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leafinsectman
11-23-2010, 08:11 PM
Ben Grimm could potentially die since he's had his happy moment although my guess is either Reed or Sue, but probably Reed. And I'm guessing (and hoping) its not a permanent death, maybe the character returns in FF 600.

Here's a lengthy Hickman interview which might have some clues.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=29542

Hickman Counts Down to "Three"

by Dave Richards, Staff Writer | More from this Author |

The Fantastic Four are the explorers of the Marvel Universe, blazing trails across the globe, outer space and other dimensions in order to find new people, places and cultures. During his tenure as writer on the book, Jonathan Hickman has led the First Family of the Marvel Universe to numerous new discoveries, all the while putting events into motion that will result one of the family being killed. The death will occur early next year in the finale of the current "Three" story arc by Hickman and artist Steve Epting. CBR News spoke with Hickman about what readers can expect from the remaining chapters of "Three" as well as his plans for the book after one of the title characters meets their untimely demise.

Beginning his run on "Fantastic Four" with issue #570, Hickman has since had the FF embark upon a number of important but seemingly unrelated adventures. First, Reed encountered an organization composed of alternate reality versions of himself, dedicated to solving all the problems of the Multiverse. Johnny and Ben then ventured to Nu Earth for some time, and the FF discovered four secret cities and their inhabitants - a city beneath the Earth, a lost city of Atlantis, a new settlement on the Blue Area of the moon inhabited by four Inhumans-style races and a city in the Negative Zone. With "Three," readers have begun to see how all the elements from these seemingly unrelated aventures fit together and what they mean.

"It's kind of how I tell stories. Sometimes things will seem random or haphazard, like in my issue (FF# 575) where the team is underground. It was my sixth issue and there's that one page where they're going through the caverns and they come across the dead body of Galactus from the future. It was a full page splash - and then they went on their merry way. I'm sure that some readers were like, 'That's kind of a waste of a page,' or 'Wow, that was pretty random.' Now, with 'Three,' you see why it's such a big deal," Hickman told CBR News. "In the fourth issue, the Nu-World one, Johnny, Ben and the kids went on this adventure. It seemed like an arbitrary story, but if you go back and read it you'll see that I was setting up a conflict that would begin to pay off in the now. I work pretty far ahead and now we're to the point where all of this is starting to tie together, pay off and unfold into what is going to be a new kind of Fantastic Four story. Okay, I'm rambling - you'll see what all of that means going forward."

"Three" began in "Fantastic Four" #583 with an issue that saw Reed Richards young daughter, Valeria visit her father's old nemesis Doctor Doom. Despite her young age, Val is as smart as, if not smarter than, her father, and she knows the Fantastic Four are about to tackle a major crisis that could have disastrous consequences for her family. She informed Doom that if he assists her with the handling of this crisis, she'll help him with a problem of his own. "During the Intelligencia stories in 'Hulk' and 'Incredible Hulk,' Doom suffered brain damage. He came out of it less than what he was. Up until this point, he's hidden the fact that's what happened. Doom isn't Doom. He's some inferior version, and of course with Victor, that's unacceptable," Hickman explained. "So he's got to do something about that. We won't see a whole lot of him in the rest of the 'Three' arc until the epilogue, but when he shows up at the end everybody will go, 'Ah-Ha!'

"So we have big Doom plans coming up," Hickman continued. "I'm very excited about getting to write him. I think the only thing I've written with Doom besides this little bit so far in FF is that story I did for 'Dark Reign.' It was kind of a Doom daydream story, which was a lot of fun. I think I get the character. I think I can write him well and I'm really, really looking forward to it. Oh, I'm also looking forward to Kristoff as well."

With Marvel's First Family only a few months away from a time of great sadness, Hickman gave one team member a particularly happy moment in "Fantastic Four" #584. In the issue, part two of the "Three" arc, The Thing was reverted back to his human form for a week and spent time with friends and loved ones doing things that are difficult, if not impossible for him to do in his normal rocky form.

"That issue was a lot of fun to write. Ben Grimm is a lot of peoples' favorite character, not only within the FF, but the Marvel Universe as a whole. He's a pretty simple character, not confusing at all, but one that lends itself to being able to tell a lot of fun stories. He's a good character." Hickman remarked. "The issue was kind of a mix between a 'What If?' and 'Day in the Life' story, and we got a lot of fantastic fan mail for it, so clearly it resonated. I also think that it benefited from being in what was a non-action issue, [with] Steve doing a wonderful job of making it dramatic. No surprise there - Steve is a superior artist and I think he did his normal superior job with the issue. Just good comics, nothing wrong with that."

"Fantastic Four" #585 continues "Three" with a story that examines the dynamic between the Invisible Woman and Namor, The Sub-Mariner, who has long carried a torch for the lovely Mrs. Richards. " I think it's interesting that Reed is not oblivious to it, but confident in his position in Sue's life. I think it's interesting for Susan because while she's a mom and a dutiful wife and all these other semi-parochial things, there's this other side that, while it doesn't engage in Namor's overt advances, she never puts an end to it," Hickman said. "Then there's Namor, who clearly respects Reed Richards, but in the most primal way doesn't. [Laughs] I think it's one of those interesting character triangles that, while nothing may ever happen, it's a constant potential dynamo of drama. You know the tension is very real."

In "Fantastic Four" #586, Hickman explores another character relationship he finds compelling; the one between Reed Richards and Galactus, the world devourer. "Reed is of a universally relevant intelligence. So as we've seen with the council of Reeds from my first storyline, 'Solve Everything,' if Reed truly puts his mind to operating on that scale, he can build worlds and repair suns. For even Galactus, he's not someone to be ignored. And maybe it's not just Reed. Maybe it's his entire family. There's always the potential for Franklin to turn into what we know he could be," Hickman remarked. "I know it's not in continuity, but I thought it was interesting that in 'Earth X,' Franklin became Galactus. We're not going to do that, but I thought that was kind of cool. [Laughs] Regardless, Galactus is intrinsically tied to the First Family, so if we can't put together a good Galactus story, what the hell are we doing?"

Post-Galactus, much of the action in the remaining chapters of "Three" will involve an assault on the Baxter Building by the Anti-Priest and his army. "The Anti-Priest is the advocate for Negative Zone ideology. He's the face of the cult of the Negative Zone," Hickman stated. "That's part of the 'Four Cities' stuff that I kind of dropped on everyone eight or nine issues ago. All of that comes to a head in 'Three.' This just another piece of the puzzle."

In January, Hickman welcomes in the new year with the conclusion of "Three" and the promised death of a team member. "I'm a pretty analytical guy, but writing that scene was an emotional thing. For me, it's S.O.P. that I don't really write myself into a lot of the things that I do, but, clearly, the Fantastic Four is the most personal book that I write," Hickman revealed. "I steal a lot of Franklin and Val's lines from my kids. Certainly, the way I write Reed talking about Sue is how I feel about my wife. I had a great family growing up, which just makes it generally easier to write this kind of stuff. Back to the point, it was pretty emotional. I believe I actually wrote the death scene after I finished issue #583. I did it that way so I wouldn't miss the spine of the story."

The identity of the Fantastic Four member meeting their final fate won't be revealed until issue #587, but whoever it is, the team will suffer terribly with their passing. "If Reed is not around, then I think the drive of the book won't be there, and by that I mean the super narrative; the bigger picture. If we lose Reed, the team, instead of having a thrust of being able to navigate these huge cosmic events that are coming our way, they'll be lost, which is an interesting story to tell," Hickman remarked. "There's so many potential things that could come out of that. Like, would Val step up and try to take his place? Or would they try to replace him with someone who's similar to him? Would they need help from Tony Stark? Or would they need help from Hank Pym? Someone like that? Obviously, the strengths and flaws of those characters added to the book would make things extremely interesting."

"If we lose Sue, we lose the glue that keeps everybody together. In essence, we'd lose the family. If we lose her, clearly one of the things that would happen is that the team would fly apart a little bit. The stories that we would get out of that would be, 'What's the purpose of what we're doing?'

"If you lose Ben, you lose the heart and soul of the team; what's good and what's right. Not on a simplistic level, but on a level of moral purity. That's the question of what is a hero in the Marvel Universe. Ben is all about overcoming, and in the darkest moments, it's Ben that keeps fighting. So, if we were to lose Ben, then the stories where the chips were down and someone has to make a difference, the question would be who would step up in a way that would not only save the team, but when you extrapolate things to the readers' perspective, save us all. That's that character. He's Rocky, like Tom Brevoort likes to say. He keeps getting up. And that's a perfect metaphor for humanity, which is one of the things we're touching on with all the Future Foundation stuff. So, obviously, there would be a ton of stories we could tell there as well.

"If we lost Johnny, I think we officially lose the spirit of the Fantastic Four; the reckless abandon of adventure. The willingness to wide-eyed and innocently jump head first into things. Johnny's also really the connection between the kids and the adults. In a lot of ways, he makes the family's generational dynamic work. He's the bridge between them. If we lose him, we lose the ability to properly step in both of those worlds. We've done so much with the kids, and I don't know whether or not you noticed, but Johnny has always been around whenever we do a kids story. It's almost always Johnny because he's a perfect kind of tweener. So, that would lend itself to stories about the disconnect between the now and the future."

Hickman stated that he and his editors thought long and hard about who they were going to kill off before making their choice. "After the fact, what we're going to do will make a lot of sense if you go back and analyze the choices that we made. It's going to be an interesting story," Hickman explained. "I do want to stress, as always, that it's not haphazard. There's a narrative structure that I think will make the book better and more relevant. I really do."

February's issue #588 is a special epilogue issue where the fallen Fantastic Four member will be mourned. "There's a lot more going on. It's oversized. It's got an eight page back-up story and a 22 page silent story in the front half," Hickman revealed. "The silent story is really interesting. It's really kind of a closure point and gives a lot of hints of what's going to be launching out of 'Three.' It's one of my favorite issues of 'Fantastic Four' that I've written. And, as an added bonus, I've never written a silent issue before, so it was educational and fun as well."

In the back-up story, the Amazing Spider-Man makes an appearance to console Reed and Sue Richards's grief-stricken son Franklin, and it won't be the only involvement Spidey has with the post-death Fantastic Four. Teaser art for Dan Slott's "Amazing Spider-Man" series has hinted that at some point the web-slinger will don a costume with an insignia that's a combination of a spider and the FF's trademark 4. Hickman also has more plans for Spidey after issue #588.

"Well, it's early yet, but we're not saying that we're only going to be selecting one new member for the group. Spider-Man would be kind of a logical choice in that the kids love him so much, but, again, we're not saying it's set in stone by any stretch of the imagination. One of the things that I'm going to be doing in the book going forward, in whatever form it takes, is [making the title] much more of a Marvel Universe book. Up until now it's been a very insular Fantastic Four story. This, the story going forward, will be me injecting all of those characters back into the Marvel Universe," Hickman said. "There's going to be a lot of other characters in the book. In fact, we don't even know that the team really is going to be a team anymore. Will they become something else? You'll find out soon enough."

Hickman is very grateful to the readers and all his collaborators for the support they've given the story. "I think that Steve and Paul [colorist Paul Mounts] are doing a phenomenal job on the book. It looks beautiful. The story feels epic. I'm very happy with the support we're getting from the company," the writer remarked. "I think they're trying to make 'Fantastic Four' a more relevant book and I'm very, very excited about the plans for the upcoming year. Very, very exciting stuff. The plan I laid out at the very beginning remains intact and, yes, I'm very excited about that, but we're going to turn up the volume a bit more. It should be very cool."

I just noticed that he says "if we lose Reed", "if we lose Sue" and "if we lose Johnny" but he says "if you lose Ben" :o I could just be reading too much into it though.

Mattman
11-23-2010, 08:15 PM
Is there such a thing as a permanent death in comics these days? I swear this shit is getting worse than soap operas.

leafinsectman
11-23-2010, 08:18 PM
Is there such a thing as a permanent death in comics these days? I swear this shit is getting worse than soap operas.

If someone can come up with a good story then anyone can return but I think this is the first time I didn't want a fictional character to die. Other than Optimus Prime.

John Drake
11-23-2010, 08:18 PM
I think it'll be Reed.

Hickman's run has been pretty Reed-centric so far, so he'll probably be the one to go.

FirstGeer
11-23-2010, 08:19 PM
I really wish I had been reading this. I'll put on my to do list.

Ryan Elliott
11-23-2010, 08:21 PM
Why do any of them have to die?

Spidey616
11-23-2010, 08:22 PM
I'd be surprised if Ben dies only because he already died and came back during Waid's run.

leafinsectman
11-23-2010, 08:23 PM
I think it'll be Reed.

If Hickman is writing Val and Franklin like his kids and he's patterning Reed and Sue's relationship to his relationship with the missus then maybe he sees himself as Reed. And maybe it'd be interesting for him to write a story where he's dead and how everyone reacts to it.


I really wish I had been reading this. I'll put on my to do list.

I'm gonna be unemployed in a couple of weeks and this is probably the only book that I'll keep buying on a monthly basis.

Ray G.
11-23-2010, 08:27 PM
I'm really thinking it's going to be a Storm.

leafinsectman
11-23-2010, 08:30 PM
I'm really thinking it's going to be a Storm.

Could be Sue, which could really change Reed. I know she's had two "deaths" in recent memory but this could be the one that gets her. Third time's a charm and whatnot.

But then again, we already have one genius that has a dead wife. Plus the whole 'there's 3 dudes in the team and you kill the one woman' thing.

GelfXIII
11-23-2010, 08:32 PM
Why do any of them have to die?

This.

leafinsectman
11-23-2010, 08:39 PM
Why do any of them have to die?


This.

I feel the same way. I don't want any of them to die. But maybe this is their Avengers Disassembled moment. They need to do something to make this book popular again. Plus, I don't think it'll be forever.

chazbot
11-23-2010, 08:40 PM
http://images1.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Robot-how-i-met-your-mother-1261737_100_100.jpg

batroc the leaper
11-23-2010, 08:41 PM
I don't remember the specifics, but it seemed like they were foreshadowing sue to die, but it was just a feeling that I got

Also, I just bought Red Mass, Transhuman, Pax Romana, and Nightly News (by just I mean periodically within the last 2 months) and holy shit. Other than his Marvel work (which I am reading) is there anything else of his that I can read, because that man can write.

Ryan Elliott
11-23-2010, 08:44 PM
I feel the same way. I don't want any of them to die. But maybe this is their Avengers Disassembled moment. They need to do something to make this book popular again. Plus, I don't think it'll be forever.


Then write and draw better stories.

Pointless deaths of beloved characters who we KNOW won't stay dead for barely even a year just for "sales" is cheap and unimaginitive.

Andrew
11-23-2010, 08:50 PM
I feel the same way. I don't want any of them to die. But maybe this is their Avengers Disassembled moment. They need to do something to make this book popular again. Plus, I don't think it'll be forever.

Ignoring the John Byrne run, Fantastic Four is the one longtime Marvel book that probably should've ended when its original creators departed back in the early 1970s. It's a product of that time, through and through, and there's an inherent limit to how interesting the concept can be to most people.

Magnum V.I.
11-23-2010, 08:51 PM
Then write and draw better stories.

Pointless deaths of beloved characters who we KNOW won't stay dead for barely even a year just for "sales" is cheap and unimaginitive.

Yeah! You hear that DC!!!! Superman walking across America and the death of batman were lame!!!

Ryan Elliott
11-23-2010, 08:53 PM
Yeah! You hear that DC!!!! Superman walking across America and the death of batman were lame!!!


Marketing it as the death of Batman when he didn't "die" IS lame.

Mattman
11-23-2010, 08:53 PM
I feel the same way. I don't want any of them to die. But maybe this is their Avengers Disassembled moment. They need to do something to make this book popular again. Plus, I don't think it'll be forever.
Haven't they been trying to do that since John Byrne left the book?

leafinsectman
11-23-2010, 08:53 PM
Then write and draw better stories.

Pointless deaths of beloved characters who we KNOW won't stay dead for barely even a year just for "sales" is cheap and unimaginitive.

I agree with you but the average comic book buyer might not. I personally don't care if its a top 10 book or if it doesn't break the top 100 so long as I'm enjoying the stories but I'm sure Marvel wants it to be up there.

P.S. I would never think of Hickman as unimaginative. I'm gonna wait and see first where this goes.

Ryan Elliott
11-23-2010, 08:55 PM
I agree with you but the average comic book buyer might not. I personally don't care if its a top 10 book or if it doesn't break the top 100 so long as I'm enjoying the stories but I'm sure Marvel wants it to be up there.

p.S. I would never think of Hickman as unimaginative. I'm gonna wait and see first where this goes.


Me neither, but certain aspects of stories or ideas CAN be unimaginative.

Like killing a SUPER popular character.

leafinsectman
11-23-2010, 08:57 PM
Me neither, but certain aspects of stories or ideas CAN be unimaginative.

Like killing a SUPER popular character.

That seems fair. But like I said, this is Hickman we're talking about. If I could read all the other shitty/not so great deaths in comic book history then I'm at least gonna give this a shot.

Evan the Shaggy
11-23-2010, 09:19 PM
Reed and Ben have died before.

I don't think Johnny has, and if the rumors about Spidey becoming a member are true, I think he'd make a good replacement.

Fizz
11-23-2010, 09:47 PM
I'll guess Johnny.

Something in the article got me thinking.

In the back-up story, the Amazing Spider-Man makes an appearance to console Reed and Sue Richards's grief-stricken son Franklin Johnny is probably the FF member that Spidey has spent the most time with. Spidey could console Franklin by sharing some of the good times he and Johnny had together.

Just a possibility...
Second guess would be Ben because of his recent happy moments which could possibly serve as a send off for him.

Reed just seems a bit too important, both as a part of the family/team and as one of the big brains of the overall Marvel Universe. With Sue, we'd be losing the only woman on the team.

Whoever it is, I have faith that Hickman has an interesting story in mind.

RoShambo
11-23-2010, 09:58 PM
I'll guess Johnny.

Something in the article got me thinking.
Johnny is probably the FF member that Spidey has spent the most time with. Spidey could console Franklin by sharing some of the good times he and Johnny had together.

Just a possibility...
Second guess would be Ben because of his recent happy moments which could possibly serve as a send off for him.

Reed just seems a bit too important, both as a part of the family/team and as one of the big brains of the overall Marvel Universe. With Sue, we'd be losing the only woman on the team.

Whoever it is, I have faith that Hickman has an interesting story in mind.

I'll agree, for the same reason and also
He said that Johnny's around whenever they do a kid's story, and Spidey's really popular with the kids.

leafinsectman
11-23-2010, 11:50 PM
The Spidey thing in the article made me think it was gonna be Johnny but I sort of didn't want him to be the one who dies. Not because I love him but because I don't think it'd matter much to me if he dies. And maybe because I wanna see Spidey and Johnny on the same team.

Marcdachamp
11-24-2010, 05:01 AM
I voted Reed, but I think it's a 50/50 shot between him and Johnny. Sue should be safe and Ben just joined the Avengers. Why would Bendis bother putting him on the team for one arc?

BriRedfern
11-24-2010, 05:05 AM
I voted Reed, but I think it's a 50/50 shot between him and Johnny. Sue should be safe and Ben just joined the Avengers. Why would Bendis bother putting him on the team for one arc?

Not really saying this is the case, but doesn't he become a little redundant with Rulk joining? Or are they on different teams?

Marcdachamp
11-24-2010, 05:06 AM
Not really saying this is the case, but doesn't he become a little redundant with Rulk joining? Or are they on different teams?

Different teams.

I AM GROOT!
11-24-2010, 05:09 AM
I said Johnny, especially since we have the original Torch back, as well as Toro.

Reed may die, though, but it's already been done for a period of 2-3 years back in the 1990s.

Kevin T Brown
11-24-2010, 05:29 AM
Is there such a thing as a permanent death in comics these days? I swear this shit is getting worse than soap operas.

Minus the product placement.

SAVETHEB
11-24-2010, 05:30 AM
They should just fucking kill them all and come up with something new for once.

The Dean
11-24-2010, 05:36 AM
I think it's Johnny.

Mostly from the issue where Johnny took Franklin and Artie(?) toy shopping and fought Arcade. Then future Franklin tells Val that his favorite hero was always the Human Torch.

artimoff
11-24-2010, 06:18 AM
If someone can come up with a good story then anyone can return but I think this is the first time I didn't want a fictional character to die. Other than Optimus Prime.


There are many great ways to remove cast members from your cast. Death isn't one of them.

rogerio
11-24-2010, 06:22 AM
Sue.:sad:

michealdark
11-24-2010, 06:26 AM
I say the best story potential lies with killing Sue. Reed is a loving, but incredibly distant, father. Without Sue around he'd be forced out of his comfort zone and forced to step up as a dad. He couldn't hide behind nannies, robots, holograms, or his wife anymore. He'd have to face them and really get to know them and help them get through. Especially Val, since I think her deal with Doom is going to blow up in her face and be the thing that gets whoever dies killed, and she's going to have to deal with that guilt.

Rick_O
11-24-2010, 06:40 AM
I'd say its the thing that going to die. I think that Ben grimm is going to remain human from now on...until her gets his powers back again that is.

mario
11-24-2010, 07:25 AM
Then write and draw better stories.

Pointless deaths of beloved characters who we KNOW won't stay dead for barely even a year just for "sales" is cheap and unimaginitive.

Hear hear.
killing a character is the thesis of unimaginitive writing.

Ray G.
11-24-2010, 10:18 AM
I say the best story potential lies with killing Sue. Reed is a loving, but incredibly distant, father. Without Sue around he'd be forced out of his comfort zone and forced to step up as a dad. He couldn't hide behind nannies, robots, holograms, or his wife anymore. He'd have to face them and really get to know them and help them get through. Especially Val, since I think her deal with Doom is going to blow up in her face and be the thing that gets whoever dies killed, and she's going to have to deal with that guilt.

I think I agree. Ben and Reed have been done, and killing Johnny seems like it would just suck the fun out of the book while impacting the main dynamic the least.

Taxman
11-24-2010, 10:22 AM
I would hope it would be Reed Richards.

gasimakos1
11-24-2010, 11:18 AM
Hear hear.
killing a character is the thesis of unimaginitive writing.

exactly. for example, that awful 'watchmen' comic and all of those ridiculous pulp comics about murders and crime. who reads that shit? psh. terrible writing.

gasimakos1
11-24-2010, 11:25 AM
They should just fucking kill them all and come up with something new for once.

hilarious

Mattman
11-24-2010, 11:26 AM
exactly. for example, that awful 'watchmen' comic and all of those ridiculous pulp comics about murders and crime. who reads that shit? psh. terrible writing.
Difference is, those deaths actually meant something BECAUSE THOSE CHARACTERS ACTUALLY STAYED DEAD! Jesus, why do some people not get this?

Rick America
11-24-2010, 12:12 PM
Could be Sue, which could really change Reed.

I'm not sure about Sue. She played a big role in Millar's run ("Future" Sue), and Hickman seems to be picking up a lot of the threads that Millar had left. The reasoning in other threads about Johnny ring true though...ut I think those "heads" are a red herring.

My best bet is the 3 does not refer to the Fantastic Four but to the four members of the Richards family. And there , my bet is Val dies.

S. Earl
11-24-2010, 12:24 PM
My best bet is the 3 does not refer to the Fantastic Four but to the four members of the Richards family. And there , my bet is Val dies.

Damn. Didn't think of that.

capntightpants
11-24-2010, 12:26 PM
I'm not sure about Sue. She played a big role in Millar's run ("Future" Sue), and Hickman seems to be picking up a lot of the threads that Millar had left. The reasoning in other threads about Johnny ring true though...ut I think those "heads" are a red herring.

My best bet is the 3 does not refer to the Fantastic Four but to the four members of the Richards family. And there , my bet is Val dies.

Only to be resurrected and hyper-aged to a super hot grown woman.

Ray G.
11-24-2010, 12:30 PM
Only to be resurrected and hyper-aged to a super hot grown woman.

Yep. :lol:

I'm willing to bet that none of the possible deaths are going to stay dead. But I also don't think it's one of the kids. Hickman seems to be setting up a lot of stuff with them - in fact, I'd say their role is the most intriguing part of his run - and it makes a lot more sense that the fallout from this story will involve their response to the death of one of the Four.

I really think it's Sue or Johnny, but Reed is also a possibility. Ben is the only one I'm sort of ruling out.

Bedlam66
11-24-2010, 01:17 PM
I just hope it's not The Thing. I like him in new avengers.

leafinsectman
11-24-2010, 01:32 PM
There are many great ways to remove cast members from your cast. Death isn't one of them.

I agree. At this point I'd settle for "they got hurt really bad and would have to go on some sort of sci fi rehab for the next 2-3 years".


My best bet is the 3 does not refer to the Fantastic Four but to the four members of the Richards family. And there , my bet is Val dies.

This is why I included other characters in the poll.

CapnChaos
11-24-2010, 02:57 PM
Spider-Man with a paper bag over his head.

PhoenixFactor
11-24-2010, 03:17 PM
I think who ever dies, will in part die because Ben took the serum and wasn't his normal self to save them.

Piechuck
11-24-2010, 04:26 PM
Reed - Needed for Illuminati stories
Sue - Millar just killed her during his run
Thing - On New Avengers

So my guess is Human Torch

The Zevad
11-24-2010, 04:48 PM
Spider-Man helps Franklin deal with it. Hmmm. Johnny usually does that.....hmmm.

Arion
11-25-2010, 11:09 AM
All I have to say is I'll never forget Marvel if they kill Willie Lumpkin.

SidekicksRevenge
11-25-2010, 01:35 PM
I keep thinking it has to be Reed, just based on the opening arc of the run and the way it forces a tonal shift and uncharted direction for the series that any of the other three wouldn't.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

mario
11-25-2010, 01:49 PM
exactly. for example, that awful 'watchmen' comic and all of those ridiculous pulp comics about murders and crime. who reads that shit? psh. terrible writing.

Dude, see that point flying there? A couple of feet above your head? Yeah, you missed it.

rwsmith
11-25-2010, 02:33 PM
The more I think about it the more Johnny makes sense. Especially with Spider-man consoling Franklin afterwards and possibly even stepping in to join the team for a bit.

The Zevad
11-25-2010, 02:39 PM
We've seen Sue off the team many a time. And we saw her die..well sort of with the future Invisible Woman.We saw the team without Reed during the DeFalco/Ryan run when they thought he was dead. We've seen the team without Ben. Aww..the She-Hulk days. Nostalgia. And Waid killed him off only to have Jack Kirby/God bring him back. So we have seen Reed, Sue, and Ben..DIE. (Well if you don't count a Beyonder powered Dr. Doom blasting Reed, Johnny, and Ben to death in Secret Wars. Or the FF being killed during Infinity Gauntlet that got undone quick)

Who has ALWAYS been there? Johnny. We've never seen a long term regular team dynamic with just Reed, Ben, and Sue...at least I don't think we have. Honestly I only got into the FF during the 90s and only collected back to the Byrne run. I could be totally off fucking base.

Those more versed in FF lore. Has Johnny NOT been on the team?

Have we at all read a FF sans Human Torch?

Hmmm...time for me to do some research.

But Johnny seems the obvious choice. So that might mean somebody else is marked. Which might get the following comments.

"You just fucking killed Ben and had Kirby bring him back? What again?!"

"Didn't Millar just kill future Sue? Oh come on again?"

"Reed dead? Again? Whatever."

But Johnny dying might cut through some of that cynasism. Hmmmm...

leafinsectman
11-25-2010, 02:44 PM
Just because Spidey consoles Franklin doesn't necessarily mean its Johnny. It makes sense but its not guaranteed.

- It could be a red herring.
- He could be sad because someone else died.
- Johnny might need help with consoling Franklin because one of his parents died so he brings in Spidey.
- Doesn't Franklin really like Spidey?

Also, I don't think Johnny never having died is really much to go on. Hickman said he didn't really think too much about the previous FF stuff. He's just doing what he wants to do. It might be a reason, it might not. But I don't think that'd be Hickman's MAIN reason. He doesn't strike me a the type of guy who'd kill someone just because they haven't been killed or off the book.

EDIT: Come to think of it, he has been referencing a lot of the recent stuff. But I'm guessing its because it serves a purpose. If he didn't like the other team 'deaths' then I'm sure he's not gonna consider them. At least, I'm basing that on previous interviews that I've read. I still don't think he'd kill off Johnny mainly because he's never been killed. But it might be part of the reason.

I think the thing about Johnny being his fave hero (I've forgotten about that, gotta go re-read it) is more of a clue than Spidey consoling Franklin.

Oh yeah, apparently Sue is a mentor figure in Spider-Girl? So perhaps more reason it isn't her.

The Zevad
11-25-2010, 02:51 PM
Just because Spidey consoles Franklin doesn't necessarily mean its Johnny. It makes sense but its not guaranteed.

- It could be a red herring.
- He could be sad because someone else died.
- Johnny might need help with consoling Franklin because one of his parents died so he brings in Spidey.
- Doesn't Franklin really like Spidey?

Also, I don't think Johnny never having died is really much to go on. Hickman said he didn't really think too much about the previous FF stuff. He's just doing what he wants to do. It might be a reason, it might not. But I don't think that'd be Hickman's MAIN reason. He doesn't strike me a the type of guy who'd kill someone just because they haven't been killed or off the book.

I think the thing about Johnny being his fave hero (I've forgotten about that, gotta go re-read it) is more of a clue than Spidey consoling Franklin.

Oh yeah, apparently Sue is a mentor figure in Spider-Girl? So perhaps more reason it isn't her.

Yeah I have the same thought process. Johnny Storm seems the obvious canidate. So that means he's not and it's Reed, Sue, or Ben on the Grim Reaper's list.

Fuck they killed them again? ;)

leafinsectman
11-25-2010, 02:54 PM
Fuck they killed them again? ;)

I don't know. Like I said with my edits above, I don't think Hickman is gonna take into account the previous deaths if he didn't think too much of them. Heck, how many times have we seen Galactus? But he's gonna do it because he has a Galactus story in him. If he feels like he has an awesome Reed death story then he's gonna do it no matter who has or hasn't died and how many times they've died.

Although if Hickman wants to come in here and correct me then I'm cool with it :)

Spidey616
11-25-2010, 03:11 PM
Lots of votes for Johnny I see

Ebonstone
11-25-2010, 03:34 PM
Lots of votes for Johnny I see

Of the characters that have come and gone in FF, Johnny has almost always been there.

He just feels...doomed

tom daylight
11-25-2010, 03:39 PM
Johnny's the only one of the three who hasn't died or "died" before

Having said that I want to change my vote to Franklin and/or Val, and the Four will become Three by virtue of Reed and/or Sue leaving as a result...

leafinsectman
11-25-2010, 03:41 PM
He just feels...doomed

Pun intended?

gasimakos1
11-25-2010, 05:26 PM
Dude, see that point flying there? A couple of feet above your head? Yeah, you missed it.

I dont see the point in criticizing hickman for bringing back a character after he killed them off, because it hasnt happened yet. All we know is that one of the characters is dying, not that theyre going to die and come back.

leafinsectman
11-25-2010, 08:03 PM
I'm listening to the 11 O'Clock Comics podcast and they think Johnny is gonna bite the dust, mainly because he's the most expendable. I think Johnny's death would bother me the least but I also think it'd be the least Earth shattering of all the possible deaths they could do in terms of the aftermath.

Mr. Sean
11-25-2010, 08:13 PM
When Johnny dies, they should replace him with an adorable robot.

leafinsectman
11-25-2010, 08:19 PM
They should kill Johnny so kids wouldn't set themselves on fire.

Slewo.O
11-25-2010, 08:22 PM
I'm listening to the 11 O'Clock Comics podcast and they think Johnny is gonna bite the dust, mainly because he's the most expendable. I think Johnny's death would bother me the least but I also think it'd be the least Earth shattering of all the possible deaths they could do in terms of the aftermath.

Think of the women!

Ebonstone
11-25-2010, 08:38 PM
Pun intended?

:bored:

Lord Jermaine Retail
11-25-2010, 08:54 PM
My money was on the Human Torch because while he has left the team, he has never died that I recall. Reed Richards appeared to perish along with Doctor Doom during the late 90s so we got to see the team work without him. We just did a Death of the Invisible Woman story. And with all the kids running around that title I don't think we need to see a "death of parent" storyline. The Thing is in another title with New Avengers HOWEVER I think that may not be a guarantee of anything because I'm pretty sure that there are changes with cover art going on with upcoming New Avengers issues.

The way that the past issues of the Three storyline have gone down have been amazing. Each character is showcasing what makes them not only a key team member but also a valuable person in which case you don't want to lose any of them. The Thing is extremely vulnerable right now. Reed and Sue are both off on extremely volatile solo missions right now. And a threat from the Negative Zone is preparing to reassert itself so "it" could come from anywhere. I personally don't want anything to happen to anyone.

Lord Jermaine Retail
11-25-2010, 08:59 PM
I don't know. Like I said with my edits above, I don't think Hickman is gonna take into account the previous deaths if he didn't think too much of them. Heck, how many times have we seen Galactus? But he's gonna do it because he has a Galactus story in him. If he feels like he has an awesome Reed death story then he's gonna do it no matter who has or hasn't died and how many times they've died.

Although if Hickman wants to come in here and correct me then I'm cool with it :)

Hickman said at the Baltimore Comic-con that he has read every issue of FF and I have no doubt that he has. I mistakenly though that just because Hickman is a new name IN comics that he was new TO comics which is not the case. Test him on his Legion of Super-heroes and you'll see that he knows his comics. Honestly, you can see it in his comics that he knows his characters, especially the latest FF as far as who was there and what locations were used.

leafinsectman
11-25-2010, 09:01 PM
My money was on the Human Torch because while he has left the team, he has never died that I recall. Reed Richards appeared to perish along with Doctor Doom during the late 90s so we got to see the team work without him. We just did a Death of the Invisible Woman story. And with all the kids running around that title I don't think we need to see a "death of parent" storyline. The Thing is in another title with New Avengers HOWEVER I think that may not be a guarantee of anything because I'm pretty sure that there are changes with cover art going on with upcoming New Avengers issues.

The way that the past issues of the Three storyline have gone down have been amazing. Each character is showcasing what makes them not only a key team member but also a valuable person in which case you don't want to lose any of them. The Thing is extremely vulnerable right now. Reed and Sue are both off on extremely volatile solo missions right now. And a threat from the Negative Zone is preparing to reassert itself so "it" could come from anywhere. I personally don't want anything to happen to anyone.

Kitty was on Uncanny or some other book but Joss still 'killed' her. So it could still be Ben Grimm.

Hickman has said in a few interviews that he's not necessarily taking into account all the stuff that's happened in the past. Of course, Johnny could still be the one who gets killed but like I said previously, I don't think Hickman is gonna not kill someone just before they've already died. If he has an awesome Reed/Sue/Ben death story in him then I think he's gonna do it even if those characters have 'died' already.

Not saying you're wrong though on any of the predictions because at this point it could be anyone. Heck, it could even be one of the kids. Then Sue leaves the team or something. Probably won't happen but its all up in the air.

Slewo.O
11-25-2010, 09:06 PM
Hickman said at the Baltimore Comic-con that he has read every issue of FF and I have no doubt that he has. I mistakenly though that just because Hickman is a new name IN comics that he was new TO comics which is not the case. Test him on his Legion of Super-heroes and you'll see that he knows his comics. Honestly, you can see it in his comics that he knows his characters, especially the latest FF as far as who was there and what locations were used.

Hickman knows his FF. I trust him to write the hell out of a death story.

Lord Jermaine Retail
11-25-2010, 11:39 PM
Kitty was on Uncanny or some other book but Joss still 'killed' her. So it could still be Ben Grimm.

Hickman has said in a few interviews that he's not necessarily taking into account all the stuff that's happened in the past. Of course, Johnny could still be the one who gets killed but like I said previously, I don't think Hickman is gonna not kill someone just before they've already died. If he has an awesome Reed/Sue/Ben death story in him then I think he's gonna do it even if those characters have 'died' already.

Not saying you're wrong though on any of the predictions because at this point it could be anyone. Heck, it could even be one of the kids. Then Sue leaves the team or something. Probably won't happen but its all up in the air.

If we learned anything from Justice League Cry for Justice it's that "death of kids" stories generally aren't appreciated. But anything is possible. Future Franklin always dies. :P

Silent G
11-26-2010, 04:52 AM
My moneys on Johnny. He's flown under the radar for too long.

marco19
11-26-2010, 05:46 AM
this is a far fetched idea but with the new captain america movie coming out with chris evans as cap, who was also the the human torch in the sucky fantastic four movies maybe marvel wants to kill jonny storm off to avoid confusion, and arent still a bunch of other human torcheds running around in the invaders books

BriRedfern
11-26-2010, 05:55 AM
this is a far fetched idea but with the new captain america movie coming out with chris evans as cap, who was also the the human torch in the sucky fantastic four movies maybe marvel wants to kill jonny storm off to avoid confusion, and arent still a bunch of other human torcheds running around in the invaders books

I can't really see the Cap movie playing into this...

leafinsectman
12-03-2010, 01:01 AM
I just got around to issue 585. The page where Reed says:

"Take care of things Johnny. I'll be home soon."

Gave me fucking chills. Its gotta be Reed. Go out like a big fucking hero. Plus, holy shit, is Ben gonna have a kid? Or Johnny will have to help raising the kids (more than he's already been doing).


If we learned anything from Justice League Cry for Justice it's that "death of kids" stories generally aren't appreciated. But anything is possible. Future Franklin always dies. :P

Haven't read it but I'm not a fan of kids dying either. Its just gonna be too depressing.

Mister Mets
12-03-2010, 02:40 AM
I'm thinking that it's Reed.

Hickman explicitly said that he doesn't want Reed Richards to overshadow the rest of the team, and Val's been revealed to be possibly smarter than Reed Richards, so there's already a genius level intellect to replace him (one with Johnny Storm's id, which could make things more chaotic, which is always good for establishing dramatic tension.)

leafinsectman
12-03-2010, 02:43 AM
I want it to be Reed because how interesting could killing Johnny be?

mitchymitchymitchy
12-03-2010, 04:28 PM
It's polybagged???

Spidey616
12-03-2010, 07:16 PM
Better make sure to avoid media reports of the issue on the release day a la Captain America #25

Brother Power the Gong
12-03-2010, 08:23 PM
Sue.

vhsiv
01-10-2011, 08:23 AM
Kill Johnny and bring back Frankie Raye (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankie_Raye) to fill his FF spot for a year or so.

Generic Poster
01-10-2011, 08:31 AM
I'm thinking it's Johnny, just because of all the "he's my favorite superhero" comments they had Franklin making earlier.

Generic Poster
01-10-2011, 08:34 AM
I think who ever dies, will in part die because Ben took the serum and wasn't his normal self to save them.

Agreed.

Cth
01-18-2011, 07:45 AM
Relevant quote?



http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=25471

"The Thing guest starred recently in 'New Avengers' because he's got a great history with Luke Cage. I wanted a group of characters that really owed Luke Cage a favor to show up to do him a favor. So, you turn the page and there's the group. It was a sort of a, 'Luke Cage: this is your life' moment, and there is the Thing," Bendis said "Stuart [Immonen] drew this great looking Thing, and I was like, 'He looks great on this team! That's the flavor that this team needs.' Then I said to Tom Brevoort, 'Look at that! Doesn't that look cool?' He goes, 'Yeah, it kind of does, but I don't think Jon ["Fantastic Four" writer Jonathan Hickman] is going to want to share the character though.'

The Thing joins the New Avengers

"So I called Jon up and there are a couple characters I wanted from Jon. One, which I thought he would say no problem to and the other was the Thing. He said okay to the Thing, because that was an easy sell," Bendis continued. "All I had to do was remind him that the entire time "The Fantastic Four" was in its first heyday, Ben Grimm starred in 'Marvel Two-In-One' for 150 issues and it never bothered the book. So that was my pitch to that. He said okay, which I was surprised about. I thought it would be a harder sell, but he said yes...and he said, 'Absolutely no.' to my other one."


Of course, someone last night while discussing Marvel vs. Capcom 3 said a certain member of the FF couldn't be included because they were killed recently.. the character's name was Reed Richards which seemed odd to me because that was a long time ago, and even then, they couldn't have known this far out, so I chalked it up to false info.

leafinsectman
01-21-2011, 04:32 PM
You could be onto something. I'll probably appreciate Hickman's story no matter who ends up biting the dust but I hope its the person in your spoiler tags.

RebootedCorpse
01-21-2011, 04:35 PM
A "none" option was needed.