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afroloq
03-09-2010, 08:42 AM
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.politicsdaily.com/media/2010/03/beck.jpg


Link (http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/03/08/glenn-beck-urges-listeners-to-leave-churches-that-preach-social/)

On his daily radio and television shows last week, Fox News personality Glenn Beck set out to convince his audience that "social justice," the term many Christian churches use to describe their efforts to address poverty and human rights, is a "code word" for communism and Nazism. Beck urged Christians to discuss the term with their priests and to leave their churches if leaders would not reconsider their emphasis on social justice.

"I'm begging you, your right to religion and freedom to exercise religion and read all of the passages of the Bible as you want to read them and as your church wants to preach them . . . are going to come under the ropes in the next year. If it lasts that long it will be the next year. I beg you, look for the words 'social justice' or 'economic justice' on your church Web site. If you find it, run as fast as you can. Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. Now, am I advising people to leave their church? Yes!"

Matthew Brown
03-09-2010, 08:44 AM
So he just fucks with people for fun?

DAVE
03-09-2010, 08:45 AM
I love to watch Glenn Beck when I'm high, but I have to wait for my fiancee to fall asleep first, because she won't let me. But he's really entertaining.

Blake Sims
03-09-2010, 08:45 AM
Ug

Flint66606
03-09-2010, 08:46 AM
The borderline socialism and redistribution of wealth that SOME fringe churches preach IS wrong, and they usually preach them under the buzzwords of social justice.

Matthew Brown
03-09-2010, 08:48 AM
Seriously? Charity is under fire?

DAVE
03-09-2010, 08:50 AM
The borderline socialism and redistribution of wealth that SOME fringe churches preach IS wrong, and they usually preach them under the buzzwords of social justice.

You should check out what Jesus had to say about the impoverished and the wealthy sometime.

Dan-C
03-09-2010, 08:51 AM
I gave a homeless guy my change yesterday. Am I going to hell now?


EDIT: Wait, who am I kidding? I'm jewish. We don't give people our change.

Flint66606
03-09-2010, 08:54 AM
Seriously? Charity is under fire?Hahaha yessss, charity is socialism.


You should check out what Jesus had to say about the impoverished and the wealthy sometime.Oh, I have. Why do you bring it up?


I gave a homeless guy my change yesterday. Am I going to hell now?Probably, according to christianity, but not because of that.

Ben
03-09-2010, 08:55 AM
Seriously? Charity is under fire?Hitler gave out a lot of free shelter, train rides, and showers! Just like Jesus said to do!

Matthew Brown
03-09-2010, 08:58 AM
Holy crap, Dan-C's going to hell. :o

James H
03-09-2010, 09:03 AM
I love to watch Glenn Beck when I'm high, but I have to wait for my fiancee to fall asleep first, because she won't let me. But he's really entertaining.

She won't let you get high or she won't let you watch Glenn Beck?

Nick Spencer
03-09-2010, 09:03 AM
The borderline socialism and redistribution of wealth that SOME fringe churches preach IS wrong, and they usually preach them under the buzzwords of social justice.

Nothing more fringe than the catholic church.

"Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys." - Luke 12:33

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." - Matthew 19:21

"If you have two coats," he replied, "give one to the poor. If you have extra food, give it away to those who are hungry." Luke 3:11

This does not sound like anything OTHER than socialism and the redistribution of wealth.

maverick-99
03-09-2010, 09:06 AM
But Christians preach that all people are equal, and that's essentialy Socialism, right??

Nick Spencer
03-09-2010, 09:07 AM
Oh, I have. Why do you bring it up?


Because it directly contradicts your statement.

Nick Spencer
03-09-2010, 09:08 AM
But Christians preach that all people are equal, and that's essential Socialism, right??

Christians were most certainly told to redistribute wealth, and to live communally. That's impossible to dispute, not that that stops a lot of them.

frzamonkey
03-09-2010, 09:09 AM
Oh, I have. Why do you bring it up?

because his teachings directly contradict what beck is saying.

i can give you specific quotes, if you would like.

edit: sorry, nick, i didn't see your post when i start typing mine.

DAVE
03-09-2010, 09:09 AM
She won't let you get high or she won't let you watch Glenn Beck?

She cares about me and doesn't want me to do things that are bad for me. Like watching Glenn Beck.

Adrian B AWESOME
03-09-2010, 09:10 AM
Hitler gave out a lot of free shelter, train rides, and showers! Just like Jesus said to do!

God I love Ben.

GelfXIII
03-09-2010, 09:11 AM
Glenn Beck is like a slinky

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/gelf13/slinky.jpg

Ben Weldon
03-09-2010, 09:23 AM
So how long till he goes after social networking sites, Social Sciences and ice cream socials?

James H
03-09-2010, 09:25 AM
She cares about me and doesn't want me to do things that are bad for me. Like watching Glenn Beck.

Gotcha. I figured that she was looking out for your mental health.

Jason California
03-09-2010, 09:28 AM
Beck is a Mormon right?

Marcdachamp
03-09-2010, 09:30 AM
It's amazing how some people think that everything's open to interpretation. TWO-FACE FUCKING DIED IN THE DARK KNIGHT!

...wait, what are we talking about again?

Matthew Brown
03-09-2010, 09:30 AM
Beck is a Moron right?

Sorry, you typo'd an extra letter in there.

Dreg
03-09-2010, 09:30 AM
Words on paper and chants in a building are more important than human beings? Wish I could say it's a radical idea on that channel.

MIKE D
03-09-2010, 09:33 AM
Another guy who's death will bring a smile to my face.

SidekicksRevenge
03-09-2010, 09:34 AM
Christians were most certainly told to redistribute wealth, and to live communally. That's impossible to dispute, not that that stops a lot of them.

Yeah. Biblical economic teachings are liberal as all get out. Something that every "Reagan Conservative" using the Jesus vote to get over-the-top in the south ignores on a minutely basis.

Jason California
03-09-2010, 09:34 AM
Sorry, you typo'd an extra letter in there.


I would not say that. I think he is smarter than the average bear. But with him being a Mormon he should look into the Law of Concecration.

mario
03-09-2010, 09:34 AM
The borderline socialism and redistribution of wealth that SOME fringe churches preach IS wrong, and they usually preach them under the buzzwords of social justice.

ooh, a new troll in da house!

DAVE
03-09-2010, 09:35 AM
I would not say that. I think he is smarter than the average bear.

I'll give him that.

mario
03-09-2010, 09:37 AM
I gave a homeless guy my change yesterday. Am I going to hell now?


EDIT: Wait, who am I kidding? I'm jewish. We don't give people our change.

jew-hater!!

Jason California
03-09-2010, 09:38 AM
ooh, a new troll in da house!


It is amazing to me what qualifies a person as a troll these days.

Dreg
03-09-2010, 09:40 AM
I would not say that. I think he is smarter than the average bear.

Yes, but that would still only make him slightly more intelligent than a drooling, illiterate, blundering beast of the forest.

SidekicksRevenge
03-09-2010, 09:41 AM
The thing that's killing me is that this is happening within two months of my conference of my church cutting some key positions - one of them being the person whose full time job was coordinating the NCCUMC's Social Justice efforts.

And our new Bishop is a douchebag who obviously loves to show off how much money he has....

I'm going to end up leaving the United Methodist Church in my lifetime. I can feel it. I can't express how much that sucks for me.

Jason California
03-09-2010, 09:41 AM
I knew I left that line open enough to get played with.

JimboX
03-09-2010, 09:42 AM
Nothing more fringe than the catholic church.

"Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys." - Luke 12:33

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." - Matthew 19:21

"If you have two coats," he replied, "give one to the poor. If you have extra food, give it away to those who are hungry." Luke 3:11

This does not sound like anything OTHER than socialism and the redistribution of wealth.

You're wrong, that's charity; giving to others out of your own free will. Socialism and redistribution of wealth is the government taking your money giving it to others. Can't you see the difference there?

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 09:44 AM
I would not say that. I think he is smarter than the average bear. But with him being a Mormon he should look into the Law of Concecration.

Maybe his magic underwear are chafing?

SidekicksRevenge
03-09-2010, 09:44 AM
You're wrong, that's charity; giving to others out of your own free will. Socialism and redistribution of wealth is the government taking your money giving it to others. Can't you see the difference there?

You're picking some serious nits there.

Dreg
03-09-2010, 09:44 AM
You're wrong, that's charity; giving to others out of your own free will. Socialism and redistribution of wealth is the government taking your money giving it to others. Can't you see the difference there?

All Christians need to give to the poor. We are merely forcing Christian values on people whether they like it or not. A time-honored American tradition. Commie.

Jason California
03-09-2010, 09:44 AM
You're wrong, that's charity; giving to others out of your own free will. Socialism and redistribution of wealth is the government taking your money giving it to others. Can't you see the difference there?


I don't think most do. Obama equated government social programs with his sharing his school lunch with the poor kids when he was in school. I think for most of them it is all the same thing.

DAVE
03-09-2010, 09:44 AM
You're wrong, that's charity; giving to others out of your own free will. Socialism and redistribution of wealth is the government taking your money giving it to others. Can't you see the difference there?

Which arm of the government are these charity advocating churches a part of?

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 09:46 AM
If you read the linked article to the very end, you will find that Beck also hates democracy.

JimboX
03-09-2010, 09:47 AM
You're picking some serious nits there.

No, I'm not. There's a clear difference between charity and redistribution of wealth. If you give your money to somebody, that's nice. That's charity. If I take your money from you and give it to somebody else, that's not nice. That's not charity.

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 09:48 AM
No, I'm not. There's a clear difference between charity and redistribution of wealth. If you give your money to somebody, that's nice. That's charity. If I take your money from you and give it to somebody else, that's not nice. That's not charity.

But that is one function of churches,

Ryan F
03-09-2010, 09:49 AM
You're wrong, that's charity; giving to others out of your own free will. Socialism and redistribution of wealth is the government taking your money giving it to others. Can't you see the difference there?

Render unto Caesar...

Dreg
03-09-2010, 09:50 AM
I don't think most do. Obama equated government social programs with his sharing his school lunch with the poor kids when he was in school. I think for most of them it is all the same thing.

Still, aid to the poor is a much bigger part of the New Testament than only allowing heterosexual marriages is. But Republicans legislate the latter into law and feel quite comfortable doing so. Why not take the exact same attitude and apply it to stuff that Jesus actually said and said A LOT? You know. Stuff that actually helps human beings instead of hypothetical beings.

Jason California
03-09-2010, 09:50 AM
But that is one function of churches,

And you join the church voluntarily.

mario
03-09-2010, 09:51 AM
It is amazing to me what qualifies a person as a troll these days.

spouting uninformed, delirious nonsense in the hope someone takes the bait isn't troll-language?

Fake Pat
03-09-2010, 09:51 AM
Hahaha yessss, charity is socialism.


Oh, I see. If you bold it, it means it must be terrible.

Even if it isn't, and even if you can't provide an explanation as to why it is, and even if you support it in other forms.

SOCIALISM!

Brother Power the Gong
03-09-2010, 09:51 AM
But if Christians did as Jesus preached, there wouldn't be as much social inequality as Christians would give absolutely everything they didn't need to the poor — and the government wouldn't have to step in to help bridge the gap. In other words, Christians would have to adopt pure communism, like the early Christians did.

WillieLee
03-09-2010, 09:52 AM
You're wrong, that's charity; giving to others out of your own free will. Socialism and redistribution of wealth is the government taking your money giving it to others. Can't you see the difference there?

I have to agree. I mean, what has the redistribution of wealth ever done for America? It's not like it built an entire economic system to create even more wealth. Fucking Nazis.

Jason California
03-09-2010, 09:53 AM
Still, aid to the poor is a much bigger part of the New Testament than only allowing heterosexual marriages is. But Republicans legislate the latter into law and feel quite comfortable doing so. Why not take the exact same attitude and apply it to stuff that Jesus actually said and said A LOT? You know. Stuff that actually helps human beings instead of hypothetical beings.


I think the Republicans are wrong to legislate morality. I sure as hell don't want the to get this wrong as well. charity should be completely voluntary. I don't want the state telling me where my money should go in that regard. If my church does it I have the right to stay or leave.

mario
03-09-2010, 09:53 AM
If I take your money from you and give it to somebody else, that's not nice. That's not charity.

silly person, it stops being someone else's money when that person gives it to you. Then it's your money.

JimboX
03-09-2010, 09:53 AM
But that is one function of churches,

The church does not take your money. You give it to them willingly. You don't have to give money to your church. When it comes to paying taxes you have no choice. You give the government your money or you go to jail. Big difference.

Dreg
03-09-2010, 09:53 AM
I have to agree. I mean, what has the redistribution of wealth ever done for America? It's not like it built an entire economic system to create even more wealth. Fucking Nazis.

Oh that's right. I forgot about the fact that we already adopted elements of socialism in our government. Geoff Johns, where's the retcon?

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 09:54 AM
And you join the church voluntarily.

And they advocate Social Justice voluntarily.

Dreg
03-09-2010, 09:54 AM
The church does not take your money. You give it to them willingly. You don't have to give money to your church. When it comes to paying taxes you have no choice. You give the government your money or you go to jail. Big difference.

What about government funding to religious organizations?

Fake Pat
03-09-2010, 09:55 AM
And they advocate Social Justice voluntarily.

Isn't living in America also voluntary?

Jason California
03-09-2010, 09:55 AM
And they advocate Social Justice voluntarily.


yep. so if you are cool with it stay.

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 09:56 AM
The church does not take your money. You give it to them willingly. You don't have to give money to your church. When it comes to paying taxes you have no choice. You give the government your money or you go to jail. Big difference.

Sure, but what I was getting at is that a major function of the church is the redistribution of wealth. That's true both in scripture, as shown above, and in practice. They take your money and give it to the poor, etc. Why does that make Beck nervous?

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 09:57 AM
yep. so if you are cool with it stay.

Nope. Glen Beck told me to run.

michealdark
03-09-2010, 09:57 AM
I know I jump on Christians, especially right-wingers, for being nutty, but most of them have never thought they were better than their religion. They might have used an interpretation of it that I find morally displeasing and infuriating, but never thought they were somehow ABOVE God and his teachings. Glenn has reached a new level of crazy that probably even has Falwell rolling over in his grave and wanting to become a Black Lantern.

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 09:57 AM
Isn't living in America also voluntary?

Love it or leave it Fake Pat!

Jason California
03-09-2010, 09:58 AM
Nope. Glen Beck told me to run.

He is giving his opinion. if you agree with him on that you should run.

SidekicksRevenge
03-09-2010, 10:00 AM
No, I'm not. There's a clear difference between charity and redistribution of wealth. If you give your money to somebody, that's nice. That's charity. If I take your money from you and give it to somebody else, that's not nice. That's not charity.

I don't buy it. Whether you're paying taxes (which, no matter what asshats like Beck will have you believe, is a far cry from a jackbooted government thug taking your money) or you're donating to Habitat for Humanity; that's redistribution of wealth. That's money you don't need going to help those who do. That's what Jesus taught.

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 10:01 AM
He is giving his opinion. if you agree with him on that you should run.

You're being disingenuous. He came out and said if your church advocates helping the poor you should leave it.

Jason California
03-09-2010, 10:03 AM
I don't buy it. Whether you're paying taxes (which, no matter what asshats like Beck will have you believe, is a far cry from a jackbooted government thug taking your money) or you're donating to Habitat for Humanity; that's redistribution of wealth. That's money you don't need going to help those who do. That's what Jesus taught.


"Thats money you don't need."

That is where the split is. It should be voluntary and not done through coercion.

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 10:05 AM
"Thats money you don't need."

That is where the split is. It should be voluntary and not done through coercion.

Isn't give us 10% of your money or go to hell coercion?

Brother Power the Gong
03-09-2010, 10:07 AM
"Thats money you don't need."

That is where the split is. It should be voluntary and not done through coercion.

Jesus wasn't split on anything: You give away what you don't need. There was no grey area. Christians, for the most part, do not do that.

Jason California
03-09-2010, 10:07 AM
You're being disingenuous. He came out and said if your church advocates helping the poor you should leave it.


No I am not. He believes that those are code words for communism (even though his church believes in that withing the confines of their group) and if your church states that those are values they support you should get away asap. If you agree with him on those views you should consider leaving your church.

Jason California
03-09-2010, 10:08 AM
Jesus wasn't split on anything: You give away what you don't need. There was no grey area. Christians, for the most part, do not do that.

That is fine. You should give. You should want to give. You should not be forced to give.

SidekicksRevenge
03-09-2010, 10:10 AM
"Thats money you don't need."

That is where the split is. It should be voluntary and not done through coercion.

Coercion. Hilarious. Tell you what. Keep your taxes. Stay off of my roads.

Jason California
03-09-2010, 10:11 AM
Isn't give us 10% of your money or go to hell coercion?


No. You choose to be part of the church. by choosing to be part of the church you go by their rules. it is a private organization. I have no problem with churches pushing social justice.

michealdark
03-09-2010, 10:12 AM
If helping the poor is communism, then he should also be railing against the Child Fund, Amnesty International, the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, soup kitchens, Extreme Makeover: Home Edition, and Habitat for Humanity, which is a really dickish thing to do.

I'm just waiting for the day when Glenn calls for all of us to move to a secluded part of the country and go John Galt

Brother Power the Gong
03-09-2010, 10:12 AM
That is fine. You should give. You should want to give. You should not be forced to give.

Christians don't give according to Christ's edicts, so the nation (which, according to Beck, is based on Christian values) enforces his word.

Jason California
03-09-2010, 10:14 AM
Christians don't give according to Christ's edicts, so the nation (which, according to Beck, is based on Christian values) enforces his word.


Yeah, I don't agree. I am not going to apply his twisted logic to these things.

mario
03-09-2010, 10:15 AM
Jesus wasn't split on anything: You give away what you don't need. There was no grey area. Christians, for the most part, do not do that.

Also, Jesus wasn't that keen on capitalists either.
Let's face it Christians: your saviour was a communist pinko (and probably gay too!)

Brother Power the Gong
03-09-2010, 10:17 AM
Yeah, I don't agree. I am not going to apply his twisted logic to these things.
That's fine. But taxes used to provide assistance to the poor is A-OK in my book.

Also, Jesus wasn't that keen on capitalists either.
Let's face it Christians: your saviour was a communist pinko (and probably gay too!)
Nah, he dug hookers. And he had a foot fetish.

Ben
03-09-2010, 10:17 AM
Maybe all the US soldiers should go AWOL, too, because the military is socialized! Should I also leave my library, police & fire department, school, university, highway, public transportation system, public TV and radio, museum, and park? Should I cancel my gas, electricity, and phone service?

And why are people talking this much about what a clearly retarded person says?

SidekicksRevenge
03-09-2010, 10:17 AM
Also, Jesus wasn't that keen on capitalists either.
Let's face it Christians: your saviour was a communist pinko (and probably gay too!)

Elton John thinks so. And since it takes one to know one...

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 10:18 AM
No I am not. He believes that those are code words for communism (even though his church believes in that withing the confines of their group) and if your church states that those are values they support you should get away asap. If you agree with him on those views you should consider leaving your church.

Well damn.

Looks like I'm leaving the church! :D

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 10:19 AM
Elton John thinks so. And since it takes one to know one...

Elton John is a commie?

Fake Pat
03-09-2010, 10:19 AM
No. You choose to be part of the church. by choosing to be part of the church you go by their rules. it is a private organization. I have no problem with churches pushing social justice.

You choose to live in America.

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 10:20 AM
But Jason, this is what I don't understand. Why do you rush to defend guys like Beck. You clearly don't agree with his opinion here. Neither do I. I'm not trying to take away his right to be a douche, but I'm certainly not going to let his douchery go by without being mocked.

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 10:20 AM
You choose to live in America.

Goddamnit Fake Pat, LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!!!


:D

Ryan F
03-09-2010, 10:22 AM
No I am not. He believes that those are code words for communism (even though his church believes in that withing the confines of their group) and if your church states that those are values they support you should get away asap. If you agree with him on those views you should consider leaving your church.

In other words, if you, like Glenn Beck, also have no understanding of the concepts of socialism, communism, fascism, social justice, no grasp of the basic functions of government or American history, and are a rabid ideologue, you should consider leaving your church. That does make sense. :)

Big McLargeHuge
03-09-2010, 10:24 AM
I have no clue what's going on in this thread.

mario
03-09-2010, 10:25 AM
Elton John thinks so. And since it takes one to know one...

i rest my case.
also the loin cloth was a gay symbol

Ben
03-09-2010, 10:26 AM
Didn't Glenn Beck say he learned everything he knows from books he read for free in the library?

If that isn't the best argument against socialism, I don't know what is!

Brother Power the Gong
03-09-2010, 10:26 AM
i rest my case.
also the loin cloth was a gay symbol

Two-way easy access like that would play well in reststops and parks across America!

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 10:27 AM
I have no clue what's going on in this thread.

Glen Beck says you're a communist, and Jesus was a gay space alien.

Jason California
03-09-2010, 10:28 AM
But Jason, this is what I don't understand. Why do you rush to defend guys like Beck. You clearly don't agree with his opinion here. Neither do I. I'm not trying to take away his right to be a douche, but I'm certainly not going to let his douchery go by without being mocked.

I am working on payroll right now and this response will take a bit and can't give a quick answer so I will get back to this in a bit.

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 10:32 AM
I am working on payroll right now and this response will take a bit and can't give a quick answer so I will get back to this in a bit.

I wait expectantly.

I was going to go with...Payroll? Sounds like redistribution of wealth to me. Pinko.

Ryan Elliott
03-09-2010, 10:36 AM
Two-way easy access like that would play well in reststops and parks across America!

And bathrooms republicans frequently use.

Jason California
03-09-2010, 10:36 AM
I wait expectantly.

I was going to go with...Payroll? Sounds like redistribution of wealth to me. Pinko.


http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy178/SantanaJason/Untitled-1.jpg

Big McLargeHuge
03-09-2010, 10:37 AM
Glen Beck says you're a communist, and Jesus was a gay space alien.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/Tress85/fuuuuu.png

Generic Poster
03-09-2010, 10:40 AM
Yeah. Biblical economic teachings are liberal as all get out. Something that every "Reagan Conservative" using the Jesus vote to get over-the-top in the south ignores on a minutely basis.

Wait a minute - are you saying that people pick and choose various portions of the bible to "believe in" in order to give mythical justification for their own pre-existing belief systems? That's just crazy talk!

Generic Poster
03-09-2010, 10:41 AM
You're wrong, that's charity; giving to others out of your own free will. Socialism and redistribution of wealth is the government taking your money giving it to others. Can't you see the difference there?

I'm sure Nick can. Glenn Beck seems to be one who can't.

divinus
03-09-2010, 10:43 AM
I'd like to thank Glenn Dreck for reminding me why I embraced atheism, every time I visit home and my parents are watching his gibberish.

MIKE D
03-09-2010, 10:47 AM
A Jesuit priest and scholar responds to Glenn Beck.

http://www.americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2&id=21159420-3048-741E-7761300524585116

Nick Spencer
03-09-2010, 10:53 AM
You're wrong, that's charity; giving to others out of your own free will. Socialism and redistribution of wealth is the government taking your money giving it to others. Can't you see the difference there?

Jesus' only recorded message to an anti-tax was to shut up, pay your taxes, and worry about more important things.

See Matthew 22:21 for reference.

Dreaded Anomaly
03-09-2010, 11:04 AM
I think everyone is missing something with this "voluntary-forced" debate on redistribution of wealth. It's a well-established statistic that conservatives who donate to charity tend to donate a higher percentage than liberals who donate to charity. The key to this is that liberals generally believe that the government should be involved with redistribution of wealth, so they don't view paying taxes as some kind of involuntary fine. Conservatives obviously disagree. Calling any government/tax-based method of redistributing wealth "forced" is just the spin of the conservative side.

More broadly, our elected representatives decide to raise or lower taxes. If an area has a large liberal majority, taxes are more likely to go up (although these days, there's a lot of populist anti-tax rhetoric on both sides of the aisle), and that's going to be more or less "voluntary" in that it's directly due to the will of the people (or at least the majority, given how our system is set up), and not some far-removed "government" passing down edicts to its enslaved populace.

Flint66606
03-09-2010, 11:06 AM
Isn't give us 10% of your money or go to hell coercion?And yet millions of churchgoers don't tithe. The fact is, the consequences the church talks about are not immediate. Going to jail or incurring a large fine for not paying taxes is. And, also, there are theological debates about whether tithing is necessary in a post-Christ world, there's no real, serious debate about whether you have to pay taxes or not.


Jesus wasn't split on anything: You give away what you don't need. There was no grey area. Christians, for the most part, do not do that.
How much money someone needs should be between them and whatever higher power they answer to, it should not be a matter decided by a church or a government.

Nick Spencer
03-09-2010, 11:09 AM
How much money someone needs should be between them and whatever higher power they answer to, it should not be a matter decided by a church or a government.

That seems pretty convenient.

God told me I need this Lexus!

Christ took his definition of need down to extra outerwear. It's in writing.

Brother Power the Gong
03-09-2010, 11:10 AM
How much money someone needs should be between them and whatever higher power they answer to, it should not be a matter decided by a church or a government.

Right, and Jesus was very specific about what one should give.

Dan
03-09-2010, 11:10 AM
Glenn Beck is probably the antichrist.

Nick Spencer
03-09-2010, 11:13 AM
Also, why is it, whenever this conversation comes up, conservatives act like most of your federal income tax dollars go to other people? Most of your tax dollars go to national defense.

Once again, Jesus was asked specifically about taxation, and he was clearly completely uninterested. This messiah you have is completely incompatible with your materialistic society. Jesus didn't give two shits how much money came out of your paycheck.

Ben
03-09-2010, 11:17 AM
Also, why is it, whenever this conversation comes up, conservatives act like most of your tax dollars go to other people? Most of your tax dollars go to national defense.Because conservatives just pick some issue they can bitch about without worrying about being consistent or logical.

Dreaded Anomaly
03-09-2010, 11:17 AM
Also, why is it, whenever this conversation comes up, conservatives act like most of your tax dollars go to other people? Most of your tax dollars go to national defense.

Nope, it all goes to those damn lazy welfare queens scamming the system.

information
03-09-2010, 11:25 AM
A Jesuit priest and scholar responds to Glenn Beck.

http://www.americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2&id=21159420-3048-741E-7761300524585116

Well, that sums it up neatly.

GelfXIII
03-09-2010, 11:27 AM
Well, that sums it up neatly.

"Sums it up neatly" isn't the phrase I would choose, since his reply is about 5 pages long. :lol:

Joe Kalicki
03-09-2010, 11:28 AM
Plus he wants us to invade Asgard.

Nick Spencer
03-09-2010, 11:30 AM
A Jesuit priest and scholar responds to Glenn Beck.

http://www.americamagazine.org/blog/entry.cfm?blog_id=2&id=21159420-3048-741E-7761300524585116

One of my favorite quotes in the comments.

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: that is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." ~ John Kenneth Galbraith

Generic Poster
03-09-2010, 11:31 AM
Also, why is it, whenever this conversation comes up, conservatives act like most of your federal income tax dollars go to other people? Most of your tax dollars go to national defense.

Fucking poor people. Always using the taxpayer funded courts to enforce their contracts, and the taxpayer funded police and fire departments to protect their property!

Doug
03-09-2010, 11:40 AM
Plus he wants us to invade Asgard.

Legitimate LOL.

Khrutch
03-09-2010, 12:24 PM
Also, why is it, whenever this conversation comes up, conservatives act like most of your federal income tax dollars go to other people? Most of your tax dollars go to national defense.

Once again, Jesus was asked specifically about taxation, and he was clearly completely uninterested. This messiah you have is completely incompatible with your materialistic society. Jesus didn't give two shits how much money came out of your paycheck.

I see you have not read the Bible and it's funny that you are trying to tell others what it says.

Generic Poster
03-09-2010, 12:26 PM
I see you have not read the Bible and it's funny that you are trying to tell others what it says.

Irony, thy name is Khrutch!

Ryan F
03-09-2010, 12:26 PM
I see you have not read the Bible and it's funny that you are trying to tell others what it says.

:rofl:

RebootedCorpse
03-09-2010, 12:28 PM
I hear him say things that even the most brain-damaged white supremist could not believe and I think "this must be a put-on."
But it's just not. He believes it and so do a number of his fucktarded flock. Incredible.

Ryan Elliott
03-09-2010, 12:30 PM
I see you have not read the Bible and it's funny that you are trying to tell others what it says.


Holy fucking shit.


Teach a man to fish...:lol:

Generic Poster
03-09-2010, 12:31 PM
Teach a man to fish...:lol:

Just like Khrutch claims Jesus said!

RebootedCorpse
03-09-2010, 12:34 PM
Jesus said: "I'm rubber, you're glue!"

Generic Poster
03-09-2010, 12:36 PM
"In my father's house are many rooms. But you stay out of them. Get your own house, you fucking free-loaders!"

Ryan Elliott
03-09-2010, 12:37 PM
"Like it if you don't it. Try to fish."

-Jesus. Matthew 13:7*

Ben
03-09-2010, 12:37 PM
"Let he who is without sin... get a fucking job!"

Dreaded Anomaly
03-09-2010, 12:40 PM
"Like it if you don't it. Try to fish."

-Jesus. Matthew 13:7*

You clearly haven't read the Bible. Jesus said "Hate it if you don't it." :roll:

Ryan Elliott
03-09-2010, 12:42 PM
You clearly haven't read the Bible. Jesus said "Hate it if you don't it." :roll:


Psh! Jesus was all about liking stuff that you don't it!

try reading the bible sometime. You might learn some stuff!

*yawn*

*burp*

Khrutch
03-09-2010, 12:43 PM
Heh...I love you guys. Is this the best board on the net or what?

:lol:

In that part the people asking Jesus about taxes were trying to find a reason to accuse him and arrest him. Jesus expects us to pay our taxes and submit to governmental authority unless it violates his law. Jesus never taught ‘social justice’, not ever. He never said life would be fair, but that he would always be with us through it all and that he would provide for us if we trust him. If he did he would have given all of us the same measure of gifts, money, whatever, but he didn’t. He even taught a parable about how some are given one talent, another two and so on. Some are given more talents than others, but what matters to God is what we do with those talents. He said the poor will always be with us, but we are to take care of them. ‘We’ the church, not the government taking our money and giving moochers a free ride.

Generic Poster
03-09-2010, 12:44 PM
Wouldn't be weird if, in addition to all this hippie-commie shit, Jesus also said stuff that made him and his followers sound like violent maniacs, as crazed as the crazed jihadist? Something along the lines of:

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it."

Jason California
03-09-2010, 12:47 PM
daughter in laws are against their mother in laws without the help of Jesus.

TheKraken
03-09-2010, 12:48 PM
‘We’ the church, not the government taking our money and giving moochers a free ride.

So you agree that Beck is wrong, then. That's interesting.

RickLM
03-09-2010, 12:50 PM
Back to the coalmines, children!

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 12:53 PM
Heh...I love you guys. Is this the best board on the net or what?

:lol:

In that part the people asking Jesus about taxes were trying to find a reason to accuse him and arrest him. Jesus expects us to pay our taxes and submit to governmental authority unless it violates his law. Jesus never taught ‘social justice’, not ever. He never said life would be fair, but that he would always be with us through it all and that he would provide for us if we trust him. If he did he would have given all of us the same measure of gifts, money, whatever, but he didn’t. He even taught a parable about how some are given one talent, another two and so on. Some are given more talents than others, but what matters to God is what we do with those talents. He said the poor will always be with us, but we are to take care of them. ‘We’ the church, not the government taking our money and giving moochers a free ride.

Hey Krutch, in Matthew 19:23-24 Jesus said to his disciples:

"I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Are you a rich man Krutch?

Nick Spencer
03-09-2010, 12:55 PM
I see you have not read the Bible and it's funny that you are trying to tell others what it says.

:lol:

You see I have not read the people by the fact that I quoted the bible?

For the record, I've read the Bible front to back 5 times, it's something I had to do every year in my teens. I've lost count of how many times I've read the gospels, but it's a lot more. Then there was the whole Jesuit education thing.

But then, that doesn't even surprise me. Most modern day Protestant Evangelicals barely recognize the Bible and are just as likely to cite Chinese proverbs as bible verses when pressed.

RebootedCorpse
03-09-2010, 12:56 PM
Heh...I love you guys. Is this the best board on the net or what?

:lol:

In that part the people asking Jesus about taxes were trying to find a reason to accuse him and arrest him. Jesus expects us to pay our taxes and submit to governmental authority unless it violates his law. Jesus never taught ‘social justice’, not ever. He never said life would be fair, but that he would always be with us through it all and that he would provide for us if we trust him. If he did he would have given all of us the same measure of gifts, money, whatever, but he didn’t. He even taught a parable about how some are given one talent, another two and so on. Some are given more talents than others, but what matters to God is what we do with those talents. He said the poor will always be with us, but we are to take care of them. ‘We’ the church, not the government taking our money and giving moochers a free ride.

I can't decide what you know less about: social policy or your own religion. It's a tough call.

Nick Spencer
03-09-2010, 12:59 PM
Heh...I love you guys. Is this the best board on the net or what?

:lol:

In that part the people asking Jesus about taxes were trying to find a reason to accuse him and arrest him. Jesus expects us to pay our taxes and submit to governmental authority unless it violates his law. Jesus never taught ‘social justice’, not ever. He never said life would be fair, but that he would always be with us through it all and that he would provide for us if we trust him. If he did he would have given all of us the same measure of gifts, money, whatever, but he didn’t. He even taught a parable about how some are given one talent, another two and so on. Some are given more talents than others, but what matters to God is what we do with those talents. He said the poor will always be with us, but we are to take care of them. ‘We’ the church, not the government taking our money and giving moochers a free ride.

You (and I say you because Evangelicals today greatly resemble the religious hypocrites of his own time) tried to get Jesus involved in their anti-tax bullshit, and he essentially told you to fuck off.

Jesus never taught social justice? Are you fucking serious?

This is the height of insanity. You all might as well burn your bibles and write a new one from scratch, because this one is clearly of no use to you and your McJesus.

Ben
03-09-2010, 01:02 PM
I love... guys. http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i171/thedailynow/gayhand.gif

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 01:02 PM
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i171/thedailynow/gayhand.gif

Just like Jesus!

Nick Spencer
03-09-2010, 01:04 PM
Heh...I love you guys. Is this the best board on the net or what?

:lol:

In that part the people asking Jesus about taxes were trying to find a reason to accuse him and arrest him. Jesus expects us to pay our taxes and submit to governmental authority unless it violates his law. Jesus never taught ‘social justice’, not ever. He never said life would be fair, but that he would always be with us through it all and that he would provide for us if we trust him. If he did he would have given all of us the same measure of gifts, money, whatever, but he didn’t. He even taught a parable about how some are given one talent, another two and so on. Some are given more talents than others, but what matters to God is what we do with those talents. He said the poor will always be with us, but we are to take care of them. ‘We’ the church, not the government taking our money and giving moochers a free ride.

Also, way to completely miss the point of the parable of the talents.

No matter which way you try to spin this shit, Jesus tells you to give everything you don't absolutely need to the poor, and instead, you spend your time trying to figure out how to demonize them, spite them, and ensure that government does nothing to help them. Absolutely fucking disgusting. I honestly don't see how people with such a selfish viewpoint live with themselves.

Brother Power the Gong
03-09-2010, 01:07 PM
I honestly don't see how people with such a selfish viewpoint live with themselves.
Your answer is in your statement.

Blue Flash
03-09-2010, 01:07 PM
Didn't Glenn Beck say he learned everything he knows from books he read for free in the library?

If that isn't the best argument against socialism, I don't know what is!

I think the problem is he's never in his life been to one.

How else can you explain a guy who's riding the razor-thin line between belligerent, cowardly, irrational, right-wing trolling (Ethan Van Sciver) and out-right hate-speech (Topical reference of the month: Ernst Zundel)

Dan
03-09-2010, 01:09 PM
I'm telling you, a silver tongued devil telling people to leave their churches is exactly what the Antichrist would say.

I'd say check Glenn Beck's forehead for the number of the beast, but it's probably hidden somewhere under his clothes.

MIKE D
03-09-2010, 01:12 PM
I see you have not read the Bible and it's funny that you are trying to tell others what it says.

Says the guy that attributes Confucius quotes to Jesus.

Foolish Mortal
03-09-2010, 01:17 PM
Glenn Beck is like a slinky

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/gelf13/slinky.jpg
I endorse this post. :thumb:

Caley Tibbittz
03-09-2010, 01:22 PM
It seem hypocritical to want the government to reflect supposed Christian values, but only if those values don't cost you any money.

Nick Spencer
03-09-2010, 01:22 PM
Says the guy that attributes Confucius quotes to Jesus.

:lol:

More common than you think. These people love to talk about the Bible, but most of what they get from it is second hand. I'm amazed how many times they'll quote some random truism from Confucius or Ben Franklin and pass it off as a bible verse. Hilarious.

Nick Spencer
03-09-2010, 01:27 PM
It seem hypocritical to want the government to reflect supposed Christian values, but only if those values don't cost you any money.

Well, that's the great hypocrisy of it, right? If it's a gay rights issue, or something about teaching science, or religious statements on public grounds, etc., then we are a Christian nation and society is supposed to reflect those beliefs. But when it comes to Christian notions of Charity, that's a private thing, no need to reflect that.

Completely fucked up, but such is the state of mainstream Christianity these days: a unique cocktail of self-help bullshit, conservative politics, and intolerance towards virtually everyone but their peers. Christ must be spinning in his resurrected grave.

Blue Flash
03-09-2010, 01:47 PM
Well, that's the great hypocrisy of it, right? If it's a gay rights issue, or something about teaching science, or religious statements on public grounds, etc., then we are a Christian nation and society is supposed to reflect those beliefs. But when it comes to Christian notions of Charity, that's a private thing, no need to reflect that.

Completely fucked up, but such is the state of mainstream Christianity these days: a unique cocktail of self-help bullshit, conservative politics, and intolerance towards virtually everyone but their peers. Christ must be spinning in his resurrected grave.

And now some of our soldiers are thinking to kick-start the Apocalypse over yonder in Iraq, helped along (ideologically) by a few fringe Israelis.

Marvelous.

Matt Jay
03-09-2010, 02:07 PM
At least Glenn Beck recognizes the hypocrisy of the religious right.

Jason California
03-09-2010, 02:07 PM
And now some of our soldiers are thinking to kick-start the Apocalypse over yonder in Iraq, helped along (ideologically) by a few fringe Israelis.

Marvelous.


Personally, I am hoping the middle east never has peace. this way Jesus never has to come and we can keep on living our lives.

Adrian B AWESOME
03-09-2010, 02:18 PM
I see you have not read the Bible and it's funny that you are trying to tell others what it says.

Teach a man to fish!

Adrian B AWESOME
03-09-2010, 02:21 PM
Heh...I love you guys. Is this the best board on the net or what?

:lol:

In that part the people asking Jesus about taxes were trying to find a reason to accuse him and arrest him. Jesus expects us to pay our taxes and submit to governmental authority unless it violates his law. Jesus never taught ‘social justice’, not ever. He never said life would be fair, but that he would always be with us through it all and that he would provide for us if we trust him. If he did he would have given all of us the same measure of gifts, money, whatever, but he didn’t. He even taught a parable about how some are given one talent, another two and so on. Some are given more talents than others, but what matters to God is what we do with those talents. He said the poor will always be with us, but we are to take care of them. ‘We’ the church, not the government taking our money and giving moochers a free ride.

And Jesus said It's like the story of the dude who could suck really well. And as time went on, he found that he could also blow. Suck and blow your way to the kingdom of Heaven good child! - Mark 7:12-14

Adrian B AWESOME
03-09-2010, 02:22 PM
Also, way to completely miss the point of the parable of the talents.

No matter which way you try to spin this shit, Jesus tells you to give everything you don't absolutely need to the poor, and instead, you spend your time trying to figure out how to demonize them, spite them, and ensure that government does nothing to help them. Absolutely fucking disgusting. I honestly don't see how people with such a selfish viewpoint live with themselves.

Stop saying things that make sense. It makes hating you more difficult.

Blue Flash
03-09-2010, 02:53 PM
Stop saying things that make sense. It makes hating you more difficult.

:)

To add to Nick's point: it's telling that 2/3rds of the world's Catholics (who live in South America) subscribe to Liberation Theology, which is basically full-on Marxism with a Jesus varnish.

Ratzinger, incidentally, was tasked with essentially trying to crush Liberation Theology and forcibly turn the majority of his flock into servile sheep once again.

Mattman
03-09-2010, 03:03 PM
Count the amount of historical inaccuracies in his Glen Beck video. (http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201003080037)

majorjoe23
03-09-2010, 03:08 PM
I thought one of the right's talking points against things like welfare is that charities and churches should be the ones taking care of people, not the government.

Foolish Mortal
03-09-2010, 03:09 PM
Count the amount of historical inaccuracies in his Glen Beck video. (http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201003080037)
Sounds like a rambling crazy man. It's clear he doesn't know what he's talking about in the first ten seconds.

Adrian B AWESOME
03-09-2010, 03:12 PM
Sounds like a rambling crazy man. It's clear he doesn't know what he's talking about in the first ten seconds.

But he does! He went to the public library and checked out books, which right there forever negates anything he has to say!

majorjoe23
03-09-2010, 03:23 PM
At least Glenn Beck recognizes the hypocrisy of the religious right.

It reminds me of that great quote about pointing out the speck in someone else's eye while ignoring the log in your own. If only I could remember who said it... oh yeah, Confucius!

mario
03-09-2010, 03:50 PM
Count the amount of historical inaccuracies in his Glen Beck video. (http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201003080037)

I'd rather not. His is a face in need of a knuckle sammich or two

Foolish Mortal
03-09-2010, 04:41 PM
I'd rather not. His is a face in need of a knuckle sammich or two
You should see it. He's so fucking serious. It's like a history of the world that some 10-year-old made up. :lol:

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 04:49 PM
You should see it. He's so fucking serious. It's like a history of the world that some 10-year-old made up. :lol:

Fuck the poor!

Jason California
03-09-2010, 04:53 PM
I like how Beck claims the Puritan came here for religious freedom, when they really came here to be free to be religious tyrants for what they believed instead.

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 04:57 PM
I like how Beck claims the Puritan came here for religious freedom, when they really came here to be free to be religious tyrants for what they believed instead.

I'll give him that one. It's the same thing just different perspectives.

Jason California
03-09-2010, 04:58 PM
I'll give him that one. It's the same thing just different perspectives.


And I have not forgotten about you.

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 05:00 PM
And I have not forgotten about you.

You give me the chills sweetness.

DAVE
03-09-2010, 05:02 PM
Count the amount of historical inaccuracies in his Glen Beck video. (http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201003080037)

I love how when he explains the great track that the US was on in between the revolution until FDR he totally doesn't mention little things like slavery and the Civil War.

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 05:05 PM
I love how when he explains the great track that the US was on in between the revolution until FDR he totally doesn't mention little things like slavery and the Civil War.

Slaves were good for business. Fuckers didn't unionize.

Richard Pace
03-09-2010, 05:18 PM
I can't be the only one thinking that he's long overdue being found dead by autoerotic asphyxiation in front of a looped video of Birth of a Nation highlights.
~R

R0cketFr0g
03-09-2010, 05:19 PM
I can't the only thinking that he's long overdue being found dead by autoerotic aphyxiation in front of a looped video of Birth of a Nation highlights.
~R

That's so fucking hot.

michealdark
03-09-2010, 06:53 PM
I hear him say things that even the most brain-damaged white supremist could not believe and I think "this must be a put-on."
But it's just not. He believes it and so do a number of his fucktarded flock. Incredible.

Are you talking about Krutch or Beck here? :lol:


He said the poor will always be with us, but we are to take care of them. ‘We’ the church, not the government taking our money and giving moochers a free ride.

:mistrust: Okay, so "you" the church should take care of the "moochers" as you call them?


Wouldn't be weird if, in addition to all this hippie-commie shit, Jesus also said stuff that made him and his followers sound like violent maniacs, as crazed as the crazed jihadist? Something along the lines of:

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it."

I thought the book that was from was non-Canonical?


:)

To add to Nick's point: it's telling that 2/3rds of the world's Catholics (who live in South America) subscribe to Liberation Theology, which is basically full-on Marxism with a Jesus varnish.

Ratzinger, incidentally, was tasked with essentially trying to crush Liberation Theology and forcibly turn the majority of his flock into servile sheep once again.

Liberation Theology is one form of Christianity I genuinely support. Wish I knew more about it, but from what I've heard it sounds great. Marxist economics, but without the total ignoring of the spiritual nature of man.

babydave
03-09-2010, 10:35 PM
No form of government works for everyone. Socialism is the one that's closest, and it's the only one that makes sense.

The reason people talk about what people like Glen Beck and Sarah Palin say is because it's frightening how many people actually listen to them and we feel the need to voice the opposing (sane) opinion.

Liberals always lose because liberals try to talk reason into people running on emotion. Conservatives win because they use fear and emotional propaganda to talk reason OUT of people. Obama will probably be a 1-term President, and we'll be back to crazyland soon enough. It's partially his fault too. He extended the Patriot Act for another year. He blinked on the Public Option for healthcare. People are still frightened about their futures and he's doing nothing to assuage them.

I'm for Socialism. Unfortunately, I think we're already too fucked for a change to Socialism to matter at this point.

Ryan F
03-10-2010, 05:24 AM
Count the amount of historical inaccuracies in his Glen Beck video. (http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201003080037)

Most dudes yelling about the apocalypse on street corners have their facts more straight than this dude.

What a maroon!

Generic Poster
03-10-2010, 05:44 AM
I thought the book that was from was non-Canonical?



It's Matthew 10:34-39, as canonical as it gets.

Foolish Mortal
03-10-2010, 06:11 AM
Obama will probably be a 1-term President, and we'll be back to crazyland soon enough. It's partially his fault too. He extended the Patriot Act for another year. He blinked on the Public Option for healthcare. People are still frightened about their futures and he's doing nothing to assuage them.
Obama is a Centrist. He always has been. Despite the Conservatives keep saying he's a Socialist.

And unless the GOP can present a viable candidate that can realistically beat Obama, then Obama is going to get two terms.

Richard Pace
03-10-2010, 06:40 AM
If the GOP thinks they can come back this soon after Bush, they're deluding themselves. The largest part of Obama's drop is from the majority of the people finally realising he really is Spock and not the black Jesus they were hoping for.

Of course, it certainly looks like a large number of the conservative movement are quite delusional, so that explains the weird optimism they're expressing over the Scott Brown win. Reminds me of the people predicting that Guliani was a good candidate for pres.

The Dems might not be able to hang onto their slim majorities, but there's nothing in the water stirring for a 2012 presidential run.

~R

Big McLargeHuge
03-10-2010, 06:49 AM
Wouldn't be weird if, in addition to all this hippie-commie shit, Jesus also said stuff that made him and his followers sound like violent maniacs, as crazed as the crazed jihadist? Something along the lines of:

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it."

Providing no context is fun! Wheeeee!

Generic Poster
03-10-2010, 06:51 AM
Providing no context is fun! Wheeeee!

Feel free to place the quote in context.

Big McLargeHuge
03-10-2010, 06:55 AM
Feel free to place the quote in context.

I'm sure if you were interested you would've spent a couple minutes just googling it, but hey, I'm sure you don't really care since it's all mumbo anyway.

Fake Pat
03-10-2010, 06:58 AM
I'm sure if you were interested you would've spent a couple minutes just googling it, but hey, I'm sure you don't really care since it's all mumbo anyway.

I'm interested.

Show me the context which makes that quote anything less than mindblowingly disturbing.

Generic Poster
03-10-2010, 07:01 AM
I'm sure if you were interested you would've spent a couple minutes just googling it, but hey, I'm sure you don't really care since it's all mumbo anyway.

Well, I'm already familiar with the context. People can interpret the words as they choose. I assume you're an advocate of the interpretation that Jesus is just indicating the word of God can be divisive. Personally, I think that's a watered down interpretation of some pretty disturbing language, but whatever.

Big McLargeHuge
03-10-2010, 07:09 AM
Well, I'm already familiar with the context. People can interpret the words as they choose. I assume you're an advocate of the interpretation that Jesus is just indicating the word of God can be divisive. Personally, I think that's a watered down interpretation of some pretty disturbing language, but whatever.

That's fine. I figured you didn't really care. No biggie.

Fake Pat
03-10-2010, 07:09 AM
That's fine. I figured you didn't really care. No biggie.

Again, I care.

If you actually can do it, show me.

Big McLargeHuge
03-10-2010, 07:17 AM
Again, I care.

If you actually can do it, show me.

This isn't a personal challenge, Pat. If you honestly want to know just do some basic checking.

Fake Pat
03-10-2010, 07:20 AM
This isn't a personal challenge, Pat. If you honestly want to know just do some basic checking.

I have, and I don't see any context that lines up with the claims you're making.

And you made the claim that context was important here. It's on you to back that up.

Generic Poster
03-10-2010, 07:20 AM
This isn't a personal challenge, Pat. If you honestly want to know just do some basic checking.

Yeah, Pat. And if you do so and reach a different conclusion about what it means from Big, it will mean that you don't really care. No big deal.

Big McLargeHuge
03-10-2010, 07:33 AM
Yeah, Pat. And if you do so and reach a different conclusion about what it means from Big, it will mean that you don't really care. No big deal.

Oh my god! Sick burn!

Fake Pat
03-10-2010, 07:40 AM
Oh my god! Sick burn!

Do you still claim that context is important in this case?

SidekicksRevenge
03-10-2010, 07:46 AM
Dude, Big, take it easy. There are straight up giant-brained Biblical scholars that struggle with putting a proper meaning behind this section. Some believe it was a prophesy of things to come and how divisive Christianity would be over the next 2000 years and change (and hit has been), some believe Jesus was simply acknowledging that his teachings were controversial, some believe that the harshness of the language here was actually a riff on the other prophets on the streets...

...what they do agree on is that this language is harsh and doesn't quite jive with many of the other things Jesus says in the Q text. And they agree that this is a passage that should make you very uncomfortable.

Big McLargeHuge
03-10-2010, 07:53 AM
Dude, Big, take it easy. There are straight up giant-brained Biblical scholars that struggle with putting a proper meaning behind this section. Some believe it was a prophesy of things to come and how divisive Christianity would be over the next 2000 years and change (and hit has been), some believe Jesus was simply acknowledging that his teachings were controversial, some believe that the harshness of the language here was actually a riff on the other prophets on the streets...

...what they do agree on is that this language is harsh and doesn't quite jive with many of the other things Jesus says in the Q text. And they agree that this is a passage that should make you very uncomfortable.

I didn't mean to come across as hostile or whatever I came across as. Sorry all. I do like that you worded it as "straight up giant-brained" :)

Ultimate Lurker
03-10-2010, 09:15 AM
http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/ReligionTheology/SociologyofReligion/?view=usa&ci=9780195337112

More than one out of four American Protestants give away no money at all—"not even a token $5 per year," say sociologists Christian Smith, Michael Emerson, and Patricia Snell in a new study on Christian giving, Passing the Plate (Oxford University Press).

The median annual giving for an American Christian is actually $200, just over half a percent of after-tax income. About 5 percent of American Christians provide 60 percent of the money churches and religious groups use to operate.


"Americans who earn less than $10,000 gave 2.3 percent of their income to religious organizations," Smith, Emerson, and Snell write, "whereas those who earn $70,000 or more gave only 1.2 percent." While the actual percentages are slightly higher for Christians who regularly attend church, the pattern is similar. Households of committed Christians making less than $12,500 per year give away roughly 7 percent of their income, a figure no other income bracket beats until incomes rise above $90,000 (they give away 8.8 percent).

DAVE
03-10-2010, 09:36 AM
How come Jews got the reputation for being cheap?

Jason California
03-10-2010, 09:57 AM
How come Jews got the reputation for being cheap?


That thread was a bit ago. nice remembering there.

Adrian B AWESOME
03-10-2010, 10:02 AM
No form of government works for everyone. Socialism is the one that's closest, and it's the only one that makes sense.

The reason people talk about what people like Glen Beck and Sarah Palin say is because it's frightening how many people actually listen to them and we feel the need to voice the opposing (sane) opinion.

Liberals always lose because liberals try to talk reason into people running on emotion. Conservatives win because they use fear and emotional propaganda to talk reason OUT of people. Obama will probably be a 1-term President, and we'll be back to crazyland soon enough. It's partially his fault too. He extended the Patriot Act for another year. He blinked on the Public Option for healthcare. People are still frightened about their futures and he's doing nothing to assuage them.

I'm for Socialism. Unfortunately, I think we're already too fucked for a change to Socialism to matter at this point.

Unfortunately, true socialism has NEVER worked in practice, because in an ideal setting it works, but it does not account for functions of greed and lust for power. Come on, guy, didn't you read Animal Farm?

Generic Poster
03-10-2010, 10:05 AM
Unfortunately, true socialism has NEVER worked in practice, because in an ideal setting it works, but it does not account for functions of greed and lust for power. Come on, guy, didn't you read Animal Farm?

You know communism and socialism aren't the same things, right?

R0cketFr0g
03-10-2010, 10:13 AM
Unfortunately, true socialism has NEVER worked in practice, because in an ideal setting it works, but it does not account for functions of greed and lust for power. Come on, guy, didn't you read Animal Farm?

Animals don't have pockets though. That messes up even the simplest economic system.

Ben
03-10-2010, 10:44 AM
Seems like a good mix of capitalism and socialism makes the most sense.

Dreaded Anomaly
03-10-2010, 11:04 AM
Seems like a good mix of capitalism and socialism makes the most sense.

Nonsense! A capitalist system couldn't possibly succeed in the face of interference from socialist programs. The second we establish public education, public libraries, social security, a police force, the military, or the postal service, we might as well give up on ever seeing prosperity again.

CPA
03-10-2010, 11:05 AM
Seems like a good mix of capitalism and socialism makes the most sense.

Not really.

Socialism deprives those of any incentive to succeed. If I go to school to be a doctor but make the same as a janitor, why do I want to make the extra effort?

Everyone has to decide just how much they want out of life. Nothing is easy and your success is pretty well dictated by your desire to achieve. Some have an easier path, but the results generally bear out the results.

There is no right to equal results or starting point, only equal opportunities to achieve.

Foolish Mortal
03-10-2010, 11:10 AM
Unfortunately, true socialism has NEVER worked in practice, because in an ideal setting it works, but it does not account for functions of greed and lust for power. Come on, guy, didn't you read Animal Farm?
Exactly. A system like that only works if everyone in the system is honest and free of avarice.

MIKE D
03-10-2010, 11:11 AM
Not really.

Socialism deprives those of any incentive to succeed. If I go to school to be a doctor but make the same as a janitor, why do I want to make the extra effort?

Everyone has to decide just how much they want out of life. Nothing is easy and your success is pretty well dictated by your desire to achieve. Some have an easier path, but the results generally bear out the results.

There is no right to equal results or starting point, only equal opportunities to achieve.

Who says we'd apply Socialism to pay grades? Why can't it just be that the janitor and the doctor both can have, say affordable health care for their families?
Do you honestly believe anyone is recommending socialism across the board, in every aspect of American life? We already use it where it works, and it hasn't invaded everything else.

There seems to be a weird disconnect with some people about this word with it's practical applications in reality.

edwardmblake
03-10-2010, 11:16 AM
Not really.

Socialism deprives those of any incentive to succeed. If I go to school to be a doctor but make the same as a janitor, why do I want to make the extra effort?

Everyone has to decide just how much they want out of life. Nothing is easy and your success is pretty well dictated by your desire to achieve. Some have an easier path, but the results generally bear out the results.

There is no right to equal results or starting point, only equal opportunities to achieve.

I see what your trying to say, but money been proven to be a temporary motivator at best. It seems illogical, but the studies are too numerous to list.

Dreaded Anomaly
03-10-2010, 11:19 AM
Not really.

Socialism deprives those of any incentive to succeed. If I go to school to be a doctor but make the same as a janitor, why do I want to make the extra effort?

Everyone has to decide just how much they want out of life. Nothing is easy and your success is pretty well dictated by your desire to achieve. Some have an easier path, but the results generally bear out the results.

There is no right to equal results or starting point, only equal opportunities to achieve.

What you're talking about here has nothing to do with "a mix of capitalism and socialism."

CPA
03-10-2010, 11:20 AM
Who says we'd apply Socialism to pay grades? Why can't it just be that the janitor and the doctor both can have, say affordable health care for their families?
Do you honestly believe anyone is recommending socialism across the board, in every aspect of American life? We already use it where it works, and it hasn't invaded everything else.

There seems to be a weird disconnect with some people about this word with it's practical applications in reality.

No, but the results bear out the same regardless of the area or size of the program you try and apply it to. It just does not work. Sure, you can have the same poor healthcare for both. Since the hopsitals would be capped by their ability to generate income (and are currently by Medicare), then the ability to pay a doctor decreases as a result. Soon, no one wants to become a doctor because there is no money in it for them. So, the hospital begins reducing the procedures for people since the revenue it generates only pays for a limited number of people (rationing). Very simple and is fact. Not opinion, fact. Argue away if you like, but you will be wrong.

I know you guys want socialism to succeed really badly, but it never does. Socialistic societies always fail and the only answer is that there was not enough socialism. There are some people who think that the USSR would have succeeded if they were given more time.

Ben
03-10-2010, 11:21 AM
Not really.

Socialism deprives those of any incentive to succeed. If I go to school to be a doctor but make the same as a janitor, why do I want to make the extra effort?

Everyone has to decide just how much they want out of life. Nothing is easy and your success is pretty well dictated by your desire to achieve. Some have an easier path, but the results generally bear out the results.

There is no right to equal results or starting point, only equal opportunities to achieve.So I say "A good mix of both is probably best" and you respond with "NO! Only having socialism is bad!!"

Yeah, no shit. I said a GOOD MIX.

Ben
03-10-2010, 11:21 AM
I think CPA has been staring at tax return numbers too long and has forgotten how to interpret words.

MIKE D
03-10-2010, 11:23 AM
No, but the results bear out the same regardless of the area or size of the program you try and apply it to. It just does not work. Sure, you can have the same poor healthcare for both. Since the hopsitals would be capped by their ability to generate income (and are currently by Medicare), then the ability to pay a doctor decreases as a result. Soon, no one wants to become a doctor because there is no money in it for them. So, the hospital begins reducing the procedures for people since the revenue it generates only pays for a limited number of people (rationing). Very simple and is fact. Not opinion, fact. Argue away if you like, but you will be wrong.

I know you guys want socialism to succeed really badly, but it never does. Socialistic societies always fail and the only answer is that there was not enough socialism. There are some people who think that the USSR would have succeeded if they were given more time.

Again, you are equating a desire for a healthy mix as an all or nothing scenario. We already have successful socialist programs in this country, up to and including Medicare.

Why do you continue to assume that this would lead to socialism across the board, when it very clearly hasn't already? That just seems like succumbing to fear of word over actual reasoning.

CPA
03-10-2010, 11:26 AM
I think CPA has been staring at tax return numbers too long and has forgotten how to interpret words.

No, because the use of Medicare is an example of how socialism has helped ruin the medical system.

Medicare stipulates payments to the healthcare industry. This makes the costs associated with running a hospital or a healthcare center hard to recoup if you cannot charge the cost of your services. Since the government will not bend on the charges, you look at the people who do pay (insurance companies) and demand more money from them. This increases premiums and deductibles on the customers of the insurance companies.

Now, we are getting into the subject of healthcare and I already know the talking points are going to start coming out. I am going to stop even discussin this.

Point is that socialism does not work. There is no such thing as a free lunch and socialism prices out comparative advantage. This results in shortages in supply as demand increases with no way to stop it without rationing. That is the point.

A.Huerta
03-10-2010, 11:27 AM
How much pay do you want? Do you want 3 cars? A 2 million dollar Home?

People need to start realizing that shit is all a waste and pointless. People in general are just greedy for no damn reason. If I can live comfortably as an artist, I'm set. And there are people who become doctors because they want to help others and not really for the money. Things have a way of balancing themselves out, but if youre worrying about getting more money, youre just part of the problem.

CPA
03-10-2010, 11:28 AM
Again, you are equating a desire for a healthy mix as an all or nothing scenario. We already have successful socialist programs in this country, up to and including Medicare.

Why do you continue to assume that this would lead to socialism across the board, when it very clearly hasn't already? That just seems like succumbing to fear of word over actual reasoning.

Medicare is bankrupt. How does that work?

I am not assuming across the board. There is no mix that works. Europe is trying it and has seen its growth come to almost zero. There is always high unemployment.

CPA
03-10-2010, 11:30 AM
How much pay do you want? Do you want 3 cars? A 2 million dollar Home?

People need to start realizing that shit is all a waste and pointless. People in general are just greedy for no damn reason. If I can live comfortably as an artist, I'm set. And there are people who become doctors because they want to help others and not really for the money. Things have a way of balancing themselves out, but if youre worrying about getting more money, youre just part of the problem.


Why is wanting money so bad? If you don't want stuff, more power to you. If my pursuit of happiness is money, why should I not be able to obtain it? you have the same opportunity, but have decided to abstain which is your option.

I am happy to hear that you can live in a certain situation, but why do you think others should also.

A.Huerta
03-10-2010, 11:40 AM
Why is wanting money so bad? If you don't want stuff, more power to you. If my pursuit of happiness is money, why should I not be able to obtain it? you have the same opportunity, but have decided to abstain which is your option.

I am happy to hear that you can live in a certain situation, but why do you think others should also.

Wanting money to live is fine, its when you start getting greedy is when it becomes a problem.

Jason California
03-10-2010, 11:41 AM
Wanting money to live is fine, its when you start getting greedy is when it becomes a problem.


How do you qualify greedy? What is the line? What are we supposed to do with the greedy?

edwardmblake
03-10-2010, 11:42 AM
Galbraith Wept!

A.Huerta
03-10-2010, 11:46 AM
How do you qualify greedy? What is the line? What are we supposed to do with the greedy?

people get too caught up with stuff. Its just stuff.

Im sure the parents here can say none of it matters as long as theyre family is healthy and happy.

Jason California
03-10-2010, 11:50 AM
people get too caught up with stuff. Its just stuff.

Im sure the parents here can say none of it matters as long as theyre family is healthy and happy.


SO there is no real way to quantify it. OK.

A.Huerta
03-10-2010, 11:51 AM
SO there is no real way to quantify it. OK.

Its not science. Its common sense.

CPA
03-10-2010, 11:53 AM
Wanting money to live is fine, its when you start getting greedy is when it becomes a problem.

See, you are defining what greedy is which is really none of your business in regards to how much I want.

I mean no disrespect, but why are judging people for making money? If they decide that is what makes them happy, why deny them that as long as it is not illegal?

....and, no it is not common sense. You are dictating this standard, so you must identify it.

Dreg
03-10-2010, 11:53 AM
How do you qualify greedy?

Well, if you're Glen Beck, you probably qualify it by skin pigmentation.

Khrutch
03-10-2010, 11:56 AM
people get too caught up with stuff. Its just stuff.

Im sure the parents here can say none of it matters as long as theyre family is healthy and happy.

As a parent, 'happy and healthy' doesn't put food on the table, clothes on the back or a roof over the head. Everything takes money to have. That is how things work and there is nothing wrong with accumulating as much as you can. I had nothing growing up and it is my goal to give my kids everything I didn't have and much more. I want to leave a legacy for them to have a successful life and be able to pass that on their kids and so on. I don't want to have to just be happy with what I need. I want more than I need to have nice things, take care of my family and help others in the process. The great thing about America is that we have the freedom to achieve as much as we want and there is nothing wrong with doing that.


Well, if you're Glen Beck, you probably qualify it by skin pigmentation.

You brought up race, not Beck, perhaps you are the one who sees things through 'colored' glasses.

CPA
03-10-2010, 11:57 AM
Well, if you're Glen Beck, you probably qualify it by skin pigmentation.

Nice racist reference. That is a quality response for a discussion.:jackoff:

Ryan Elliott
03-10-2010, 12:01 PM
You brought up race, not Beck, perhaps you are the one who sees things through 'colored' glasses.


I don't know WHY I'm surprised, but I am.

Jason California
03-10-2010, 12:01 PM
Well, if you're Glen Beck, you probably qualify it by skin pigmentation.


Since neither of us are Glen Beck that is a pretty stupid answer.

Ryan Elliott
03-10-2010, 12:01 PM
Nice racist reference. That is a quality response for a discussion.:jackoff:


Nice avatar.

A.Huerta
03-10-2010, 12:01 PM
See, you are defining what greedy is which is really none of your business in regards to how much I want.

I mean no disrespect, but why are judging people for making money? If they decide that is what makes them happy, why deny them that as long as it is not illegal?

....and, no it is not common sense. You are dictating this standard, so you must identify it.

But why do you want so much stuff? Thats what I want to know. You guys are usually the ones complaining about money when it comes to government spending and healthcare.

A.Huerta
03-10-2010, 12:03 PM
As a parent, 'happy and healthy' doesn't put food on the table, clothes on the back or a roof over the head. Everything takes money to have. That is how things work and there is nothing wrong with accumulating as much as you can. I had nothing growing up and it is my goal to give my kids everything I didn't have and much more. I want to leave a legacy for them to have a successful life and be able to pass that on their kids and so on. I don't want to have to just be happy with what I need. I want more than I need to have nice things, take care of my family and help others in the process. The great thing about America is that we have the freedom to achieve as much as we want and there is nothing wrong with doing that.



You brought up race, not Beck, perhaps you are the one who sees things through 'colored' glasses.

Happy and healthy means eating daily, having a place to live and family. What is up with the extremes in here.

And this is why I stay out of political threads. It keeps me from drawing... well, gotta draw.

Jason California
03-10-2010, 12:04 PM
Its not science. Its common sense.


What you are doing is making a value judgment. This is not something that is going to be the same across the board so is pretty useless in the context you are using it. Everyone is going to have a different qualifier for greedy. How are you going to implement anything with that?

Ryan Elliott
03-10-2010, 12:04 PM
Happy and healthy means eating daily, having a place to live and family. What is up with the extremes in here.

Look who you're talking to, and that question will make sense.

Jason California
03-10-2010, 12:06 PM
But why do you want so much stuff? Thats what I want to know. You guys are usually the ones complaining about money when it comes to government spending and healthcare.


What is to much stuff? If I have a 50 inch TV, a 360, PS3, and a Wii am I greedy becuase I could have used all or some of it to help out a poor person?

AM I greedy if I have a truck, car, and a boat?

AM I greedy if I want a third plate of food?

AM I greedy if I can afford and do go on more than 1 vacation a year?

CPA
03-10-2010, 12:07 PM
But why do you want so much stuff? Thats what I want to know. You guys are usually the ones complaining about money when it comes to government spending and healthcare.

Because it is our money. See, we do not think it is bad to make money or want it, so we can complain when someone takes our money that we worked for and spends it.

You are the implying that we make too much money or are greedy for wanting it. You have set the standard, what is too much? Two cars? More than one bedroom per person? You are saying that people should not be greedy, so define your comment. You have some idea.

See in the end, you would not like anyone telling you how much you can make or limiting your opportunity. That is why you will not put limits on it.

In the end, go do what makes you happy and do not worry how everyone else chooses to live their lives.

Brother Power the Gong
03-10-2010, 12:08 PM
Why is wanting money so bad? If you don't want stuff, more power to you. If my pursuit of happiness is money, why should I not be able to obtain it? you have the same opportunity, but have decided to abstain which is your option.

I am happy to hear that you can live in a certain situation, but why do you think others should also.

Jesus has a problem with greed — and his believers should, too.

CPA
03-10-2010, 12:11 PM
Look who you're talking to, and that question will make sense.

Hahaha

Some people are so easy to see through because of your simplistic thought. Do not agree? Call names and define as extreme. Cannot support your argument? Repeat prior steps.

We are simply asking AHuerta to explain his position and define his terms. He thinks that they are fair and does not understand our position. We have explained how we feel and are only asking him to define his. I do not think that is extreme in any way.

Ryan Elliott
03-10-2010, 12:14 PM
Hahaha

Some people are so easy to see through because of your simplistic thought. Do not agree? Call names and define as extreme. Cannot support your argument? Repeat prior steps.

We are simply asking AHuerta to explain his position and define his terms. He thinks that they are fair and does not understand our position. We have explained how we feel and are only asking him to define his. I do not think that is extreme in any way.


Thank you, 7 of 9.
http://sandalsandsocks.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/28/borg.jpg

costello
03-10-2010, 12:21 PM
As a parent, 'happy and healthy' doesn't put food on the table, clothes on the back or a roof over the head. Everything takes money to have. That is how things work and there is nothing wrong with accumulating as much as you can. I had nothing growing up and it is my goal to give my kids everything I didn't have and much more. I want to leave a legacy for them to have a successful life and be able to pass that on their kids and so on. I don't want to have to just be happy with what I need. I want more than I need to have nice things, take care of my family and help others in the process. The great thing about America is that we have the freedom to achieve as much as we want and there is nothing wrong with doing that.



1. You need to be careful. The worst kids I've ever taught were the ones with parents who "had nothing growing up," and it was their goal to give their kids "everything" they "didn't have and more." The parents created a sense of entitlement and the kids didn't respect themselves, their parents, the value of education, and the value of hard work.

What you have are noble goals, but be sure to not just give everything to your kids. Make them work for it. Make them appreciate responsibility.

2. If people are all for making money without fleecing other individuals, I'm for it. The moment brainwashing, guilt trips, lying, cheating, and stealing are involved, I don't think it's right. People should be able to make as much money as they please and use that money as they please. I don't think people should have a government mandating that they help one another out. These should be values instilled in the community. People should give because they want to give.

3. As for Glen Beck, I don't trust people who laugh and say the harsh winter we're having is a sign that there is no global warming. They obviously didn't pay attention in science class. That's the same sort of falsifying of information that leads people to believe that when the Earth is closest to the sun, North America is experiencing summer. People should actually take the time to study science and not just go with their gut instincts. They may find things work quite differently than they imagine them to.

A.Huerta
03-10-2010, 12:22 PM
Because it is our money. See, we do not think it is bad to make money or want it, so we can complain when someone takes our money that we worked for and spends it.

You are the implying that we make too much money or are greedy for wanting it. You have set the standard, what is too much? Two cars? More than one bedroom per person? You are saying that people should not be greedy, so define your comment. You have some idea.

See in the end, you would not like anyone telling you how much you can make or limiting your opportunity. That is why you will not put limits on it.

In the end, go do what makes you happy and do not worry how everyone else chooses to live their lives.

My main problem is with you guys that like so much "stuff" but complain about health care and are so "tight", when in fact we're talking about lives here. Other peoples health, not another house or another beamer, but someones life. In my opinion, people should come first even if you dont know them.

Im not even religious and I think this way. I must be crazy.

costello
03-10-2010, 12:29 PM
My main problem is with you guys that like so much "stuff" but complain about health care and are so "tight", when in fact we're talking about lives here. Other peoples health, not another house or another beamer, but someones life. In my opinion, people should come first even if you dont know them.

Im not even religious and I think this way. I must be crazy.


OK, but there are people who are impovershed who have a great deal of "stuff." There are people who are impovershed that buy "stuff" before taking care of basic human needs.

It's not as simple as "the guy who makes more money has more stuff."

Also, for clarification, I don't make much money--not nearly enough to support myself, and I make a great deal of donations every year.

CPA
03-10-2010, 12:31 PM
My main problem is with you guys that like so much "stuff" but complain about health care and are so "tight", when in fact we're talking about lives here. Other peoples health, not another house or another beamer, but someones life. In my opinion, people should come first even if you dont know them.

Im not even religious and I think this way. I must be crazy.

You still sit in judgment about how much people make. Define it in hard terms.

Why is this so hard for you?

A.Huerta
03-10-2010, 12:32 PM
OK, but there are people who are impovershed who have a great deal of "stuff." There are people who are impovershed that buy "stuff" before taking care of basic human needs.

It's not as simple as "the guy who makes more money has more stuff."

Youre talking about the ghetto fabulous, people? They dont have money but they look like they do. Yeah, they bother me too.

CPA
03-10-2010, 12:38 PM
Thank you, 7 of 9.
http://sandalsandsocks.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/28/borg.jpg

So another demeaning comment from someone that does not agree with me? Surprise...:drool:

A.Huerta
03-10-2010, 12:40 PM
You still sit in judgment about how much people make. Define it in hard terms.

Why is this so hard for you?

You brought up the money but I'm just going by the definition of greed.

Greed - is the desire to have more of something, such as food or money, than is necessary or fair.

Ultimate Lurker
03-10-2010, 12:41 PM
How do you qualify greedy? What is the line? What are we supposed to do with the greedy?

Greed: having or showing a selfish desire for wealth and possessions

CPA
03-10-2010, 12:47 PM
You brought up the money but I'm just going by the definition of greed.

Greed - is the desire to have more of something, such as food or money, than is necessary or fair.

What is necessary or fair?

You brought up excessive money. I am trying to get you to define excessive.

The point is that that definition is different for everyone and no one owes you or anyone else an explanation for there purpose.

If you want more money you can earn it, why deny anyone that ability because it is not fair/necessary by your standards?

Jason California
03-10-2010, 12:56 PM
Greed: having or showing a selfish desire for wealth and possessions


And I get that, however that definition is on a sliding scale depending on who the person defining it is.

There are tons of people I consider greedy, but I am not going to begrudge what they have earned either.

costello
03-10-2010, 12:57 PM
Equal isn't always fair.

CPA
03-10-2010, 01:02 PM
Equal isn't always fair.

:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:

A.Huerta
03-10-2010, 01:03 PM
And I get that, however that definition is on a sliding scale depending on who the person defining it is.

There are tons of people I consider greedy, but I am not going to begrudge what they have earned either.

Tons of people are greedy, a lot of my friends are too. I have no problem with them, tho because they still remember we're all in this together and help out others when its needed. I dont think i could be close friends with anyone who is that selfish and greedy.

costello
03-10-2010, 01:03 PM
Youre talking about the ghetto fabulous, people? They dont have money but they look like they do. Yeah, they bother me too.

I don't think that's what I'm talking about -- but I'm sure that's out there. I'm thinking more of a family that's squeezing two adults and three kids in a single room apartment, the roof's collapsing, the kids don't have proper clothing and they're mal-nourished, but they've got an Xbox 360, 100 games, a PS3, a huge DVD collection, and 52inch plasma TV.

Ghetto fabulous sounds like Revolutionary Road. I grew up with families who looked like they had a lot, acted like they had a lot, but they had 13 maxxed out credit cards.

A.Huerta
03-10-2010, 01:05 PM
I don't think that's what I'm talking about -- but I'm sure that's out there. I'm thinking more of a family that's squeezing two adults and three kids in a single room apartment, the roof's collapsing, the kids don't have proper clothing and they're mal-nourished, but they've got an Xbox 360, 100 games, a PS3, a huge DVD collection, and 52inch plasma TV.

Ghetto fabulous sounds like Revolutionary Road. I grew up with families who looked like they had a lot, acted like they had a lot, but they had 13 maxxed out credit cards.

Ive never seen that but it does sound funny. I'll try to put that visual in my comic. :)

mario
03-10-2010, 01:07 PM
Seems like a good mix of capitalism and socialism makes the most sense.

like the one we have in Europe?`Yeah, I'm down with that