DCUO Release Date and Subs

[Shurato2099]

According to an interview at IGN:

http://pc.ign.com/articles/114/1141255p1.html

DCUO is due out on the 11th of January and they are apparently offering pre-release lifetime subscriptions for $199.

My question for folks right now (especially the beta testers out there) is this: would you go for a lifetime sub on this game?

When its a game that I like, I try to do lifetime subs when they're offered and I can afford it ... and this time they are and I can ... but I'm on the fence as to whether or not DCUO is the kind of game that I can get into for the long haul.

What do folks think?

[Tobias M]

According to an interview at IGN:

http://pc.ign.com/articles/114/1141255p1.html

DCUO is due out on the 11th of January and they are apparently offering pre-release lifetime subscriptions for $199.

My question for folks right now (especially the beta testers out there) is this: would you go for a lifetime sub on this game?

When its a game that I like, I try to do lifetime subs when they're offered and I can afford it ... and this time they are and I can ... but I'm on the fence as to whether or not DCUO is the kind of game that I can get into for the long haul.

What do folks think?

Important note - lifetime subs are only offered to PC users. We still need to wait and see if they'll roll that out for PS3 players.

[Shurato2099]

Right. They were saying something about that being a problem between the SOE wallet system (caps at $150 I think) and the cost of the lifetime sub. They really should have a workaround for that one.

[Patrick Gerard]

I honestly don't regret my lifetime Star Trek Online sub, if only because it means I never have to leave and can always go back.

Just remember, there is a cash store and you will be tempted to spend money there too. But it's nice to have an MMO you can always go back to, that you never really quit.

[Tobias M]

The only danger is if the game is incredibly disappointing. Thankfully most of the reportage would appear to indicate that it is not (although there is room for improvement).

Suck it Bleedingcool review.

[zemo]

I find lifetime subscriptions pretty bold. I mean, think about it, if they offer a lifetime subsciption, they theoretically have to offer a lifetime of services. That's what, 80 years from now on?

[Stamenflicker]

Well, think of it like EQ and EQ2. Technically, if lifetime subs were available for EQ, they wouldn't necessarily have to extend to EQ2.

The toughest thing for me is getting the collector's edition at $100, then turning around and justifying to my everyday expenses that I will suddenly drop another $200. But if you do the math, it's not a bad deal at all. Basically, you break even again after about 13 months and if you played longer than that, you're pretty much in the black (unless you did 2 six month scrips).

I think I am going to grab a 2 month card for $41 and give it the 90 day try. If they continue to make the kinds of improvements that they have done in Beta, it will be a very solid game by March or April. Their challenge, like most MMO's, will be providing some kind of character development during the end-game. The Star Trek end game just wasn't finished at release, and once they did get it somewhat polished, the rewards were not compelling enough to keep players around. They may have all changed, but I left and didn't come back after 90 days. DCUO has the potential to keep me around, if for no other reason than the comic content... for example, adding a Secret Six chapter mission.

That's where the game can keep me around -- good story around the end game missions with those awesome trippy comic book scenes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVPSmQk0aTc) after you beat a boss. My son and I have wandered the house for weeks reciting Harley's line and imitating her voice. It's been fun.

[Shurato2099]

I honestly don't regret my lifetime Star Trek Online sub, if only because it means I never have to leave and can always go back.

Just remember, there is a cash store and you will be tempted to spend money there too. But it's nice to have an MMO you can always go back to, that you never really quit.

Oh, I've been thoroughly enjoying STO ... really should get back to that at some point now that finals and the holidays are almost over. Also a lifer there. I guess the main thing keeping me on the fence about DCUO is the PS3/PC divide and that you can only get a lifetime sub for the PC side right now as a pre-release thing.

[Patrick Gerard]

Oh, I've been thoroughly enjoying STO ... really should get back to that at some point now that finals and the holidays are almost over. Also a lifer there. I guess the main thing keeping me on the fence about DCUO is the PS3/PC divide and that you can only get a lifetime sub for the PC side right now as a pre-release thing.

The Borg parts for the ships are nice. You get them for completing a raid on either difficulty setting and you don't have to roll on them or anything; you just get one for completing a raid. They make your ship look assimilated.

I'm also a fan of the Featured Episodes (which have time sensitive rewards, you have a month to complete them for an extra bonus when they're new). The next series looks to tie into the main plot of the game. They worked in McCoy and Scotty into the last set... But the real standout was the mission by the Fallout designer where you have the flashlight in the lower decks of the space station and you take on the serial killer and the Devidians at the same time. (There was also a neat one where you're sneaking around a starbase and there are tricks to avoid combat like locking patrols in rooms.)

The Ghost Busters-inspired Proton gun from the Halloween episode remains my favorite weapon.

They seem to be making plans to have something new every Saturday and not just during featured events. It will probably mean that between the Featured events, they'll fill in with the occasional new PvP map or what they're calling "Remastered Episodes" where they plan to take an existing mission, make it available for both factions, upgrade the mechanics, make it level independent, and give it a more thematic reward.

Episode replay is also nice. You go into your ship and access the logs from your ready room to replay any mission for rewards -- although I wish the lower level missions scaled to your level. (It is fun to blow through a low level mission to grind some cash though.)

My big features I'm looking forward to are:

- User Authored missions.
- The Crew system (You can basically assign your Bridge Officers roles like Doctor, First Officer, etc. for special buffs and First Officers can be converted into a high level alt. One of the neat perks there is that there are some personnel you can only get as a first officer like a zombie style Borg, a Breen, or a Federation Gorn, Orion, or Nausicaan. I've been gunning to have the first Gorn Starfleet Captain forever.)
- Ground combat revamp (looks like they're importing some tech from champions, emphasizing motion more, adding a cover system, and doing some FPS-style stuff like giving the option for free targeting)

I'm more skeptical about the rate of content development DCUO will have. Cryptic is still pretty good about free bursts of content even if STO started out too light on content. Creating content for DCUO seems intensive since they're using writers from outside the development house and since they have voiceover for everything I've seen; I don't know that you'll get an unexpected release of quests on a random Thursday just because a developer had some free time in DCUO. (This isn't extremely common in STO but it does happen.)

If I do DCUO, it will probably be February before I start playing.

[Shurato2099]

My pre-order isn't going to be here until a week after launch, just as classes are starting up again.

[stealthwise]

The only danger is if the game is incredibly disappointing. Thankfully most of the reportage would appear to indicate that it is not (although there is room for improvement).

Suck it Bleedingcool review.

The BC review seems to outline exactly what it is about the game that they don't like, and I have to agree, if that's how the game is laid out, it seems awfully lame.

[Stamenflicker]

The author of the article basically began by saying he doesn't play MMO's. It was stupid I think to even attempt a review. That would be about as smart as a vegetarian trying to review a new Burger joint in town... wth did he expect?



It's definately shallow and repetitive on the story end of things, at least through level 20. Most MMO's are this way, with Guild Wars being one of the few exceptions. (And Guild Wars 2 is really set to change the MMO world with player adaptable environments, controlled by player factions, and determined by player actions -- for FREE.)

DCUO is about as repetitive as Aion, like floating around endlessly with civilians in encased force-fields who for some reason don't need your help anymore once you gather up ten of the poor souls. The eye-candy is much more fun and there is a sense that you're headed somewhere when its all said and done. Supposedly over half the game will be "end game" content, specialized missions etc. But that remains to be seen.

Here's the bottom line for me -- If I wanted to just run around by myself in a DC Comics story, I could do that in Batman: Arkham and have a dang good time doing it. I've got maybe 40 hours of gameplay there, then the whole thing becomes repetitive and I'm trying to outdo myself last time I ran through it.

The MMO environment is about making the grind more fun by teaming with people who say and do crazy things -- dualing real players with skills -- creating builds that are fun and unique -- and showing off your brand new costume gear while standing on the guy from Wyoming that you just pulervized with a hammer.

As far as things to do go, I don't mind a steady diet of greasy burgers while in the presence of fun people. Let the rest eat soy. ;)

[Hybrid2]

to me it's very disapointing.

The character creator is unfinish,no color,head and weapons choices

some major powers are missing.and there's little details as to what powers you get.

it's awfully limited.

hated the chat and team system.

I could'nt even figure out how to quit team.
and the chat...you have to compleately stop playing to talk and it's so small you can barely read. also hard to chose channels.

Dislike the general control.you cant click on anything or anyone. hard to target.

visualy the game is wonderfull.but i can barely play it.it get anoying real fast.
I did'nt play since i was trying to beat Metallo,with Superman.
I kept dying and Metallo was back at full power,no so bad,Champion do it to but it keep repeating the cutscene,over and over and over.

I'm gona cancel my pre-order.
I was so looking forward to this game.:surrend:

[Patrick Gerard]

So there are no body sliders OR color customization?

I may have issues with Cryptic at times but they're about the only MMO developer I can play with... although I have high hopes for the APB relaunch... just because my absolute minimum standard now is a customizable costume, color selection, and multiple body types and/or sliders.

If I can't spend an hour tweaking and fine tuning my character's look, why bother?

[Shurato2099]

There is color customization, reasonably decent color customization at that (three colors overall which is kind of meh, but they come off of a 256 color slider + intensity slider + brightness slider) but I have yet to find a way to change my color scheme after chargen. Helmets, Faces, Hair and Skin picks make up a fairly adequate selection of heads but some of those choices are just 'five hairs x five facial hairs == wtf?'. And no body sliders at all, just three stock body types per gender.

[Patrick Gerard]

There is color customization, reasonably decent color customization at that (three colors overall which is kind of meh, but they come off of a 256 color slider + intensity slider + brightness slider) but I have yet to find a way to change my color scheme after chargen. Helmets, Faces, Hair and Skin picks make up a fairly adequate selection of heads but some of those choices are just 'five hairs x five facial hairs == wtf?'. And no body sliders at all, just three stock body types per gender.

Well, that's better than WoW at least abd I can see where three colors keeps it DC. I was concerned that colors were not choosable at all and that there was only one body type per gender.

[Hybrid2]

There is color customization, reasonably decent color customization at that (three colors overall which is kind of meh, but they come off of a 256 color slider + intensity slider + brightness slider) but I have yet to find a way to change my color scheme after chargen. Helmets, Faces, Hair and Skin picks make up a fairly adequate selection of heads but some of those choices are just 'five hairs x five facial hairs == wtf?'. And no body sliders at all, just three stock body types per gender.

oh yeah,the gender bodys..

Men get a hulk,a athletic man and a teen boy.

Women get a woman body of 3 diferent size.
that's it.

[Shurato2099]

They apparently had a fourth body type for each gender, kind of a 'youngish, slim' build to go along with Hyooge, Buff and Leetle Kid (well endowed little kids on the female side, more of a pixie build I guess). Initial costume picks are a little limited but there's lots of other stuff in-game as drops. Powers are split between Powers (sorcery, mentalism, shape changing, etc) and Weapons (guns, martial arts, heavy brawling, hand blasters, staves, one and two handed melee weapon loadouts, etc) and each have sub-abilities, plus there's the pool of Iconic Powers ... some of those are better than others.

[stealthwise]

Hmm, all of the above seems to have convinced me that I never need try an MMO. Nothing against them, but holy hell would I never have enough time to even give them a decent try.

[Gaelforce]

Been in beta for awhile and I'm a veteran MMO player (UO, EQ, EQ2, WAR, WoW, AO, CO, COH, STO and a few more)

It's not worth a lifetime, IMO.

They're basing a lot on the promise of monthly content updates. IF (and that's a huge IF) that works, then MAYBE the game would be worth it, but that's a lot to hedge $250 on (game + lifetime).

I'm a CO lifetime subscriber, btw.

Here's the rundown:

Chargen:

1. 3 body types per gender, and no slender/teen body (yet). They keep talking about it, but there isn't one in beta. No sliders for anything. All women are stacked. All body types are exactly alike.

2. Three colors per character (there goes my Rainbow Archer). You select a palette of three colors, so you can't do Wonder Woman (Red, Blue, White, Gold) or Metamorpho ;)

3. You select a mentor - Superman, Batman or Wonder Woman. Whoever you choose sets your power origin: Meta, Tech and Magic (in that order).

4. You select a power set from a very limited pool - Ice, Fire, Mental, Nature, Gadgets or Sorcery. The glaringly obvious ones that are missing - super strength, electricity, darkness, light, earth and water.

5. You then choose a movement ability - Acrobatics (includes climbing and gliding), Flight and Superspeed (which lets you run up the side of buildings). No teleportation, superleap or tunneling.

6. You must then select a weapon which turns out to be your primary way of fighting in the game. Your choices are Brawling, Martial Arts, Staff, One Handed, Two Handed, Rifle, Two Pistols, Dual Wield and Hand Blaster. Melee is always greater than ranged powers. My mentalist with a hand blaster does more damage punching villains than blasting them.

7. Create a costume next using those three colors. There isn't much variation, but you do get drops during the game to change your look. Still, if you've played Champions Online, you can't help but wonder where the variety went.

Game Play

1. Your weapon is your main combat option. They are (on the PC) operated by combinations of right and left taps and holds on your mouse. By using these weapons, you build up energy to use your powers. Lots of tap-tap-hold-hold.

2. No matter how many powers you buy, you can only have 6 loaded at a time and they are numbered 1-6 on your keyboard. Most of them burn up your power pool pretty quick, others cannot be used unless your power pool is half full or maxed out.

3. Movement is pretty cool, though superspeed drives me insane. You can run up walls and light poles, which is cool, but you'll also accidentally 'stick' to objects in the game which can change your orientation. But flight feels like flight, and the gliding/leaping/grapple line of acrobatics is a lot of fun.

4. Here's the one thing I hate about the game - you do not interact with the environment with your mouse. Movement is W-A-S-D with 'F' turning on your movement power and spacebar for leaping (hold space bar to begin flying, get into glide mode with acrobatics or activate your grapple line). Mouse right and left click is combat, and moving your mouse is for mouselook/turning. You target by trying to line up things in the center of your window and then tabbing between targets.

Once a target goes down, you 'soft target' whatever is in the middle of your screen. You do not target closest to furthest away, so you can be in melee with a couple of bad guys, take down a target and then suddenly find yourself leaping into another group of villains across the street. This especially happens to me a lot when I'm working on a combo. Tap-tap (villain goes down)-hold (fire across the street at the target in the middle of your screen)

(Note - I'm also on PS3 beta and there are the same targeting issues, but at least the powers are easier to access)

5. The game is all about end game grouping to do instances - either group v environment or PvP. Of all the games I have played (and you can see there's a lot) I have never leveled faster. Since I started playing in the beginning of November, I maxed out two toons (max is level 30), messed around with a bunch of others and have gotten a third to 17 in about two or three days. Average to max level as a casual player is about a week.

6. And here's the problem with leveling - the game is designed that you level solo. You start solo, you're given missions by your mentor, you find NPCs near your missions to pick up side-missions and you go on your merry way. There are 'Wanted Posters' for open world villains that require groups, but folks just hook up to take them down (which happens in a minute or two) and then go on their way. Yes, there are Instances for PvP and group content, but you level so darned fast that you leave these behind pretty quick.

7. Leveling content is EXTREMELY repetitious as there isn't nearly enough content to level 1-30 with one mentor. You get a starting mission with your mentor that isn't repeated, then you mix up the rest of your content between all three mentors til you hit 30 with one mission arc for your chosen mentor somewhere in the middle. So I took Wonder Woman as my mentor and fought Felix Faust, then dealt with Bane in Gotham and Queen Bee in Superman's half of Metropolis then Giganta with WW again. But then I created a toon under Batman, took down Scarecrow and then was sent after Giganta, Queen Bee and Bane.

8. Once you hit 30, you queue up for instances. That's it. There's nothing else to do while you wait except go back after those same open world Wanted Poster villains. (Which, oddly enough, people playing Villains also have to take down).

Don't get me wrong - the game is beautiful, the scenery is highly detailed, and the gameplay is fun. Right off the bat you are meeting heroes and villains from DCU, chatting with Zatanna, rescuing Robin, working with Commissioner Gordon, saving the Teen Titans from Trigon and battling the minions of Grodd alongside of the Flash. You're dealing with named boss mobs solo by the time you're only 4th or 5th level.

The problem is, even as a casual player, you whip through the content pretty fast, the content repeats a lot between toons/mentors, and then the game suddenly changes at 30. All of a sudden you're expected to work in pairs and in teams up to 8 to a side and you're expected to learn your 'role' (everyone can DPS, but depending upon your power choice, you're designated 'tank' 'controller' or 'healer', the last of which feels just so very out of place in a superhero game to me.

I would recommend the game just to play it as you would any non-MMO. I honestly just don't know if Sony can be counted on for these regular monthly content updates and if they don't come through and you're not into the whole 'Guild Wars' style of game play, you're going to get bored pretty quick.

[Shurato2099]

Yeah, I pretty much decided that I can't justify a lifetime sub for this ... and probably shouldn't be shelling out another monthly sub either, canceled my pre-order. First time I've ever done that, feels kind of strange.

[Patrick Gerard]

I kinda wish EA had just bought Cryptic Studios when it was on the market, given Champions an extra year in development with some of its team brought onboard, and released that as DCU Online.

Champions with Jim Lee designs, the DC IP, an extra year in development, and $100 million in extra funding (which is probably how much of DCU 's budget would have been left after buying Cryptic) would have been gold.

I'm really a huge fan of Cryptic's developers but I think cash is holding them back. They're the lion's share of what's pulling Atari out of debt and Atari is still millions in the hole. If they had more cash behind them and weren't tasked with keeping a giant debt hole of a parent company intact, I think they'd be producing the best MMOs on the market. They need bigger development teams, longer development cycles, and a parent company that is putting more in than Atari is while sucking less back out.

As-is, I'm pretty impressed with Cryptic's stuff but I'd be more impressed if they could get $100 million + to make their MMOs (like every other AAA developer) instead of having to make due with $10-20 million and half the development time.

[Shurato2099]

Given where the Champions Online engine started (Marvel Studios and Microsoft funding the development of a Marvel MMO before things fell apart) that would have been pretty ironic and also full of win IMO. :)

Cryptic has pretty much always worked on a shoestring budget, though, and has the reputation as 'The Little Company That Can'.

[Gaelforce]

Given where the Champions Online engine started (Marvel Studios and Microsoft funding the development of a Marvel MMO before things fell apart) that would have been pretty ironic and also full of win IMO. :)

Cryptic has pretty much always worked on a shoestring budget, though, and has the reputation as 'The Little Company That Can'.

Which is why it has totally baffled me how DCUO, which I'm pretty sure debuted in-game footage two and a half years ago, is so far behind a little company like Cryptic when it comes to character generation.

Right out of the gate there were more body options (sliders for everything), more costume options and more power options than DCU. It would take me a few months of casual play (I like to go flying around and looking at stuff, poking around, etc.) to max a character at 40 in CO, but I just remember sitting there blinking at the screen after I maxed out my first DCUO character in under two weeks of playing a few hours after work.

[Shurato2099]

Its a matter of resource allocation. They focused on making a very pretty, expansive world to play in rather than going hog wild with the character creation options, figuring that there was plenty of costume diversity available from drops in-game. They've also removed things for various reasons: for instance, it looks like there was a light or lightning power set at one point but it got pulled and the fourth body types were apparently in at one early stage but were likewise pulled (likely to cut down on the art and animation chores in favor of getting the world fleshed out).

[Chris Hansbrough]

Which is why it has totally baffled me how DCUO, which I'm pretty sure debuted in-game footage two and a half years ago, is so far behind a little company like Cryptic when it comes to character generation.

Right out of the gate there were more body options (sliders for everything), more costume options and more power options than DCU. It would take me a few months of casual play (I like to go flying around and looking at stuff, poking around, etc.) to max a character at 40 in CO, but I just remember sitting there blinking at the screen after I maxed out my first DCUO character in under two weeks of playing a few hours after work.

It's Sony Online Entertainment, if there is one thing they are good at it's not making good MMO's

[Tobias M]

Its a matter of resource allocation. They focused on making a very pretty, expansive world to play in rather than going hog wild with the character creation options, figuring that there was plenty of costume diversity available from drops in-game. They've also removed things for various reasons: for instance, it looks like there was a light or lightning power set at one point but it got pulled and the fourth body types were apparently in at one early stage but were likewise pulled (likely to cut down on the art and animation chores in favor of getting the world fleshed out).

Also while I appreciate the complaints about the uniformly large chests (and oversized musculature) - this is Jim Lee's art-design that we're talking about.

The man's incapable of drawing a petite woman/slight fellow. As a hero certainly.

[Hybrid2]

Also while I appreciate the complaints about the uniformly large chests (and oversized musculature) - this is Jim Lee's art-design that we're talking about.

The man's incapable of drawing a petite woman/slight fellow. As a hero certainly.

That explain the huge cleavage on Black Canary.

It make her look silly.

[JKCarrier]

That explain the huge cleavage on Black Canary.

It make her look silly.

I haven't seen Canary yet, but Raven's gigantic rack made me laugh out loud. I mean...Power Girl, fine. Wonder Woman, sure. But Raven?

[Tobias M]

I haven't seen Canary yet, but Raven's gigantic rack made me laugh out loud. I mean...Power Girl, fine. Wonder Woman, sure. But Raven?

Interestingly the excellent article on Jezebel (http://jezebel.com/5716231/superheroines-always-get-superboobs) on just this issue, points out -


For me, however, that argument went out the window when I stood next to Batwoman (pictured on the right) and realized that her chest looked one to two cup sizes smaller than my avatars.

[Stamenflicker]

Certainly a major flaw in the character customization, and a real shame too because augmenting breast size and body types is five or six year old technology. As far as the article goes, I really don't see any reason for a male to be less insecure about the body types than a female. All the men are beefy, muscular, and athletic which is just as far removed from reality as breast size. And athletic, ripped up men are also sex symbols in our culture.

[suedenim]

Certainly a major flaw in the character customization, and a real shame too because augmenting breast size and body types is five or six year old technology. As far as the article goes, I really don't see any reason for a male to be less insecure about the body types than a female. All the men are beefy, muscular, and athletic which is just as far removed from reality as breast size. And athletic, ripped up men are also sex symbols in our culture.

I maybe dislike the default male models even more than the female ones. For better or for worse, you could argue that in the comics as drawn, there's not a lot of variation in female body types, but there's more for male heroes. For instance, Bruce Wayne and the adult Dick Grayson should look quite different, but player characters in DCUO can't have even that minor level of variance. And the "Large" male is always a gigantic, bulky, hulk-type guy with an enormous neck. There definitely should be such characters in a game like this, but not as the ONLY option.

[Gaelforce]

Certainly a major flaw in the character customization, and a real shame too because augmenting breast size and body types is five or six year old technology. As far as the article goes, I really don't see any reason for a male to be less insecure about the body types than a female. All the men are beefy, muscular, and athletic which is just as far removed from reality as breast size. And athletic, ripped up men are also sex symbols in our culture.

My problem with it is that you can't make a female adolescent character. You can sort of pull it off with the male character, but if you want to go the Young Justice route? Sorry, puberty's already been there and done that ;)

[Shurato2099]

Well, I wouldn't call any of the YJ crowd pre-pubescent but yeah the smallest of the female models has either been blessed by a generous breast fairy or had some work done early.

[suedenim]

Well, I wouldn't call any of the YJ crowd pre-pubescent but yeah the smallest of the female models has either been blessed by a generous breast fairy or had some work done early.

Well, given that she's only got two possible bodies to grow into, and they're more stacked than Power Girl, I'd bet on the former....