I don't really like the X-Men

[AAlgar]

Okay, I like Astonishing okay because of the writer. Ditto UXM. But on the whole, I'm just not into the X-Men all that much.

This is significant because it has hurt my enjoyment of many a Marvel product, most recently House of M. I'm sure I'm supposed to be shocked and amazed by all the radical changes to all the people in this book, but I either didn't know who half of them were, or didn't know enough about their history to care. It's just too dense a history of convoluted stuff for me.

I don't get how you guys can keep up with it all.

[ds9]

Issue 2 only focused on 4 xmen.

[bstie1198]

I'm with you on not really liking the X-Men. I'm reading Ultimate cause of BKV, but that's it. I haven't had a problem with HoM yet, cause I've known the X-Characters involved so far. If I find the X related tie-ins confusing, I'll drop them after the first issue (or a flip through in the shop), but I don't anticipate the main HoM or the Spider-Man mini to confuse me, and those are the parts I really care about.

[Mike Haseloff]

Issue 2 only focused on 4 xmen.Who are those four, out of interest?

[AAlgar]

I counted more than 4, but I'm at work and don't have the issue in front of me.

Bottom line is, I read quite a few mainstream Marvel titles and I didn't really get everything that was going on.

[Sir Erudite Gav]

I agree with you but then I suppose it’s because I’ve never really read the comics. The only X stories I’ve ever read would be Ultimate X-Men and Astonishing. I find the sheer number and the history quite daunting to start in on and that’s not to mention the number of spin-off’s with minor characters. But that’s my opinion.

Maybe Simi could do a digest?

[Caley Tibbittz]

Okay, I like Astonishing okay because of the writer. Ditto UXM. But on the whole, I'm just not into the X-Men all that much.

This is significant because it has hurt my enjoyment of many a Marvel product, most recently House of M. I'm sure I'm supposed to be shocked and amazed by all the radical changes to all the people in this book, but I either didn't know who half of them were, or didn't know enough about their history to care. It's just too dense a history of convoluted stuff for me.

I don't get how you guys can keep up with it all.I agree -- I never really cared about the X-Men except for the movies, the STNG crossover, and of course Astonishing.

[JHester]

I'm right there with ya. 12-14 years ago I was all about the X but now I can just leave it sitting with the exception of Ultimate and Astonishing and Millar's Wolverine. It just got to be too much to keep up with and at some point it got boring. As far as HoM is concerned thankfully you aren't really missing anything if you don't read the x-books.

[SimiBoyz]

I've no problem with it as I've been reading them for 10 years. So I'm ok.

I think there's far too much gon off in the X-men world to digest. I could digest the world of K-Men easy enough though.

[Randomus]

I haven't read the X-Men since the 80s.

Also I think Astonishing is terrible, but I know I'm alone there.

The X-Men have always tried to toe the line between The Avengers and Dawson's Creek, but since the 90s they've given up on that and just gone full-on soap opera. It's disappointing because they had some great characters, like Beast and... uhm... Beast.

[FredC]

I agree with you but then I suppose it’s because I’ve never really read the comics. The only X stories I’ve ever read would be Ultimate X-Men and Astonishing. I find the sheer number and the history quite daunting to start in on and that’s not to mention the number of spin-off’s with minor characters. But that’s my opinion.

Maybe Simi could do a digest?

Since you like Whedon's X-Men, I highly suggest (if you actually care) Grant Morrison's New X-Men run. It was fantastic, and you didn't need to know all that much backstory on the characters!

[anThONY_s]

Who are those four, out of interest?

Well, from memory, there was Cyclops, Emma Frost, Shadowcat, Gambit, Colossus, Mystique, Storm, and Wolverine. AND I'm probably forgetting some.

Forgot: Beast

[Dreg]

X-Men is pretty hit-or-miss even in the best of circumstances. I think a lot of it's due to the fact that the titles try to do so many different things. Uncanny is a science fiction book, Astonishing is a superhero team book, X-Men is pure soap opera, and New X-Men is the WB drama of the week. They also change gears so fast that it's jarring. Sometimes it's great to read a book that's so experimental, but only when the results don't blow up in your face.

[DonFanucci]

I have a tough time with Xmen comics as well.... the old Byrne/Claremont stuff is cool... although anything by Claremont today I avoid like the plauge..... the Morrison stuff was cool.... I can't get into Astonishing..... I think its Cassiday, I'm not a fan of his art....

I think the best Xbook right now is Millar's Wolvie...

[ds9]

Well, from memory, there was Cyclops, Emma Frost, Shadowcat, Gambit, Colossus, Mystique, Storm, and Wolverine. AND I'm probably forgetting some.

Forgot: BeastMost of those were a one panel fly threw.

[Sir Erudite Gav]

Since you like Whedon's X-Men, I highly suggest (if you actually care) Grant Morrison's New X-Men run. It was fantastic, and you didn't need to know all that much backstory on the characters!

Thanks, but I've loads to read at the moment as it is. One thing I've heard about New X-Men is either you love it or you hate it, there's no middle ground.

[McAfee]

I'm with you, Aal. I get Ultimate because Bendis jumped on (I dropped it at about #20) and Vaughan really isn't capable of writing an uninteresting story. I also like the first trade of Astonishing quite a bit. However, there are just too many of them to keep straight, and in the case of most, they aren't very interesting characters. When they're broken down and written on the individual level, I find them much more enjoyable.

That said, I'm still interested in what is going on in HoM. I just hope it isn't all hype, like most mega-crossovers tend to be.

[Mike Haseloff]

Well, from memory, there was Cyclops, Emma Frost, Shadowcat, Gambit, Colossus, Mystique, Storm, and Wolverine. AND I'm probably forgetting some.

Forgot: BeastOh, so real unknown, hardcore underground characters then. :roll:

If it helps, I dare say any obscures that get a lot of screen time are on their way out. I call culling, still.

[Randomus]

I hope they cull the FUCK out of Beak.

Hate that guy!!!111

[SimiBoyz]

Thanks, but I've loads to read at the moment as it is. One thing I've heard about New X-Men is either you love it or you hate it, there's no middle ground.

I'll agree with that.

And also, I love Whedon's X-Men but Hate Morrison's run.

[Ray G.]

It's a great concept and they've had some great stories, but a combo of overexposure and bad writing really killed my interest in it. I hope they cull the universe a bit and I can still envoy AXM, UXM, and New X-men.

[spencerdidyrmom]

Well, from memory, there was Cyclops, Emma Frost, Shadowcat, Gambit, Colossus, Mystique, Storm, and Wolverine. AND I'm probably forgetting some.

Forgot: Beast


Oh, so real unknown, hardcore underground characters then.

If it helps, I dare say any obscures that get a lot of screen time are on their way out. I call culling, still.


Uh....what? Unknown hardcore underground characters? You're joking, right?

[Mike Haseloff]

Uh....what? Unknown hardcore underground characters? You're joking, right?Yes. The eye rolling smiley is there to suggest sarcasm for people like you.

In some ways, I feel it was the system that failed. Not you. :crazy:

[Ziolko]

I think the X-Men work when done right. The concept is good, it's just usually poorly executed. I think Morrison was the last person to really get it right and actually execute it properly. Whedon's run is okay, but it feels too much like a cover band version of the Claremont/Cockrum run.

[spencerdidyrmom]

Yes. The eye rolling smiley is there to suggest sarcasm for people like you.

In some ways, I feel it was the system that failed. Not you. :crazy:

Oh. Yeah, well, its early, so you know.

[Mike Haseloff]

Oh. Yeah, well, its early, so you know.I'm just messin' with you.


I was just poking fun of the initial post, that said AAlgar was confused because he didn't know the characters intimately. :D

I was surprised that they were all big leaguers.
I really thought with the impending cull (as far as I speculate) they might be giving some of the lesser knowns a big send off. Ala, Blue Beetle in Countdown.

[Dreg]

We're kind of getting that already in GLA. The tragic death of a peripheral character is always better when hilarity ensues.

[RebootedCorpse]

Other than the Grant Morrison run, a brief stint with Claremont/Byrne and a couple of Neal Adams issues -- X-Men has not been good.

[Mike Haseloff]

We're kind of getting that already in GLA. The tragic death of a peripheral character is always better when hilarity ensues.They're killing members of the GLA?! Spoiler-alert! :shock:

[anThONY_s]

Most of those were a one panel fly threw.

House of M #2 spoilers
Cyclops, Emma Frost -- 1 page
Shadowcat -- 1 page
Gambit -- fight took 3 pages
Colossus -- 1 page
Mystique -- 1 full panel, you got me there
Storm -- 1 page
Wolverine -- 2 pages
Beast -- 3 pages

Now, I'm not trying to prove you wrong or anything, I just don't understand... are you trying to say someone wouldn't have to know the X-Men at all for House of M, or that they're not important to the plot? Bendis took quite a bit of time showing what the X-Men are up to in HOM #2.

[spencerdidyrmom]

I'm just messin' with you.


I was just poking fun of the initial post, that said AAlgar was confused because he didn't know the characters intimately. :D

I was surprised that they were all big leaguers.
I really thought with the impending cull (as far as I speculate) they might be giving some of the lesser knowns a big send off. Ala, Blue Beetle in Countdown.

You know the real reason they killed Blue Beetle(because it could have been anyone)...? Legal BS regarding marketing rights over Blue Beetle outside of comic book format with Charleton Comics.

You know why they're doing the Infinite Crisis crossover(besides trying to tell a good story)...? To bring back the alternate universes again that will allow for different types of toys of DC characters, ie Earth 2 Superman alongside regular DCU superman. There is only so many Jim Lee hush figures you can put out, you know.

[Caley Tibbittz]

You know the real reason they killed Blue Beetle(because it could have been anyone)...? Legal BS regarding marketing rights over Blue Beetle outside of comic book format with Charleton Comics.

You know why they're doing the Infinite Crisis crossover(besides trying to tell a good story)...? To bring back the alternate universes again that will allow for different types of toys of DC characters, ie Earth 2 Superman alongside regular DCU superman. There is only so many Jim Lee hush figures you can put out, you know.Feh -- they haven't even gotten to the nude variants yet...

[AAlgar]

House of M #2 spoilers
Cyclops, Emma Frost -- 1 page
Shadowcat -- 1 page
Gambit -- fight took 3 pages
Colossus -- 1 page
Mystique -- 1 full panel, you got me there
Storm -- 1 page
Wolverine -- 2 pages
Beast -- 3 pages

Now, I'm not trying to prove you wrong or anything, I just don't understand... are you trying to say someone wouldn't have to know the X-Men at all for House of M, or that they're not important to the plot? Bendis took quite a bit of time showing what the X-Men are up to in HOM #2.

Yes, and while they may not have been "obscure," (don't think I said they were), I had no idea who most of them were or why I should care. Especially Gambit. I know him as a passing reference, but I have no clue about his actual background. And the Mystique thing seemed like it was a big reveal, and I just didn't get it. Did those two characters have history together? Was I supposed to be shocked? No idea.

I got what was going on with Spidey, Cap, Stark and others. I just really had no clue about all these X-people.

[AAlgar]

Double post, Namor sucks. :crazy:

[anThONY_s]

I got what was going on with Spidey, Cap, Stark and others. I just really had no clue about all these X-people.

I think the point is that they don't have to be a team of mutants that protect a society that fears and hates them and blah blah blah anymore. They are society.

[V-Man]

The X-Men are the olnly superteam with a strong relevance with todays society. I love them. Their not all I love by far, but I love them. But when their badly handled I will drop the book. If you really dont get House of M #2, check out some sources that give character descriptions and histories. Mabye www.uncannyxmen.net (www.uncannyxmen.net)

I didnt find HoM confusing at all, and I dont really know about Carol Danvers or Wonder Man that much.

[Race]

You are dead to me . . .



. . . until next week. :blurp:

I agree with the assesments about them being a society now and how the focus on the school and the kids being taught there was novel at first (NXM), but is now very blah - I mean, seriously, how many times has the "X-mansion" been blown up/crashed into/burned/damaged in some way within the last year alone? A dozen? more? Even Whedon has done it in Astonishing (fav X-title out right now).

This "cast of thousands" they've become is overwhelming and intimidating to new readers and is boring and uninspired to the vetrans who just want stories about their fav character/team, not the mutant "flavor of the month."

But despite all of the "X-flaws," they're still my favorite. Blind fandom is so sad . . .

[spencerdidyrmom]

Feh -- they haven't even gotten to the nude variants yet...

Or All Star S & M Batman and Robin, the Boy Wonder! The greedy bastards just want our money is all...

[AAlgar]

The X-Men are the olnly superteam with a strong relevance with todays society. I love them. Their not all I love by far, but I love them. But when their badly handled I will drop the book. If you really dont get House of M #2, check out some sources that give character descriptions and histories. Mabye www.uncannyxmen.net (http://www.uncannyxmen.net/)

I didnt find HoM confusing at all, and I dont really know about Carol Danvers or Wonder Man that much.

I refuse to do homework to understand a comic book. :no:

[Ben]

The X-Men don't really like you, AAlgar.

[AAlgar]

The X-Men don't really like you, AAlgar.

Is that some kind of a metaphor for racism?

You know, like MUTANTS represent BLACK PEOPLE! Or JEWISH PEOPLE! Or GAY PEOPLE!

Wait, I get it now!

I LOVE the X-Men!!!!!1one

[Randomus]

Did yuo know tahtr Profassor X is teh Martin Luthor King, Janitor and teh Magnetr0n is teh Maclom X?!//1

[sto110]

my biggest problem with x-men comics is that all the storylines over the past 10 years seem to disinigrate to nothing or never really come obout. They fizzle because of writer changes, artist changes, etc etc. The New X-Men storyline, AOA, Phlanex, and Onslaught are the good ones but the rest are eh.

[The Human Target]

I love them as a concept but think the comic suck currently.

Nothing stands up after New X-Men under Morrison.

[Ben Rosen]

I love them as a concept but think the comic suck currently.

Nothing stands up after New X-Men under Morrison.

ding ding ding. though i've been digging AXM.

[The Human Target]

ding ding ding. though i've been digging AXM.

I like Whedon and wanted to love AXM. But its just not amazing. Not bad by any means, but it doesn't blow me away. Its too conservative I think. Doesn't take chances. And its feel like back pedaling after the logical progression that was New X-Men.

[xyzzy]

Yes, and while they may not have been "obscure," (don't think I said they were), I had no idea who most of them were or why I should care. Especially Gambit. I know him as a passing reference, but I have no clue about his actual background. And the Mystique thing seemed like it was a big reveal, and I just didn't get it. Did those two characters have history together? Was I supposed to be shocked? No idea.

I got what was going on with Spidey, Cap, Stark and others. I just really had no clue about all these X-people.

I thought you said you were reading Astonishing? By and large, the X-men that are featured from House of M are from AXM.

I'm not sure what was going on in that scene with Mystique, either. For some reason, I got the impression that Wolverine retained his memories of pre-HOM reality

[J. R. Scherer]

Thanks, but I've loads to read at the moment as it is. One thing I've heard about New X-Men is either you love it or you hate it, there's no middle ground.


I hated Morrison's New X-Men. I picked up a ton of issues before I decided to quit punishing myself. I dropped it in the middle of the storyarc where Cyclops and Wolverine team up with Fantomex to do something with 'The World'. This entire run contains some of the most painful moments for me in the history of X-comics.

Aside from Astonishing, I haven't enjoyed any X-comics since the '80s and I've definitely tried to give them all a fair shake.

[AAlgar]

I hated Morrison's New X-Men. I picked up a ton of issues before I decided to quit punishing myself. I dropped it in the middle of the storyarc where Cyclops and Wolverine team up with Fantomex to do something with 'The World'. This entire run contains some of the most painful moments for me in the history of X-comics.

Aside from Astonishing, I haven't enjoyed any X-comics since the '80s and I've definitely tried to give them all a fair shake.

Yeah, I'm just not a Morrison fan usually, so I don't think I'd like his X run. I think he's a talented motherfucker... he's just not my thing.

[J. R. Scherer]

Yeah, I'm just not a Morrison fan usually, so I don't think I'd like his X run. I think he's a talented motherfucker... he's just not my thing.

Our tastes tend to run in the same directions comic-wise. I'd be very surprised if you liked them.

[CapnChaos]

Since you like Whedon's X-Men, I highly suggest (if you actually care) Grant Morrison's New X-Men run. It was fantastic, and you didn't need to know all that much backstory on the characters!
That's because he didn't give a crap about continuity or getting the characters right. ;)

Anywho... it says something when you have a continuity that's even harder to understand than Hawkmans.

[Adam Witt]

X-Men by LaRocca & Milligan completely buh-lowwws. I don't understand how Milligan keeps getting work.

Uncanny by Claremont and [insert crappy artist here]...I have expressed my disappointment with this is the past [and in my first post]. Claremont is so much better than this.

X-Men Unlimited offers some fun here and there. The Mark Brooks 'after John Byrne' Wolvie cover made me laugh my ass off.

New X-Men fucking sucks.

Astonishing, if not for all the goddamned delays, would be the most unstoppable book on the market.

Astonishing is the WINNAH [like I had to tell anyone that. I felt like exercising my useless opinion]

Bzzt.

[Ray G.]

X-Men by LaRocca & Milligan completely buh-lowwws. I don't understand how Milligan keeps getting work.

Uncanny by Claremont and [insert crappy artist here]...I have expressed my disappointment with this is the past [and in my first post]. Claremont is so much better than this.

X-Men Unlimited offers some fun here and there. The Mark Brooks 'after John Byrne' Wolvie cover made me laugh my ass off.

New X-Men fucking sucks.

Astonishing, if not for all the goddamned delays, would be the most unstoppable book on the market.

Astonishing is the WINNAH [like I had to tell anyone that. I felt like exercising my useless opinion]

Bzzt.

Do you read Ultimate? I seriously think it's better than Astonishing.

[J. R. Scherer]

Do you read Ultimate? I seriously think it's better than Astonishing.

I dropped Ultimate X-Men at the end of Bendis' run. It's another one where I just decided to stop punishing myself.

I take it it got better?

[Ray G.]

I dropped Ultimate X-Men at the end of Bendis' run. It's another one where I just decided to stop punishing myself.

I take it it got better?

Um, yeah. I loathed Millar's run on the title, and Bendis, while better, was just missing that X-factor that he has on USM. Neither of them knew how to write the X-men "young". And that's the best part of Vaughan's run. It really captures the spirit of the original young X-men from the very beginning. He gets what every character should act like, comes up with new and interesting twists on old villains and heroes, and made Gambit cool. You should really pick up the trades of his first two arcs, if you get the chance.

[J. R. Scherer]

Um, yeah. I loathed Millar's run on the title, and Bendis, while better, was just missing that X-factor that he has on USM. Neither of them knew how to write the X-men "young". And that's the best part of Vaughan's run. It really captures the spirit of the original young X-men from the very beginning. He gets what every character should act like, comes up with new and interesting twists on old villains and heroes, and made Gambit cool. You should really pick up the trades of his first two arcs, if you get the chance.

I did read the stuff with the new Mr. Sinister. Was that his?

[Ray G.]

I did read the stuff with the new Mr. Sinister. Was that his?

Yeah, but that was his weakest arc. It got stronger and stronger.

[J. R. Scherer]

Yeah, but that was his weakest arc. It got stronger and stronger.

That's good to hear. I wasn't terribly impressed with that one, but I might look at the trades of the later stuff. I saw he introduced an Ultimate Longshot, though, and that hadn't done much to change my opinion of the book.

[sumopanda]

I've been reading X-men since I was a little kid that liked to play in the dirt and catch lizards, so i'll always be able to read them. Not because all of the books are good (because trust me, they aren't), but because they're a part of me, i've grown up a little with them. All of the characters (well.. almost all) are familiar to me in the same way that Mickey Mouse and Pink Panther are familiar to other people. I can enjoy the X-men's exploits no matter how bad the writing is, or how generic the art gets. Half of the enjoyment is imagination anyways, if you hit a storyline with pot holes all over it, you fill them in with your mind and make the story good :)