Black Canary: One of the 10 worst mothers in comics?

[michealdark]

http://www.technewsdaily.com/10-best-and-worst-mothers-in-comics-0248/

And apparently Martha Wayne is too?

[t.c.johnson]

http://www.technewsdaily.com/10-best-and-worst-mothers-in-comics-0248/

And apparently Martha Wayne is too?

This is why I hated that Black Canary miniseries so much...the characterization was HORRIBLE!

[michealdark]

I was hoping part of Shiva's problem in this last BOP arc was going to be that she was pissed off that she entrusted her "sister" to Dinah because she respects Dinah as a person and thought Sin would be in the best possible hands with her, and was violently disappointed that Dinah let Sin go. I'm happy with what we got though. Shiva, still neither a bad guy or good guy, being dragged into a situation she hated because White Canary outsmarted both her and Dinah by using Sin as leverage.

[jhota]

ugh. horrible list.

how dare Martha Wayne get shot to death in front of her son. i mean, couldn't she have done that somewhere else?

and i think the Alien Queen is a pretty good mother; she seems to make sure the kids have food and lodging, anyway. not her fault that humans and Predators come along and bust stuff up.

[SecretSixer_416]

How so? Black Canary knew that Sin wouldn't be safe and even risked her life to fight Shiva to get Sin back from White Canary. She knows where she is.

[michealdark]

The person that created the list pretty much has no clue what a good parent is, that's how so. He says that Martha Wayne was a terrible mother for not teaching Bruce coping skills, Selina is a terrible mom for giving up Helena because her enemies were going after her, and Dinah for the same thing, forgetting that self-sacrifice and knowing what you can and cannot provide are marks of a good parent. Apparently they think a good mother is one that clings to their child (but not a living vicariously way) and never gives them up even in the face of danger

[SecretSixer_416]

The person that created the list pretty much has no clue what a good parent is, that's how so. He says that Martha Wayne was a terrible mother for not teaching Bruce coping skills, Selina is a terrible mom for giving up Helena because her enemies were going after her, and Dinah for the same thing, forgetting that self-sacrifice and knowing what you can and cannot provide are marks of a good parent. Apparently they think a good mother is one that clings to their child (but not a living vicariously way) and never gives them up even in the face of danger

Or at least uses dead cats to avenge...Sorry, that was in bad taste. Anyway, I'm working on my paper about Black Canary and this made me so mad (sorry, I take my BC seriously).

[Kevin T Brown]

No Chesire? :mistrust:

[SecretSixer_416]

No Chesire? :mistrust:

No! Kidnapping, extortion, mass homicides, and sleeping with your heroine using baby father, are signs of good parenting!

[michealdark]

Chesh can't really be held responsible as a bad parent because she gave Lian up to Roy when she was still an infant, and as such had no direct influence on her parenting.

[SecretSixer_416]

Oh, I forgot when she slept with Thomas Blake because she needed a new baby because Lian was said to have an explosive chip in her brain.

[Slewo.O]

No! Kidnapping, extortion, mass homicides, and sleeping with your heroine using baby father, are signs of good parenting!

Or not caring when your child is killed. Don't forget during Villains United when Luthor was holding her kid's life hostage Chesire didn't give a shit as long as she had a replacement.

[SecretSixer_416]

Or not caring when your child is killed. Don't forget during Villains United when Luthor was holding her kid's life hostage Chesire didn't give a shit as long as she had a replacement.

Yup, but Dinah is far worse! I love talking bad about Cheshire because she's such a __________ (fill in with what you like).

[Slewo.O]

Yup, but Dinah is far worse! I love talking bad about Cheshire because she's such a __________ (fill in with what you like).

hottie?

[michealdark]

I have come up for a rationalization for Jade's actions in VU (that don't involve Gail ignoring the previous 15 years of continuity): Jade believed that Lian was doomed no matter what she did. Nothing she could do was going to stop her death (or vegetation. That's how I've always read the "you daughter will live on...in a manner" line).

In all honesty though, it was just bad writing on Gail's part. Though it did lead to the interesting dynamics between Jade and Blake. And the last time Gail used Jade, she seemed to be her traditional "crazy but oddly motherly" self, and her heartbreak when Blake lied to her about losing their son was very real.

[VenomMelendez]

Chesh can't really be held responsible as a bad parent because she gave Lian up to Roy when she was still an infant, and as such had no direct influence on her parenting.

Actually, yes she can be held resposible. She's a horrible person.

[SecretSixer_416]

hottie?

;)

[michealdark]

Actually, yes she can be held resposible. She's a horrible person.

Explain how. She wasn't directly in Lian's life to wreck it, and the few times she was she tended to be a whole different person around her. It was Roy's own vices that had the most damage on her, and even then she never seemed like a really damaged person.

[ScandalSavage]

That list is from two years ago (May 2009 for Mother's Day) it was stupid then and it's stupid now.

[Slewo.O]

Explain how. She wasn't directly in Lian's life to wreck it, and the few times she was she tended to be a whole different person around her. It was Roy's own vices that had the most damage on her, and even then she never seemed like a really damaged person.

Well mainly it's the Justice League's fault for not taking Prometheus seriously.

[Kevin T Brown]

Chesh can't really be held responsible as a bad parent because she gave Lian up to Roy when she was still an infant, and as such had no direct influence on her parenting.

Yes, because being an absent parent is such a good thing! :thumb:




:no:

[michealdark]

Well mainly it's the Justice League's fault for not taking Prometheus seriously.

Actually it's James Robinson's fault for writing a god-awful story, and DC editorial's fault for bogging it down in even more dumbassery.

[michealdark]

Yes, because being an absent parent is such a good thing! :thumb:




:no:

I was raised by my grandparents because my mom gave me to them because she was an addict and knew that unless she got clean she could never be a good parent to me. And I respect her so much for making that choice. That's what Chesh did. She gave Lian up to someone she trusted could take care of her because she didn't think she could be a good parent to her (again, Chesh is a whole different person, aside from VU, when it comes to her kids. They're her strength, her last tenuous hold on sanity, and also her achilles heel. They're the one vulnearbility she has).

[Hugin]

Yes, because being an absent parent is such a good thing! :thumb:




:no:Working plumbing does not make someone a parent. It makes them a gene donor. Cheshire would be a terrible mother, one who would ruin her child's life if she had any real influence over them. Being gone is better than actively harming the kid.

And this list is terrible. Catwoman realized that any kid in her life would be kidnapped, no matter what she did, so she gave the kid up, and she's a bad mom. Really. That's nuts. What should she have done in that situation? Where's Shiva's Mother on the bottom 10? Or heck, the thousand-and-one abusive parents we get every time someone wants to give a villain like The Riddler a Freudian excuse. I want the ability to smack someone over the internet.

[dmh3000]

how dare Martha Wayne get shot to death in front of her son. i mean, couldn't she have done that somewhere else?


I personally wonder how this guy thinks parents can teach their kids "How to cope in the event of both of us getting shot in front of you."

[michealdark]

I'm not sure anyone can cope with that, without therapy

[Lester C.]

Black Canary two adopted kids Roy Harper and Sin didn't exactly turn out well. That said this is comics and really who is a good parent?

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

Black Canary two adopted kids Roy Harper and Sin didn't exactly turn out well. That said this is comics and really who is a good parent?

Jonathan & Martha Kent?

[Chris Hansbrough]

Jonathan & Martha Kent?

Jonathan died and according to this tlist that makes you a shitty parent

[SecretSixer_416]

Black Canary two adopted kids Roy Harper and Sin didn't exactly turn out well. That said this is comics and really who is a good parent?

Ollie adopted Roy and Dinah was there for him to help him get clean. Dinah rescued Sin from a a terrible village and if she hadn't, Sin would've been killed, raped, or had some other dark destiny.

[Hugin]

Ollie adopted Roy and Dinah was there for him to help him get clean. Dinah rescued Sin from a a terrible village and if she hadn't, Sin would've been killed, raped, or had some other dark destiny.Sin was on the short list of potential Lady Shivas. Whether that's better or worse than dead depends on your point of view.

[SecretSixer_416]

Sin was on the short list of potential Lady Shivas. Whether that's better or worse than dead depends on your point of view.

I think all her outcomes, sans Dinah, would've been horrible.

[Patrick Gerard]

ugh. horrible list.

how dare Martha Wayne get shot to death in front of her son. i mean, couldn't she have done that somewhere else?

and i think the Alien Queen is a pretty good mother; she seems to make sure the kids have food and lodging, anyway. not her fault that humans and Predators come along and bust stuff up.

Fun thought.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone really disgrace the memory of Martha Wayne IN A COMIC outside of The Black Glove and even he aimed more for Thomas.

I'd dig it if a villain basically tried to say what this review said. Normally villains targeting Bruce might seem weird but with him now known as Batman's financier...

The obvious route would be villains targeting Bruce as a victim. Which is silly and trite. Attacking a super-hero's loved ones, aside from using them as an insurance policy in a hostage plot, is stupid. Killing a super-hero's wife makes absolutely zero sense and is one of those 2000s things that just seemed like it was an attempt to turn super-villains into flat slasher movie villains.

If I wrote Bat-comics, I'd dispense with this idea immediately by having some wackjob try to kill Bruce, with half of Arkham telling him he's a moron, and then show why setting out to maim/torture/kill a super-hero's civilian base of support is a bad idea and that quality villains recognize that.

However... I think it would be infinitely neater if someone tried to CORRUPT Bruce, to drive a wedge between Bruce and Batman. And they used the memory of Thomas and Martha Wayne to do it.

Y'Know...


You feel guilty, clearly. And it isn't justified... but it's HUMAN. They call it survivor's guilt but, then, you're an educated man so you know all the psychobabble terms. You have all this money because mom and pop got shot and so you throw that money at Batman. You hide behind a nobody in a mask.

You were on the cusp of adulthood. It isn't your fault what happened. It was the damn mugger mostly. Your parents shoulder some blame too. They didn't teach you how to cope.

Now here you are, the man behind Batman. Gotham's favorite son, hiding behind a costume.

Your parents couldn't have foreseen that night but if they taught you how to live without them, you wouldn't need a Batman. You could be a man yourself. You could be everything Batman is and more.

Don't tell me you don't envy him. Batman gets to enact justice for Thomas and Martha Wayne every night. But it will never BE justice, will it?

You can tell yourself that's because nothing will bring your parents back but I KNOW the real reason. It will never be justice as long as it's Batman doing it. It can only be REAL justice if it's Bruce Wayne himself dishing it out, no masks, no proxies. And the world comes to terms with all you've lost and sees you doing in broad daylight what Batman does in the shadows and recognizes, with one voice, that you deserve to take that revenge. Not Batman. YOU.

It can be done. Lex Luthor killed thousands and disgraced the presidency; now he's back at the helm of a Fortune 500 company. Don't tell me Bruce Wayne can't beat a few felons and clean the streets himself.

I can make you more than Batman but you have to give up on this foolish venture. I can only imagine the legal nightmare. The injury lawsuits. Assault. Wrongful imprisonment. You can vet the candidates all you like but how long before they cross the line? It has to be you and only you, with your face there for everyone to see. Do the right thing and end Batman now so that Bruce Wayne can have his justice.

[spidey_mon]

Why is Martha Wayne worse than Rorschach mother? Mrs. Wayne was a nice woman who sent her son to camp with his friends and to meet more friends and learn some good things. Now the mother of Thomas Elliot......

Black canary shouldn't be voted one of the worst because of that, Ollie saved Sin, if Dina went after Sin it would most likely lead the League of Assassins to her

[michealdark]

Sin was on the short list of potential Lady Shivas. Whether that's better or worse than dead depends on your point of view.

And Shiva's the one that gave Dinah charge over her and basically said, "Don't let her turn into me."

[Nick Soapdish]

That list is from two years ago (May 2009 for Mother's Day) it was stupid then and it's stupid now.

Exactly.

Some of the choices make sense, but some are just flat out stupid like Martha Wayne and Dinah. It's not exactly criminal if every parent hasn't taught their kid how to deal with having both parents shot in front of them by the age of six.

[Jef UK]

I can't believe y'all are taking a goofy mother's day list seriously. I bet the writer didn't take it seriously.

[stealthwise]

I'd put Ellen Baker at the top of the "best" mothers list. I haven't even read 52, but she was great in Morrison's run.