Directors Label SPECIAL EDITION: David Fincher

[Adrian B AWESOME]

In honor of The Social Network (but unfortunately, due to its new-ness and because sometimes people make whatever the new thing is their favorite, it'll be left off this particular poll...) I bring you a special edition of the Directors Label poll series.

Not counting any and all of his music video work and, for better or worse, The Social Network, what's your favorite (NOT objectively best but personal, subjective favorite) feature-length David Fincher film?

VOTER'S CHOICE! PLEASE READ!

Considering the massive flop the Kubrick polls have been, I'm opening it up to you guys. Since I think it would be a waste of time to start a new thread (unless it becomes completely necessary), so ahead and throw out some American directors you'd like to see in the Directors Label series. The bigger their body of work, the better. If it could be contemporary like the majority, that would be better, as even though I would love a Billy Wilder, Charlie Chaplin or John Ford poll series, if Kubrick is any evidence, it will be a waste of time. Which is a damn shame. You people need to go watch things from before 1970! :lol: But seriously, I understand. So yeah, open suggestions are great.

Other Directors Label Polls:

Black and White Kubrick: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=198030
Kubrick in Color: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=198088
Head to Head Kubrick: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=198162
70s Spielberg: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=197873
80s Spielberg: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=197936
90s Spielberg: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=197973
00s Spielberg: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=197995
Best of the Best Spielberg: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=198021
70s Woody Allen: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=197515
80s Woody Allen: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=197626
90s Woody Allen: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=197699
00s Woody Allen: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=197805
Best of the Best Woody Allen: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=197856
70s Scorsese: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=197281
80s Scorsese: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=197354
90s Scorsese: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=197464
00s Scorsese: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=197599
Best of the Best Scorsese: http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=197730

[Adrian B AWESOME]

And apparently, for old time sake, I fucked up. Special Edition indeed.

Anyways, this is really tough for me, as I absolutely love Se7en, Fight Club, Zodiac and Button...

[Ryudo]

Hitchcock?
Scott?
Cameron?
Schumacher?

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Hitchcock?
Scott?
Cameron?
Schumacher?

Well, technically, the only American you suggested was Schmacher...

I would love to do Hitchcock, but I have a feeling people have seen Rear Window, Psycho, maybe The Birds and that's it.

[Black Roman]

Love Se7en, but The Curious Case of Benjamin Button is one of my favorite films in recent memory. Loved every second.

[Gregory]

Zodiac Zodiac Zodiac. There's so much information to keep afloat, and they keep it all clear and distinct.

I love Fight Club. I love Seven. But Zodiac is more impressive for what it does and how it does it.

[Taxman]

I remember having a discussion about this recently on the board, and I think the answer I came up with was Zodiac.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Well, I've upgraded to Blu-Ray versions of Se7en, Fight Club and Zodiac, so Button's out...Fight Club is a great, great film but it doesn't stick in my head like Fincher's serial killer work.

...

Se7en is amazing, but at the end of the day, it's a morality play. Zodiac is unlike any other procedural I've ever seen. Zodiac.

[Ryudo]

I voted for Button coz it's my favorite.

Also, you'll make YPJ happy.

[McAfee]

I voted for Se7en with Zodiac a very close 2nd. Perhaps because I've only watched the latter once and in theaters, while I've seen Se7en about 8-10 times. These two may flip-flop one day, but I still think Fincher's best work is ahead of him.

[Cth]

I still need to see Button before Social Network hits.

[Ashwin Pande]

I fell asleep during Zodiac. Both times I tried to watch it.

It's a good movie but man... it is slow going for that first hour.

[Ryan_ZOOM_Turner]

Fight Club followed closely by Se7en because I don't like Kevin Spacey.

[Fourthman]

I still need to see Button before Social Network hits.

You'll like Button.



...get it?

[Ashwin Pande]

I liked Alien 3 a lot. It's not my favorite on this list but I thought it was a very good movie.

[Doug]

Zodiac Zodiac Zodiac. There's so much information to keep afloat, and they keep it all clear and distinct.

I love Fight Club. I love Seven. But Zodiac is more impressive for what it does and how it does it.

Agreed 100%. Zodiac is my favorite for the same reasons.

Might change after seeing Social Network, but Zodiac will be tough to beat.

[Andreas]

I still haven't seen the last two on this list. I like Panic Room (2002) quite a bit and it's one of Jodie Foster's best, but I have to go with Fight Club (1999).

[NeverWanderer]

Se7en has remained my favorite Fincher flick. Flawless execution, stunning visuals, palpable tone. I can watch it over and over again and find something new to love about it each time.

My second favorite should probly be Fight Club, but I think I gravitate towards Alien 3 before that, just for how daring it was with the source material.

[silverboy]

I love every one of them, with the obvious exception of Alien 3, but Fight Club is the best.

My rankings:
Fight Club
Seven
Zodiac
The Game
Benjamin Button
Panic Room
Alien 3

[Xorn]

my favorite director ever:
my rundown:
1. fight club (also my favorite movie ever)
2. se7en
3. zodiac
4. benjamin button
5. panic room

brillant director, would have loved to see his take on torso.

[HoldFastNow]

Really close for me between Se7en, Fight Club, and Zodiac but I went with Fight Club.

My ranking:
1. Fight Club
2. Zodiac
3. Se7en
4. The Game
5. Benjamin button
5. Alien 3
6. Panic Room

[GelfXIII]

The first rule of Fight Club is, don't vote for Se7en.

[Kurt Russell Crowe]

Fight Club. Made me go seek out the book which made me a reader and writer ever since.

[Dan-C]

Tough call, but I went with Zodiac. I think mostly because I had lower expectations for the movie for some reason, but I wound up loving it. But its hard to beat Se7en or Panic Room, or the Game. Even Benjamin Button is pretty damn good. I don't know why but I'm not a huge Fight Club fan. And Alien 3 was a nice try, but not a terrible movie.

[The Hodag]

I'm only the second person to vote for The Game, so clearly I'm messed up in the head. :lol: Thing is, while there may be deeper, more important stories to tell in his other flicks, the poll calls for "favorite" and that's the only Fincher flick I return to on any kind of regular basis. Pushes my buttons. I like the paranoia suspense, the reality/fantasy questions, and the notion of pushing people to wild extremes to jar them into a better life.

Beyond that...

Loved Zodiac. It'd rank next but I've only seen it once.

Really liked Fight Club, but it wasn't a revelation for me like it was for some.

Never cared for the nihilism of Se7en.

Hate Aliens 3.

Ain't seen the others.

[Supreme Convoy]

I love Se7en, it's my favorite Ficher movie.

Love them all actually, can't wait for Social Network.

I even love Alien 3. Oddly enough, it's not a great Alien sequel but it does stand on its own for me.

[Fygar]

Alien 3 - I've never seen it. I might rectify that soon if I find the Alien Blu Ray set for a good deal.

Se7en - Excellent film. The lighting has been copied so many times that it's cliche to do it now. The finale still has an impact on me.

The Game - Never seen it and know very little about it. I need to check it out.

Fight Club - Great film but a little too stylized at times. It's entertaining as hell and highly rewatchable.

Panic Room - Heard nothing but bad things so I never sought it out. I've caught pieces on cable and it seemed dreadful. I need to sit down and watch it in its entirety some day.

Zodiac - A masterpiece. Each murder is like it's own little short film. Everyone acts their ass off in this. I love how the passage of time is conveyed through the construction of a building in one scene through music with a blank screen at a different point. I love this movie so much.

Curious Case of Benjamin Button - Absolutely stunning. It has some of the most gorgeous shots I've ever seen yet somehow it leaves me hollow. I like the film but don't love it. The Forrest Gump comparisons hurt it, but it's more than that. It's missing something but then again I've only seen it one time.

[The Hodag]

The Game - Never seen it and know very little about it. I need to check it out.

I think the less you know, the more you're likely to enjoy it. The one thing I might mention is that in some ways it's a conventional thriller, so don't go into it expecting a game-changer movie like Fight Club or Se7en.

I totally dig it, though.

[THWIP!]

Fight Club because I just love it and I saw it around the time I saw Pulp Fiction for the first time and just blew my mind in what can be done with film.

I've always said that Fight Club is my favorite, but Zodiac is his best film.

[BClayMoore]

Love Fight Club, think the Panic Room is underrated, think Zodiac is a good watch, and I think Se7en is laughably awful.

-BCM

[Taxman]

I think Se7en is laughably awful.Any film with Gwyneth Paltrow dying in it, can't be all bad.

[Garth]

I guess I will choose Seven. It has always been a top-tier film for me. I just watched it again (for probably the 10th time or so) when I got my blu-ray copy, and the nihilism was almost too much for me to handle. Maybe it is cause I am older and more sensitive now, or maybe it is my job, while I loved it, and I still choose it as my favorite of his work--it is fucking relentless, and I am unsure how many more times I will be able to view it.

[Taxman]

the nihilism was almost too much for me to handle. Maybe it is cause I am older and more sensitive now, or maybe it is my job, while I loved it, and I still choose it as my favorite of his work--it is fucking relentless, and I am unsure how many more times I will be able to view it.Are you sure you aren't confusing it with Fight Club? That is the one based on a Chuck Palahniuk novel. 8)

[NeverWanderer]

Maybe it's because it had already built its reputation by the time I got around to it, but Se7en never got under my skin the way it does so many others. I mean, I've had days where I'll watch it twice, and then a third time with a commentary track. The performances, the visuals, the dialogue, and the way the story unwinds have always appealed to me. I never even associated it with any sort of nihilistic view. :) At least, no more than any other dark, almost-horror movies. To me, Fight Club is far more nihilistic.

Clay, I'd be interested in hearing why you found it so awful.

[Garth]

Are you sure you aren't confusing it with Fight Club? That is the one based on a Chuck Palahniuk novel. 8)

I didn't say that one wasn't ;-) I just find Seven to be a much darker vision. There are NO hints of any sort of humor to be found. Like I said, it is relentless. At least in Fight Club, there were darkly humorous parts.


Maybe it's because it had already built its reputation by the time I got around to it, but Se7en never got under my skin the way it does so many others. I mean, I've had days where I'll watch it twice, and then a third time with a commentary track. The performances, the visuals, the dialogue, and the way the story unwinds have always appealed to me. I never even associated it with any sort of nihilistic view. :) At least, no more than any other dark, almost-horror movies. To me, Fight Club is far more nihilistic.

Clay, I'd be interested in hearing why you found it so awful.

I as well want to know about Clay's thoughts. I went into Seven pretty much not knowing anything about it, and viewed it when I was 12 or 13. So that ending was pretty much a gut-kick. And like I said, there was a time when I was younger that I watched it PLENTY (the commentary track with Fincher and Pitt is great as well). But these days, if I tried to watch it three times in a day...wouldn't be a pretty picture.

Also I think the reputation might kill it a bit. Especially with Spacey involved. When I saw it for the first time, I had no clue who Kevin Spacey was, and he played the part to perfection. It was horror, watching this actor unknown to me (a John Doe!!!!) in such control and so brutally exacting, but appearing like an every-man--nothing strange about him from outward appearance. But for people who see this after watching him in American Beauty and Superman Returns--it may not leave such an impact.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Love Fight Club, think the Panic Room is underrated, think Zodiac is a good watch, and I think Se7en is laughably awful.

-BCM

I love ya, dude, but I will fight you on the last point. To the death!

[Adrian B AWESOME]

I'm bumping this so I can internet yell at B. Clay. :lol:

[TIP]

I'm bumping this so I can internet yell at B. Clay. :lol:

:rock:
:lol:

[PeterSparker]

Yeah, I'd like to hear what makes it laughably awful myself.


I'm going with Zodiac.

But Se7en would be a close second. (I mean, sure it's no Hawaiian Dick, but it was still a pretty memorable movie going experience)





(also, I've seen The Social Network, and would probably put it first. Glad I didn't have to decide that now though. :) )

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Yeah, I'd like to hear what makes it laughably awful myself.


I'm going with Zodiac.

But Se7en would be a close second. (I mean, sure it's no Hawaiian Dick, but it was still a pretty memorable movie going experience)





(also, I've seen The Social Network, and would probably put it first. Glad I didn't have to decide that now though. :) )

Well, you know how it is though. Whenever something new and great comes out, people somehow forget the old, and I didn't want that to happen here. In a year The Social Network would be on a poll, I just feel it's too new and too big to put on.

[PeterSparker]

Well, you know how it is though. Whenever something new and great comes out, people somehow forget the old, and I didn't want that to happen here. In a year The Social Network would be on a poll, I just feel it's too new and too big to put on.

No, that's a good call, and I agree. Because my opinion, or anyone's, might change or mellow over time.

But it is a pretty damn good movie...

[Adrian B AWESOME]

No, that's a good call, and I agree. Because my opinion, or anyone's, might change or mellow over time.

But it is a pretty damn good movie...

I'm excited, but us out here in the Midwest don't get early screenings most of the time, you East Coast bragging fucker. :lol: ;)

[PeterSparker]

I'm excited, but us out here in the Midwest don't get early screenings most of the time, you East Coast bragging fucker. :lol: ;)

:) It opened up the NY Film Festival last friday, and I was on the phone and their website at 12:00 noon a couple of saturday's ago when tickets went on sale desperately trying to get a ticket either way. Lucked out on the phone and was told it was sold out two seconds after she processed my order... I usually don't go that crazy, but Fincher ...and the hype, I had to go.

[Mark Mavro (kryptic6)]

FIGHT CLUB was a case of everything aligning perfectly to make a perfect movie. Not only was the director on, every component of that production was on.

[SMACK!]

Well, you know how it is though. Whenever something new and great comes out, people somehow forget the old, and I didn't want that to happen here. In a year The Social Network would be on a poll, I just feel it's too new and too big to put on.
That's how I feel about movies in general. To be truly great, they need time to resonate. I hate when people walk out of the theater proclaiming "greatest movie ever!" before they even hit the parking lot. Fucking let it breathe.

But when I first saw Fight Club, well somethings just cannot be denied. It fucking resonated immediately, like a shotgun blast of fists to the balls.

[Ashwin Pande]

I guess the one I rewatch the most is Fight Club.

[dankiely]

seven wins for me, but Alien 3 directors cut is a great flick. people hate it, but i like it much better than the second one

[SMACK!]

seven wins for me, but Alien 3 directors cut is a great flick. people hate it, but i like it much better than the second one
:mistrust: I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone.

[yeamon]

I liked his vision of Fight Club better than the book.

Fincher frustrates me. I actually liked what he did with Alien 3, the film he gets the most shit about. I thought his choice to put Jodie Foster's pregnant boobies in a tank top in Panic Room was genius. I thought Benjamin Button was a failure from the first shot we see of the main character, and 3 hours is a long time to spend in a theater watching a failure. The love for Zodiac will always remain a mystery to me (and by saying that, I'm not asking for someone to explain anything to me. I "get it"... I just don't like it).

[En Sabah Poo]

Seven hands down. It was the perfect combination of a nearly flawless AKW script and Fincher's brilliant directing, not to mention amazing performances from the entire cast.

Panic Room suffered from Jodie Foster's acting, even Dwight Yoakim and Forrest Whitaker couldn't single handedly save that.

Fight Club was amazing, but depending on the mood I'm in, it comes off as either brilliant or an oozing pretentious glob. Brad Pitt gave a great performance as always, but Norton and what's her name drive me nuts.

Zodiac was alright, and Benjamin Button was terrible.

[PeterSparker]

I'll definitely agree that Button is the one film of his I really didn't like at all.

[yeamon]

I'll definitely agree that Button is the one film of his I really didn't like at all.

I didn't like Button. But The Game really, really pissed me off.

[Your Pal, Carl]

Well, technically, the only American you suggested was Schmacher...

I would love to do Hitchcock, but I have a feeling people have seen Rear Window, Psycho, maybe The Birds and that's it.

Last year I went through Hitchcock's entire library of films (minus one or two I couldn't get a hold of) but most probably haven't done that.

What about Eastwood and Coen? Many have seen a majority of their films.

[BClayMoore]

Maybe it's because it had already built its reputation by the time I got around to it, but Se7en never got under my skin the way it does so many others. I mean, I've had days where I'll watch it twice, and then a third time with a commentary track. The performances, the visuals, the dialogue, and the way the story unwinds have always appealed to me. I never even associated it with any sort of nihilistic view. :) At least, no more than any other dark, almost-horror movies. To me, Fight Club is far more nihilistic.

Clay, I'd be interested in hearing why you found it so awful.

Well, okay...

I'm not usually the guy who picks on something because it's popular, but the popularity of Se7en (the "7" in the title is the first indication that someone's trying to make a *Statement* using genre) puzzles me like few things.

The plot is completely absurd, for starters. The crimes are ridiculous and unbelievable, and fail every logical litmus test. But there's very little sense that the film is aware of that, to my mind.

Every single nook and cranny is filled with this pretentious shadowy grime that seems painted on to add to an atmosphere that makes no logical sense. Again, there's nothing natural about it. It's so clearly a forced effort to stage atmosphere, but it never feels real.

Brad Pitt chews scenery with gusto, using some crazy accent he invented that he didn't need, and doesn't sound like it comes from anyplace at all.

Paltrow is completely two-dimensional, and from the moment she sets foot on the screen she seems to exist only to give Pitt's character an emotional anchor that will predictably be used to drag him down at some point.

Then there's the 45 minute car ride with the box (how could anyone not know what was in the box???), which is so transparently designed to dredge up suspense that it does little more than bore me...Pitt working so hard to wring everything he can out of it...

There's not a moment in the film that feels real to me. It's manipulative filmmaking at its most transparent, and I'm bewildered by its success. My wife and I rarely agree on much, but after watching it for the first time together we both just looked at each other and went, "SERIOUSLY?"

I think Panic Room is a much better film, because it's more honest about what it is. I can excuse all the cheesy scenery chewing and artificial environments because the movie isn't trying to be much more than a fun little damsel in distress flick.

Anyway, yeah. I really can't stand Se7en. but Morgan Freeman is excellent, in a role he's done well roughly fifty-three times.

-BCM

[Ashwin Pande]

How about an Oliver Stone edition?

[Taxman]

Last year I went through Hitchcock's entire library of films (minus one or two I couldn't get a hold of) but most probably haven't done that.What couldn't you get?
How about an Oliver Stone edition?

Not American enough.

[PeterSparker]

I didn't like Button. But The Game really, really pissed me off.

The Game ultimately didn't work, and just fell apart in the third act. It's not a complete disaster to me, he solidified his particular look and style with the movie. It just isn't a very good movie underneath unfortunately. I thought Button though was just a complete miss, and as you said a long one at that.

[Your Pal, Carl]

What couldn't you get?

Not American enough.

At the time Netflix didn't have The Paradine Case, Notorious and Spellbound. But they have them now so I added them to my queue. There's a few pre-1930 movies I haven't seen too.

[Taxman]

At the time Netflix didn't have The Paradise Cane, Notorious and Spellbound. But they have them now so I added them to my queue. There's a few pre-1930 movies I haven't seen too.Notorious is awesome.

[PeterSparker]

Notorious is awesome.

If someone made me pick my favorite movie ever, it's one of the first that would cross my mind for consideration.

[PeterSparker]

Well, okay...

I'm not usually the guy who picks on something because it's popular, but the popularity of Se7en (the "7" in the title is the first indication that someone's trying to make a *Statement* using genre) puzzles me like few things.

The plot is completely absurd, for starters. The crimes are ridiculous and unbelievable, and fail every logical litmus test. But there's very little sense that the film is aware of that, to my mind.

Every single nook and cranny is filled with this pretentious shadowy grime that seems painted on to add to an atmosphere that makes no logical sense. Again, there's nothing natural about it. It's so clearly a forced effort to stage atmosphere, but it never feels real.

Brad Pitt chews scenery with gusto, using some crazy accent he invented that he didn't need, and doesn't sound like it comes from anyplace at all.

Paltrow is completely two-dimensional, and from the moment she sets foot on the screen she seems to exist only to give Pitt's character an emotional anchor that will predictably be used to drag him down at some point.

Then there's the 45 minute car ride with the box (how could anyone not know what was in the box???), which is so transparently designed to dredge up suspense that it does little more than bore me...Pitt working so hard to wring everything he can out of it...

There's not a moment in the film that feels real to me. It's manipulative filmmaking at its most transparent, and I'm bewildered by its success. My wife and I rarely agree on much, but after watching it for the first time together we both just looked at each other and went, "SERIOUSLY?"

I think Panic Room is a much better film, because it's more honest about what it is. I can excuse all the cheesy scenery chewing and artificial environments because the movie isn't trying to be much more than a fun little damsel in distress flick.

Anyway, yeah. I really can't stand Se7en. but Morgan Freeman is excellent, in a role he's done well roughly fifty-three times.

-BCM
Oh and btw, thanks for responding to the couple of us who wondered what your take was.

Honestly though I think your first statement covers a lot of why you consider it to be so awful. Not that you genuinely don't think its that horrible, I'm sure you do. I'm a contrarian on some pretty popular and well regarded films myself, but I'll just say a few of the things you listed as flaws were actually done purposefully. Doesn't mean they work for you, I get that, but it was supposed to look artificial and pretentiously grimey. Pitt and Paltrow were supposed to be two-dimensional characters. They all were. The crimes over the top and unbelievable. It's an anti-morality tale, not a character driven movie. It's about cliches in the genre.

Anyways, it's always interesting to hear people's different opinions in these threads.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Well, okay...

I'm not usually the guy who picks on something because it's popular, but the popularity of Se7en (the "7" in the title is the first indication that someone's trying to make a *Statement* using genre) puzzles me like few things.

The plot is completely absurd, for starters. The crimes are ridiculous and unbelievable, and fail every logical litmus test. But there's very little sense that the film is aware of that, to my mind.

Every single nook and cranny is filled with this pretentious shadowy grime that seems painted on to add to an atmosphere that makes no logical sense. Again, there's nothing natural about it. It's so clearly a forced effort to stage atmosphere, but it never feels real.

Brad Pitt chews scenery with gusto, using some crazy accent he invented that he didn't need, and doesn't sound like it comes from anyplace at all.

Paltrow is completely two-dimensional, and from the moment she sets foot on the screen she seems to exist only to give Pitt's character an emotional anchor that will predictably be used to drag him down at some point.

Then there's the 45 minute car ride with the box (how could anyone not know what was in the box???), which is so transparently designed to dredge up suspense that it does little more than bore me...Pitt working so hard to wring everything he can out of it...

There's not a moment in the film that feels real to me. It's manipulative filmmaking at its most transparent, and I'm bewildered by its success. My wife and I rarely agree on much, but after watching it for the first time together we both just looked at each other and went, "SERIOUSLY?"

I think Panic Room is a much better film, because it's more honest about what it is. I can excuse all the cheesy scenery chewing and artificial environments because the movie isn't trying to be much more than a fun little damsel in distress flick.

Anyway, yeah. I really can't stand Se7en. but Morgan Freeman is excellent, in a role he's done well roughly fifty-three times.

-BCM

I appreciate your long, thought out post, but I completely disagree with it. Heh.

The argument behind the idea of "logic" and "real" in the world of Se7en has no place in the film because the film realizes its status as a morality tale and thus, proceeds to construct its own version of "real."

The world of Se7en is obviously not reality. It's never not raining in Se7en world. It's a nameless urban sprawl that somehow never seems to end until John Doe allows us access back to a form of nature, perverted by technology and progress. It's clearly a back drop for a morality tale and the sort of tribal battle of good versus evil. I can understand if you don't like it, though, because it is a relatively simple film, boiled down, and people sometimes search for too much meaning in it. The visual flair of it is incredible though.

And Somerset's final line "Ernest Hemingway once wrote, "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for." I agree with the second part." is pure noir bliss for me.

So saying what you have to about Se7en, how do you feel about Zodiac, a film that's nothing but "real?"

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Oh and btw, thanks for responding to the couple of us who wondered what your take was.

Honestly though I think your first statement covers a lot of why you consider it to be so awful. Not that you genuinely don't think its that horrible, I'm sure you do. I'm a contrarian on some pretty popular and well regarded films myself, but I'll just say a few of the things you listed as flaws were actually done purposefully. Doesn't mean they work for you, I get that, but it was supposed to look artificial and pretentiously grimey. Pitt and Paltrow were supposed to be two-dimensional characters. They all were. The crimes over the top and unbelievable. It's an anti-morality tale, not a character driven movie. It's about cliches in the genre.

Anyways, it's always interesting to hear people's different opinions in these threads.

Oh, the film is absolutely a morality tale...I just think it's an evolved modern one.

This reminds me that I wrote a paper freshman year of college about Silence of the Lambs, Se7en and gender identity. It's such a ridiculous paper that my instructor absolutely loved. :lol:

[dEnny!]

What was he doing from 2003-2006?

[dEnny!]

Well, okay...

I'm not usually the guy who picks on something because it's popular, but the popularity of Se7en (the "7" in the title is the first indication that someone's trying to make a *Statement* using genre) puzzles me like few things.

The plot is completely absurd, for starters. The crimes are ridiculous and unbelievable, and fail every logical litmus test. But there's very little sense that the film is aware of that, to my mind.

Every single nook and cranny is filled with this pretentious shadowy grime that seems painted on to add to an atmosphere that makes no logical sense. Again, there's nothing natural about it. It's so clearly a forced effort to stage atmosphere, but it never feels real.

Brad Pitt chews scenery with gusto, using some crazy accent he invented that he didn't need, and doesn't sound like it comes from anyplace at all.

Paltrow is completely two-dimensional, and from the moment she sets foot on the screen she seems to exist only to give Pitt's character an emotional anchor that will predictably be used to drag him down at some point.

Then there's the 45 minute car ride with the box (how could anyone not know what was in the box???), which is so transparently designed to dredge up suspense that it does little more than bore me...Pitt working so hard to wring everything he can out of it...

There's not a moment in the film that feels real to me. It's manipulative filmmaking at its most transparent, and I'm bewildered by its success. My wife and I rarely agree on much, but after watching it for the first time together we both just looked at each other and went, "SERIOUSLY?"

I think Panic Room is a much better film, because it's more honest about what it is. I can excuse all the cheesy scenery chewing and artificial environments because the movie isn't trying to be much more than a fun little damsel in distress flick.

Anyway, yeah. I really can't stand Se7en. but Morgan Freeman is excellent, in a role he's done well roughly fifty-three times.

-BCM

For more directors trying to control every aspect of a film's atmosphere see Zach Snyder with 300 and Watchmen and Robert Rodriguez with Frank Miller's Sin City.

[dEnny!]

My favorite Fincher films are by far SE7EN, Fight Club, and The Curious Case of Benjamin Button.

Panic Room was ridiculous; my buddies and I had a great time making fun of this movie during its showing...hilarious!

I haven't seen Zodiac.

[taxi]

Granted, Zodiac and Fight Club are the only Fincher I've seen in the past five years or so but I recall enjoying all his films on some level. I voted for Zodiac, and it might be my favorite movie ever.

My least favorite is probably Fight Club, but I haven't seen Alien 3 or Button.

Also, I'll second the Coens poll recommendation and would suggest Wes Anderson and PT Anderson, unless you feel they don't have a large enough body of work.

[BClayMoore]

I appreciate your long, thought out post, but I completely disagree with it. Heh.

The argument behind the idea of "logic" and "real" in the world of Se7en has no place in the film because the film realizes its status as a morality tale and thus, proceeds to construct its own version of "real."

The world of Se7en is obviously not reality. It's never not raining in Se7en world. It's a nameless urban sprawl that somehow never seems to end until John Doe allows us access back to a form of nature, perverted by technology and progress. It's clearly a back drop for a morality tale and the sort of tribal battle of good versus evil. I can understand if you don't like it, though, because it is a relatively simple film, boiled down, and people sometimes search for too much meaning in it. The visual flair of it is incredible though.

And Somerset's final line "Ernest Hemingway once wrote, "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for." I agree with the second part." is pure noir bliss for me.

So saying what you have to about Se7en, how do you feel about Zodiac, a film that's nothing but "real?"

I've heard this argument before regarding Se7en, and if that was truly the intention behind the film, I think it still fails. I think it's a cop-out to excuse an inability to communicate a sense of reality (reality within the context of the world being depicted on screen) by contending that "since it's a morality tale, the backdrops are supposed to be fake." As if Fincher didn't want to clutter his basic message with a convincing world. If I don't believe in the world (and I never did), the genre trappings fail, and when that happens, the story he's wrapping his moral in falls apart. At that point all I'm left with is muddled communication of the intended message, whatever that is.

In other words, you can tell me why the things I don't enjoy about the film were intended to be there, but that still doesn't make me enjoy the film.

I dunno. I have yet to hear an analysis of the film that makes sense to me.

Zodiac was entertaining and well constructed, if overlong. Looked great.

I'm afraid the Social Network is going to embody everything that drives me crazy about Fincher and Sorkin, rolled into one. I'm trying to approach it with a completely open mind.

-BCM

[BClayMoore]

For more directors trying to control every aspect of a film's atmosphere see Zach Snyder with 300 and Watchmen and Robert Rodriguez with Frank Miller's Sin City.

Yeah, but I believed in the world created in Sin City.

-BCM

[dEnny!]

Yeah, but I believed in the world created in Sin City.

-BCM

The scene with Marv dragging the guy across the road looked ridiculous and took me out of the movie.

I wanted to be sucked more into that world, but too much of it yanked me out.

[dEnny!]

Granted, Zodiac and Fight Club are the only Fincher I've seen in the past five years or so but I recall enjoying all his films on some level. I voted for Zodiac, and it might be my favorite movie ever.

My least favorite is probably Fight Club, but I haven't seen Alien 3 or Button.

Also, I'll second the Coens poll recommendation and would suggest Wes Anderson and PT Anderson, unless you feel they don't have a large enough body of work.

I'm curious as to why you like Zodiac so much?

I felt the movie dragged...

It's amazing how far police work has come. It cracks me up watching people handling evidence so nonchalantly.

And watching these "period pieces" (scary to think the 1960's/1970's constitutes period piece) it's weird looking back to a time when there weren't cell phones keeping everyone constantly connected, or gas stations available every mile or so...