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View Full Version : This Final Bush Press Conference Is Just Horrible



Kedd
01-12-2009, 05:33 AM
Horrible.

Shwicaz
01-12-2009, 05:39 AM
I am at work.

any choice quotes?

Kedd
01-12-2009, 05:41 AM
I am at work.

any choice quotes?

Not yet.

TIP
01-12-2009, 05:47 AM
Misunderestimate

T

Shwicaz
01-12-2009, 05:52 AM
Misunderestimate

T

thank you.

C.B.Cebulski
01-12-2009, 05:54 AM
Won't discuss the pre-emptive pardons he's rumored to be giving members of his staff in advance of their leaving next week.

Getting pissed and flustered by direct questions about his track record in office.

Explaining just what it means to be "popular" in his opinion, like some high schooler.

Ah, and there it is... bringing up 9/11 to deflect the negativity, make people feel bad and shut them up.

Sigh.

CougarTrace
01-12-2009, 05:55 AM
the pardons thing is no big deal considering how he probably won't be pardoning near as many as Reagan or Clinton (who owns the record).

Gregory
01-12-2009, 05:57 AM
ABCNews's link quote:


Bush on Iraq's Lack of WMD: 'Things Didn't Go According to Plan, Let's Put It That Way'

bartleby
01-12-2009, 05:57 AM
the pardons thing is no big deal considering how he probably won't be pardoning near as many as Reagan or Clinton (who owns the record).

:no:

Fake Pat
01-12-2009, 05:57 AM
the pardons thing is no big deal considering how he probably won't be pardoning near as many as Reagan or Clinton (who owns the record).

Wait, giving pardons to those who are clearly guilty of war crimes is no big deal?

CougarTrace
01-12-2009, 05:58 AM
Wait, giving pardons to those who are clearly guilty of war crimes is no big deal?

yeah you go and prove it. Were you upset by all the scum Clinton pardoned?

Kedd
01-12-2009, 06:04 AM
yeah you go and prove it. Were you upset by all the scum Clinton pardoned?

Comparable Clinton pardons?

Fake Pat
01-12-2009, 06:04 AM
yeah you go and prove it. Were you upset by all the scum Clinton pardoned?

It's been proven. Nobody with any idea what they're talking about is arguing it. Just because they haven't been tried for it doesn't mean it hasn't been proven.

CougarTrace
01-12-2009, 06:05 AM
Comparable Clinton pardons?

lookup the all time record of scums he pardoned.

C.B.Cebulski
01-12-2009, 06:05 AM
This was the first I'd heard of him pardoning his own current administration officials in advance for any possible future legal actions that may be taken against them for things "like harsh interrogation tactics to firing U.S. Attorneys" which they did while he was in office. Did Clinton and Reagan do that too?

Kedd
01-12-2009, 06:05 AM
Misunderestimate

T

I believe he also mentioned something along the lines of :I inherited a recession and I'm leaving with one" What is with repubs claiming that?

Gregory
01-12-2009, 06:07 AM
The live ABC News online feed is hysterical. The reporter is having technical problems and can't make his report.

bartleby
01-12-2009, 06:10 AM
Wait, giving pardons to those who are clearly guilty of war crimes is no big deal?


yeah you go and prove it. Were you upset by all the scum Clinton pardoned?

So, if they aren't guilty of anything, then why would he be pardoning them?

Fake Pat
01-12-2009, 06:11 AM
So, if they aren't guilty of anything, then why would he be pardoning them?

Oh, yeah.

That too. :Oops:

Jason California
01-12-2009, 07:39 AM
the pardons thing is no big deal considering how he probably won't be pardoning near as many as Reagan or Clinton (who owns the record).


It has nothing to do with the number. It is what they are accused of. Reagen and Clinton did not pardon people for what Bush's people are said to have done. You say prove it. If they are innocent he does not need to pardon them.


I believe he also mentioned something along the lines of :I inherited a recession and I'm leaving with one" What is with repubs claiming that?


Bush did inherit a recesion. it is not an empty claim.

WillieLee
01-12-2009, 07:40 AM
Wait, giving pardons to those who are clearly guilty of war crimes is no big deal?

It's never seemed to bother the US before.

WillieLee
01-12-2009, 07:47 AM
You're not going to have George W Bush to kick around anymore.

Ben
01-12-2009, 07:48 AM
CougarTrace Logic: Doing something bad is okay as long as someone else did something worse.

Lord Jermaine Retail
01-12-2009, 08:10 AM
What were we really expecting to get here exactly?

You know, I listened to a good portion of it on the radio and more on tv. And I tried to be impartial and just listen. Not looking for the usual verbal hiccups, everything-is-great-all-the-time moments, or variations on that. And it was one of those cases where I thought I wanted one thing, but then I maybe decided that thing wasn't going to be as satisfying as I thought. And I'm not even getting into specifics there. But when he was clearly getting flustered here in the final press conference and talked about disappointments, possible mistakes, and the impending judgment of history, I thought to myself "ok, ok. That's enough." That feeling will no doubt change back to what it once was someday, but for right then and there specifically during the final press conference, I was able to see him as a fellow human. Fortunately, such moments do pass quickly.

Gregory
01-12-2009, 08:12 AM
... But when he was clearly getting flustered here in the final press conference and talked about disappointments, possible mistakes, and the impending judgment of history, I thought to myself "ok, ok. That's enough." That feeling will no doubt change back to what it once was someday, but for right then and there specifically during the final press conference, I was able to see him as a fellow human. Fortunately, such moments do pass quickly.

He clearly got a job different than what he signed up for.

ClintP
01-12-2009, 08:14 AM
You're not going to have George W Bush to kick around anymore.

The memory will live on and sustain them. :)

James H
01-12-2009, 08:16 AM
What were we really expecting to get here exactly?

For him to pull out Osama Bin Ladin's head out of a bag.

ClintP
01-12-2009, 08:19 AM
For him to pull out Osama Bin Ladin's head out of a bag.

Now that would have been a cool trick. I still don't get why he still breathing.

Gregory
01-12-2009, 08:20 AM
Speaking of Bush and the end of his administration, this Vanity Fair oral history (http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2009/02/bush-oral-history200902)via administration employees is MANDATORY READING.

RebootedCorpse
01-12-2009, 08:21 AM
Fucking disgrace.
He has fucked up in every imaginable aspect of the the presidency and is too stupid to even recognize what he has done.

Humphrey_Lee
01-12-2009, 08:25 AM
Now that would have been a cool trick. I still don't get why he still breathing.

He didn't have non-existing WMDs? ... wait...

Marcdachamp
01-12-2009, 08:27 AM
Now that would have been a cool trick. I still don't get why he still breathing.

Because instead of focusing on one war, we found a bullshit one to fight instead.

RebootedCorpse
01-12-2009, 08:27 AM
Speaking of Bush and the end of his administration, this Vanity Fair oral history (http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2009/02/bush-oral-history200902)via administration employees is MANDATORY READING.

That is absolutely riveting and disburbing.
Here's just one quote:
Bob Graham, Democratic senator from Florida and chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee: "One of our difficulties now is getting the rest of the world to accept our assessment of the seriousness of an issue, because they say, You screwed it up so badly with Iraq, why would we believe that you’re any better today? And it’s a damn hard question to answer.

Meanwhile, the Taliban and al-Qaeda have relocated, have strengthened, have become a more nimble and a much more international organization. The threat is greater today than it was on September the 11th."

WillieLee
01-12-2009, 08:30 AM
That is absolutely riveting and disburbing.
Here's just one quote:
Bob Graham, Democratic senator from Florida and chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee: "One of our difficulties now is getting the rest of the world to accept our assessment of the seriousness of an issue, because they say, You screwed it up so badly with Iraq, why would we believe that you’re any better today? And it’s a damn hard question to answer.

Meanwhile, the Taliban and al-Qaeda have relocated, have strengthened, have become a more nimble and a much more international organization. The threat is greater today than it was on September the 11th."

Who in the rest of the world are they supposed to convince?

Marcdachamp
01-12-2009, 08:32 AM
Who in the rest of the world are they supposed to convince?

The allies that we pushed away over false "intelligence".

Taxman
01-12-2009, 08:33 AM
Wait, giving pardons to those who are clearly guilty of war crimes is no big deal?Trace is much more worried about some toothless meth rancher in Paducah having his 20 year sentence cut short than he would be his next door neighbor having to live out of his Impala with his thee children.

Humphrey_Lee
01-12-2009, 08:34 AM
Bush did inherit a recesion. it is not an empty claim.


He did, it's true. He inherited a natural recession that comes sometimes when the economy is booming and the wave starts to reside. He also came with a just over $3 trillion dollar surplus that he could have used to keep it in check and re-enforce our infrastructure and kept the job levels the same by investing it into stuff like road and bridge reconstruction/repair, or putting it into the schools, or adding to the budgets of research divisions, etc, etc. Y'know, the stuff Gore was hoping to do if he got elected. Instead he increased budget spending by over a trillion and didn't bother creating a noteable job at all, except maybe a couple for his Ranch hands while he was away. It's all almost over, let's just try and pretend it didn't happen, like he has as he disappeared the past two months...

Taxman
01-12-2009, 08:35 AM
This was the first I'd heard of him pardoning his own current administration officials in advance for any possible future legal actions that may be taken against them for things "like harsh interrogation tactics to firing U.S. Attorneys" which they did while he was in office.There has been speculation about it. There was also speculation that Clinton would issue a pardon for himself before leaving office.

WillieLee
01-12-2009, 08:39 AM
The allies that we pushed away over false "intelligence".

Which allies?

Marcdachamp
01-12-2009, 08:39 AM
He did, it's true. He inherited a natural recession that comes sometimes when the economy is booming and the wave starts to reside. He also came with a just over $3 trillion dollar surplus that he could have used to keep it in check and re-enforce our infrastructure and kept the job levels the same by investing it into stuff like road and bridge reconstruction/repair, or putting it into the schools, or adding to the budgets of research divisions, etc, etc. Y'know, the stuff Gore was hoping to do if he got elected. Instead he increased budget spending by over a trillion and didn't bother creating a noteable job at all, except maybe a couple for his Ranch hands while he was away. It's all almost over, let's just try and pretend it didn't happen, like he has as he disappeared the past two months...

I sometimes laugh when people ask me if I really think this country would be in a better place if Gore had been elected president. There is not a single doubt in my mind that this place would be terrific if that God damn moron of a current president we currently have didn't get elected.

Taxman
01-12-2009, 08:52 AM
Which allies?Suriname and Liechtenstein.

Andreas
01-12-2009, 09:12 AM
Helen Thomas was so close to throwing a shoe...

Andreas

Lyfeforce
01-12-2009, 09:18 AM
I started watching this, remembered five minutes later that I was wearing my SkrullBush "who do you trust" shirt and laughed harder than I had in days.

Andreas
01-12-2009, 09:24 AM
The "you can be popular..." monologue feels like it's straight out of Shakespeare, when the mad King's delusion and lunacy are revealed to the audience.

Andreas

CougarTrace
01-12-2009, 09:39 AM
I thought George was very sincere in his speech about asking everyone to treat Obama with respect.

The man made mistakes. The people around him made mistakes. The man isn't evil. Just tried to some things his administration thought were right and then turned out to be wrong.

Time to enjoy life now after serving those tough 8 years.

RebootedCorpse
01-12-2009, 09:41 AM
Which allies?

List of Coalition forces by number of military personnel
Country Number of Personnel Comments / Major Events
United States 575,000 - 697,000 Operation Desert Shield
Battle of Khafji
Battle of 73 Easting
Battle of Al Busayyah
Battle of Phase Line Bullet
Battle of Medina Ridge
Battle of Wadi Al-Batin
Battle of Norfolk
Operation Desert Storm
Saudi Arabia 52,000 - 100,000 Operation Desert Shield
Battle of Khafji
Operation Desert Storm
United Kingdom 43,000 - 45,400 Operation Desert Shield
Operation Granby
Operation Desert Storm
Egypt 33,600 - 35,000 Operation Desert Storm
France 14,600 Opération Daguet
Syria 14,500 Operation Desert Storm
Morocco 13,000
Kuwait 9,900 Invasion of Kuwait
Operation Desert Storm
Oman 6,300 Operation Desert Storm
Pakistan 4,900 - 5,500
United Arab Emirates 4,300 Operation Desert Storm
Canada 2,700 Operation FRICTION
Qatar 2,600 Battle of Khafji
Bangladesh 2,200
Italy 1,200 Deployed Panavia Tornado strike attack aircraft
Australia 700 Australian contribution to the 1991 Gulf War
Netherlands 700 Naval deployment; Air Force deployments of Surface-to-Air Missiles to Turkey and Israel
Niger 600
Senegal 500
Spain 500
Bahrain 400
Belgium 400
South Korea 314 Medical & transportation support
Afghanistan 300
Argentina 300
Czechoslovakia 200 Operation Desert Shield
Operation Desert Storm
Greece 200
Poland 200 Operation Simoom
Philippines 200[citation needed] Medical personnel
Denmark 100
New Zealand 100 2 C-130 Hercules transporter aircraft [1]
Hungary 50
Norway 50
Sweden 525 [2] Field hospital

Fake Pat
01-12-2009, 09:42 AM
I thought George was very sincere in his speech about asking everyone to treat Obama with respect.

The man made mistakes. The people around him made mistakes. The man isn't evil. Just tried to some things his administration thought were right and then turned out to be wrong.

Time to enjoy life now after serving those tough 8 years.

Un-fucking-believable.

CougarTrace
01-12-2009, 09:44 AM
Un-fucking-believable.

that someone can think different than you.

It's damn shocking. I know.

RebootedCorpse
01-12-2009, 09:46 AM
Un-fucking-believable.

It's just...There aren't words.

HomerGator
01-12-2009, 09:47 AM
I thought George was very sincere in his speech about asking everyone to treat Obama with respect.

The man made mistakes. The people around him made mistakes. The man isn't evil. Just tried to some things his administration thought were right and then turned out to be wrong.

Time to enjoy life now after serving those tough 8 years.

.....

wow.

Fake Pat
01-12-2009, 09:49 AM
that someone can think different than you.

It's damn shocking. I know.

Nah, it's more that you can't ever make a statement that is either consistent with your other statements/has any internal logic whatsoever.

According to you, guys who sell pot should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, but war criminals should be able to enjoy the rest of their lives.

Yeah, he made mistakes. Normal people have to face the consequences of their mistakes. Yeah, maybe he did mean well. SO FUCKING WHAT.

The amount of ideological gymnastics you have to use every time you attempt to make a point is mind-boggling.

Brother Power the Gong
01-12-2009, 09:49 AM
that someone can think different than you.

It's damn shocking. I know.

Not many people not named "CougarTrace" will see much "thinking" in the sentiment laid out in your previous post.

CougarTrace
01-12-2009, 09:51 AM
Not many people not named "CougarTrace" will see much "thinking" in the sentiment laid out in your previous post.

coming from you that doesn't mean much.

This isn't a popularity contest.

Dan-C
01-12-2009, 09:51 AM
This was the first I'd heard of him pardoning his own current administration officials in advance for any possible future legal actions that may be taken against them for things "like harsh interrogation tactics to firing U.S. Attorneys" which they did while he was in office. Did Clinton and Reagan do that too?

It seems like Bush is protecting his peeps from potential legal action, knowing that they may or may not have done something wrong. Whereas most presidents tend to pardon people who have already been convicted, and have had a chance to review their cases and make a decision.

Ashwin Pande
01-12-2009, 09:52 AM
that someone can think different than you.

It's damn shocking. I know.

The thing is though there's not much thinking there at all.

You're willing to give him a free pass on the shit he's pulled just because he's President when really he should be held to the highest standard because he's President.

Wrong choices made as President aren't the same as wrong choices made by the night manager at McDonalds. His wrong choices cost trillions of dollars, thousands upon thousands of human lives and untold damage to the environment.

So there's really no coherent thinking involved on your part when you're willing to give him a free pass just because of the office he held.

CougarTrace
01-12-2009, 09:54 AM
The thing is though there's not much thinking there at all.

You're willing to give him a free pass on the shit he's pulled just because he's President when really he should be held to the highest standard because he's President.

Wrong choices made as President aren't the same as wrong choices made by the night manager at McDonalds. His wrong choices cost trillions of dollars, thousands upon thousands of human lives and untold damage to the environment.

So there's really no coherent thinking involved on your part when you're willing to give him a free pass just because of the office he held.


where did I say free pass? It seems like you want to read more into what I typed.

and I at least respect other's opinions and post and don't try to crap over all them every chance I get.

Fake Pat
01-12-2009, 09:55 AM
coming from you that doesn't mean much.

This isn't a popularity contest.

Really?

How about some explanation/justification of your position instead of an insult.

(and remember this post the next time you start whining about "bullies")

bartleby
01-12-2009, 09:56 AM
where did I say free pass? It seems like you want to read more into what I typed.

You don't have to actually say the words "free pass." But what you said basically amounts to giving him a free pass. I don't think anyone actually expects you to have said, "I'm giving President Bush a free pass."

CougarTrace
01-12-2009, 09:56 AM
Really?

How about some explanation/justification of your position instead of an insult.

(and remember this post the next time you start whining about "bullies")

who is whining. I stick up for myself after an insult and it s a whine all of sudden.

Jason California
01-12-2009, 09:57 AM
He did, it's true. He inherited a natural recession that comes sometimes when the economy is booming and the wave starts to reside. He also came with a just over $3 trillion dollar surplus that he could have used to keep it in check and re-enforce our infrastructure and kept the job levels the same by investing it into stuff like road and bridge reconstruction/repair, or putting it into the schools, or adding to the budgets of research divisions, etc, etc. Y'know, the stuff Gore was hoping to do if he got elected. Instead he increased budget spending by over a trillion and didn't bother creating a noteable job at all, except maybe a couple for his Ranch hands while he was away. It's all almost over, let's just try and pretend it didn't happen, like he has as he disappeared the past two months...


I was not apologizing for him or making excuses. I simply said that there was in fact a recession when he got in. I got the impression from Kedds post that he did not believe that.

Brother Power the Gong
01-12-2009, 09:58 AM
This isn't a popularity contest.

It never is when you're the least popular person in the room.

;)

Dan-C
01-12-2009, 10:02 AM
I thought George was very sincere in his speech about asking everyone to treat Obama with respect.

The man made mistakes. The people around him made mistakes. The man isn't evil. Just tried to some things his administration thought were right and then turned out to be wrong.

Time to enjoy life now after serving those tough 8 years.

This I agree with. Let the President move on now that he is out of the office.

Is retrospect, it isn't really surprising that he is pardoning these people in advance, knowing full well that they may have committed crimes at his behest. He pardoned Scooter Libby only months after vowing to punish the person who violated to law to the fullest extent possible. Then what happens? Libby is found guilty, and what, 2 days later? he's pardoned. So, Bush is just getting all of the nonsense out of the way early and pardoning everyone ahead of time.

Hopefully, if this does anything it makes subsequent inquiries into the subjects much easier because none of the people being questioned will have to worry about going to jail for breaking the law.

Fake Pat
01-12-2009, 10:03 AM
who is whining. I stick up for myself after an insult and it s a whine all of sudden.

Even when directly asked, there's not even a token attempt at any sort of rationalization of the crap you've been spewing.

What a shocker.

noble
01-12-2009, 10:05 AM
Hopefully the stupid shit doesn't drag america all the way down with him.

Worst fuck of a president.

EVER.

RebootedCorpse
01-12-2009, 10:06 AM
It wasn't a recession in 2001, it was a slow down after many years of record-breaking peace-time expansion.

RebootedCorpse
01-12-2009, 10:56 AM
The AP is reporting that Obama will issue an order to close Gitmo within his first week in office.
The nightmare's almost over.

Brother Power the Gong
01-12-2009, 11:00 AM
The AP is reporting that Obama will issue an order to close Gitmo within his first week in office.
The nightmare's almost over.

Let's hope they resettle the detainees in Houston.

dEnny!
01-12-2009, 11:06 AM
It wasn't a recession in 2001, it was a slow down after many years of record-breaking peace-time expansion.

That's one way to view it. Or you could realize that the economy was overheating, that the internet bust was coming, that accounting practices which came to light during Bush's Presidency all lead to that "slow-down" due to all those record breaking years, which obviously were inflated by those "aggressive" accounting practices by companies like Enron.

Now is anyone adding anything new to Bush's time as President in these discussions or are we just recycling the same old same old? Couldn't we just have a time travel Tuesday and bump an old thread? ;)

RebootedCorpse
01-12-2009, 11:07 AM
That's one way to view it. Or you could realize that the economy was overheating, that the internet bust was coming, that accounting practices which came to light during Bush's Presidency all lead to that "slow-down" due to all those record breaking years, which obviously were inflated by those "aggressive" accounting practices by companies like Enron.

Now is anyone adding anything new to Bush's time as President in these discussions or are we just recycling the same old same old? Couldn't we just have a time travel Tuesday and bump an old thread? ;)

Those who don't remember history...

dEnny!
01-12-2009, 11:07 AM
The AP is reporting that Obama will issue an order to close Gitmo within his first week in office.
The nightmare's almost over.

I really do hope that Obama's term as President helps to unify the country. I think that's his goal, unfortunately I think those on the Democratic, liberal, whatever general term you want to use will not allow it as they will be busy trying to rub dirt in the eyes of those who view things in a different way.

dEnny!
01-12-2009, 11:08 AM
Those who don't remember history...

Are we remembering it or just throwing some more mud? Are these comments going to change the course of our country? You have high hopes for this thread.

RebootedCorpse
01-12-2009, 11:08 AM
I really do hope that Obama's term as President helps to unify the country. I think that's his goal, unfortunately I think those on the Democratic, liberal, whatever general term you want to use will not allow it as they will be busy trying to rub dirt in the eyes of those who view things in a different way.

What are you basing that view on?

bartleby
01-12-2009, 11:10 AM
I really do hope that Obama's term as President helps to unify the country. I think that's his goal, unfortunately I think those on the Democratic, liberal, whatever general term you want to use will not allow it as they will be busy trying to rub dirt in the eyes of those who view things in a different way.

Well, it's good to see that you're not doing that.

dEnny!
01-12-2009, 11:13 AM
Here's the Wiki page on the Bill Clinton pardons.


Bill Clinton pardons controversy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
President Bill Clinton was widely criticized for some pardons and other acts of executive clemency;[1] collectively, this controversy has sometimes been called Pardongate in the press.[2] Longtime Clinton supporters and Democratic leaders such as James Carville, Terry McAuliffe and Jimmy Carter all were critical toward the Clinton pardons, with Carter calling them "disgraceful". [3] Federal prosecutor Mary Jo White was appointed to investigate the pardons. She was later replaced by James Comey. Comey found no grounds to indict Clinton.

Contents [hide]
1 FALN Commutation of 1999
2 Edgar and Vonna Jo Gregory pardons
3 Pardons and commutations signed on final day in office
4 See also
5 External links
6 References



[edit] FALN Commutation of 1999
On August 11, 1999, Clinton commuted the sentences of 16 members of FALN, a violent Puerto Rican nationalist group that set off 120 bombs in the United States mostly in New York City and Chicago, convicted for conspiracies to commit robbery, bomb-making, and sedition, as well as for firearms and explosives violations.[4] None of the 16 were convicted of bombings or any crime which injured another person, though they were sentenced with terms ranging from 35 to 105 years in prison for the conviction of conspiracy and sedition. Congress, however, recognizes that the FALN is responsible for "6 deaths and the permanent maiming of dozens of others, including law enforcement officials." All of the 16 had served 19 years or longer in prison, which was a longer sentence than such crimes typically received, according to the White House.[5] Clinton offered clemency, on condition that the prisoners renounce violence, at the appeal of 10 Nobel Peace Prize laureates, President Jimmy Carter, the cardinal of New York, and the archbishop of Puerto Rico. The commutation was opposed by U.S. Attorney's Office, the FBI, and the Federal Bureau of Prisons and criticized by many including former victims of FALN terrorist activities, the Fraternal Order of Police,[6] members of Congress. Hillary Clinton, then campaigning for her first term in the Senate, initially supported the commutation,[7] but later withdrew her support when the prisoners had refused to renounce violence more than three weeks after clemency was offered.[8] Congress condemned the action, with a vote of 95-2 in the Senate and 311-41 in the House.[9][10] The U.S. House Committee on Government Reform held an investigation on the matter, but the Justice Department prevented FBI officials from testifying.[11] President Clinton cited executive privilege for his refusal to turn over some documents to Congress related to his decision to offer clemency to members of the FALN terrorist group.


[edit] Edgar and Vonna Jo Gregory pardons
In March 2000, Bill Clinton pardoned Edgar and Vonna Jo Gregory, owners of the carnival company United Shows International, for charges of bank fraud from a 1982 conviction. Although the couple had already been released from prison, the prior conviction prevented them from doing business in certain American states. First Lady Hillary Clinton's youngest brother, Tony Rodham, was an acquaintance of the Gregorys, and had lobbied Clinton on their behalf.[12] In October 2006, the group Judicial Watch filed a request with the U.S. Justice Department for an investigation, alleging that Rodham had received $107,000 from the Gregorys for the pardons, in the form of loans that were never repaid, as part of a quid pro quo scheme.[13]


[edit] Pardons and commutations signed on final day in office
Clinton issued 140 pardons as well as several commutations on his last day of office, January 20, 2001.[14] When a sentence is commuted, the conviction remains intact, but the sentence can be altered in a number of ways. Some controversial actions include the following:

Peter MacDonald - The day before President Clinton left office, U.S. Rep. Patrick J. Kennedy lobbied the White House to commute the sentence of the former leader of the Navajo Nation. MacDonald was sentenced to 14 years at a Federal Prison in Texas for fraud, extortion, inciting riots, bribery, and corruption stemming from the Navajo purchase of the Big Boquillas Ranch in Northwestern Arizona. His sentence was commuted after he served 10 years.
Carlos A. Vignali had his sentence for cocaine trafficking commuted, after serving 6 of 15 years in federal prison.
Almon Glenn Braswell was pardoned of his mail fraud and perjury convictions, even while a federal investigation was underway regarding additional money laundering and tax evasion charges.[15] Braswell and Carlos Vignali each paid approximately $200,000 to Hillary Clinton's brother, Hugh Rodham, to represent their respective cases for clemency. Hugh Rodham returned the payments after they were disclosed to the public.[16] Braswell would later invoke the Fifth Amendment at a Senate Committee hearing in 2001, when questioned about allegations of his having systematically defrauded senior citizens of millions of dollars.[17]
Linda Sue Evans and Susan Rosenberg were pardoned. Weather Underground members, they were imprisoned on weapons and explosives charges.[18][19]
Marc Rich, a fugitive who had fled the U.S. during his prosecution and was residing in Switzerland. Rich owed $48 million in taxes and was charged with 51 counts of tax fraud, was pardoned of tax evasion after clemency pleas from Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak, among many other international luminaries. He was required to pay a $100 million dollar fine and waive any use of the pardon as a defense against any future civil charges that were filed against him in the same case. Critics complained that Denise Rich, his former wife, had made substantial donations to the Clinton library and to Mrs. Clinton's senate campaign. Emails uncovered during the course of the investigation revealed that her final donation was provided a year before Scooter Libby requested that she approach Clinton for a pardon. According to Paul Volcker's independent investigation of Iraqi Oil-for-Food kickback schemes, Marc Rich was a middleman for several suspect Iraqi oil deals involving over 4 million barrels of oil.[20]
Susan McDougal, who had already completed her sentence, was pardoned for her role in the Whitewater scandal; McDougal had served 18 months on contempt charges for refusing to testify about Clinton's role.
Dan Rostenkowski, a former Democratic Congressman convicted in the Congressional Post Office Scandal. Rostenkowski had served his entire sentence.
Melvin J. Reynolds, a Democratic Congressman from Illinois, who was convicted of bank fraud, 12 counts of sexual assault, obstruction of justice, and solicitation of child pornography had his sentence commuted on the bank fraud charge and was allowed to serve the final months under the auspices of a half way house. He had served his entire sentence on child sex abuse charges before the commutation of the later convictions.
Roger Clinton, the president's half-brother, on drug charges after having served the entire sentence more than a decade before. Roger Clinton would be charged with drunk driving and disorderly conduct in an unrelated incident within a year of the pardon.[21] He was also briefly alleged to have been utilized in lobbying for the Braswell pardon, among others. However, no wrongdoing was uncovered.
On Feb. 18, 2001, Clinton wrote a New York Times column defending the 140 pardons.[22]

I'm not sure I get all the hubbub, but maybe at the time some of these were big news.

dEnny!
01-12-2009, 11:14 AM
What are you basing that view on?

You, I base it on you Corpse Reign!

noble
01-12-2009, 11:14 AM
It's one thing to have a differing view on how things are run.

It's another to monumentally cock up an entire country as Bush has done without regard to small things like budget, or I don't know...Laws.

Ashwin Pande
01-12-2009, 11:16 AM
What are you basing that view on?

It sounds similar to the Obama episode of South Park where all the Conservatives go underground thinking that the Liberals will burn and pillage everything during their victory celebrations.

dEnny!
01-12-2009, 11:18 AM
Well, it's good to see that you're not doing that.

I don't think I am. I mentioned in an earlier post that I was hopeful that Obama would bring about some unity, maybe we won't see so much divisiveness in politics, in the average guy on the street, and in the media who I think jumped on it and sensationalized it and fueled it a bit. I'm sure W made for good news cycles, but I'd love to see things settle down, have a President that can do something.

There was no way W could turn things around. Let's be honest, the man could have ended poverty or disease and he'd still be viewed as the worst President ever. It'd be all, "Too little too late," you saw that with subsequent hurricanes and how much better the response was. He had lost all his political leverage and currency, what have you, and then once the Democrats took hold of the House and Senate...he's been a lame duck for 2-4 years now.

I'm hoping with Obama the Senate and the House will start moving forward with things that will help our country (obviously a little easier since it's all majority Democrat).

RebootedCorpse
01-12-2009, 11:19 AM
You, I base it on you Corpse Reign!

Nah. Once this piece of shit is out of office, I'll be happy to let him run around like a retard in Crawford.

dEnny!
01-12-2009, 11:23 AM
Nah. Once this piece of shit is out of office, I'll be happy to let him run around like a retard in Crawford.

While I enjoy giving Clinton a hard time :heybaby: I always felt the guy was charismatic, likeable, and intelligent politically. While he was self destructive in his private live "rocking out with his cock out," and while I might disagree with him on some issues the man is charismatic. Personally, I think W has been villainized a bit harshly. I think the concern I had about him in 2000, not EVER changing his mind and sticking to his guns, which in some ways is a good trait, but taken too far a bad one did get him in a lot of trouble.

He also trusted his advisors/staff a bit too much, not getting enough details or forcing them to plan further out i.e. Rumsfield.

Maestro
01-12-2009, 11:30 AM
Thanks for the memories, George

Jef UK
01-12-2009, 11:38 AM
He did better on subsequent hurricanes! :lol:

TheKraken
01-12-2009, 11:44 AM
He did better on subsequent hurricanes! :lol:

Everyone gets a warm-up hurricane!

dEnny!
01-12-2009, 12:22 PM
He did better on subsequent hurricanes! :lol:

Well FEMA did better.

Is it me or did time fly by from the election? It doesn't seem that long ago that we were discussing the upcoming election, election day...and now we are a week away from Obama taking office. UNREAL!

Brother Power the Gong
01-12-2009, 12:28 PM
Everyone gets a warm-up hurricane!

And terrorist attack! 9/11 was a gimme.

ChuckMcButcalf
01-12-2009, 12:39 PM
For him to pull out Osama Bin Ladin's head out of a bag.

I'm guessing someone listens to SModcast :)

dEnny!
01-12-2009, 12:42 PM
For him to pull out Osama Bin Ladin's head out of a bag.

That would have been a show stopper.

Marcdachamp
01-12-2009, 01:20 PM
I don't think I am. I mentioned in an earlier post that I was hopeful that Obama would bring about some unity, maybe we won't see so much divisiveness in politics, in the average guy on the street, and in the media who I think jumped on it and sensationalized it and fueled it a bit. I'm sure W made for good news cycles, but I'd love to see things settle down, have a President that can do something.

There was no way W could turn things around. Let's be honest, the man could have ended poverty or disease and he'd still be viewed as the worst President ever. It'd be all, "Too little too late," you saw that with subsequent hurricanes and how much better the response was. He had lost all his political leverage and currency, what have you, and then once the Democrats took hold of the House and Senate...he's been a lame duck for 2-4 years now.

I'm hoping with Obama the Senate and the House will start moving forward with things that will help our country (obviously a little easier since it's all majority Democrat).

The thing is, Iraq was just such a monumental screw-up. Bush's defenders often try to downplay it as a mistake, but this goes far beyond mistake. Iraq is a large reason our economy is in such dire straights. Meanwhile, Bush's buddies made out like bandits.

Now, let's say he managed to do some real good. Obviously, he'd still be remembered for Iraq, not because he screwed up a little, but because of the people that are dead and the billions that have been wasted as a result.

The president's role with the country is often like a relationship. You can be the perfect boyfriend for 6 out of the 8 years, but if you cheated and got caught, that's certainly what you're gonna be remembered for.

Thommy Melanson
01-12-2009, 01:30 PM
One last awkward press conference for the road, eh George?

What a mortifying sham of a human being he is.

The 20th can't come soon enough.

James H
01-12-2009, 02:41 PM
I'm guessing someone listens to SModcast :)

Yeah. I agree with Kevin. The head out of the bag or revealing aliens to the world would be the only things to help his image.

Kedd
01-12-2009, 02:51 PM
I really do hope that Obama's term as President helps to unify the country. I think that's his goal, unfortunately I think those on the Democratic, liberal, whatever general term you want to use will not allow it as they will be busy trying to rub dirt in the eyes of those who view things in a different way.
While that may be a valid concern in regards to the far leftists, there's as much of a concern for the uber conservatives. You know the ones. The ones running around starting facebook groups that say Obama isn't their president. And the ones that ruined McCain's rallies by shouting out racist and ignorant things directed at Obama. Those wacky folks will continue to sow the seeds of discontent. Obama's time as president won't bring the opposing ends of the political spectrum any closer together than anyone before him. Why? Because the opposing ends don't want to be brought together. That's not a democrat or a republican thing, it's an extremists thing. So to try and claim that one group might do it and ignore the other is to blind yourself to the truth that their are idiots on both sides.


Yeah. I agree with Kevin. The head out of the bag or revealing aliens to the world would be the only things to help his image.

That would have been sweet. That and a few polaroids of a shirtless Bush, covered in blood holding said head, signifying that he did the dirty dee himself. I'd give the guy a blow job if he did that. A gay blow job.

Dan-C
01-12-2009, 02:53 PM
Yeah. I agree with Kevin. The head out of the bag or revealing aliens to the world would be the only things to help his image.

Maybe he can pardon Pluto and get it reclassified as a planet.

Gail Simone
01-12-2009, 02:55 PM
I can't believe this man has either the a) gall or b) delusion that America's reputation didn't go down under his brilliant care.

I've traveled the world the past few years. You can't AVOID seeing our worsening credibility and affection among even our best allies.

ZombieSpeedball
01-12-2009, 02:57 PM
That would have been sweet. That and a few polaroids of a shirtless Bush, covered in blood holding said head, signifying that he did the dirty dee himself. I'd give the guy a blow job if he did that. A gay blow job.

I think trying to give him a straight blowjob would have been more work on your part.

information
01-12-2009, 03:02 PM
I appreciated his attention to AIDS in Africa.

It's a damned shame he fucked up everything else.

Good riddance.

Kedd
01-12-2009, 03:04 PM
I think trying to give him a straight blowjob would have been more work on your part.
A straight one has fewer perks. Gay one he gets a little action on the back end if you get what I'm saying. Yeah, you get what I'm saying, alright. This guy, he understands.

I'm saying I'd stick my finger in his butt

Kedd
01-12-2009, 03:05 PM
I appreciated his attention to AIDS in Africa.

It's a damned shame he fucked up everything else.

Good riddance.

Yeah, the man did a lot of work on that front, can't fault him for that in anyway.

costello
01-12-2009, 04:40 PM
Does every thread have a "Let's shit on this guy" quota? This is really getting old. I know I had my moment of kicking and screaming, but it feels like common practice now.

WillieLee
01-12-2009, 05:03 PM
List of Coalition forces by number of military personnel
Country Number of Personnel Comments / Major Events
United States 575,000 - 697,000 Operation Desert Shield


The majority of those countries went to war with Iraq as well.

RebootedCorpse
01-12-2009, 05:07 PM
The majority of those countries went to war with Iraq as well.

The countries with the exception of the UK sent a handful of troops. They almost all withdrew after finding out the extent of the Bush lies.

Doc Randy
01-12-2009, 05:22 PM
Did anybody ask him the following questions:

- If you respect the press so much, why so few press conferences or Q&A sessions? And of the few you had, why was it necessary to script many of them (which you admitted on national TV, btw)? You are the most powerful man in the world. Why so afraid of a few questions? And why the fear of little old Helen Thomas?

- Any word on finding the millions of emails that your team erased? You know, all those correspondences that are required by law to be archived?

- After 8 years in the Oval Office, can you tell us once and for all which branch of government the VP is in?

- Is this press conference just another one of your attempts to "catapult the propaganda" as you so eloquently put it? Any other paid propagandists we need to know about?

- Are there any gay male hookers with White House press credentials and security clearance that are operating under an assumed name for a dubious news organization here today to ask any scripted softball questions? Jeff Gannon? Are you here again?

- Do you feel you "restored honor and integrity to the White House"?

WillieLee
01-12-2009, 05:29 PM
They almost all withdrew after finding out the extent of the Bush lies.

That's not accurate at all.

bachman
01-12-2009, 05:33 PM
That's not accurate at all.

Oversimplified rhetoric is easier to spout than accurate explanations of such complex situations.

Mark Mavro (kryptic6)
01-12-2009, 05:37 PM
I can't believe this man has either the a) gall or b) delusion that America's reputation didn't go down under his brilliant care.

I've traveled the world the past few years. You can't AVOID seeing our worsening credibility and affection among even our best allies.

I got to hear it straight from my relatives living abroad in both Greece and Mexico. We are a joke to them. More so than usual.

Doc Randy
01-12-2009, 05:39 PM
Who in the rest of the world are they supposed to convince?

Turkey would have been the most important one. Our inability to convince them of our cause led to the massive delay in deployment of the 4th Infantry Division. If the 4ID could have moved in in March of 2003 from the north, things may have been very different in terms of looting and civil unrest.

France would have been nice. Contrary to rhetoric, they do have one of the most experienced and effective expeditionary forces in the world.

Italy and Spain both were initial supporters, but both withdrew as the realities became more obvious.

WillieLee
01-12-2009, 05:59 PM
Turkey would have been the most important one. Our inability to convince them of our cause led to the massive delay in deployment of the 4th Infantry Division. If the 4ID could have moved in in March of 2003 from the north, things may have been very different in terms of looting and civil unrest.

France would have been nice. Contrary to rhetoric, they do have one of the most experienced and effective expeditionary forces in the world.

Italy and Spain both were initial supporters, but both withdrew as the realities became more obvious.

In regards to now. The statement gets tossed around that America has to redeem themselves in the eyes of the world. But who specifically are they supposed to ask for forgiveness and understanding? Canada is probably the only traditional US ally that hasn't been involved in toppling a foreign leader(except Afghanistan) or backed a genocide in the last couple decades.

Doc Randy
01-12-2009, 06:15 PM
In regards to now. The statement gets tossed around that America has to redeem themselves in the eyes of the world. But who specifically are they supposed to ask for forgiveness and understanding? Canada is probably the only traditional US ally that hasn't been involved in toppling a foreign leader(except Afghanistan) or backed a genocide in the last couple decades.

You have a good point.

I guess the best answer would be the greater global community... but I would specifically call out most of western Europe with expeditionary forces (Spain, France, Germany, etc). And I only say this because the next time there may be a reason to go to war (ideally a legitimate one), we may want a multilateral force with shared costs and responsibility. I worry that our actions in Iraq made it less likely that we will be believed in the run up to the next war. This may lead to less support from these countries.

Our current standing within these countries currently makes it impossible to ever get the consent of the population for their nations to join in a military pursuit with us. We're just too damn unpopular.

dasNdanger
01-12-2009, 06:57 PM
Just had to dust this ol' thing off...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasNdanger/monkeybush1.jpg


das

WillieLee
01-12-2009, 07:03 PM
You have a good point.

I guess the best answer would be the greater global community... but I would specifically call out most of western Europe with expeditionary forces (Spain, France, Germany, etc). And I only say this because the next time there may be a reason to go to war (ideally a legitimate one), we may want a multilateral force with shared costs and responsibility. I worry that our actions in Iraq made it less likely that we will be believed in the run up to the next war. This may lead to less support from these countries.

Our current standing within these countries currently makes it impossible to ever get the consent of the population for their nations to join in a military pursuit with us. We're just too damn unpopular.

I don't think the strain between Europe and the US is as great as the media and other people claim. NATO is still strong and the US is still calling the shots. France is increasing their commitment to NATO, and even rejoined the military structure. If they had a major problem with the US I don't think they would be making these moves.

A few public mea culpa's and Europe will go back to their silent jealousy of the US. The US stood by those countries through a lot of their own nonsense, it's not going to take much to remind them of that. Hell, France was a direct participant in the Rwandan genocide, violated dozens of UN embargos and now people think the US should be apologizing to them.

Thudpucker
01-12-2009, 07:04 PM
What suprises me most is how poor his public speaking skills still are 8 years into his Presidency. It's embarrasing, not for him but for us.

Humphrey_Lee
01-12-2009, 08:42 PM
I was not apologizing for him or making excuses. I simply said that there was in fact a recession when he got in. I got the impression from Kedds post that he did not believe that.

Oh no, wasn't saying you were sir, I was just giving the low down but, as tends to happen when I look back and think at how bad a man who was basically left the keys to the kingdom after a good eight years for ourselves economically could fuck shit up beyond repair, I went on a tangent. Nothing aimed at you my man.

Patch
01-12-2009, 08:50 PM
I'll never fathom how this guy received enough (or near enough) votes to become a President.

Marcdachamp
01-12-2009, 09:01 PM
I'll never fathom how this guy received enough (or near enough) votes to become a President.

TWICE! Ughhhh... :no:

HOOKS
01-12-2009, 09:04 PM
I'll never fathom how this guy received enough (or near enough) votes to become a President.

The Bush Republican Party (which I consider far different from Reagan-era Republicans) successfully branded themselves as the pro-America party.

Never question America. Bush kept us safe. He is one of us.

The last eight years essentially saw a slow split down the middle of America, and the recent presidential election sought to keep the split open with the pro-America/anti-America rants and people basically living up to their fears.

In 2000, Bush sought to regain honor to the White House.

In 2004, 9/11 was still fresh in our memories, Katrina hadn't happened yet, and the economy hadn't collapsed yet. And the Democratic Party had John Kerry as their Democratic candidate for President of the United States.

Armored Dildo
01-12-2009, 09:07 PM
The Bush Republican Party (which I consider far different from Reagan-era Republicans) successfully branded themselves as the pro-America party.

Never question America. Bush kept us safe. He is one of us.

The last eight years essentially saw a slow split down the middle of America, and the recent presidential election sought to keep the split open with the pro-America/anti-America rants and people basically living up to their fears.

In 2000, Bush sought to regain honor to the White House.

In 2004, 9/11 was still fresh in our memories, Katrina hadn't happened yet, and the economy hadn't collapsed yet. And the Democratic Party had John Kerry as their Democratic candidate for President of the United States.

Fair point: The re-election is actually explainable.

Kedd
01-12-2009, 09:13 PM
What suprises me most is how poor his public speaking skills still are 8 years into his Presidency. It's embarrasing, not for him but for us.
Tell that to this guy

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2008/11/022038.php

The only news Barack Obama made in his first post-election press conference was when, in a classless moment, he falsely ridiculed Nancy Reagan for holding "seances" in the White House. He was then compelled to call her to apologize for what he termed his "careless remark."

It appears that Obama may have been careless again yesterday, with international consequences. He spoke with the President of Poland, Lech Kaczynski, on the telephone. Afterward, Kaczynski wrote that Obama "said that the missile-defense project would continue." The Obama camp then released a statement to the effect that Obama had said no such thing: "President Kaczynski raised missile defense but President-elect Obama made no commitment on it."

It's possible that President Kaczynski deliberately misquoted Obama, but that seems highly unlikely. It's much more probable that Obama indulged in his usual ambiguity, failed to choose his words carefully, and thereby conveyed a misleading impression.

Obama thinks he is a good talker, but he is often undisciplined when he speaks. He needs to understand that as President, his words will be scrutinized and will have impact whether he intends it or not. In this regard, President Bush is an excellent model; Obama should take a lesson from his example. Bush never gets sloppy when he is speaking publicly. He chooses his words with care and precision, which is why his style sometimes seems halting. In the eight years he has been President, it is remarkable how few gaffes or verbal blunders he has committed. If Obama doesn't raise his standards, he will exceed Bush's total before he is inaugurated.

Patch
01-12-2009, 09:14 PM
The Bush Republican Party (which I consider far different from Reagan-era Republicans) successfully branded themselves as the pro-America party.

Never question America. Bush kept us safe. He is one of us.

The last eight years essentially saw a split down the middle of America, and the recent presidential election sought to keep the split open with the pro-America/anti-America rants and people basically living up to their fears.

Plus, in 2004, 9/11 was still fresh in our memories, Katrina hadn't happened yet, and the economy hadn't collapsed yet. And the Democratic Party had John Kerry as their Democratic candidate for President of the United States.

Thanks. But I was referring to Reagan, been working a lot, really busy and...
who's this Bush character?

Ashwin Pande
01-12-2009, 09:20 PM
That article is written ironically right? No one can be that detached from reality...

XXXenophile
01-12-2009, 11:49 PM
What I'm wondering is:

Bush asked for and apparently got time from the networks on Thurs night to give "final address to the people."

Why didn't they just say "No?". Or at least some of them. Hell, ABC woudln't air Obama's infomercial.

dasNdanger
01-13-2009, 03:40 AM
I'll never fathom how this guy received enough (or near enough) votes to become a President.


Can't count the first time... ;)

And the only reason he got as many votes as he did the first time was because he wasn't as wooden as Gore - like it or no, Bush has a sort of Howdy Doody charm. To the average American, he just seemed more approachable. Second time is almost the same...Kerry lacked charisma - he came across as intellectual and stuffy - and then you add into the mix the 'fear factor' that Republicans thrive on. In both elections, I think people voted on autodrive - on personality - without thinking things through.

However, the last four years has forced Americans to really THINK about the presidency, what it means to them personally, what the consquences are when you 'choose poorly'. Add to that a candidate with a strong platform, and intelligence and decorum tempered by charm, and finally we have someone in the office that was a very thoughtful choice. Now...let's see what he does with it.


das

Andreas
01-13-2009, 05:51 AM
Tell that to this guy

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2008/11/022038.php


...

It's possible that President Kaczynski deliberately misquoted Obama, but that seems highly unlikely.

...

:lol:

No, seriously, that sounds a lot like the thing Kaczynski would do. I wouldn't trust him to walk my dog.

Andreas

RebootedCorpse
01-13-2009, 06:34 AM
Just in from AP: Bush says he leaves office with "a great sense of accomplishment."

Brother Power the Gong
01-13-2009, 06:35 AM
Just in from AP: Bush says he leaves office with "a great sense of accomplishment."

I think it can fairly be said he accomplished plenty in his eight years in office.

Dreg
01-13-2009, 07:19 AM
Yep. Avoiding a futile waste of life will make you popular. I agree with him on that. If somebody avoids wanton slaughter, I make a habit of signing their yearbook. That's what it takes to get into the in-crowd, kids, even more so than popping your collar or finding the key to your parent's liquor cabinet.

Peaceful resolutions are this year's Calvin Klein jeans.

Maxwell
01-13-2009, 07:25 AM
I saw a snippet, when he was talking about Katrina, and he seemed pretty pissed off!

Dreg
01-13-2009, 07:32 AM
I saw a snippet, when he was talking about Katrina, and he seemed pretty pissed off!

Why is everyone so slow to offer support to President Bush in his emotional crisis over this matter?

Taxman
01-13-2009, 07:35 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/glima/Motivational/motivator8118910.jpg

Vigilance
01-13-2009, 08:07 AM
I really do hope that Obama's term as President helps to unify the country. I think that's his goal, unfortunately I think those on the Democratic, liberal, whatever general term you want to use will not allow it as they will be busy trying to rub dirt in the eyes of those who view things in a different way.

Ah yes, if the country doesn't come together, it will be the fault of all those mean Dems.

I mean, it's not like Republicans strutted around for 6 years exploding the debt, invading foreign countries who posed no threat to us, touting their party as a "Permanent American Majority" and "The Party of Ideas" while threatening any lobbyist who so much as dared to SPEAK to a member of the opposition party.

But hey, why do they have to hold a grudge. Can't they just let bygones be bygones? One little terrorist attack, one little hurricane, one little gulag set up in Cuba, one little war...

When will the Dems learn to let things GO?