Thunderbolts Trade Paperback reading advice

[Greg S]

I posted this same question on the Bendis Board, so if you frequent both, I apologize for the duplication, but I know there are posters who come just to the Gail board. So for them, I ask for responses to the following:

So I just read the two Warren Ellis-written TP's of Thunderbolts. I had never read any Thunderbolts before this (except for the two issues printed in the Dark Reign: Deadpool/Thunderbolts trade paperback that I read while working my way through the Deadpool trades) and I don't have any particular affinity for the characters or basic premise, but I did enjoy the storylines Ellis created. At this point, I don't have any intention of reading pre-Ellis Thunderbolts, but I'm considering reading the trades after his.

If you liked the Ellis Thunderbolts, do you recommend reading the ensuing trades? Some of them? Which ones?

Wikipedia says the trades are:

Thunderbolts, Vol. 3: Secret Invasion - inculdes "Thunderbolts #122-125; Thunderbolts: Breaking Point (one-shot); Thunderbolts: International Incident (one-shot); Thunderbolts: Reason in Madness (one-shot)"

Thunderbolts, Vol. 4: Burning Down the House - includes "Thunderbolts #126-129, #132"

Thunderbolts, Vol. 5: Widowmaker - includes "Thunderbolts #133-137"

Agents of Atlas vs. - includes "Thunderbolts #138-140; Avengers vs. Atlas #1-4; X-Men vs. Agents of Atlas #1-2"

Siege: Thunderbolts - includes "Thunderbolts #138-143"

Siege: Thor - includes "Thunderbolts #141-143; New Mutants (vol. 3) #11; Siege: Loki (one-shot); Thor #607-609"

Thunderbolts: Cage - includes "Thunderbolts #144-147; stories from Enter the Heroic Age (one-shot)"

Shadowland: Thunderbolts - includes "Thunderbolts #148-153"

Any advice/comments appreciated.

[zemo]

Well, in volume 4 the whole Ellis team basically falls to bits, as this is when Osborn took over and instated his own team. It stays very dark, though. It's just not written by Ellis. In short, if you only read Thunderbolts because of Ellis, stop doing so.

[Greg S]

Well, in volume 4 the whole Ellis team basically falls to bits, as this is when Osborn took over and instated his own team. It stays very dark, though. It's just not written by Ellis. In short, if you only read Thunderbolts because of Ellis, stop doing so.

I checked it out because of Ellis, but I'm open to other writers. In your opinion is the writing still good? Are the plots interesting?

[zemo]

It's a bit overshadowed by the whole Secret Invasion and then Dark Reign bruhaha, but all in all I would still say it's interesting stories. You basically still have the psychopaths, but you lose the element of them being perched together and slowly boiling until they explode. However, Ant Man is a very nice addition, and Ghost got turned into the very good thing he is nowadays.

What I can absolutely recommend you is the run from when Cage took over, as they are finally no longer bound into big events (except Shadowland, but that was only two issues). The art is very nice in my opinion and it is an as interesting team as the Ellis one, far from being as psychopathic, but instead finally with a hint of redemption again, which has always been at the core of the Thunderbolts.

[NickT]

I loved the Diggle Thunderbolts (V4 and V5). There was also a Deadpool crossover in there, but you don't really need that. Not bad, but not the same. There's a dissapointment in how short it is, and only the first couple of issues have the Ellis members around on the team (One is seen again later), but I reccomend it.



If you're more interested in the Ellis Thunderbolts team, give Dark Avengers a look. Bendis writes it, Deodato is on art still and a few of the team comes from that book. Frustratingly short again, but very good.

[stealthwise]

I've given Diggle numerous chances on various books, and was disappointed each time, so I wouldn't think his Thunderbolts would be worth much. I loved Ellis's short run on the book, so would probably recommend his non-Marvel superhuman work in things like "Black Summer" and "No Hero."

[NickT]

I've given Diggle numerous chances on various books, and was disappointed each time, so I wouldn't think his Thunderbolts would be worth much. I loved Ellis's short run on the book, so would probably recommend his non-Marvel superhuman work in things like "Black Summer" and "No Hero."
Read The Losers?

[stealthwise]

Read The Losers?

Yeah, it was ok... Hellblazer wasn't bad either, his Swamp Thing was weak.

[NickT]

Yeah, it was ok... Hellblazer wasn't bad either, his Swamp Thing was weak.
Okay, I only ask because his Thunderbolts is closest to that from anything he's done. A superpowered bad guy Losers :)

[Chris Jones]

Okay, I once ask because his Thunderbolts is closest to that from anything he's done. A superpowered bad guy Losers :)

I dunno, I felt that Diggle was really hamstrung on that run. He didn't get an opportunity to really do anything sharp or interesting or brutal with any of the characters, they just sort of ran around until his tenure on the title was done. I think the Thunderbolts get sort of weak after Ellis leaves but pick up incredible steam again once the Heroic Age portion of Jeff Parker's run starts up.

[NickT]

I dunno, I felt that Diggle was really hamstrung on that run. He didn't get an opportunity to really do anything sharp or interesting or brutal with any of the characters, they just sort of ran around until his tenure on the title was done. I think the Thunderbolts get sort of weak after Ellis leaves but pick up incredible steam again once the Heroic Age portion of Jeff Parker's run starts up.
While I love it, I do actually agree with you. The first two issues were moving Ellis' characters, then a two issue arc, then the crossover (That wasn't bad but wasn't in the same tone or anything), then a fantastic one shot, then a final arc. It feels like the first near-year of a fantastic two or three year run, without the other years. So as such, it's almost one of my favourite comic runs AND one of the most dissapointing. I do wonder how it would have been if he had done the four or so issues before the Siege tie-in, wether it would have given us an extended middle to the run or whatever.

[Thequeerjock]

Yeah, I must say that I HATED the first issue of Parkers run, but I've realy grown to love him on the book.

[Greg S]

I've given Diggle numerous chances on various books, and was disappointed each time, so I wouldn't think his Thunderbolts would be worth much. I loved Ellis's short run on the book, so would probably recommend his non-Marvel superhuman work in things like "Black Summer" and "No Hero."

Yes, I've read both "Black Summer" and "No Hero" and liked them both.

[Greg S]

Okay, I only ask because his Thunderbolts is closest to that from anything he's done. A superpowered bad guy Losers :)

I really liked "The Losers"! I'll keep that in mind.

[Masculine Todd]

Apparently, the first Ellis Thunderbolts trade is out of print. I can't find it anywhere beyond ebay (where it's marketed up, and I refuse to pay a premium on a trade paperback). Has Jen said anything about an ultimate collection trade that combines the two trades or a possible oversized hardcover?