The MLB HOT STOVE Thread [Archive] - Page 5

mike black

01-26-2010, 04:34 PM

Jesus Christ, when people are actually talking about your franchise emulating THE JETS in order to improve, you know you're in trouble.

I'm I the only one even remotely optimistic about this upcoming season?

Everyone's shitting all over them because of the way the past few years have shaken out, but I look at it like this - The bullpen's been patched up, we're still an offensive juggernaut, if we stay healthy we'll be in it again this year.

The past three have been flukes. We walked all over the Phillies all year to fall apart in the end for horseshit. We're almost there. We can do it.

yeamon

01-26-2010, 06:07 PM

Heh. Pointed out by Henry Schulman (Giants' beat writer).

Ben Sheets signs for one year/$10 Million with the A's after not pitching last year.

If Lincecum loses arbitration he'll make $2 Million less than Ben Sheets this year.

Consider me one of those who drank the Billy Beane kool-aid after reading "Moneyball". But I can't figure out these moves he's making (first Holliday last season and now Sheets). The only explanation that makes sense (and it does make a little sense) is that these small market teams are making a big effort to spend their revenue sharing dollars, so when it comes back up for owners negotiations, the big market teams can't accuse the little guys of pocketing the cash. Helps explain the Sheets deal and the Reds dumping a bunch of cash on an unproven Cuban pitcher.

lonesomefool

01-26-2010, 06:21 PM

Consider me one of those who drank the Billy Beane kool-aid after reading "Moneyball". But I can't figure out these moves he's making (first Holliday last season and now Sheets). The only explanation that makes sense (and it does make a little sense) is that these small market teams are making a big effort to spend their revenue sharing dollars, so when it comes back up for owners negotiations, the big market teams can't accuse the little guys of pocketing the cash. Helps explain the Sheets deal and the Reds dumping a bunch of cash on an unproven Cuban pitcher.

I like the Sheets deal more than the Holiday deal, if only because worst case scenario is they threw money away. The Holiday deal was dumber because they gave up a decent outfield prospect, a back end of the rotation starter and a closer when everyone pretty much knew they could compete in that division.

That being said, I think you are right about the revenue dollars. After all, I dont think it's a coincidence that the MLB and MLBPA sends out a letter to the Marlins basically calling them out on their bullshit and they hand Josh Johnson and perhaps soon Dan Uggla new deals.

lonesomefool

01-26-2010, 06:24 PM

ArttyG12

01-26-2010, 06:32 PM

En Sabah Poo

01-26-2010, 08:33 PM

JMP

01-26-2010, 08:54 PM

I dunno, I think both deals made sense - Beane got prospects back for Holliday when it became clear they couldn't compete. Sheets, same thing - worst case he gets hurt and they lose the money, but otherwise they compete and he helps (in a WIDE open division) or he gets traded for more prospects.

I agree on the reasoning behind the signing, I just think the reported price ($10MM plus incentives) is pretty high for a player who didn't pitch at all last year. But I guess if they just had some spare cash it's still a decent enough deal.

King of Mars

01-26-2010, 10:18 PM

I just dont see the Rotation having enough quality arms outside of Johan to keep them in it.

They shoulda been in on Sheets and Jon Garland.

Dan

01-27-2010, 04:48 AM

I am admittedly a pessimist by nature, but really, the Mets have done nothing to improve. They swapped out Delgado for Jason Bay at this point.

My one comfort is that at least this year, the Mets can only pleasantly surprise me, as opposed to every other year, where they crush my soul.

Joe Kalicki

01-27-2010, 06:03 AM

Wow, Sheets is going to make a million dollars a start!

Buk Was Right

01-27-2010, 08:42 AM

I'm stoked the Twins were able to get Jim Thome at such a reasonable price. If they play smart by platooning him with Delmon against righties, the Twins top 7 are going to be monstrous. Against righties Thome is very much the equivalent of Justin Morneau.

Here's hoping they don't just relegate him to a bench role and will realize his total usefulness.

I didn't even realize that that deal had happened. Did they sign him recently? Or did it just slip past me early in the off season?

Wow, Sheets is going to make a million dollars a start!

You're counting Spring Training starts?

Jonny Z

01-27-2010, 08:45 AM

Jesus Christ, when people are actually talking about your franchise emulating THE JETS in order to improve, you know you're in trouble.

:(

I hate to admit it but it's how I feel... There's just no spark there for me right now. I have fonder memories of the Bobby Bonilla era than I do last year.

ok, maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit.

DaGetHighKnight

01-27-2010, 10:24 AM

I just dont see the Rotation having enough quality arms outside of Johan to keep them in it.

I also question the offensive juggernaut comment, the Mets can be pretty good there, but I would hardly call them a juggernaut.

Agree 100%, I dont know what Met team Mikes been watching but I want to watch that team too=)

07 they were the best team in the division till the last 17 games
08 The Phills hung real close all year
09 Injuries
The first two of those years had a lack of clutch/situational hitting and some basic fundamentals that kept them out of the playoffs except for 09 cause they were dead after the All Star Break....

10 I have no real expectations so I can only be pleasantly surprised.

Mr. Dave

01-27-2010, 10:48 AM

If the Mets get everyone back healthy they will be a much better club. I think the Phillies have really put some space between them and the rest of the division but injuires are what screwed up the Mets last year. The Mets should definitely be in the Wild Card hunt this year if Beltran, Reyes, Wright, Santanna and K-Rod stay on the field. Even with Luis Castillo sucking the life out of the middle infield they are better than they played last year.

ArttyG12

01-27-2010, 10:53 AM

Why does everyone hate on Castillo? He's a middle infielder who gets on base and has decent speed...He's been bad defensively for the past two years, but he's by no means a killer.

Mr. Dave

01-27-2010, 11:34 AM

Why does everyone hate on Castillo? He's a middle infielder who gets on base and has decent speed...He's been bad defensively for the past two years, but he's by no means a killer.

I loved the guy with the Marlins and his breif stint with the Twinkies. But I have not paid attention to him since he went to NY and now all I ever hear about him is how bad he is and how much the Mets want to get rid of him but can't because he is so expensive. I like Orlando Hudson better myself.

DaGetHighKnight

01-27-2010, 11:44 AM

Why does everyone hate on Castillo? He's a middle infielder who gets on base and has decent speed...He's been bad defensively for the past two years, but he's by no means a killer.

nuff said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmqPFu-eUz4&feature=related

DAVE

01-27-2010, 12:17 PM

I'm I the only one even remotely optimistic about this upcoming season?

Everyone's shitting all over them because of the way the past few years have shaken out, but I look at it like this - The bullpen's been patched up, we're still an offensive juggernaut, if we stay healthy we'll be in it again this year.

The past three have been flukes. We walked all over the Phillies all year to fall apart in the end for horseshit. We're almost there. We can do it.

Yes, yes you are :)

For me it has doesn't have to do exactly with how the last few years turned out, it's more about the same reactionary/pollyanna philosophies that have sunk this team over the last few years being repeated time and time again. Omar Minaya is still acting like 2006 just ended, and the disasterous 2007, 2008 and 2009 seasons haven't. Minaya talks about building a team based on "speed, defense and pitching" and he's acquired none of that. "if we're healthy we'll compete" he says and the team is already NOT healthy! I have no reason to believe any thing any one in the organization says about Beltran, and by extension Reyes. We don't have a first basemen, nor a pitching rotation. I'm also concerned about the bullpen.

As was said by others, maybe it'll be good not going into the season as a favorite- maybe they'll surprise me. But I'll tell you this- this is the first season since '05 that I'm not getting a a ticket plan. I'll watch them everyday, but I don't trust them.

SteveFlack

01-27-2010, 12:19 PM

nuff said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmqPFu-eUz4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy0tBBVhBAw

I love this view from the bleachers.

DAVE

01-27-2010, 12:26 PM

The Yankees have signed 35–year-old, free-agent OF Randy Winn to a one-year deal, probably worth around $2 million, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post.

As Metsblog's Matt Cerrone said:

…so, the Mets could have had winn and Brian Stokes, for $2.5 million, as opposed to no stokes and Gary Matthews Jr. for $1 million… got it…

Jonny Z

01-27-2010, 01:01 PM

Yes, yes you are :)

For me it has doesn't have to do exactly with how the last few years turned out, it's more about the same reactionary/pollyanna philosophies that have sunk this team over the last few years being repeated time and time again. Omar Minaya is still acting like 2006 just ended, and the disasterous 2007, 2008 and 2009 seasons haven't. Minaya talks about building a team based on "speed, defense and pitching" and he's acquired none of that. "if we're healthy we'll compete" he says and the team is already NOT healthy! I have no reason to believe any thing any one in the organization says about Beltran, and by extension Reyes. We don't have a first basemen, nor a pitching rotation. I'm also concerned about the bullpen.

As was said by others, maybe it'll be good not going into the season as a favorite- maybe they'll surprise me. But I'll tell you this- this is the first season since '05 that I'm not getting a a ticket plan. I'll watch them everyday, but I don't trust them.

I'm almost hoping for a bad year so Omar can be kicked to the curb along with Jerry Manuel. Gangstas off the field, on the unemployment line.

DAVE

01-27-2010, 01:06 PM

I'm almost hoping for a bad year so Omar can be kicked to the curb along with Jerry Manuel. Gangstas off the field, on the unemployment line.

I don't think you have to hope. Unfortunatly, it's looking like Jeffie Wilpon has been the one making the decisions for a while anyway, and they can't fire him.

Jonny Z

01-27-2010, 01:13 PM

I don't think you have to hope. Unfortunatly, it's looking like Jeffie Wilpon has been the one making the decisions for a while anyway, and they can't fire him.

you know what we need? Another Bernie Madoff. The first one didn't do a good enough job.

PeterSparker

01-27-2010, 01:19 PM

The Yankees have signed 35–year-old, free-agent OF Randy Winn to a one-year deal, probably worth around $2 million, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post.

As Metsblog's Matt Cerrone said:
Too bad Damon wouldn't come down off his price for one more go-around.

PeterSparker

01-27-2010, 01:21 PM

I don't think you have to hope. Unfortunatly, it's looking like Jeffie Wilpon has been the one making the decisions for a while anyway, and they can't fire him.

So this whole Knicks comparrison isn't completey off then...

DAVE

01-27-2010, 05:43 PM

So this whole Knicks comparrison isn't completey off then...

Yeah, except the Knicks are actually halfway decent this season.

Dan

01-28-2010, 04:35 AM

Also, the Knicks never underperform. They've had pretty crappy teams on paper and reality for quite some time now :) The Mets at least looked good on paper for the last 3years, until now.

ArttyG12

01-28-2010, 06:57 AM

Don't know if its really his or not, but Jim Thome's Twitter is fantastic:

DO YOU GUYS KNOW WHERE I CAN FIND PRINCE'S HOUSE?
1:10 PM Jan 22nd from Brizzly
Note that's 4 days or so before he actually signed.

OL JIMBO HAD HIS APPEARANCES CUT SHORT WHEN HE MOVED OUT TO LA TOO CONAN
1:16 PM Jan 12th from Brizzly

I WOULD LIKE TO ADMIT TO THE USAGE OF HAM TO HELP ME HIT LOTS OF DINGERS
1:08 PM Jan 11th from Brizzly

http://twitter.com/JimThome

DAVE

01-28-2010, 07:34 AM

This is good news, via Metsblog:

McFadden’s, which will soon be opening a new bar in Citi Field, accessible from the street and from inside the ballpark
Because something tells me I'm gonna want to be more drunk during Mets games this season.

DAVE

01-28-2010, 07:35 AM

you know what we need? Another Bernie Madoff. The first one didn't do a good enough job.

By the way, I meant to tell you this was an amazing post. :)

PeterSparker

01-28-2010, 07:38 AM

Don't know if its really his or not, but Jim Thome's Twitter is fantastic:

Note that's 4 days or so before he actually signed.

http://twitter.com/JimThome

Gold! I can only hope those are real.

Your Pal, Carl

01-29-2010, 03:58 PM

Single game tickets are already starting to go on sale in some cities?! I gotta start making plans!

Magnum V.I.

01-29-2010, 04:26 PM

Single game tickets are already starting to go on sale in some cities?! I gotta start making plans!

Denver for sure!

Your Pal, Carl

01-29-2010, 04:43 PM

Denver for sure!

Wednesday April 14th against the Mets. Mark it down! :)

Buk Was Right

02-01-2010, 10:54 AM

Richly deserved: http://community.baseballhall.org/Page.aspx?pid=627

I love Jon Miller. Sometimes I almost enjoy a rain delay if The Big Kahuna is in the booth. Often it's more entertaining than the game.

DAVE

02-01-2010, 11:15 AM

Buk Was Right

02-01-2010, 11:16 AM

Best voice in baseball. I wish they'd pair him up with someone not awful on ESPN.

Like Joe Buck?

Shane W

02-01-2010, 12:27 PM

Did I just hear that correctly? Mauer signed a 10-year extension? This scares the living fuck out of me with the Pujols contract looming after '11.

En Sabah Poo

02-01-2010, 12:27 PM

Sounds like a Joe Mauer contract extension is all but done. Years and price agreed upon. Now if the Twins will just make that final push to sign Orlando Hudson I'd feel pretty great going into spring training.

En Sabah Poo

02-01-2010, 12:29 PM

Did I just hear that correctly? Mauer signed a 10-year extension? This scares the living fuck out of me with the Pujols contract looming after '11.

That's the rumor. Its probably about a 250-300 million dollar contract.

Shane W

02-01-2010, 12:32 PM

That's the rumor. Its probably about a 250-300 million dollar contract.

Oh, now that's fucked. 25/30 million a year? Christ-on-a-stick!

En Sabah Poo

02-01-2010, 12:34 PM

Oh, now that's fucked. 25/30 million a year? Christ-on-a-stick!

That's my guess. I have nothing to base that on. Other than to say he was to be paid 12.5 million this year, which is in my opinion an absolute steal. He signed his 4 year deal before he really exploded. So I can't imagine he's going to have very many cheap years left, unless his deal is really REALLY incentive laden.

But the Twins getting their new stadium, most of which the city paid for, so they have to shell out some dough. It might be closer to 200 million I guess, but still, that's damn reasonable for one of the games best players, let alone a catcher.

Of course, the Twins may have gotten a huge discount since he's a Minneapolis native.

Morneau signed an 80 million dollar 6 year contract in 2008. So I guess its possible Mauer's could be under 200 million. But like I said, if so, that's a steal.

Yorick Brown

02-01-2010, 12:35 PM

That's the rumor. Its probably about a 250-300 million dollar contract.

I'm guessing more in the 200 range.

Shane W

02-01-2010, 12:36 PM

That's my guess. I have nothing to base that on. Other than to say he was to be paid 12.5 million this year, which is in my opinion an absolute steal. He signed his 4 year deal before he really exploded. So I can't imagine he's going to have very many cheap years left, unless his deal is really REALLY incentive laden.

But the Twins getting their new stadium, most of which the city paid for, so they have to shell out some dough. It might be closer to 200 million I guess, but still, that's damn reasonable for one of the games best players, let alone a catcher.

I'm starting to have a hard time seeing how spending 25-33% of your team payroll is a steal.

En Sabah Poo

02-01-2010, 12:38 PM

I'm starting to have a hard time seeing how spending 25-33% of your team payroll is a steal.

Well, the Twins are going to start spending more money. It's not even a question of want, but more of necessity. Their contract players salaries are increasing. Their salary is already 30 million more than last year I believe.

Shane W

02-01-2010, 12:40 PM

Well, the Twins are going to start spending more money. It's not even a question of want, but more of necessity. Their contract players salaries are increasing. Their salary is already 30 million more than last year I believe.

And you know that Mauer won't remain a catcher for his entire career with that kind of contract. I would be surprised if he won't be a 1st basemen by 2012.

Magnum V.I.

02-01-2010, 12:41 PM

Wednesday April 14th against the Mets. Mark it down! :)

I might have to go to the game that day and meet you for a beer before the game starts.

Buk Was Right

02-01-2010, 12:43 PM

Sorry every other team in the league.

The Giants have signed Byung-Hyun Kim to a minor league deal.

En Sabah Poo

02-01-2010, 12:44 PM

And you know that Mauer won't remain a catcher for his entire career with that kind of contract. I would be surprised if he won't be a 1st basemen by 2012.

Yeah, there has been talk of this for years. He's a pretty tall guy, and there was actually talk of him being trained to be a 3B at some point. With Morneau in the way, its unlikely he'd find a place at 1B.

The Twins do have a pretty hot prospect catcher in the minors, so perhaps someday they will prep Mauer for the hot corner. Otherwise, I think his natural talent would be wasted at DH.

Shane W

02-01-2010, 12:50 PM

Yeah, there has been talk of this for years. He's a pretty tall guy, and there was actually talk of him being trained to be a 3B at some point. With Morneau in the way, its unlikely he'd find a place at 1B.

The Twins do have a pretty hot prospect catcher in the minors, so perhaps someday they will prep Mauer for the hot corner. Otherwise, I think his natural talent would be wasted at DH.

And BTW, good for the Twins for making this contract happen.

So say Mauer does have to move to 1st or 3rd, do you still think that contract is worth it? I can understand if he remains a catcher how important and valuable that is, but at another position? IDK.

What scares me is that Pujols is only 3 years older. If Mauer DOES pull in a mega-contract, what will that do for Pujols and the rest of baseball for that matter?

Buk Was Right

02-01-2010, 12:53 PM

Shane W

02-01-2010, 12:56 PM

As far as we know.

true dat, double true.

Magnum V.I.

02-01-2010, 12:58 PM

Shane W

02-01-2010, 01:10 PM

I hope it leads to corporate sponsorship for individual players. They become like the Race Cars in Nascar!!

I totally want to see Albert Pujols wearing a Fig Newton Hat and Jersey and then have to mention Fig Newton every interview ever because they gave the Cards 75 million dollars as part of his contract.

I would prefer Juice Newton hats, but your point is well taken.

En Sabah Poo

02-01-2010, 01:11 PM

And BTW, good for the Twins for making this contract happen.

So say Mauer does have to move to 1st or 3rd, do you still think that contract is worth it? I can understand if he remains a catcher how important and valuable that is, but at another position? IDK.

What scares me is that Pujols is only 3 years older. If Mauer DOES pull in a mega-contract, what will that do for Pujols and the rest of baseball for that matter?

I really don't know. If they sign him to a 15-20 million a year contract, which should be the low end, I think its worth it. Granted we'll be missing a great game calling and defensive catcher, but chances are his hitting may improve if he's not subject to the strain of catching duties every day. Mauer is an OBP machine and his patience at the plate is something the Twins otherwise sorely lack. More than most any other team.

The contract is still not finished as far as the latest word, but if they do sign him, that'll be a big relief. Between that, signing Thome and Clay Condrey, and trading for JJ Hardy, the Twins have had a pretty decent off season. We still just need one more middle infielder though.

yeamon

02-01-2010, 07:59 PM

I really don't know. If they sign him to a 15-20 million a year contract, which should be the low end, I think its worth it. Granted we'll be missing a great game calling and defensive catcher, but chances are his hitting may improve if he's not subject to the strain of catching duties every day. Mauer is an OBP machine and his patience at the plate is something the Twins otherwise sorely lack. More than most any other team.

The contract is still not finished as far as the latest word, but if they do sign him, that'll be a big relief. Between that, signing Thome and Clay Condrey, and trading for JJ Hardy, the Twins have had a pretty decent off season. We still just need one more middle infielder though.

For that money and the rumored 10 years, if I were the Twins, I would announce upon the signing of the deal, that Mauer will no longer be playing catcher.

DAVE

02-04-2010, 10:22 AM

Well, I talked a good game- but today when my buddies asked me, I agreed to get a seat with them on a ticket plan. :surrend:

ArttyG12

02-04-2010, 10:42 AM

Well, I talked a good game- but today when my buddies asked me, I agreed to get a seat with them on a ticket plan. :surrend:

You could also get this inspirational team calendar!
http://www.legendofcecilioguante.com/2010/02/mets-calendar-cute-stocking-stuffer-or.html

DAVE

02-04-2010, 10:45 AM

You could also get this inspirational team calendar!
http://www.legendofcecilioguante.com/2010/02/mets-calendar-cute-stocking-stuffer-or.html

Oh my god, that is so hysterical I may jump out of my window right now.

En Sabah Poo

02-04-2010, 02:26 PM

So word is that Pujols is going to be expecting about 30 million a year in his contract negotiations.

Mauer laughed off the talk of his 10 year deal being done. But it sounds like a deal from 6-8 years worth anywhere from 120-200 million dollars will get done by the start of spring training.

The Twins are also alleged to be on the verge of signing Orlando Hudson. Which would be great news. With Hudson, Hardy, Condrey, Thome, and resigning Mauer, this will be the most successful off season for the Twins in a LOOONG time.

Buk Was Right

02-04-2010, 03:16 PM

LazyComix

02-04-2010, 03:18 PM

Friggin' Twins throwing money around willy-nilly

Shane W

02-04-2010, 03:20 PM

So word is that Pujols is going to be expecting about 30 million a year in his contract negotiations.

This has me torn. I lurve the great and powerful Pujols, but damn, that's a lot of money.

DAVE

02-04-2010, 03:26 PM

This has me torn. I lurve the great and powerful Pujols, but damn, that's a lot of money.

Hey, if they don't, the Mets could always use a first baseman!

Buk Was Right

02-04-2010, 03:33 PM

Buk Was Right

02-04-2010, 03:41 PM

Hey, if they don't, the Mets could always use a first baseman!

I think Pujols' back, ankle, and knee just exploded just by you typing that.

DAVE

02-04-2010, 04:06 PM

I think Pujols' back, ankle, and knee just exploded just by you typing that.

Or it was the HGH.

ArttyG12

02-04-2010, 04:16 PM

This is a really interesting article about the few "replacement players" that hung around in the big leagues and how they're out in the cold when it comes to stuff like appearing on official merch and appearing in video games: http://kotaku.com/5460160/the-replacements-still-replaced-in-video-games

Keith Olbermann responds: http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/01/wrong.html

The whole thing is pretty interesting. I'd imagine the Union doesn't really care anymore, but can't let them back in to set an example for the future.

As an aside, in MVP 05, Bonds (also not in the Union, but for different reasons) was replaced with "John Dowd," which was fun for me since he's a friend of my dad's.

DAVE

02-04-2010, 04:17 PM

The whole thing is pretty interesting. I'd imagine the Union doesn't really care anymore, but can't let them back in to set an example for the future.

As an aside, in MVP 05, Bonds (also not in the Union, but for different reasons) was replaced with "John Dowd," which was fun for me since he's a friend of my dad's.

Hasn't Bonds also been "Joe Young" in a game?

Edit, just saw that in the article.

Buk Was Right

02-04-2010, 04:19 PM

Hasn't Bonds also been "Joe Young" in a game?

And Reggie Stocker.

usagi20

02-04-2010, 04:20 PM

This is a really interesting article about the few "replacement players" that hung around in the big leagues and how they're out in the cold when it comes to stuff like appearing on official merch and appearing in video games: http://kotaku.com/5460160/the-replacements-still-replaced-in-video-games

This isn't unique to baseball. In pretty much any industry where there's a union, the union remembers which members were former scabs. And they only give them the bare minimum of what they're required to do by law and union rules.

En Sabah Poo

02-04-2010, 04:50 PM

This has me torn. I lurve the great and powerful Pujols, but damn, that's a lot of money.

You never know though. There's going to be a glut of free agent 1B next year. I think Pujols, Fielder, and Howard will all be available.

Yorick Brown

02-05-2010, 03:49 AM

En Sabah Poo

02-05-2010, 05:18 AM

...and the Twins sign ODog. What a terrific offseason for them. The lineup will be the best in years and if the pitching comes through...

From the Star Tribune:

1. Denard Span, CF (Left)
2. Orlando Hudson, 2B (Switch)
3. Joe Mauer, C (Left)
4. Justin Morneau, 1B (Left)
5. Jason Kubel, DH (Left)
6. Michael Cuddyer, RF (Right)
7. Delmon Young, LF (Right)
8. J.J. Hardy, SS (Right)
9. Brendan Harris, 3B (Right)

The bench could be Jim Thome (left), Nick Punto (switch), Alexi Casilla (switch), Jose Morales (switch).

BOOM!

Against righties they would be smart to start Thome every day instead of Delmon. In which case, they would probably have the best lineup in baseball.

It should be:
Span
Hudson
Mauer
Morneau
Thome
Kubel
Cuddyer
Hardy
Punto/Harris

Which is an insane lineup.

Doug

02-05-2010, 05:29 AM

You never know though. There's going to be a glut of free agent 1B next year. I think Pujols, Fielder, and Howard will all be available.

Now I want to see Howard on the Mets just to see heads explode in both Philly and NY.

LazyComix

02-05-2010, 05:39 AM

Now I want to see Howard on the Mets just to see heads explode in both Philly and NY.

I was just thinking maybe the Mets are like Bizzarro World. Players who are plagued with injury should go there and maybe they'll be healthy on the Mets. Say Griffy Jr went to the Mets instead of the Reds, he would have 800 home runs by now with like a dozen MVPs.

just an thought

ArttyG12

02-05-2010, 06:36 AM

Against righties they would be smart to start Thome every day instead of Delmon. In which case, they would probably have the best lineup in baseball.

It should be:
Span
Hudson
Mauer
Morneau
Thome
Kubel
Cuddyer
Hardy
Punto/Harris

Which is an insane lineup.

I don't that's as good as the Yankees.

No, that's not an attempt at a jinx. Shut up.

PeterSparker

02-05-2010, 06:41 AM

I don't that's as good as the Yankees.

No, that's not an attempt at a jinx. Shut up.

I hope so. Yeah, Nick Johnson's OPB is tremendous, but I am still concerned that the team and line-up are really going to miss Matsui and his ultra clutch bat. We'll see, and who knows, the Twins may actually win a game against the Yankees this year. :)

ArttyG12

02-05-2010, 06:43 AM

I hope so. Yeah, Nick Johnson's OPB is tremendous, but I am still concerned that the team and line-up are really going to miss Matsui and his ultra clutch bat. We'll see, and who knows, the Twins may actually win a game against the Yankees this year. :)

Honestly, I was comparing the two lineups in my head and didn't even remember Johnson (I was thinking Swisher at 2). Jesus Christ.

Doug

02-05-2010, 06:45 AM

I hope so. Yeah, Nick Johnson's OPB is tremendous, but I am still concerned that the team and line-up are really going to miss Matsui and his ultra clutch bat. We'll see, and who knows, the Twins may actually win a game against the Yankees this year. :)

I'm happy that Matsui left the Yankees on a high note. MVP of the WS!!!!

I'm sad to see him go, but I wish him the best of luck. I will always be a fan of his no matter what uniform he wears.

PeterSparker

02-05-2010, 06:56 AM

I'm happy that Matsui left the Yankees on a high note. MVP of the WS!!!!

I'm sad to see him go, but I wish him the best of luck. I will always be a fan of his no matter what uniform he wears.

Sure, I wish him the best as well. One of my favorite players ever. I just would've been up for one more high note! If Johnson can get even a small number of the big hits Matsui used to get against the Red Sox (especially in Fenway) then they'll be ok, but until then I'll still wish they brought him back for one more year.

Jeter was on MLB Hot Stove the other night, and of all the players he's had to comment on leaving the organization over the years, talking about how much he, and the team, will miss Hideki was the most animated I've probably ever seen him on the topic.

Honestly, I was comparing the two lineups in my head and didn't even remember Johnson (I was thinking Swisher at 2). Jesus Christ.

:)

Doug

02-05-2010, 07:00 AM

Sure, I wish him the best as well. One of my favorite players ever. I just would've been up for one more high note! If Johnson can get even a small number of the big hits Matsui used to get against the Red Sox (especially in Fenway) then they'll be ok, but until then I'll still wish they brought him back for one more year.

Jeter was on MLB Hot Stove the other night, and of all the players he's had to comment on leaving the organization over the years, talking about how much he, and the team, will miss Hideki was the most animated I've probably ever seen him on the topic.

And he also has the distinction of being one of my top 3 most painful injuries to watch.

He's up there with Brian Roberts and Mets Headbut in CF.

yeamon

02-05-2010, 07:26 AM

Keith Olbermann responds: http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/01/wrong.html

A classic line in the comments section to that article...

"It is perhaps puerile to note this, but it would give me great joy to own a 'Steve Sharts' baseball card."

PeterSparker

02-05-2010, 07:33 AM

This has me torn. I lurve the great and powerful Pujols, but damn, that's a lot of money.

Do you think the team and the fan base could come to terms with the idea that maybe they would be better off spreading that cash around to a few other players instead? Could you see Albert and the team actually ever parting ways?

Dan

02-05-2010, 07:42 AM

Do you think the team and the fan base could come to terms with the idea that maybe they would be better off spreading that cash around to a few other players instead? Could you see Albert and the team actually ever parting ways?

The Mets are a good case study for this. They could have spent all that money on A-Rod, but they didn't, and I don't think they could have done any worse with A-Rod than they did without him.

ArttyG12

02-05-2010, 07:43 AM

The Rangers are a good case study for this. They spent all that money on A-Rod and I don't think they could have done any worse without A-Rod than they did with him.

Fixed for comparison's sake.

Dan

02-05-2010, 07:47 AM

Yeah, plus I realize the Mets mess is complicated by the fact that they did spend all that $$ on Beltran :)

LazyComix

02-05-2010, 08:02 AM

The Twins have a good lineup but still ok pitching, no bullpen and a closer who can't close a big game.

PeterSparker

02-05-2010, 08:05 AM

And btw, I wasn't making the case that the Cards would be better, but just judging by Shane's reaction I wonder if that unimaginable scenrio for the fans is now at least imaginable.

It is interesting if Fielder and Howard made it to FA as well, how they all might impact one another. Though I think at least one of those two will be signed before they reach.

ArttyG12

02-05-2010, 08:13 AM

Adrian Gonzalez, too, I believe.

yeamon

02-05-2010, 08:20 AM

The Twins have a good lineup but still ok pitching, no bullpen and a closer who can't close a big game.

Well... anytime they feel like parting with Mr. Nathan, I beg the Twins to please make the first call to the north side of Chicago. Please. No, really... please.

Buk Was Right

02-05-2010, 08:25 AM

The Twins have a good lineup but still ok pitching, no bullpen and a closer who can't close a big game.

Also, they're probably going to be playing hip deep in snow.

DAVE

02-05-2010, 08:26 AM

PeterSparker

02-05-2010, 08:43 AM

Let's say Howard, Pujols, Fielder and Gonzalez all hit the market. It would make for an interesting split between AL and NL. Certain NL teams would have interest in Howard (like the Phils who would want to retain him) and an AL team like the Sox would still have interest in Gonzalez, , and anyone would take Pujols- but I think Gonzalez and Pujols would have a lot more value for NL teams, and an AL team could break the bank without worrying as much about Fielder and Howard when they could use them as DHs.

Howard seems like the most likely to sign before reaching.

But it would still be wild if three of them are all on the market at once. The Mets and Red Sox you'd assume would end up with one each probably. (If the Sox don't trade for Gonzalez before then that is)

JamesV

02-05-2010, 08:45 AM

Also, they're probably going to be playing hip deep in snow.

:lol:

Snow delays will be awesome!

LazyComix

02-05-2010, 08:47 AM

Well... anytime they feel like parting with Mr. Nathan, I beg the Twins to please make the first call to the north side of Chicago. Please. No, really... please.

that's how many bad closers there are that people actually want Joe Nathan. I'm going to be crying in a closet when Mariano retires.

yeamon

02-05-2010, 08:52 AM

that's how many bad closers there are that people actually want Joe Nathan. I'm going to be crying in a closet when Mariano retires.

People actually wanting Joe Nathan has no reflection on how many bad closers there are (I agree there are a lot). It's simply a reflection on how solid Joe Nathan is as a pitcher. Bone chips didn't help him much last season, and the guy was still a solid Save machine.

I'm not going to say you don't know what you're talking about. I'm just going to assume happy hour has arrived early somewhere.

Buk Was Right

02-05-2010, 08:53 AM

that's how many bad closers there are that people actually want Joe Nathan. I'm going to be crying in a closet when Mariano retires.

It's all a matter of perspective really.

If you have Mariano obviously every other closer is going to come up short.

When you trade Joe Nathan for AJ Perzizenskiriag;neidv and wind up with Armando Benitez as your closer things look a little different.

PeterSparker

02-05-2010, 08:55 AM

Yeah, Nathan is no joke.

He's no Mo, but he's no joke.

LazyComix

02-05-2010, 08:58 AM

He's a decent closer, guys. If you want him pitching a 1-run game in the 9th inning of a WS go for it.

I'm not going to say you don't know what you're talking about. I'm just going to assume happy hour has arrived early somewhere.

And I"m going to assume you're not always smart ass.

yeamon

02-05-2010, 09:15 AM

And I"m going to assume you're not always smart ass.

Not always.

And every now and then. No harm meant.

I do find it a testament to how many bad 2nd basemen there are in the league, when so many teams would want Chase Utley.

Ok, now that one was flagrant.

Buk Was Right

02-05-2010, 09:17 AM

Not always.

And every now and then. No harm meant.

I do find it a testament to how many bad 2nd basemen there are in the league, when so many teams would want Chase Utley.

Ok, now that one was flagrant.

It's cool, the Philly fans won't be here until October so no real harm done.

PeterSparker

02-05-2010, 09:19 AM

It's cool, the Philly fans won't be here until October so no real harm done.

Hiyo! :lol:

LazyComix

02-05-2010, 09:27 AM

Nathan is 0-2 with a 7.88 era in the postseason... if you want him in a big spot, go for it.

PeterSparker

02-05-2010, 09:32 AM

Nathan is 0-2 with a 7.88 era in the postseason... if you want him in a big spot, go for it.

Would you have gotten to the post season without him is another part of the equation though.

yeamon

02-05-2010, 09:38 AM

Nathan is 0-2 with a 7.88 era in the postseason... if you want him in a big spot, go for it.

Again... please. I'll take the chance. Bring that loser over heeuh.

LazyComix

02-05-2010, 09:40 AM

Would you have gotten to the post season without him is another part of the equation though.

very true... but then we get into Trevor Hoffman talk, the guy's friggin' all-star ERA is almost 9.

Closers are a funny thing, IMO... they can have great regular season numbers, but there aren't too many you feel really great with in a big spot. Mariano was the only closer last postseason to not blow a game.

PeterSparker

02-05-2010, 09:47 AM

Mariano was the only closer last postseason to not blow a game.

Yes. Yes he was. :heart:

Doug

02-05-2010, 09:55 AM

Yes. Yes he was. :heart:

:heart: :heart:

En Sabah Poo

02-05-2010, 03:38 PM

The Twins have a good lineup but still ok pitching, no bullpen and a closer who can't close a big game.

Well, the starting pitching should be pretty solid. Word is that Liriano may finally be back to form. Baker, Blackburn and Pavano are all relatively solid.

The bullpen will have Condrey added and the return of Neshek will be very helpful.

And let's talk facts here, Nathan had bone chips removed from his elbow in October. Labeling the games current best or second best closer incapable because of an injury is dishonest at best. Not to mention you're basing it upon three games at the end of one season.

En Sabah Poo

02-05-2010, 03:40 PM

that's how many bad closers there are that people actually want Joe Nathan. I'm going to be crying in a closet when Mariano retires.

Do you know anything about teams other than the Yankees? Because this comment is completely ridiculous.

lonesomefool

02-06-2010, 04:04 AM

Well, the starting pitching should be pretty solid. Word is that Liriano may finally be back to form. Baker, Blackburn and Pavano are all relatively solid.

The bullpen will have Condrey added and the return of Neshek will be very helpful.

And let's talk facts here, Nathan had bone chips removed from his elbow in October. Labeling the games current best or second best closer incapable because of an injury is dishonest at best. Not to mention you're basing it upon three games at the end of one season.

Eh, Condrey actually doesnt do much for me. He's obviously better than Bobby Keppel, but he's never missed a lot of bats and those guys tend to get hit eventually, it might take a couple years where they put up decent ERA's, but eventually it catches up to them.

That being said, I like what the Twins have done. They are clearly the best team in that division, Chicago is close, but they are relying on more question marks than the Twins when it comes to contending.

The most shocking thing is that the White Sox actually have way more projected holes in their line up than the Twins do in theirs.

En Sabah Poo

02-06-2010, 06:31 AM

Eh, Condrey actually doesnt do much for me. He's obviously better than Bobby Keppel, but he's never missed a lot of bats and those guys tend to get hit eventually, it might take a couple years where they put up decent ERA's, but eventually it catches up to them.

That being said, I like what the Twins have done. They are clearly the best team in that division, Chicago is close, but they are relying on more question marks than the Twins when it comes to contending.

The most shocking thing is that the White Sox actually have way more projected holes in their line up than the Twins do in theirs.

My thoughts on this off season basically are how teams did last year and what they've done to improve. The Twins put the pressure on the Yankees in two of those three games in the ALDS last year. And this was without Morneau, and with an injured Nathan. Since then, they've also added Hardy, Thome, and Hudson. Now they'll also have two relievers added to the mix with Condrey and Neshek coming back. Few other teams have added as much as the Twins have.

dougmac

02-06-2010, 09:13 AM

My thoughts on this off season basically are how teams did last year and what they've done to improve. The Twins put the pressure on the Yankees in two of those three games in the ALDS last year. And this was without Morneau, and with an injured Nathan. Since then, they've also added Hardy, Thome, and Hudson. Now they'll also have two relievers added to the mix with Condrey and Neshek coming back. Few other teams have added as much as the Twins have.

and they're still in a relatively weak division. Detroit should be ok, but KC and Cleveland and the White Sox shouldn't be able to challenge them. If they stay healthy, they should be able to rest some guys and then they can match up with the big boys of the East and West come playoff time for sure.

Joe Kalicki

02-06-2010, 09:53 AM

and they're still in a relatively weak division. Detroit should be ok, but KC and Cleveland and the White Sox shouldn't be able to challenge them. If they stay healthy, they should be able to rest some guys and then they can match up with the big boys of the East and West come playoff time for sure.

The White Sox pitching is great. If their offense improves on last year they should be contenders.

southsidejohnny

02-07-2010, 07:25 AM

Nathan is 0-2 with a 7.88 era in the postseason... if you want him in a big spot, go for it.
with the exception of the immortal mariano, nathan is the best closer in the game. every year you can find a lights out closer having a career year. nathan is at the top year after year. yes he ran into arod this year. so did fuentes and lidge. no-one was safe from the yanks this past year.
i will take nathan over anyone but mo.

DAVE

02-09-2010, 08:05 AM

Someone at Upper Deck Has a Sense of Humor (http://metspolice.com/?p=12114)

PeterSparker

02-09-2010, 08:26 AM

Someone at Upper Deck Has a Sense of Humor (http://metspolice.com/?p=12114)

:)

Marc Lombardi

02-09-2010, 08:41 AM

It's cool, the Philly fans won't be here until October so no real harm done.
Lies!

ArttyG12

02-09-2010, 08:46 AM

Lies!

He said fans, so far we have fan. :-)

PeterSparker

02-10-2010, 11:52 AM

ESPN hooking me up with a 3:30pm Baseball Tonight out of nowhere while I'm home on a snow day!!!!

Morgan Ensberg just picked The Giants as his number 5 team in the majors!!!

Buk Was Right

02-10-2010, 12:54 PM

ESPN hooking me up with a 3:30pm Baseball Tonight out of nowhere while I'm home on a snow day!!!!

Morgan Ensberg just picked The Giants as his number 5 team in the majors!!!

He's only off by 5!

(I'll let you guess the direction.)

yeamon

02-10-2010, 12:55 PM

I'm heading to Ft. Myers in March and thought I would stop by and say 'hello' to the Minnesota Twins.

Question for those who have done the Spring Break experience: I've been toying with the idea of doing a sketch of Joe Nathan (inspired by our recent conversation in this thread... jk). How available are the players at these games, if I wanted to see if he would sign it?

DAVE

02-10-2010, 01:13 PM

News: Mets sign Mike Jacobs
FEBRUARY 10, 2010 AT 16:49 PM · 58 COMMENTS
by MATTHEW CERRONE
Jon Heyman of SI.com says the Mets have signed free-agent 1B Mike Jacobs to a $900,000 minor-league deal, though he can earn another $1.15 million through incentives.

Heyman says, “He’s got a shot to win that job over Daniel Murphy/Fernando Tatis.”

Even though I know Mike Jacobs sucks, I am happy about this.

ArttyG12

02-11-2010, 07:23 AM

Because it fits the BenBo theme lately:
http://www.theyankeeu.com/2010/02/fans-media-and-racism-without-racists-14913

Doug

02-11-2010, 07:34 AM

Because it fits the BenBo theme lately:
http://www.theyankeeu.com/2010/02/fans-media-and-racism-without-racists-14913

Pedroia is gritty because he plays for the Red Sox, and Cano is aloof because he plays for the Yankees. Plus Pedroia has that cool 5 o'clock shadow. That makes him super gritty.

DAVE

02-11-2010, 07:35 AM

For any NYers listening to the FAN right now, I'm on hold right now to talk about the Mets.

yeamon

02-11-2010, 07:42 AM

Because it fits the BenBo theme lately:
http://www.theyankeeu.com/2010/02/fans-media-and-racism-without-racists-14913

That's as good a blog entry about baseball as I've read. Thank you for posting.

Jonny Z

02-11-2010, 07:46 AM

For any NYers listening to the FAN right now, I'm on hold right now to talk about the Mets.

still on hold? i'm tuning in now

Dan

02-11-2010, 07:47 AM

Would that be with Evan and Joe?

DAVE

02-11-2010, 07:53 AM

still on hold? i'm tuning in now

Would that be with Evan and Joe?

Yup to both. Just told I'd be on soon. Just Evan today.
Hope I don't make an ass of myself.

Doug

02-11-2010, 07:54 AM

Yup to both. Just told I'd be on soon. Just Evan today.

That's really cool.

I'm at work and can't hear it right now though.

Dan

02-11-2010, 07:55 AM

I hope you introduce yourself as Dave from America.

No radio here, what are you planning on complaining about?

Jonny Z

02-11-2010, 07:59 AM

i've been tuned in for like 15 minutes and i've heard like 3 minutes of actual sports talk :(

DAVE

02-11-2010, 07:59 AM

Whhooo hoo, I don't think it went too bad. Should be on in a second! Although I'm listening with a delay.

Jonny Z

02-11-2010, 08:00 AM

bring up Benny Agbayani!

Jonny Z

02-11-2010, 08:01 AM

haha nice job.

DAVE

02-11-2010, 08:01 AM

Just heard it! My New York sports radio debut!

DAVE

02-11-2010, 08:01 AM

bring up Benny Agbayani!

Damn it, knew I forgot something!

Jonny Z

02-11-2010, 08:02 AM

Just heard it! My New York sports radio debut!

i once called mike and the mad dog when i was a kid to talk about how Todd Hundley would be a good player. I think that was my one and only WFAN call.

DAVE

02-11-2010, 08:02 AM

Bottom line, I was agreed with 100%!

Jonny Z

02-11-2010, 08:02 AM

Damn it, knew I forgot something!

now when the Mets lose 90 games this season, i know who to blame!

DAVE

02-11-2010, 08:03 AM

i once called mike and the mad dog when i was a kid to talk about how Todd Hundley would be a good player. I think that was my one and only WFAN call.

I once called ESPN radio to tell Steve Phillips that Brooke Hundley would be a bad pick-up. He disagreed.

Deej

02-11-2010, 08:05 AM

So what topic did you bring up?

Joe Kalicki

02-11-2010, 08:07 AM

I called into Chicago sports talk a couple times. I think once was about David Wells on the Sox. I don't really remember.

DAVE

02-11-2010, 08:12 AM

So what topic did you bring up?

Pointing out what a moot point trading Carlos Beltran is, even though he has a full trade clause.

Dan

02-11-2010, 08:13 AM

I remember when WFAN had just started up, a high school friend of mine was so excited that he got to Schmooze with Steve Somers (back when he was doing the late night show) and we were all so impressed with him. I still would love to schmooze just once!

Buk Was Right

02-11-2010, 08:18 AM

Not to try and steal Dave's thunder or anything, but according to sources Los Gigantes have made the kid an offer: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/02/11/SP291BVJ96.DTL&feed=rss.giants

Three year/$37 million. Apparently the kid's people countered with something just north of $40 million.

Arbitration hearing tomorrow if they don't hammer it out by then.

Jonny Z

02-11-2010, 08:18 AM

I once called ESPN radio to tell Steve Phillips that Brooke Hundley would be a bad pick-up. He disagreed.

:lol:

PeterSparker

02-11-2010, 08:39 AM

I actually mixed it up a few times with Mike and the Mad Dog. I got on the air the day after the Yankees won the series in 1996 and got to celebrate. But even better I had a lengthy argument with Russo over Bernie Williams and Barry Bonds. :lol: This was before Bonds got back into the playoffs with the Giants and actually hit. Russo could never help back in those days to tweak Bernie and drive Yankee fans crazy. He was saying that Bernie wasn't fit to carry Bonds' cleats or something, and I had to call in and point out what Bernie had done in his post-season appearances as opposed to what his guy Bonds did the three years he went with the Pirates. It was fiesty. :)

But, sorry I mssed you today Dave. :(

PeterSparker

02-11-2010, 09:25 AM

Because it fits the BenBo theme lately:
http://www.theyankeeu.com/2010/02/fans-media-and-racism-without-racists-14913

Ok, I just read this and think its pretty interesting. He acknowledges it's so tough to make a specific allegation, and that its unintentionally done for the most part. I agree with all of that.

But, :) his one Paul O'Neil example is as easliy attributed to O'Neil's reputation as a player than to anything else. If he wasn't stigmitized by not running two balls out hard in the 1999 WS, it wouldn't register with most fans or writers because it would be the extreme excpetion to O'Neil's well established "rule" as a true hard nosed "gamer" of a player. I think he might've found some more convincing examples than that one, as I'm sure they exist. But again, I certainly get his delicate point, and understand he's not talking in any kind of absolutes with this stuff. He definitely gets points for even writing about it to begin with.

yeamon

02-11-2010, 09:59 AM

Ok, I just read this and think its pretty interesting. He acknowledges it's so tough to make a specific allegation, and that its unintentionally done for the most part. I agree with all of that.

But, :) his one Paul O'Neil example is as easliy attributed to O'Neil's reputation as a player than to anything else. If he wasn't stigmitized by not running two balls out hard in the 1999 WS, it wouldn't register with most fans or writers because it would be the extreme excpetion to O'Neil's well established "rule" as a true hard nosed "gamer" of a player. I think he might've found some more convincing examples than that one, as I'm sure they exist. But again, I certainly get his delicate point, and understand he's not talking in any kind of absolutes with this stuff. He definitely gets points for even writing about it to begin with.

It's a great topic, and certainly not limited to baseball. College basketball has always been notorious for describing many white players as "hard working" or "scrappy", when in reality they could be described as "unskilled" or "bad at basketball".

ArttyG12

02-11-2010, 10:22 AM

Its not even limited just to writers/fans - David Eckstein still has a major league contract.

yeamon

02-11-2010, 10:24 AM

Its not even limited just to writers/fans - David Eckstein still has a major league contract.

Oh, he's a scrapper. No one works harder to actually get the ball to first base.

And Aaron Rowand is such a grinder, with his propensity for smashing his face against outfield walls.

DAVE

02-11-2010, 10:26 AM

It's a great topic, and certainly not limited to baseball. College basketball has always been notorious for describing many white players as "hard working" or "scrappy", when in reality they could be described as "unskilled" or "bad at basketball".

Chuck Klosterman wrote a great bit on this on ESPN.com a couple years ago.

PeterSparker

02-11-2010, 10:32 AM

Its not even limited just to writers/fans - David Eckstein still has a major league contract.

See, this is what a slippery slope it is to judge people's intentions though. Eckstein has certainly contributed to a handful of winning teams, comes a point where thats not just coincidence imo. (and of course there are other much bigger factors to the winning on those teams, but still)

You'd have to make the case for someone of color who has been denied the chances that Eckstein has had with a similar build and skill set. Not saying that player(s) don't exist, but I can see the reason there would still be a GM giving him a job that goes beyond the color of his skin.

DAVE

02-11-2010, 10:33 AM

Although, now that I think about it, it could've been Malcolm Gladwell.

yeamon

02-11-2010, 10:44 AM

PeterSparker

02-11-2010, 11:00 AM

I don't think the point of the article is to investigate opportunity discrimination. It's about racism in the perception and evaluation of players.

Of course it cuts both ways, when you have idiots like Dusty Baker talking about how Latino and Black players perform better in the heat of summer.

*cough* Omar Minaya *cough*

ArttyG12

02-11-2010, 11:07 AM

See, this is what a slippery slope it is to judge people's intentions though. Eckstein has certainly contributed to a handful of winning teams, comes a point where thats not just coincidence imo. (and of course there are other much bigger factors to the winning on those teams, but still)

You'd have to make the case for someone of color who has been denied the chances that Eckstein has had with a similar build and skill set. Not saying that player(s) don't exist, but I can see the reason there would still be a GM giving him a job that goes beyond the color of his skin.

Well, the whole point is that there is no intent. But Eckstein is a no-hit, no-field player who's been an average MLB hitter once in his career - he has a job because he fits the desription from the article to a T (gritty, maximizes talent, there because of his hard work).

And I think saying his contribution to winning teams is more than a coincidence is like saying Jason Marquis has magic playoff powers (only that's obviously true :) ).

I also read the Paul O'Neil differently than you - I think the argument would be that if O'Neil wasn't white he wouldn't have his hard-nosed reputation, and a minority player could have had his perception completely altered by those plays.

PeterSparker

02-11-2010, 11:31 AM

Well, the whole point is that there is no intent. But Eckstein is a no-hit, no-field player who's been an average MLB hitter once in his career - he has a job because he fits the desription from the article to a T (gritty, maximizes talent, there because of his hard work).

But all of those attributes are true about him. I mean that has to be factored in to this eqaution. It's not made up. Before Ripken and Barry Larkin that is exactly what you got and expected out of most SS, that didn't change as far as putting together a winning team in this era just becuase A Rod and Jeter also play the position. I can't slight a GM for understanding this, or assume its racially motivated consciously or not.

And I think saying his contribution to winning teams is more than a coincidence is like saying Jason Marquis has magic playoff powers (only that's obviously true :) ).

Yeah, this is one we've disagreed on pretty consistently, that all players and stats are interchangable. Fact is until this last year, with all of his gaudy career stats, Eckstien would've probably (and actually did) contribute more in the post season to his team winning than A Rod had up to then. Not interchangeble. I don't buy the coincedence argument with some players, but I totally get why some people do. Just an opinion.

I also read the Paul O'Neil differently than you - I think the argument would be that if O'Neil wasn't white he wouldn't have his hard-nosed reputation, and a minority player could have had his perception completely altered by those plays.

Again, he had that perception and reputaion because it happened to be true. Period. I don't buy anyone who offers the argument he had that reputation throughout the game because of his skin color.

yeamon

02-11-2010, 12:07 PM

But all of those attributes are true about him.

That's the point. Those are unquantifiable attributes that have a habit of finding themselves attached to white guys, and not attached to players of color.

DAVE

02-11-2010, 12:14 PM

Found it! It was Klosterman! There's some brain cells left in this skull yet!
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=klosterman/copy/060111

Dan

02-11-2010, 12:28 PM

*cough* Omar Minaya *cough*

No, I'm pretty sure we have proof that Minaya performs worse in the summer.

DAVE

02-11-2010, 12:35 PM

No, I'm pretty sure we have proof that Minaya performs worse in the summer.

http://blog.vh1.com/files/2009/05/dol_2_1b6_31.jpg

ArttyG12

02-11-2010, 12:45 PM

But all of those attributes are true about him. I mean that has to be factored in to this eqaution. It's not made up. Before Ripken and Barry Larkin that is exactly what you got and expected out of most SS, that didn't change as far as putting together a winning team in this era just becuase A Rod and Jeter also play the position. I can't slight a GM for understanding this, or assume its racially motivated consciously or not.

Yeah, this is one we've disagreed on pretty consistently, that all players and stats are interchangable. Fact is until this last year, with all of his gaudy career stats, Eckstien would've probably (and actually did) contribute more in the post season to his team winning than A Rod had up to then. Not interchangeble. I don't buy the coincedence argument with some players, but I totally get why some people do. Just an opinion.

Again, he had that perception and reputaion because it happened to be true. Period. I don't buy anyone who offers the argument he had that reputation throughout the game because of his skin color.

Well, I don't think all players and stats are interchangable - but I do think that just because a guy was on two World Series winning teams doesn't mean he was some crucial part of those teams (especially in Eckstein's case, where you could pretty easily name at least 5 or 7 guys who undeniably were more important on each team).

And again, with O'Neil, I'm not saying he didn't have the reputation because it was true - I'm saying, the argument is that if he wasn't white, he very well might not have had the reputation regardless of how true it was.

PeterSparker

02-11-2010, 12:54 PM

That's the point. Those are unquantifiable attributes that have a habit of finding themselves attached to white guys, and not attached to players of color.

Again, in a general way I don't deny it exsists on some level, but how anyone can argue those aren't completey accurate descriptions of someone of Eckstein's size and ability I also don't get. It's true.

The Pirates in the early 90's, when they were actually a winning organization, carried Jose Lind at 2B, who was an all glove, no hit, infeilder. (they won the NL East three years in a row with Lind) I can remember the same things being said about him as a player, because honestly there wasn't much else to say about someone with his skill set. There weren't that may adjectives to throw in his direction besides "scrappy".

And going back again to the O'Neil thing, let's replay that same scenerio inserting say Manny Ramirez and Barry Bonds, or Eddie Murray and Griffey Jr. If Manny had dogged it, there would've been plenty of harping on it, but if Murray had, I don't believe in the same way because of the reputaion that preceeded him as a player. Same thing if its Griffey Jr as opposed to Bonds. The way they conducted themselves as players factors in more this day in age than skin color.

I don't deny its a real issue, and hard to quantify on a case to case basis. Just calling 'em, like I see in regard to the two players mentioned.

PeterSparker

02-11-2010, 01:00 PM

Well, I don't think all players and stats are interchangable - but I do think that just because a guy was on two World Series winning teams doesn't mean he was some crucial part of those teams (especially in Eckstein's case, where you could pretty easily name at least 5 or 7 guys who undeniably were more important on each team).

Never said he was "crucial". Wasn't my point.

And again, with O'Neil, I'm not saying he didn't have the reputation because it was true - I'm saying, the argument is that if he wasn't white, he very well might not have had the reputation regardless of how true it was.

Yeah, I don't agree with this at all.

As I said, Bonds and Griffey are perceived differently by fans and the media. They are also both African-American.

PeterSparker

02-11-2010, 01:05 PM

http://blog.vh1.com/files/2009/05/dol_2_1b6_31.jpg
Oh, and I was gonna respond to Dan's comment with a " :) ", but this was far better!

Dan

02-11-2010, 01:06 PM

Every time I see it, I can't stop laughing.

Also, I hate Paul O'Neill. Bitching and whining about every called strike!

yeamon

02-11-2010, 01:08 PM

Again, in a general way I don't deny it exsists on some level, but how anyone can argue those aren't completey accurate descriptions of someone of Eckstein's size and ability I also don't get. It's true.

Lack of size and lack of ability translate to a guy who has to make great effort to achieve mediocrity. But Eckstein is always tagged as having "hustle". Now, take Cesar Izturis, a mirror of mediocrity to Eckstein (other than the fact Cesar will hustle enough to steal a base every now and then). I tend to lose track of Cesar's movement between teams from season to season, but when his name comes up, the word "limited" is frequently used.

ArttyG12

02-11-2010, 01:11 PM

Never said he was "crucial". Wasn't my point.

I guess if you don't think he was crucial than I don't understand the point - if he's not crucial they can win without him, and his being a part of winning teams is a fluke.

Yeah, I don't agree with this at all.

As I said, Bonds and Griffey are perceived differently by fans and the media. They are also both African-American.

I mean, if you're argument is "Here's an example of it not happening, so it doesn't happen" then its not even a discussion. It doesn't always happen and its not intentional, that's the point, but to say it doesn't happen (and deny its even possible in a hypothetical) seems foolish to me.

PeterSparker

02-11-2010, 01:13 PM

Eh...

PeterSparker

02-11-2010, 01:16 PM

Also, I hate Paul O'Neill. Bitching and whining about every called strike!
So that's your recollection of O'Neil, not his skin color? Hm?

Doug

02-11-2010, 01:17 PM

Lack of size and lack of ability translate to a guy who has to make great effort to achieve mediocrity. But Eckstein is always tagged as having "hustle". Now, take Cesar Izturis, a mirror of mediocrity to Eckstein (other than the fact Cesar will hustle enough to steal a base every now and then). I tend to lose track of Cesar's movement between teams from season to season, but when his name comes up, the word "limited" is frequently used.

I'm sorry but seeing "size" and "ability" highlited made me giggle.

ArttyG12

02-11-2010, 01:19 PM

Lack of size and lack of ability translate to a guy who has to make great effort to achieve mediocrity. But Eckstein is always tagged as having "hustle". Now, take Cesar Izturis, a mirror of mediocrity to Eckstein (other than the fact Cesar will hustle enough to steal a base every now and then). I tend to lose track of Cesar's movement between teams from season to season, but when his name comes up, the word "limited" is frequently used.

"Mirror of medicority" - I like that. Unforunately, the mirror is distorted enough that Izturis has been a gold-glove caliber shortstop several times and has a worse reputation. (I love slick fielding shortstops).

PeterSparker

02-11-2010, 01:20 PM

If you can win a WS (or two) with a mediocre player, then what exactly is the point? What is a GM supposed to do differently in regard to that player I guess is my question?

PeterSparker

02-11-2010, 01:21 PM

And do you guys believe Manny Ramirez's reputaion is based on his actions, or the fact that he's Hispanic?

yeamon

02-11-2010, 01:23 PM

"Mirror of medicority" - I like that. Unforunately, the mirror is distorted enough that Izturis has been a gold-glove caliber shortstop several times and has a worse reputation. (I love slick fielding shortstops).

I actually liked Cesar when he was with the Cubs. But I tried to come up with a comparison to Eckstein on the spot, and he popped into my head.

ArttyG12

02-11-2010, 01:24 PM

If you can win a WS (or two) with a mediocre player, then what exactly is the point? What is a GM supposed to do differently in regard to that player I guess is my question?

There's nothing wrong with it when you have already built a 100-win team. A team with less talent should be taking a flier on someone with upside. I'm honestly not sure if any team is starting a worse second baseman this year, and he's on a dead-end team.

ArttyG12

02-11-2010, 01:30 PM

And do you guys believe Manny Ramirez's reputaion is based on his actions, or the fact that he's Hispanic?

I honestly think the Boston media is so fucked that that one skews both ways - this is the same group who shat on Ted Williams.

yeamon

02-11-2010, 01:50 PM

And do you guys believe Manny Ramirez's reputaion is based on his actions, or the fact that he's Hispanic?

Just Manny being Manny. But I don't think that is what that article is saying. Manny quitting on the Red Sox is quantifiable.

Aaron Rowand busting his face on an outfield wall is quantifiable only in the sense he's an idiot who lacks peripheral vision. It shouldn't earn him phantom points in some mysterious category of "grindernessnous".

And there is a quantifiable pattern of that type of thing happening to white players, and the reverse happening to non-white players.

Dan

02-12-2010, 04:52 AM

So that's your recollection of O'Neil, not his skin color? Hm?

The only color I am prejudiced against is the color of their pinstripe. Stupid Yankees!

ArttyG12

02-12-2010, 07:54 AM

Truck Day: just another chance to try and sell you something
Fri Feb 12,2010 10:50 AM ET By Craig Calcaterra

It's Truck Day in Boston, which means that boxes of gloves, bats, balls snuff cans and Gold Bond Medicated Powder are being loaded into the back of a rig outside Fenway Park and will soon depart for Red Sox spring training in Fort Myers, Florida.

There's been a lot of grumpy chatter from Red Sox fans this year over the fact that so many other teams are suddenly celebrating their own version of Truck Day. It's like one of their valued traditions is being stolen from them, they're saying. What will people steal next? Neil Diamond songs? Pink caps? Binge drinking? Is nothing scared?!

I was sympathetic about this cultural theft until I learned this morning that the Red Sox' February rite has corporate sponsorship:

The 2010 Spring Training Truck Day presented by JetBlue Airways is scheduled for Friday, February 12. The Red Sox equipment truck will depart Fenway Park for the 1,480-mile trip to the club's Spring Training home in Fort Myers, Florida on Friday at approximately 12 noon . . .

. . . Fans are also welcome to stop by and see JetBlue Airways, The Official Airline of the Boston Red Sox, and Wally the Green Monster between 11 a.m. and 12 p.m. at the Yawkey Way Store next to Fenway for their chance to win a roundtrip flight on JetBlue, a trip to Spring Training in Ft. Myers, and other great prizes.

Can I ask a dumb question? Why is an airline sponsoring an event which glorifies alternative transportation?

http://bases.nbcsports.com/
Just don't steal our binge drinking!

DAVE

02-12-2010, 08:05 AM

http://bases.nbcsports.com/
Just don't steal our binge drinking!

Too late!

Your Pal, Carl

02-12-2010, 08:06 AM

And Timmy signs a contract. 2 years, $23 million. Might as well hand us our pennants now.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4908311

Buk Was Right

02-12-2010, 09:14 AM

And Timmy signs a contract. 2 years, $23 million. Might as well hand us our pennants now.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4908311

Fucking bargain.

PeterSparker

02-12-2010, 10:06 AM

Fucking bargain.

Yeah, it is.

Maybe the Giants will add a bat now to compliment and maximize their investment.

Nah, my bad I started talking crazy there for a second.

Buk Was Right

02-12-2010, 10:13 AM

Yeah, it is.

Maybe the Giants will add a bat now to compliment and maximize their investment.

Nah, my bad I started talking crazy there for a second.

Uhhhhh... dude?

We got Aubrey Fucking Huff! Is there a bigger hitter (named Aubrey) in the game ? I doubt it.

Jonny Z

02-12-2010, 10:21 AM

Uhhhhh... dude?

We got Aubrey Fucking Huff! Is there a bigger hitter (named Aubrey) in the game ? I doubt it.

http://stats.nj.com/mlb/playerstats.asp?id=8252

Michael Aubrey had a better 2009 than Aubrey Huff.

PeterSparker

02-12-2010, 10:22 AM

Uhhhhh... dude?

We got Aubrey Fucking Huff! Is there a bigger hitter (named Aubrey) in the game ? I doubt it.

When you're right, you're right.

PeterSparker

02-12-2010, 10:23 AM

When you're right, you're right.
Hm, according to jonnyz, apparently when you're right, you're wrong.

Try and work that out would ya, its kinda confusing!

ArttyG12

02-12-2010, 10:24 AM

http://stats.nj.com/mlb/playerstats.asp?id=8252

Michael Aubrey had a better 2009 than Aubrey Huff.

His 30 games were somehow better than Huff's 150? :mistrust:

King of Mars

02-16-2010, 12:57 PM

Chien-Ming Wang to the Nationals.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100216/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbn_nationals_wang

Marc Lombardi

02-16-2010, 01:08 PM

Chien-Ming Wang to the Nationals.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100216/ap_on_sp_ba_ne/bbn_nationals_wang

Just what Washington needs. Another Wang!

Buk Was Right

02-16-2010, 04:07 PM

Fuck all other preseason rankings the power rankings for MLB 2K10 are out:

Boston Red Sox 97
New York Yankees 97
Philadelphia Phillies 91
Los Angeles Angels 91
Los Angeles Dodgers 90
Texas Rangers 90
St. Louis Cardinals 90
Tampa Bay Rays 89
Minnesota Twins 89
San Francisco Giants 87
Colorado Rockies 87
Milwaukee Brewers 86
Chicago Cubs 86
Atlanta Braves 85
Arizona Diamondbacks 84
Chicago White Sox 84
Baltimore Orioles 83
Seattle Mariners 81
New York Mets 79
Kansas City Royals 77
Oakland Athletics 77
Florida Marlins 76
Washington Nationals 75
Cincinnati Reds 75
Detroit Tigers 75
Houston Astros 75
Toronto Blue Jays 74
Cleveland Indians 73
Pittsburgh Pirates 73
San Diego Padres 72

Ready... FIGHT ABOUT IT!

http://kotaku.com/5473293/initial-team-ratings-for-mlb-2k10-revealed

DAVE

02-16-2010, 04:12 PM

Fuck all other preseason rankings the power rankings for MLB 2K10 are out:

Ready... FIGHT ABOUT IT!

http://kotaku.com/5473293/initial-team-ratings-for-mlb-2k10-revealed

Can you give me any hope that the 2K10 will be worth owning this year? Please, help this xbox owner!

Buk Was Right

02-16-2010, 04:17 PM

Can you give me any hope that the 2K10 will be worth owning this year? Please, help this xbox owner!

I read a couple of previews that said it was a lot better than last year.

But that's sort of like a slightly softer kick in the crotch right? I think I played last year's version a total of twice.

http://kotaku.com/tag/mlb2k10/

Your Pal, Carl

02-16-2010, 04:42 PM

Fuck all other preseason rankings the power rankings for MLB 2K10 are out:

Ready... FIGHT ABOUT IT!

http://kotaku.com/5473293/initial-team-ratings-for-mlb-2k10-revealed

That list is BULLSHIT! There's no way the Pirates are anything higher than a 71! Maybe a 72. But 73? C'MON!!!

southsidejohnny

02-16-2010, 05:01 PM

im amazed the mets are a 79 (that's a little high)

Buk Was Right

02-18-2010, 03:21 PM

MLB The Show '10 Team Rankings via Kotaku (http://kotaku.com/5475123/initial-rankings-for-mlb-10-the-show-released). The Show doesn't assign a numbered score, they just rank them in order:

Earlier this week MLB 2K10 revealed its team numeric ratings. MLB 10 The Show has now divulged its rankings of all 30 Major League teams across four categories. The New York Yankees are this year's overall No. 1.

The Show's rankings come in four flavors: Overall, hitting, pitching and defense. I've broken them out here.

Overall Team Rankings
1 Yankees
2 Red Sox
3 Phillies
4 Dodgers
5 Rays
6 Braves
7 Angels
8 Rockies
9 Cubs
10 Rangers
11 Diamondbacks
12 Twins
13 White Sox
14 Giants
15 Blue Jays
16 Cardinals
17 Mets
18 Brewers
19 Reds
20 Orioles
21 Mariners
22 Astros
23 Athletics
24 Tigers
25 Padres
26 Marlins
27 Royals
28 Nationals
29 Pirates
30 Indians

Team Hitting Rankings
1 Yankees
2 Red Sox
3 Phillies
4 Rangers
5 Rays
6 Rockies
7 Angels
8 Cubs
9 Braves
10 Dodgers
11 Twins
12 Blue Jays
13 Diamondbacks
14 Orioles
15 Mets
16 Giants
17 Reds
18 White Sox
19 Brewers
20 Cardinals
21 Marlins
22 Mariners
23 Nationals
24 Astros
25 Pirates
26 Padres
27 Royals
28 Indians
29 Tigers
30 Athletics

Team Pitching Rankings
1 Yankees
2 Dodgers
3 Red Sox
4 Braves
5 Diamondbacks
6 White Sox
7 Phillies
8 Athletics
9 Cubs
10 Angels
11 Twins
12 Rays
13 Giants
14 Tigers
15 Cardinals
16 Rockies
17 Brewers
18 Padres
19 Mariners
20 Royals
21 Reds
22 Mets
23 Rangers
24 Astros
25 Blue Jays
26 Nationals
27 Pirates
28 Indians
29 Orioles
30 Marlins

Team Defense Rankings
1 Red Sox
2 Mets
3 Mariners
4 Dodgers
5 Phillies
6 Yankees
7 White Sox
8 Rays
9 Astros
10 Blue Jays
11 Rangers
12 Orioles
13 Cardinals
14 Tigers
15 Royals
16 Angels
17 Athletics
18 Nationals
19 Reds
20 Pirates
21 Giants
22 Braves
23 Twins
24 Rockies
25 Indians
26 Cubs
27 Diamondbacks
28 Brewers
29 Marlins
30 Padres

yeamon

02-18-2010, 05:17 PM

I know Soriano is a huge liability in the field (although he's got a good arm), but I'm surprised to see the Cubs defense ranked so poorly in that game.

Your Pal, Carl

02-19-2010, 03:38 AM

Cubs single game tickets go on sale today! :rock:

lonesomefool

02-19-2010, 04:09 AM

So I finally got MLB Network.

I dont think I can ever go back to Baseball Tonight.

southsidejohnny

02-19-2010, 04:18 AM

CougarTrace

02-19-2010, 04:44 AM

My stros were horrible this past season, but finally we have some young players coming up this year that should start to make us better in a couple of years.

I expect Hunter Pence to step up this year and become a perennial all-start type player.

and Juan Castro, the former USC catcher, should be up this year and he is considered to be a huge prospect in the majors.

Not sure about the new manager yet, but I like the hire better than the previous manager so we will just see.

I expect another bad season this year, but next year I'm hoping for a turn around.

dougmac

02-19-2010, 05:21 AM

So I finally got MLB Network.

I dont think I can ever go back to Baseball Tonight.

mlb network is great for games, news classics etc. but for opinion, rumors, baseball tonight is better. mlb network isnt going to go into steroids or anything derogotory as they are owned by mlb. so you probably wont hear the WHOLE truth.

for me it depends who's on Baseball Tonight. When Buster Onley's on, I like it better than MLB. It will be interesting how much MLB uses Gammons now that they got him, that could make a real difference. I really like Ravitch and Kruk on ESPN, but did find myself drifting over to MLB more last season

yeamon

02-19-2010, 05:44 AM

mlb network is great for games, news classics etc. but for opinion, rumors, baseball tonight is better. mlb network isnt going to go into steroids or anything derogotory as they are owned by mlb. so you probably wont hear the WHOLE truth.

I think tuning into either network with the goal of receiving objective opinion and truth without compromise is futile. ESPN has become the poster-child of corporate-pandering, athlete-apologist, high-energy nothingness. And it's widely known that a lot of those former athletes sitting behind the desk are being spoon-fed their "analysis" through the discreetly-placed earpiece. I'm not saying it's any different at MLB network, although it does seem looser. Hell, I heard this week that the whole Costas-McGwire "revelatory" interview was a public relations construct by IMG, the sports agency who represents both personalities.

For opinions, rumor, and whole truth, I think one probably needs to find some good online resources. As much shit as Buzz Bissinger gave Deadspin and the blogosphere during his appearance on Costas Now, that shit and more than a little egg has landed square on his face. All his bluster about journalistic credentials and professional access just leads to questions these days about who is buying his drinks. While the reality is that sites like Deadspin are breaking real stories, albeit often in a raw, crude, unflinching, and uncompromising manner.

ArttyG12

02-19-2010, 06:21 AM

I know Soriano is a huge liability in the field (although he's got a good arm), but I'm surprised to see the Cubs defense ranked so poorly in that game.

I agree, they're not good anywhere, but they're not really below average anywhere but LF either. I don't see it.

mlb network is great for games, news classics etc. but for opinion, rumors, baseball tonight is better. mlb network isnt going to go into steroids or anything derogotory as they are owned by mlb. so you probably wont hear the WHOLE truth.

I think MLB Network has done a much better job covering steroid stories than ESPN. The flip side of being owned by MLB is that teams can't exclude them, whereas it seems like the ESPN guys suck up all the time.

For rumors and investigation and whatnot, I agree with yeamon about using online resources - but some of the big guys like Olney and Rosenthal are great, especially on Twitter where they can let more rumor'y things out.

yeamon

02-19-2010, 06:32 AM

I agree, they're not good anywhere, but they're not really below average anywhere but LF either. I don't see it.

They are good defensively at 1B. Derek Lee makes up for a lot of inconsistency in that infield.

And I'm going to regret saying this, because I got suckered in on Corey Patterson, Felix Pie, and countless other prospects, but I'm hearing Starlin Castro is for reals.

ArttyG12

02-19-2010, 06:42 AM

They are good defensively at 1B. Derek Lee makes up for a lot of inconsistency in that infield.

And I'm going to regret saying this, because I got suckered in on Corey Patterson, Felix Pie, and countless other prospects, but I'm hearing Starlin Castro is for reals.

I often forget about 1B defense, you're right he's good. And I hope Starlin is real, I love good defensive SS's and Starlin is a great baseball name (which is really the important thing here).

PeterSparker

02-19-2010, 08:48 AM

I think MLB Network has done a much better job covering steroid stories than ESPN. The flip side of being owned by MLB is that teams can't exclude them, whereas it seems like the ESPN guys suck up all the time.

Yeah, gotta say I don't really agree with southside's take at all.

A perfect example would be the above mentioned Costas/McGwire segment. I'm sure it was arranged though PR firms, and McGwire was looking for the friendliest interviewer and setting, etc. Goes without saying. But Costas asked some tough questions, and followed them up. Moreso once that interview was finished the panel back in the studio completely ripped McGwire for his evasions just moments later. Verducci was particularly detailed in his criticism. Then after going through the panel and talking to others like Gammons and Reynolds who weren't in the studio, they then went back to Costas still at the interview location, and even he made it clear he wasn't buying a lot of those answers and thought it wasn't as helpful as McGwire had probably hoped. They had detailed discussions all that week about the steroid issue.

Or go back to about one year ago this week when the A-Rod stuff broke, they stayed on the air that entire day discussing the steroid and PED problem within the game with a wide variety of players, former players, managers, GM's, and baseball writers..

Buk Was Right

02-19-2010, 08:49 AM

Just sent my thrice monthly email to my cable provider requesting the MLB Network.

Your Pal, Carl

02-19-2010, 08:50 AM

It took over an hour but I finally got tickets to Wrigley for the Cubs game against the 'Stros on April 16th. :rock:

yeamon

02-19-2010, 08:51 AM

It took over an hour but I finally got tickets to Wrigley for the Cubs game against the 'Stros on April 16th. :rock:

Nice. Have fun. Hope you don't get a snow-out.

Your Pal, Carl

02-19-2010, 08:52 AM

Just sent my thrice monthly email to my cable provider requesting the MLB Network.

Who's your provider? Because we get it here in The City.

Buk Was Right

02-19-2010, 08:57 AM

Who's your provider? Because we get it here in The City.

AT&T U-Verse. They're a fairly new service and like the only one in my area that doesn't get MLB Network.

PeterSparker

02-19-2010, 08:58 AM

Just sent my thrice monthly email to my cable provider requesting the MLB Network.

Well maybe if you showed some initiative and sent four a month you'd get somewhere.

yeamon

02-19-2010, 09:05 AM

Yeah, gotta say I don't really agree with southside's take at all.

A perfect example would be the above mentioned Costas/McGwire segment. I'm sure it was arranged though PR firms, and McGwire was looking for the friendliest interviewer and setting, etc. Goes without saying. But Costas asked some tough questions, and followed them up. Moreso once that interview was finished the panel back in the studio completely ripped McGwire for his evasions just moments later. Verducci was particularly detailed in his criticism. Then after going through the panel and talking to others like Gammons and Reynolds who weren't in the studio, they then went back to Costas still at the interview location, and even he made it clear he wasn't buying a lot of those answers and thought it wasn't as helpful as McGwire had probably hoped. They had detailed discussions all that week about the steroid issue.

Or go back to about one year ago this week when the A-Rod stuff broke, they stayed on the air that entire day discussing the steroid and PED problem within the game with a wide variety of players, former players, managers, GM's, and baseball writers..

It's definitely in MLB Network's best interest to establish itself as a reliable news and commentary source, versus a network public relations forum for the league. They are in the audience-building phase, and I think many of us can agree that the audience for baseball is a different breed of sports fan. An audience that seeks critical, statistical, and inside analysis, instead of the "He got Jacked Up!" nonsense available on other networks (who exist only as their own public relations forum). I think it's a balance right now. For instance, they did present negative commentary on all that WBC mess, while promoting the shit out of it as their own product.

Buk Was Right

02-19-2010, 09:06 AM

Well maybe if you showed some initiative and sent four a month you'd get somewhere.

From now on I'm CCing you on all of those emails.

Your Pal, Carl

02-19-2010, 09:17 AM

AT&T U-Verse. They're a fairly new service and like the only one in my area that doesn't get MLB Network.

You're the first person I know that's signed up with that? How is the service? I know you can DVR 4 things at once but what else do you get? Everything I know I learned from Comcast's propaganda commercials.

PeterSparker

02-19-2010, 09:20 AM

It's definitely in MLB Network's best interest to establish itself as a reliable news and commentary source, versus a network public relations forum for the league. They are in the audience-building phase, and I think many of us can agree that the audience for baseball is a different breed of sports fan. An audience that seeks critical, statistical, and inside analysis, instead of the "He got Jacked Up!" nonsense available on other networks (who exist only as their own public relations forum). I think it's a balance right now. For instance, they did present negative commentary on all that WBC mess, while promoting the shit out of it as their own product.

Yeah, I agree as of now, they've shown some pretty reasonable balance.

And as for the larger discussion between ESPN and MLB Network, you're right on about the peculiarities of baseball fans, because I may prefer one over the other, but bottom line is if someone is on tv talking about baseball anywhere, I'll watch!

Doug

02-19-2010, 09:27 AM

From now on I'm CCing you on all of those emails.

You could start a new theard every time you send an email.

yeamon

02-19-2010, 09:55 AM

MLB The Show '10 Team Rankings via Kotaku (http://kotaku.com/5475123/initial-rankings-for-mlb-10-the-show-released). The Show doesn't assign a numbered score, they just rank them in order:

Russell from SCEA sheds some light on how MLB The Show '10 comes up with the team rankings. This is from the Operation Sports forum...

These are some of my favorite threads every year because we all get to debate on why so and so is rated this and that. It's all arbitrary and opinions when you think about it though (which is why I enjoy these threads so much), but for the sake of understanding I'm game lets dig a little deeper.

The Cardinals batting being ranked 20th in the game, but before I talk about their rating let me shed some light on how the game determines this.

1. It's an avg. of your starters and your bench and that's for your starting pitching and lineup. Kolbe gave me a number around 60% to 40% with your starters making up 60% of that rating.

2. Player ratings are not done by human hands its all done by a program that looks at the players past three years with the most recent year weighing in the highest.

Now that we have that out the way back to the Cardinals and this 20th batting ranking which made me scratch my head a little when I first saw it. As most of you and I'm guilty of this myself I think Pujols and Holliday that has to at least make them better than 20th. Not so fast

The Mets are ranked 15th a good 5 spots ahead of them. If you notice the Cardinals bench is relatively weak compared to the Mets. This is a very important factor in the Cardinals current 20th batting rating. For the sake of science I swaped F.Tatis for S.Robinson on these two teams and their ratings changed. That one player swap propelled the Cardinals to 13th overall in batting and dropped the Mets to 21st in batting. What you have to remember is your starting lineup is only half of the story (about 60% give or take) you have to take into consideration your bench and your bullpen for pitching. Hope this helps

DAVE

02-19-2010, 10:10 AM

Russell from SCEA sheds some light on how MLB The Show '10 comes up with the team rankings. This is from the Operation Sports forum...

Also, the Mets line up is better than the Cardinals.

ArttyG12

02-19-2010, 10:46 AM

Also, the Mets line up is better than the Cardinals.

The one on paper or the one that'll actually be healthy enough to play?

DAVE

02-19-2010, 10:48 AM

The one on paper or the one that'll actually be healthy enough to play?

Both! Jerk!

King of Mars

02-20-2010, 09:44 PM

Johnny Damon to the Tigers.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AiREXoiieUrasJfV9LnLFT0RvLYF?slug=ti-damonsigns022010&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Ryan F

02-21-2010, 07:03 PM

Anyone here listen to the Baseball Today podcast from ESPN? Anyone know what's up with it? Did it get shut down over Pascarelli's little Bud Selig joke?

ArttyG12

02-22-2010, 08:06 AM

David Wright is in the best shape of his . . . OH MY GOD look at the guns on him!

Mon Feb 22,2010 9:00 AM ET By Craig Calcaterra

Based on how much iron David Wright apparently pumped this offseason (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/after_hrs_fall_off_david_adds_muscle_B1KjlFv5kfZdF bWqz1ANKN), it would seem that he doesn't want to depend on lower fences at Citi Field to help restore his power. Mercy.

In other news, the article goes on and on about how Jeff Francoeur is helping Wright take a better mental approach to the game. This is puzzling news given that anyone who watched Frenchie in a Braves uniform over the past five years will be shocked to learn that he even has a mental approach to the game which he can share.

To be fair, Wright was reported to have brooded and obsessed a bit during his struggles last season, and the seemingly happy-go-lucky Francouer could supply a little levity and looseness. For example, he could teach Wright not to get too down during a slump. Or to worry about the media. Or the pitch count. Or the pitch location. Or the game situation. You know, those things that get in the way of doing whatever it is Jeff Francoeur does.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/02/21/sports/photos_stories/cropped/david_wright--300x450.jpg

King of Mars

02-22-2010, 08:45 AM

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/02/21/sports/photos_stories/cropped/david_wright--300x450.jpgGreat. Now, I can look forward to seeing the homegrown face of the franchise get suspended for using a PED. :)

SteveFlack

02-22-2010, 08:55 AM

Call off the season, the Yankees just locked down the title.

CHAN. HO. PARK.

MOTHERFUCKER.

King of Mars

02-22-2010, 09:04 AM

Call me pessimistic, but I don't think Wright's new muscles will be enough to overcome the power of Jayson Werth's scary new beard.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/68420176.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1266862753&Signature=PWPbgUBRr%2Bx8wbiTvmrveJfpHsg%3D

Yikes.

yeamon

02-22-2010, 01:11 PM

For those who were on the fence about pre-ordering MLB 10 The Show to get the Classic Stadium pack... here is a teaser. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVSzjn3Etp8&feature=player_embedded)

yeamon

02-24-2010, 06:45 AM

NY Times says Baseball will begin blood testing for HGH in the Minors. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/sports/baseball/24hgh.html)

Still some questions about the reliability of the test, but it's a step in the correct direction.

ArttyG12

02-24-2010, 06:55 AM

Apparently Cashman was on satellite radio and said Granderson will play center and Nick Johnson will bat second.

PeterSparker

02-24-2010, 07:49 AM

Apparently Cashman was on satellite radio and said Granderson will play center and Nick Johnson will bat second.

I hope he was fucking right about these offseason moves.... I more than a little nervous about the loss of Damon and Matsui (and probably Austin Jackson as well).

I think Granderson will do alright and benifit from playing at the Stadium, but they already won the WS with Melky and Gardner platooning in CF, in a large part because of the contributions made by Damon and Matsui. I worry about Johnson's health and his ability to run the bases in the 2 spot. (though there are no guarantees about Damon's health either) Sure it's a great place to hit, behind Jeter and in front of Tex and A-Rod, so it should work out as long as he actually plays. I'm just nervous...

DaGetHighKnight

02-24-2010, 07:59 AM

I hope he was fucking right about these offseason moves.... I more than a little nervous about the loss of Damon and Matsui (and probably Austin Jackson as well).

I think Granderson will do alright and benifit from playing at the Stadium, but they already won the WS with Melky and Gardner platooning in CF, in a large part because of the contributions made by Damon and Matsui. I worry about Johnson's health and his ability to run the bases in the 2 spot. (though there are no guarantees about Damon's health either) Sure it's a great place to hit, behind Jeter and in front of Tex and A-Rod, so it should work out as long as he actually plays. I'm just nervous...

Wahhh...!

PeterSparker

02-24-2010, 08:06 AM

Wahhh...!

Yeah, if those are my biggest concerns I don't have much to complain about do I? :)

SteveFlack

02-24-2010, 08:10 AM

Wahhh...!

Now, now. I know it's tough being a Mets fan, but there is no reason to cry. I mean, have to seen David Wright's arms (http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/david-wright-is-in-the-best-shape-of-his-oh-my-god-look-at-the-guns-on-him.html.php)? Just be happy about that.

Deej

02-24-2010, 08:35 AM

Now, now. I know it's tough being a Mets fan, but there is no reason to cry. I mean, have to seen David Wright's arms (http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/david-wright-is-in-the-best-shape-of-his-oh-my-god-look-at-the-guns-on-him.html.php)? Just be happy about that.

And that there's not a picture of him staring at himself in the mirror ready to make out...right? :lol:

Buk Was Right

02-24-2010, 08:55 AM

You're the first person I know that's signed up with that? How is the service? I know you can DVR 4 things at once but what else do you get? Everything I know I learned from Comcast's propaganda commercials.

There were some serious hiccups when we first signed up because it was a new service in the area (dropped internet, cable freezing up) but they were always good about getting a tech out and they credited our bill every time.

With the exception of it lacking the MLB network there aren't any channels that I'm missing, HD looks sweet (and some of the HD channels are on the east coast feed so sometimes I get shows early), and they've been continually upgrading the DVR service. At first we could only record and watch on the main box, then we could watch, but not control the DVR from the bedroom TV. Now we can watch, record, and program from any TV (the only thing we can't do is pause live TV from the bedroom TV).

For those who were on the fence about pre-ordering MLB 10 The Show to get the Classic Stadium pack... here is a teaser. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVSzjn3Etp8&feature=player_embedded)

What?!!?! No historic Candlestick? I guess the technology to replicate the swirling winds and hod dog wrapper tumbleweeds doesn't exist yet.