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RebootedCorpse
11-12-2010, 12:44 PM
From Decision Points, p. 205: "When Karzai arrived in Kabul for his inauguration on December 22 – 102 days after 9/11 – several Northern Alliance leaders and their bodyguards greeted him at an airport. As Karzai walked across the tarmac alone, a stunned Tajik warlord asked where all his men were. Karzai, responded, 'Why, General, you are my men. All of you who are Afghans are my men.'"

From Ahmed Rashid’s The Mess in Afghanistan, quoted in The New York Times Review of Books: “At the airport to receive [Karzai] was the warlord General Mohammad Fahim, a Tajik from the Panjshir Valley …. As the two men shook hands on the tarmac, Fahim looked confused. 'Where are your men?' he asked. Karzai turned to him in his disarmingly gentle manner of speaking. 'Why General,' he replied, “you are my men—all of you are Afghans and are my men...'"

Bush was not at Karzai’s Innauguration.



When Crown Publishing inked a deal with George W. Bush for his memoirs, the publisher knew it wasn't getting Faulkner. But the book, at least, promises "gripping, never-before-heard detail" about the former president's key decisions, offering to bring readers "aboard Air Force One on 9/11, in the hours after America's most devastating attack since Pearl Harbor; at the head of the table in the Situation Room in the moments before launching the war in Iraq," and other undisclosed and weighty locations.

Crown also got a mash-up of worn-out anecdotes from previously published memoirs written by his subordinates, from which Bush lifts quotes word for word, passing them off as his own recollections. He took equal license in lifting from nonfiction books about his presidency or newspaper or magazine articles from the time. Far from shedding light on how the president approached the crucial "decision points" of his presidency, the clip jobs illuminate something shallower and less surprising about Bush's character: He's too lazy to write his own memoir.

Bush, on his book tour, makes much of the fact that he largely wrote the book himself, guffawing that critics who suspected he didn't know how to read are now getting a comeuppance. Not only does Bush know how to read, it turns out, he knows how to Google, too. Or his assistant does. Bush notes in his acknowledgments that "[m]uch of the research for this book was conducted by the brilliant and tireless Peter Rough. Peter spent the past 18 months digging through archives, searching the internet[s], and sifting through reams of paper." Bush also collaborated on the book with his former speechwriter, Christopher Michel.

Many of Bush's literary misdemeanors exemplify pedestrian sloth, but others are higher crimes against the craft of memoir. In one prime instance, Bush relates a poignant meeting between Afghan President Hamid Karzai and a Tajik warlord on Karzai's Inauguration Day. It's the kind of scene that offers a glimpse of a hopeful future for the beleaguered nation. Witnessing such an exchange could color a president's outlook, could explain perhaps Bush's more optimistic outlook and give insight into his future decisions. Except Bush didn't witness it. Because he wasn't at Karzai's inauguration.

His absence doesn't stop Bush from relating this anecdote: "When Karzai arrived in Kabul for his inauguration on December 22 - 102 days after 9/11 - several Northern Alliance leaders and their bodyguards greeted him at an airport. As Karzai walked across the tarmac alone, a stunned Tajik warlord asked where all his men were. Karzai, responded, 'Why, General, you are my men. All of you who are Afghans are my men.'"

That meeting would sound familiar to Ahmed Rashid, author of "The Mess in Afghanistan", who wrote in the New York Review of Books: "At the airport to receive [Karzai] was the warlord General Mohammad Fahim, a Tajik from the Panjshir Valley .... As the two men shook hands on the tarmac, Fahim looked confused. 'Where are your men?' he asked. Karzai turned to him in his disarmingly gentle manner of speaking. 'Why General," he replied, "you are my men--all of you are Afghans and are my men.'"

Bush's lifting of the anecdote, while disappointing on a literary level, does raise the intriguing possibility that Bush actually read Rashid's article. Doubtful. It was excerpted in the Googleable free intro to his NYRB story. (Still, thinking of Bush browsing the NYRB's website almost makes it worthwhile.)

In a separate case of scene fabrication, though, Bush writes of a comment made by his rival John McCain as if it was said to him directly. "The surge gave [McCain] a chance to create distance between us, but he didn't take it. He had been a longtime advocate of more troops in Iraq, and he supported the new strategy wholeheartedly. "I cannot guarantee success," he said, "But I can guarantee failure if we don't adopt this new strategy." A dramatic and untold coming-together of longtime rivals? Well, not so much. It comes straight from a Washington Post story. McCain was talking to reporters, not to Bush.

In most instances of Bush's literary swiping, he was at least present for the scene. But the point of a memoir is that it is the author's version of events. Bush's book is a collection of other people's versions of events. But that's not what Bush promises readers. "Decision Points is based primarily on my recollections. With help from researchers, I have confirmed my account with government documents, personal interviews, news reports, and other sources, some of which remain classified," he offers. Bush, in his memoir, confesses to authorizing waterboarding, which is a war crime, so the lifting of a few passages might seem like a minor infraction. But Bush's laziness undermines the historical value of the memoir. Bush "recollects" - in a more literal sense of the term - quotes by pulling his and others verbatim from other books, calling into question what he genuinely remembers from the time and casting doubt on any conclusions he draws about what his mindset was at the time.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/12/george-bush-book-decision-points_n_782731.html?utm_campaign=111210&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Alert-politics&utm_content=Title&utm_term=Daily+Brief#s180908

Slewo.O
11-12-2010, 12:48 PM
A fraud just like his presidency :lol:

TheTravis!
11-12-2010, 12:49 PM
He also claims to have invented Jeet Kun Do and to have stopped Old Man Withers from running people off of the haunted amusement park.

stevapalooza
11-12-2010, 12:52 PM
I thought I smelled a rat when the book started with "Call me Ishmael." At first I thought it was just one of the revaluations.

Nick Spencer
11-12-2010, 12:52 PM
Where else was he gonna get those complete, comprehensible sentences?

Gregory
11-12-2010, 12:53 PM
There's an argument to be made that you can't copyright facts, only the presentation of them.

Compared to Blair stealing a scene from The Queen as an actual transcript of a conversation that never happened, this is small potatoes.

TheTravis!
11-12-2010, 12:53 PM
I thought I smelled a rat when the book started with "Call me Ishmael."

Then he follows it up with, "Wait. Don't. That solunds like a Jew name! Heheheheheheheheh."

Matthew Brown
11-12-2010, 12:54 PM
He also claims to have invented Jeet Kun Do and to have stopped Old Man Withers from running people off of the haunted amusement park.

Well, that actually happened.

Buk Was Right
11-12-2010, 12:56 PM
The entire chapter about playing second base and trying to calm down Don Wilson in the middle of his no hitter seemed a little fishy...

R0cketFr0g
11-12-2010, 12:56 PM
Then he wrongly executed all of his ghostwriters.

Matthew Brown
11-12-2010, 12:57 PM
A whole chapter is just plot synopses of episodes of That's My Bush and Lil' Bush.

Kedd
11-12-2010, 12:57 PM
Eh.

Generic Poster
11-12-2010, 12:57 PM
Bush should've used this article to discuss his military service in Iraq:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/bush-bravely-leads-3rd-infantry-into-battle,144/

Marcdachamp
11-12-2010, 01:01 PM
Why would you even want to do something like that?

Andreas
11-12-2010, 01:01 PM
I guess A Golf Player's Guide to the Presidency would not have sold that well.

JimboX
11-12-2010, 10:31 PM
A President wouldn't do that!
Oh wait....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vACOtmwckGc&feature=player_embedded

Bedlam66
11-12-2010, 11:36 PM
Eh.
Kedd have I told you yet that your New avatar creeps me the fuck out? Cause it does. ALOT

Taxman
11-12-2010, 11:43 PM
If there are ten people in this country for whom this will change their opinion of Bush, I would be surprised.

Ben Weldon
11-13-2010, 02:54 AM
Being surprised by this would be like being surprised Keebler products aren't made by elves.

TIP
11-13-2010, 04:59 AM
Being surprised by this would be like being surprised Keebler products aren't made by elves.

:shock:

Is it Gnomes? Or...or...Kobolds?

:scared:

bartleby
11-13-2010, 05:35 AM
I think it would be more surprising if George W. Bush wrote a whole book without someone else providing him with some of the words.

TheTravis!
11-13-2010, 08:23 AM
A President wouldn't do that!
Oh wait....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vACOtmwckGc&feature=player_embedded

So that's what you do then? You excuse behavior in the guy you like, but you villify it in the guy you don't? Really? The best you've got is "I know you are but what am I?"

Mattman
11-13-2010, 09:17 AM
So that's what you do then? You excuse behavior in the guy you like, but you villify it in the guy you don't? Really? The best you've got is "I know you are but what am I?"
Are you surprised by this? Look who you're responding to.

Taxman
11-13-2010, 09:58 AM
So that's what you do then? You excuse behavior in the guy you like, but you villify it in the guy you don't? Really? The best you've got is "I know you are but what am I?"

Shocking, isn't it?

Kedd
11-13-2010, 10:29 AM
A President wouldn't do that!
Oh wait....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vACOtmwckGc&feature=player_embedded

Hunh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbR_JxTHTz4&feature=related

None of this matters. It's all a bit pointless. Petty squabbles of a partisan nature. "Republicans do this!" followed by "Democrats do it too!" or vice versa. It's an empty argument no matter who makes it, but it's always emptier when the second person makes it. And worse yet when the second person, in this case Jimbox, never seems to have any substance past "They do it too!" and worse again when the author of the speech says "Eh, who cares. They're just words." Link located on the same page as Jimbox's by the way.

Matthew Brown
11-13-2010, 10:32 AM
Hunh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbR_JxTHTz4&feature=related

None of this matters. It's all a bit pointless. Petty squabbles of a partisan nature. "Republicans do this!" followed by "Democrats do it too!" or vice versa. It's an empty argument no matter who makes it, but it's always emptier when the second person makes it. And worse yet when the second person, in this case Jimbox, never seems to have any substance past "They do it too!" and worse again when the author of the speech says "Eh, who cares. They're just words." Link located on the same page as Jimbox's by the way.

It's appropriate Jimbo's post have so little substance. He's barely a real person.

Kedd
11-13-2010, 10:33 AM
Kedd have I told you yet that your New avatar creeps me the fuck out? Cause it does. ALOT

It's because you feel guilty and he sees into your soul

Kedd
11-13-2010, 10:39 AM
It's appropriate Jimbo's post have so little substance. He's barely a real person.

Whether I agree with the more conservative view points on this board or not, I can at least respect when someone puts forth the effort to explain their stance. I rarely agree with Defferding, for instance, but he will at least try to back up where he's coming from. Ray as well. People like Jimbox...never anything past the shallow end of the pond. Which makes me think one of two things: Either he doesn't really even understand his stance or care enough to research it a bit, which I can't respect. Or he doesn't even believe the stuff at all and is instead trolling. Either or both could be false, of course, but posting trends seem to suggest one or the other.

JimboX
11-13-2010, 12:45 PM
So that's what you do then? You excuse behavior in the guy you like, but you villify it in the guy you don't? Really? The best you've got is "I know you are but what am I?"

Do you really consider what I posted to be a vilification of Obama? Vilify? Really? You need thicker skin.

To be honest with you, I really don't care about either of the two circumstances. And obviously neither do you (or most other posters in this thread). If you did you wouldn't have completely dismissed the video I posted. You just wanted another reason to complain about George Bush. At least be honest about that.

JimboX
11-13-2010, 12:53 PM
Hunh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbR_JxTHTz4&feature=related

None of this matters. It's all a bit pointless. Petty squabbles of a partisan nature. "Republicans do this!" followed by "Democrats do it too!" or vice versa. It's an empty argument no matter who makes it, but it's always emptier when the second person makes it. And worse yet when the second person, in this case Jimbox, never seems to have any substance past "They do it too!" and worse again when the author of the speech says "Eh, who cares. They're just words." Link located on the same page as Jimbox's by the way.

So as long as the original author doesn't mind that you lifted his words, it's not considered plagiarism? I see.

Kedd
11-13-2010, 12:57 PM
So as long as the original author doesn't mind that you lifted his words, it's not considered plagiarism? I see.

There's a larger point to my comment, but it's nice to know that you can parse things down to a level that requires as little thoughtfulness as possible from yourself. Good on you, son.

JimboX
11-13-2010, 01:04 PM
There's a larger point to my comment, but it's nice to know that you can parse things down to a level that requires as little thoughtfulness as possible from yourself. Good on you, son.

Your larger point was the least interesting part of your comment.

Kedd
11-13-2010, 01:10 PM
Your larger point was the least interesting part of your comment.

I shouldn't expect you to feel any other way I suppose. You offer nothing to most discussions of this nature and have, in the past, stated that you don't care to offer anything past the shallow nonsense. I'm in the wrong for at least hoping that you could step up and do something more than be "that guy", and perhaps add a little value to any discussion. I should, instead, recognize that have no value in these discussions and perhaps treat you as a troll like some others. Yeah. That might be the way to go.

JimboX
11-13-2010, 01:39 PM
I shouldn't expect you to feel any other way I suppose. You offer nothing to most discussions of this nature and have, in the past, stated that you don't care to offer anything past the shallow nonsense. I'm in the wrong for at least hoping that you could step up and do something more than be "that guy", and perhaps add a little value to any discussion. I should, instead, recognize that have no value in these discussions and perhaps treat you as a troll like some others. Yeah. That might be the way to go.

Okay, if you want to have a discussion, let's have a discussion. What do you think about George Bush's alleged plagiarism? And how might that compare/contrast with the example of Barack Obama's alleged plagiarism that I linked to?

Kedd
11-13-2010, 01:49 PM
Okay, if you want to have a discussion, let's have a discussion. What do you think about George Bush's alleged plagiarism? And how might that compare/contrast with the example of Barack Obama's alleged plagiarism that I linked to?

My first comment in this thread was a completely apathetic "Eh". There's no percentage in dredging it up past being able to make the tired jokes concerning Bush's mental abilities. It's an old joke with no distance at best and petty at worst. Your link, however, starts at petty, because there's nothing to it beyond "Look he did it too!" Both are pointless. Further, and this isn't to condemn one over the other, but there's a small difference between a person who has speech writers and a person declaring they would write their own memoirs themselves but cribbing from other people to do so. Still, it's a pointless exercise in finger pointing.

Mattman
11-13-2010, 01:50 PM
Okay, if you want to have a discussion, let's have a discussion. What do you think about George Bush's alleged plagiarism? And how might that compare/contrast with the example of Barack Obama's alleged plagiarism that I linked to?
One was a speech. The other is a former president's historical documentation of his years in office.

Ryan F
11-13-2010, 03:56 PM
If there are ten people in this country for whom this will change their opinion of Bush, I would be surprised.

This probably doesn't count as a change of opinion, but it is amazing how the guy keeps finding new lows with me, even after I thought he'd hit the absolute limit.

costello
11-13-2010, 09:14 PM
I would love to read this book to see what impression I'd get. Do these paragraphs lead the reader to believe Bush was in these places, or are they exposition? Is there a work cited page?