The Official Wrestling Thread has received an E-mail from the General Manager!

[Masculine Todd]

It's incredibly disheartening that hardly any of these guys are over, because a main-event scene comprised of Christian, Swagger, Barrett, Del Rio, Rey and Cody could be great.

[Greenville 90210]

Here's who I would fire tomorrow to make room for new dudes and reshuffling of the talent:

Hornswoggle
JTG
Tyler Reks
Drew McIntyre
Koslov
David Otunga
Jimmy Uso
James Uso
Melina
Michael Tarver
Tamina
Rosa Mendes
Conor O'Brian
Lucky Cannon
Eli Cottonwood

[Greenville 90210]

I hope Swagger turns face. He could be really big if they do it right and commit to it.

[Briomega]

Why break LayCool up? There's nothing else for them to do.

To make me angry and sad. :(

[Foolish Mortal]

They're not even a tag-team, per se. It's an odd turn of events, unless they plan on a prolonged Layla/McCool program, and they haven't the patience for long-term, post-breakup feuds.
They were 'partners' in any event. Vince won't let any grouping last too long now. Just look at the Corre, they're already on their way to breaking up.

[Greenville 90210]

I'll be happy to see the Corrrrre gone.

Maybe we can get Slater and T Reks as a stoner tag team and the South African Weiner to feud with Sin Cara. Wishful thinking?

[Masculine Todd]

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/4886/delrion.jpg

[Masculine Todd]

That pop for Christian after winning the battle royal was encouraging.

[Masculine Todd]

Here's who I would fire tomorrow to make room for new dudes and reshuffling of the talent:

Hornswoggle
JTG
Tyler Reks
Drew McIntyre
Koslov
David Otunga
Jimmy Uso
James Uso
Melina
Michael Tarver
Tamina
Rosa Mendes
Conor O'Brian
Lucky Cannon
Eli Cottonwood

Of those, I'd keep Melina (she's got personality and has that "presence," which is solely lacking in the Divas locker room), Drew (he's cardboard, but capable in the ring and has, at times, shown promise as a character), JTG (he can work and his entrance is over as hell. He should be a strong midcard fixture) and the Usos (both are rather advanced considering their experience and their initial gimmick was pretty cool).

[Masculine Todd]

Between Edge's heartwarming goodbye speech and the battle royal, that was a relatively enjoyable Smackdown. Despite being readily available on Youtube, I still won't watch it weekly until the issue of roster depth is addressed.

[Greenville 90210]

Of those, I'd keep Melina (she's got personality and has that "presence," which is solely lacking in the Divas locker room), Drew (he's cardboard, but capable in the ring and has, at times, shown promise as a character), JTG (he can work and his entrance is over as hell. He should be a strong midcard fixture) and the Usos (both are rather advanced considering their experience and their initial gimmick was pretty cool).

I'd release Melina to fuck with Morrison.

I could make a case for a lot of the people on my list but I would release them before anyone else.

[joeAR]

Kings of Wrestling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7WjjIvg_bA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Adrian B AWESOME]

This made me laugh out loud:

- WWE Superstar The Great Khali will be starring on Disney XD's Pair of Kings show for their season premiere on April 18th. Khali stars as a "rock-smashing, cave-dwelling" character named Atog.

[Gryphon]

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe/Sin_Cara_Embarrasses_Himself_Backstage_Chavo_Guerr ero_Takes_Shot_At_Kurt_Angle.html

Apparently Sin Cara embarrased himself backstage


http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe/Melina_Responds_To_Hateful_People_Val_Venis_Contin ues_Insults.html

More from Melina and Val Venis

[Gryphon]

Watching smackdown on youtube now.

Edge said "last night on RAW" heh.

[joeAR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53hiHAkK6KA

[Foolish Mortal]

How did Mean Gene manage to stay so composed with all that craziness he had to put up with? :lol:

[joeAR]

How did Mean Gene manage to stay so composed with all that craziness he had to put up with? :lol:


I gurantee you they had to do at least ten takes of everything

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Macho Man was, rather, is, a genius. His promos are poetry.

Macho also proved you don't have to win a ton of titles to be one of the all-time greats. Hell, he's considered one of the greatest IC champions ever and he won the belt ONCE. He was 'F (OOPS) champion only TWICE. And yet, I would argue his ring and career legacy is greater than 99% of his peers.

[joeAR]

Macho Man was, rather, is, a genius. His promos are poetry.

Macho also proved you don't have to win a ton of titles to be one of the all-time greats. Hell, he's considered one of the greatest IC champions ever and he won the belt ONCE. He was 'F (OOPS) champion only TWICE. And yet, I would argue his ring and career legacy is greater than 99% of his peers.


All very good points. Savage was and still is one of my favorites

[Foolish Mortal]

Macho Man was, rather, is, a genius. His promos are poetry.

Macho also proved you don't have to win a ton of titles to be one of the all-time greats. Hell, he's considered one of the greatest IC champions ever and he won the belt ONCE. He was 'F (OOPS) champion only TWICE. And yet, I would argue his ring and career legacy is greater than 99% of his peers.
Well they made the belts worth something back then.

[Gryphon]

According to Matt Hardy's recetn videos, Jeff Hardy needs back surgery and is thinking of retiring.

[joeAR]

According to Matt Hardy's recetn videos, Jeff Hardy needs back surgery and is thinking of retiring.


GOOD! The guy should have retired 2 years ago

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Yeah, I'm sure that's what this is: injury. And I'm sure all the prescription pain meds he'll get after the surgery will help him a ton, too!

[Mark4myself]

If you release Melina who are the wrestlers going to pass around backstage?

[Adrian B AWESOME]

- On WWE.com's official video of the post-SmackDown Edge retirement speech, they edited out him thanking Lita, Michael Hayes, Brian Gerwitz and Vince McMahon.

Not too surprising.

[joeAR]

If you release Melina who are the wrestlers going to pass around backstage?


Kelly Kelly. Why else is she still there

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Kelly Kelly. Why else is she still there

Based solely off of Smackdown reaction this past week, people still love her. It's odd.

[Mark4myself]

The Official Wrestling Thread Has Lost Its Edge!

[Mark4myself]

Kelly Kelly. Why else is she still there

Well if I were backstage I'd rather have Kelly Kelly passed my way than Melina ;-)

[Kurt Russell Crowe]

hollaaaaa hollaaa hollaaaaa

[Damian696]

The Official Wrestling Thread Has More Posts Than The MLB, NBA, NFL, And Seinfeld Threads COMBINED.

The longest running episodic thread on the Bendis Board ! :D

[moonspider]

http://youtu.be/M-VO1WZP3wA

great sasuke...bon jovi

[Damian696]

Few wrestlers actually know what to do when placed on commentary. Wade does. This guy should be a permanent fixture in the main-event, and they're fucking it up (surprising no one).

didn't Wade do mcommentary on FCW ? I think he did.

[Gryphon]

didn't Wade do mcommentary on FCW ? I think he did.

He did indeed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8LdUVNL0yM

[joeAR]

The longest running episodic thread on the Bendis Board ! :D


And I believe it's true! This Summer will mark 6 years straight

[Damian696]

And I believe it's true! This Summer will mark 6 years straight

first thread, first post: first post: 05-12-2005, 10:16 PM

[joeAR]

first thread, first post: first post: 05-12-2005, 10:16 PM


Wow, I feel old now. The thread originally started out of the Matt Hardy, Lita, and Edge situation.

[Greenville 90210]

Yikes! What have I been doing with my life?!?

[Benel Germosen]

Yikes! What have I been doing with my life?!?

Threading in the Benbos wrestling thread. I don't think there's a better use of a life than that.

[Kurt Russell Crowe]

The Kings of Wrestling are racking up wins on the other side of the globe in NOAH's global tag league 2011. They might win it!

[joeAR]

The Kings of Wrestling are racking up wins on the other side of the globe in NOAH's global tag league 2011. They might win it!


Awesome. Can't wait to watch it on Youtube. KOW are fantastic.

[Kurt Russell Crowe]

Awesome. Can't wait to watch it on Youtube. KOW are fantastic.

They really might be my favorite team ever. Or at least a close second to E&C

[Gryphon]

Im looking forward to the cage vs del rio feud.

[usagi20]

Wow, I feel old now. The thread originally started out of the Matt Hardy, Lita, and Edge situation.

And now Lita's retired, Edge has just retired this week, and Matt Hardy ought to retire.

[moonspider]

LEX LUGER!!!!!!!!!!



http://youtu.be/-HfEhh1R8qE

[moonspider]

have we beat goldberg's streak yet?

[Roger]

They really might be my favorite team ever. Or at least a close second to E&C

i have their theme song as my ring tone.
:)

[joeAR]

Speaking of Chris Hero, new blog

http://thechrishero.blogspot.com/

[joeAR]

Want to be the Broski of the week? Send a 30 second clip to Zack Ryder explaining why you should be

[Adrian B AWESOME]

-- Hulk Hogan wrote the following on Twitter regarding TNA Lockdown: "TNA LOCKDOWN SET THE NEW STANDARD FOR WHAT A PPV SHOULD BE!!!!!!!!!!"

This made me literally laugh out loud. So keeping a 52 year old the champion over a dudes 35 and 40, respectively, is the new standard? Having a 62 year old man bleed all over everything and still maintain some sort of offense is the new standard? This is Jim Jones (YPJ wept!) territory here.

[Weasel21385]

-- Hulk Hogan wrote the following on Twitter regarding TNA Lockdown: "TNA LOCKDOWN SET THE NEW STANDARD FOR WHAT A PPV SHOULD BE!!!!!!!!!!"

This made me literally laugh out loud. So keeping a 52 year old the champion over a dudes 35 and 40, respectively, is the new standard? Having a 62 year old man bleed all over everything and still maintain some sort of offense is the new standard? This is Jim Jones (YPJ wept!) territory here.

Didn't they have two title matches that went for a combined 9 minutes?

[joeAR]

The Draft is next weeks RAW

[Gryphon]

I wont be watching RAW tonight due to Passover but here is a spoiler from the tapings right now in the UK
A big change to extreme rules
Morrison defeats R Truth for his spot in the triple threat match at extreme rules

[Foolish Mortal]

I wont be watching RAW tonight due to Passover but here is a spoiler from the tapings right now in the UK
A big change to extreme rules
Morrison defeats R Truth for his spot in the triple threat match at extreme rules
:rofl:

[Gregory]

That's gotta be the beginning of a heel turn.

[Gryphon]

thw triple threat match will be a steel cage match

[joeAR]

didn't they have two title matches that went for a combined 9 minutes?


game changer!

[Gryphon]

Raw TV SPOILERS

Jim Ross is on commentary. R-Truth is out first. Lots of booing. John Morrison interrupts and challenges Truth for his spot at Extreme Rules. They also announce the Draft next week on Raw.

(1) John Morrison beat R-Truth to take Truth's Extreme Rules WWE Title match spot. Morrison won via Starship Pain after a decent match.

R-Truth turned on JoMo after the match. Brutal beat down. The angle continued where Truth lit up a cigarette in Morrison's face. Odd.

(2) Dolph Ziggler beat Evan Bourne in a quick match. No post-match. Ziggler has cut his hair short and dyed it dark brown.

They plugged Michael Cole's "knighting ceremony" tonight. Arise Sir Michael Cole. ... An amazing Edge career tribute video aired next.

WWE champion The Miz out next. Three-way at the PPV is now a cage match. (Editor's Note: more cage matches?) Sin Cara then interrupted Miz and stared him down before John Cena came out. The GM buzzed in and booked John Cena & Sin Cara vs. The Miz & Alex Riley in a tag match. (Editor's Note: They booked this on the U.K. house shows prior to the Raw TV taping for a warm-up.)

(3) John Cena & Sin Cara beat WWE champion The Miz & Alex Riley. Sin Cara is still shaky hitting spots, but the crowd didn't care. Sin Cara was super over and Cena was booed heavily. Sin Cara pinned Alex Riley with a springboard lionsault.

They plugged Orton vs. Punk tonight. ... A new Awesome Kong vignette aired.

(4) Eve beat Nikki Bella (w/Divas champion Brie Bella).

Michael Cole's Knighting Ceremony is now. Cole demand Lawler and Ross kiss his feet. Swagger forced JR to do so. It was basically just a Kiss My Foot segment.

(5) Sheamus beat Santino. Nice continuation from the Tea Party segment last year, but a total squash.

Orton-Punk is the main event this week.

(6) Randy Orton beat C.M. Punk in a WrestleMania 27 re-match. Dueling "Randy Orton, C.M. Punk" chants. Also "RKO, GTS," which sounded new. Orton beat Punk with a schoolboy in around 15 minutes. Good match.

Nexus beat down Orton post-match. Tension in the ranks with Mason Ryan and Punk. Punk eats an RKO. And that's all for Raw.

End of the taping.



Full RAW spoilers

[Benel Germosen]

Raw TV SPOILERS

Jim Ross is on commentary. R-Truth is out first. Lots of booing. John Morrison interrupts and challenges Truth for his spot at Extreme Rules. They also announce the Draft next week on Raw.

(1) John Morrison beat R-Truth to take Truth's Extreme Rules WWE Title match spot. Morrison won via Starship Pain after a decent match.

R-Truth turned on JoMo after the match. Brutal beat down. The angle continued where Truth lit up a cigarette in Morrison's face. Odd.

(2) Dolph Ziggler beat Evan Bourne in a quick match. No post-match. Ziggler has cut his hair short and dyed it dark brown.

They plugged Michael Cole's "knighting ceremony" tonight. Arise Sir Michael Cole. ... An amazing Edge career tribute video aired next.

WWE champion The Miz out next. Three-way at the PPV is now a cage match. (Editor's Note: more cage matches?) Sin Cara then interrupted Miz and stared him down before John Cena came out. The GM buzzed in and booked John Cena & Sin Cara vs. The Miz & Alex Riley in a tag match. (Editor's Note: They booked this on the U.K. house shows prior to the Raw TV taping for a warm-up.)

(3) John Cena & Sin Cara beat WWE champion The Miz & Alex Riley. Sin Cara is still shaky hitting spots, but the crowd didn't care. Sin Cara was super over and Cena was booed heavily. Sin Cara pinned Alex Riley with a springboard lionsault.

They plugged Orton vs. Punk tonight. ... A new Awesome Kong vignette aired.

(4) Eve beat Nikki Bella (w/Divas champion Brie Bella).

Michael Cole's Knighting Ceremony is now. Cole demand Lawler and Ross kiss his feet. Swagger forced JR to do so. It was basically just a Kiss My Foot segment.

(5) Sheamus beat Santino. Nice continuation from the Tea Party segment last year, but a total squash.

Orton-Punk is the main event this week.

(6) Randy Orton beat C.M. Punk in a WrestleMania 27 re-match. Dueling "Randy Orton, C.M. Punk" chants. Also "RKO, GTS," which sounded new. Orton beat Punk with a schoolboy in around 15 minutes. Good match.

Nexus beat down Orton post-match. Tension in the ranks with Mason Ryan and Punk. Punk eats an RKO. And that's all for Raw.

End of the taping.



Full RAW spoilers

That sounds like a good show actually.

[Gryphon]

I am upset that I will be missing it.

[Mark4myself]

I wont be watching RAW tonight due to Passover but here is a spoiler from the tapings right now in the UK
A big change to extreme rules
Morrison defeats R Truth for his spot in the triple threat match at extreme rules

Thank GOD!!!! I wonder if they'd received some backlash from fans and opted to change it due to that or if this was the original plan. Seems screwy if it was.

And poor JR he deserves better than that.

[Mark4myself]

I am upset that I will be missing it.

DVR it or catch it later on youtube ;-)

[Kirblar]

The heel turn indicates this was probably always the plan. Smart way to elevate R-Truth.

[Gryphon]

DVR it or catch it later on youtube ;-)

Oh I will catch it on youtube ( thats how I watch smackdown) but I like seeing it on the tv better.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Oh so the black man has to be the bad guy, huh?

[Mark4myself]

Oh so the black man has to be the bad guy, huh?

Of COURSE!!! Next week he'll be stealing hubcaps! This is ENTERTAINMENT!!!!

Don't understand the cigarette bit though.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Of COURSE!!! Next week he'll be stealing hubcaps! This is ENTERTAINMENT!!!!

Don't understand the cigarette bit though.

Burning someone with a cigarette is a pretty vile thing to do, especially to that poor cigarette. He only delivers carcinogens, not burns!

[Roger]

fyi

best buy has a bunch of 3 diskers for 12.99

check it out!!!

[Mark4myself]

fyi

best buy has a bunch of 3 diskers for 12.99

check it out!!!

Link??? I want to find out if its worth the 2 1/2 hour drive!!!

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Link??? I want to find out if its worth the 2 1/2 hour drive!!!

Jericho is $12.99. That alone should get an order.

[Gryphon]

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe/Awesome_Kong_s_WWE_Name_Revealed_Edge_On_SmackDown .html
Kong's WWE name will likely be Kharma

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe/Wrestler_Likely_Released_From_WWE_WWE_s_Latest_Pan ic_Move_More.html
Jackson Andrews might have been released.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Full list from bestbuy.com

WWE: Raw - The Best of 2010
WWE: The Best of Raw - 15th Anniversary
WWE: Smackdown - The Best of 2010
WWE: The Best of Smackdown - 10th Anniversary 1999-2009
WWE: The True Story of WrestleMania
WWE: Big Show - A Giant's World
WWE: The John Cena Experience
WWE: The Top 50 Superstars of All Time
WWE: Bobby "The Brain" Heenan
WWE: Breaking the Code - Behind the Walls of Chris Jericho
WWE: Wrestlemania XXVI
WWE: Satan's Prison: The Anthology of the Elimination Chamber
WWE: The Undertaker's Deadliest Matches
WWE: Wrestling's Highest Flyers
WWE: Shawn Michaels - My Journey
WWE: The Rise & Fall of WCW

[Adrian B AWESOME]

I like it. Kharma's a bitch.

[Lab-Rat]

I like it. Kharma's a bitch.

I like it.

[michealdark]

I'd rather listen to the Dalai Lama do the commentary (in Tibetan) than listen to anymore Michael Cole.

[joeAR]

Chikara's King of Trios from this past weekend is already available for purchase!

http://www.smartmarkvideo.com/Chikara-Pro-Wrestling/

[Steve Marshall]

Ahem...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeTRePr3Ci8

[joeAR]

Ahem...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeTRePr3Ci8


That's....that's....wow....that's a thing of beauty.

[The Human Target]

Hahahaha awesome.

[Greyone]

Wwe Draft thoughts.

Raw gets:
Swagger.
Taker.
Ms. Taker.
Phoenix.
Chavo.

Smackdown gets:
Bourne.
BDB.
Henry.
Sheamus.
Ted.

And as usual a bunch of lower card guys get swapped around.

[iGotKittyPryde]

Wwe Draft thoughts.

Raw gets:
Swagger.
Taker.
Ms. Taker.
Phoenix.
Chavo.

Smackdown gets:
Bourne.
BDB.
Henry.
Sheamus.
Ted.

And as usual a bunch of lower card guys get swapped around.

Would be odd for them to do what is basically an emergency draft to get someone in Edge's slot and only moving Sheamus as a big guy and taking away a few people.

I'm thinking:

SD gets:
Orton
Sin Cara
Daniel Bryan
Evan Bourne
Ted DiBiase

Raw gets:

Undertaker
Mysterio
Jack Swagger
Michelle
One of the Corre - maybe Zeke, probably one of the tag champs, almost certainly not Wade.

Then there is the off chance they'll move Cena. Or that they'll move Miz to Smackdown and Alberto to Raw and tease that Smackdown will leave with both belts after Extreme Rules. I think they're gonna be in the mood to do something to shake things up.

[Masculine Todd]

If Orton/Punk was, in fact, a blowoff, I suspect a newly-minted babyface Punk is transferred to Smackdown. The turn happens after Mason Ryan usurps the role of Nexus General immediately following the announcement that Punk's moving brands. Though it isn't beyond the realm of possibility, Orton's easily the second guy in the company, and Smackdown's priority-level has been increasingly lowered over the last few years. I imagine trading Randy for Undertaker would mitigate the loss, but 'Taker's not due back for quite some time.

Considering how emaciated the roster is, I'm of the impression that Morrison finally transcends the midcard this year. They could conceivably move him over to Smackdown without sacrificing an Orton or Cena. There's much less pressure in putting over a guy on Smackdown and they wouldn't feel the need to job out their higher profile heels to get him over (they're much more willing to sacrifice Drew and Cody to Morrison than, say, Miz and Punk).

None of this bodes well for Christian. It's pretty apparent that they haven't the confidence to make him a prolonged title contender.

[Kirblar]

Christian'll be fine. I suspect he may be getting the belt due to Miz probably going over in the other match. It's also a case where the right thing to do on paper (finally put Del Rio over) may not make sense in the context of a ladder match.

[Gregory]

I almost went Todd over Dolph's new look. Simple and effective.

[joeAR]

Joey Styles just tweeted that Randy Orton vs. CM Punk in a Last Man Standing match has been added to the Extreme Rules PPV.

[Prime]

My brother and his pal ( and his kids) are away down to London today to watch the Smackdown tapings at the O2 arena from a private corporate box.

he doesn't even watch this stuff, and I never got an invite. :(

[Foolish Mortal]

Joey Styles just tweeted that Randy Orton vs. CM Punk in a Last Man Standing match has been added to the Extreme Rules PPV.
Punk and Orton again?

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Eh, last year's Extreme Rules PPV had 4 rematches from WM (and 3 of the 4 were reverse decisions) so we'll see what happens.

[Benel Germosen]

Eh, last year's Extreme Rules PPV had 4 rematches from WM (and 3 of the 4 were reverse decisions) so we'll see what happens.

So ExR is basically Backlash?

[SteveFlack]

It's hard to book the PPV the month after Wrestlemania. I mean, you spent all that time building up the 'Mania feuds, and then you can't really drop it the next day and build towards all new feuds for a PPV a few weeks later.

Oh, and the new Dolph Ziggler? Bland as all hell.

[Gregory]

So ExR is basically Backlash?

Yes, with props. And I'm fine with that. I'm glad they, mostly, save the gimmick matches for PPVs.

[joeAR]

Oh, and the new Dolph Ziggler? Bland as all hell.


On Twitter he said he was going for Archer. I would love if that became his new character

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Oh my God that would be awesome.

[Benel Germosen]

Oh my God that would be awesome.

That would be so great.

[Kirblar]

On Twitter he said he was going for Archer. I would love if that became his new character
That would be brilliant.

Here's the thing about the blonde hair: it looked like absolute shit. The new look's an improvement simply because the older one was so bad. But now he's going to actually show some personality, which has been a massive problem for him. I have no idea who "Dolph Ziggler" is as a character. He needs to figure this out now, because he's got a limited amount of time to rebrand himself before the plug's pulled.

[Gregory]

That would be brilliant.

Here's the thing about the blonde hair: it looked like absolute shit. The new look's an improvement simply because the older one was so bad. But now he's going to actually show some personality, which has been a massive problem for him. I have no idea who "Dolph Ziggler" is as a character. He needs to figure this out now, because he's got a limited amount of time to rebrand himself before the plug's pulled.

Dolph is an arrogant mat-based strategist with Jericho's reversal ability. The only thing hurting the gimmick is the name. The belly-to-back exploder, the sweat-fling elbow, the Famouser, the Zig Zag, the sleeper -- he's fun to watch.

[SteveFlack]

That would be brilliant.

Here's the thing about the blonde hair: it looked like absolute shit. The new look's an improvement simply because the older one was so bad. But now he's going to actually show some personality, which has been a massive problem for him. I have no idea who "Dolph Ziggler" is as a character. He needs to figure this out now, because he's got a limited amount of time to rebrand himself before the plug's pulled.

The blonde hair at least looked different. Short brown hair? Evan Bourne, Cody Rhodes, Ted Dibiase. And that's just off the top of my head.

[Greenville 90210]

Dolph is an arrogant mat-based strategist with Jericho's reversal ability. The only thing hurting the gimmick is the name. The belly-to-black exploder, the sweat-fling elbow, the Famouser, the Zig Zag, the sleeper -- he's fun to watch.

Bingo. Dumb name.

[Greenville 90210]

The blonde hair at least looked different. Short brown hair? Evan Bourne, Cody Rhodes, Ted Dibiase. And that's just off the top of my head.

Yeah, he's going to have to work even harder now. He looks like so many other guys now.

[Gregory]

Dolph could have used Cody's disfigured gimmick, but I don't think he has the chops to pull it off. Cody, however, has been able to use that promo-heavy gimmick and maintain interesting ringwork.

I think SD missed a golden opportunity to align Cody, Dolph, and Drew.

[SteveFlack]

Yeah, he's going to have to work even harder now. He looks like so many other guys now.

I wish the new Dolph Ziggler well in his future endeavors.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Yeah, because that stringy, gross blonde hair made him look GREAT.

[SteveFlack]

Yeah, because that stringy, gross blonde hair made him look GREAT.

Hey, it worked for Hulk Hogan.

[Gregory]

Yeah, because that stringy, gross blonde hair made him look GREAT.

It made him smarmy, an instant heel qualifier. But that tone has run its course. This is a small change that nevertheless provides a chance to do something with him, maybe acknowledge his (short) reign as world champ.

But he's GOTTA get away from Vickie. He doesn't need that gimmick, and she can elevate someone lower on the card.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

It made him smarmy, an instant heel qualifier. But that tone has run its course. This is a small change that nevertheless provides a chance to do something with him, maybe acknowledge his (short) reign as world champ.

But he's GOTTA get away from Vickie. He doesn't need that gimmick, and she can elevate someone lower on the card.

I can see Ziggler pulling off an face turn if he does do the Archer thing: loveable asshole.

[Kirblar]

The blonde hair at least looked different. Short brown hair? Evan Bourne, Cody Rhodes, Ted Dibiase. And that's just off the top of my head.
Most guys now have short hair. Looking different is bad if it makes you look like a goof, which the blonde hair did.

Bourne and Rhodes don't look generic. A look is more than a haircut. It's 2011. Most guys have short hair. The Ted problem is that you have to show a personality and differentiate yourself from the pack.

I totally don't understand this thing about the haircut- maybe it's because I started watching in '99-'00. Long hair looks fucking stupid on a lot of guys. When Christian cut his hair it was desperately needed because it looked awful, and that's the same situation Dolph was in. Dolph has NOT gotten over yet. He's got a clock ticking before they pull the plug on him. They've given him Vicky, but it's still not working. He needs to figure something out quick. (Also, he needs to stop putting his fingers in his hair now that he doesn't have the grease pit up top :lol:) This is the time where he needs to pull a Jericho. Change how he dresses. Change his mannerisms. If he doesn't, he's done.

[Gregory]

I totally don't understand this thing about the haircut- maybe it's because I started watching in '99-'00. Long hair looks fucking stupid on a lot of guys. When Christian cut his hair it was desperately needed because it looked awful, and that's the same situation Dolph was in.

I was thinking last night during that ad-break pre-match image of Orton vs. Punk. Punk looks like the good guy. He's smiling. He's got his hands up, ready to go. Orton's playing the too-cool quiet loner, but he looks like a natural douche heel.

[Kirblar]

I was thinking last night during that ad-break pre-match image of Orton vs. Punk. Punk looks like the good guy. He's smiling. He's got his hands up, ready to go. Orton's playing the too-cool quiet loner, but he looks like a natural douche heel.
Orton looks like a bad boy. Punk's greased up hair makes him look like a creep.

[michealdark]

You wanna know why the haircut is so bad, Kirblar? Because when I tuned in I actually thought it was DH Smith that's how different Dolph looked

[Benel Germosen]

Orton looks like a bad boy. Punk's greased up hair makes him look like a creep.

I consider Punk's hair to be fascistic and Orton's haircut to be sociopathic.

[Kirblar]

You wanna know why the haircut is so bad, Kirblar? Because when I tuned in I actually thought it was DH Smith that's how different Dolph looked
The lack of pudge didn't give it away?

[Kirblar]

I consider Punk's hair to be fascistic and Orton's haircut to be sociopathic.
Shaved your head isn't a sociopathic thing. :lol:

[Benel Germosen]

Shaved your head isn't a sociopathic thing. :lol:

It makes him look like a serial rapist.

[michealdark]

The lack of pudge didn't give it away?

Not at first. And that's bad. When I have to look at your valet or the initials on your trunks to figure out who you are, that's just a bad look

[usagi20]

"Fatigue makes cowards of us all." -- Paul "Big Show" Wight on last night's Tough Enough

[Mark4myself]

I liked the new 'do on Ziggler. Anything that stops him from running his fingers through his hair and spraying sweat & hair care product around. The old hairdo was horrible and while it does seem similar to others the problem is not the hair, its the lack of a differentiating presence. Once he's able to create a persona he'll be fine. His skills are great and I have faith he can rise to the challenge.

[michealdark]

Yeah, I've always found Dolph to be talented. That seems to be a problem with WWE right now though: dones of new talent and no understanding of how to utilize them

[Adrian B AWESOME]

- TMZ reports today that Patrick Reynolds, Executive Director of TobaccoFree.org, is upset with R-Truth's smoking angle on RAW last night and is demanding an apology from the RAW Superstar.

He told TMZ: "For him to smoke in front of [children] is irresponsible. At best, it's thoughtless, and at worst, if he calculated appealing to kids by posing as a bad-boy outlaw, it's evil. If he wants help in quitting, I'll be happy to be his personal coach."

WWE responded with the following statement to TMZ:

"The negative effect smoking has on one’s health and physical performance was a part of a storyline on last night’s Monday Night Raw. Negative depictions of tobacco use on television are not unusual and can be seen on other TV-PG shows."



Wow, seriously? Did this Reynolds guy get that they weren't glamorizing the thing at all? It feels like this guy saw a way to make himself a news story and, of course, people fell for it. This is one of the few times when the 'E, while doing something stupid, didn't do it for the wrong reasons.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

And apparently there's Cena moving to SD rumors. I think it's smart. With all the hate and vitrol he's getting now, move him to SD. Less exposure can only be a good thing and if anything, it could raise ratings for the program. I mean, what else are kids doing on Friday nights? And it's not like when the Rock shows up to Raw that Cena WON'T be there or anything like that...

[Gregory]

And apparently there's Cena moving to SD rumors. I think it's smart. With all the hate and vitrol he's getting now, move him to SD. Less exposure can only be a good thing and if anything, it could raise ratings for the program. I mean, what else are kids doing on Friday nights? And it's not like when the Rock shows up to Raw that Cena WON'T be there or anything like that...

Unless they move Rey too, that puts the most kid-friendly stars on one show. What are the chances RAW could become the mature show and SD become the kid show?

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Unless they move Rey too, that puts the most kid-friendly stars on one show. What are the chances RAW could become the mature show and SD become the kid show?

Well, the rumors also put Mysterio on Raw so he's there with Sin Cara...I'm not just not sure. I like the idea that you make Smack Down the more family oriented show. Problem is the 'E considers making a more "mature" show a show that's full of calling dudes gay, showing off tits, swearing and blading. There must be a way to, you know, tell grown-up stories without resorting to juvenile bullshit. But I doubt they ever will.

[michealdark]

- TMZ reports today that Patrick Reynolds, Executive Director of TobaccoFree.org, is upset with R-Truth's smoking angle on RAW last night and is demanding an apology from the RAW Superstar.

He told TMZ: "For him to smoke in front of [children] is irresponsible. At best, it's thoughtless, and at worst, if he calculated appealing to kids by posing as a bad-boy outlaw, it's evil. If he wants help in quitting, I'll be happy to be his personal coach."

WWE responded with the following statement to TMZ:

"The negative effect smoking has on one’s health and physical performance was a part of a storyline on last night’s Monday Night Raw. Negative depictions of tobacco use on television are not unusual and can be seen on other TV-PG shows."



Wow, seriously? Did this Reynolds guy get that they weren't glamorizing the thing at all? It feels like this guy saw a way to make himself a news story and, of course, people fell for it. This is one of the few times when the 'E, while doing something stupid, didn't do it for the wrong reasons.

I think he's one of those kinds of people that probably thinks death metal should be banned because it "incites kids to violence"

[michealdark]

Well, the rumors also put Mysterio on Raw so he's there with Sin Cara...I'm not just not sure. I like the idea that you make Smack Down the more family oriented show. Problem is the 'E considers making a more "mature" show a show that's full of calling dudes gay, showing off tits, swearing and blading. There must be a way to, you know, tell grown-up stories without resorting to juvenile bullshit. But I doubt they ever will.

WWE imitates the Big 2?

[Damian696]

I like it. Kharma's a bitch.

the first thing that popped in my mind was "the lovechild of Kama and Kamala" :twisted:

[Damian696]

Not at first. And that's bad. When I have to look at your valet or the initials on your trunks to figure out who you are, that's just a bad look

I agree. his smile worked good with nthe blond hair, and he could turn to serious with no problem. now, not so much. and he looks so different now they could do the "I'm Dolph Ziggler" thing all over again.

[SteveFlack]

I agree. his smile worked good with nthe blond hair, and he could turn to serious with no problem. now, not so much. and he looks so different now they could do the "I'm Dolph Ziggler" thing all over again.

This is just like when Jennifer Grey got her nosejob. Sure, she became more traditionally good looking, but in the end, lost the the look that set her apart from the crowd. And became just another pretty actress.

Dolph Ziggler, the Jennifer Grey of the WWE.

[Damian696]

- TMZ reports today that Patrick Reynolds, Executive Director of TobaccoFree.org, is upset with R-Truth's smoking angle on RAW last night and is demanding an apology from the RAW Superstar.

He told TMZ: "For him to smoke in front of [children] is irresponsible. At best, it's thoughtless, and at worst, if he calculated appealing to kids by posing as a bad-boy outlaw, it's evil. If he wants help in quitting, I'll be happy to be his personal coach."

WWE responded with the following statement to TMZ:

"The negative effect smoking has on one’s health and physical performance was a part of a storyline on last night’s Monday Night Raw. Negative depictions of tobacco use on television are not unusual and can be seen on other TV-PG shows."



Wow, seriously? Did this Reynolds guy get that they weren't glamorizing the thing at all? It feels like this guy saw a way to make himself a news story and, of course, people fell for it. This is one of the few times when the 'E, while doing something stupid, didn't do it for the wrong reasons.

see WWE, that's where PG's getting you. first GLAAD, then this - next week, PETA'll bug in about Morrisons's boots and coat.

and Vince will say "see how we get the attention of the mainstream now." :D

[Prime]

Now they're uploading photos just to taunt me.

The faces have been removed to protect the innocent...

http://i.imgur.com/Gwj9O.jpg

[michealdark]

This is just like when Jennifer Grey got her nosejob. Sure, she became more traditionally good looking, but in the end, lost the the look that set her apart from the crowd. And became just another pretty actress.

Dolph Ziggler, the Jennifer Grey of the WWE.

LOL, never thought of it that way!

[Adrian B AWESOME]

the first thing that popped in my mind was "the lovechild of Kama and Kamala" :twisted:

:lol: Nice.

[SteveFlack]

WWE ordered O2 Arena security to confiscate all signs from fans relating to Zack Ryder at yesterday's Monday Night Raw taping at in London, England.

The Raw Superstar has been encouraging fans to bring Ryder related signs to WWE events, such as "Broski of the Week." He often goes on Twitter acknowledging Ryder signs shown on television. He asked for an image of the "Zack Ryder = Ratings" sign that briefly appeared on Raw. That too was confiscated.

Ryder was backstage at last night's show, but was not used.


Woo, woo, you're fired.

[Greenville 90210]

I was thinking of live tweeting RAW last night but I figured why live tweet a taped show. Any of you dudes on twitter? Would it just be annoying?

[Greenville 90210]

How dare that guy try and get over on his own! You're supposed to sit back and wait for your spot, right? Isn't that what all the cranky old timers that won't go away say?

[Greenville 90210]

What will Zack Ryder's name be in TNA?

[SteveFlack]

What will Zack Ryder's name be in TNA?

Robbie E.

[Kirblar]

Woo, woo, you're fired.
Yup. :(

[Greenville 90210]

Robbie E.

Sometimes I love you. Sometimes I hate you. Today I love you.

[SteveFlack]

Sometimes I love you. Sometimes I hate you. Today I love you.

People hate me?

[Drew]

I was thinking of live tweeting RAW last night but I figured why live tweet a taped show. Any of you dudes on twitter? Would it just be annoying?

Would and it wouldn't. It's a pick your spots sort of thing.

[The Human Target]

People hate me?

I think its more a mild loathing. :)

Poor Zach Ryder.

Proof that WWE doesn't know shit about wrestling anymore.

[Kirblar]

People hate me?
They might get annoyed when you try to do things like say, tell a gay guy what is and isn't homophobic. :lol:

[Greenville 90210]

Would and it wouldn't. It's a pick your spots sort of thing.

I wouldn't get too crazy with it...unless I got really drunk.

[iGotKittyPryde]

Proof that WWE doesn't know shit about wrestling anymore.

Well, all the more reason for them to have gotten out of that terrible wrestling business, then, I suppose.

[joeAR]

Woo, woo, you're fired.


Im speechless. Seriously speechless

[joeAR]

What will Zack Ryder's name be in TNA?


I like to believe that Ryder's smart enough not to go to TNA but I could be wrong.

[Daniel K.]

Woo, woo, you're fired.

Ugh. That is so ridiculous. Aren't they always talking shit about how young guys don't get themselves over? Guess what? He's getting himself over!

[Masculine Todd]

I just can't fathom why they'd admonish Ryder and discourage signs, especially considering how many lectures Hunter has given about "getting yourself over." Well, a guy's getting some notoriety beyond the conventional channels of content dissemination and they're punishing him for being resourceful?

I mean, I can't comprehend why getting over's frowned upon. Their conservative stance toward who they give shots/pushes to, though kinda insane, is understandable, but deliberately impeding someone's ability to get themselves over, without using an abundance of television time no less, should be praised.

[Kurt Russell Crowe]

I wonder if he's specifically being fired for getting himself over, and if he would have just slipped through the cracks for a few more years if he hadn't made a few ripples.

[Benel Germosen]

I just can't fathom why they'd admonish Ryder and discourage signs, especially considering how many lectures Hunter has given about "getting yourself over." Well, a guy's getting some notoriety beyond the conventional channels of content dissemination and they're punishing him for being resourceful?

I mean, I can't comprehend why getting over's frowned upon. Their conservative stance toward who they give shots/pushes to, though kinda insane, is understandable, but deliberately impeding someone's ability to get themselves over, without using an abundance of television time no less, should be praised.

It's not about getting yourself over, it seems. It's about them getting you over and you making it work somehow so that whatever dumb shit they make you do that you're capable of pulling it off. The 'E doesn't actually like characters. Because characters are their own thing. The 'E likes brands, which are malleable and capable to be shape by fiat.

[Daniel K.]

Dave Lagana has a short article up about the Zack Ryder situation here (http://iwantwrestling.com/2011/04/19/zack-ryder-ratings-sign-confiscated-iwantzackryder/).

The gist of it is he's probably being punished for connecting with people through the internet and not through the WWE's usual ways. Which is stupid. Incredibly stupid.

[Kirblar]

Dave Lagana has a short article up about the Zack Ryder situation here (http://iwantwrestling.com/2011/04/19/zack-ryder-ratings-sign-confiscated-iwantzackryder/).

The gist of it is he's probably being punished for connecting with people through the internet and not through the WWE's usual ways. Which is stupid. Incredibly stupid.
WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE ATTEMPTING TO DO WITH TWITTER/FACEBOOK AT WRESTLEMANIA!

So fucking stupid.

[SteveFlack]

WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE ATTEMPTING TO DO WITH TWITTER/FACEBOOK AT WRESTLEMANIA!

So fucking stupid.

It's not that they don't want to get over with social media, they want to do it on their own terms. Zach Ryder isn't playing by their rules.

[Kirblar]

It's not that they don't want to get over with social media, they want to do it on their own terms. Zach Ryder isn't playing by their rules.
They also thought Snooki would make a great babyface, because they're completely out of touch with people under 30.

[Masculine Todd]

It's not about getting yourself over, it seems. It's about them getting you over and you making it work somehow so that whatever dumb shit they make you do that you're capable of pulling it off. The 'E doesn't actually like characters. Because characters are their own thing. The 'E likes brands, which are malleable and capable to be shape by fiat.

That's preposterous. It's the same shit they were doing in WCW. If something works, you don't question why it worked, you ask yourself "how do I capitalize on what's working." If Ryder's over, it's best to just, you know, go with it, especially at a time when they're severely lacking in over talent. It's such a counter-productive message to send to the locker room. "Are you entertaining? Are you industrious and good at getting yourself over through unconventional means? Are you taking the iniative? Well fuck you. WE DECIDE! WE ARE THE DECIDERS!"

[SteveFlack]

That's preposterous. It's the same shit they were doing in WCW. If something works, you don't question why it worked, you ask yourself "how do I capitalize on what's working." If Ryder's over, it's best to just, you know, go with it, especially at a time when they're severely lacking in over talent. It's such a counter-productive message to send to the locker room. "Are you entertaining? Are you industrious and good at getting yourself over through unconventional means? Are you taking the iniative? Well fuck you. WE DECIDE! WE ARE THE DECIDERS!"

The problem is that there is no competition. They are the number one wrestling brand in the world. When it comes to wrestling, why should they bother to try anything different? That's the problem here.

[iGotKittyPryde]

That's preposterous. It's the same shit they were doing in WCW. If something works, you don't question why it worked, you ask yourself "how do I capitalize on what's working." If Ryder's over, it's best to just, you know, go with it, especially at a time when they're severely lacking in over talent. It's such a counter-productive message to send to the locker room. "Are you entertaining? Are you industrious and good at getting yourself over through unconventional means? Are you taking the iniative? Well fuck you. WE DECIDE! WE ARE THE DECIDERS!"

Are you disagreeing that that's the way they think. Because I think he summed it up rather well. They like vague character-ish blobs that they can mold into whatever - they don't like fully formed characters because they can't change them summarily on a dime. If Truth had a more established character than they couldn't have done last night's turn the way they did.

Of course you have a few counter-examples - CM Punk for instance. But even Punk is whatever the 'E wants him to be, even if he's gotten a sharper defined character than 99% of the roster (better defined certainly than Cena or Orton, I would say. Probably better than Hunter, who like Cena often tries to be everything to everyone a lot and thus becomes a less well defined character)

[Masculine Todd]

The problem is that there is no competition. They are the number one wrestling brand in the world. When it comes to wrestling, why should they bother to try anything different? That's the problem here.

Even without competition, you need stars. It seems so obvious, especially in the wake of their quickly diminishing PPV buyrates. It's just...gah. Moreover, they need over talent to support their current ratings base. The infrastructure of their company would crumble if they weren't generating 3.0's (which attracts all those advertisers that are currently absorbing the losses in other business channels). It's just bad business.

[Masculine Todd]

Are you disagreeing that that's the way they think. Because I think he summed it up rather well. They like vague character-ish blobs that they can mold into whatever - they don't like fully formed characters because they can't change them summarily on a dime. If Truth had a more established character than they couldn't have done last night's turn the way they did.

Of course you have a few counter-examples - CM Punk for instance. But even Punk is whatever the 'E wants him to be, even if he's gotten a sharper defined character than 99% of the roster (better defined certainly than Cena or Orton, I would say. Probably better than Hunter, who like Cena often tries to be everything to everyone a lot and thus becomes a less well defined character)

Nah, I agree entirely with what Benel said, I just find their thought process illogical (as we all do). Vince/Dunn/heads of creative only want guys over who they felt they were responsible for making. I get it, but I can't get over how asinine that way of thinking is.

[joeAR]

New Japan Super Jr's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejZUzOXpPpc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Lab-Rat]

In regards to Zack Ryder being punished for getting himself over...I wonder if maybe it has less to do with the fact that he's actually doing it...and more to the fact that each week he has very not so subtle jabs at the WWE for not pushing him. Stuff like the "this is the WWE dropping the ball" or "this is the WWE missing the boat" stuff. Or even saying that there are no jobs in the US cause he's doing all the jobs...or the struggling to get over bit from this week's episode.

Don't get me wrong...I think they are hilarious. I find the web shows entertaining...and it makes me want to see him on TV to see if he can take this sudden popularity and make something out of it. However I wouldn't be surprised if someone saw the videos and didn't take them as jokes...but more as him painting the company he works for in a bad light. Just a thought.

Truthfully I just hope he doesn't get fired and someone comes to their senses and let's him do something. I say give him the ball. If he drops it...he has only his self to blame.....but if he can carry it and run with it...then everyone wins.



...and by ball I just mean give him a storyline to be part of.

[SteveFlack]

I just don't want Zack to get fired, because if he goes to TNA, he'd be just another guy who will turn his character into someone bitching about how Vince didn't get him.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

I don't see why the 'E just doesn't make THIS Ryder's angle...but I mean, that makes too much sense now. So now he would just be pretending to mock the 'E when in reality it's his push.

[Foolish Mortal]

I don't see why the 'E just doesn't make THIS Ryder's angle...but I mean, that makes too much sense now. So now he would just be pretending to mock the 'E when in reality it's his push.
Because the 'old guard' really doesn't like the internet or internet smarks, and don't want to play up to them.

[Kirblar]

Because the 'old guard' really doesn't like the internet or internet smarks, and don't want to play up to them.
They're absolutely correct on this one, though, and I actually would completely understand it if the "insider terminology" is the problem here.

Striker managed to cut his own throat by saying "Mark Out Moment" on PPV.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

They're absolutely correct on this one, though, and I actually would completely understand it if the "insider terminology" is the problem here.

Striker managed to cut his own throat by saying "Mark Out Moment" on PPV.

It's not insider terminology when your entire fanbase knows it...

[Kirblar]

It's not insider terminology when your entire fanbase knows it...
Still doesn't make it appropriate.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Still doesn't make it appropriate.

And why is that? Because the 'E's insistence that their "universe" is completely self-contained and "real?"

[Gregory]

Was it ten years ago when Edge and Christian announced to the RAW announce crew they were gonna do a "run-in" on a match?

[Foolish Mortal]

And why is that? Because the 'E's insistence that their "universe" is completely self-contained and "real?"
More that they dictate everyone and everything within the company and 'outsiders' shouldn't have any influence.

[michealdark]

It's not that they don't want to get over with social media, they want to do it on their own terms. Zach Ryder isn't playing by their rules.

That's exactly it!


Because the 'old guard' really doesn't like the internet or internet smarks, and don't want to play up to them.

Which is odd considering how they want to change the terminology around like they're ashamed to be a professional wrestling company now. Which I pointed out in one of my more recent promos in the OWF thread is just fucking dumb and I feel is an insult.

[Kirblar]

And why is that? Because the 'E's insistence that their "universe" is completely self-contained and "real?"
Because it's breaking character and inappropriate. You don't hear NFL play by play guys talking about Bret Farve's penis or contract status during the game itself.

[Greenville 90210]

Still doesn't make it appropriate.

Why? This is a company that had a group called the "JOB SQUAD". DX had a sign "Who Booked This Crap?" and other examples I can't think of right now.

I think it depends on the situation.

[joeAR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi7RgBU1nlE&feature=feedrec_grec_index

[joeAR]

Chris Hero sings

http://www.geekoplex.com/wordpress/?p=1261

[joeAR]

i'm dumb. Ignore this post.

[Kirblar]

Why? This is a company that had a group called the "JOB SQUAD". DX had a sign "Who Booked This Crap?" and other examples I can't think of right now.

I think it depends on the situation.
As a throw-away in joke once in a while that is going to go over the heads of most in the audience (much like adult humor in kid's cartoons) it's fine.

When you're making it overt, it's an issue. See: every time TNA has someone bitch on-air.

[michealdark]

Isn't going from saying "wrestling" or "shooting" to "action soap opera" making it too overt already?

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Then instead of being stupid about it, why doesn't the 'E take control of it in some fashion? Here's a guy trying to step up, trying to get noticed, and instead of being rewarded for his efforts or glad that he's succeeded in some form (his t-shirts sell for example), he's punished for not working within by what most think is an antiquated model? I mean, I'd much rather have a guy trying to get over by doing his own thing than squashing everyone elses *cough* Triple H Shawn Michaels Hulk Hogan *cough*

[Greenville 90210]

As a throw-away in joke once in a while that is going to go over the heads of most in the audience (much like adult humor in kid's cartoons) it's fine.

When you're making it overt, it's an issue. See: every time TNA has someone bitch on-air.

I agree.

I don't know what we're talking about anymore. What does this have to do with Zack Ryder? He says insider terms in a youtube video.

[Greenville 90210]

Then instead of being stupid about it, why doesn't the 'E take control of it in some fashion? Here's a guy trying to step up, trying to get noticed, and instead of being rewarded for his efforts or glad that he's succeeded in some form (his t-shirts sell for example), he's punished for not working within by what most think is an antiquated model? I mean, I'd much rather have a guy trying to get over by doing his own thing than squashing everyone elses *cough* Triple H Shawn Michaels Hulk Hogan *cough*

Exactly. They could take this as a sign to actually put the guy in an angle on RAW or Smackdown but instead they get controlling and political because it wasn't in their plan. They don't want him to be over.

Their goal should be for everyone to be over with the audience. Even some of the jobbers.

[Foolish Mortal]

Which is odd considering how they want to change the terminology around like they're ashamed to be a professional wrestling company now. Which I pointed out in one of my more recent promos in the OWF thread is just fucking dumb and I feel is an insult.
It's not so much about being "ashamed", it's that pro-wrestling has a negative connotation to a percentage of people. And it's those people they're trying to attract as an audience.

Yes, there are a lot of semantics involved here, but they seem to think those semantics are important.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Exactly. They could take this as a sign to actually put the guy in an angle on RAW or Smackdown but instead they get controlling and political because it wasn't in their plan. They don't want him to be over.

Their goal should be for everyone to be over with the audience. Even some of the jobbers.

Exactly. Because that ultimately sells tickets and more merch. It's a pure win situation.

And how is he making YouTube videos saying that the 'E's not doing a good job with him any different than an athelete bitching about not getting the ball or enough play time? Hell, people LOVE Ocho Cinco because of it. He, like many others, have made a career based on bitching about his role.

[Gregory]

This is the company that won't let you say "belt."

[michealdark]

But how can you pretend to have an air of realism when you're admitting that you're a soap opera. "Sports Entertainment" I could handle. It's just a description of what pro-wrestling is. "Action soap opera" is simply throwing your hands in the air and going, "You know what, fuck you, we don't care anymore."

[Adrian B AWESOME]

It's not so much about being "ashamed", it's that pro-wrestling has a negative connotation to a percentage of people. And it's those people they're trying to attract as an audience.

Yes, there are a lot of semantics involved here, but they seem to think those semantics are important.

Yep. Pro-wrestling is a dirty word and, frankly, they did it to themselves. When you put on the type of ass-backwards programming that "the business" did for 30 years, it's no wonder that the general populace thinks uneducated hicks and the mentally challenged are the only people who enjoy it.

[Kirblar]

The big issue with Ryder's videos is that he's accidentally pulling a Matt Hardy. Because the insider stuff can come off as him just bitching about his position in the company.

He's crossing lines that he really shouldn't be and doesn't have to.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

But how can you pretend to have an air of realism when you're admitting that you're a soap opera. "Sports Entertainment" I could handle. It's just a description of what pro-wrestling is. "Action soap opera" is simply throwing your hands in the air and going, "You know what, fuck you, we don't care anymore."

And yet, I'm fine with that. The sooner they admit this is just a show and start focusing an entertaining program and less on creating a blur between reality and fiction, the better for everyone involved.

[Gregory]

The big issue with Ryder's videos is that he's accidentally pulling a Matt Hardy. Because the insider stuff can come off as him just bitching about his position in the company.

He's crossing lines that he really shouldn't be and doesn't have to.

"Woo woo woo, you know better."

[Adrian B AWESOME]

The big issue with Ryder is that he's accidentally pulling a Matt Hardy. Because the insider stuff can come off as him just bitching about his position in the company.

It's very tongue and cheek, though. Matt Hardy's whole thing felt like sour grapes, as they tried several times to push him and yet he never got over with the fans outside the tag team with his much more popular drugged-out brother.

I think if Ryder lays off some of the jokes about the company, I think things would be better for him.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

The big issue with Ryder's videos is that he's accidentally pulling a Matt Hardy. Because the insider stuff can come off as him just bitching about his position in the company.

He's crossing lines that he really shouldn't be and doesn't have to.

Why doesn't he have to? When's the last time the guy's had an actual match on Raw or Smackdown? When's the last time we've actually seen him do anything? You know, in many ways, the 'E taking those signs down puts out a notice that they ARE paying attention to him in some way. The trick is now to turn that into an angle.

[Gregory]

And yet, I'm fine with that. The sooner they admit this is just a show and start focusing an entertaining program and less on creating a blur between reality and fiction, the better for everyone involved.

I agree. That's where WCW and TNA went awry: They tried to skew the drama as real at the expense of the illusion of the ringwork. And because the ringwork took back seat to the kayfabe-nudging storylines, they could de-emphasize the ringwork. And that's why the matches are two minutes long. They focus more on the stories told by the announcers or promos. The proper ratio of yapping to slapping is completely inverted.

[Kirblar]

It's very tongue and cheek, though. Matt Hardy's whole thing felt like sour grapes, as they tried several times to push him and yet he never got over with the fans outside the tag team with his much more popular drugged-out brother.

I think if Ryder lays off some of the jokes about the company, I think things would be better for him.
That's generally it- pulling a McNulty is going to get you in deep shit unless you have the clout (like say, Jericho) to get away with it.

[michealdark]

And yet, I'm fine with that. The sooner they admit this is just a show and start focusing an entertaining program and less on creating a blur between reality and fiction, the better for everyone involved.

ROH doesn't have to ditch the terminology to put on a great show, why should the E?

[Foolish Mortal]

What they desperately want is WWE programming to be viewed in the same way as Survivor, Big Brother, and other competition-based reality shows, but maintaining control of how everything is presented.

[michealdark]

I agree. That's where WCW and TNA went awry: They tried to skew the drama as real at the expense of the illusion of the ringwork. And because the ringwork took back seat to the kayfabe-nudging storylines, they could de-emphasize the ringwork. And that's why the matches are two minutes long. They focus more on the stories told by the announcers or promos. The proper ratio of yapping to slapping is completely inverted.

TNA's gone down the shitter but putting too much emphasis on the story and not the ring work. That's ass backwards. I want to be wowed by athletic maneuvers, not be bored by ill-defined characters hamming it up.

[Greenville 90210]

It's not so much about being "ashamed", it's that pro-wrestling has a negative connotation to a percentage of people. And it's those people they're trying to attract as an audience.

Yes, there are a lot of semantics involved here, but they seem to think those semantics are important.

It's also the advertisers they're trying to attract.

[michealdark]

What they desperately want is WWE programming to be viewed in the same way as Survivor, Big Brother, and other competition-based reality shows, but maintaining control of how everything is presented.

That's the wrong move to make though, unless you turn the whole thing into an elimination style set-up, where people that don't win their matches get fired or something.

[Greenville 90210]

But how can you pretend to have an air of realism when you're admitting that you're a soap opera. "Sports Entertainment" I could handle. It's just a description of what pro-wrestling is. "Action soap opera" is simply throwing your hands in the air and going, "You know what, fuck you, we don't care anymore."

To be fair, we'll never hear them say "Action Soap Opera". That's an international thing.

[Bervda]

Goddamn double post.

[Bervda]

ROH doesn't have to ditch the terminology to put on a great show, why should the E?

WWE doesn't care about a great show, they care about one that makes money.

[Greenville 90210]

What they desperately want is WWE programming to be viewed in the same way as Survivor, Big Brother, and other competition-based reality shows, but maintaining control of how everything is presented.

Bingo. Also Vince mentions Saturday Night Live a lot (especially during the Guest Host days). The problem is those guys are actual comedy writers. Vince doesn't want "wrestling writers", he wants failed sitcom and soap writers who feel that they're slumming it writing wrestling. They don't want wrestling fans in the room.

[Foolish Mortal]

It's also the advertisers they're trying to attract.
Yes but if they broaden their audience, they'll get the advertisers. If the demographics numbers aren't there, the advertisers won't be interested.

[Greenville 90210]

Yes but if they broaden their audience, they'll get the advertisers. If the demographics numbers aren't there, the advertisers won't be interested.

I get all of that. They'll sacrifice the fans they do have for new fans that are either kids or people that don't like wrestling and want to make fun of it like its a dumb reality show. I get it.

[michealdark]

To be fair, we'll never hear them say "Action Soap Opera". That's an international thing.

I don't care, it still gets on my nerves.


WWE doesn't care about a great show, they care about one that makes money.

Who's to say they couldn't do both if they really tried?


Bingo. Also Vince mentions Saturday Night Live a lot (especially during the Guest Host days). The problem is those guys are actual comedy writers. Vince doesn't want "wrestling writers", he wants failed sitcom and soap writers who feel that they're slumming it writing wrestling. They don't want wrestling fans in the room.

True. I get a stronger sense of that from TNA though. Either that, or Russo and Hogan are just that terrible and Jarrett, Angle, and Carter have lost their damn minds.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Jeff Jarrett is a mid-carder who had his family buy a company to make himself champion.

[michealdark]

And was still one of the best heels in the business, and for about 5 years was running something truly different and innovative.

[Gregory]

And was still one of the best heels in the business

I suspect at least half his boos are from the X-Pac type of heat. I biased though. I never liked him.

[Greenville 90210]

I suspect at least half his boos are from the X-Pac type of heat. I biased though. I never liked him.

I liked him as an IC champ with the big, flasky glasses and the strut. I didn't like the Russo's wCw "Slapnutz" Jarrett at all.

[Bervda]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxKSM1tLGwY

[Adrian B AWESOME]

And was still one of the best heels in the business, and for about 5 years was running something truly different and innovative.

...by calling people Slapnuts and smashing guitars over their heads? Yeah, innovative.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxKSM1tLGwY

And fans wonder why they view us as hicks...

[Bervda]

...by calling people Slapnuts and smashing guitars over their heads? Yeah, innovative.

I thought slapnuts was funny. I'm a Jarrett fan.

[Greenville 90210]

This is the Jarrett I like.

[michealdark]

...by calling people Slapnuts and smashing guitars over their heads? Yeah, innovative.

The X-Division, King of the Mountain, Ultimate X, Elimination X, the formation of the Knockouts division, the six-sided ring, Six Sides of Steel, Monster's Brawl, Raven's House of Fun, Barbed Wire Massacre, none of these count as innovations to you?

[Gregory]

The only time Jarret has been entertaining was during his WCW Sting feud. That fake Visa commercial showed some personality.

[Bervda]

The X-Division, King of the Mountain, Ultimate X, Elimination X, the formation of the Knockouts division, the six-sided ring, Six Sides of Steel, Monster's Brawl, Raven's House of Fun, Barbed Wire Massacre, none of these count as innovations to you?

To be fair, not all of those may be his creations. Also, a lot of wrestling fans don't like some of those things.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

I thought slapnuts was funny. I'm a Jarrett fan.

It's so lowest common denominator. It's basically the guys you went to high school who didn't leave town and now work menial factory jobs type of humor. If you like it, good on ya. It must hit you in a way that it doesn't affect me at all.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

The X-Division, King of the Mountain, Ultimate X, Elimination X, the formation of the Knockouts division, the six-sided ring, Six Sides of Steel, Monster's Brawl, Raven's House of Fun, Barbed Wire Massacre, none of these count as innovations to you?

Gimmicks are not innovation. The X-Division is merely a cruiserweight division with a couple of bigger guys thrown in. The Six-Sided ring was different, sure. That's about it. And now that's gone. Barbed wire matches are older than me. Raven's matches are basically rehashes of his ECW days. Women's divisions have always existed. Ultimate X is new, I'll give you that. Thing is it's usually the most botched match on the card. King of the Mountain? Dead.

I mean, they were willing to try things, and I don't want to seem like I'm an irrational hater (TNA is terrrrrible, but in 2005, that Samoa Joe/AJ Styles/Fallen Angel feud was EPIC) but gimmick matches and slight variations do not equate to innovation when everything else is the exact same.

[michealdark]

To be fair, not all of those may be his creations. Also, a lot of wrestling fans don't like some of those things.

A lot of wrestling fans are scared of new ideas, just like a lot of comics fans. Which is fucking depressing.

[michealdark]

Gimmicks are not innovation. The X-Division is merely a cruiserweight division. The Six-Sided ring was different, sure. That's about it. Barbed wire matches are older than me.

Fine, call them gimmicks if you want, but you have to admit TNA was trying stuff, and the product they put out at the time was more exciting to watch that what WWE was

[Bervda]

Fine, call them gimmicks if you want, but you have to admit TNA was trying stuff, and the product they put out at the time was more exciting to watch that what WWE was

I agree wholeheartedly. It's a shame that they've fallen so far. They're product is an even bigger joke than the WWE, and there was a point in time that I wouldn't have imagined saying that.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Fine, call them gimmicks if you want, but you have to admit TNA was trying stuff, and the product they put out at the time was more exciting to watch that what WWE was

WAS is the keyword here. WAS.

[Brad N.]

It's very tongue and cheek, though. Matt Hardy's whole thing felt like sour grapes, as they tried several times to push him and yet he never got over with the fans outside the tag team with his much more popular drugged-out brother.

I think if Ryder lays off some of the jokes about the company, I think things would be better for him.

Not to be that guy, but Matt Hardy has always been HUGE with the fans. From the moment he became Matt Hardy V.1 to the moment he was given his release he would get one of the biggest pops on every show he was on. That was his problem. He was massively popular, he moved merch, and he got over for YEARS for no rhyme or reason. Vince didn't like him and it only made him more angry that he couldn't figure out why Hardy was so popular. Despite what the WWE did to him he was always over. Hell, they FIRED him during the whole Lita/Edge debacle and for weeks you would hear loud "We Want Matt" chants and when they teased his appearance at their "wedding" I can't recall too many bigger pops in all my years watching.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

The moment they stopped being affiliated with NWA, the company went through the floor. By having the NWA belts it created some form of levity for the organization. Without them, who gives a crap? Russo getting elevated to head of creative along with Hogan entering in 2009 finally killed it for me. I saw the writing on the wall and I've been completely right since.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Not to be that guy, but Matt Hardy has always been HUGE with the fans. From the moment he became Matt Hardy V.1 to the moment he was given his release he would get one of the biggest pops on every show he was on. That was his problem. He was massively popular, he moved merch, and he got over for YEARS for no rhyme or reason. Vince didn't like him and it only made him more angry that he couldn't figure out why Hardy was so popular. Despite what the WWE did to him he was always over. Hell, they FIRED him during the whole Lita/Edge debacle and for weeks you would hear loud "We Want Matt" chants and when they teased his appearance at their "wedding" I can't recall too many bigger pops in all my years watching.

Maybe it's just because I've never been a fan that I didn't recognize or recall.

[michealdark]

I agree wholeheartedly. It's a shame that they've fallen so far. They're product is an even bigger joke than the WWE, and there was a point in time that I wouldn't have imagined saying that.


WAS is the keyword here. WAS.

And I know why they've fallen so far, and that's because they decided sometime in '08 that if they were going to compete with the E, then they needed to be the E, only with more interference and thrown out matches, more acting and promos, and less actual wrestling. You know it's bad when the average iMPACT has like 35 minutes of wrestling while the E has closer to an hour or so

[Foolish Mortal]

Not to be that guy, but Matt Hardy has always been HUGE with the fans. From the moment he became Matt Hardy V.1 to the moment he was given his release he would get one of the biggest pops on every show he was on. That was his problem. He was massively popular, he moved merch, and he got over for YEARS for no rhyme or reason. Vince didn't like him and it only made him more angry that he couldn't figure out why Hardy was so popular. Despite what the WWE did to him he was always over. Hell, they FIRED him during the whole Lita/Edge debacle and for weeks you would hear loud "We Want Matt" chants and when they teased his appearance at their "wedding" I can't recall too many bigger pops in all my years watching.
Yep, if Matt suddenly showed up at a WWE show, he would get a ginormous pop. No doubt.

As for Jeff Hardy, I honestly think the reason why he still remains so popular is because of his anti-establishment, 'Yeah I'm a dope-head, fuck it' persona.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Yep, if Matt suddenly showed up at a WWE show, he would get a ginormous pop. No doubt.

As for Jeff Hardy, I honestly think the reason why he still remains so popular is because of his anti-establishment, 'Yeah I'm a dope-head, fuck it' persona.

He's so cool! Go botch a bunch of moves, Jeff!

[Brad N.]

The moment they stopped being affiliated with NWA, the company went through the floor. By having the NWA belts it created some form of levity for the organization. Without them, who gives a crap? Russo getting elevated to head of creative along with Hogan entering in 2009 finally killed it for me. I saw the writing on the wall and I've been completely right since.

I've always said that if I were to win the lotto or make a ton of money in a short time period I would buy TNA and one of the first things I'd do is buy the rights to the NWA name and library. Scrap TNA entirely and just go by the NWA. I'd go off TV for a couple months to retool the company, fire dead weight like Hogan, and hire a quality writing team made up of a couple folks here, Dutch Mantel, Jim Cornette, Russo (as just one of a group he can have value), maybe a guy like Lance Storm, and a female voice like Trish Stratus, and have the whole team lead by my VP of Creative - Paul Heyman. I'd try to bring Joey Styles over as well, and I'd go out and find some former Disney or ABC type exec to be the Exec. VP of the company (smart business guy in charge). I'd get rid of wrestlers (that's right, wrestlers) and angles that don't work and I'd hire guys from all over the world to work. I'd build a quality product from the ground up making matches and titles matter and focusing on a healthy mixture of fun, funny, and edgy entertainment and promos and solid wrestling action week in and week out. Kind of what I enjoyed about the modern golden era of the Monday Night Wars.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

I've always said that if I were to win the lotto or make a ton of money in a short time period I would buy TNA and one of the first things I'd do is buy the rights to the NWA name and library. Scrap TNA entirely and just go by the NWA. I'd go off TV for a couple months to retool the company, fire dead weight like Hogan, and hire a quality writing team made up of a couple folks here, Dutch Mantel, Jim Cornette, Russo (as just one of a group he can have value), maybe a guy like Lance Storm, and a female voice like Trish Stratus, and have the whole team lead by my VP of Creative - Paul Heyman. I'd try to bring Joey Styles over as well, and I'd go out and find some former Disney or ABC type exec to be the Exec. VP of the company (smart business guy in charge). I'd get rid of wrestlers (that's right, wrestlers) and angles that don't work and I'd hire guys from all over the world to work. I'd build a quality product from the ground up making matches and titles matter and focusing on a healthy mixture of fun, funny, and edgy entertainment and promos and solid wrestling action week in and week out. Kind of what I enjoyed about the modern golden era of the Monday Night Wars.

I mean, I see the purpose in your plan, but the problem is this: Dutch Mantel, Jim Cornette (especially Cornette), Heyman...they're all sticking to the old ways of doing things. Even Heyman, who in the 90s was so progressive and fresh, is now stale and old. New blood is what they need now. People in their early 30s who are passionate about the business and want to tell new stories in a fresh and bold way that doesn't rely on juvenile name calling or hammy overacting. Allowing the best of the old (wrestlers getting to cut their own promos, not having everything scripted, etc.) with the new (a real sense of direction, matches that don't have a billion run-ins, etc.) is the way to go. But that's just me.

[joeAR]

Gimmicks are not innovation. The X-Division is merely a cruiserweight division with a couple of bigger guys thrown in. The Six-Sided ring was different, sure. That's about it. And now that's gone. Barbed wire matches are older than me. Raven's matches are basically rehashes of his ECW days. Women's divisions have always existed. Ultimate X is new, I'll give you that. Thing is it's usually the most botched match on the card. King of the Mountain? Dead.

I mean, they were willing to try things, and I don't want to seem like I'm an irrational hater (TNA is terrrrrible, but in 2005, that Samoa Joe/AJ Styles/Fallen Angel feud was EPIC) but gimmick matches and slight variations do not equate to innovation when everything else is the exact same.


I have nothing to add except yes you are correct sir.

[michealdark]

He's so cool! Go botch a bunch of moves, Jeff!

I also think another reason he's so over is that he's not afraid of HUGE spots (some reason I think Shane McMahon was so over). Although sometimes I think he's just suicidal. I still love watching his best matches, but I'm constantly amazed by the fact he isn't dead yet.


I've always said that if I were to win the lotto or make a ton of money in a short time period I would buy TNA and one of the first things I'd do is buy the rights to the NWA name and library. Scrap TNA entirely and just go by the NWA. I'd go off TV for a couple months to retool the company, fire dead weight like Hogan, and hire a quality writing team made up of a couple folks here, Dutch Mantel, Jim Cornette, Russo (as just one of a group he can have value), maybe a guy like Lance Storm, and a female voice like Trish Stratus, and have the whole team lead by my VP of Creative - Paul Heyman. I'd try to bring Joey Styles over as well, and I'd go out and find some former Disney or ABC type exec to be the Exec. VP of the company (smart business guy in charge). I'd get rid of wrestlers (that's right, wrestlers) and angles that don't work and I'd hire guys from all over the world to work. I'd build a quality product from the ground up making matches and titles matter and focusing on a healthy mixture of fun, funny, and edgy entertainment and promos and solid wrestling action week in and week out. Kind of what I enjoyed about the modern golden era of the Monday Night Wars.


I mean, I see the purpose in your plan, but the problem is this: Dutch Mantel, Jim Cornette (especially Cornette), Heyman...they're all sticking to the old ways of doing things. Even Heyman, who in the 90s was so progressive and fresh, is now stale and old. New blood is what they need now. People in their early 30s who are passionate about the business and want to tell new stories in a fresh and bold way that doesn't rely on juvenile name calling or hammy overacting. Allowing the best of the old (wrestlers getting to cut their own promos, not having everything scripted, etc.) with the new (a real sense of direction, matches that don't have a billion run-ins, etc.) is the way to go. But that's just me.

I like both ideas.

[joeAR]

Today's scheduled hearing in the criminal case against former WWE and TNA champion Jeff Hardy was continued because Hardy's defense attorney asked the Judge for additional time in order for Hardy to be assessed for whether he needs treatment for drug dependency.
According to North Carolina newspaper The Southern Pines Pilot, Becky Carlson, the district administrator for the 19-B J.D. Sentencing Services Program, is scheduled to assess Hardy. Since she has just taken on the case and would need to assess him as well as get a second opinion, that process has not yet been completed.

Should Hardy's assessment turn up that he needs help for a drug dependency, it could lead to a plea deal that ends the criminal case against him.

A hearing is now set for 6/27

[Masculine Todd]

I like how there's a two page debate about Zack Ryder videos using "insider idioms" and somehow lifting the curtain a bit. He's used one "insider term," and that's "getting over." Hunter screamed at Cody and Ted about not "being over" in a few of his promos during the DX/Legacy tag rivalry. It's an innocuous comment and the videos are appealing to a niche-but-sizable demographic who's aware of the verbiage already.

He's not posting vitriol-laced diatribes about how he can't make it, and exposing the politics of WWE. He's not prefacing each installment by saying "I'm breaking kayfabe so you know this shit's real." He's not inadvertently "pulling a Matt Hardy." Ryder's throwing out a few harmless jokes (which account for eight seconds of what are generally 4-6 minute videos), being incredibly self-deprecating and conveying his brand of charisma in an endearing way. That should be exploited by the office, not punished.

[Foolish Mortal]

Today's scheduled hearing in the criminal case against former WWE and TNA champion Jeff Hardy was continued because Hardy's defense attorney asked the Judge for additional time in order for Hardy to be assessed for whether he needs treatment for drug dependency.
Seriously? Seriously?? :lol:

[michealdark]

The Hardy case is getting ridiculous. Yes Jeff, you need rehab, no judge you shouldn't keep letting Jeff stall for time

[Adrian B AWESOME]

Dixie Carter should be ashamed of herself. He's still under contract with TNA and yet, they've made absolutely no effort to get him clean and healthy.

[Lab-Rat]

I like how there's a two page debate about Zack Ryder videos using "insider idioms" and somehow lifting the curtain a bit. He's used one, and that's "getting over." Hunter screamed at Cody and Ted about not "getting over" dozens of times during the DX/Legacy tag rivalry. It's an innocuous comment and the videos are appealing to a niche-but-sizable demographic who's aware of the verbiage already.

He's not posting vitriol-laced diatribes about how he can't make it, and exposing the politics of WWE. He's not prefacing each installment by saying "I'm breaking kayfabe so you know this shit's real." He's not inadvertently "pulling a Matt Hardy." Ryder's throwing out a few harmless jokes, being incredibly self-deprecating and conveying his brand of charisma in an endearing way. That should be exploited by the office, not punished.

I agree with you whole heartedly. The fact that he even makes fun of himself...especially the thing with his dad being a huge Morrison fan...should tell everyone that he's just poking fun at his current place in Wrestling and it's not malicious in any way....and most of all he's just doing something to get noticed while having fun doing it. However just because you, me, and a whole lot of other people get it...doesn't mean that management in the WWE gets it....and that's the problem.

[michealdark]

Dixie Carter should be ashamed of herself. He's still under contract with TNA and yet, they've made absolutely no effort to get him clean and healthy.

That's because TNA are more worried about having a big draw than about that draw's health. They learned nothing from the Benoit tragedy while WWE at the very least learned to enforce what they already have, and have even sent guys packing with it, as well as gotten others to straighten themselves out (like Masters, who has 2 strikes against him. I think Orton does too, but I think those might be from behavoiral problems and not drug issues).

[Masculine Todd]

Yep, if Matt suddenly showed up at a WWE show, he would get a ginormous pop. No doubt.

As for Jeff Hardy, I honestly think the reason why he still remains so popular is because of his anti-establishment, 'Yeah I'm a dope-head, fuck it' persona.

Jeff's really a perfect synthesis of aesthetics (faux-goth in the early '00s, sorty punky for a while, and in his last run, he was more every-man/blue collar [wifebeater] mixed with the weird facepaint for a combination of accessible and eccentric), flashy moves (the aerial offense/spots), growing into a good worker and being able to relay an underdog character rather well during a match and yeah, that rebellious "have 2 wellness strikes and I'm pushing a third" disposition.

There were two points in Hardy's career that I really became a fan; in the summer of '02, they began teasing a heel turn and had him making erratic decisions and being reckless (to mirror his drug problems, apparently), which someone got him over more as a face, culminating in that picture-perfect ladder match for the WWE Championship against biker Undertaker (who was on a hot-streak as a malicious, vindictive bully that spring/summer) on Raw (I think it was July '02). That was the first time I saw Hardy self-actualize the role of "underdog," and that, coupled with the "reckless, unpredictable" thing they were doing with him made the match so great. 'Taker, to his credit, worked to get Hardy over, and there were a few times that it seemed Hardy would actually win the strap. After that, he was quickly demoted to the midcard again and released the following spring.

When Hardy reappeared in WWE around '06/'07, he was cleaned up (however temporary) and motivated. Hardy was such an evolved worker/performer, and he got himself over during that Umaga feud (that feud's purpose was to groom Umaga for a monster-heel title run), which ultimately led to Hardy's matches with Orton and Hunter. Hardy's matches with Triple H in '08 were fantastic, as was his feud with Edge and Punk in '09. He really grew into everything.

It's a shame to watch the guy deteriorate due to addiction. That run from '07-'09 was one of the best wrestler-reformations I've seen since being a fan.

[Masculine Todd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulhEcw7R5FY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tXGqTRLHCk&feature=related

[Masculine Todd]

2002 was probably my favorite year as a fan:

-Jericho as Undisputed Champ (albeit a poorly booked reign that did more harm than good)
-Rock/Hogan at 'Mania
-Shawn's return, matches with Hunter (No Holds Barred at Summer Slam, Elimination Chamber at Survivor Series, 3 Stages of Hell at Armageddon)
-Brock/Rock build (perfect in its simplicity)
-Eddie/Edge ladder match
-Paul Heyman booked Smackdown and the tag team title feud (Angle/Benoit vs. Rey/Edge vs. Los Guerreros)
-Rey's debut and subsequent match with Angle at Summer Slam
-'Taker/Hardy ladder match
-'Taker/Angle/Rock triple threat at Vengeance
-Golddust/Booker segments
-formation of Evolution

[michealdark]

Yeah, '02 was a stellar year

[The Human Target]

That was a great period.

1999 to like 2004 was awesome.

[michealdark]

Yes it was. Outside of botching the invasion angle of course.

[The Human Target]

It was the weird transitional "taint" period between the Attitude Era and the Modern Age.

[michealdark]

Looking back on those times, I liked Batista and Orton better with the hair. They both seem like Samson to me: all the power came from the hair. When they chopped it off they lost like 3/4 of their abilities. Orton thankfully has started to find them again, though his promos still never seem to change, while Batista had to borrow power from other people to really be "on".

[Adrian B AWESOME]

I've always thought the Hardy BoyZZZZZZ were pretty stupid. Guess I'm not punk rock enough like Todd. :p

[Anbecom Verted]

http://www.twincities.com/ci_17890175?nclick_check=1

Kurt Angle sentenced for reckless driving.