he had a 'fro and now he's just clean shaven...what about if someone gave him dredds, or a mohawk? Every little detail that you add (or take away) sometimes just makes it more complicated depending on the artists, especially if it really has no bearing on who the character is.

it's like when I 'visualize' who Luke Cage could be, I more imagine someone like Tiny Lister (with straight eyes) or a much younger version of Ving Rhames (as well as Michael Clark Duncan) who just by their presence alone could intimidate....no tatts needed.

Also let's remember, if his skin is IMPENETRABLE, how would he go about getting tatts in the first place...so with that in mind, that argument over the tatts is moot.

So let's think about it...he can stop bullets but his skin is pliant enough to get get tatts.....it's inconsistent.

[Patch]

I would disagree that tatts would make him more interesting. besides that, then you get into the whole thing of consistency...it's bad enough that 30+ years ago he had a 'fro and now he's just clean shaven...what about if someone gave him dredds, or a mohawk? Every little detail that you add (or take away) sometimes just makes it more complicated depending on the artists, especially if it really has no bearing on who the character is.

it's like when I 'visualize' who Luke Cage could be, I more imagine someone like Tiny Lister (with straight eyes) or a much younger version of Ving Rhames (as well as Michael Clark Duncan) who just by their presence alone could intimidate....no tatts needed.

Also let's remember, if his skin is IMPENETRABLE, how would he go about getting tatts in the first place...so with that in mind, that argument over the tatts is moot.

So let's think about it...he can stop bullets but his skin is pliant enough to get get tatts.....it's inconsistent.

Tatts have been a fairly dominate cultural phenom for 20 years and still are (the 'fro came and went (except for a few hipster exceptions) in 10, the mohawk was never widely popular).
Cage is trapped in supporting character/team book roles until he gets some kind of well-liked, memorable 'look'.

Maybe that's not tatts, maybe it is; their design, if unique enough, could very well work for him the way costumes work for identifying superheroes.

[dasNdanger]

Tatts have been a fairly dominate cultural phenom for 20 years and still are (the 'fro came and went (except for a few hipster exceptions) in 10, the mohawk was never widely popular).
Cage is trapped in supporting character/team book roles until he gets some kind of well-liked, memorable 'look'.

Maybe that's not tatts, maybe it is; their design, if unique enough, could very well work for him the way costumes work for identifying superheroes.

Like Jheri curls, a marching band costume, and a single sequin glove??


:scared:



das

[Hate_Prime]

Since he's been a fugitive since Civil War up to the end of Dark Reign, I guess you could argue that's a reason why he's broke. But I do think he's the type to have cash tucked away in an offshore account or something, especially when he found out he's going to be a dad.

But yeah, at what point did this guy who was a bit of a rogue turn in to a white knight (pun absolutely not intended). Joining the Avengers in the first place? Civil War? Falling in love with Jessica?

[dasNdanger]

Cage is trapped in supporting character/team book roles until he gets some kind of well-liked, memorable 'look'.

The thing is, there isn't a specific 'look' that goes along with being black (apart from skin color, possibly hair style), and I think that's what too many creators are trying to do - make Cage 'black' through what he wears. Looking back at those old pictures of the character, he looked like a goddamn pimp! I'm amazed they didn't put him in tribal gear, or something. :roll: As human beings, we all tend to wear the same kind of styles (whatever is 'in' at the time) - white kids as well as black wear basketball jerseys and pants hanging off their backsides. White men and black men wear business suits, they both wear jeans, they both wear sweats, they both wear t-shirts. To try to make a black character 'more black' by what he wears most certainly begs for the extremes, and the extremes create stereotypes.

Why can't Luke just be a man who happens to also be black? Yes, his background should shape who he is (his attitude, his life choices, his habits), but those things are not exclusive to black people.

I agree that he needs a distinctive look. But...not sure that's all there is to it. I think Hate Prime makes a good point:


Since he's been a fugitive since Civil War up to the end of Dark Reign, I guess you could argue that's a reason why he's broke. But I do think he's the type to have cash tucked away in an offshore account or something, especially when he found out he's going to be a dad.

But yeah, at what point did this guy who was a bit of a rogue turn in to a white knight (pun absolutely not intended). Joining the Avengers in the first place? Civil War? Falling in love with Jessica?


I think turning Cage from rogue to an Avenger is a way of getting him more exposure, drawing his fans into a new book with characters they may have ignored before, while exposing Cage to readers who didn't pay him any attention before. It's a way to make him more mainstream. However, some characters need to stay on the fringes, need to remain the outsiders, the rogues. Wolverine is [was] one...but now he's as common as two-bit whore. Why? Because he was an underground fan fav who was forced into the limelight to boost sales and to [I assume] give fans more of what they want. But sometimes that ruins the very thing that fans liked about the character - the mystery, the coolness. Mr. Mom Cage is okay, but it does sort of diminish his badassiness when he's caught changing diapers.

So, you need both style (appearance) and personality - and that personality can't be a split one (like what's happened in recent years to Wolverine). Well-defined - make the character jump off the page...make him memorable, not just by how he looks, but by how he acts. Make him do things that are unexpected, even out of character at times. But also keep the essence of who he is - a kid who had it rough, bettered himself, and is now giving back.

Also, make him look like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasNdanger/tyrese.jpg


:heybaby:


Oh, yeah...it is ALL about the attitude... and other stuff. ;)



das

[Eli Ca$h]

Cage is trapped in supporting character/team book roles until he gets some kind of well-liked, memorable 'look'.


I love Cage, but I've been bothered by his lack of a costume/consistent look since New Avengers #1. I think his look in Thunderbolts is cool and wouldn't mind seeing that across the board (I believe Bendis shot this down a while back).

I'd like to seem him ditch the shaved head/goatee combo. It just seems tired and like every black male character is drawn with that look. I could go shaved head/soul patch, shaved head/full beard, short hair/clean shaven, pretty much anything but House of M cornrows.

And, since the powers that be seem opposed to giving him a costume, I'd like to see him in a consistent street clothes look that gives a nod to his old costume...maybe always have him wear a yellow jacket with black accents and maybe an iconic belt buckle.

[Generic Poster]

Luke Cage still owes Reed Richards about $2 million for that Fantasti-Plane he crashed in Latveria when he went to collect the $200 Doom stiffed him for.

[HeroBoy]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa...wait...Luke Cage? Is black?

[mario]

Luke Cage still owes Reed Richards about $2 million for that Fantasti-Plane he crashed in Latveria when he went to collect the $200 Doom stiffed him for.

Where's MY money, honey?
http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/735/735105/mr-fantastic-art-20060925004953772_640w.jpg

[Jef UK]

To all the wiggers out there it is

Wafrican-Americans, please.

[Kedd]

]The thing is, there isn't a specific 'look' that goes along with being black (apart from skin color, possibly hair style), and I think that's what too many creators are trying to do - make Cage 'black' through what he wears.[/B]
das
It's not about him wearing clothing that makes him more "black". It's about him having an overall look that makes him stand out as a character. Blue Jeans and a black T-shirt is pretty bland uniform for a character surrounded by bright colors and flashy outfits. His look in Thunderbolts is a little better, but still relatively bland.

[thatguyfromsyracuse]

As a black man myself, I personally think he could be more black.

[Generic Poster]

As a black man myself, I personally think he could be more black.

Maybe in the next DC/Marvel crossover, Superman could use his Blackinator on Cage?

[Treacle]

wasn't there one portion that also had to do with hair? or different thread?

I think I remember that conversation.

Artists getting Black people's hair wrong is one if my pet peeves.

[Foolish Mortal]

Personally, I like the corn rows Luke had in House of M. He should go with that look instead of the generic shaved head that so many artists give black guys.

[afroloq]

Ok..I keep seeing people complaining about his costume and overall look, but what does that have to do with "measuring" his blackness?

If I change the way I look does that enhance or diminish who I am?

If this is what the conversation is about then the title of this thread does a disservice in the overall idea of giving Luke Cage a voice to have him be a more prominent Marvel U. character.

If this is a case, then we need to discuss Bishop, Cloak, Monica Rambeau, Storm and a whole host of other Black characters that are still minor players.

[Kedd]

Ok..I keep seeing people complaining about his costume and overall look, but what does that have to do with "measuring" his blackness?

If this is what the conversation is about then the title of this thread does a disservice in the overall idea of giving Luke Cage a voice to have him be a more prominent Marvel U. character.

If this is a case, then we need to discuss Bishop, Cloak, Monica Rambeau, Storm and a whole host of other Black characters that are still minor players.
Nothing. It has nothing to do with his "blackness" Patch brought it up with regards to his viability and appeal as a visual character. Tattoos, a change of costume to something that stands out more would make Cage more visually interesting, but it has nothing to with his depiction as a black man. It's a design issue.

[Kedd]

Personally, I like the corn rows Luke had in House of M. He should go with that look instead of the generic shaved head that so many artists give black guys.
I didn't mind that look on him.

[Foolish Mortal]

People are always going to bitch about him not wearing a 'costume'.

[Kedd]

People are always going to bitch about him not wearing a 'costume'.
As long as they don't give him Bishop 90's hair I'm good.

[afroloq]

Nothing. It has nothing to do with his "blackness" Patch brought it up with regards to his viability and appeal as a visual character. Tattoos, a change of costume to something that stands out more would make Cage more visually interesting, but it has nothing to with his depiction as a black man. It's a design issue.

Right...I was being a bit rhetorical in my question because it seems like that's where this thread was initially heading.

[Foolish Mortal]

As long as they don't give him Bishop 90's hair I'm good.

Yeah, we can do without the jeri-curl mullet. :sick:

[afroloq]

Yeah, we can do without the jeri-curl mullet. :sick:

What about the Noir look?

http://i.livescience.com/images/LukeCageNoir01.jpg

[Jef UK]

I like that Cage doesn't have a costume.

[thatguyfromsyracuse]

He should be naked.

[Foolish Mortal]

He should be naked.

Again, that would scare white people.

[Kedd]

What about the Noir look?

http://i.livescience.com/images/LukeCageNoir01.jpg
That was still bland to me. It suited the book well, but it didn't make him stand out enough to me.

[thatguyfromsyracuse]

Again, that would scare white people.

That's racist.

[Kedd]

I like his thunderbolts look. It's a costume without being a costume.
http://theheroicage.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/TheHeroicAge-Thunderbolts-Shadowland-Cage-01.jpg

[BriRedfern]

I enjoy Corbin Blaxploitation Luke Cage.

I know that is unpopular, but I loved that book for what it was.

[afroloq]

It's kind of like what Jef UK just said...he works well without a costume..it's funny that we are wracking our heads over this but Wonder Woman gets a civilian looking costume and it gets hated on. Maybe some characters....just are who they are without all those changes.

[batroc the leaper]

Does he have unbreakable teeth? What about his tongue? Can he eat a hot pocket without burning his mouth?

[dasNdanger]

It's not about him wearing clothing that makes him more "black". It's about him having an overall look that makes him stand out as a character. Blue Jeans and a black T-shirt is pretty bland uniform for a character surrounded by bright colors and flashy outfits. His look in Thunderbolts is a little better, but still relatively bland.

Again getting back to Wolverine. I love Wolverine in street clothes, but I guess his hair is what makes him 'Wolverine', even out of costume. So I see what you're saying. I think the problem is that - in an attempt to make Luke stand out - on occasion they've made him a stereotype. So, how do you make him stand out?

Dreads? I love dreads, but they are not Luke Cage. Mohawk? That is so Mr. T. 'Fro? That is so 1970s. Retro 'fro? That is so teenager. Anything in between and he's gonna look like an accountant.

So, bald head it is. It fits him, it fits his background, it fits his attitude.

Now, clothes. I like the jeans and white muscle shirt, but it's really not practical in the winter. However, his skin is his armor, as it were...he really doesn't need the same sort of protection other heroes do. He really only needs jeans and a t-shirt, but as you say, it's bland. On the other hand, put him in...say...too much leather, and you risk turning him into one of the Village People.

What holds Cage back IS his attitude. How do you put this big, badass guy in sky blue and canary yellow tights, without him looking like some sort of joke? Street clothes = too generic. Flashy costume = OOC. So, you find middle ground somehow. In surfing the net, I really like this look, maybe with modified boots and bracers:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasNdanger/cagebyRAHeight.jpg


das

[afroloq]

Again getting back to Wolverine. I love Wolverine in street clothes, but I guess his hair is what makes him 'Wolverine', even out of costume. So I see what you're saying. I think the problem is that - in an attempt to make Luke stand out - on occasion they've made him a stereotype. So, how do you make him stand out?

Dreads? I love dreads, but they are not Luke Cage. Mohawk? That is so Mr. T. 'Fro? That is so 1970s. Retro 'fro? That is so teenager. Anything in between and he's gonna look like an accountant.

So, bald head it is. It fits him, it fits his background, it fits his attitude.

Now, clothes. I like the jeans and white muscle shirt, but it's really not practical in the winter. However, his skin is his armor, as it were...he really doesn't need the same sort of protection other heroes do. He really only needs jeans and a t-shirt, but as you say, it's bland. On the other hand, put him in...say...too much leather, and you risk turning him into one of the Village People.

What holds Cage back IS his attitude. How do you put this big, badass guy in sky blue and canary yellow tights, without him looking like some sort of joke? Street clothes = too generic. Flashy costume = OOC. So, you find middle ground somehow. In surfing the net, I really like this look, maybe with modified boots and bracers:
Now we just need some theme music.

[Hate_Prime]

Mike Tyson face tattoo.

[Lord Jermaine Retail]

I think I remember that conversation.

Artists getting Black people's hair wrong is one if my pet peeves.

I have a customer who as recently as YESTERDAY is holding me and my "pull in the industry" to see what's going on with black characters being bald with goatees. He says that he's never looked that way and no one in his life has ever looked that way. I tell him that it's likely easier for artists to draw, but the man has a point. From the Stormwatch guy to Ultimate Nick Fury to Luke Cage to any number of other characters, the Hawk look from Spencer for Hire has had a bizarre impact on the world of comic books. My customer said that addressing this should be Axel Alonso's first order of business and it was up to me to see it happen. No pressure, right?

That was part kidding, part not. If Francavilla can show a different hair style in the new Black Panther Man Without Fear, which is a really solid read, then others can too. They can look up reference they same as they would for anything else. That being said, I like Cage the way he is. Sometimes it is difficult to look at the 70s Luke Cage and reconcile that the guy in New Avengers is the same man.

I frequently, as recently as two days ago, have customers (especially older customers) asking why Cage cannot have a costume or something other than everyday clothes. But at least Jessica also wears street clothes. Could be an advantage in some situations, but I get the point.

[dasNdanger]

Ok..I keep seeing people complaining about his costume and overall look, but what does that have to do with "measuring" his blackness?

If I change the way I look does that enhance or diminish who I am?

If this is what the conversation is about then the title of this thread does a disservice in the overall idea of giving Luke Cage a voice to have him be a more prominent Marvel U. character.

If this is a case, then we need to discuss Bishop, Cloak, Monica Rambeau, Storm and a whole host of other Black characters that are still minor players.

I think that's the point. A character of any background should not have to be the stereotyped representative of their culture. It started off as one type of discussion (how the character's look corresponds to his blackness), and has evolved into 'what can be done to make him stand out as an individual apart from his color'...at least, that's how I see it.



das

[JayPotts]

Hello, I'm Jay Potts. I'm the artist and writer of the online action/adventure strip, WORLD OF HURT, The Internet's #1 Blaxploitation Webcomic, but more importantly to this conversation, I'm the guy who wrote the column which was the catalyst for Rian Fike's initial post. (The column referenced was actually the second part in a two-part series. The first one is here: http://worldofhurtonline.com/2010/12/31/understanding-luke-cage/ )

First, let me say that I didn't come to pick a fight or name-call. Hopefully, I can provide some clarification, and we can have a healthy and amicable debate about a character and creator that we feel strongly about. I knew that not everyone would be a fan of what I had to say, but as a fan of Luke Cage, it was something that was weighing on my mind. About a third of my first post on Brian Michael Bendis' interpretation of Luke Cage was dedicated to praising what Bendis has done to move the character from the butt of jokes to the leader of its preeminent team. However, I do feel there have been some hiccups along the way that have undercut his efforts.

In the context of the article, I used 50 Cent as a real-life analogue for a Black man with a criminal background who successfully marketed his biography and image to sell his music, and eventually his brand, to mainstream America. Part of my argument was that Luke Cage, as a savvy street entrepreneur, who first marketed himself as a hero for HIRE, would also understand the value of an increased public profile as a member of the Avengers, and use it to establish his brand outside the boroughs of NYC. It was never my contention that Luke Cage wasn't Black enough or adopting a thuggish persona would somehow confer more Blackness to him. Within the article, I even use the 50 Cent analogy to get Luke Cage into something resembling a proper costume, or at least a thematically consistent ensemble, that would fit with his character and the demands of continuity.

Thanks for your time and attention. Even though I anticipate some disagreement, I honestly do appreciate your input.

- JEP

[JayPotts]

Hello, I'm Jay Potts. I'm the artist and writer of the online action/adventure strip, WORLD OF HURT, The Internet's #1 Blaxploitation Webcomic, but more importantly to this conversation, I'm the guy who wrote the column which was the catalyst for Rian Fike's initial post. (The column referenced was actually the second part in a two-part series. The first one is here: http://worldofhurtonline.com/2010/12/31/understanding-luke-cage/ )

First, let me say that I didn't come to pick a fight or name-call. Hopefully, I can provide some clarification, and we can have a healthy and amicable debate about a character and creator that we feel strongly about. I knew that not everyone would be a fan of what I had to say, but as a fan of Luke Cage, it was something that was weighing on my mind. About a third of my first post on Brian Michael Bendis' interpretation of Luke Cage was dedicated to praising what Bendis has done to move the character from the butt of jokes to the leader of its preeminent team. However, I do feel there have been some hiccups along the way that have undercut his efforts.

In the context of the article, I used 50 Cent as a real-life analogue for a Black man with a criminal background who successfully marketed his biography and image to sell his music, and eventually his brand, to mainstream America. Part of my argument was that Luke Cage, as a savvy street entrepreneur, who first marketed himself as a hero for HIRE, would also understand the value of an increased public profile as a member of the Avengers, and use it to establish his brand outside the boroughs of NYC. It was never my contention that Luke Cage wasn't Black enough or adopting a thuggish persona would somehow confer more Blackness to him. Within the article, I even use the 50 Cent analogy to get Luke Cage into something resembling a proper costume, or at least a thematically consistent ensemble, that would fit with his character and the demands of continuity.

Thanks for your time and attention. Even though I anticipate some disagreement, I honestly do appreciate your input.

- JEP

[HOOKS]

I think I remember that conversation.

Artists getting Black people's hair wrong is one if my pet peeves.

I love artists that still give black men flat tops and jheri curls.

Of course, the default is always bald.

[afroloq]

I have a customer who as recently as YESTERDAY is holding me and my "pull in the industry" to see what's going on with black characters being bald with goatees. He says that he's never looked that way and no one in his life has ever looked that way. I tell him that it's likely easier for artists to draw, but the man has a point. From the Stormwatch guy to Ultimate Nick Fury to Luke Cage to any number of other characters, the Hawk look from Spencer for Hire has had a bizarre impact on the world of comic books. My customer said that addressing this should be Axel Alonso's first order of business and it was up to me to see it happen. No pressure, right?

That was part kidding, part not. If Francavilla can show a different hair style in the new Black Panther Man Without Fear, which is a really solid read, then others can too. They can look up reference they same as they would for anything else. That being said, I like Cage the way he is. Sometimes it is difficult to look at the 70s Luke Cage and reconcile that the guy in New Avengers is the same man.

I frequently, as recently as two days ago, have customers (especially older customers) asking why Cage cannot have a costume or something other than everyday clothes. But at least Jessica also wears street clothes. Could be an advantage in some situations, but I get the point.
It kind of goes back into the same argument with Wolverine and to an extension, Punisher....they seem like they work better and have a bit more credibility without the costume.

I think one of the reasons why I enjoyed Punisher Max so much is because Frank looked like an everyman but also was a myth; he wasn't 'identifiable' with the big white skull shirt.

He could walk right beside you and you would never know it was him....

Sort of the same with Wolverine, the only standout part on him when his claws aren't popped, is of course the hair.

I think it just goes to show how much these characters can integrate into everyday life but be such a larger part when duty calls.

That being said. I like Luke as he is.

[afroloq]

I love artists that still give black men flat tops and jheri curls.

Of course, the default is always bald.

I keep having nightmares of Captain Marvel in the 80s.

Believe it or not I am trying to convince my wife to do that costume because I believe that she can pull it off even with her dredds.

[Generic Poster]

I like his thunderbolts look. It's a costume without being a costume.
http://theheroicage.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/TheHeroicAge-Thunderbolts-Shadowland-Cage-01.jpg

What the hell are those things on his forearms for? He's got unbreakable skin!

[Kedd]

What the hell are those things on his forearms for? He's got unbreakable skin!
Tech for the raft

[HeroBoy]

I love artists that still give black men flat tops and jheri curls.

Of course, the default is always bald.

T'challa, Luke Cage, and Steel are indistinguishable as drawn by modern artists.

[Kedd]

T'challa, Luke Cage, and Steel are indistinguishable as drawn by modern artists.
T'Challa has hair so he is at least a little different. He does, however, look a lot like Rhodey at times.

[TheKraken]

I like that Cage doesn't have a costume.

I like the concept of him not wearing a costume, but the reality of it as presented over the last several years hasn't been so good. No matter how interesting or complex a character he is, when he's surrounded by colorful superhero costumes, the guy in a t-shirt & jeans automatically becomes the least-interesting person on the page. His appearance needs to be as interesting as his personality to help him really stand out in the Marvel Universe. They can't sell toys of T-shirt Man. He deserves an iconic look.

[afroloq]

T'Challa has hair so he is at least a little different. He does, however, look a lot like Rhodey at times.

and at worst, Rhodey is hardly even human anymore.

[adam_warlock_2099]

I don't think so. I prefer cash and im not black.

I do too. There are some services that cannot be paid for with a card or check.

[Kedd]

and at worst, Rhodey is hardly even human anymore.
Does he still look like Cyborg?


I do too. There are some services that cannot be paid for with a card or check.
Hookers.

[afroloq]

Does he still look like Cyborg?


Hookers.

I believe so.

[adam_warlock_2099]

Hookers.

There you go demeaning women again. :-x

[Patch]

Nothing. It has nothing to do with his "blackness" Patch brought it up with regards to his viability and appeal as a visual character. Tattoos, a change of costume to something that stands out more would make Cage more visually interesting, but it has nothing to with his depiction as a black man. It's a design issue.

Exactly. Thanks, Kedd.

Somehow it's gotten into someone's mind that Luke Cage isn't convincing in anything but regular clothing.
Well, that may be or it may not be, but regular clothing-- the lack of an individual specific touch, does make him less visually interesting.

I'm starting to see other characters lose their costumes. I think it's a shame. Costumes are so uniquely superhero. They're visually exciting.

[Kedd]

There you go demeaning women again. :-x
You're sexist. Men can be hookers too:mad:


Exactly. Thanks, Kedd.

Somehow it's gotten into someone's mind that Luke Cage isn't convincing in anything but regular clothing.
Well, that may be or it may not be, but regular clothing-- the lack of an individual specific touch, does make him less visually interesting.

I'm starting to see other characters lose their costumes. I think it's a shame. Costumes are so uniquely superhero. They're visually exciting.
I think that if Cage had a simple, but distinctive logo (like the Punisher) he could be a lot better in street clothes. Or, if Cage was still a solo character in a Punisher MAX style book that didn't feature the regular assortment of colorful costumes.

[HOOKS]

We should have a poll to see who is the blackest member of the Bendis board.

I vote Jason.

[Kedd]

We should have a poll to see who is the blackest member of the Bendis board.

I vote Jason.
I hear thatguyfromsyracuse is relatively black. Perhaps him.

[adam_warlock_2099]

You're sexist. Men can be hookers too:mad:

:lol:

Prostitutes Kedd, prostitutes. I bet you call little people midgets. :no:

[HeroBoy]

We should have a poll to see who is the blackest member of the Bendis board.

I vote Jason.

That can only end well.

[Kedd]

:lol:

Prostitutes Kedd, prostitutes. I bet you call little people midgets. :no:
No. That would be rude...I call them elves.

[afroloq]

No. That would be rude...I call them elves.

I think some dwarfs would take exception to being called elves...but at least you didn't call them fairies.

[Kedd]

I think some dwarfs would take exception to being called elves...but at least you didn't call them fairies.
I'm not going to make the easy joke. I refuse. :no:

[HOOKS]

I hear thatguyfromsyracuse is relatively black. Perhaps him.

No one understands The Blacks quite like Travis.

[Patch]

I think that if Cage had a simple, but distinctive logo (like the Punisher) he could be a lot better in street clothes.

Right, he doesn't have to be all jazzed up (that'd make a mess of him). Just something distinctive...

[dasNdanger]

Exactly. Thanks, Kedd.

Somehow it's gotten into someone's mind that Luke Cage isn't convincing in anything but regular clothing.
Well, that may be or it may not be, but regular clothing-- the lack of an individual specific touch, does make him less visually interesting.

I'm starting to see other characters lose their costumes. I think it's a shame. Costumes are so uniquely superhero. They're visually exciting.

I'd like to see what ideas are in your head for the character...have any sketches handy??


das

[adam_warlock_2099]

I'm not going to make the easy joke. I refuse. :no:

What, you hate fairies too? Hater gonna hate . . .

;-)

[Patch]

I'd like to see what ideas are in your head for the character...have any sketches handy??


Nope.
Cage is, in general, 'too cool for school' for me.

[The Zevad]

He can be all the things, personality-wise, that he is now. He can be a daddy, holding his baby in his mighty arms-- but those arms might look more interesting with tatts.


But he's got steel hard skin. The needle would break. Unless it's made of adamantium maybe....but realisticly who's going to make a tattoo needle out of adamantium? Maybe laser a tatto onto him. Or suppress his powers and make him normal temporarily to get a tattoo. But when that happened in New Avengers VOL 1 he got heart problems...so he can't risk that again.

Actually considering how much of a hassle each scenario is why the hell would Luke bother getting tattoos? Sure they look cool but look at how much trouble he would have to go to because of his steel hard skin.

[Patch]

But he's got steel hard skin. The needle would break. Unless it's made of adamantium maybe....but realisticly who's going to make a tattoo needle out of adamantium? Maybe laser a tatto onto him. Or suppress his powers and make him normal temporarily to get a tattoo. But when that happened in New Avengers VOL 1 he got heart problems...so he can't risk that again.

Actually considering how much of a hassle each scenario is why the hell would Luke bother getting tattoos? Sure they look cool but look at how much trouble he would have to go to because of his steel hard skin.

It's the Marvel Universe: He saves the day. Iron Man or the Black Panther or some other guy with hi-tech/deep pockets says "I owe you one, Luke." Luke says, "Well..."
Next thing, he's got his tatts.

It ain't fucking hard to come up with a way.
Maybe comics should be made for teens again, they're not as rigid in their thinking...

[Slewo.O]

It's the Marvel Universe: He saves the day. Iron Man or the Black Panther or some other guy with hi-tech/deep pockets says "I owe you one, Luke." Luke says, "Well..."
Next thing, he's got his tatts.

It ain't fucking hard to come up with a way.
Maybe comics should be made for teens again, they're not as rigid in their thinking...

:wave:

And yeah you're right. Bendis even did an issue where they used a power disruptor so they could perform surgery on him. And it was built by Tony.

[dasNdanger]

Nope.
Cage is, in general, 'too cool for school' for me.

Okay...so how about Elric then?? ;)

HEY! I know! Let's make Luke an albino! :D The novelty of it all - an albino hero in Marvel U!

Woo!

...

..

.

Yeah, yeah. I know. I'll give it a rest. :p


das

[afroloq]

But he's got steel hard skin. The needle would break. Unless it's made of adamantium maybe....but realisticly who's going to make a tattoo needle out of adamantium? Maybe laser a tatto onto him. Or suppress his powers and make him normal temporarily to get a tattoo. But when that happened in New Avengers VOL 1 he got heart problems...so he can't risk that again.

Actually considering how much of a hassle each scenario is why the hell would Luke bother getting tattoos? Sure they look cool but look at how much trouble he would have to go to because of his steel hard skin.
Yup...said it earlier...nobody listens...I need more tatts, man....more tatts

[Challenger]

I believe so.

He is actually back to being fully human.

[afroloq]

He is actually back to being fully human.

OH!! Thank God! That whole Robocop/Terminator look wasn't working for me!

[Jason California]

We should have a poll to see who is the blackest member of the Bendis board.

I vote Jason.


My brother Joe thinks I am the blackest person in his family. That Moorish blood I get from my grandfather is strong to have left an impact so many centuries later without anything to replenish it.

[Whip]

Luke ain't been black since The Commodores...