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View Full Version : What bugs me about X-Men right now--Kitty Pryde



Joe Henderson
11-24-2008, 01:58 PM
Okay, so Kitty Pryde's bonded to a giant bullet and sailing through space. And the X-Men...are doing nothing? The best Colossus can do is mope around?

This is really starting to drive me crazy. I know in Astonishing they have a beat where they explain it away--"all the best minds have tried to figure some way to save her, but they can't."

Here's the main problem--right now, you have Beast trying to figure out a way to reverse M-Day. And even though he's encountered setback after setback, he's still trying. He hasn't given up.

But Colossus...well, Cyclops tells him 'we've tried everything', and he just gives up and leaves the woman he loves sailing around in a bullet through space so that he can mope around town.

On a base level, I just don't buy it. Colossus should be fighting every step of the way, figuring out something, anything, no matter how foolish or dangerous to himself. Cyclops tells him that the scientists are 'still trying'--great, then Colossus should be spending every hour over their shoulders, pushing them, demanding that the get her back.

Mostly, I'm confused why a story so rich in potential is being completely ignored.

Am I missing something?

Dr. Hackenbush
11-24-2008, 02:07 PM
Am I missing something?

Sorta. It should go a little something like this...

Beast (on the telephone): Hey Reed, listen, you remember Kitty Pryde, right?

Reed Richards: Sure, of course.

Beast: Well she got herself into a bit of a pickle. She's phased inside of a giant bullet hurdling through space. Is there any way you could track her down and get her out of there?

Reed: Sure, just let me finish nailing my hot wife then I'll get right on it.

fin.

Nick MB
11-24-2008, 02:07 PM
I presume they've made the active decision not to bring her back yet, and to have Colossus now spend all his time obsessing over it when they know it won't yet happen would be a bit lame. Where's the subplot's ending? They're just going to string it out for five, six, ten years until the writers finally want her back? They could have him obssess over it and then be told it won't happen, but that is kinda just a repeat of the moment you mentioned in Astonishing.

Joe Henderson
11-24-2008, 02:14 PM
I presume they've made the active decision not to bring her back yet, and to have Colossus now spend all his time obsessing over it when they know it won't yet happen would be a bit lame. Where's the subplot's ending? They're just going to string it out for five, six, ten years until the writers finally want her back? They could have him obssess over it and then be told it won't happen, but that is kinda just a repeat of the moment you mentioned in Astonishing.

I just don't buy a strong willed character like Peter giving up on the love of his life, especially when she's in such a nebulous situation and they have the ability to do such extraordinary things. If she's dead, sure, this makes sense. But trapped in a bullet flying through space? At the very least, they should be able to get to the bullet, and then try to figure things out from there.

Jason California
11-24-2008, 02:18 PM
Colossus should rest easy. He was dead for a while as well. In a few months to years someone will take her place in the dead room so that she can come back out and play.

Maybe that is why no one is working to hard to bring her back.

Dr. Hackenbush
11-24-2008, 02:19 PM
Or maybe that bullet makes its way over to Havoc and Polaris just in time for War of Kings?

Dreaded Anomaly
11-24-2008, 02:19 PM
I hope the epilogue to X-Infernus is Illyana teleporting into the bullet, grabbing Kitty, and teleporting out.

Fake Pat
11-24-2008, 02:19 PM
You could apply this sort of complaint to the entire Marvel Universe.

If all the super-powerful characters actually wanted to, they could make the place a utopia.

Jason California
11-24-2008, 02:21 PM
Or maybe that bullet makes its way over to Havoc and Polaris just in time for War of Kings?

This is the type of thing happening that I fully expect. The X-Men will be like " What were the odds that 2 totally separate story lines in the last year have convientely merged?

And we will all be like "wink,wink";)

Magnum V.I.
11-24-2008, 02:23 PM
What can Peter do? He's not a Scientist as far as I know. He's a simple farm boy with a deep emotional side. It doesn't bug me that they aren't "actively" trying to bring her back. They might be doing stuff "behind the scenes". Mutants are nearly extinct, Since Kitty has been gone there has been an invasion and a civil war. The X-Men relocated to San-Fran. Peter has recently been DEAD. So maybe he isn't trying to suicidally find a speeding Bullet through the universe. He is mourning right now in his own way. This is the only real "down time" we have seen the character have.

i think the bigger gaffe would be if they had him show no emotion whatsoever and acted as if everything was fine.

Dr. Hackenbush
11-24-2008, 02:24 PM
This is the type of thing happening that I fully expect. The X-Men will be like " What were the odds that 2 totally separate story lines in the last year have convientely merged?

And we will all be like "wink,wink";)

There's your War of Kings grand finale right there - Vulcan killed by a giant bullet completely out of the blue. Never saw it coming.

Magnum V.I.
11-24-2008, 02:24 PM
You could apply this sort of complaint to the entire Marvel Universe.

If all the super-powerful characters actually wanted to, they could make the place a utopia.

And DC. :)

Fake Pat
11-24-2008, 02:27 PM
And DC. :)

Oh, even more so.

Ray G.
11-24-2008, 04:18 PM
You could apply this sort of complaint to the entire Marvel Universe.

If all the super-powerful characters actually wanted to, they could make the place a utopia.

The difference is that, unlike with the case of Spider-man and the whole Aunt May issue, this isn't a comic even remotely grounded in reality. X-men and Fantastic Four are really the two corners of the Marvel Universe where things are just so outlandish and extraordinary that you can't get away with stuff like this.

Not to mention that Kitty's predicament, is, pure and simple...idiotic. It's literally one of the worst plot twists I've ever read. The MU has thousands of people who could track the bullet and stop it, and then they can actually work on figuring out how to free her. It's just plain dumb. If they really wanted to remove her, they should have just killed her. If they didn't and they have a plan...well, then it's just weak writing that will be forgotten soon enough.

Fake Pat
11-24-2008, 04:28 PM
The difference is that, unlike with the case of Spider-man and the whole Aunt May issue, this isn't a comic even remotely grounded in reality. X-men and Fantastic Four are really the two corners of the Marvel Universe where things are just so outlandish and extraordinary that you can't get away with stuff like this.

Not to mention that Kitty's predicament, is, pure and simple...idiotic. It's literally one of the worst plot twists I've ever read. The MU has thousands of people who could track the bullet and stop it, and then they can actually work on figuring out how to free her. It's just plain dumb. If they really wanted to remove her, they should have just killed her. If they didn't and they have a plan...well, then it's just weak writing that will be forgotten soon enough.

Again, you could apply that to any single challenge the FF or the X-Men have ever faced.

The FF can time-travel. Once you have that, you can argue that every story should be 2 pages; the first in which they are made aware of a conflict and the second where they time travel and prevent that conflict from ever arising.

Magnum V.I.
11-24-2008, 04:30 PM
The difference is that, unlike with the case of Spider-man and the whole Aunt May issue, this isn't a comic even remotely grounded in reality. X-men and Fantastic Four are really the two corners of the Marvel Universe where things are just so outlandish and extraordinary that you can't get away with stuff like this.

Not to mention that Kitty's predicament, is, pure and simple...idiotic. It's literally one of the worst plot twists I've ever read. The MU has thousands of people who could track the bullet and stop it, and then they can actually work on figuring out how to free her. It's just plain dumb. If they really wanted to remove her, they should have just killed her. If they didn't and they have a plan...well, then it's just weak writing that will be forgotten soon enough.

Well yeah but at least the Bullet didn't destroy the Multiverse like a kid having a tantrum!

Ray G.
11-24-2008, 04:30 PM
Again, you could apply that to any single challenge the FF or the X-Men have ever faced.

The FF can time-travel. Once you have that, you can argue that every story should be 2 pages; the first in which they are made aware of a conflict and the second where they time travel and prevent that conflict from ever arising.

Nope. Time travel in the MU doesn't usually work. It creates an alternate timeline.

This is different. This is a practical problem with a practical solution that they are refusing to solve.

Fake Pat
11-24-2008, 04:33 PM
Nope. Time travel in the MU doesn't usually work. It creates an alternate timeline.

This is different. This is a practical problem with a practical solution that they are refusing to solve.

Yeah, it creates an alternate timeline where there's no problem.

Cosmic cubes, pals who are literally gods, Scarlet Witch, Infinity Gems, etc. Every conflict has a "practical solution" that characters refuse to use.

Thudpucker
11-24-2008, 04:37 PM
It would render a characters sacrifice meaningless if the consequences are reversed too quickly.

What is the point of large events and conflicts in a story if there is no loss, no danger? Kitty will be back, everyone comes back. Even Bucky. She can't be brought back too quickly though, if she is then the big emotional momment of Whedons run is undone.

Ray G.
11-24-2008, 04:37 PM
Yeah, it creates an alternate timeline where there's no problem.

Cosmic cubes, pals who are literally gods, Scarlet Witch, Infinity Gems, etc. Every conflict has a "practical solution" that characters refuse to use.

Refusing to solve every single problem via extraordinary means is not the same as shrugging your shoulders while your teammate sails off into the void.

The problem is less that this hasn't been resolved yet than that it was the dumbest way to write out a character I've ever seen.

Slewo.O
11-24-2008, 04:47 PM
Or maybe that bullet makes its way over to Havoc and Polaris just in time for War of Kings?

That'd be pretty cool.

Also what COULD Colossus do? Besides get on their asses which wouldn't work since they said they couldn't catch the bullet there's nothing he can do to save Kitty by himself. Although I find it silly something like a bullet would be able to stop the X-Men, if they can catch Vulcan blowing up the Shi'ar Empire it shouldn't be that hard to find a bullet.

Masculine Todd
11-24-2008, 04:55 PM
They've dealt with death frequently. How many panels, pages and issues would be appropriate for him to grieve? Conversely, cool out, you know she'll return eventually.

The X-Line is pretty solid. Hurray.

Joe Henderson
11-24-2008, 04:55 PM
It would render a characters sacrifice meaningless if the consequences are reversed too quickly.

What is the point of large events and conflicts in a story if there is no loss, no danger? Kitty will be back, everyone comes back. Even Bucky. She can't be brought back too quickly though, if she is then the big emotional momment of Whedons run is undone.

Who said the consequences had to be reversed too quickly? I just want the issue dealt with. I'd love to see Colossus try and fail to save Kitty, but what I don't like is that he hasn't even TRIED yet (as far as we've seen). My problem isn't with him saving Kitty, it's the fact that I want a sense of him trying to. It's Colossus out of his element (he's a puncher, not a thinker) trying to save the woman he loves. Such a great dynamic.

Slewo.O
11-24-2008, 04:56 PM
Who said the consequences had to be reversed too quickly? I just want the issue dealt with. I'd love to see Colossus try and fail to save Kitty, but what I don't like is that he hasn't even TRIED yet (as far as we've seen). My problem isn't with him saving Kitty, it's the fact that I want a sense of him trying to. It's Colossus out of his element (he's a puncher, not a thinker) trying to save the woman he loves. Such a great dynamic.

What IS he going to do? He can't go into space himself and the X-Men have said there's nothing they can do. All he can do is grieve otherwise.

iGotKittyPryde
11-24-2008, 04:57 PM
You know what bugs me about the X-Men?

Joe Henderson.

It only seems fair.

Slewo.O
11-24-2008, 04:58 PM
You know what bugs me about the X-Men?

Joe Henderson.

It only seems fair.

:rofl:

Jason California
11-24-2008, 04:59 PM
Who said the consequences had to be reversed too quickly? I just want the issue dealt with. I'd love to see Colossus try and fail to save Kitty, but what I don't like is that he hasn't even TRIED yet (as far as we've seen). My problem isn't with him saving Kitty, it's the fact that I want a sense of him trying to. It's Colossus out of his element (he's a puncher, not a thinker) trying to save the woman he loves. Such a great dynamic.


But they are now just starting to get thing under control again. After Kitty went off into space they had to worry about the baby. then the X-Men were broken up. Collosus, Logan, and Kurt were on their cool down trip. Since then the X-men have been in a reconstitution phase, getting SF thing into gear.

Then SI hit.

It may seem like a long time has gone by for us, but it has been a relatively short time for them mired in one issue after another.

Magnum V.I.
11-24-2008, 04:59 PM
Who said the consequences had to be reversed too quickly? I just want the issue dealt with. I'd love to see Colossus try and fail to save Kitty, but what I don't like is that he hasn't even TRIED yet (as far as we've seen). My problem isn't with him saving Kitty, it's the fact that I want a sense of him trying to. It's Colossus out of his element (he's a puncher, not a thinker) trying to save the woman he loves. Such a great dynamic.

But how do you actively show him trying to deal with it other than the image of him in a giant Acme Slingshot or bugging Beast?

that stuff seems trivial to me and I like the way fraction and Brubaker addressed it in Uncanny. First with Colossus talking about it with Kurt and Logan in Russia.

And you forget, the SECOND they got back to Earth they were in the midle of Messiah compleX.

Masculine Todd
11-24-2008, 04:59 PM
You could apply this sort of complaint to the entire Marvel Universe.

If all the super-powerful characters actually wanted to, they could make the place a utopia.

Exactly. Reed Richards has created machines that do virtually anything. His brilliance is nearly infinite, and by this logic, he should be able to create something to fix anything. However, as we all know, that wouldn't work, so it has to serve the story. At this point in time, "there's nothing we can do," because the story dictates that Kitty is lost. I think it's pretty logical.

EDIT - If Richards can make a cloaking ray that unmasks shape-shifting aliens and lifts the veil of their power to show their true form, than wouldn't he be able to make a device to remove an intangible mutant from a giant bullet? The answer is "not unless the story calls for it." It's not any more or less logical that he can't than if he could, really

Slewo.O
11-24-2008, 05:00 PM
But how do you actively show him trying to deal with it other than the image of him in a giant Acme Slingshot or bugging Beast?

that stuff seems trivial to me and I like the way fraction and Brubaker addressed it in Uncanny. First with Colossus talking about it with Kurt and Logan in Russia.

And you forget, the SECOND they got back to Earth they were in the midle of Messiah compleX.

Along with moving out of that target shaped mansion and SI and such. Let's not forget the X-Men are also going to be knee-deep in Dark Reign.

Joe Henderson
11-24-2008, 05:01 PM
What IS he going to do? He can't go into space himself and the X-Men have said there's nothing they can do. All he can do is grieve otherwise.

Sure he can--he can commandeer some Shi'ar space ship that someone's hiding somewhere and go out there and get the woman he loves.

It's just a strange thing that they've written her off as a 'lost love', and she's just floating out there in space. I'd be pissed if I were her. :)


You know what bugs me about the X-Men?

Joe Henderson.

It only seems fair.

:) Bravo

The Funketeer
11-24-2008, 05:01 PM
Just one of the many reasons that Joss Whedon bugs me as a writer. He only seems capable of creating clever little situations and snippets of dialogue and relies on unnecessary deaths for emotional impact.


Okay, so Kitty Pryde's bonded to a giant bullet and sailing through space. And the X-Men...are doing nothing? The best Colossus can do is mope around?

This is really starting to drive me crazy. I know in Astonishing they have a beat where they explain it away--"all the best minds have tried to figure some way to save her, but they can't."

Here's the main problem--right now, you have Beast trying to figure out a way to reverse M-Day. And even though he's encountered setback after setback, he's still trying. He hasn't given up.

But Colossus...well, Cyclops tells him 'we've tried everything', and he just gives up and leaves the woman he loves sailing around in a bullet through space so that he can mope around town.

On a base level, I just don't buy it. Colossus should be fighting every step of the way, figuring out something, anything, no matter how foolish or dangerous to himself. Cyclops tells him that the scientists are 'still trying'--great, then Colossus should be spending every hour over their shoulders, pushing them, demanding that the get her back.

Mostly, I'm confused why a story so rich in potential is being completely ignored.

Am I missing something?

Fake Pat
11-24-2008, 05:01 PM
Exactly. Reed Richards has created machines that do virtually anything. His brilliance is nearly infinite, and by this logic, he should be able to create something to fix anything. However, as we all know, that wouldn't work, so it has to serve the story. At this point in time, "there's nothing we can do," because the story dictates that Kitty is lost. I think it's pretty logical.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again;

Me and Todd actually agreeing=We MUST be right.
:thumb:

Slewo.O
11-24-2008, 05:02 PM
Sure he can--he can commandeer some Shi'ar space ship that someone's hiding somewhere and go out there and get the woman he loves.

It's just a strange thing that they've written her off as a 'lost love', and she's just floating out there in space. I'd be pissed if I were her. :)



:) Bravo
There's also the issue of whether he can fly a spaceship in outer space by himself considering how batshit insane things are in there right now. Plus he's also got to worry about the X-Men since they're currently dealing with all the psychos who seem to follow them even to SF.

ImYrWoodbury
11-24-2008, 05:03 PM
One helluva Fastball Special.

Joe Henderson
11-24-2008, 05:03 PM
But they are now just starting to get thing under control again. After Kitty went off into space they had to worry about the baby. then the X-Men were broken up. Collosus, Logan, and Kurt were on their cool down trip. Since then the X-men have been in a reconstitution phase, getting SF thing into gear.

Then SI hit.

It may seem like a long time has gone by for us, but it has been a relatively short time for them mired in one issue after another.

Yeah, Colossus was way too busy during his cool down vacation to try and save Kitty. :)


Exactly. Reed Richards has created machines that do virtually anything. His brilliance is nearly infinite, and by this logic, he should be able to create something to fix anything. However, as we all know, that wouldn't work, so it has to serve the story. At this point in time, "there's nothing we can do," because the story dictates that Kitty is lost. I think it's pretty logical.

EDIT - If Richards can make a cloaking ray that unmasks shape-shifting aliens and lifts the veil of their power to show their true form, than wouldn't he be able to make a device to remove an intangible mutant from a giant bullet? The answer is "not unless the story calls for it." It's not any more or less logical that he can't than if he could, really

Reed Richards went to heaven to get Ben Grimm back, and Colossus won't even go into outer space.

Masculine Todd
11-24-2008, 05:03 PM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again;

Me and Todd actually agreeing=We MUST be right.
:thumb:

I'd snarkily say "I disagree," but then, that wouldn't really but as funny as I think it would, so instead, I'll just comment on how I would say this in a self-deprecating manner and waste a post.

Also, she's in the fucking bullet, let's move on people.

Joe Kalicki
11-24-2008, 05:03 PM
He's already over Kitty.

That blonde chick with the magic sword seems like she'd be a fun time.

Slewo.O
11-24-2008, 05:04 PM
Yeah, Colossus was way too busy during his cool down vacation to try and save Kitty. :)



Reed Richards went to heaven to get Ben Grimm back, and Colossus won't even go into outer space.

That's what bothers me. Ideally Richards would be able to invent a machine to get Kitty out of that bullet but for the purpose of the story though convaulted she has to stay in there.

Slewo.O
11-24-2008, 05:04 PM
I'd snarkily say "I disagree," but then, that wouldn't really but as funny as I think it would, so instead, I'll just comment on how I would say this in a self-deprecating manner and waste a post.

Also, she's in the fucking bullet, let's move on people.

But if we keep talking about it by the 10,000th post she'll come back, don't ya know?

Jason California
11-24-2008, 05:05 PM
Yeah, Colossus was way too busy during his cool down vacation to try and save Kitty. :)
.

No but he needed to get his head straight. He is no good to her if he is no good to himself.

ThisSpaceForRent
11-24-2008, 05:05 PM
cool out, you know she'll return eventually.

The X-Line is pretty solid. Hurray.

The x-line is MUCH better with Whedon out of it.
It was a douche move on his part to do that to a pretty popular character.

iGotKittyPryde
11-24-2008, 05:06 PM
I was thinking about how they could bring her back a while back and came up with a crazily convoluted idea of having the bullet hit the Phalanx wall around the Kree planet in Annihilation Conquest and turns the bullet into part of the Covenant and somehow this allows Kitty to get out and we get a previously unseen story in the background of that and we get her tying in with War of Kings trying to get back home...

Or something like that.

It'd work! Sort of.

Slewo.O
11-24-2008, 05:06 PM
The x-line is MUCH better with Whedon out of it.
It was a douche move on his part to do that to a pretty popular character.

That and the fact he made it pretty damn difficult to tell WHEN it took place. Did they show the effects of M-Day within the book? Since the story's start takes place before then.

Slewo.O
11-24-2008, 05:07 PM
I was thinking about how they could bring her back a while back and came up with a crazily convoluted idea of having the bullet hit the Phalanx wall around the Kree planet in Annihilation Conquest and turns the bullet into part of the Covenant and somehow this allows Kitty to get out and we get a previously unseen story in the background of that and we get her tying in with War of Kings trying to get back home...

Or something like that.

It'd work! Sort of.

It would also make little sense for someone who hasn't been reading Astonishing X-Men and unfair to the X-Men readers who don't read that line.

Though I guess you could say the same about suddenly throwing a character who's been appearing only in X-Men stuff before to suddenly have his own cosmic line cross-over. (Vulcan)

DaveCummings
11-24-2008, 05:07 PM
Sure he can--he can commandeer some Shi'ar space ship that someone's hiding somewhere and go out there and get the woman he loves.

It's just a strange thing that they've written her off as a 'lost love', and she's just floating out there in space. I'd be pissed if I were her. :)



Or better yet, he could seek out a secretive cult of monks who use a giant radio telescope to search for god, overpower them, leave them in a closet with nothing but shoes to eat, while spending weeks using their telescope to seek out Kitty.

Masculine Todd
11-24-2008, 05:07 PM
Reed Richards went to heaven to get Ben Grimm back, and Colossus won't even go into outer space.

...

Richards did this because, well, he's Reed Richards and he can find ways into "heaven" because he's that, uh, brilliant. Colossus is a mutant who's skin turns metal. How would he be able to extract Kitty Pryde if the top minds of the MU tell him there isn't a way to do it?

Or, another way to look at it is, again, Richards should be able to do anything, such as going to heaven, but if he could do that, couldn't he be able to make the MU into an Eden of sorts? He can't, because this wouldn't serve the stories of the MU, and so he can't find a way for Colossus to get his girl, and if he can't and the other minds of the MU can't, then how could he do it? Turning his skin metal and going into outerspace doesn't mean he can do anything to prevent her fate.

And yet another way of looking at it is - she'll come back later. The story calls for her to be away. It's a superhero story. Just roll with it. This isn't any more or less probably than there mere existence of things such as a silver skinned alien who rides a surfboard.

Joe Henderson
11-24-2008, 05:08 PM
No but he needed to get his head straight. He is no good to her if he is no good to himself.

I'm sure that's very comforting to her while she's stuck in space on her bullet trip. :)

Oh, and I'll agree with whoever said--the X-books are the strongest they've been in a long time. This bothers me all the more because it's a strange thing for them to not be dealing with. I'm sure there's a plan, but I feel like they chose a strange way to execute it.

Masculine Todd
11-24-2008, 05:08 PM
The x-line is MUCH better with Whedon out of it.
It was a douche move on his part to do that to a pretty popular character.

I loved Whedon's Astonishing X-Men and it brought in much money to Marvel, so it would appear to be a smart move.

19bernardo87
11-24-2008, 05:09 PM
Nova Corps? Silver Surfer? I mean, there really are a zillion solutions...

Anyway, Kitty is coming back, we all know it. :D

Slewo.O
11-24-2008, 05:09 PM
I'm sure that's very comforting to her while she's stuck in space on her bullet trip. :)

Oh, and I'll agree with whoever said--the X-books are the strongest they've been in a long time. This bothers me all the more because it's a strange thing for them to not be dealing with. I'm sure there's a plan, but I feel like they chose a strange way to execute it.

This may sound like a bizarre possibility but maybe they're saving her return for later so it's a surprise as opposed to letting us know right now? And I say this with the firmest tongue in cheek. :-?

DaveCummings
11-24-2008, 05:09 PM
The x-line is MUCH better with Whedon out of it.
It was a douche move on his part to do that to a pretty popular character.

What are you talking about? As soon as Colossus showed back up in there, you had to know that something bad was going to happen to one of them. It's the X-Men, they have to have something tragic destroying their relationship.

Magnum V.I.
11-24-2008, 05:09 PM
I'm sure that's very comforting to her while she's stuck in space on her bullet trip. :)

Oh, and I'll agree with whoever said--the X-books are the strongest they've been in a long time. This bothers me all the more because it's a strange thing for them to not be dealing with. I'm sure there's a plan, but I feel like they chose a strange way to execute it.

:mistrust: But they are?

They ACKNOWLEDGE it don't they? You don't have to have an active plan of action to be shown to have resolution to a story point. I'd be more upset if they totally ignored it.

Slewo.O
11-24-2008, 05:10 PM
Nova Corps? Silver Surfer? I mean, there really are a zillion solutions...

Anyway, Kitty is coming back, we all know it. :D

Eh they're gonna be a bit busy becoming the Space Reich.

Slewo.O
11-24-2008, 05:10 PM
:mistrust: But they are?

They ACKNOWLEDGE it don't they? You don't have to have an active plan of action to be shown to have resolution to a story point. I'd be more upset if they totally ignored it.

The fact there's a story dealing with Colossus' feelings on it obviously means there's something brewing. Just because he's not strapping himself to a giant slingshot doesn't mean there's nothing going on.

Joe Henderson
11-24-2008, 05:11 PM
...

Richards did this because, well, he's Reed Richards and he can find ways into "heaven" because he's that, uh, brilliant. Colossus is a mutant who's skin turns metal. How would he be able to extract Kitty Pryde if the top minds of the MU tell him there isn't a way to do it?

Or, another way to look at it is, again, Richards should be able to do anything, such as going to heaven, but if he could do that, couldn't he be able to make the MU into an Eden of sorts? He can't, because this wouldn't serve the stories of the MU, and so he can't find a way for Colossus to get his girl, and if he can't and the other minds of the MU can't, then how could he do it? Turning his skin metal and going into outerspace doesn't mean he can do anything to prevent her fate.

And yet another way of looking at it is - she'll come back later. The story calls for her to be away. It's a superhero story. Just roll with it. This isn't any more or less probably than there mere existence of things such as a silver skinned alien who rides a surfboard.

Exactly, it's a superhero story. And superhero stories are about superheroes overcome incredible odds in the name of love, heroism, etc.

And the fact that it's Colossus is what makes it so fascinating--how does a guy who usually only punches things figure out how to save the woman he loves in outer space? From a writer's perspective, that's a fantastic corner to be stuck in. What if everyone tells you you can't save her? What if you don't even know how to pilot a space ship? What if the only thing you have going for you is a steely determination to save Kitty Pryde?

That's the stuff good comics are made of.

Joe Henderson
11-24-2008, 05:12 PM
:mistrust: But they are?

They ACKNOWLEDGE it don't they? You don't have to have an active plan of action to be shown to have resolution to a story point. I'd be more upset if they totally ignored it.

As far as I know, there has been absolutely no sense of them actively trying to get Kitty back except for one throwaway line in the Giant Size Astonishing special. Everything else has been Colossus dealing with the loss of a loved one. But if I missed a story, please let me know.

Slewo.O
11-24-2008, 05:13 PM
Exactly, it's a superhero story. And superhero stories are about superheroes overcome incredible odds in the name of love, heroism, etc.

And the fact that it's Colossus is what makes it so fascinating--how does a guy who usually only punches things figure out how to save the woman he loves in outer space? From a writer's perspective, that's a fantastic corner to be stuck in. What if everyone tells you you can't save her? What if you don't even know how to pilot a space ship? What if the only thing you have going for you is a steely determination to save Kitty Pryde?

That's the stuff good comics are made of.

Thing is he's not a science genius, if he's been told there's no way to save her by guys like Richards or Beast then there's nothing he can do.

There's not much to write about he's a farmboy who can turn into metal not a superbrain.

Magnum V.I.
11-24-2008, 05:14 PM
Exactly, it's a superhero story. And superhero stories are about superheroes overcome incredible odds in the name of love, heroism, etc.

And the fact that it's Colossus is what makes it so fascinating--how does a guy who usually only punches things figure out how to save the woman he loves in outer space? From a writer's perspective, that's a fantastic corner to be stuck in. What if everyone tells you you can't save her? What if you don't even know how to pilot a space ship? What if the only thing you have going for you is a steely determination to save Kitty Pryde?

That's the stuff good comics are made of.

Maybe it's a case of too many Cooks in the story, not enough chefs? It seems like Fraction and Bru want to focus on other characters, and the core of the team more, but still acknowledge that it happened. I could see a One-Shot justifying it and in fact they did just have a one shot talking about this. Well, one of the Manifest destiny Shorts.

Dan-C
11-24-2008, 05:14 PM
Look, what you are failing to realize here is the physical structure of the Marvel Universe.

You may think that it's never ending and similar in nature to our own universe, while in reality it more closely resembles the Pac-Man universe.

So basically Kitty is going to keep going straight until she reaches the end, then she's going to be sent back to the other side of the universe. And once she comes around again, the X-Men will grab her. It that simple. Just a matter of time.


Any day now...

Dreaded Anomaly
11-24-2008, 05:17 PM
He's already over Kitty.

That blonde chick with the magic sword seems like she'd be a fun time.

And also his sister. :sick:

Masculine Todd
11-24-2008, 05:18 PM
Exactly, it's a superhero story. And superhero stories are about superheroes overcome incredible odds in the name of love, heroism, etc.

Also in superhero stories - loss and defeat. Superhero stories are still dramas. In all drama comes tragedy. This is a fleeting tragedy.


And the fact that it's Colossus is what makes it so fascinating--how does a guy who usually only punches things figure out how to save the woman he loves in outer space? From a writer's perspective, that's a fantastic corner to be stuck in. What if everyone tells you you can't save her? What if you don't even know how to pilot a space ship? What if the only thing you have going for you is a steely determination to save Kitty Pryde?

That's the stuff good comics are made of.

You knwo what would really be illogical? A metal guy jettisoning into space after Mr. I Went to Heaven tells him it's hopeless, amirite?

Look, people die and people get lost in superhero comics. It happens. It's accepted. Kitty will find a way back, but at the moment, for the sake of the story, it has to be accepted that she's gone. The issue has been dealt with and accepted by the characters in the story. The matter will invariably be resolved, but not at the time.

When Jean Gray/Phoenix died the first time, would you have complained because Scott didn't do everything to get her back? What about her recent death, despite the fact that he knew she continually comes back and that there's mystical powered men such as Doctor Strange or The Hand that could revive her? Why should he accept that she's gone, merely because death has struck her? Everyone continually comes back and can be revived, so shouldn't he defy the natural order of life and do something to get her back, just like you propose Colossus rocket to space and try to get Kitty back? The answer is "no," because the writers want to go in a different direction, and so Jean needs to be dead and Kitty needs to be trapped in a bullet.

Magnum V.I.
11-24-2008, 05:20 PM
As far as I know, there has been absolutely no sense of them actively trying to get Kitty back except for one throwaway line in the Giant Size Astonishing special. Everything else has been Colossus dealing with the loss of a loved one. But if I missed a story, please let me know.

The last line of the latest Manifest Destiny (#3) has a little girl walk up to Peter and go "Will you help me rescue Kitty?". Peter looks shocked and realizes she means her cat, but when she asks again, Peter says something to the effect of "I would love to rescue Kitty."

So maybe they WILL deal with it in another Manifest Destiny Story.

Joe Henderson
11-24-2008, 05:25 PM
Maybe it's a case of too many Cooks in the story, not enough chefs? It seems like Fraction and Bru want to focus on other characters, and the core of the team more, but still acknowledge that it happened. I could see a One-Shot justifying it and in fact they did just have a one shot talking about this. Well, one of the Manifest destiny Shorts.

Yeah, I was really surprised when they didn't take the opportunity to do a short 8 pager showing Colossus trying to do something, but continually failing, and finally resigning himself. Simple, easy, and potentially very interesting.


Also in superhero stories - loss and defeat. Superhero stories are still dramas. In all drama comes tragedy. This is a fleeting tragedy.



You knwo what would really be illogical? A metal guy jettisoning into space after Mr. I Went to Heaven tells him it's hopeless, amirite?

Look, people die and people get lost in superhero comics. It happens. It's accepted. Kitty will find a way back, but at the moment, for the sake of the story, it has to be accepted that she's gone. The issue has been dealt with and accepted by the characters in the story. The matter will invariably be resolved, but not at the time.

When Jean Gray/Phoenix died the first time, would you have complained because Scott didn't do everything to get her back? What about her recent death, despite the fact that he knew she continually comes back and that there's mystical powered men such as Doctor Strange or The Hand that could revive her? Why should he accept that she's gone, merely because death has struck her? Everyone continually comes back and can be revived, so shouldn't he defy the natural order of life and do something to get her back, just like you propose Colossus rocket to space and try to get Kitty back? The answer is "no," because the writers want to go in a different direction, and so Jean needs to be dead and Kitty needs to be trapped in a bullet.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Where I see story potential, you see a story you're perfectly happy with.

Masculine Todd
11-24-2008, 05:28 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree. Where I see story potential, you see a story you're perfectly happy with.

You completely missed the point.

There is potential...in the future. However, the writers have decided that it's not the case currently, and so it will be explored later, as characters always come back. This won't be Kitty's status quo forever, and therefor, she'll be rescued or returned at some other point. For the time being, the handlers of the X-Universe are telling other stories that require her to be gone.

Joe Henderson
11-24-2008, 05:32 PM
You completely missed the point.

There is potential...in the future. However, the writers dictate that it's not the case currently, and so it will be explored later, as characters always come back. This won't be Kitty's status quo forever, and therefor, she'll be rescued or returned at some other point. For the time being, the handlers of the X-Universe are telling other stories that require her to be gone.

Actually, you missed the point--and by the way, I'd appreciate it if you'd drop the condescension.

I'm fully aware that Kitty will come back at some point. I'm not even arguing that Kitty has to come back now. My argument is just that I don't buy Peter giving up on saving her so easily, and all his dealing with her loss rings empty because I feel like he should fight as hard as he can to save her, and THEN deal with his grief. I feel like they skipped a step on his character development.

Magnum V.I.
11-24-2008, 05:34 PM
Actually, you missed the point--and by the way, I'd appreciate it if you'd drop the condescension.

I'm fully aware that Kitty will come back at some point. I'm not even arguing that Kitty has to come back now. My argument is just that I don't buy Peter giving up on saving her so easily, and all his dealing with her loss rings empty because I feel like he should fight as hard as he can to save her, and THEN deal with his grief. I feel like they skipped a step on his character development.

I think the same thing could be said about Kitty! She didn't grief at all! She just dumped his ashes out. Never even asked or looked for a way to save him. And then after that she was running for Mayor of Chicago and stuff!

Joe Henderson
11-24-2008, 05:36 PM
I think the same thing could be said about Kitty! She didn't grief at all! She just dumped his ashes out. Never even asked or looked for a way to save him. And then after that she was running for Mayor of Chicago and stuff!

If I'd been reading the book then, I probably would have complained as well. :)

I know it's the nature of monthly storytelling that these things get lost and never picked up; it's no big deal. I just think it's such a great story waiting to be told (and who knows, there's a good chance they already have plans to do so).

Joe Henderson
11-24-2008, 05:38 PM
By the way, my guess is that, since Astonishing schedule was way late and Brubaker needed to write his next arc, they just decided to skip this beat and focus on something they could actually control--namely, the next step, grief. Considering the scheduling bind they were in, it makes complete sense. I just feel like, since they're now in control of the main book, there's a way to have your cake and eat it too.

ImYrWoodbury
11-24-2008, 05:39 PM
Anyone know how much time has passed between Giant Sized Astonishing X-Men and right...now? Maybe they haven't been waiting around that long.

Magnum V.I.
11-24-2008, 05:39 PM
If I'd been reading the book then, I probably would have complained as well. :)

I know it's the nature of monthly storytelling that these things get lost and never picked up; it's no big deal. I just think it's such a great story waiting to be told (and who knows, there's a good chance they already have plans to do so).

They wrote Kitty out of X-Men after he died.

We get this really cool issue where Kitty is remembering him. And then she dumps out his ashes in Russia. And at the end, Xavier deletes everything about Kitty from the X-Men database because she finally quit.

Masculine Todd
11-24-2008, 05:41 PM
Actually, you missed the point--and by the way, I'd appreciate it if you'd drop the condescension.

I'm fully aware that Kitty will come back at some point. I'm not even arguing that Kitty has to come back now. My argument is just that I don't buy Peter giving up on saving her so easily, and all his dealing with her loss rings empty because I feel like he should fight as hard as he can to save her, and THEN deal with his grief. I feel like they skipped a step on his character development.

There's no condescension there. I still think you missed the point.

What could he do? What other step could he take? Fly aimlessly into space, even after the top minds told him it was impossible? When the guy who found a way to heaven told you it was impossible?

Joe Henderson
11-24-2008, 05:45 PM
There's no condescension there. I still think you missed the point.

What could he do? What other step could he take? Fly aimlessly into space?

No...you fly towards the bullet. And try to figure out a way to save her. Or, after you've gone all that way for nothing...at least you're there with her when she starves to death. Or you figure out a way to destroy it as a mercy kill.

There's a lot you can do. It's a story of a simple man against impossible odds. I'm a little perplexed as to why you're so negative about it.

nick maynard
11-24-2008, 05:46 PM
Actually, you missed the point--and by the way, I'd appreciate it if you'd drop the condescension.

I'm fully aware that Kitty will come back at some point. I'm not even arguing that Kitty has to come back now. My argument is just that I don't buy Peter giving up on saving her so easily, and all his dealing with her loss rings empty because I feel like he should fight as hard as he can to save her, and THEN deal with his grief. I feel like they skipped a step on his character development.
i'm totally on your side with this.

kitty is out there, alive, and the x-men definitely have the means to go get her. they are just choosing not to. it makes no sense.

whedon (or bru/frac) could definitely have addressed this. and by that i mean, they could have done something to explain why colossus should give up hope so easily. "because she's far away" is NOT a good enough reason to not go find her. they could have made up a better one.

ImYrWoodbury
11-24-2008, 05:47 PM
No...you fly towards the bullet. And try to figure out a way to save her. Or, after you've gone all that way for nothing...at least you're there with her when she starves to death. Or you figure out a way to destroy it as a mercy kill.

There's a lot you can do. It's a story of a simple man against impossible odds. I'm a little perplexed as to why you're so negative about it.

Wouldn't she have starved to death already by now? Or ran out of oxygen?

nick maynard
11-24-2008, 05:48 PM
There's no condescension there. I still think you missed the point.

What could he do? What other step could he take? Fly aimlessly into space, even after the top minds told him it was impossible? When the guy who found a way to heaven told you it was impossible?
i dont have the best memory. what was the reason they gave for it being "impossible"?

Joe Henderson
11-24-2008, 05:49 PM
Wouldn't she have starved to death already by now? Or ran out of oxygen?

Yeah, I'm more referencing a story they COULD have told earlier in that case.


i'm totally on your side with this.

kitty is out there, alive, and the x-men definitely have the means to go get her. they are just choosing not to. it makes no sense.

whedon (or bru/frac) could definitely have addressed this. and by that i mean, they could have done something to explain why colossus should give up hope so easily. "because she's far away" is NOT a good enough reason to not go find her. they could have made up a better one.

Dear God, thank you. I've started to feel like I'm completely alone on this. :)

Sir Gibby
11-24-2008, 05:51 PM
I think Reed hasn't gotten on this because his wife is either a green alien chick (I hope at least a chick!), or about to die, or he's meeting up with an old sweetheart, or doing the Silly-puddy shuffle under Skrull supervision...I know Marvel continuity is pretty shoddy but still. The dude is pulling a Wolverine right now.

I enjoyed the Whedon run. No amazing mind-numbling complicated complex plots but the dialogue was great, the characters were used well, hell if they could continue Cyclops having a pair that would be awesome.

Masculine Todd
11-24-2008, 05:51 PM
I know it's the nature of monthly storytelling that these things get lost and never picked up; it's no big deal. I just think it's such a great story waiting to be told (and who knows, there's a good chance they already have plans to do so).

Panel 1:

Reed is popping and locking in a way only a stretchy man could while talking to Peter Rasputin, who's standing proud and stoic, just as a commie should!

Reed Richards -- Pete, look, we can't save her. I mean, I went to heaven and fucked the virgin Mary. I invented a gun that actually can increase penis size, and I'm telling you, you can't save her. Okay. There's nothing we can do.

Panel 2:

Battling his amazement at Richards' ability to serve any punk who ever try to challenge his mad hot fire, he quickly becomes indignant and angry.

Peter Rasputin -- Oh yeah?! Well I have to go into space. I just have to. I have to try and get her back. I mean, maybe if I punch the bullet really hard, it will crack or something. Yeah, that sounds about right, despite the fact you're sitting here telling me it can't happen. I mean, what do you know?! I turn into metal.

Panel 3:

Rocket ship takes off into space

Panel 4:

Rocket ship is flying through space, Black Sabbath's "Iron Man" is booming from the speakers in the ship. Petey is not without a sense of humor.

Panel 5:

Pete's manning the rocket ship

Internal Monologue box (Peter Rasputin) - I'm sad. This sucks, but I gotta try. [insert some random Russian slang here to convey to the audience he's ethnic].

Panel 6:

Pete's rocket catches up to the bullet.

Panel 7:

Pete exits the shit and floats over to the bullet

Panel 8:

Pete punches the bullet as hard as he can, to no avail

Panel 9:

Pete looks disillusioned.

Peter Rasputin -- Well, that sucks. I'm still sad, but at least I tried to do what the guy who brained his way into fucking heaven said I couldn't do.

I'ma tell this bad boy.

ImYrWoodbury
11-24-2008, 05:52 PM
I think the main problem was that the Whedon/Cassedy run reads better as a self-contained story. I haven't been reading any of the other X books, do they reference Astonishing at all?

Masculine Todd
11-24-2008, 05:55 PM
No...you fly towards the bullet. And try to figure out a way to save her. Or, after you've gone all that way for nothing...at least you're there with her when she starves to death. Or you figure out a way to destroy it as a mercy kill.

There's a lot you can do. It's a story of a simple man against impossible odds. I'm a little perplexed as to why you're so negative about it.

I'm not negative about it. I just find it needless. You don't. That's fine. I just find it a little silly to get so up-in-arms about Colossus not trying to go to space to do something that "all the best minds" say is impossible. That's all. I disagree.

Slewo.O
11-24-2008, 05:55 PM
I think the main problem was that the Whedon/Cassedy run reads better as a self-contained story. I haven't been reading any of the other X books, do they reference Astonishing at all?

Yep a bunch of times actually considering some of the big changes like Kitty's being trapped in the bullet.

Joe Henderson
11-24-2008, 05:58 PM
Panel 1:

Reed is popping and locking in a way only a stretchy man could while talking to Peter Rasputin, who's standing proud and stoic, just as a commie should!

Reed Richards -- Pete, look, we can't save her. I mean, I went to heaven and fucked the virgin Mary. I invented a gun that actually can increase penis size, and I'm telling you, you can't save her. Okay. There's nothing we can do.

Panel 2:

Battling his amazement at Richards' ability to serve any punk who ever try to challenge his mad hot fire, he quickly becomes indignant and angry.

Peter Rasputin -- Oh yeah?! Well I have to go into space. I just have to. I have to try and get her back. I mean, maybe if I punch the bullet really hard, it will crack or something. Yeah, that sounds about right, despite the fact you're sitting here telling me it can't happen. I mean, what do you know?! I turn into metal.

Panel 3:

Rocket ship takes off into space

Panel 4:

Rocket ship is flying through space, Black Sabbath's "Iron Man" is booming from the speakers in the ship. Petey is not without a sense of humor.

Panel 5:

Pete's manning the rocket ship

Internal Monologue box (Peter Rasputin) - I'm sad. This sucks, but I gotta try. [insert some random Russian slang here to convey to the audience he's ethnic].

Panel 6:

Pete's rocket catches up to the bullet.

Panel 7:

Pete exits the shit and floats over to the bullet

Panel 8:

Pete punches the bullet as hard as he can, to no avail

Panel 9:

Pete looks disillusioned.

Peter Rasputin -- Well, that sucks. I'm still sad, but at least I tried to do what the guy who brained his way into fucking heaven said I couldn't do.

I'ma tell this bad boy.

My turn! :)

Panel 1:

Reed is popping and locking in a way only a stretchy man could while talking to Peter Rasputin, who's standing proud and stoic, just as a commie should!

Reed Richards -- Pete, look, we can't save her. I mean, I went to heaven and fucked the virgin Mary. I invented a gun that actually can increase penis size, and I'm telling you, you can't save her. Okay. There's nothing we can do.

Panel 2:

Battling his amazement at Richards' ability to serve any punk who ever try to challenge his mad hot fire, he quickly becomes indignant and angry.

Peter Rasputin -- Oh yeah?! Well I have to go into space. I just have to. I have to try and get her back. I mean, maybe if I punch the bullet really hard, it will crack or something. Yeah, that sounds about right, despite the fact you're sitting here telling me it can't happen. I mean, what do you know?! I turn into metal.

Panel 3:

Rocket ship takes off into space

Panel 4:

Rocket ship is flying through space, Black Sabbath's "Iron Man" is booming from the speakers in the ship. Petey is not without a sense of humor.

Panel 5:

Pete's manning the rocket ship

Internal Monologue box (Peter Rasputin) - I'm sad. This sucks, but I gotta try. [insert some random Russian slang here to convey to the audience he's ethnic].

Panel 6:

Pete's rocket catches up to the bullet. It docks on the bullet via a really cool suction cup.

Panel 7:

Pete exits the ship and lands on the bullet.

Panel 8:

Pete punches the bullet as hard as he can, to no avail

Panel 9:

Pete looks disillusioned. He breaks down, crying.

Panel 10:

A hand reaches out from the bullet. Kitty's hand. Pete's face lights up. He cradles it against his chest.

PETE: Katya!

Panel 11:

He pulls Kitty part of the way out...but she's been changed by the bullet. Bonded to it, her skin metallic. She looks like she's dying.

KITTY: I was...wondering...when you'd show up. Took long enough.

PETE: I was busy hanging out with Wolverine and Nightcrawler fighting bad guys in Russia. I was also depressed.

KITTY: Huh. I figured you died or--

PETE: Nope. Just busy drinking in my home town.

Panel 12:

Kitty's annoyed, but shakes it off. There are more important things.

KITTY: That's not important. Pete, if you pull me out of this thing...I'll die. I'm bonded to it now in some strange, quasi-scientific way.

PETE: Then what do I do?

KITTY: I don't want to live like this. Pull, Piotr.

Off Pete--TORN.

TO BE CONTINUED!!

ImYrWoodbury
11-24-2008, 06:10 PM
Why would Reed need to invent a penis-enhancing ray gun? He is, after all, Mr. Fantastic.

Masculine Todd
11-24-2008, 06:45 PM
No...you fly towards the bullet. And try to figure out a way to save her. Or, after you've gone all that way for nothing...at least you're there with her when she starves to death. Or you figure out a way to destroy it as a mercy kill.

There's a lot you can do. It's a story of a simple man against impossible odds. I'm a little perplexed as to why you're so negative about it.


My turn! :)

Panel 1:

Reed is popping and locking in a way only a stretchy man could while talking to Peter Rasputin, who's standing proud and stoic, just as a commie should!

Reed Richards -- Pete, look, we can't save her. I mean, I went to heaven and fucked the virgin Mary. I invented a gun that actually can increase penis size, and I'm telling you, you can't save her. Okay. There's nothing we can do.

Panel 2:

Battling his amazement at Richards' ability to serve any punk who ever try to challenge his mad hot fire, he quickly becomes indignant and angry.

Peter Rasputin -- Oh yeah?! Well I have to go into space. I just have to. I have to try and get her back. I mean, maybe if I punch the bullet really hard, it will crack or something. Yeah, that sounds about right, despite the fact you're sitting here telling me it can't happen. I mean, what do you know?! I turn into metal.

Panel 3:

Rocket ship takes off into space

Panel 4:

Rocket ship is flying through space, Black Sabbath's "Iron Man" is booming from the speakers in the ship. Petey is not without a sense of humor.

Panel 5:

Pete's manning the rocket ship

Internal Monologue box (Peter Rasputin) - I'm sad. This sucks, but I gotta try. [insert some random Russian slang here to convey to the audience he's ethnic].

Panel 6:

Pete's rocket catches up to the bullet. It docks on the bullet via a really cool suction cup.

Panel 7:

Pete exits the ship and lands on the bullet.

Panel 8:

Pete punches the bullet as hard as he can, to no avail

Panel 9:

Pete looks disillusioned. He breaks down, crying.

Panel 10:

A hand reaches out from the bullet. Kitty's hand. Pete's face lights up. He cradles it against his chest.

PETE: Katya!

Panel 11:

He pulls Kitty part of the way out...but she's been changed by the bullet. Bonded to it, her skin metallic. She looks like she's dying.

KITTY: I was...wondering...when you'd show up. Took long enough.

PETE: I was busy hanging out with Wolverine and Nightcrawler fighting bad guys in Russia. I was also depressed.

KITTY: Huh. I figured you died or--

PETE: Nope. Just busy drinking in my home town.

Panel 12:

Kitty's annoyed, but shakes it off. There are more important things.

KITTY: That's not important. Pete, if you pull me out of this thing...I'll die. I'm bonded to it now in some strange, quasi-scientific way.

PETE: Then what do I do?

KITTY: I don't want to live like this. Pull, Piotr.

Off Pete--TORN.

TO BE CONTINUED!!

Your lack of Reed Richards break dancing is disconcerting.

Joe Henderson
11-26-2008, 01:10 PM
Now THIS is funny...this is exactly what I was talking about...just about Kitty, not Illyana:

http://creative.myspacecdn.com/groups/_mcb/mycupojoe/week034/XINFRNS001_int_Page_01.jpg

http://creative.myspacecdn.com/groups/_mcb/mycupojoe/week034/XINFRNS001_int_Page_02.jpg

Heh.