About the other Olney Thread

[HamsterRage]

I had a though today about this whole situation and how ignorance was Olney's ally in taking advantage of people and it really bugged me... so I posted the following in the old thread:


I'd like to request the mods re-sticky this thread.

CBR gets a lot of traffic and it would suck if any freelancers get conned into Olney's shenanigans due ignorance about the man.

[Gail Simone]

I had a though today about this whole situation and how ignorance was Olney's ally in taking advantage of people and it really bugged me... so I posted the following in the old thread:

It's irritating that the people making all the noise about it are people who had little or nothing to do with Yabs. And I got more complaints about Rick (CBR Rick, not Deadbeat Rick) than I ever did about the Olney thread, so his getting the vapors is kind of embarrassing to watch.

I've given up reading it over there, I'm afraid.

[Tom Stillwell]

It's irritating that the people making all the noise about it are people who had little or nothing to do with Yabs. And I got more complaints about Rick (CBR Rick, not Deadbeat Rick) than I ever did about the Olney thread, so his getting the vapors is kind of embarrassing to watch.

I've given up reading it over there, I'm afraid.

It's also pretty cowardly of CBR Rick and his ilk. Once we're all gone then they come in on the high horse to condemn the thread. If they had a problem there was ample time to voice it when we were they. But I guess that would take balls and they seem to lack them entirely.

If it were not for that thread there would be no Unscrewed. Without Unscrewed there would be a dozen Olney orphans that wouldn't have received aid of any kind. Without Unscrewed I wouldn't have just helped a freelancer recover almost 10K in unpaid debt.

As far as I'm concerned CBR Rick & Co. can go fuck themselves.

[Gail Simone]

It's also pretty cowardly of CBR Rick and his ilk. Once we're all gone then they come in on the high horse to condemn the thread. If they had a problem there was ample time to voice it when we were they. But I guess that would take balls and they seem to lack them entirely.

If it were not for that thread there would be no Unscrewed. Without Unscrewed there would be a dozen Olney orphans that wouldn't have received aid of any kind. Without Unscrewed I wouldn't have just helped a freelancer recover almost 10K in unpaid debt.

As far as I'm concerned CBR Rick & Co. can go fuck themselves.


My opinion of CBR Rick isn't particularly high at the best of times, but I will defend him here, he hasn't liked the thread for years and has stated so several times. Whatever else he may be, I don't think he's being hypocritical.

But yeah, the geniuses who say, "all you need to do is post the relevant facts without the other stuff," are fucking idiots. There are a hundred scumbag deadbeat stories in the last few years of comics, and who remembers them?

The people involved and their friends, with a few exceptions.

The Olney thread would not have lasted if it was just, "here's what Rick did, he cheated these people." It wouldn't have stayed on the front page for three days, with the traffic Yabs generates. It was the oddball stuff that Rick did, and the social stuff, that kept that thread going for five + years. It would have been forgotten half a decade ago, if these geniuses had had their way.

And in that five years, Rick would have been forgotten, and would have been allowed to cheat god knows how many people.

That thread brought some of comics biggest names to cbr. It had people like Mike Netzer, Paul Smith, Colleen Doran, Tony Isabella, Kurt Busiek, James Owen, and Mark Waid making people aware of the danger of working for people like Rick, or even attending their fake conventions, or getting involved in any way. If we'd followed CBR Rick's advice, NONE of that would have happened. NONE.

Unscrewed was formed because of that thread, which has already helped a ton of people and will continue to do so. Again, if we'd done a news thread, which would have been promptly forgotten, none of that would have happened.

I can live with some of CBR's biggest douchebags calling me 'tacky' if it saves one working pro from getting derailed and cheated, and it's already saved dozens, maybe even more. Over and over again we got letters saying, "Hey, this Olney guy is contacting me, but then I read your thread..." from freelancers. He was still actively trying to cheat people as recently as TWO MONTHS AGO.

So, my message to CBR Rick is, wake the fuck up. You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

It's easy to be a douchebag who points and says, tsk tsk, or you can do something about it. We did something about it. What we did worked. What they suggest would have been forgotten and replaced by a thread about nothing in about two hours flat.

Couldn't care less what those others say.

[Slewo.O]

What exactly does CBR Rick have against your thread against Olney?

[Gail Simone]

It's a weird thing. CBR Rick was one of our most problematic posters, he said some genuinely stupid things that should have gotten him banned (he called a trans woman by manly names just to be insulting, but apologized pretty quickly so I didn't ban him but it still pissed me off). He's just one of those guys you roll your eyes at all the time.

Which is the only reason this is so ridiculous.

He felt the thread got tacky, which it did, sometimes. But no tackier than a million other threads, including many that he himself posts on, or that he himself was the worst offender on.

And I say again, there are a thousand tacky threads here at BenBo, and a thousand at CBR, and most of them are about not a goddamn thing. The Olney thread got people work who needed money, spread the word about a deadbeat, prevented NEW people from being cheated, helped people with their legal cases, raised money for people victimized by scumbag fake publishers, on and on and on. It DID things. Positive things happened because of it that never would have happened in a million years if we'd done as CBR Rick suggested.

People got offended and people got hot and said mean things in response to Olney's insults and bullshit, but when you have a guy who insults a freelancer he has cheated, who just lost his baby daughter, which Olney gleefully did with one of the nicest creators I've ever met, my opinion is no amount of bile is enough. I've seen the havoc Rick caused by cheating so many people and even THAT I might have been able to shrug off if he hadn't been so hell bent on threatening and insulting them after.

For years, Rick got away with cheating people because they kept silent, and because he threatened them with lawsuits if they talked.

Until he ran into some people who stood up and said, bring it on, then, deadbeat.

Since then, we have over and over again prevented freelancers from being cheated in Rick's cycle of bullshit.

While the detractors look down their noses and go back to their pointless yammering about Iron Man or whatever.

Good luck to them, but I would rather have prevented freelancers from being cheated. Even if it gives people the vapors.

[bert]

It's also pretty cowardly of CBR Rick and his ilk. Once we're all gone then they come in on the high horse to condemn the thread. If they had a problem there was ample time to voice it when we were they. But I guess that would take balls and they seem to lack them entirely.

If it were not for that thread there would be no Unscrewed. Without Unscrewed there would be a dozen Olney orphans that wouldn't have received aid of any kind. Without Unscrewed I wouldn't have just helped a freelancer recover almost 10K in unpaid debt.

As far as I'm concerned CBR Rick & Co. can go fuck themselves.

pretty much my point I was making when I posted the thread about how I had been planning on continuing to post on YABS, but was disgusted with how it was turning.

I got my hand slapped for saying that.

but I'm glad others are speaking up as well.

I understand Mark/Perry compromised by removing the sticky and putting a link to it in the one stickied thread. But it should have remained stickied.

one final thought, and then I won't talk about the YABS thread on this. I have absolutely NO issue w/ CBR-Rick on this. Yes, he's a little bit on his high-horse, but at least he *DID* speak up (and pretty often) about his disdain for the Olney thread on CBR.

He's coming across very holier than thou, but at least he isn't coming in after the party's over and decaring "that party sucked!" like a bunch of other folks.


and speaking of sucks. .you know who does? Scumbags who don't pay freelancers who have done work for them (yes, that would be YOU pRick).

[Gail Simone]

I agree, cbr Rick is not saying anything he wasn't saying before.

But being lectured on tact by cbr rick is still freaking hilarious.

I didn't like the swipe bouncing boy took at Mac, either.

[bert]

I didn't like the swipe bouncing boy took at Mac, either.

In fairness, I believe that Mark and MacQ know each other fairly well, and I took that as a sarcastic poke.

I'm waiting to see if MacQ is upset before I judge.

[HamsterRage]

CBR rick is also didn't understand that yanking a woman's shirt down against her will is sexual assault.

[MacQuarrie]

In fairness, I believe that Mark and MacQ know each other fairly well, and I took that as a sarcastic poke.

I'm waiting to see if MacQ is upset before I judge.

If it's the comment about me not getting jokes on the internet, that's pretty true. My general policy is to take things at face value online; I often miss sarcasm, ironic intent and sardonic comments due to lack of facial expression, attitude and tone of voice, especially with people I don't know well.

That, and I am of the opinion that jokes are supposed to be funny. If somebody's comment isn't funny, why would anyone assume it's a joke?

I also am of the opinion that "many a true word is said in jest." If somebody posts a "joking" question about forum rules, the question should still be answered directly, as if the question were asked in good faith, simply for the benefit of other, newer members, and also to shut down that line of "comedy" before others join in to see where the boundary is actually located. Since I was passing through, I decided to go ahead and answer it.

[Gail Simone]

All right, my apologies to Bouncing Boy, and if Mac is okay with it, so am I. So moving onwards!

[bert]

If it's the comment about me not getting jokes on the internet, that's pretty true. My general policy is to take things at face value online; I often miss sarcasm, ironic intent and sardonic comments due to lack of facial expression, attitude and tone of voice, especially with people I don't know well.



I believe that was what Gail was referring to.

glad to see that I read it the way Mark intended it (and you took it).

[Kevin T Brown]

Welcome Matt!!!! (Ok, there's a bad pun in there some place....)




Anyway, I think I shall keep purposely posting in the "old yabs" Olney thread just to keep it at or near the top constantly. The thing that bothers me the most over there where that thread is concerned is that the new mods seem to be taking the "what's the big deal with it?" attitude in why it's VERY important to some. To them, IMO, it's just a thread to bad mouth Olney and not one to let people know about him.

[Gail Simone]

If you're not a freelancer, if you've never had someone insult you after cheating you of your livelihood, or you didn't live through any of Olney at his worst during the long days of that thread, I can understand not seeing its importance.

But if you got the letters from cheated freelancers, retailers, and others, or you read the posts from people who WOULD have been cheated if they hadn't seen the thread, then it's not so easy to be such a dick about it.

[Gail Simone]

Oh, my god, now we get lectured by Omar?

OMAR?

The guy who has been trying for over a decade to paint John Byrne as Hitler every time the guy opens his mouth?


Sheesh, if I were an uninvolved observer, I think I'd vote for it to stay open just because the biggest jerks Yabs ever had want it closed!

[Kevin T Brown]

Oh, my god, now we get lectured by Omar?

OMAR?

The guy who has been trying for over a decade to paint John Byrne as Hitler every time the guy opens his mouth?


Sheesh, if I were an uninvolved observer, I think I'd vote for it to stay open just because the biggest jerks Yabs ever had want it closed!

I bluntly said that if anyone should have the right to shut it down, it's you, Gail. I also suspect the mods will eventually just do away with it because it's too much of a headache for them now.



ETA: You also gotta "love" CBR rick's comment, too.
And really I want to be clear here, because while there is no denying that Gail and I ever much liked each other, I do have some respect for her, but Gail is not the be all and end all of YABS and never has been.

Guess he forget where the YABS part came from....

[Gail Simone]

I don't care if they shut it down, if it's going to just be Comm, Jr. The mods have a tough job.

But I made the case in the back room that it should be Yabsers modding the board, and was quickly set upon by a bunch of mods who have nothing to do with Yabs, and some who actively resent it, and a couple that are the reason I left.

So they chose people who aren't Yabsers. And while I like both those guys, I think that maybe was a mistake on my part.

HOWEVER.

I think separating out the thread itself with a new thread ABOUT the disagreements was a damn fine idea, and I applaud the mods for thinking of it. That's the kind of wisdom I never had as a mod and why I sucked at it. I always just tackled stuff head on with no diplomacy and no tact, and nine times out of ten, I handled stuff badly.

So the way they handled this gives me some hope. The way people who have loathed Yabs for years have dropped in to express their displeasure is not surprising. I wanted the forum to remain open solely because I felt bad about the Yabsers left behind.

If it gets too obnoxious, then I would understand closing it down. I don't think folding it into the comm board is a good idea for anyone.

[t.c.johnson]

I don't care if they shut it down, if it's going to just be Comm, Jr. The mods have a tough job.

But I made the case in the back room that it should be Yabsers modding the board, and was quickly set upon by a bunch of mods who have nothing to do with Yabs, and some who actively resent it, and a couple that are the reason I left.

So they chose people who aren't Yabsers. And while I like both those guys, I think that maybe was a mistake on my part.


Don't like the regulars at YABS much, do they?

[Gail Simone]

It's a long story, and I don't really want to import that stuff, we're having to much fun here. I am happy to leave that behind, I just don't want the remaining yabsers to get steamrolled.

[MacQuarrie]

I don't care if they shut it down, if it's going to just be Comm, Jr. The mods have a tough job.
I think that it's actually going to become the widescreen version of "Rita's," the random nonsense chitchat thread on the Community Forum. Ironic, in that Rita's is (a) the locus of all complaints about YABS and the Olney Thread; (b) the favored hangout of most of the recent YABS immigrants; and (c) one of the most obnoxious and tacky threads on CBR, hangout of some of the most obnoxious people at CBR, and a total pot/kettle situation if ever there was one. Rita's is the reason I left CBR.

Which is also ironic, because it's my fault that Rita's exists at all.

[OzBat!]

But yeah, the geniuses who say, "all you need to do is post the relevant facts without the other stuff," are fucking idiots. There are a hundred scumbag deadbeat stories in the last few years of comics, and who remembers them?

The people involved and their friends, with a few exceptions.

The Olney thread would not have lasted if it was just, "here's what Rick did, he cheated these people." It wouldn't have stayed on the front page for three days, with the traffic Yabs generates. It was the oddball stuff that Rick did, and the social stuff, that kept that thread going for five + years. It would have been forgotten half a decade ago, if these geniuses had had their way.

And in that five years, Rick would have been forgotten, and would have been allowed to cheat god knows how many people.

That thread brought some of comics biggest names to cbr. It had people like Mike Netzer, Paul Smith, Colleen Doran, Tony Isabella, Kurt Busiek, James Owen, and Mark Waid making people aware of the danger of working for people like Rick, or even attending their fake conventions, or getting involved in any way. If we'd followed CBR Rick's advice, NONE of that would have happened. NONE.
Welp, since I just put my hand up on CBR on this exact topic before coming over here, I should probably say something, that something being I don't agree. Not exactly.

I think the people saying that the thread degenerated frequently to the same level of crassness as Olney himself, were right on many occasions. I argued against that often. I fell prey to the same impulses, quite a few times. Was I conflicted? hells yeah, and when we had the same problems with the non-moderated political threads, that's why I stood down. It was eroding me emotionally, and on top of my own personal problems, I couldn't continue dealing with that crap.

Would the thread have disappeared if we kept straight to facts? I don't think so. As you said, Olney was still trying to scam people just a couple of months ago, and you keep getting letters and emails with distressing regularity. Just posting the contents of those where allowed would have kept the thread rolling along with no trouble at all. On that basis, we didn't need to keep descending to his level. Anger doesn't generate facts. Facts are Facts and are plenty damning all on their own, it's the facts that generate the anger, not the other way around.

In fact, without gail's updates and letters and emails, the YABS Olney thread is basically going to have nothing left except the anger and mocking. Either that, or reposts from the information you drop here. If that's all it's got left, then that's another argument against keeping it stickied. Nothing except the worst of ourselves on display all the time? No thanks.

I think the Unscrewed information should be stickied to the top of the page, front and centre, 'cause that's where the GOOD stuff happened. It's also got MacQ and Charles' awesome work summarising the facts from the Olney threads, so people don't have to go through them to understand what happened. And people can quickly find information on how to help OTHER artists and writers stiffed by other publishers. That work is the true legacy of the Olney threads, and in contrast to the threads themselves, is the best of us. The people doing that work, like Tom Stillwell and Crowley who deserved to be lauded and I think the Unscrewed thread is far more valuable in that regard. Their work gets lost in all the vitriol of the other thread.

But the Olney threads themselves, if they slip from the front page because they weren't stickied and gail isn't there to continue posting news as she receives it from more Olney orphans, then it should be allowed to. Heck, given Olney's particular fascination with gail, I expect all the fun and games will move to this thread. Plenty of people from YABS can't or won't come here, and I won't be here regularly, but I don't think that fact in and of itself is justification enough to sticky the threads to the top of the old YABS board.

Thems my thoughts, such as they are.

[MacQuarrie]

I think the Unscrewed information should be stickied to the top of the page, front and centre, 'cause that's where the GOOD stuff happened. It's also got MacQ and Crowley's awesome work summarising the facts from the Olney threads, so people don't have to go through them to understand what happened.

Credit where due department: Crowley is the Treasurer, a key part of UNSCREWED, and doing a great job, but the heavy lifting on the Olney thread index was done by Charles RB. I did a tiny fraction of it.

[OzBat!]

Sorry, you are correct. My brain makes those kinds of mis-connections with alarming regularity. It was Charles who did the heavy lifting with the summaries.

But you did start them, kicking off a herculean task. Credit where credit is due, and edited into my post above.

[Gail Simone]

Nice to see you, oz. But no way would that thread have lasted six years. No way. How long did the Pat Lee and Devil's Due threads last, or the other threads about deadbeats that even I have forgotten?

I know how the threads go. There is not a chance in hell it'd last two months, let alone six years.

I don't get the big deal about the unmoderated threads is. I never read the political thread because it looked like a hell pit.

And we're out of cbr, they can run it how they want.

[OzBat!]

In the end, that's all that matters. I'm not in a vested position to enforce anything, so all I have is my opinion, such as it is.

[Gail Simone]

Fair enough!

But I think the singularity of the thread speaks for itself. There's no other deadbeat warning thread with a hundredth of its staying power anywhere on any comics website, period.

[Gail Simone]

You know, I just don't really care that much what happens over there any more. I left for good reason, nearly everyone I really liked is over here as well.
If they post there, too, great. If the remaining posters are still happy there, it's no longer my concern, really.

It's weird to get lectured on tact by some of these people, because they were TREMENDOUS asspains the whole time they were at Yabs, I constantly had to deal with people asking for them to be banned. But every time I look, I find I care a lot less.

I wasn't having any fun at CBR, at least not on most boards. Here, I'm having a blast. Dealing with this stuff, even hearing about it, is like constantly revisiting an annoying ex that you outgrew years ago.

I'm just frankly delighted those people didn't make the transfer, to be honest. Let them do what they want over there. If the remaining Yabsers want, they are welcome here, or they'll adapt, or they'll leave. Everyone will be okay in the end.

[HamsterRage]

I still like CBR... I just don't like what's being done to "NuYABs" right now and I don't think the mods are to blame. I like Perry and BB just fine. I blame other posters with axes to grind.

[Kevin T Brown]

I still like CBR... I just don't like what's being done to "NuYABs" right now and I don't think the mods are to blame. I like Perry and BB just fine. I blame other posters with axes to grind.

Welllllll... I don't know the 2 new mods at all, but I think part of the blame can be attributed to them. Instead of asking people to not grind axes, they've encouraged it with that new olney thread. Instead of asking people (who were basically non-YABSers until recently) to just chill, they've stoked the fire a tad.

[Reverend Smooth]

I like this board's vibe a lot better so far.

What made me really like Gail was how she was willing to take on Olney, and stand up to his threats and the people telling her not to rock the boat. That's why I ended up sticking around YABS, because I like people like that.

That she's a good writer is a bonus. As a creator and as a person, she earned my respect. I'm just some random internet asshole, I know, but in my own little nonentity corner of the universe, that's what she did.

No matter what's happened since then, disagreements or no or whatever, her act of standing up to a guy who bullied and abused and preyed on others' fears, she'll always have my respect for that. That she didn't, and the people who stood up with her didn't, always play nice doesn't diminish my respect for it.

If some milquetoasts want to poohpooh that (despite them having been just as nasty on various occasions, and I could certainly quote plenty of 'em), big deal! So what! Who made these folks the moral authority on when it's acceptable to be disgusted at lying, greedy bastards, and how one should be?

It was Gail's board, if she -- or the mods she chose -- had no issue with it, then respect that and leave that thread alone. People didn't, though. CBR Rick just had to get his final digs in.

[Bouncing Boy]

I didn't like the swipe bouncing boy took at Mac, either.

My comment was not intended as a swipe. I had hoped that would have been made clear by the fact that I also said in that post that he was a very funny guy (which is a sincere compliment).


In fairness, I believe that Mark and MacQ know each other fairly well, and I took that as a sarcastic poke.

I'm waiting to see if MacQ is upset before I judge.

It really wasn't meant to be sarcastic either, it was more of an acknowledgement of the fact that since I've known Jim (which has been about 12 years) he has a tendency to respond to jokes as if they were serious. This isn't a bad thing, I do it myself sometimes.


If it's the comment about me not getting jokes on the internet, that's pretty true. My general policy is to take things at face value online; I often miss sarcasm, ironic intent and sardonic comments due to lack of facial expression, attitude and tone of voice, especially with people I don't know well.

That, and I am of the opinion that jokes are supposed to be funny. If somebody's comment isn't funny, why would anyone assume it's a joke?

I also am of the opinion that "many a true word is said in jest." If somebody posts a "joking" question about forum rules, the question should still be answered directly, as if the question were asked in good faith, simply for the benefit of other, newer members, and also to shut down that line of "comedy" before others join in to see where the boundary is actually located. Since I was passing through, I decided to go ahead and answer it.

This is a really good sum up of the reason that I made the comment in the first place.


All right, my apologies to Bouncing Boy, and if Mac is okay with it, so am I. So moving onwards!

Thank you and I accept your apology.

[bert]

Welllllll... I don't know the 2 new mods at all, but I think part of the blame can be attributed to them. Instead of asking people to not grind axes, they've encouraged it with that new olney thread. Instead of asking people (who were basically non-YABSers until recently) to just chill, they've stoked the fire a tad.

BOTH are good people.

seriously.

and you know I tell the truth.

I would do anything either Mark or Perry (or Rallura or Dawn -- thier wives respectively) asked of me if it's within my power.

they are good people, and are trying to leave enough alone while taking on a tough moderating job.

I do think they are in a very delicate situation, as neither posted very often on "old" YABS (although both did post occasionally), so I thnk they are at a disadvantage on being able to tell who is coming in now and "rubbing salt in the wound with glee".

And heck, to be honest, both of them post on mulitple boards at CBR, and I certainly can't expect them to look at a posters name and recall which board they mainly post on, or which board they mainly complain about while posting on other boards.

so yeah.. . I think the BB & Perry are doing great so far -- and I agree with Gail in her comment that the breaking out of discussion from within the Olney thread was a brilliant move. it really was.

does it mean I agree with the "unstikking"? nope. I truly believe that warning thread should remain at the top of the board, as it has become part of the YABS identity.

but they're the new mods, and YABS is changing, and I guess it is what it is.

but kudos to Mark and Perry to trying to do what's right.

(and regardless of what anyone thinks, they are trying to compromise and do what's right).

[Donald M.]

I intend for this to be the only post I ever make to this forum, so I'll try to make it a good one.

Me, I'm nobody. Just a sad jerk with no life and a desperate desire to be accepted that has led me to make some ill advised posts both on and about the YABS forum after picking up on the anti-YABS vibe amongst a small number of vocal posters. Truth is, prior to that I thought YABS was just the Gail Simone board, never imagined it was a thriving community all its own and never gave it much thought. It was frankly ridiculous and more than a little tacky of me to pick up on and run with the small current of anti-YABS sentiment that exists. I once even got directly into it with Gail for a brief moment and I think back on that incident with embarrassment. It doesn't reflect well on me this behavior and I'm resolving from this moment to try to put it behind me and be a better person and a better poster over on CBR. We'll see if that lasts.

Like I said, I'm nobody and I doubt many, if any of you recognize my name or care what I have to say, but I do sincerely apologize to you all if I've caused any offense or even if I haven't. Consider this a blanket apology for anything I may or may not have done.

I see that all of you, including Gail - perhaps especially Gail - seem to be happy here in your new digs and I really am glad to see it. You all deserve to be happy and I hope that happiness continues into perpetuity. There's probably not much chance of that of course, but that's life.

Anyway, I've take more of your time than I intended and have said probably more than I intended to say, so I'll just finish up with the sentiment that inspired me to register in order to make this one and only post:

No one (Well hardly anyone, maybe one or two people.) is talking about this new forum or what's going on here over at CBR. We're not giving it much thought to be honest and the discussion of CBR here doesn't reflect especially well on this new/old community.

I know, I can barely see to pluck the splinter from your eye with the log wedged in mine, but I say this as a suggestion, with the best intentions and with the realization that I can't tell anyone how to act or what to discuss; you've all moved on, so please move on. For all intents and purposes this is YABS now, you all seem to like it here and I'm happy for you. The people who stayed behind for whatever reason, who don't want to join these boards, they've got to deal with the mess that's been left behind. All of you, it's not your problem any more. Though what I think doesn't really matter, I think the sooner you all leave this behind you, the better it will reflect on you all as a community.

What do I know, I'm an asshole, that I admit. Just my two cents, for what little it's worth.

[sk716]

And this is exactly the kind of thing that I didn't want.

[bert]

I intend for this to be the only post I ever make to this forum, so I'll try to make it a good one.

Me, I'm nobody. Just a sad jerk with no life and a desperate desire to be accepted that has led me to make some ill advised posts both on and about the YABS forum after picking up on the anti-YABS vibe amongst a small number of vocal posters. Truth is, prior to that I thought YABS was just the Gail Simone board, never imagined it was a thriving community all its own and never gave it much thought. It was frankly ridiculous and more than a little tacky of me to pick up on and run with the small current of anti-YABS sentiment that exists. I once even got directly into it with Gail for a brief moment and I think back on that incident with embarrassment. It doesn't reflect well on me this behavior and I'm resolving from this moment to try to put it behind me and be a better person and a better poster over on CBR. We'll see if that lasts.

Like I said, I'm nobody and I doubt many, if any of you recognize my name or care what I have to say, but I do sincerely apologize to you all if I've caused any offense or even if I haven't. Consider this a blanket apology for anything I may or may not have done.

I see that all of you, including Gail - perhaps especially Gail - seem to be happy here in your new digs and I really am glad to see it. You all deserve to be happy and I hope that happiness continues into perpetuity. There's probably not much chance of that of course, but that's life.

Anyway, I've take more of your time than I intended and have said probably more than I intended to say, so I'll just finish up with the sentiment that inspired me to register in order to make this one and only post:

No one (Well hardly anyone, maybe one or two people.) is talking about this new forum or what's going on here over at CBR. We're not giving it much thought to be honest and the discussion of CBR here doesn't reflect especially well on this new/old community.

I know, I can barely see to pluck the splinter from your eye with the log wedged in mine, but I say this as a suggestion, with the best intentions and with the realization that I can't tell anyone how to act or what to discuss; you've all moved on, so please move on. For all intents and purposes this is YABS now, you all seem to like it here and I'm happy for you. The people who stayed behind for whatever reason, who don't want to join these boards, they've got to deal with the mess that's been left behind. All of you, it's not your problem any more. Though what I think doesn't really matter, I think the sooner you all leave this behind you, the better it will reflect on you all as a community.

What do I know, I'm an asshole, that I admit. Just my two cents, for what little it's worth.

I do hope you see this Donald (yeah, I do know you :)).

you're missing an important thing from your above comment.

at least to ME it's imoportant.

not everyone that was part of the YABS family left.

YABS was more than just Gail -- it was a community. and some of that Community chose not to make the move (for whatever reasons).

So the suggestion go "move on" isn't a valid one for folks like me.

"Move on" means never going to the CBR YABS board again. Never seeing my friends who stayed there again. I want to be able to go see my friends and not feel like an outsider.

it's nobody's "fault":

Gail chose to move
Many followed her
some stayed
new folks moved in

but yeah. . I can't just "move on" and pretend I never was there, especially since some I consider friends ONLY post on the CBR YABS.

I appreciate the thought you put into your post, I really do.

but hopefully you can understand what I'm trying to get across as to why I (I can only talk about myself, but I expect I likely speak on behalf of others) are having a problem.

Respectively,
bert

[Donald M.]

Out of respect for bert and his well reasoned response, I'll break my promise and make one more post.

When I say move on, I don't mean forget about YABS and never post there again, I mean don't talk about it here.

That's just a suggestion though, obviously I can't tell anyone what to do and wouldn't presume to.

[Gail Simone]

My comment was not intended as a swipe. I had hoped that would have been made clear by the fact that I also said in that post that he was a very funny guy (which is a sincere compliment).



It really wasn't meant to be sarcastic either, it was more of an acknowledgement of the fact that since I've known Jim (which has been about 12 years) he has a tendency to respond to jokes as if they were serious. This isn't a bad thing, I do it myself sometimes.



This is a really good sum up of the reason that I made the comment in the first place.



Thank you and I accept your apology.


No worries, I know you guys are in a tough spot.

One of the reasons I felt it should be yabsers is to avoid this stuff, which was obviously going to come no matter who got picked, but the other mods, some of whom have had a problem with Yabs for years, sort of threw in their votes and I didn't want to push it.

I knew Brandon would pick someone fairly so I just asked him to do it. But I wish they'd picked at least one Yabser, to be honest. It would have been much smoother.

[Gail Simone]

I like this board's vibe a lot better so far.

What made me really like Gail was how she was willing to take on Olney, and stand up to his threats and the people telling her not to rock the boat. That's why I ended up sticking around YABS, because I like people like that.

That she's a good writer is a bonus. As a creator and as a person, she earned my respect. I'm just some random internet asshole, I know, but in my own little nonentity corner of the universe, that's what she did.

No matter what's happened since then, disagreements or no or whatever, her act of standing up to a guy who bullied and abused and preyed on others' fears, she'll always have my respect for that. That she didn't, and the people who stood up with her didn't, always play nice doesn't diminish my respect for it.

If some milquetoasts want to poohpooh that (despite them having been just as nasty on various occasions, and I could certainly quote plenty of 'em), big deal! So what! Who made these folks the moral authority on when it's acceptable to be disgusted at lying, greedy bastards, and how one should be?

It was Gail's board, if she -- or the mods she chose -- had no issue with it, then respect that and leave that thread alone. People didn't, though. CBR Rick just had to get his final digs in.


I appreciate it, Rev.

The naysayers are just not being honest, or they are uninformed. To see the vitriol unleashed on the latest issue of SNOT MONKEY ADVENTURES as if that really MEANS anything is hilarious, and there are thousands of posts just that trivial.

The Olney thread had some angry posts on it. Big deal. It accomplished more good than a year of posts on any other comics board I am aware of.

And people talking like we constantly went after Rick's family are just showing their ignorance. We have repeatedly asked people NOT to do that, there and here. A few slipped through in six years. If you can't make your point without lying, then don't bother making your point.

Here are the facts. Olney had been ripping people off for YEARS before we stood up to him. YEARS. And he was still trying to cheat two industry legends as recently as TWO MONTHS AGO. So the people who say the thread's work is done, the point has been made, don't have a clue what they're talking about.

I'm not mad at reasonable people saying they didn't like the thread in civil fashion. But some of these people had nothing to do with Yabs, and the idea that THIS thread, that accomplished useful, important things, is more vile than some of the idiotic hateful nonsense that goes on every single day, is just oddball. And I care a great deal less what non-Yabsers say. They are non-participants, and several of them have been holding a grudge for years (and if this doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't apply to you. It's not a blanket statement).

And I say again, I am no fan of CBR Rick. He has been an utter jerk, and sometimes far worse, over and over, and I'm delighted he didn't come here. I really should have banned him permanently for the trans-bashing comments alone and the board would have been better without him. But he is NOT a hypocrite. Of this group, he's the only one who made these same opinions known regularly (if a bit hilariously) many times in the past.

But truthfully, I'm sick of the whole thing. I haven't made any effort to let people know the thread has moved here. If it's that big a headache for them, I don't care if they close it and we just let people know the place to post Olney news is here.

Leaving CBR was the best thing I've done in ages. I am vastly more happy and having a great time and I don't want this anchor dragging me back.
When I left, I felt I had two choices. One was close yabs, which would mean all the Yabsers left behind would have to go to another CBR board or leave entirely, which seemed unfair. Or keep it open, knowing this would happen to some degree.

But I hate it. I'm not enjoying it, it's spoiling a much nicer atmosphere here and it's keeping Yabs from being a nice place itself.

So what do we do?

What are your suggestions?

Bouncing Boy kindly came to visit. We might as well see if we can work something out once and for all.

What would make everyone happy? Let's fix it, instead of continuing this.

[Bouncing Boy]

No worries, I know you guys are in a tough spot.

One of the reasons I felt it should be yabsers is to avoid this stuff, which was obviously going to come no matter who got picked, but the other mods, some of whom have had a problem with Yabs for years, sort of threw in their votes and I didn't want to push it.

I knew Brandon would pick someone fairly so I just asked him to do it. But I wish they'd picked at least one Yabser, to be honest. It would have been much smoother.

Um, I am a YABSer, or at least consider myself as such. I wasn't a huge poster before I became mod but I posted there more than I did at the Comm board. I posted several threads at YABS, including threads about the plays I've gotten in, a thread about how I came out as bi to my Mom, and threads about my Grandma getting sick and dying and my Step-Dad getting sick and dying. I also posted in several other threads.

[HamsterRage]

I say close her up. YABS is now here.

They want it to become part of COMM so badly... fine let it happen and let them fight amongst themselves and create a new in board CBR enemy.

[Gail Simone]

I intend for this to be the only post I ever make to this forum, so I'll try to make it a good one.

Me, I'm nobody. Just a sad jerk with no life and a desperate desire to be accepted that has led me to make some ill advised posts both on and about the YABS forum after picking up on the anti-YABS vibe amongst a small number of vocal posters. Truth is, prior to that I thought YABS was just the Gail Simone board, never imagined it was a thriving community all its own and never gave it much thought. It was frankly ridiculous and more than a little tacky of me to pick up on and run with the small current of anti-YABS sentiment that exists. I once even got directly into it with Gail for a brief moment and I think back on that incident with embarrassment. It doesn't reflect well on me this behavior and I'm resolving from this moment to try to put it behind me and be a better person and a better poster over on CBR. We'll see if that lasts.

Like I said, I'm nobody and I doubt many, if any of you recognize my name or care what I have to say, but I do sincerely apologize to you all if I've caused any offense or even if I haven't. Consider this a blanket apology for anything I may or may not have done.

I see that all of you, including Gail - perhaps especially Gail - seem to be happy here in your new digs and I really am glad to see it. You all deserve to be happy and I hope that happiness continues into perpetuity. There's probably not much chance of that of course, but that's life.

Anyway, I've take more of your time than I intended and have said probably more than I intended to say, so I'll just finish up with the sentiment that inspired me to register in order to make this one and only post:

No one (Well hardly anyone, maybe one or two people.) is talking about this new forum or what's going on here over at CBR. We're not giving it much thought to be honest and the discussion of CBR here doesn't reflect especially well on this new/old community.

I know, I can barely see to pluck the splinter from your eye with the log wedged in mine, but I say this as a suggestion, with the best intentions and with the realization that I can't tell anyone how to act or what to discuss; you've all moved on, so please move on. For all intents and purposes this is YABS now, you all seem to like it here and I'm happy for you. The people who stayed behind for whatever reason, who don't want to join these boards, they've got to deal with the mess that's been left behind. All of you, it's not your problem any more. Though what I think doesn't really matter, I think the sooner you all leave this behind you, the better it will reflect on you all as a community.

What do I know, I'm an asshole, that I admit. Just my two cents, for what little it's worth.

Donald, I don't know you, I know you did say some nasty stuff about Yabs a while back but other than that, I don't remember us having an argument at all.

First, let me say, wow, I hope you don't feel like this all the time. Your opinion matters of COURSE and sensible words are always welcome. There's no class system here...please don't put yourself down like that, you seem a perfectly decent fellow and you also seem to have a kind, intelligent streak and as far as I'm concerned that makes you a formidable figure.

Second, well, it's not really true that this stuff isn't being spoken about at cbr, or that there's much talk about CBR here. If you'll look, there are a total of two threads, out of hundreds of threads and thousands of posts, where CBR is really mentioned. If those are the only threads you read, you get a distorted view of the place. And both of those threads are in reaction to changes on the Yabs board, which was our board and our place to hang for ten years. It seems fairly natural to talk about it among friends, at least a little bit.

Some are a little peeved over what they perceive as some slights. I think they're just growing pains for the most part, I want the new mods to succeed and I want the Yabs orphans to still have a nice place to go. Other than that, I don't care much, I'm happy to leave most of that stuff behind.

I have not bashed Jonah or CBR and don't intend to. And there are few comments here, and I think they are pretty focused on specific issues.

It's not exactly Hatfields and McCoys. ;)

[Gail Simone]

Um, I am a YABSer, or at least consider myself as such. I wasn't a huge poster before I became mod but I posted there more than I did at the Comm board. I posted several threads at YABS, including threads about the plays I've gotten in, a thread about how I came out as bi to my Mom, and threads about my Grandma getting sick and dying and my Step-Dad getting sick and dying. I also posted in several other threads.

Respectfully, BB, then I'm a Rumbler and a Comm member and a Batboard member...I have a terrible memory for handles as I have whined about at length but I meant someone who posted often.

I have no beef with you, honest to god. I do NOT want you guys to have additional headaches on account of me, and for my part, I want to just enjoy this board and avoid stale drama.

So what do we do?

[Gail Simone]

I am gonna go over and see if we can fix stuff a little.

But this is the last time I want to do this, everyone, so please, let's just work it out, okay?

[bert]

I am gonna go over and see if we can fix stuff a little.

But this is the last time I want to do this, everyone, so please, let's just work it out, okay?

I honestly think that will just make it worse.

You should stay above it, and just let it work itself out, which it eventually will.

:surrend:

[Gail Simone]

Eh, everyone said that about the X-boards and talking with them made a big difference. It wasn't a fix-all, but they were mostly very nice about it and tensions went down hugely.

Sometimes people rise to the challenge. Most of these people are still good people, bert.

[Jim Ritchey]

I think the contention is pretty much dead over there (CBR Rick's relentless repetition of bizarre beliefs about the Olney thread in the face of reality is doing the work for me), and I'm actually enjoying exchanges with a couple of the new guys (Donald is pretty cool!).

There are people I love still on both boards, so i'll divide my free time, I guess--which I'm about ta not have very much of. Back to my old tricks (RE: See Accidental Comic Book Art and Writing Hobby).

(CBR) Rick and I have never liked each other, but I've made ALL of my points, so I'm jus' gonna settle down to the business of being civil.

[HamsterRage]

deleted

[MacQuarrie]

A few points...

1. Donald is cool. I've always thought he was reasonable and civil even when we disagreed. His coming here to set things right is a very classy move.

2. CBR Rick can be a decent sort, when he's not worked up about politics or whatever wild hair is irritating him. He's a tenacious SOB, and that ability to never let anything drop got him banned for a couple of years once. I don't dislike him, but I really hate the way he gets when he's wound up about something. And I do think it's not his place to be self-appointed spokesperson for YABS. Frankly, that title ought to go to The4thPip, a guy I clashed with a lot at one time, but whom I have come to respect greatly in the last few years.

3. I think Bouncing Boy and Perry were very good "political" choices; they both have an established presence on YABS, but not a strong enough one to be linked to the forum as one of "those people"; they are favorably disposed toward the board, but also well-liked on several other boards. Both are smart, polite, reasonable people with incredible patience, both have been good Mods in the past. They are a good compromise pick; there's nobody who can point to either of them and say "this guy should NOT be Mod." I like both of them and hope they do well at a thoroughly thankless task.

[Bouncing Boy]

Gail, thank you for that post on YABS, it was really nice and well thought out and hopefully will help.

[Gail Simone]

No worries, bb, i think everyone will settle after a while, but I don't want to add to the complexity of it.


Everyone, I'm going to make a request that we all, myself included, not bring bad stuff from other voards over, not perpetuate stuff.

It's a ton of fun here, that's all I care about. Cool?

[bert]

No worries, bb, i think everyone will settle after a while, but I don't want to add to the complexity of it.


Everyone, I'm going to make a request that we all, myself included, not bring bad stuff from other voards over, not perpetuate stuff.

It's a ton of fun here, that's all I care about. Cool?

vat's a "voard"?

are you a vamp from vansylvania?

http://www.best-horror-movies.com/images/vamp-horror-movie-poster.jpg

[sk716]

Pulled discussion of the Other Olney thread out of the current Olney thread.

As I mentioned in that thread, it has enough drama all by itself.

[HamsterRage]

the mods made a very fair compromise at CBR in re-sticking the Unscrewed thread to the top of NuYABS

[Donald M.]

"Just when I thought I was out . . . they pull me back in."

Heh.

Seriously, Gail's vary nice post over on YABS inspired me to take another look back over here. I wanted to clarify that the "argument" between us I alluded to earlier wasn't so much an argument as me saying something nasty to her and her reasonable response prompting me to immediately apologize. I came away from that exchange with a lot of respect for her.

To MacQuarrie, I'm honestly humbled by your kind words. I really am sorry you felt the need to leave CBR behind. I do think you made too much of that whole thing with Helix who is absolutely an acquired taste, but it's your right to get angry.

As to the Comm/YABS rivalry, despite my small contribution to it I honestly think that there are people on both sides who made of it and continue to make of it more than it ever really was and I hope you all can eventually leave it all behind once you've settled in here.

I do think some of you are taking rick's words out of context or misunderstanding him - the sexual assault thing for example - but he's a strong personality and I don't blame anyone for not liking him. The man's had an incredible life, has some incredible stories and can be hella fun when he's not off on some weird crusade.

[HamsterRage]

"Just when I thought I was out . . . they pull me back in."

Heh.

Seriously, Gail's vary nice post over on YABS inspired me to take another look back over here. I wanted to clarify that the "argument" between us I alluded to earlier wasn't so much an argument as me saying something nasty to her and her reasonable response prompting me to immediately apologize. I came away from that exchange with a lot of respect for her.

To MacQuarrie, I'm honestly humbled by your kind words. I really am sorry you felt the need to leave CBR behind. I do think you made too much of that whole thing with Helix who is absolutely an acquired taste, but it's your right to get angry.

As to the Comm/YABS rivalry, despite my small contribution to it I honestly think that there are people on both sides who made of it and continue to make of it more than it ever really was and I hope you all can eventually leave it all behind once you've settled in here.

I do think some of you are taking rick's words out of context or misunderstanding him - the sexual assault thing for example - but he's a strong personality and I don't blame anyone for not liking him. The man's had an incredible life, has some incredible stories and can be hella fun when he's not off on some weird crusade.
There's nothing to take out of context Donald... Rick doesn't believe that yanking a woman's shirt down is sexual assault. He stated that very fact in a thread. I'm done with that guy. I've reported his PM's along with his wall post he made to me at CBR. Fuck him.

[MacQuarrie]

To MacQuarrie, I'm honestly humbled by your kind words. I really am sorry you felt the need to leave CBR behind. I do think you made too much of that whole thing with Helix who is absolutely an acquired taste, but it's your right to get angry.
Maybe I did. It might have been less aggravating if one person had spoken up in my defense at some point. The overall message was that I had no friends there and no business feeling insulted; that I should just take it and smile.

Since I usually feel like I'm intruding and don't really belong, I took the hint.

I didn't feel the need to leave CBR behind; I felt that I was no longer welcome on the Community Forum, so I was going to confine myself to YABS, where I did feel welcome and part of the group, and then when the forum moved here, I went with it.

Nobody has asked me to stay. Nobody has called the douchebag on his behavior. So fuck 'em.

[Donald M.]

There's nothing to take out of context Donald... Rick doesn't believe that yanking a woman's shirt down is sexual assault. He stated that very fact in a thread. I'm done with that guy. I've reported his PM's along with his wall post he made to me at CBR. Fuck him.

Well, I admit I didn't read the entire thread, but under the circumstances I do think it's a little strong to call what happened sexual assault. It was a violation absolutely and shouldn't have happened, but the victim in that situation certainly could have handled it better. Not waiting years to do anything about it for one, and not going after the woman who actually yanked down her shirt for another.

Of course this isn't really the place for that discussion, so to end on a vaguely on-topic note I'll say that Joe Francis almost makes Rick Olney look like a decent human being. Just a truly, truly scummy individual, but unfortunately one who can afford really good lawyers.

Personally I blame the people who buy his shitty DVDs. I mean come on people, it's not even good porn!

[Donald M.]

Maybe I did. It might have been less aggravating if one person had spoken up in my defense at some point. The overall message was that I had no friends there and no business feeling insulted; that I should just take it and smile.

Since I usually feel like I'm intruding and don't really belong, I took the hint.

I didn't feel the need to leave CBR behind; I felt that I was no longer welcome on the Community Forum, so I was going to confine myself to YABS, where I did feel welcome and part of the group, and then when the forum moved here, I went with it.

Nobody has asked me to stay. Nobody has called the douchebag on his behavior. So fuck 'em.

In retrospect I for one certainly could have said something in your defense, but the whole thing just seemed kind of silly to me. It honestly didn't occur to me that there was more behind your anger than just what he said and for that I'm sorry, I've never claimed to be particularly perceptive. I for one have called out Helix on his asshole behavior on at least a couple of other occasions, I'm just sorry that my failing to do so on that occasion may have contributed to your decision to leave the Comm board behind. Whatever you may feel, you do have friends there, I'm sure of it.

I do think your words regarding RITA'S as a whole are kind of harsh, but just as I can't blame anyone for not liking rick, I can't blame you not liking Helix or not liking RITA'S as a result of his acceptance there. He really isn't a bad guy, but sometimes he just needs to shut the fuck up and not give in to that instinct to post a snide comment just because he can. He's not so bad when he's not doing that, which believe it or not is most of the time these days.

[MacQuarrie]

Here's the thing: for 15 years, the #1 rule at CBR was "Don't be an asshole; you have the rest of the internet for that." That rule has been discarded.

Way back when, somebody on the Community Board coined a term: AIA -- Asshole in Anonymity. An AIA is somebody who things the cover of anonymity gives him (it's almost never a her) permission, no, encouragement, to be an abusive asshole to others, on the quite reasonable grounds that the people on the receiving end have no way of retaliating. For 15 years, AIAs were not tolerated on CBR; they were belittled, shunned, mocked and banned. That policy has also been discarded.

Anybody who treats people the way that jackass does can not be described as "not a bad guy"; he IS a bad guy. He's an asshole. The thing that's most offensive to me about Rita's is the fact that they've abandoned their principles, and now welcome and reward assholes for being assholes.

I didn't leave CBR because of him, I left because he is representative of what CBR has become.

But that has nothing to do with YABS.

[Donald M.]

First, let me say, wow, I hope you don't feel like this all the time.

No, of course not, though self-deprecation is one of my many faults and just possibly my main one.

I may have been a little hard on myself, but the sentiment remains, that I lashed out against YABS on a couple of occasions not out of any particular feeling regarding YABS but in an effort to be accepted by the "cool kids" in RITA'S and that it was absolutely wrong of me to do so.

[Donald M.]

Here's the thing: for 15 years, the #1 rule at CBR was "Don't be an asshole; you have the rest of the internet for that." That rule has been discarded.


I don't know that that's necessarily true. Helix seems to be a special case. I don't why that is, or maybe I do but I prefer not to discuss it here. Being okay most of the time doesn't really excuse the times when he's not or the fact that he seems to get clean away with stuff that would at the very least get anyone else a warning. I assume that if he is getting special treatment there's got to be a good reason for it, I respect some of the people involved too much to think otherwise, but that doesn't mean I don't sympathize with your position.

I really do think RITA'S remains a mostly pretty cool place to just hang out and shoot the shit, but I admit for the sake of my sanity that I mostly avoid the rest of CBR. Comic fans can be a strange, depressing lot.

[HamsterRage]

Well, I admit I didn't read the entire thread, but under the circumstances I do think it's a little strong to call what happened sexual assault. It was a violation absolutely and shouldn't have happened, but the victim in that situation certainly could have handled it better. Not waiting years to do anything about it for one, and not going after the woman who actually yanked down her shirt for another.

Of course this isn't really the place for that discussion, so to end on a vaguely on-topic note I'll say that Joe Francis almost makes Rick Olney look like a decent human being. Just a truly, truly scummy individual, but unfortunately one who can afford really good lawyers.

Personally I blame the people who buy his shitty DVDs. I mean come on people, it's not even good porn!

I'm not going to re-litigate that thread here, but you're wrong. Pulling a woman's top down against her will is sexual assault. That's why it's against the law.

Rick is fucking asshole and I don't care to hear his stories or have any further dealings with him other than to laugh loudly when he's inevitably banned for his shitty behavior.

As Mac said "Don't be an asshole; you have the rest of the internet for that." Rick's been an asshole for a long time and the fact that he decided to try and seize control of YABs before most of us had even registered over here speaks to how little regard he had for the community... not to mention his insults to the LGBT community.

Fuck him he's not worth discussing any further.

[Donald M.]

You know what, fine, I don't really want to get into it, let's just agree to disagree on a couple of points here. I'm aware of your position and don't blame you for it, hopefully that can be the final word on the subject. If you have anything further to say about him, hopefully it can be over there where he can defend himself. Even the biggest of assholes deserves that much, if only to give them opportunity to dig their own graves. I don't think there's much chance of him ever getting banned though.

I understand why some people feel the way they do about certain individuals and I sympathize, but I just don't have it in me to hate them or, really, anyone.

Except the guy who stole my Xbox. Fuck that guy.

[MacQuarrie]

Except the guy who stole my Xbox. Fuck that guy.

That we can all agree on. People who steal XBoxes are scum.

[Donald M.]

That we can all agree on. People who steal XBoxes are scum.

Rick Olney, Joe Francis and the guy who stole my Xbox, that's your Axis of Evil right there.

[Gail Simone]

I also don't like Carrot Top.

Guys, let me ask you kindly to wrap this up, okay? If you have stuff you have to get off your chest, okay, but then I'm hoping we leave the drama behind or put it elsewhere. This is a new place and all that stuff is why I left.

The three of you are all most welcome here and that's what matters.

[Cam63]

vat's a "voard"?

are you a vamp from vansylvania?

http://www.best-horror-movies.com/images/vamp-horror-movie-poster.jpg

Jeesh... and people rail on the Twilight neck suckers.

[Cam63]

That we can all agree on. People who steal XBoxes are scum.

Like Mike Tyson ?

[bert]

Jeesh... and people rail on the Twilight neck suckers.

you'd best back the F off a Grace Jones.

the movie can stink to high heaven, but if Grace is in it. . automatic 4 star film!

:p

[EdContradictory]

Am I a bad person because I find Internet e-drama sh!t-storms deliriously fun?

[MacQuarrie]

Am I a bad person because I find Internet e-drama sh!t-storms deliriously fun?
Yes. You are.

Personally, I'm not having any fun. I'm very sad over the whole thing, punctuated by occasional bouts of anger.

I hated having to leave CBR. It's been part of my life for a long time. I've gone to weddings for people who met there. I've worked with people I met there. My son's closest friend is someone he met at a CBR meetup. I designed the friggin' logo for the place, and a half-dozen christmas cards, I've written for the site, I've been a moderator, CBR has been a central part of my personal and professional life for almost 15 years, and it's really hard to leave it behind. I hate doing it, and I'm not enjoying the current drama in the slightest.

I'd still be there if the person who randomly attacked me for no reason had simply apologized after I said he offended me. But he didn't. At least one person told him that his insult of me was the best possible way to start the day, and that was someone I thought I was on reasonably decent terms with. As far as I know, nobody has yet told him he ought to have apologized, but several have scolded me for being offended by both the direct unprovoked attack and the benign acceptance of it by people I thought of as friends. And all of it on a thread that would not exist if I hadn't stuck my neck out to make sure it could exist.

My beef with the YABS uproar is solely that the people making the most noise about it do not have sufficient standing in the community to claim the role of spokesperson.

All of which is a long way of saying CBR has become a hostile and toxic environment for me. It may be different for others, but that's how I feel about it.

[EdContradictory]

Yes. You are.

Personally, I'm not having any fun.
I understand that, I do. And all of his victims have my sympathy, but, come on, you didn't enjoy the Photoshops some people did? Or even when he typed his first spoonerism while defending himself? When we realized what his orca squirting logo really looked like? When his Star Wars connection was debunked?

None of that?

[MacQuarrie]

I understand that, I do. And all of his victims have my sympathy, but, come on, you didn't enjoy the Photoshops some people did? Or even when he typed his first spoonerism while defending himself? When we realized what his orca squirting logo really looked like? When his Star Wars connection was debunked?

None of that?

I enjoyed all of that. The person I'm talking about is someone else entirely.

[sk716]

Everybody got it all out of their systems, now?

If you don't, too bad.

I'm locking this thread. Barring any attacks from across the seas, any thread started to slam/insult/gripe about/etc YABS or CBR will be deleted.

Now, everyone back to your regularly scheduled mayhem.

[Corrina]

Eh, everyone said that about the X-boards and talking with them made a big difference. It wasn't a fix-all, but they were mostly very nice about it and tensions went down hugely.

Sometimes people rise to the challenge. Most of these people are still good people, bert.

Yeah, actually, that did make a difference, Gail. I was skeptical, but it did.

As for rick, can't say this there because the other thread at CBR is closed but he helped fix my computer and was way cool about it, and I'm incredibly grateful for that.

And they are good people over there. Give it time and patience.