Brian Azzarello's 'Joker'

[Mattman]

Book of the fucking year.

If you buy one graphic novel this year, you must make it this one. It out Killing Jokes The Killing Joke. There is a new best Joker-story folks. It's that fucking good.

[Maestro]

I thought as much. Might have made for an interesting review thread

[Mattman]

I thought as much. Might have made for an interesting review thread
What is this thread? Chopped liver?

It comes out today folks. Anyone planning on getting their weekly fix at the shop needs to pick this baby up. And when you're done come to this thread and talk about it.

I'll just throw out this little morsel - it makes Killer Croc a plausible and very scary character. And I don't want to go into what it does for Harlequin. And as far as the title character is concerned, it basically takes what Heath Ledger started in DK and expands on it. It truly is the ultimate Joker story.

[Maestro]

I'll be sure to buy it. Stupid question though, does Batman actually appear in this book?

[danlomb]

God I hope I don't miss out on a copy. Lord knows when they'll get around to pumping out another printing.

[Mattman]

Stupid question though, does Batman actually appear in this book?
Of course --- in a way you'll have to read the book to see.

[Garth]

What is this thread? Chopped liver?


http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=154218&highlight=joker

Oh snap.

[bachman]

http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=154218&highlight=joker

Oh snap.

:heart:

[EasyE726]

Just picked this up..great read. Really enjoyed it although originally i thought maybe..

Frost was telling the story to Batman

[Artie Pink]

Loved it! It really is the sequel to A Dark Knight that we'll never get.

[VonDoom]

I found it interesting, but at the same time Azzarello makes reader work a lot to understand the story, as he always does. I'll need to read it a few more times, methinks.

The Batman sequence at the end is awesome, though.

[Ashwin Pande]

Read it tonight. Amazing comic. I wish it had a consistent inker though. There's a very noticeable difference between Bermejo's inks and Mick Gray's inks. I don't understand why they had to rush this since it's a graphic novel. Anyway, apart from that gripe I thought it was really good. I can't even begin to understand how Azzarello wrote the Joker. It was amazing to watch the character.

[Mattman]

I found it interesting, but at the same time Azzarello makes reader work a lot to understand the story, as he always does. I'll need to read it a few more times, methinks.

The Batman sequence at the end is awesome, though.
That was cool.

Although the part that beat it hands down...
The skinning in the strip-club. Fucking brutal!

[NeverWanderer]

I began to order this from Instock last night, and by the time I was done paying, Arkham Asylum, The Man Who Laughs, and Batman: Turning Points had somehow made it into the order as well.

I, of course, blame society.

[Ashwin Pande]

That was cool.

Although the part that beat it hands down...
The skinning in the strip-club. Fucking brutal!

One thing that pissed me off was that DC wouldn't show

Joker giving Arkham Asylum the finger and Harley Quinn's tits. I think for this kind of story it takes away from the story to keep that stuff out of it simply because Batman is in it. Still I guess I should be grateful that they published a story that is at least pushing it further than it has before.

[Mattman]

One thing that pissed me off was that DC wouldn't show

Joker giving Arkham Asylum the finger and Harley Quinn's tits. I think for this kind of story it takes away from the story to keep that stuff out of it simply because Batman is in it. Still I guess I should be grateful that they published a story that is at least pushing it further than it has before.
I think that was a choice made by Lee Bermejo. Here's a link to the interview. (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/100829-Bermejo-Joker.html)

[Ashwin Pande]

I think that was a choice made by Lee Bermejo. Here's a link to the interview. (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/100829-Bermejo-Joker.html)

Thanks for that!

Yeah I can see what they were going for. I guess it makes sense. Still I think it probably would have worked better if they actually had gone all the way instead of playing it subtle since there's very little subtlety in some of the other violent and sexual scenes. It also explains the difference between Bermejo's and Gray's inking styles was done on purpose but I disagree with that too. I can see what they were trying to achieve with that but I dunno... it came off as distracting to me. I preferred Bermejo's inks to Grays in this book and wish the whole book was like that instead of the occasional cooler moments. Anyway... that's my opinion. It's still a fantastic book.

[Ryan Elliott]

My shop ran out of copies. :cry:

[John Drake]

Read it tonight. Amazing comic. I wish it had a consistent inker though. There's a very noticeable difference between Bermejo's inks and Mick Gray's inks. I don't understand why they had to rush this since it's a graphic novel. Anyway, apart from that gripe I thought it was really good. I can't even begin to understand how Azzarello wrote the Joker. It was amazing to watch the character.

Think Bermejo made that choice.

[VonDoom]

That was cool.

Although the part that beat it hands down...
The skinning in the strip-club. Fucking brutal!

That WAS harsh.

[Maestro]

That was cool.

Although the part that beat it hands down...
The skinning in the strip-club. Fucking brutal!

I don't get how that happened so quickly.

[Ashwin Pande]

The worst part in the book was

Joker raping Jonny Frost's wife in retalliation for finding out he was approached by Two Face. Fuck... that was horrible.

[Gavin]

My shop ran out of copies. :cry:

Wow. I'm surprised you didn't have it pre-ordered.

[Ryan Elliott]

Wow. I'm surprised you didn't have it pre-ordered.


My shop is usually really good about having enough of things like this.


I didn't think I had to or I would have. :cry:

[EasyE726]

Wow. I'm surprised you didn't have it pre-ordered.

I'm surprised he didn't drive to the LCS the next town over for it.

[Ryan Elliott]

I'm surprised he didn't drive to the LCS the next town over for it.


Gas is cheap, but it's not THAT cheap, arch-nemesis.


But I bought the Movie Masters movie-detail Bat-Pod today, to cope.

[Mattman]

I don't get how that happened so quickly.
You've obviously never skinned someone alive before.:twisted:

[Howlett]

Just finished it. Bloody good stuff. I agree with YPJ, this really felt like the sequel to Dark Knight we'll never get now that Heath Ledger has died.

[Ryan Elliott]

I seriously can't believe I haven't looked at any spoilers yet...


I'm proud of myself.

[Ashwin Pande]

Just finished it. Bloody good stuff. I agree with YPJ, this really felt like the sequel to Dark Knight we'll never get now that Heath Ledger has died.

It's scary how much the movie Joker and this Joker are alike in personality and look considering Azz had no idea what they were going to do in the movie when he wrote this and Bermejo didn't even have Ledger in mind while drawing this. Fucking amazing synchronicity.

[Ashwin Pande]

Heh. Unrelated to the comic. Synchronicity is a word I learnt from comics. I first read the word in the Grant Morrison JLA comic where Batman uses it. I looked it up in the dictionary after reading the issue and then went on to read some bits and pieces on Jungian archetypes and other cool ideas of his because of it.

See... you can learn cool shit from comics, kids!

[Howlett]

It's scary how much the movie Joker and this Joker are alike in personality and look considering Azz had no idea what they were going to do in the movie when he wrote this and Bermejo didn't even have Ledger in mind while drawing this. Fucking amazing synchronicity.
That is pretty fucking cool.

[SteveZegers]

I read my friends copy. (Didn't want to buy it, not really my cup of tea) I was really impressed by the whole thing. The art was just stunning.

[Mattman]

I seriously can't believe I haven't looked at any spoilers yet...

I'm proud of myself.
And I'm seriously surprised I haven't accidentally let any drop without hiding them.

[Chinaski]

I seriously can't believe I haven't looked at any spoilers yet...


I'm proud of myself.


And I'm seriously surprised I haven't accidentally let any drop without hiding them.



I will be getting this book tomorrow in my mailing from DCBS, and I cannot wait. The thing was 50% off pre order, and seeing all the positive buzz is really getting me pumped for it. I havent read one spoiler and its going to stay that way. I cant believe I got this for like 10 bucks, that makes it even sweeter

[Mattman]

I cant believe I got this for like 10 bucks, that makes it even sweeter
That's quite the bargain you found there. I bought it at the shop I work at with my 25% discount so for me it came out to a little over twelve bucks.

[tonym]

This was excellent. I noticed CBR gave it a review and it wasn't a good one. I only saw the final rating he gave it; I'm not sure what else they chose to say about it.

I loved it, the differences in inking were a bit weird, but it worked well in some parts. Definitely should be considered a sequel to the Dark Knight. It's a good book to recommend to some new Batman fans.

[Evan the Shaggy]

One thing I didn't get:

The picture of the bank president's daughter.

[Ashwin Pande]

One thing I didn't get:

The picture of the bank president's daughter.

He showed the picture of the Bank President's daughter to get the guy to give him the money. I guess it meant the Joker either had the daughter stashed somewhere or at least made the guy think he had his daughter stashed somewhere.

[Mattman]

He showed the picture of the Bank President's daughter to get the guy to give him the money. I guess it meant the Joker either had the daughter stashed somewhere or at least made the guy think he had his daughter stashed somewhere.
That's one thing I kind of didn't get either. I get that he used to picture to somehow get the money but why was there blood on the picture?

[Ashwin Pande]

That's one thing I kind of didn't get either. I get that he used to picture to somehow get the money but why was there blood on the picture?

I assumed it was the bank president's blood or someone else's who the Joker fucked up while he was in there. When he comes out of the bank he's got a bloody knife with him.

[Ryan Elliott]

Thanks to everybody for hiding the spoilers.


It's nice to be able to read everyone's reactions to this book and not have to worry about getting spoiled.

[Ashwin Pande]

Thanks to everybody for hiding the spoilers.


It's nice to be able to read everyone's reactions to this book and not have to worry about getting spoiled.

Ah don't worry about it. We got no problems talking about the page where The Punisher and Jughead join Joker's gang and where Commissioner Gordon beats a strung out on cocaine Ralph Macchio to death with his nightstick.


Oh fuck!

[Ryan Elliott]

Ah don't worry about it. We got no problems talking about the page where The Punisher and Jughead join Joker's gang and where Commissioner Gordon beats a strung out on cocaine Ralph Macchio to death with his nightstick.


Oh fuck!


That's so awesome I don't even care that you spoiled it.











































































































































You bastard.

[mayhemspider]

That's one thing I kind of didn't get either. I get that he used to picture to somehow get the money but why was there blood on the picture?

Simplest answer? The Joker saw the picture on the Bank President's Desk, grabbed it, expressed no less than a creepy amount of interest in the girl, and pleaded with the president to fuck the heist up for him somehow. Thus lubricating the wheels of commerce. Unfortunately, the president was nothing if not acomidating, and the joker got what he wanted, but not what he needed. Ho-hum. Perhaps next heist. That was my interpretation anyhow.

[Garth]

Thanks to everybody for hiding the spoilers.


It's nice to be able to read everyone's reactions to this book and not have to worry about getting spoiled.

I agree, still waiting on my DCBS shipment. But it is great to read that you guys are loving it so much.

[Ryan Elliott]

Just finished reading it.

Holy face-punch, Batman.


That was amazing.

[Mattman]

Just finished reading it.

Holy face-punch, Batman.


That was amazing.
Where would you put it on the pantheon of great Joker stories? I just finished reading it a second time and I have to say I like it better than Killing Joke. Yeah, I'm serious.

[MAK15]

Thanks to everybody for hiding the spoilers.


It's nice to be able to read everyone's reactions to this book and not have to worry about getting spoiled.

I hear that.

[Ryan Elliott]

Where would you put it on the pantheon of great Joker stories? I just finished reading it a second time and I have to say I like it better than Killing Joke. Yeah, I'm serious.


Very tough call.


But for me, personally, I'd rank it above Killing Joke. Definitely. Killing Joker is an amazing story as well, but I don't like a sympathetic Joker. I want to like him, and hate him, and then hate myself for liking him.


Not to mention the fact that this Joker was very much a continuation of Heath Ledger's Joker. Which is astounding, because both Azzarello and Bermejo both said that they had no idea how the filmmakers were going to do the Joker in the movie.

It's a very realistic, brutal Joker. No Venom, gas, or gags. Just guns, knives, and blood.

Everything about this book hit every mark it was trying to hit for me. Just an amazing work.

And yes, I would definitely rank it as one of if not THE greatest Joker story ever. Ever.

[Ryan Elliott]

One thing I didn't get though.


Why did Joker call Penguin Abner?

[what about bob?]

One thing I didn't get though.


Why did Joker call Penguin Abner?

i think I read somewhere that Azzarelo said it was to demeem penguin in some way, kind of like putting him down just to put him down from the joker.

[Ryan Elliott]

i think I read somewhere that Azzarelo said it was to demeem penguin in some way, kind of like putting him down just to put him down from the joker.


Yeah, I just looked it up on Google and saw about the same explanation.


Why Abner though? I can't figure it out.

[Mattman]

Yeah, I just looked it up on Google and saw about the same explanation.


Why Abner though? I can't figure it out.
Because it's just as lame a name as Oswald. I wouldn't be surprised if the Joker comes up with a new lame name for the dude every time he meets up with him.

[Ryan Elliott]

Because it's just as lame a name as Oswald. I wouldn't be surprised if the Joker comes up with a new lame name for the dude every time he meets up with him.


...

I like that.

Oh, and my answer to your question is on the last page.

[Mattman]

...I like that.
Oh, and my answer to your question is on the last page.
I saw it. And my feelings on the book are pretty much on par with yours. Azzarello really hit it out of the park this time didn't he? And you could feel the ghost of Heath on every page. I wonder what he felt when he saw DK.

[Ryan Elliott]

I saw it. And my feelings on the book are pretty much on par with yours. Azzarello really hit it out of the park this time didn't he? And you could feel the ghost of Heath on every page. I wonder what he felt when he saw DK.


It'd be very interesting to hear his thoughts.

[VonDoom]

Because it's just as lame a name as Oswald. I wouldn't be surprised if the Joker comes up with a new lame name for the dude every time he meets up with him.

So, the Joker is the Doctor Cox of the DCU. Interesting.

[artimoff]

It was prety good, but ultimatly unsatisfying in the end. I like Killing Joke quite a bit more.

[KingMob]

After all the hype I heard about this book I read it last night and had a lukewarm reaction to it. I didnt feel that it was anything terribly original after seeing the last batman movie.

[Ashwin Pande]

After all the hype I heard about this book I read it last night and had a lukewarm reaction to it. I didnt feel that it was anything terribly original after seeing the last batman movie.

You gotta remember it was written a year before Goyer and Nolan sat down to write the movie and the art on it had begun long before Heath Ledger was cast as the Joker. It was actually just serendipity that it resembled the movie.

[KingMob]

You gotta remember it was written a year before Goyer and Nolan sat down to write the movie and the art on it had begun long before Heath Ledger was cast as the Joker. It was actually just serendipity that it resembled the movie.

I never knew that, strange, now thats a case of bum timing.

[bachman]

It was ok, definitely not one of the better Joker stories of all time.

The thing is, he just acted like a psycho that took drugs, pills, and drank a lot... it didn't really feel like any incarnation of Joker.

Here is why i think The Killing Joke is much better:
In TKJ: Joker is colorful, in good-spirits, funny, smart and eloquent. But he is also sick, twisted, violent, dark, and scary. I think the way he went back and forth, and at times was many things at once, was distrurbing.

In the new book, he is just one-half of the above description, the dark-half. He's like every other "dark" character in the book, so he wasn't as interesting.

[KingMob]

and the beginning of the book reminds me of the Blues Brothers!

:lol:

[bachman]

Very tough call.


But for me, personally, I'd rank it above Killing Joke. Definitely. Killing Joker is an amazing story as well, but I don't like a sympathetic Joker. I want to like him, and hate him, and then hate myself for liking him.


In the new book, there is a scene where he is crying and on his knees hugging Harley Quinn, like a child. I would say that's just as sympathetic as anything in The Killing Joke.

[Garth]

While I enjoyed it, and it has stuck with me later on, it is not the best thing I have ever read. And probably not my favorite Joker story either. It is solid, and I really think I need to give it another read, as others have mentioned. Azz. does an amazing job of having extremely layered stories which make the reader work for the story.

[VonDoom]

On reflection and a second read through, I have to say that, while it is a perfectly servicable comic book, with some truly gorgeous art, I didn't feel that it captured anything new or interesting about the characters that hadn't already been explored. It was very good, but it was no Killing Joke.

[Ryan Elliott]

In the new book, there is a scene where he is crying and on his knees hugging Harley Quinn, like a child. I would say that's just as sympathetic as anything in The Killing Joke.


He skinned a guy alive a few pages before that.


Didn't really feel sorry for him. At all.


Definitely felt sorry for him in Killing Joke. Which I don't really want to do.

[Supreme Convoy]

I have a Borders 30% off coupon and a $5 rewards coupon to use and I really wanted Joker.... but all the Borders stores I went to were sold out! Apparently it's a hot item for them.

[joeAR]

I have a Borders 30% off coupon and a $5 rewards coupon to use and I really wanted Joker.... but all the Borders stores I went to were sold out! Apparently it's a hot item for them.


Yeah my comic store sold out on the first day and it's backed up on re-orders.

[Clayton James]

Eh.

I could take it or leave it. I bought it for my brother's birthday. He'll get a kick out of it I'm sure. And he doesn't even read comics.

...actually I'm pretty sure that's WHY he'll get a kick out of it.

[En Sabah Poo]

It was decent, but I have to stop buying these DC character books because I have no outside reference on these characters since I don't read DC comics. I'll stick with All Star Superman, but the rest, meh. Like I said, decent enough read, but didn't knock my socks off. I still like Arkham Asylum a million times more.

[Mattman]

It was decent, but I have to stop buying these DC character books because I have no outside reference on these characters since I don't read DC comics. I'll stick with All Star Superman, but the rest, meh. Like I said, decent enough read, but didn't knock my socks off. I still like Arkham Asylum a million times more.
The book is more or less outside of DC continuity. You don't have to know anything about the DC Universe to enjoy it.

[Ryan Elliott]

It was decent, but I have to stop buying these DC character books because I have no outside reference on these characters since I don't read DC comics. I'll stick with All Star Superman, but the rest, meh. Like I said, decent enough read, but didn't knock my socks off. I still like Arkham Asylum a million times more.


The book is more or less outside of DC continuity. You don't have to know anything about the DC Universe to enjoy it.


Yep.


Treat it a little more like a sequel to TDK that we'll never see, and I think it might raise your enjoyment of it a little bit more.

[En Sabah Poo]

The book is more or less outside of DC continuity. You don't have to know anything about the DC Universe to enjoy it.

That's not what I mean. I know its outside the continuity, that's why I bought it. What I mean is, you tend to get a better appreciation for these character books if you have read stories about them in the regular continuity. It makes them stand out more, otherwise, it is basically the only time you've read about the Joker, so it doesn't really seem special at all.

[superstring]

I loved the book. Azzarello and Bermejo knocked it out of the ballpark. I did have some questions:

What was inside the briefcase?

Why was the Riddler limping?

Any insight would be great.

[Ryan Elliott]

I loved the book. Azzarello and Bermejo knocked it out of the ballpark. I did have some questions:

What was inside the briefcase?

Why was the Riddler limping?

Any insight would be great.


I don't recall what was in the briefcase, but Riddler was limping because I'm guessing that's just the way Azzarello wanted Riddler's character portrayed. Someone who's not so physically fit, but is incredibly smart and crafty. He chose a limp, as opposed to Riddler just being small and scrawny to portray that.

That's not official, but that's the way I see it.

[tdaniel]

not the book of the year. yeah. no.

good, not great.

the story is so slight but the characterization so thick it still remains interesting. the art is beautiful, but really at about page 100 I started to wonder where it was going, and if I was too stupid a reader not to have seen what was being set-up. That maybe Azzarello was writing something so subtle and keen that I was too dense to "get it". Nope, he wasn't, there was no story - really. It felt like it was one long act with little suspense or payoff.

Unfortunately I've seen this compared to Killing Joke and other classics...not for story, but for character, sure.

But damn if both writer and artist did not nail these characters to the wall, peel off their old tired skins and give 'em a fresh coat to wear, particularly Croc.

Otherwise, I'm happy to have it on the shelf.

All-timer? No.

[Jef UK]

I liked it, although as an aging reader, I think I've about had it with reading different takes on the Batman universe.

[NeverWanderer]

Finally read this!

I thought it was damn impressive. Everybody's doing the Killing Joke comparison, so lets do that.

The art was gorgeous, and every bit as good as Bolland's. Same with the colors (though, I'm talking about the original Killing Joke colors. I don't like the new edition colors at all). The characterization is brilliant and frightening. The story is sharp and subtle, even as the situations are grotesque.

Really, in almost all facets, I see it as equal to The Killing Joke.

So, what it comes down to for me is the way it reads. The writing. The pacing. And in that, Killing Joke still reigns supreme. That book is an exercise in absolute perfect pacing, right down to the final page.

This book, though riveting, just doesn't pack that satisfying punch by the end. Oh, it has its moments... (and, as long as we're trading horror stories, I think the most disturbing moment for me was the elderly couple)... and the showdown is amazing and pretty much pitch-perfect... but, by the end, it feels like you've missed a few pages. The entire book feels like it's building to something larger, yet it is never realized. And it's not disappointment that Azz didn't take it where I thought he was going to, it's that he doesn't really seem to take it anywhere at all. The story escalates and escalates and then... plateaus... and then ends.

And the final nail in the coffin for me?

The last page. Did not pack punch. Did not offer a satisfying conclusion to the narrative. I get what he's trying to say. That there's no cure for insanity, that there is only ever those who feed it. But... y'know? It just didn't feel good enough. And the final line just didn't hit home.

All in all, I think the book was amazing, engrossing, ambitious, and maybe because of the potential in that ambition (and, I'm sure, some of the hype), just a little bit disappointing. A worthy addition to the mythos, but it does not unseat The Killing Joke. Certainly Top 3, though! I give it an A-.


And now... the details and nitpicks...

- "To mock you." Fucking perfect. Such a different relationship than what is portrayed in other books, but so, so perfect. And, again, Bermejo completely accidentally NAILS the look of the movies, this time with Batman's costume! I was expecting something like what he did in Batman/Deathblow, but this was surprisingly different. The guy really is an amazing artist.

- I love the little insights you get into the Joker's fractured soul. "I hate apologies." What's so disturbing about it is how COMMON that sentiment is.

- I liked the new designs of the characters -- except Harvey seemed almost exactly like the Tommy Lee Jones makeup from Batman Forever. That was... odd. Also, I kinda wished the eye on the scarred side of his face was completely missing. That would have been a cool twist.

- Now for my one big complaint...

What the fuck was in the briefcase?? That's got to be (aside from the last page) the one huge disappointment for me! Such emphasis is placed on it when he receives it, but then nothing ever comes of it. All you get is a bunch of vague talk about Dent's "marriage" -- what... did the Joker find Gilda? Is she in witness protection or something? Is that really SO impossible to steal that the Riddler would consider it a worthy challenge?

And, that's another thing... this book is supposed to be outside of continuity, and yet, the ONLY way I can even TRY to comprehend what might have been happening in that scene is if I call on my continuity knowledge from The Long Halloween. Without that? No fucking clue.

There's a fine line between being artistically vague and being plain old friggin impenetrable. And that is just what the briefcase and Two-Face scenes are.

It almost feels like the writer couldn't come up with good enough leverage for Joker to have over Harvey, so he just writes it vague and vapors over it to cover his own inability, and then plays it off like "That's not the point." But in that case, the entire scene with Two-Face becomes pointless and he's just spinning his wheels. And that makes the briefcase little more than a thin homage to Pulp Fiction. And I think that would be below Azzerello.

So I'm back to my initial assessment of impenetrability.

[Stupid ape]

just got done reading it, and it truly is amazing. It's deep, and I love that it stayed true to the Dark Knight version of him.

[NeverWanderer]

just got done reading it, and it truly is amazing. It's deep, and I love that it stayed true to the Dark Knight version of him.

That's one thing I forgot to mention...

I was reading the book, imagining Heath Ledger's performance, until the Joker throws is first psycho fit... and at that point, the portrayal becomes completely its own animal.

That was the thing with Ledger's Joker. He never lost his cool (well... except for that one time... but even then, he became more lucid, not more insane).

[Adam Witt]

I dug it. I wouldn't call it the best Joker story ever, and I definitely wouldn't call it book of the year, but I definitely dug it. Lots of fun, and definitely more than a little fucked up.

[Supreme Convoy]

It's strange, I like Azzarello & Bermejo's Batman/Deathblow even though I'm puzzled by its ending. Same for Joker... I seriously felt like I was missing the last few pages. I'm also puzzled about the whole "Abner" thing.

Nonetheless, I still enjoy the book. Love Bermejo's stuff, especially the pages that are digitally painted.

[Thommy Melanson]

It's strange, I like Azzarello & Bermejo's Batman/Deathblow even though I'm puzzled by its ending. Same for Joker... I seriously felt like I was missing the last few pages...

S
P
O
I
L
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R

S
P
A
C
E

Foreshadowed by the childhood story he told us earlier in the book about his pet toad and the bullies on the rooftop, Jonny - now horribly disfigured from Joker's shooting - realizes that he'll end up just like Joker, and there will always be someone like Batman to take him down.

So instead of letting that happen, he threw himself off the bridge.

Joker's monologue to Bats was also to Jonny, since Jonny - as his narration throughout the book informed us - always wanted to be the baddest of bad asses, yet at the end of the day, he's not an evil monster, just a stock low-level criminal not cut out to play in their leagues.

[Kurt Russell Crowe]

I thought it was really good. I also thought it will get completely hyped out of proportion, and it has. That's not a bad thing, though.

[Mark4myself]

I thought it was very enjoyable but I would hesitate to call it the best book of the year or even the best Joker story ever, I would even argue that this wasn't actually a "Joker" story.

The Killing Joke just resonates with me more. This was a very dark Joker and I for one LOVE my Joker to be dark, but it was the fragile and human side of the Joker we saw in The Killing Joke that made that the Joker story by which all Joker stories are judged. One nitpick that just nagged me is the inability for DC to decide if this was a mature book or not. The violence is VERY mature yet they make sure to censor Harley Quinn's breasts. A man being skinned or having his face carved with a broken bottle is okay but nipples are the devil??? Really???

I felt the story was fantastic. Not every story needs to be epic and this one was simplistic in a sense but powerful. I would even argue that the arc of the story has just as much if not more to do with Johnny than the Joker himself. For me one of the most powerful moments of the entire book was when the Joker raped/had sex with Johnny's wife as payback. You could get a sense of Johnny's spirit dying with that vicious act after the tense showdown just prior to it. He saved her, but he saved her for that? She was just as scarred and perhaps would have preferred to be dead. At that moment he no longer had a reason to be. He realized he had poisoned everything in his life and that there was only one way for things to end for him. Another victim of the Joker's insanity. The only debate is did he die on the bridge or was he already dead from having witnessed the brutal act perpetrated by the Joker upon his wife. The journey we are on in this story is not the Jokers but rather Johnny's. He is our eyes into the Joker's world but at the end of the story it's his tale we have been privy to. Thus this is actually a story about him and not the Joker at all.

[Supreme Convoy]

Foreshadowed by the childhood story he told us earlier in the book about his pet toad and the bullies on the rooftop, Jonny - now horribly disfigured from Joker's shooting - realizes that he'll end up just like Joker, and there will always be someone like Batman to take him down.

So instead of letting that happen, he threw himself off the bridge.

Joker's monologue to Bats was also to Jonny, since Jonny - as his narration throughout the book informed us - always wanted to be the baddest of bad asses, yet at the end of the day, he's not an evil monster, just a stock low-level criminal not cut out to play in their leagues.

You know, I never realized that Jonny jumps off the bridge at the end. What you've pointed out changes my perception of the book. Thanks!

[Jef UK]

I found it interesting, but at the same time Azzarello makes reader work a lot to understand the story, as he always does. I'll need to read it a few more times, methinks.

The Batman sequence at the end is awesome, though.

What did you have to work at to understand? I thought it was a straightforward, rather easy read.

[thecheat1]

I had trouble figuring out what Joker meant about Two-Face being a bigimist. Who else was Harvey married to?

[VonDoom]

What did you have to work at to understand? I thought it was a straightforward, rather easy read.

I have no idea what was in the briefcase, and how it fit into the Joker's plan. What was the Joker's plan, anyway?

It took me a second read to realize that the Joker had raped Johnny's wife.

I also found the ending quite ambiguous - I appreciate the explanation a fellow poster gave above - interesting stuff, if somewhat rote.

In general, I find Azzarello's dialogue very obfuscating - it reads like I'm listening in on a conversation in a subway - I'm not allowed access into the information the characters have.

[Garth]

I have no idea what was in the briefcase, and how it fit into the Joker's plan. What was the Joker's plan, anyway?

It took me a second read to realize that the Joker had raped Johnny's wife.


See, when first read through, I thought it was Batman searching for info. Is there anything in particular that identifies that person as the Joker?

[NeverWanderer]

See, when first read through, I thought it was Batman searching for info. Is there anything in particular that identifies that person as the Joker?

You... mean like the scars and make-up and gang that surrounds him? ;)

[Garth]

You... mean like the scars and make-up and gang that surrounds him? ;)

*goes to look at his copy*

Ok, I am an idiot. I read the posts about the rape and I went back and looked and immediately found the scene after Two Face meets wit Batman. Harley Quinn is surprised as someone breaks through the window. For some reason I thought that was Shelly and figured that was the scene in discussion. Now looking back over it, I never even noticed that Joker's pants were being pulled up after being in the car with Shelly Wow, I definitely need to read this a bunch more times. I get so caught up with Azz's dialogue, that I don't pay as much attention to the story the art is telling.

[NeverWanderer]

*goes to look at his copy*

Ok, I am an idiot. I read the posts about the rape and I went back and looked and immediately found the scene after Two Face meets wit Batman. Harley Quinn is surprised as someone breaks through the window. For some reason I thought that was Shelly and figured that was the scene in discussion. Now looking back over it, I never even noticed that Joker's pants were being pulled up after being in the car with Shelly Wow, I definitely need to read this a bunch more times. I get so caught up with Azz's dialogue, that I don't pay as much attention to the story the art is telling.

Yeah, it took Ashwin pointing out the rape before I realized that's what had happened.

[Garth]

Yeah, it took Ashwin pointing out the rape before I realized that's what had happened.

That is so like Ashwinpointing out rapes left and right

[NeverWanderer]

That is so like Ashwinpointing out rapes left and right

Hey man, some people are just drawn to the brighter side of things.

[Ashwin Pande]

I totally didn't expect this when I clicked on this thread. :lol:

[NeverWanderer]

I totally didn't expect this when I clicked on this thread. :lol:

Let me guess what you did expect...

Was it a rape?

[Fygar]

I read this at work the other night, and it was pretty great. I can't wait to read it again.



- At first I didn't think I'd like it, because I thought it was just going to be over the top and dark just to be dark. The skinned alive bit didn't hit the right notes for me, but luckily that was the only scene.

- When you're done with it it truly feels like you spent a few days (weeks?) with the Joker on some whacked out bender. That's a perspective I don't remember seeing before, and it was pretty neat. What sad, lonely and fucked up man he is in this story. They sell it to you as a man who's trying to rebuild his empire, but that's not it at all. Someone earlier mentioned that it has no story, but I think it just has little story. Joker needs Batman's attention, and for whatever reason he's not getting it (I just assume Batman's on the wrong trail/ busy with other Gotham problems). Which is a very interesting story to tell even if it's minor.

- I honestly didn't expect to find out what was in the brief case. Was this purely a pulp fiction reference? It even lit up Joker's face in a similar manner. I also thought it was weird that Joker whispered in Frost's ear, and we didn't get to "hear" it which is similar to Lost in Translation.

- I don't get the effect of having two inkers. They were just random moments. Odd choice, but it rarely detracts.

- The way Azarello breaks up his sentences across multiple panels bothers me a bit. There was no flow for several scenes in a row because of it. Sometimes I want the "point" of the sentence all in one image, and that seemed to rarely happen. It made for a choppy read, and I think it's why I didn't appreciate the art as much as I should have (ie I missed the allusion to rape as well).

- Final scene with Batman was perfect. Some of those images may be the best depictions of those two fighting I've ever seen. I stared at them for a very very long time.

[Jim T.]

I read this at work the other night, and it was pretty great. I can't wait to read it again.



- At first I didn't think I'd like it, because I thought it was just going to be over the top and dark just to be dark. The skinned alive bit didn't hit the right notes for me, but luckily that was the only scene.

- When you're done with it it truly feels like you spent a few days (weeks?) with the Joker on some whacked out bender. That's a perspective I don't remember seeing before, and it was pretty neat. What sad, lonely and fucked up man he is in this story. They sell it to you as a man who's trying to rebuild his empire, but that's not it at all. Someone earlier mentioned that it has no story, but I think it just has little story. Joker needs Batman's attention, and for whatever reason he's not getting it (I just assume Batman's on the wrong trail/ busy with other Gotham problems). Which is a very interesting story to tell even if it's minor.

- I honestly didn't expect to find out what was in the brief case. Was this purely a pulp fiction reference? It even lit up Joker's face in a similar manner. I also thought it was weird that Joker whispered in Frost's ear, and we didn't get to "hear" it which is similar to Lost in Translation.

- I don't get the effect of having two inkers. They were just random moments. Odd choice, but it rarely detracts.

- The way Azarello breaks up his sentences across multiple panels bothers me a bit. There was no flow for several scenes in a row because of it. Sometimes I want the "point" of the sentence all in one image, and that seemed to rarely happen. It made for a choppy read, and I think it's why I didn't appreciate the art as much as I should have (ie I missed the allusion to rape as well).

- Final scene with Batman was perfect. Some of those images may be the best depictions of those two fighting I've ever seen. I stared at them for a very very long time.




Hrm. I need to re-read this again... I thought the briefcase contents were evidence that one of Harvey's personalities had gotten married and Joker knew where the wife was. That's why Joker told Harvey that in their business they can't afford to get married. But now that I'm thinking about it, maybe what he was referring to was the "marraige" between Harvey's 2 personalities??


As for the whispering, I though he'd whispered in Harvey's ear and what he whispered was something about how he'd figured out how to kill on of the personalities, which is what Harvey then relayed to Batman.