So Apparently Young Christian Men Like the Idea of the Burqa

[Stressfactor]

From the excellent Mighty God King... http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2010/08/01/what-do-sixteen-hundred-christian-boys-think-girls-should-wear-lets-find-out/

A survey of sixteen hundred Christian "Young Men" (if you can call making the upper limit of the survey 35 "young") shows that a majority of them think things like skirts above the knee (not mini-skirts mind you just skirts above the knee) are too short and even one-piece tank swimsuits are 'too sexy'.

I think I'm going to barf.

[zemo]

Sorry, but what is this supposed to be? Following the link to the source material it's quite obvious that this survey has been performed by a group that is nothing remotely close to impartial. I can assume in what kind of groups they were looking for their sixteen hundred Christian young men, and I am not impressed at the result :3

Also, 35 is actually quite young. Considering that life expectancy in industrialized countries is generally beyond 70, it's not even half of a person's lifetime. Don't believe the lies of the advertising industry!

[Stressfactor]

Sorry, but what is this supposed to be? Following the link to the source material it's quite obvious that this survey has been performed by a group that is nothing remotely close to impartial. I can assume in what kind of groups they were looking for their sixteen hundred Christian young men, and I am not impressed at the result :3

Also, 35 is actually quite young. Considering that life expectancy in industrialized countries is generally beyond 70, it's not even half of a person's lifetime. Don't believe the lies of the advertising industry!Impartial, probably not but the facts that:

A) Someone actually thought something like this up and

B) There were even a handful of people who quite possibly answered this thing truthfully

Tick me off.

It's the kind of thinking about women that STILL pervades society.

How many times has it come up in rape trials where the lawyer for the defense tries to get the rapist off by claiming that the woman "asked for it". That how a woman dresses automatically means she shares all or part of the blame in a rape because she was dressed "provocatively" and therefore she must have been "asking for it".

No, that isn't what THESE guys are saying but it's pretty much only a hop-skip-and-a jump from THIS point to the other.

And it perpetuates and encourages certain stereotypes which need to die.... with napalm. Now.

Also, having seen the infamous "Side Hug" rap do not think that these ideas are necessarily THAT unique. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/24/the-side-hug-youth-group_n_369651.html

[Karen El]

Except they don't want an actual burqa, because that would be Muslim and evil. They just want something that does the same job, for the same reason, but which is American and therefore good.

[Teal_Lantern]

Except they don't want an actual burqa, because that would be Muslim and evil. They just want something that does the same job, for the same reason, but which is American and therefore good.

Pretty much this.

[capntightpants]

Impartial, probably not but the facts that:

A) Someone actually thought something like this up and

B) There were even a handful of people who quite possibly answered this thing truthfully

Tick me off.

It's the kind of thinking about women that STILL pervades society.

How many times has it come up in rape trials where the lawyer for the defense tries to get the rapist off by claiming that the woman "asked for it". That how a woman dresses automatically means she shares all or part of the blame in a rape because she was dressed "provocatively" and therefore she must have been "asking for it".

No, that isn't what THESE guys are saying but it's pretty much only a hop-skip-and-a jump from THIS point to the other.

And it perpetuates and encourages certain stereotypes which need to die.... with napalm. Now.

Also, having seen the infamous "Side Hug" rap do not think that these ideas are necessarily THAT unique. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/24/the-side-hug-youth-group_n_369651.html

That Christian "Side Hug" rap? It's a joke. The guys who did it are a comedy sketch group.

[Jason California]

It's the kind of thinking about women that STILL pervades society.

How many times has it come up in rape trials where the lawyer for the defense tries to get the rapist off by claiming that the woman "asked for it". That how a woman dresses automatically means she shares all or part of the blame in a rape because she was dressed "provocatively" and therefore she must have been "asking for it".

l (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/24/the-side-hug-youth-group_n_369651.html)


I don't know. How often does it happen?

A lawyer should use anything he can to defend his client though right? No matter how foward thinking society gets lawyers are still going to use every trick in the book to win. I dont think it is a fair example for what you are saying.

[Stressfactor]

I don't know. How often does it happen?

A lawyer should use anything he can to defend his client though right? No matter how foward thinking society gets lawyers are still going to use every trick in the book to win. I dont think it is a fair example for what you are saying.

It's morally reprehensible.

And as for how often it happens? Quite a bit. I had a friend who sat on a Grand Jury he said it was a horrific experience but the WORST was listening to the rape cases.

If a lawyer CANNOT get their client off by using the truth and evidence then no, I don't care, I consider it slimy.

The law should be the law and not about "tricks". Defaming someone else's character because it's your last straw? It's like winning by cheating.

I've read stuff by defense lawyers and there are those who believe that everyone has a right to the "best defense" but when that "defense" goes outside the bounds of the law? When that "defense" means that you know you don't have a damn thing and so your ONLY chance is to turn the jury against the person who is the victim? That's actually a DISTRUST of the law to me.

And it still pervades things OUTSIDE the courtroom. Women get crucified in the media all the time because of the way they dress. Men don't... unless they dress like a homeless guy who's been on the streets for 10 years... but you don't see people talking about men dressing "slutty". I've seen my fair share of tight t-shirts over hardbodies and torn open shirts on guys, I've seen my fair share of tight jeans and speedos but "slutty" NEVER enters the conversation.

[Mordru]

If you added the Lea Bikini the totals would be very different.

[zemo]

Except they don't want an actual burqa, because that would be Muslim and evil. They just want something that does the same job, for the same reason, but which is American and therefore good.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6-IIXAF5HOE/SjVveZngvoI/AAAAAAAAF3s/EQ-ewU7zTf0/s400/m_Burqa_Flag.jpg

This?

[zemo]

It's morally reprehensible.

And as for how often it happens? Quite a bit. I had a friend who sat on a Grand Jury he said it was a horrific experience but the WORST was listening to the rape cases.

If a lawyer CANNOT get their client off by using the truth and evidence then no, I don't care, I consider it slimy.

The law should be the law and not about "tricks". Defaming someone else's character because it's your last straw? It's like winning by cheating.

I've read stuff by defense lawyers and there are those who believe that everyone has a right to the "best defense" but when that "defense" goes outside the bounds of the law? When that "defense" means that you know you don't have a damn thing and so your ONLY chance is to turn the jury against the person who is the victim? That's actually a DISTRUST of the law to me.

And it still pervades things OUTSIDE the courtroom. Women get crucified in the media all the time because of the way they dress. Men don't... unless they dress like a homeless guy who's been on the streets for 10 years... but you don't see people talking about men dressing "slutty". I've seen my fair share of tight t-shirts over hardbodies and torn open shirts on guys, I've seen my fair share of tight jeans and speedos but "slutty" NEVER enters the conversation.
I hope I don't sound macho for saying this, but the ones calling women slutty for what they're wearing are, at least in my experience, mainly women themselves.

Something interesting I learned a while back and that might have to do with this: There are less sucessful female comedians than male ones because women don't like to laugh about other women, it's experimentally proven. So being critical of members of their own sex seems kind of hardwired into women's brain on some level.

[Stressfactor]

Really? Because I'm a woman and over the years I've liked a number of female comedians... Phyllis Diller, Rita Rudner, Margaret Cho, Wanda Sykes...... Eddie Izzard.:lol:

[dasNdanger]

I'd wear a Burqa in a heartbeat! Wouldn't have to worry about gaining weight, or shaving my legs, or plucking my lip hair, or wearing a bra, or ANYTHING! I could be like a bag lady, UNDER the bag!

Really, I'm not kidding.

das

[SallySensational]

That Christian "Side Hug" rap? It's a joke. The guys who did it are a comedy sketch group.

Uh, no, the side hug thing is not a joke. I asked my brother about it and he said it's a real trend among youth groups (he's a Baptist pastor).

With regard to the original presentation of the rap:


The Christian Side-Hug rap comes courtesy of the Encounter Generation Conference, an annual Christian youth gathering which hopes to “bring the power, authenticity, and relevance of Jesus Christ to their culture.”

The song WAS written as a joke (http://www.stereotruth.net/2009/12/exclusive-interview-christian-side-hug-creatorrapper/), but is not being used as one. People really are convinced that "front hugs" lead to sin and are banning youth group members from hugging each other at church functions.

[Weeto]

Why is it always fat, blotchy skinned women with gross tattoos that seem to walk around with their stomach showing or their boobs hanging out?

Attractive women very rarely dress totally shamelessly, it tends to be women who THINK they look attractive.

Society should find a place between shameless semi nudity and covering up women like a valuable crystal vase at the post office.

Neither extreme option is a great idea so a sensible middle option is what should be adopted.

[Stressfactor]

Why is it always fat, blotchy skinned women with gross tattoos that seem to walk around with their stomach showing or their boobs hanging out?

Attractive women very rarely dress totally shamelessly, it tends to be women who THINK they look attractive.

Society should find a place between shameless semi nudity and covering up women like a valuable crystal vase at the post office.

Neither extreme option is a great idea so a sensible middle option is what should be adopted.Women should feel free to dress as they like really.

I mean if they want to dress in something that doesn't flatter them that should be their choice.

I would never, these days, think of a woman as a "slut" based on the way she dresses. HOWEVER, that doesn't stop me from thinking that what she's wearing may be wrong for her body type and shape, the wrong size or the wrong color... or that what she's wearing is unsuitable to the weather (I once saw a college age girl walking around in 40 degree rainy weather wearing flip-flops and all I could think of was "You're gonna get chillblains like that.") but in the end that should be her choice.

But then it should be her CHOICE -- she should dress for herself rather than what she thinks will please someone else.

[Suffering Sappho]

Some of those quotes are just creepy. :Panic:


Sisters in Christ, you really have no concept of the struggles that guys face on a daily basis. Please, please, please take a higher standard in the ways you dress. True, we men are responsible for our thoughts and actions before the Lord, but it is such a blessing when we know that we can spend time with our sisters in Christ, enjoying their fellowship without having to constantly be on guard against ungodly thoughts brought about by the inappropriate ways they sometimes dress.

And this little gem:


Yes, you can turn me on, but don’t expect me to respect you. Yes, I might find you attractive on the outside, but that won’t make me think of you as attractive on the inside. Sure you might get my attention, but it will be negative attention.

The scary thing is that it doesn't even stop at "sexy" clothing, but even stretching your arms so your chest slightly sticks out is also a big no no. Apparently, men have no self control, but women must have total control over themselves at all times? Maybe I need to stretch my arms because I'm sore or tired, if you can't keep it in your pants, that's your problem.

[Thequeerjock]

Some of those quotes are just creepy. :Panic:



And this little gem:



The scary thing is that it doesn't even stop at "sexy" clothing, but even stretching your arms so your chest slightly sticks out is also a big no no. Apparently, men have no self control, but women must have total control over themselves at all times? Maybe I need to stretch my arms because I'm sore or tired, if you can't keep it in your pants, that's your problem.

What? You don't relish the idea of wearing a big burlap sack and never moving so that you can't possibly tempt a man like the evil siren you are?

Christ, these dudes must have a heart attack anytime they got to a major city.

[DarkKnightJared]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6-IIXAF5HOE/SjVveZngvoI/AAAAAAAAF3s/EQ-ewU7zTf0/s400/m_Burqa_Flag.jpg

This?

I was going to suggest that, actually. Now if you'll excuse me, after seeing that I feel the urge to projectile vomit.

[Teal_Lantern]

I had never heard of the side hugging movement before reading this thread. Seriously, how the hell can that be real?

[ZimMan2]

Maybe instead of listening to the "Side Hug" rap, some of these guys should put they're ears up against some Voltaire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkXPyY9Wo_A

I'm serious, maybe it doesn't apply here that well, but I seriously think every Christian should hear this song.

[Tobias M]

Except they don't want an actual burqa, because that would be Muslim and evil. They just want something that does the same job, for the same reason, but which is American and therefore good.

Are we at all surprised? Fundies are fundies, no matter where you go. They tend to target women.

Gotta oppress somebody!

[Stressfactor]

I had never heard of the side hugging movement before reading this thread. Seriously, how the hell can that be real?Same way as when I was a kid my pastor told my sunday school class (a bunch of 11 year olds!) that the He-Man cartoon show (we're talking about the 1980's original here) was "bad".

I actually asked him how it could be bad since a lot of the episodes had morals to them and there was always that bit at the end that was like a little mini-PSA and his response to me was that the show was "bad" because the characters dressed in skimpy clothes.


I am seriously NOT making this up.

[Teal_Lantern]

Same way as when I was a kid my pastor told my sunday school class (a bunch of 11 year olds!) that the He-Man cartoon show (we're talking about the 1980's original here) was "bad".

I actually asked him how it could be bad since a lot of the episodes had morals to them and there was always that bit at the end that was like a little mini-PSA and his response to me was that the show was "bad" because the characters dressed in skimpy clothes.


I am seriously NOT making this up.

That is hilarious. Did he denounce Wonder Woman too?

[Stressfactor]

That is hilarious. Did he denounce Wonder Woman too?

Not that I can recall. We were talking about TV shows and he was reeling off examples of shows we shouldn't watch as 'Good Christian Young People'.

I really only remember the He-Man bit, I can't remember all these years later the other shows he listed. It was the usual stuff about avoiding sex and violence on TV.

[Teal_Lantern]

Not that I can recall. We were talking about TV shows and he was reeling off examples of shows we shouldn't watch as 'Good Christian Young People'.

I really only remember the He-Man bit, I can't remember all these years later the other shows he listed. It was the usual stuff about avoiding sex and violence on TV.

I always found those guys rather hilarious. I mean, I see little children in shorts, tank tops and bathing suits all the time, heck even in my native Pakistan, are they indecent, too?

[Thequeerjock]

Not that I can recall. We were talking about TV shows and he was reeling off examples of shows we shouldn't watch as 'Good Christian Young People'.

I really only remember the He-Man bit, I can't remember all these years later the other shows he listed. It was the usual stuff about avoiding sex and violence on TV.

I'd heard them make the "He-Man Promotes Gayness!" joke in Family Guy, but was unaware people actually thought like that in real life.

[Stressfactor]

I'd heard them make the "He-Man Promotes Gayness!" joke in Family Guy, but was unaware people actually thought like that in real life.He didn't come out and say "gay" and I'm a girl and I was the one asking the question so I guess there were also elements of being afraid that 'roided up He-Man would make girls all hot and bothered too.

But yeah, sadly I had a succession of really crappy pastors before getting one in my teens who was an ex-hippie.

But this is why I can actually believe some of the stuff that comes off of Evangelists and why I don't treat them as much of jokes. I've had some close brushes with some similar teachings so I know they're out there... and they're infecting their kids with a lot of nonsense.

[Patrick Gerard]

I always found those guys rather hilarious. I mean, I see little children in shorts, tank tops and bathing suits all the time, heck even in my native Pakistan, are they indecent, too?

Sure. The little tarts are stumbling blocks, filling your head with ungodly thoughts, right? ... Right?

[DarkKnightJared]

Sure. The little tarts are stumbling blocks, filling your head with ungodly thoughts, right? ... Right?

No no no--the correct answer is, "I used to feel that way, but ever since the conviction and the operation I feel so much better now. :D"

[Patrick Gerard]

No no no--the correct answer is, "I used to feel that way, but ever since the conviction and the operation I feel so much better now. :D"

I think some of these guys have the conviction but they haven't gone beyond the planning phase with the operation yet.

[capntightpants]

Uh, no, the side hug thing is not a joke. I asked my brother about it and he said it's a real trend among youth groups (he's a Baptist pastor).

With regard to the original presentation of the rap:



The song WAS written as a joke (http://www.stereotruth.net/2009/12/exclusive-interview-christian-side-hug-creatorrapper/), but is not being used as one. People really are convinced that "front hugs" lead to sin and are banning youth group members from hugging each other at church functions.

:Oops: Oh. I think my brain just had one of those glass shattering moments. This is horrible.

[Teal_Lantern]

Sure. The little tarts are stumbling blocks, filling your head with ungodly thoughts, right? ... Right?

*crickets*

[capntightpants]

I remember back when I was a kid and Spawn had been released as a movie. My Youth Group leader really laid it on us how evil it was.

He was partly right, though. It was evil to release a movie that bad.

[sk716]

I remember back when I was a kid and Spawn had been released as a movie. My Youth Group leader really laid it on us how evil it was.

He was partly right, though. It was evil to release a movie that bad.

Preach it, Brotha Pants!! Preach it!!!

[Stressfactor]

Oh yeah.... SATAN!!!!!

I remember that rash of hype in the late 1980's/early 1990's about all of these supposed Satanist cults that were on the rise.

People were all over Geraldo Rivera's crappy talk show and everything. All of these supposed Satanist rock groups and everything.

And let's not forget that perpetual target going all the way back to at least the 1970's.......

DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS!!!! *bum-bum-buuuuuuuuum*

For those of you who may not be familiar with Noah Antweiler A.K.A. the internet reviewer "The Spoony One" he recently did a review of the horrible "Mazes and Monsters" TV movie and really shredded it. It's great stuff. http://spoonyexperiment.com/2010/08/01/mazes-monsters/

But sadly, I lived through a lot of this hype and I've actually seen some of those Chick Tracts... and not as in on internet sites making fun of them, as in actual physical paper copies when I was a kid.

So yeah, Sex and Fantasy -- apparently the two things uptight evangelicals fear the most.

[Thequeerjock]

Oh yeah.... SATAN!!!!!

I remember that rash of hype in the late 1980's/early 1990's about all of these supposed Satanist cults that were on the rise.

People were all over Geraldo Rivera's crappy talk show and everything. All of these supposed Satanist rock groups and everything.

And let's not forget that perpetual target going all the way back to at least the 1970's.......

DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS!!!! *bum-bum-buuuuuuuuum*

For those of you who may not be familiar with Noah Antweiler A.K.A. the internet reviewer "The Spoony One" he recently did a review of the horrible "Mazes and Monsters" TV movie and really shredded it. It's great stuff. http://spoonyexperiment.com/2010/08/01/mazes-monsters/

But sadly, I lived through a lot of this hype and I've actually seen some of those Chick Tracts... and not as in on internet sites making fun of them, as in actual physical paper copies when I was a kid.

So yeah, Sex and Fantasy -- apparently the two things uptight evangelicals fear the most.

It's funny, when I used to post at the DCMB, there was a dude there who claimed to be an evangelical christian, and holy shit, you should've seen the rants he went on.

Numerous times, he went into rants about how Huntress from Birds of Prey would go to hell because she was a "Catholic whore" and how Raven from the Teen Titans was a bad influence on small children because she was "the spawn of satan", and that somehow encouraged satanic worship amongst kids watching the cartoon.:no:

[SidekicksRevenge]

I do youth camps over the summer, and all I know about the side hug is that we're encouraged to use it to stay out of creepy-touches-lead-to-lawsuits trouble, not real-hugs-make-you-fornicate-like-jackrabbits trouble.

Then again, my churching is significantly less crazy than the kinds of folks that were probably interviewed for this survey.

[Stressfactor]

It's funny, when I used to post at the DCMB, there was a dude there who claimed to be an evangelical christian, and holy shit, you should've seen the rants he went on.

Numerous times, he went into rants about how Huntress from Birds of Prey would go to hell because she was a "Catholic whore" and how Raven from the Teen Titans was a bad influence on small children because she was "the spawn of satan", and that somehow encouraged satanic worship amongst kids watching the cartoon.:no:

Unless he was a troll I'm surprised he even bothered posting.

But I guess, suposing he was actually serious, he thought he might be 'saving souls' trying to preach against the 'horrors' of eeeevviiiiillll comic book characters.

But I do wish people like that didn't really exist.

A lot of time I can forget that they do but then something like the original survey pops up and I just facepalm and think "Yeah, still out there."

[Reverend Smooth]

Oh yeah.... SATAN!!!!!

I remember that rash of hype in the late 1980's/early 1990's about all of these supposed Satanist cults that were on the rise.

People were all over Geraldo Rivera's crappy talk show and everything. All of these supposed Satanist rock groups and everything.

And let's not forget that perpetual target going all the way back to at least the 1970's.......

DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS!!!! *bum-bum-buuuuuuuuum*

For those of you who may not be familiar with Noah Antweiler A.K.A. the internet reviewer "The Spoony One" he recently did a review of the horrible "Mazes and Monsters" TV movie and really shredded it. It's great stuff. http://spoonyexperiment.com/2010/08/01/mazes-monsters/

But sadly, I lived through a lot of this hype and I've actually seen some of those Chick Tracts... and not as in on internet sites making fun of them, as in actual physical paper copies when I was a kid.

So yeah, Sex and Fantasy -- apparently the two things uptight evangelicals fear the most.

Yes, as an avid comic fan, pen and paper roleplayer, and fantasy novel enthusiast, I got screamed at on a daily basis about how I was going to hell. Students, teachers, and part of why I got sent to therapist after therapist was so that I would stop reading those devil books.

I'm not kidding. I got sent to shrinks because I read Misty and Larry's books. x.x; It was a sign of 'an antisocial, satanic' mind or influence or whatever. Those exact terms. Even though I've read enough psych books to know that's completely borked. o.O