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View Full Version : Jeebus help me, I LIKE Loeb now.



Fake Pat
12-17-2008, 01:42 PM
If you told me last year that Jeph Loeb would become one of my favorite current writers, I would have laughed, vomited, whacked you in the face with the nearest Clowes comic I could find, and jumped off a cliff.

And now I seriously love both Hulk and Ultimatum. Loooooooooooove them. Don't get me wrong, they're not particularly well-written. In fact, there are definitely moments (particularly his "funny" dialogue) that even I find cringe-inducing. But that sort of stuff has become part of the charm for me. He's the closest thing Marvel has to a Frank Miller right now. Both can get away with pretty much every ridiculous thing they feel like tossing in a script. The sheer balls of his current work, and the fact that I think Loeb is doing a little of it intentionally (particularly in Hulk), has earned my respect.

Thank god nobody told me this a year ago.

Ray G.
12-17-2008, 01:44 PM
Hulk is essentially Marvel's ASB&R.

I loathed Ultimatum/Ultimates, though.

EdNEMO
12-17-2008, 01:45 PM
I'm waiting for Ultimatum to be collected. But in the meantime, I loved Red Hulk!

Fake Pat
12-17-2008, 01:46 PM
Hulk is essentially Marvel's ASB&R.

I loathed Ultimatum/Ultimates, though.

Ultimates I didn't like that much, though that was based more on the art/coloring.

Ultimatum I love already. And I'm sure it's only gonna get way more insane as it continues, which means I'll probably just like it more.

NickT
12-17-2008, 01:46 PM
Hulk is essentially Marvel's ASB&R.

I really don't see that. If you go with what Miller and the fans say, ASB&R is satire. Hulk isn't satire, it's over the top.

NeverWanderer
12-17-2008, 01:47 PM
I think that, with the exception of his retro stories and Fallen Son, a lot of Loeb's Marvel stuff is purposely over the top in the style of classic silver age comics. BIG action and BIG statements. Written for the entertainment and spectacle rather than the subtlety and realism that defines much of Marvel lately.

It might not always work, but I never feel like he's just lost control.

I like 'im!

Masculine Todd
12-17-2008, 01:52 PM
This is why I love Hudlin.

Oh, and I legitimately enjoy Loeb's work, but haven't read Hulk or Ultimatum yet.

THWIP!
12-17-2008, 01:56 PM
On CBR they have an interview with him about the Buffy issue he's coming out with this week and he said he started using "Rulk" because he saw it online, or something like that.

It made me laugh and shake my head at the same time.

NickT
12-17-2008, 02:00 PM
For me, since he came back to Marvel...

Fallen Son - Liked issues 1, 3 and 5.

Hulk - Great fun.

Ultimatum - On the fence, could go either way.

Ultimates 3 - Not as bad as some made out, but not great either. Hawkeye was a highlight, Thor was a lowlight and epitomises the problem with where the Ultimate Universe is right now IMO.

Sy-Klone
12-17-2008, 02:03 PM
I dig Hulk, but it's mostly for the art. I'm looking forward to Captain America: White. Beyond that, Loeb has been pretty hit-and-miss with me (and more miss than hit).

Jason California
12-17-2008, 02:04 PM
I am glad I haven't caught whatever you have.

AceOfSpades
12-17-2008, 02:11 PM
I quite like Loeb's work
Hush was good
Hulk has been good fun to read (something which is missing a lot these days)
Ultimates 3...moving on...
Ultimatum has got off to a good start but could go either way

So yeah, he ain't that bad

Ray G.
12-17-2008, 02:13 PM
Actually, this seems like the place to say that his Buffy issue this week was pretty great.

Fake Pat
12-17-2008, 02:21 PM
On CBR they have an interview with him about the Buffy issue he's coming out with this week and he said he started using "Rulk" because he saw it online, or something like that.

It made me laugh and shake my head at the same time.

There's an undeniable connection between Hulk and All-Star Bats.

Both are clearly influenced by the internet fanbase.

Chris McCarver
12-17-2008, 03:12 PM
I've never really had that much of a problem with his work, and never really understood the vitriol that gets thrown his direction. He's not Warren Ellis-awesome but he isn't Chuck Austen-atrocious by any means.

Fake Pat
12-17-2008, 03:13 PM
I've never really had that much of a problem with his work, and never really understood the vitriol that gets thrown his direction. He's not Warren Ellis-awesome but he isn't Chuck Austen-atrocious by any means.

At certain times, yeah, he really kind of is.

Xander Boune
12-17-2008, 03:16 PM
The Buffy issue he scripted that came out today was wonderful.

Fake Pat
12-17-2008, 03:17 PM
The Buffy issue he scripted that came out today was wonderful.

Really?

Could I pick it up and like it without having read the previous issues?

Xander Boune
12-17-2008, 03:20 PM
Really?

Could I pick it up and like it without having read the previous issues?

I think so. It's a one-off that kind of encapsulates what the animated series would have been like.

lonesomefool
12-17-2008, 03:28 PM
I can see the appeal of Hulk, but still, I'm not going to pay money for it. It's just not for me, I tend to not like such bombastic stories.

Ultimatum was awful IMO, it was almost as if it was written in the exact way an event comic should NOT be written.

tom daylight
12-17-2008, 04:07 PM
I love Ultimates 3. I think it's brilliant. I do sort of understand why people hate it so much though.

Dan-C
12-17-2008, 04:11 PM
he wrote last night's episode of Heroes which was pretty good as well.

Albert
12-17-2008, 04:43 PM
Jeebus?

Patrick King
12-17-2008, 05:16 PM
A buddy of mine never shuts the hell up about how much he doesn't like Loeb's work. Like seriously.

Masculine Todd
12-17-2008, 05:23 PM
Jeebus?

I didn't want to be the one to say it.

Fake Pat
12-17-2008, 05:41 PM
I didn't want to be the one to say it.

I wasn't gonna put the actual g-word or j-word in a thread title.

I have a rep to maintain. :)

Masculine Todd
12-17-2008, 05:49 PM
I wasn't gonna put the actual g-word or j-word in a thread title.

I have a rep to maintain. :)

Have you thought of Mohammad?

Dreaded Anomaly
12-17-2008, 06:00 PM
The Buffy issue he scripted that came out today was wonderful.

It definitely was. I haven't enjoyed much of Loeb's recent work for Marvel, but I was pleasantly surprised by this.

rwsmith
12-17-2008, 06:23 PM
Hulk is pretty decent, but Ultimatum is awful IMO. And it's only going to get worse, especially if they kill Wolverine. :angry:

CWebb
12-17-2008, 06:49 PM
The Buffy issue he scripted that came out today was wonderful.


Actually, this seems like the place to say that his Buffy issue this week was pretty great.
Couldn't agree more. He really seemed to have the voice for the characters down and the story overall was a lot of fun to read.

JEK
12-17-2008, 06:52 PM
He's the closest thing Marvel has to a Frank Miller right now. Both can get away with pretty much every ridiculous thing they feel like tossing in a script.


i have to respectfully disagree with this statement. Miller is poking fun at what batman has become, that batman has swung too far to an extreme which Miller started in motion. ASB&R is a statement on character and serves a purpose.

Loeb on the other hand seems to have no statement to make, other then "this is the craziest thing EVER!!!!" while i don't nessisarily hate this, and i do buy most of Loebs work, but it has no deep underlying meaning.

Really the problem i have with Loeb is that i feel he refuses to put any of himself in his work. this isn't always true, his early works like Superman for all seasons, Long Halloween, and Spiderman Blue, are filled with genuine emotion, and recently Fallen Son was from the soul, but on the whole it is one big explosion after another. this is even seen in his TV work. Heroes seems to me to lack that honesty, unlike smallville, which for all its campiness, had something truthful behnd it. his recent stuff seems to be all about the "cool moment' he has come up with, and i think there is a hollowness to his books.

i just really hope that Tim Sale brings Loeb out of himself on Cap White because i really want to love Loeb's work, because i respect him so much.

NATE!
12-17-2008, 06:55 PM
Loeb just writes fun comics. You won't really see his stuff reach the level of Watchmen where you have someone desperately seeking to have their hobby justified and validated by saying "GRAETIST GRAFFIC NOVUL OF ALL TIEM LOLOLOLOL", but his stuff has been a consistently fun read.

JEK
12-17-2008, 07:07 PM
Loeb just writes fun comics. You won't really see his stuff reach the level of Watchmen where you have someone desperately seeking to have their hobby justified and validated by saying "GRAETIST GRAFFIC NOVUL OF ALL TIEM LOLOLOLOL", but his stuff has been a consistently fun read.

i am not saying it needs to be fine lit, i just want a level of honesty from a writer of anything, and i think that Loeb has been keeping his audience at arms length for a little while now, and i hope that he will have a return to putting his soul into his work.

i am talking about the difference between Rocky and Rocky 3, both are fun to watch, but Rocky has an honesty to it, a realness, where as Rocky 3 is just junk that entertains for 90 min. but leaves me feeling vacant after watching

McJerk
12-17-2008, 07:09 PM
Absolutely terrible.

PimpSlapStick!
12-17-2008, 07:16 PM
If you told me last year that Jeph Loeb would become one of my favorite current writers, I would have laughed, vomited, whacked you in the face with the nearest Clowes comic I could find, and jumped off a cliff.

And now I seriously love both Hulk and Ultimatum. Loooooooooooove them. Don't get me wrong, they're not particularly well-written. In fact, there are definitely moments (particularly his "funny" dialogue) that even I find cringe-inducing. But that sort of stuff has become part of the charm for me. He's the closest thing Marvel has to a Frank Miller right now. Both can get away with pretty much every ridiculous thing they feel like tossing in a script. The sheer balls of his current work, and the fact that I think Loeb is doing a little of it intentionally (particularly in Hulk), has earned my respect.

Thank god nobody told me this a year ago.


I feel the same way although I was a fan of his earlier work, but Hulk for it's sheer retardation just tickled that pre-teen me, I know for a fact a 10 year old PimpSlap would be going apeshit over his stuff.

PimpSlapStick!
12-17-2008, 07:22 PM
Loeb just writes fun comics. You won't really see his stuff reach the level of Watchmen where you have someone desperately seeking to have their hobby justified and validated by saying "GRAETIST GRAFFIC NOVUL OF ALL TIEM LOLOLOLOL", but his stuff has been a consistently fun read.

Yeah I've pretty much given up on Loeb returning to his former glory and just enjoy the insantity that is his work now. Plus like you said not every comic has to be Watchmen, sometimes I feel like stupid fun and his stuff is both stupid and fun.


i am not saying it needs to be fine lit, i just want a level of honesty from a writer of anything, and i think that Loeb has been keeping his audience at arms length for a little while now, and i hope that he will have a return to putting his soul into his work.

i am talking about the difference between Rocky and Rocky 3, both are fun to watch, but Rocky has an honesty to it, a realness, where as Rocky 3 is just junk that entertains for 90 min. but leaves me feeling vacant after watching

I don't wanna say it's the death of Sam that has done this to his work, but maybe he's just trying to break new ground in mindless comics I dunno.

Joe Henderson
12-17-2008, 07:25 PM
i have to respectfully disagree with this statement. Miller is poking fun at what batman has become, that batman has swung too far to an extreme which Miller started in motion. ASB&R is a statement on character and serves a purpose.

Loeb on the other hand seems to have no statement to make, other then "this is the craziest thing EVER!!!!" while i don't nessisarily hate this, and i do buy most of Loebs work, but it has no deep underlying meaning.

Really the problem i have with Loeb is that i feel he refuses to put any of himself in his work. this isn't always true, his early works like Superman for all seasons, Long Halloween, and Spiderman Blue, are filled with genuine emotion, and recently Fallen Son was from the soul, but on the whole it is one big explosion after another. this is even seen in his TV work. Heroes seems to me to lack that honesty, unlike smallville, which for all its campiness, had something truthful behnd it. his recent stuff seems to be all about the "cool moment' he has come up with, and i think there is a hollowness to his books.

i just really hope that Tim Sale brings Loeb out of himself on Cap White because i really want to love Loeb's work, because i respect him so much.

I think you're giving Frank Miller way too much credit. I look forward to hearing how The Spirit is a commentary on super hero movies, made purposefully terrible to show how stupid all the superhero conventions truly are.

PimpSlapStick!
12-17-2008, 07:28 PM
I think you're giving Frank Miller way too much credit. I look forward to hearing how The Spirit is a commentary on super hero movies, made purposefully terrible to show how stupid all the superhero conventions truly are.


C'mon of course that's what he's doing ;)

lonesomefool
12-17-2008, 07:30 PM
Loeb just writes fun comics. You won't really see his stuff reach the level of Watchmen where you have someone desperately seeking to have their hobby justified and validated by saying "GRAETIST GRAFFIC NOVUL OF ALL TIEM LOLOLOLOL", but his stuff has been a consistently fun read.

I dont think it's fair to say all Loeb detractors are just looking for their hobby to be justified or validated.

I could care less about the industry being validated, I just want some depth and meat for my $3 (soon to be $4). Red Hulk punching the Watcher doesnt entertain me or do anything for me, at least not on the level that, say Captain America by Brubaker can do.

I see the audience for it and I think, quite frankly, it's smart of Loeb to do it since there is clearly a segment of fandom who are tired of the navel gazing comics and just want to see shit blow up for 22 pages and Loeb has that market cornered, but I cant say I'm one of them.

PimpSlapStick!
12-17-2008, 07:34 PM
I dont think it's fair to say all Loeb detractors are just looking for their hobby to be justified or validated.

I could care less about the industry being validated, I just want some depth and meat for my $3 (soon to be $4). Red Hulk punching the Watcher doesnt entertain me or do anything for me, at least not on the level that, say Captain America by Brubaker can do.

I see the audience for it and I think, quite frankly, it's smart of Loeb to do it since there is clearly a segment of fandom who are tired of the navel gazing comics and just want to see shit blow up for 22 pages and Loeb has that market cornered, but I cant say I'm one of them.


That'll be me :cool:

That's kinda my point, I can read both Brubaker's Cap and Loeb's Hulk.

Bru is for the mature well read PimpSlap and Loeb is for the pimple faced retard PimpSlap of 1993

AndrewG
12-17-2008, 07:37 PM
Fun comics and he's a hell of a nice guy. I'm a fan for life.

JEK
12-17-2008, 07:50 PM
I think you're giving Frank Miller way too much credit. I look forward to hearing how The Spirit is a commentary on super hero movies, made purposefully terrible to show how stupid all the superhero conventions truly are.

the ONLY reason i will give Miller the credit i am giving him is because he was the man who redefined batman into the grim and gritty hero he is today.

as for the spirit, i have SERIOUS misgivings about what the trailers have shown me so far


I dont think it's fair to say all Loeb detractors are just looking for their hobby to be justified or validated.

I see the audience for it and I think, quite frankly, it's smart of Loeb to do it since there is clearly a segment of fandom who are tired of the navel gazing comics and just want to see shit blow up for 22 pages and Loeb has that market cornered, but I cant say I'm one of them.

i actually am a buyer of both, but i believe in calling a spade a spade, and Red Hulk is just big explosions and fantastic seneros, not character development and relationships.

Nick MB
12-17-2008, 07:55 PM
I can see the fun in Hulk, even if it isn't for me. But I think pushing him this hard in the Ultimate line was somewhat of a misjudgment, as it's just such a ludicrous shift from what people looked to those titles for. If they really wanted to have Jeph Loeb do The OTT Avengers, they should have put him on Mighty instead of Dan Slott, not bent the Ultimates around for him.