Diamonds - one of the most idiotically over-valued scams in modern history.

[Doc Randy]

Let me start by saying that I think diamonds are stupid. Yes, they have their place in industry and science, but diamonds as jewelry is a stupid concept. In fact, I think almost all forms of precious metals and gems used for jewelry and adornment are idiotic. They represent some sort of idiotic fascination with bright shiny useless object. Add to that the horrific history of diamond cartels, imperialism in Africa, and human rights abuses, and I think anybody that spends any money of diamonds are fools.

The fact that diamonds can be manufactured via industrial processes these days makes the entire industry even more of a sad sad sham.

Just today, Yahoo ran an article about how even bigger better flawless diamonds can be mass produced. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/scientistsgrowbiggerbetterdiamonds)

Wired Magazine (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html?pg=1) did a nice piece a while back on synthetic diamonds as well.

So if we can just make them in a lab, if we can manufacture them to be bigger and of better quality than we can mine them, why the fuck do people keep spending absurd amounts of money and resources on these stupid idiotic gems that do absolutely nothing but look shiny?

Seriously, what the fuck? Why the hell does anybody want one?

Just seems like some silly primitive bullshit to me.

Oh yeah... fuck gold as well.

[Amos Moses]

Oh yeah... fuck gold as well.

I'm sure your computer will respond to this soon.

Also, get with the program and start loving shiny rocks. Everytime I walk past a Jewelry store and I spot the Emerald section I pitch a tent.

[ShortStack]

Diamonds are not my best friend. That spot is reserved for Guiness and then maybe my actual best friend.

[Doc Randy]

To be fair, I have zero issues with industrial or scientific applications of diamonds, gold, etc...

[Amos Moses]

To be fair, I have zero issues with industrial or scientific applications of diamonds, gold, etc...

But you have problems with people thinking they're pretty? I think whatever Michaelangelo's "David" is made of is pretty, does that make me a douchebag in your book?

[Casali]

I agree with you, but I have given up trying to convince most other people.

The fact that it took less than 50 years to program Americans into thinking they couldn't get engaged without a rock on the woman's finger says a lot about how easy it is to program.

The fact that a lot of people see diamonds as an "investment" depresses me even more. I can't seem to figure out how something that loses roughly 50% of its value once it is purchased and has no actual use can be seen as an investment.

[Doc Randy]

But you have problems with people thinking they're pretty? I think whatever Michaelangelo's "David" is made of is pretty, does that make me a douchebag in your book?

Aesthetic appreciation and economic valuation are two separate things.

And if the marble industry was as fraught with the same level of human rights abuses and imperialism in its history, then yes, I would think the valuation of marble was idiotic. Even more so if people were spending absurd amounts of resources on marble when it could be produced cheaper and in better qualities via industrial processes.

[Ray G.]

They're the ugliest precious stone to boot. Woo! It looks like glass!

I can see the appeal of sapphires, emeralds, rubies, etc.

[Amos Moses]

Aesthetic appreciation and economic valuation are two separate things.

And if the marble industry was as fraught with the same level of human rights abuses and imperialism in its history, then yes, I would think the valuation of marble was idiotic. Even more so if people were spending absurd amounts of resources on marble when it could be produced cheaper and in better qualities via industrial processes.

Man if I could go back in time I would become a Marble smuggler straight out of High School.

[DrMachine]

marketing

[Patrick J]

Seriously, what the fuck? Why the hell does anybody want one?

The answer you're looking for is; Advertising!!!

Very, very good advertising.

[Doc Randy]

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff244/ubercomments/funny/011.gif

[Andy Kuhn]

i feel the exact same way about comics. clearly they can be of great use in industry, but i can't understand people who continue to buy them for "entertainment" purposes. :)

[Beazly]

I agree with you, but I have given up trying to convince most other people.

The fact that it took less than 50 years to program Americans into thinking they couldn't get engaged without a rock on the woman's finger says a lot about how easy it is to program.

The fact that a lot of people see diamonds as an "investment" depresses me even more. I can't seem to figure out how something that loses roughly 50% of its value once it is purchased and has no actual use can be seen as an investment.

I agree with you completely. I just got engaged and my fiancé got me an absolutely gorgeous engagement ring set with an opal instead of a diamond. Second thing my mother said after i told? "Well when is he going to get you a diamond?" What the hell!?! It's not really an engagement ring till it's a diamond? Fuck that.

[Hoggie]

This argument can be made about almost any materialistic thing.

[Magnum V.I.]

They say diamonds are a girl's best friend but I can give them a pearl necklace they'll never forget!

[Doc Randy]

i feel the exact same way about comics. clearly they can be of great use in industry, but i can't understand people who continue to buy them for "entertainment" purposes. :)

Comics, unlike diamonds, can't be artificially grown in a lab and yield a superior quality. Just ask Crossgen. :twisted:

[Ray G.]

This argument can be made about almost any materialistic thing.

Not really. A lot of those have long-term enjoyment qualities, like a ridiculous sized plasma TV. Even short-term ones, like caviar or some of those ridiculously expensive food items, I can see the appeal. But a glass-like clear stone that will only serve to make you more likely to get robbed?

[ShortStack]

i feel the exact same way about comics. clearly they can be of great use in industry, but i can't understand people who continue to buy them for "entertainment" purposes. :)

Hey, when the depression hits what's going to be easier to digest-tree bark or free comic book day fails?

[Doc Randy]

This argument can be made about almost any materialistic thing.

You are missing the point. Diamonds can be mass produced and these "artificial diamonds" are actually easier to make, less harmful to the planet, involve less human rights abuses, and are actually of superior quality.

You would think that would drive the costs down, right? Unlimited supply. Static demand.

But no... people still pay absurd amounts for these useless shiny rocks.

I can point to tons of materialistic things and show that they serve some utilitarian function. What function do diamonds serve (outside of industrial or scientific uses)?

[Hoggie]

Not really. A lot of those have long-term enjoyment qualities, like a ridiculous sized plasma TV. Even short-term ones, like caviar or some of those ridiculously expensive food items, I can see the appeal. But a glass-like clear stone that will only serve to make you more likely to get robbed?

I shouldn't have been so general. I was thinking more along the lines of all jewelry and things of that sort that people use to adorn themselves. Of course fancy cars and tvs have more "value" to them. I have to disagree with the caviar and Cystal champagne argument though, I think your just dumb if you waste your money on that stuff. No fish egg is worth $500/oz.

[Hoggie]

You are missing the point. Diamonds can be mass produced and these "artificial diamonds" are actually easier to make, less harmful to the planet, involve less human rights abuses, and are actually of superior quality.

You would think that would drive the costs down, right? Unlimited supply. Static demand.

But no... people still pay absurd amounts for these useless shiny rocks.

I can point to tons of materialistic things and show that they serve some utilitarian function. What function do diamonds serve (outside of industrial or scientific uses)?

They can serve as a weapon when the women is attacked. J/k I agree diamonds are dumb but if it makes your woman feel good.......

[Pia Guerra]

And you can buy diamonds that are Kimberley Process Certified that are guaranteed non-conflict.

I have a ring sporting a Garnet and two very small diamonds, cost us about three hundred bucks, and I love it. Some might think it looks like glass but y'know, I've got glass costume rings and there's a huge difference. Glass is pretty, but a well cut diamond is stunning. If you don't want to pay the crazy price 'tradition' recommends then don't, get something pretty instead.

[Albert]

Diamonds are forever.

[Doc Randy]

And you can buy diamonds that are Kimberley Process Certified that are guaranteed non-conflict.

I have a ring sporting a Garnet and two very small diamonds, cost us about three hundred bucks, and I love it. Some might think it looks like glass but y'know, I've got glass costume rings and there's a huge difference. Glass is pretty, but a well cut diamond is stunning. If you don't want to pay the crazy price 'tradition' recommends then don't, get something pretty instead.

1) Kimberly Process certification only started in 2003. The same companies using this standard were the exact same ones promoting western imperialism in Africa and the human rights abuses.

2) Even if diamonds are pretty, now that we can manufacture them significantly cheaper than mining them and yield a better quality product, shouldn't the prices go down?
If we had alchemy and could create unlimited amounts of gold for cheaper than we could mine and process it, don't you think the price of gold would drop significantly? But knowing what we know about diamonds, people still pay absurd amounts for them.

[Akira]

http://www.diamondcomics.com/public/images/dcd-47.gif?

[Kedd]

Let me start by saying that I think diamonds are stupid. Yes, they have their place in industry and science, but diamonds as jewelry is a stupid concept. In fact, I think almost all forms of precious metals and gems used for jewelry and adornment are idiotic. They represent some sort of idiotic fascination with bright shiny useless object. Add to that the horrific history of diamond cartels, imperialism in Africa, and human rights abuses, and I think anybody that spends any money of diamonds are fools.

The fact that diamonds can be manufactured via industrial processes these days makes the entire industry even more of a sad sad sham.

Just today, Yahoo ran an article about how even bigger better flawless diamonds can be mass produced. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/scientistsgrowbiggerbetterdiamonds)

Wired Magazine (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html?pg=1) did a nice piece a while back on synthetic diamonds as well.

So if we can just make them in a lab, if we can manufacture them to be bigger and of better quality than we can mine them, why the fuck do people keep spending absurd amounts of money and resources on these stupid idiotic gems that do absolutely nothing but look shiny?

Seriously, what the fuck? Why the hell does anybody want one?

Just seems like some silly primitive bullshit to me.

Oh yeah... fuck gold as well.

*slow clap*

[lonesomefool]

Yeah, they are bullshit. Then again, the vast majority of the physical things people place importance on are bullshit.

The only solace I take in it, is that chances are I will never be able to afford a diamond for my future ex-wife (;)) and the fact that I will likely never have to worry about diamonds, flowers, necklaces, etc. if my love life continues the way it has gone over the past 4 years.

[NathanDetroit]

Diamonds are forever.

so is herpes.


not that i know from experience or anything.:scared:

[Pia Guerra]

1) Kimberly Process certification only started in 2003. The same companies using this standard were the exact same ones promoting western imperialism in Africa and the human rights abuses.

2) Even if diamonds are pretty, now that we can manufacture them significantly cheaper than mining them and yield a better quality product, shouldn't the prices go down?
If we had alchemy and could create unlimited amounts of gold for cheaper than we could mine and process it, don't you think the price of gold would drop significantly? But knowing what we know about diamonds, people still pay absurd amounts for them.

Do you drive a car? Where do you think the gas comes from? Come on, there's so much in our lives that are the result of misery, and there are plenty of people doing what they can to lessen that misery, including patronising companies that have changed their policies as a result of consumer demand. I have no problem with the Birks ring on my finger.

Oh and as for saphires and rubies and other semi-precious stones, guess where they come from? Burma. No certification process there and are just as blood soaked as conflict diamonds.

Maybe those who like the look of diamonds are being silly but the same can be said of those who like funny books. Just think of how many trees were cut down for Spawn #1! God! Comics are fucking evil! Who would read such things?! Bleh.

[Beep Beep!]

Glass is pretty, but a well cut diamond is stunning.:thumb:


If you don't want to pay the crazy price 'tradition' recommends then don't.Pawnshop
Overstock.com
Craigs List

[LenNWallace]

Your wife's squackin' for you to buy her something fancy for an upcoming anniversary/birthday/holiday, isn't she? Way to make a stand!

[Doc Randy]

Do you drive a car? Where do you think the gas comes from? Come on, there's so much in our lives that are the result of misery, and there are plenty of people doing what they can to lessen that misery, including patronising companies that have changed their policies as a result of consumer demand. I have no problem with the Birks ring on my finger.

Oh and as for saphires and rubies and other semi-precious stones, guess where they come from? Burma. No certification process there and are just as blood soaked as conflict diamonds.

Maybe those who like the look of diamonds are being silly but the same can be said of those who like funny books. Just think of how many trees were cut down for Spawn #1! God! Comics are fucking evil! Who would read such things?! Bleh.


You are ignoring my comments on the synthetic manufacturing process.

If oil could be synthetically manufactured with significantly less harm to the environment, free from any historical ties to human rights abuses, at a much lower cost and yielding a much greater value, wouldn't we have a moral obligation to switch to this cleaner, safer, better quality oil?

We now have industrial diamond "alchemy". It is a reality. It is cheaper to manufacture. It is safer. It is free of the history of human rights abuses. It is of better quality. But the economic valuation hasn't changed.

FYI - I don't like the excessive value on any precious stones or metals outside of industrial/scientific purposes.

[Beep Beep!]

http://www.jared.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product1|10451|10001|-1|990123705|19061|19073.19646.20107 (http://www.jared.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product1%7C10451%7C10001%7C-1%7C990123705%7C19061%7C19073.19646.20107)

or

http://www.overstock.com/Jewelry-Watches/14kt-Yellow-Gold-1ct-TDW-Round-Diamond-Three-Stone-Ring-H-I-J-I2-I3/1849759/product.html


:crazy:

[Doc Randy]

Your wife's squackin' for you to buy her something fancy for an upcoming anniversary/birthday/holiday, isn't she? Way to make a stand!

My wife would kill me if I bought her a diamond. Our matching wedding rings, which we only got to make our parents happy at the wedding ceremony, cost us like $30. We're not fancy metal and gem people. A good relationship and solid love needs no material symbol.

[EmarAndZeb]

You would think that would drive the costs down, right? Unlimited supply. Static demand.

But no... people still pay absurd amounts for these useless shiny rocks.

Yeah, the psychology of conspicuous consumption is such that people are going to believe it "doesn't count" if they don't waste money on the "real thing*". There's an economic term for that kind of a luxury product, but I forget what it is (it may be "superior good" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_good); I'm not sure). Unfortunately, rationality doesn't play too big apart in conspicuous consumption...

Well, bear in mind the technology to produce as-good-or-better-than-natural diamonds is still only a few years old; people might start wising up and the prices will come down after a while, and diamonds will be supplanted by something else as the most absurd luxury product out there...




*"Real thing" in this instance meaning "hauled out of the earth at slave wages".

[Doc Randy]

http://www.jared.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product1|10451|10001|-1|990123705|19061|19073.19646.20107 (http://www.jared.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product1%7C10451%7C10001%7C-1%7C990123705%7C19061%7C19073.19646.20107)

or

http://www.overstock.com/Jewelry-Watches/14kt-Yellow-Gold-1ct-TDW-Round-Diamond-Three-Stone-Ring-H-I-J-I2-I3/1849759/product.html


:crazy:

You think that's crazy?

What about Damien Hirst's $100 million diamond covered skull?!?!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/215/524919354_b25993c5d6.jpg

That's right... $100 Million.

[LenNWallace]

My wife would kill me if I bought her a diamond. Our matching wedding rings, which we only got to make our parents happy, cost us like $30. We're not fancy metal and gem people. A good relationship and solid love needs no material symbol.

Question: Can your wife be synthetically manufactured yet? Because natural women are making me broke and it is my understanding that we're in a recession.

[Artie Pink]

I think this rant would be better used on, say, animal testing for cosmetics.

[LenNWallace]

You think that's crazy?

What about Damien Hirst's $100 million diamond covered skull?!?!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/215/524919354_b25993c5d6.jpg

That's right... $100 Million.

Didn't someone just make a movie about that? I think it involved "raped childhoods" or something.

[Doc Randy]

I think this rant would be better used on, say, animal testing for cosmetics.

Can we synthetically manufacture animals in greater quantities and quality than we can raise them? If so, then hell yes, we should be testing on these cheaper synthetic animals! :twisted:

[Beep Beep!]

We now have industrial diamond "alchemy". It is a reality. It is cheaper to manufacture. It is safer. It is free of the history of human rights abuses. It is of better quality. But the economic valuation hasn't changed.

FYI - I don't like the excessive value on any precious stones or metals outside of industrial/scientific purposes.It's not that cheap. A Moissanite ring comparable to the one I linked to in Overstock.com cost more . . . from Home Shopping Network:

http://jewelry.hsn.com/cnt/prod/default.aspx?action=matrix_change&webp_id=3021006&gs=&sz=0&sf=J&dept=J00129&cat=&subcat=&attr=4229&pagezone=&o=&webm_id=10022490

[ShortStack]

my friends christi and axe got the most gorgeous carved wooden rings for their engagement. I'm always jealous.

[Doc Randy]

It's not that cheap. A Moissanite ring comparable to the one I linked to in Overstock.com cost more . . . from Home Shopping Network:

http://jewelry.hsn.com/cnt/prod/default.aspx?action=matrix_change&webp_id=3021006&gs=&sz=0&sf=J&dept=J00129&cat=&subcat=&attr=4229&pagezone=&o=&webm_id=10022490

You are looking at jewelry, not raw diamonds. Jewelry at least has some valuation based on artistic and manufacturing merit. I may not agree with the prices, but it is a product, not a raw material.

Diamonds by themselves are just a raw resource that I am arguing are artificially costly - especially in light of newer manufacturing processes.

[LenNWallace]

my friends christi and axe got the most gorgeous carved wooden rings for their engagement. I'm always jealous.

But OMG! Think of the TREEEEEEZ!

[Artie Pink]

Can we synthetically manufacture animals in greater quantities and quality than we can raise them? If so, then hell yes, we should be testing on these cheaper synthetic animals! :twisted:


:sad:

[ShortStack]

But OMG! Think of the TREEEEEEZ!

tree that was going to get killed anyway or african slave labor...
hurrr..
I keed Len *lehug!*

[Pia Guerra]

You are ignoring my comments on the synthetic manufacturing process.

If oil could be synthetically manufactured with significantly less harm to the environment, free from any historical ties to human rights abuses, at a much lower cost and yielding a much greater value, wouldn't we have a moral obligation to switch to this cleaner, safer, better quality oil?

We now have industrial diamond "alchemy". It is a reality. It is cheaper to manufacture. It is safer. It is free of the history of human rights abuses. It is of better quality. But the economic valuation hasn't changed.

FYI - I don't like the excessive value on any precious stones or metals outside of industrial/scientific purposes.

I think a lot of people associate the manufactured 'diamonds' with stories that circulated about ten years back, when the stones started appearing, where they were being sold as the real thing or rings with real diamonds that were sent in for cleaning were then being ripped off and the stones replaced with fake stones. Experts then showed how the fakes were in fact inferior, they didn't shine as brightly, they weren't as dense etc. Maybe that's changed but there's still this idea out there that the fakes are just cheap imitations and when it comes to the tradition around engagement rings, a lot of people associate quality with intention, that if you give your fiancee a piece of glass on some crap gold that you're not taking the relationship seriously. Some people go overboard and again, if you don't like the tradition, don't follow it and pass your values down to your progeny.

Expecting others to change their value systems just like that... it's a bit harder.

[Doc Randy]

Experts then showed how the fakes were in fact inferior, they didn't shine as brightly, they weren't as dense etc.

The established diamond industry has a vested interest in making you think synthetic diamonds are inferior. I would recommend you read the two articles I linked to. The technology has changed dramatically. The quality has changed dramatically.


Maybe that's changed but there's still this idea out there that the fakes are just cheap imitations and when it comes to the tradition around engagement rings, a lot of people associate quality with intention, that if you give your fiancee a piece of glass on some crap gold that you're not taking the relationship seriously. Some people go overboard and again, if you don't like the tradition, don't follow it and pass your values down to your progeny.

And where did this "tradition" come from? Could it be a long well-documented marketing campaign by the diamond industry? This "tradition" is relatively new.

[Dreaded Anomaly]

I'm a physicist, so hopefully I'll be able to convince my future spouse that it's actually more meaningful to get a diamond produced by a photonic-semiconductor company like Apollo Diamond. :)

[Thudpucker]

I don't see the appeal in owning something just for it's monetary value. I'm not a very materialistic person though, I don't really get wanting to own really expensive things.

It's not that I don't have small collection of frivilous things. I enjoy collectables for example, mini busts and things like that, but I try not to spend alot of money on objects.

To spend thousands of dollars on jewelry would be like that to me. I can see having a few nice pieces but beyond that it's a fairly frivilous use of money.

[JEK]

i think that the laws of supply and demand are being over looked. whether we like diamonds or not, a LOT of people, myself included, do like them.
now i could go on at length about why i like diamonds, and why i would rather buy a mined diamond over a synthetic one, but i feel that it would be like arguing politics (in that no mater what someone says they NEVER change anyones mind so it is better to agree to disagree.) but i will just leave it at this for a reason; when you buy a synthetic you know you did not get the real thing.

[Pia Guerra]

The established diamond industry has a vested interest in making you think synthetic diamonds are inferior. I would recommend you read the two articles I linked to. The technology has changed dramatically. The quality has changed dramatically.

And where did this "tradition" come from? Could it be a long well-documented marketing campaign by the diamond industry? This "tradition" is relatively new.

Well that's nice the technology has changed but it's still a rock manufactured, zap! in a lab versus a stone formed naturally from high pressures over millions of years (or in some cases, more immediately from meteor strikes!) . People are just attached to the romantic imagery: the hardest natural substance on earth, it can't be scratched by anything but other diamonds, it will last forever... it's a powerful symbol.

Actually the use of wedding rings to 'seal the deal' of a marriage dates back to the ancient Greeks. Also, the act of placing an eternal circle over the venus amoris, the vein in the third finger (believed to be the closest to the heart) was considered magic, a symbol to protect the couple from outside evils.

The tradition of blessing rings at Christian wedding ceremonies goes back to the 11th century. The use of both an engagement ring and a wedding ring was begun by Pope Innocent III in the 13th century in order to establish a waiting period between engagement and the ceremony.

The introduction of attaching monetary value to the rings started around the 17th century as a way of declaring worthiness by the groom, sometimes as a dowry.

In my own family, the Finnish side, it's traditional for the bride to literally wear her value in the form of silver necklaces, belts, bracelets, rings, earrings, a crown etc. given to her by her family. That tradition has been toned down somewhat to a key piece of traditionally themed silver jewelry. My grandmother gave me a Kalevala Lightfoot bracelet for my own wedding for example. These symbols do mean a lot to those involved, and some have been abused by businesses, yes, but not in all cases.

[RickLM]

It makes no sense but its never going to change.

[jamestolliver]

The Jews!

Wait, what were we talking about?

[Jason California]

And you can buy diamonds that are Kimberley Process Certified that are guaranteed non-conflict.

I have a ring sporting a Garnet and two very small diamonds, cost us about three hundred bucks, and I love it. Some might think it looks like glass but y'know, I've got glass costume rings and there's a huge difference. Glass is pretty, but a well cut diamond is stunning. If you don't want to pay the crazy price 'tradition' recommends then don't, get something pretty instead.


I saw a special on the Discovery Channel that said this process has a lot of holes in it. I saw it on TV, so it must be true.

[Doc Randy]

Well that's nice the technology has changed but it's still a rock manufactured, zap! in a lab versus a stone formed naturally from high pressures over millions of years (or in some cases, more immediately from meteor strikes!) . People are just attached to the romantic imagery: the hardest natural substance on earth, it can't be scratched by anything but other diamonds, it will last forever... it's a powerful symbol.

Actually the use of wedding rings to 'seal the deal' of a marriage dates back to the ancient Greeks. Also, the act of placing an eternal circle over the venus amoris, the vein in the third finger (believed to be the closest to the heart) was considered magic, a symbol to protect the couple from outside evils.

The tradition of blessing rings at Christian wedding ceremonies goes back to the 11th century. The use of both an engagement ring and a wedding ring was begun by Pope Innocent III in the 13th century in order to establish a waiting period between engagement and the ceremony.

The introduction of attaching monetary value to the rings started around the 17th century as a way of declaring worthiness by the groom, sometimes as a dowry.

In my own family, the Finnish side, it's traditional for the bride to literally wear her value in the form of silver necklaces, belts, bracelets, rings, earrings, a crown etc. given to her by her family. That tradition has been toned down somewhat to a key piece of traditionally themed silver jewelry. My grandmother gave me a Kalevala Lightfoot bracelet for my own wedding for example. These symbols do mean a lot to those involved, and some have been abused by businesses, yes, but not in all cases.

The tradition of wedding/engagement rings is old. The tradition of dowry is old. The "tradition" of diamond adornments for those rings is relatively new.

[Pia Guerra]

The tradition of wedding/engagement rings is old. The tradition of dowry is old. The "tradition" of diamond adornments for those rings is relatively new.

It started in the 30s and considering the pressures of the time it made sense that women would buy into the Debeers' campaign highlighting the need for security between engagement and the wedding. It was becoming more common to have sex before marriage but if the engagement fell through, socially the woman was stuck since she was no longer a virgin and finding another man who would marry her would be very difficult.

Attitudes are turning around but there are still a good three or four generations of socialisation to go against.

[Brian Defferding]

Oh yeah... fuck gold as well.

Oh Randy. You had me, and then I saw this.

And because of that, you will die.

http://bolovsrol.ru/stuff/2008/Star-Wars-Emperor.jpg

;)

But seriously, gold will save most from poverty. Unlike diamonds.

[nick maynard]

let's mark this down as one more time that i totally agree with randyoni.

[Adrian B AWESOME]

I think Randy's jealous.

"I sell 12 comics in hardcover format for $30, why can't I buy a diamond?!"

[Adrian B AWESOME]

The tradition of wedding/engagement rings is old. The tradition of dowry is old. The "tradition" of diamond adornments for those rings is relatively new.

Yeah, everyone I know (who's hitched) just has a plain wedding ring.

Honestly, if you've got to get one that's all showy and such, you're kind of missing the point of what marriage is.

[Slewo.O]

Yeah, everyone I know (who's hitched) just has a plain wedding ring.

Honestly, if you've got to get one that's all showy and such, you're kind of missing the point of what marriage is.

But you're not showing your love if you don't get an expensive ring for your spouse. If getting a fancy ring isn't the ultimate expression of love I don't know what is. :no:

[Run-BMC]

You are ignoring my comments on the synthetic manufacturing process.

If oil could be synthetically manufactured with significantly less harm to the environment, free from any historical ties to human rights abuses, at a much lower cost and yielding a much greater value, wouldn't we have a moral obligation to switch to this cleaner, safer, better quality oil?

We now have industrial diamond "alchemy". It is a reality. It is cheaper to manufacture. It is safer. It is free of the history of human rights abuses. It is of better quality. But the economic valuation hasn't changed.

FYI - I don't like the excessive value on any precious stones or metals outside of industrial/scientific purposes.


One could argue that a PRINT of an original sketch could be done on better paper, with better inks and would last longer AND look better. Also, why put any value on a Honus Wagner rookie card when you can go ahead and print one? Human rights issues aside, I at least understand the value of the natural ones vs the artificial ones.


My wife would kill me if I bought her a diamond. Our matching wedding rings, which we only got to make our parents happy at the wedding ceremony, cost us like $30. We're not fancy metal and gem people. A good relationship and solid love needs no material symbol.

Me and my girlfriend said the EXACT same thing until I saw what I thought was the perfect engagement ring and bought it for her. It's like how I thought of cars: I always told myself that I only need something to get me from point A to point B. Until I drove a really nice car for a week.

What I'd like to see is a rich guy using the logic of not believing in diamonds as the reason not to buy a nice engagement ring for his fiancee to be. His belief should be regardless of his financial situation, and the fiancee to be should understand that, I think. But I bet you she doesn't. Not because I think she's materialistic. Not because I think she doesn't agree with his belief. And not because I think that she only wants it to show it off to her friends.

It's because ultimately it's a clearly set opportunity to do something nice for your significant other to mark a very significant event in your relationship. Who cares if it's advertising or Madmen or whatever. It's the same reason why I don't care what your girlfriend SAYS she wants or doesn't want, you're better off getting her something nice on Valentine's Day (presented by Hallmark's and See's Candies) than not.

Sometimes, nothing kills romance faster than practicality.

This might sound REALLY douche-y and faithless, but show me a person who thinks diamonds are stupid, and I'll show you someone who has never given or received one that on paper they would call ostentatious or extravagant.

ps... Also, try telling your fiancee that a court wedding is easier and cheaper than an actual wedding and reception. Tell her that as long as your love is strong, she doesn't need to show it off to other people in a lavish, ultimately-bullshit ceremony.

While I won't say EVERY woman wants a nice wedding, I will go ahead and say that there are some women who say that they don't need a fancy wedding who are LYING.

[majorjoe23]

Superman should just compress a bunch of coal into diamonds, save the kids and scientists a lot of time.

[Akira]

Me and my girlfriend said the EXACT same thing until I saw what I thought was the perfect engagement ring and bought it for her. It's like how I thought of cars: I always told myself that I only need something to get me from point A to point B. Until I drove a really nice car for a week.

What I'd like to see is a rich guy using the logic of not believing in diamonds as the reason not to buy a nice engagement ring for his fiancee to be. His belief should be regardless of his financial situation, and the fiancee to be should understand that, I think. But I bet you she doesn't. Not because I think she's materialistic. Not because I think she doesn't agree with his belief. And not because I think that she only wants it to show it off to her friends.

It's because ultimately it's a clearly set opportunity to do something nice for your significant other to mark a very significant event in your relationship. Who cares if it's advertising or Madmen or whatever. It's the same reason why I don't care what your girlfriend SAYS she wants or doesn't want, you're better off getting her something nice on Valentine's Day (presented by Hallmark's and See's Candies) than not.

Sometimes, nothing kills romance faster than practicality.

This might sound REALLY douche-y and faithless, but show me a person who thinks diamonds are stupid, and I'll show you someone who has never given or received one that on paper they would call ostentatious or extravagant.

ps... Also, try telling your fiancee that a court wedding is easier and cheaper than an actual wedding and reception. Tell her that as long as your love is strong, she doesn't need to show it off to other people in a lavish, ultimately-bullshit ceremony.

While I won't say EVERY woman wants a nice wedding, I will go ahead and say that there are some women who say that they don't need a fancy wedding who are LYING.

Thank God you're here to say the things that need said :)

[DaveCummings]

Randy, sometimes you post things that make you sound like a 18-19 year old, just out of their first semester in college, telling everybody about how materialism is wrong and stuff like that, because their professor "opened their eyes". Y'know, what Cartman referred to as the "college know it all hippies".

Sorry Randy, I had to give you some shit :)

[Doc Randy]

Randy, sometimes you post things that make you sound like a 18-19 year old, just out of their first semester in college, telling everybody about how materialism is wrong and stuff like that, because their professor "opened their eyes". Y'know, what Cartman referred to as the "college know it all hippies".

Sorry Randy, I had to give you some shit :)

Who says I'm not 18?

My rant is primarily about the artificial valuation of a gem than can now be mass produced with superior quality and with less cost. If you read the first couple articles I posted (and there are plenty more out there), they have reached a point where the "synthetic" diamonds can be completely indistinguishable from a "natural" diamond.

The question remains, if we develop industrial alchemy and can mass produce gold in a cheaper, less destructive manner, would mined gold retain its value? If so, why? It is the exact same chemical compound. It looks the same. It weighs the same. Why would the product born of environmental destruction still be valued more? Why would any gold, "synthetic" or "natural" still retain the expensive designation of precious or rare metal?

Logic would dictate that increased supply coupled with static demand would dramatically lower costs of the raw material. Why not diamonds?

[DaveCummings]

Who says I'm not 18?

My rant is primarily about the artificial valuation of a gem than can now be mass produced with superior quality and with less cost. If you read the first couple articles I posted (and there are plenty more out there), they have reached a point where the "synthetic" diamonds can be completely indistinguishable from a "natural" diamond.

The question remains, if we develop industrial alchemy and can mass produce gold in a cheaper, less destructive manner, would mined gold retain its value? If so, why? It is the exact same chemical compound. It looks the same. It weighs the same. Why would the product born of environmental destruction still be valued more? Why would any gold, "synthetic" or "natural" still retain the expensive designation of precious or rare metal?

Logic would dictate that increased supply coupled with static demand would dramatically lower costs of the raw material. Why not diamonds?

Oh I know, and I agree with you. I was just giving you shit, because this and the threads where you rant about rich people buying something overly extravagant make you sound like people I went to school with. Only, you actually go into detail about it and not pretty much go "um...yeah...that's not good dude, materialism is bad karma..my professor opened my eyes".

[Black Roman]

I'm not even gonna read the post, I'm just gonna say that I agree with this statement.

[Doc Randy]

One could argue that a PRINT of an original sketch could be done on better paper, with better inks and would last longer AND look better. Also, why put any value on a Honus Wagner rookie card when you can go ahead and print one? Human rights issues aside, I at least understand the value of the natural ones vs the artificial ones.

The Honus Wagner card is a product, not a raw material. As such, valuation is based on scarcity of the product and the historical significance.

Raw diamonds are just a raw material. I would imagine some cut diamonds would remain expensive due to their unusual size, craftsmanship, or historical significance (like the Hope Diamond), but raw diamonds shouldn't. As has been pointed out, some of these synthesized diamonds are indistinguishable from the "natural" ones.





Sometimes, nothing kills romance faster than practicality.

I'd argue that financial hardship and irresponsible money management can kill a romance faster. I have known too many people in my life who spent way more than they could afford on engagement/wedding rings. Most of those people felt obligated to do so as if it was expected. Many of them ended up divorced.




This might sound REALLY douche-y and faithless, but show me a person who thinks diamonds are stupid, and I'll show you someone who has never given or received one that on paper they would call ostentatious or extravagant.

By all means, do something nice for someone. But nobody should limit themselves into believing that shiny rocks and metals are the ultimate expression of love. Give something of real value, not artificially manipulated value. Surprise your loved one with a trip to Paris or New Zealand or Tierra del Fuego, or wherever they long to go. Enrich your life with shared experience and knowledge. It is far better than a shiny rock.



ps... Also, try telling your fiancee that a court wedding is easier and cheaper than an actual wedding and reception. Tell her that as long as your love is strong, she doesn't need to show it off to other people in a lavish, ultimately-bullshit ceremony.

While I won't say EVERY woman wants a nice wedding, I will go ahead and say that there are some women who say that they don't need a fancy wedding who are LYING.

We wanted a court wedding. Our parents fought us on it and we gave in and agreed to a small fun wedding.

[ClintP]

Most bizarre rant ever.

[Generic Poster]

Normally, I don't really care about people wasting their money on dumb shit. However, as Randy pointed out, the diamond industry has a long history of human rights abuses.

Also, I had a DeBiers in my dorm my first year of college (you were required to live in campus housing your first year). He brought a Bentley with him to school.

[xyzzy]

High quality synthetic diamonds are a relatively recent phenomenon, so your outrage seems little premature.

[Generic Poster]

High quality synthetic diamonds are a relatively recent phenomenon, so your outrage seems little premature.

I dunno. Fake diamonds that are indistinguishable except under a microscope have been available for well over a decade.

[mario]

Hey don't you be dissing one of my country's biggest export products!!! grr!!

[maverick-99]

let me start by saying that i think diamonds are stupid. Yes, they have their place in industry and science, but diamonds as jewelry is a stupid concept. In fact, i think almost all forms of precious metals and gems used for jewelry and adornment are idiotic. They represent some sort of idiotic fascination with bright shiny useless object. Add to that the horrific history of diamond cartels, imperialism in africa, and human rights abuses, and i think anybody that spends any money of diamonds are fools.

The fact that diamonds can be manufactured via industrial processes these days makes the entire industry even more of a sad sad sham.

Just today, yahoo ran an article about how even bigger better flawless diamonds can be mass produced. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/scientistsgrowbiggerbetterdiamonds)

wired magazine (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html?pg=1) did a nice piece a while back on synthetic diamonds as well.

So if we can just make them in a lab, if we can manufacture them to be bigger and of better quality than we can mine them, why the fuck do people keep spending absurd amounts of money and resources on these stupid idiotic gems that do absolutely nothing but look shiny?

Seriously, what the fuck? Why the hell does anybody want one?

Just seems like some silly primitive bullshit to me.

Oh yeah... Fuck gold as well.

sounds like someone is bitter that he's too poor to impress his lady......

[SMACK!]

Bump

[WillieLee]

Bump

Why? Are you trying to have a showdown between rant threads?

[SMACK!]

Thought it'd be funny to start resurrecting random threads.

[HeartlessNinny]

You are missing the point. Diamonds can be mass produced and these "artificial diamonds" are actually easier to make, less harmful to the planet, involve less human rights abuses, and are actually of superior quality.

You would think that would drive the costs down, right? Unlimited supply. Static demand.

But no... people still pay absurd amounts for these useless shiny rocks.

I can point to tons of materialistic things and show that they serve some utilitarian function. What function do diamonds serve (outside of industrial or scientific uses)?

I'm with you man. The human rights issues alone are a good enough reason never to buy a diamond. I don't think it's all that likely I'll ever get married, but if some kind of miracle happens, I wouldn't buy diamonds for my fiancee. I'd find it morally objectionable.