I have a question about Tony and his mind. SPOILER INSIDE

[Jason California]

So I got a look at a recent Iron Man, it may have been the latest issue in fact. In it Tony is about to hit his mind reinstalled from a back up. He said he made a backup of his mind before Extremis in case there was a problem with the upgrade.

Now I did not get a chance to read the whole comic so I am not sure how it turned out. Are they reinstalling his mind from the pre extremis brain. or did he make another backup after extremis was sucesful? Are we really getting Tony back without any of the character development since Warren Ellis took over?

I really hope I am wrong, but it seemed to me like Marvel is making a pretty big cop out here.

EDIT
I spoil other things in this thread as well.

[Hate_Prime]

Yeah I think we're going to have a Tony who doesn't remember Civil War, being the director of SHIELD and so on.

Was Extremis before or after he help form New Avengers?

[Jason California]

Yeah I think we're going to have a Tony who doesn't remember Civil War, being the director of SHIELD and so on.

Was Extremis before or after he help form New Avengers?

New Avengers 1 has a release date of January 2005 according Wiki. Extremis was early 2005. so they could have started at the same time, but New Avengers did not come after.

[Kurt Russell Crowe]

that would make it easier for him to buddy up with steve and thor again....maybe

[Dreaded Anomaly]

Maybe the reboot will go horribly wrong and he'll be stuck with the mind of Pre-Onslaught Alternate Universe Teenage Tony. :lol:

[Jason California]

And Cap just gets pardoned by President Obama.

[Jason California]

Maybe the reboot will go horribly wrong and he'll be stuck with the mind of Pre-Onslaught Alternate Universe Teenage Tony. :lol:


I thought of teen Tony as soon as I read it.

This arc of the Marvel Universe does not seem to be ending with the impact that it started out with on New Avengers and Civil War. At least for me.

[Chinaski]

I thought of teen Tony as soon as I read it.

This arc of the Marvel Universe does not seem to be ending with the impact that it started out with on New Avengers and Civil War. At least for me.



They need to synch the comic characters up to their movie versions which will be coming soon - hence Steve back as Cap, Tony not as much of a douchebag as he has been, Thor back in Asgard - and all of them best buds again and on the Avengers.

[Jason California]

They need to synch the comic characters up to their movie versions which will be coming soon - hence Steve back as Cap, Tony not as much of a douchebag as he has been, Thor back in Asgard - and all of them best buds again and on the Avengers.


So lets eschew redemption and just wipe his mind of everything he did since. Marvel said they were not going to make Tony a skrull because that would have been a disservice to the reader. I am not sure how this is much different.

So the MU character can now be buddies with Tony again because he does not remember doing it? He is still the same man that made those decisions his not remembering them does not negate them.

I would have rather seen Tony take the path of redemption instead of this.
I really hope Tony has to take stock of his life after learning what he did. I hope he is horrified by his actions after he finds out what he did. I hope Fraction does something with Tony knowing what he did, but not remembering it and trying to make ammends for it.

[The Zevad]

So lets eschew redemption and just wipe his mind of everything he did since. Marvel said they were not going to make Tony a skrull because that would have been a disservice to the reader. I am not sure how this is much different.

So the MU character can now be buddies with Tony again because he does not remember doing it? He is still the same man that made those decisions his not remembering them does not negate them.

I would have rather seen Tony take the path of redemption instead of this.
I really hope Tony has to take stock of his life after learning what he did. I hope he is horrified by his actions after he finds out what he did. I hope Fraction does something with Tony knowing what he did, but not remembering it and trying to make ammends for it.

The dude erased his freaking brain so Norman Osborn wouldn't get the secret identities of the heros. Not full redemptions but hell I think that leads to a path of one at least.

[Jason California]

The dude erased his freaking brain so Norman Osborn wouldn't get the secret identities of the heros. Not full redemptions but hell I think that leads to a path of one at least.

You have a good point there, The Zevad. Tony did give up everything to protect valuable information from the bad guys.

I have not been reading Iron Man much over the last year plus. Did Tony regret his action in Civil War before he did the wipe? Did decide he took the wrong actions on registration or did he have the same opinion, that had he had to make the same decision again, he would?

If not, I still give him credit for living up to his responsibilities, but do not think he redeemed himself for previous actions.

[WhindamPryce]

I reeeeally don't think a writer of Fraction's caliber going to take such an easy way out as to revert Tony to pre-CW. For one, it'd render his own run pretty inconsequential if Tony doesn't even remember any of it.

[Taxman]

One thing which is confusing that people tend to forget is that New Avengers #1 was supposed to be set six months after Avengers Finale, originally. I think for a while there were four different "presents" represented in comics Marvel put out in a given month.

Re-looking over some of the issues, I think Iron Man first wore the Extremis Armor in The Sentry arc of New Avengers. It is tough to tell though.

[Jason California]

I reeeeally don't think a writer of Fraction's caliber going to take such an easy way out as to revert Tony to pre-CW. For one, it'd render his own run pretty inconsequential if Tony doesn't even remember any of it.


By golly I hope you are right Whindam.

[Hate_Prime]

You have a good point there, The Zevad. Tony did give up everything to protect valuable information from the bad guys.

I have not been reading Iron Man much over the last year plus. Did Tony regret his action in Civil War before he did the wipe? Did decide he took the wrong actions on registration or did he have the same opinion, that had he had to make the same decision again, he would?

If not, I still give him credit for living up to his responsibilities, but do not think he redeemed himself for previous actions.

Bendis and Maleev's The Confession. He told Cap's cadaver it wasn't worth it.

[Jason California]

Bendis and Maleev's The Confession. He told Cap's cadaver it wasn't worth it.


THat is another good point. I forgot about that. I though I remembered him saying that he would do it all again somewhere. I will have to go look at some books after work today.

[xclk07]

In #20- I think the dialog spells this out pretty clearly as Tony says, "Do you want me back? Can you forgive me? Because, Here's the thing- I'm not apologizing. What happened, happened, and it happened because it happened and there's that. And you shouldn't apologize either. What's past is prologue."

So... yeah... the other heroes choose to forgive him BECAUSE of what happened with Civil War, etc. not in SPITE of it.

[Jason California]

In #20- I think the dialog spells this out pretty clearly as Tony says, "Do you want me back? Can you forgive me? Because, Here's the thing- I'm not apologizing. What happened, happened, and it happened because it happened and there's that. And you shouldn't apologize either. What's past is prologue."

So... yeah... the other heroes choose to forgive him BECAUSE of what happened with Civil War, etc. not in SPITE of it.


Sorry, I am not following. How is it that the choose to forgive him because of Civil War?

[WhindamPryce]

In #20- I think the dialog spells this out pretty clearly as Tony says, "Do you want me back? Can you forgive me? Because, Here's the thing- I'm not apologizing. What happened, happened, and it happened because it happened and there's that. And you shouldn't apologize either. What's past is prologue."

So... yeah... the other heroes choose to forgive him BECAUSE of what happened with Civil War, etc. not in SPITE of it.

That was my favorite bit from the entire Fraction run. :)


Sorry, I am not following. How is it that the choose to forgive him because of Civil War?

I think he meant to say "choose to forgive him FOR Civil War"...?

[xclk07]

Right- choose to forgive him FOR everything because Tony isn't apologizing.

Tony says everyone got to the point where they are (currently) because of everything that has happened and no-one should apologize. The question is, what do they do now ("the past is prologue)? Choose to forgive him and "reboot" him? Ultimately, yes.

I wasn't clear in the other post. Sorry.

[WhindamPryce]

I mean, I COULD see it working. Like, obviously the heroes (or at least the main offended parties like Cap & Thor) have forgiven Tony for CW. So that arc for Tony's character has been resolved. So having him start with a clean slate wouldn't negate anything. I mean, I'm sure nu-Tony could just watch some tv and catch up on everything he did since he made the backup copy, so it's not like he'd be lost and wouldn't remember his actions or even repeat them.

But I just don't see the upside to this. What do we GAIN by him being pre-CW? His core personality wouldn't be any different. And like I said he could just catch up on everything that he's missed out on. So what does the book/character gain by being Tony 2.0? I guess the emotional stuff like him & Pepper would be lost...?

Hmm...

[Mark Mavro (kryptic6)]

Tony being "a douchebag" as people have stated was the best character development he's seen in a decade. It'd be a shame for him to suddenly not remember the mistakes he's made. How does one learn from them, then? How do you not repeat the mistakes you don't remember making? Of course, I trust in Fraction, so I won't jump to conclusions.

[DrMachine]

Extremis was a fully body modification, not just a consciousness thing. So regardless of when the backup was made he should still have the extremis upgrade.

[Hate_Prime]

Extremis was a fully body modification, not just a consciousness thing. So regardless of when the backup was made he should still have the extremis upgrade.

The skrulls broke his extremis.

[DrMachine]

The skrulls broke his extremis.

I forgot about that.

[The Governor]

In #20- I think the dialog spells this out pretty clearly as Tony says, "Do you want me back? Can you forgive me? Because, Here's the thing- I'm not apologizing. What happened, happened, and it happened because it happened and there's that. And you shouldn't apologize either. What's past is prologue."

So... yeah... the other heroes choose to forgive him BECAUSE of what happened with Civil War, etc. not in SPITE of it.

If I had a friend who I'd fallen out with and while clearing the air he said "here's the thing" I would repeatedly beat him about the head and neck until he was dead.