Question for musicians, or music fans...

[dasNdanger]

What the hell happened to bass - or, more specifically, the way bass guitar is played?

Now, please, bear with me - this is going to be hard for me to explain, especially to those of you out there who really know music. So, lemme start by saying that I really don't know anything about music, other than to listen to it and to know what I like, and don't like. But here's something I noticed...bass guitarists (with exceptions, of course) really don't do anything anymore, do they? I really didn't notice the change until today, when I popped in my Best of Cream CD - the first pre-1990 thing I've listened to in ages - and realized that the bass was all over the place...not just a monotone thumping in the background, but there was an actual melody - notes...I could hear notes! Not just... bombombombombombombombombombombombom. So, I experimented...I turned on the radio and kept switching back and forth between a modern rock station, and one that plays a lot of stuff from the 60s/70s. Foghat's Slow Ride came on...there's that crazy bass, and then Paranoid (my favorite song, ever!), and again - the bassist had quite a melody going...really carrying the song. But when I switched back to the modern rock stations, most of the songs featured a rather monotone bassline, with little creativity or variation, and lead/rhythm guitars pretty much over-powering everything.

So, when did the change happen, and why? Like I said...it's just something my ear noticed today. I used to love the bass in the old songs - it was always what my ear automatically tuned into. But somewhere along the line the bassline stopped being unique to each song, and more 'one size fits all'. Now, I do realize that not all modern bass guitar work is bland, but it's certainly not like what it used to be - at least not to my ear.

Any insights into what I'm hearing would be appreciated!

das

[Patton]

Punk rock happened to bass.

You're right that a lot of the bassists these days are a bit "lazy" for lack of a better word. Same can be said for drums.

But there's still a ton of great bassists out there.

[Patch]

Best bassists in rock?
Go!

[The Crushtacean]

Les Claypool.

[Petey Parker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiUx0WdBdyA

[Patton]

Best bassists in rock?
Go!

So third post and you switch the topic? :crazy:

Okay!

Flea's pretty good but I'd say Colin Greenwood.

[RickLM]

I've been listening to some of Bob Dylan's music from the 1970s (both with The Band and with his own bassist at the time, Rob Stoner) and you are right, the bass lines were much different than what we hear today. They give a dimension to those songs that's kinda missing nowadays.

[Patch]

So third post and you switch the topic? :crazy:

Okay!

Flea's pretty good but I'd say Colin Greenwood.

You may be the only guy who posts here who's crankier than I am.


Phil Lynott of Thin Lizzy!!
Go!

[Petey Parker]

Geddy Lee Best Bass Player Ever

http://www.badmovies.org/movies/orgazmo/orgazmo3.jpg

[Andy Kuhn]

Best bassists in rock?
Go!

james jamerson!!!

[Whip]

Best bassists in rock?
Go!

Well, not in rock, but Stanley Clarke is fantastic!

[dasNdanger]

Punk rock happened to bass.

You're right that a lot of the bassists these days are a bit "lazy" for lack of a better word. Same can be said for drums.

But there's still a ton of great bassists out there.

Okay - so it's not just me. Thanks. You know - sometimes I think maybe I'm just 'hearing' things, as it were...but at least I know I'm not crazy now. Well...crazy in regards to this. As far as other things go, crazy still applies there. ;)


Best bassists in rock?
Go!


So third post and you switch the topic? :crazy:

Okay!

Flea's pretty good but I'd say Colin Greenwood.

No - I welcome this - I was even going to ask what bassists today kick ass (include the group they're in, since I don't know names that well).


das

[Patch]

james jamerson!!!

Wears a diaper!


Roger Glover of Deep Purple!!
Go!

[dasNdanger]

Wears a diaper!


Roger Glover of Deep Purple!!
Go!


Well, since I started this by mentioning Cream, I gotta go with Jack Bruce!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7OsqYQ83Os


das

[Patch]

Well, since I started this by mentioning Cream, I gotta go with Jack Bruce!


das

As Ed McMahon, a frequent groupie of Cream's, would say, "Yessir!"

[Kman00001]

Les Claypool from Primus. If you've seen South Park, Primus does the theme song.

[Jef UK]

It's more likely you're listening to bands who don't have good bassists rather than the entirety of popular music no longer using good basslines, no?

[nick maynard]

you know, i understand what you're saying. but i disagree with your premise.

as a pretty busy bassist, i feel like i know something about the good bass players on the radio and the bad ones. what you describe as "a monotone thumping in the background" is 99% of the time the exact same part the guitarist is playing. this is standard operating procedure for pop punk/rock bands like fall out boy, blink 182, jimmy eat world, weezer, and saves the day. it's standard for 99% of hardcore bands too.

and patton's right. punk rock changed pop music. and soul / r&b (the birthplace of every great bass line ever) slowly mutated into funk, disco, and hip hop and the punk rock community is not really big on funk, disco, or hip hop. thus, the r&b influence died off.

but you're exaggerating things. there are tons and tons and tons of bands with great bass playing. it's not just the exception. there's a certain couple of genres where the bass lines could be described as "lazy" but it's not that these players are lazy, it's that their goals are different. sure, the focus might not be on 'creating high art' or whatever but there's absolutely nothing wrong with focusing on making music that is simple and fun and you can jump around while you play it and have fun with all your friends.

i'd actually appreciate some examples of the modern bass playing you're talking about. i could definitely add more with that info.


james jamerson!!!

this is the right answer. end the thread.

[nick maynard]

It's more likely you're listening to bands who don't have good bassists rather than the entirety of popular music no longer using good basslines, no?

yes, well said.

[Criden]

I dunno. Kind of strikes me as a bassist accusation.

[Patton]

I dunno. Kind of strikes me as a bassist accusation.

:-| :) :-D :lol: :rofl: :-? :miffed: :no:

[Albert]

I blame this guy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Big_mouth_billy_bass_still.jpg

[Patton]

You may be the only guy who posts here who's crankier than I am.


Phil Lynott of Thin Lizzy!!
Go!

.

[TheTravis!]

I dunno. Kind of strikes me as a bassist accusation.

If I were in the same room with you right now I would slap your face and then hug you.

[Criden]

:-| :) :-D :lol: :rofl: :-? :miffed: :no:

:)

[Criden]

If I were in the same room with you right now I would slap your face and then hug you.

Entirely appropriate.

[silverboy]

The influences of punk, grunge and modern metal have really simplified basslines. Bassists are discouraged from "showing off" nowadays, as opposed to the days when rock was primarily blues/R&B based. There are still a lot of great bassists working today.

[dasNdanger]

you know, i understand what you're saying. but i disagree with your premise.

as a pretty busy bassist, i feel like i know something about the good bass players on the radio and the bad ones. what you describe as "a monotone thumping in the background" is 99% of the time the exact same part the guitarist is playing. this is standard operating procedure for pop punk/rock bands like fall out boy, blink 182, jimmy eat world, weezer, and saves the day. it's standard for 99% of hardcore bands too.

and patton's right. punk rock changed pop music. and soul / r&b (the birthplace of every great bass line ever) slowly mutated into funk, disco, and hip hop and the punk rock community is not really big on funk, disco, or hip hop. thus, the r&b influence died off.

Well, I think you've just described what I find missing right here.


but you're exaggerating things. there are tons and tons and tons of bands with great bass playing. it's not just the exception. there's a certain couple of genres where the bass lines could be described as "lazy" but it's not that these players are lazy, it's that their goals are different. sure, the focus might not be on 'creating high art' or whatever but there's absolutely nothing wrong with focusing on making music that is simple and fun and you can jump around while you play it and have fun with all your friends.

i'd actually appreciate some examples of the modern bass playing you're talking about. i could definitely add more with that info.





Perhaps they are good bass players - but not INTERESTING bass players. Can't help you out by naming the ones that don't interest me, mainly because I DON'T KNOW NAMES! :lol: - long story, but it's mainly because I get most of my music from the radio, and they are notorious for not naming groups, etc. I only investigate those groups/artists that DO excite me...and one bassist who does this is Justin Chancellor of Tool. Love his bass work.


das

[Kman00001]

I only investigate those groups/artists that DO excite me...and one bassist who does this is Justin Chancellor of Tool. Love his bass work.

:thumb:

[Patton]

and one bassist who does this is Justin Chancellor of Tool. Love his bass work.


das

Great bassist.

But no one touches the drummer.

I guess I'm showing which instrument I play more.

[dasNdanger]

I dunno. Kind of strikes me as a bassist accusation.

:rofl:


I blame this guy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Big_mouth_billy_bass_still.jpg

I just KNEW he would show up in this thread! In fact, I got confused the first time I typed 'bass', I said to myself, 'that's a fish!' and almost typed 'base' instead. :p


The influences of punk, grunge and modern metal have really simplified basslines. Bassists are discouraged from "showing off" nowadays, as opposed to the days when rock was primarily blues/R&B based. There are still a lot of great bassists working today.

Well, that's just a shame. Maybe that's why most bass players just looked bored out of their skulls on stage...when in the past they looked really, really cool...and stoned. :)


das

[TheTravis!]

People need to stop talking bad about punk rock.

[dasNdanger]

Great bassist.

But no one touches my penis.

I guess I'm showing which instrument I play more.

Fixed.

:twisted:


das

[dasNdanger]

People need to stop talking bad about punk rock.


Ya know - I love punk. I love alternative. I love songs with boring basslines. Not so much love for rap and disco and hip hop...but much love for funk...

"Fire (Uh) [Uh] ...Fire (It’s all about) [Uh, uh] ...Fire (Woo, woo, woo)...Fire...
The way you walk and talk really sets me off..."

Yeah, showing my age... :p

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I miss the more elaborate bass playing that was quite common 30+ years ago, but not so much today.

das

[Donal DeLay]

Best bassists in rock?
Go!

Wes Borland!

*runs*

[TheTravis!]

Ya know - I love punk. I love alternative. I love songs with boring basslines. Not so much love for rap and disco and hip hop...but much love for funk...

"Fire (Uh) [Uh] ...Fire (It’s all about) [Uh, uh] ...Fire (Woo, woo, woo)...Fire...
The way you walk and talk really sets me off..."

Yeah, showing my age... :p

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I miss the more elaborate bass playing that was quite common 30 years ago, but not so much today.

das

There are plenty of punk bands with very excellent bassists, my friend. Don't let these classic rock snob bastards tell you different.

[dasNdanger]

There are plenty of punk bands with very excellent bassists, my friend. Don't let these classic rock snob bastards tell you different.

Matt Freeman, perhaps?


das

[PhilipClark]

It's not necessarily what happened to bassists, it's what's happened to songwriting.

Songwriters have gotten lazy, and the craft itself isn't taken as seriously any more. More people are concerned with gimicks and creating "hits" rather than actually crafting music and lyrics into lasting art.

But there are still good bassists out there, and good bass. I just don't think it's happening in much rock music.

I happen to have a favorite on YouTube that happens to be this killer bass playing chick.

http://www.youtube.com/user/kaboesj

[TheTravis!]

Matt Freeman, perhaps?


das

Fuck YEAH, Matt Freeman. Also Mike Watt, Karl Alvarez, Mike Burkett.

Hell, how about motherfucking Sting?

[EmarAndZeb]

Punk rock happened to bass.

Nomeansno would have words with you...

[dasNdanger]

It's not necessarily what happened to bassists, it's what's happened to songwriting.

Songwriters have gotten lazy, and the craft itself isn't taken as seriously any more. More people are concerned with gimicks and creating "hits" rather than actually crafting music and lyrics into lasting art.

But there are still good bassists out there, and good bass. I just don't think it's happening in much rock music.

I happen to have a favorite on YouTube that happens to be this killer bass playing chick.

http://www.youtube.com/user/kaboesj

Hey, she's pretty good - thanks for sharing! I gotta show that to my husband who's been told 'you can't play just bass by itself, you need to have a band to make it sound good'. :roll:


Fuck YEAH, Matt Freeman. Also Mike Watt, Karl Alvarez, Mike Burkett.

Hell, how about motherfucking Sting?

Whoa. Sting diddles his mum?? I did not know that...




das

[Patton]

Nomeansno would have words with you...

I don't know who that is but I think people are getting the wrong impression from what I said.

It's what happened to rock bass. It doesn't mean punk is bad (quite the contrary) it just means the punk sensibilities were shifted over into other rock music and some of the bassists (and drummers and guitarists) got away with doing less and it stuck. One of my favorite bassists is a post-punk bassist: Tommy Stinson.

I also think in a lot of modern rock bands there's less emphasis on connecting the bass and the drums.

I'm more talking about mainstream rock, which has a ton of problems these days that are not limited to bass.

[TheKraken]

A bass player I've always really liked who no one ever talks about is Bruce Thomas from The Attractions.

[Tim Simmons]

Just remember, the correct answer to every question about Bass guitar is:

http://www.tvrock.com.br/new/imagens/img_5213_052Lemmy.jpg

Lemmy.

[CapnChaos]

If it wasn't for their bass lines, no one would know who Cake is.

[adventure metal]

I've always been partial to Victor Wooten

[NeverWanderer]

One of my favorite industrial bands, Stabbing Westward, had a surprising reliance on bass guitar for their melodies. It was kinda cool.

Then they broke up. :(

Nonpoint has a really good bassist. They're a loud band, so a lot of time, it just sort of blends in with the guitar, but when their songs quiet down, you can hear the bassist is really the soul of the music.

I kinda feel that way about bass in general.

[ilash]

Seriously, no mention of John Entwistle yet?

And I don't know about anyone else but, as far as punk bands go, the Clash had a killer rhythm section - bass included.

[EmarAndZeb]

I don't know who that is but I think people are getting the wrong impression from what I said.

It's what happened to rock bass. It doesn't mean punk is bad (quite the contrary) it just means the punk sensibilities were shifted over into other rock music and some of the bassists (and drummers and guitarists) got away with doing less and it stuck. One of my favorite bassists is a post-punk bassist: Tommy Stinson.

I also think in a lot of modern rock bands there's less emphasis on connecting the bass and the drums.

I'm more talking about mainstream rock, which has a ton of problems these days that are not limited to bass.


Oh, I kinda got what you meant, I was mostly just kidding. Sorry, I don't always use smilies, and sometimes they might actually help.

[modungo]

Fuck YEAH, Matt Freeman. Also Mike Watt, Karl Alvarez, Mike Burkett.

Hell, how about motherfucking Sting?

Watt & Alvarez are the two of the best "busy" bass players of all time. Even though they got alot goin' on they are still hanging out in the rhythm section. Also Watt gets extra points for being the only guy to hug me after I told him "good show".

And they're plenty of classic rock bass players that by and large kept it simple. Bill Wyman. John Paul Jones. Billy Talbot. Micheal Anthony. And in that vein, my favorite ever? Cliff Williams! That dude doesn't play one note he doesn't need to.

[Patton]

Oh, I kinda got what you meant, I was mostly just kidding. Sorry, I don't always use smilies, and sometimes they might actually help.

So I typed all that FOR NOTHING?!!

:-x

[danlomb]

Les Claypool is incredible.

and Flea is a manic genius.

(edit: not that i've dug RHCP since BloodSugarSexMagik and half of Californication, but he's owed heaps of props.)
(plus, Needles from Back To The Future 2 & 3. C'mon.)

[adventure metal]

Seriously, no mention of John Entwistle yet?

And I don't know about anyone else but, as far as punk bands go, the Clash had a killer rhythm section - bass included.

Much love for entwistle. He more than any of the other members blew me away on their Royal Albert DVD.

I'd have to disagree with the guy who said John Paul Jones kept it simple. See Led Zep II.