Terminator: Season 2 premiere!

[Sarcastro]

A solid episode last night.

Plus...seeing Richard Schiff, who I think is a fantastic actor, make an appearance was so many kinds of awesome.

[J. Wilson]

I can't believe no one else is astounded by the stupidity of

the BSG chick. She shoots the old Charlie Fisher? What an idiot! Shoot the younger one and you solve that particular problem...DUH!!!

[ClintP]

I just don't get why Ellison would think any good would come from giving a robot from the future to anyone in the present as a way of understanding them. He must be from planet stupid. The longer something from the future exists in the past, the better chance it has of existing in the first place.

[T-Dro]

I can't believe no one else is astounded by the stupidity of...

You're totally right...pretty much everyone was acting like an idiot in this episode.

And I felt a little like I was watching two different shows spliced together...the Connor family plotline, and the Jesse and Derek plotline. I really want to see Sarah meet Jesse... I'm hoping Sarah kicks her ass. :twisted:

[ClintP]

Yeah, the fact that Derrick doesn't think he should tell the Conners about Jesse is good enough reason to distrust her. That is before we saw folders with stalker pics of John.

[ClintP]

.

[WinterRose]

Very cool that they got the full 22 ep p/u. Not cool that it's being shipped out to it's Friday coffin slot.

They're moving it to the Friday Slot of Doom? What the fuck?? Are they TRYING to get worse ratings? How many shows have died in that slot on Fox now anyway? Certainly more than I care to remember. And certainly a lot of them that would have fared better elsewhere.

[WinterRose]

Wait, I'm skipping the posts of this thread because of spoilers, but soooooooo...you guys would recommend this show? First season's on blu-ray, and I'm jonesing for some decent sci-fi. How would you guys rate it? It's not Dawson's Creek with robots, is it? Or does it have that Smallville vibe, promoting some musical artist and song of the week during the end credits?

Ohhh no. There's really NOT a teen show vibe going on here. This is full on merciless Terminator movie plotting. The only musical interesting-ness here is the same kind that Bear McCreary occasionally does. Like when he did that version of All Along the Watchtower for Battlestar Galactica. The use of Johnny Cash for the end of season one was brilliant.

McCreary got into composing soundtracks based on the music from the original Terminator movies. Now he's come full circle and writes for the show, using both his own themes, as well as strategic use of the music cues we all know from the older movies. Nothing brings a quick feeling of menace to a moment in the show like that merciless terminator drumbeat or bit of synth they used to use for the T-1000.

[LeggoMyEggolas]

They're moving it to the Friday Slot of Doom? What the fuck?? Are they TRYING to get worse ratings? How many shows have died in that slot on Fox now anyway? Certainly more than I care to remember. And certainly a lot of them that would have fared better elsewhere.

May not necessarily be a bad thing. With the economy the way it is, people may gravitate toward a Friday night of TV escapism. Paired with Whedon's Dollhouse, just might work.

[greg donovan]

May not necessarily be a bad thing. With the economy the way it is, people may gravitate toward a Friday night of TV escapism. Paired with Whedon's Dollhouse, just might work.

plus with DVRs i think that fox and dodge are aware that it really doesnt matter when the show is on.

[greg donovan]

I can't believe no one else is astounded by the stupidity of

the BSG chick. She shoots the old Charlie Fisher? What an idiot! Shoot the younger one and you solve that particular problem...DUH!!!

i'm not.

i think has a very different agenda than the rest of the Connor Clan.

[WinterRose]

May not necessarily be a bad thing. With the economy the way it is, people may gravitate toward a Friday night of TV escapism. Paired with Whedon's Dollhouse, just might work.

Maybe. I dunno. Fox Friday just seems to have this stigma about it. If there's a block where your show is going to get beheaded, Friday Primetime on Fox seems to be where it happens. Used to be they'd stick a show there right before X-Files as a lead in. People were going to watch X-Files, so they figured, lead in with the show we want to establish a fan base for. To see if they'll watch it before X-Files runs. Putting it after doesn't work cos they just tune out afterward.

The only show I remember that did reasonably well in that slot was Millennium, which ran for 2 good years, and one really bad one when Chris Carter lost his nerve, got rid of the guys doing it right and tried to turn it into X-Files: Y2K Apocalypse. The rest? Gosh... there's this thing they did when they brought back Family Guy from being cancelled where Peter runs down a list of shows that have been cancelled on Fox already. I'd lay even money that a third to half of them ended on Fox Friday. There were even ones there I remembered that didn't make Peter's list. Stuff like V.R.5 and Strange Luck.

Has Fox announced that when Dollhouse comes in at Midseason that they're sticking it on Fridays? I'd be PISSED if I were Joss and they put me on Friday. Though I'd put nothing past em. There's no action, sci-fi or fantasy concept so good that Fox cannot thoroughly obscure, pre-empt, or kill interest in through inept mismanagement and scheduling.

[Foolish Mortal]

plus with DVRs i think that fox and dodge are aware that it really doesnt matter when the show is on.
DVRs have been around for a few years now. Why haven't they helped other shows on Friday nights?

They didn't do 'Friday Night Lights' any good. They didn't help 'Life' any.

Friday night is a ratings black hole. If Fox puts those shows on Friday night, they're dead.

[Dreaded Anomaly]

Jesse is one cold-hearted bitch.

The Cameron/Riley rivalry just became a whole lot creepier on both sides.

This show has seriously stepped up this season. I was doubting it at the beginning, but no longer.

[artimoff]

That ending was creepy. John Henry is an amazing idea.

[MabusRex]

I still will never understand why you'd delivery a robot from the future (that's tried to kill you) to your company that you at the very least suspect is working on AI...

Warning signs...failing...

[ClintP]

I still will never understand why you'd delivery a robot from the future (that's tried to kill you) to your company that you at the very least suspect is working on AI...

Warning signs...failing...

No kidding. For a guy who knows how things will happen, he sure seems to be wanting to help it get there faster. I can only think he assumes he will be able to shift things from happening, but all it will take to remove him is a firing or his death...

[Hurnslice]

No kidding. For a guy who knows how things will happen, he sure seems to be wanting to help it get there faster. I can only think he assumes he will be able to shift things from happening, but all it will take to remove him is a firing or his death...

I'm banking on Ellison fulfulling the Pontius Pilot role in a biblical sense.

Derek must really love Jesse. Hell, I'm pretty hot on her. But I don't believe a word she's saying. Though, I think she hates the metal more than anyone.

I also like how Riley is about 10 seconds away from completely snapping. She's almost on a Glen Close level of crazy.

[Akira]

Just catching up on last week's episode. I'm pretty sure this is the best dramatic show on network TV right now.

[greg donovan]

I still will never understand why you'd delivery a robot from the future (that's tried to kill you) to your company that you at the very least suspect is working on AI...

Warning signs...failing...

maybe he thinks he can make a difference from the inside?

perhaps shape the AI so that it doesnt result in the destrcution of mankind.

[TheNatureRoy]

I hadn't checked this thread until now, but I'm glad others are enjoying the show too.

However, just like in show, I'm haunted by understanding the gloomy future before it comes -- that this show is unlikely to get a third season.

[Dr. Hackenbush]

Ellison is largely still in the dark. He took this job with the premise of getting answers about these "future robots" and seemed to be under the impression that the person he would be working for had the same goal. For all he knows, the AI they're working with is to combat the threat of the terminators.

He's probably just now starting to realize that maybe he signed on for more than he bargained for.

[ClintP]

I wonder if Ellison's role with John Henry will be the piece that makes the Terminators have a difference of opinion in regards to the war and humans. We saw some of that with the little bit of Cameron's origin despite the human Cameron getting her neck snapped.

I also liked the little nod in the last episode regarding it being possible to get a copy of someone's memories and store it. I might have said that wrong, but it seemed to be a precursor to Cameron.

[Hurnslice]

I wonder if Ellison's role with John Henry will be the piece that makes the Terminators have a difference of opinion in regards to the war and humans. We saw some of that with the little bit of Cameron's origin despite the human Cameron getting her neck snapped.

I also liked the little nod in the last episode regarding it being possible to get a copy of someone's memories and store it. I might have said that wrong, but it seemed to be a precursor to Cameron.

I think John Henry is going to create a split within skynet.

one good, one bad.

[greg donovan]

I think John Henry is going to create a split within skynet.

one good, one bad.

i agree. cant wait 'till the kids go to bed so i can watch tonights episode.

[artimoff]

No one has watched this yet? What an amazing strange episode. I love what they're doing with Cameron.

[LeggoMyEggolas]

No one has watched this yet? What an amazing strange episode. I love what they're doing with Cameron.

It was a really good episode IMHO. I didn't post last night as I was formulating the vitriol I was going to unleash on the Heroes thread after that BS last night. I found it funny that the T-888 in this at certain angles looked like Dave Matthews :D

[ClintP]

Yeah, that was an odd episode. My guess is that they are introducing a new character in that governor or something. I can't see how else they would make the stand alone character.

I really need to take some donuts along when I try to bribe someone...

[Akira]

I missed the very beginning, did they explain why Cameron was going to the hall of records? Was she following up on a specific lead, or just doing some standard info gathering?

[ClintP]

I missed the very beginning, did they explain why Cameron was going to the hall of records? Was she following up on a specific lead, or just doing some standard info gathering?

I think standard info gathering since they never really said.

[greg donovan]

it would appear that cameron is aware of her "flaw" and not entirely pleased about it.

the three dots also seem to be a reference to the stars cameron used to calculate the date. interesting to see how that is used in the future.

i am really digging this show a lot right now.

[ClintP]

I thought it was funny that Cameron dropped lots of hints of things she could do to the poor librarian guy and he never really caught on. Like looking at the microfish, weighing him as she carried him, and measuring and dropping advanced science lingo regarding the heavenly bodies.

[Generic Poster]

I thought it was funny that Cameron dropped lots of hints of things she could do to the poor librarian guy and he never really caught on. Like looking at the microfish, weighing him as she carried him, and measuring and dropping advanced science lingo regarding the heavenly bodies.

Well, jumping to the conclusion that she is actually a robot from the future would be a bit of a stretch.

[greg donovan]

Well, jumping to the conclusion that she is actually a robot from the future would be a bit of a stretch.

but he didnt seem to ask a lot of questions either.

[ClintP]

Well, jumping to the conclusion that she is actually a robot from the future would be a bit of a stretch.

Yeah, I am just surprised he never asked, "how can you do/know all this?" I guess her cuteness factor bypassed his reasoning circuits.

[greg donovan]

Yeah, I am just surprised he never asked, "how can you do/know all this?" I guess her cuteness factor bypassed his reasoning circuits.

i was watching Escape From Planet of the Apes the other day and when Zira said that they were apes from Earth's future one character just nodded and said sure. in his mind that was the only logical explaination for two talking chimpanzees. it was pretty cool to see. i think i would look at it the same way. here are two giant talking chimps that claim they are from the future. why the hell not? they are allready talking.

[Akira]

the three dots also seem to be a reference to the stars cameron used to calculate the date. interesting to see how that is used in the future.

Damn, you're right. I didn't even think about that. Good catch!

[Generic Poster]

i was watching Escape From Planet of the Apes the other day and when Zira said that they were apes from Earth's future one character just nodded and said sure. in his mind that was the only logical explaination for two talking chimpanzees. it was pretty cool to see. i think i would look at it the same way. here are two giant talking chimps that claim they are from the future. why the hell not? they are allready talking.

Something I've always liked about From Dusk 'til Dawn was the way they immedialely conclude they're dealing with vampires. I hate in vampire movies where it's like people have never hear of vampires before.

[ClintP]

Damn, you're right. I didn't even think about that. Good catch!

Yeah, I caught that as well. I wonder if the dots on the wall are a specific time period for something with that company or what ever takes place.

[Akira]

Something I've always liked about From Dusk 'til Dawn was the way they immedialely conclude they're dealing with vampires. I hate in vampire movies where it's like people have never hear of vampires before.

"They were vampires. Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are!"

my favorite line in the movie :lol:

[Arion]

Well, jumping to the conclusion that she is actually a robot from the future would be a bit of a stretch.

Not for hard core sci fi fans.

[Hurnslice]

it would appear that cameron is aware of her "flaw" and not entirely pleased about it.

the three dots also seem to be a reference to the stars cameron used to calculate the date. interesting to see how that is used in the future.

i am really digging this show a lot right now.

I totally missed that also. It would be funny if the writers (or the effects guy) hadn't intended it either. But I'm sure they did.

I think I heard somewhere the 3 dots thing concludeds in a few episodes. It'll have run its course by then.



Yeah, I am just surprised he never asked, "how can you do/know all this?" I guess her cuteness factor bypassed his reasoning circuits.

I think the throwaway line of dialog, "You're a nice person," was geared for that. I'd just chalk it up to him being stoked to hanging with Cameron and getting donuts. You just gotta let some crazy shit go.


My final thought is that this was a Terminator: Cold Case! episode. But, y'know, better than any Cold Case show, ever. (not that I've ever watched CC, on a Friday, all by myself...)

[Akira]

My final thought is that this was a Terminator: Cold Case! episode. But, y'know, better than any Cold Case show, ever except for the Rocky Horror episode.
Fixed. ;)

[Busman]

I found it annoying. So now Terminators can, accidentally, go way back? This was the holodeck episode. They've thrown everything out the door. Yeah, sure, it was an accident. And the contrived BS of the entire timeline being right there for them to discover, in one night. I enjoyed the chance to explore Cameron more, but I didn't really enjoy the errant time travel thing. I mean, the T-888 is smart enough to devise a plan to take out a guy in 2010 when he landed in 1920, but not smart enough to think, hey, let's kill John Connor's relatives before they knew there was anything up? Double lame.

[Generic Poster]

Has there ever been an explanation for how far back in time they can go? I guess the machine's overall desire not to wipe themselves from existance as well prevents them from going too far back.

[greg donovan]

I found it annoying. So now Terminators can, accidentally, go way back? This was the holodeck episode. They've thrown everything out the door. Yeah, sure, it was an accident. And the contrived BS of the entire timeline being right there for them to discover, in one night. I enjoyed the chance to explore Cameron more, but I didn't really enjoy the errant time travel thing. I mean, the T-888 is smart enough to devise a plan to take out a guy in 2010 when he landed in 1920, but not smart enough to think, hey, let's kill John Connor's relatives before they knew there was anything up? Double lame.

it is my understanding that the 888s cant really deviate from their programming to well. so its mission was to attack the mayor and that was all it was going to do.

time travel is best if you dont think too hard about it.

[Akira]

it is my understanding that the 888s cant really deviate from their programming to well. so its mission was to attack the mayor and that was all it was going to do.

Just like that 888 in season one who didn't even know John Conner was in that timeline until he saw him. They have a main mission and killing John Conner (if the opportunity directly presents itself) is a subcommand.

[Generic Poster]

it is my understanding that the 888s cant really deviate from their programming to well. so its mission was to attack the mayor and that was all it was going to do.

time travel is best if you dont think too hard about it.

Also, are the terminators all programed with the Connor's genealogical data going back to the 1300s or something?

[Busman]

Also, are the terminators all programed with the Connor's genealogical data going back to the 1300s or something?

They're resourceful enough to drive a guy completely out of business because they accidentally killed the guy that built the building that they needed to build but not enough to do some research into who John Connor's relatives are?

[Akira]

They're resourceful enough to drive a guy completely out of business because they accidentally killed the guy that built the building that they needed to build but not enough to do some research into who John Connor's relatives are?

Assassinating the Mayor in that building was its mission. Killing John Conner wasn't.

[Busman]

Assassinating the Mayor in that building was its mission. Killing John Conner wasn't.

As they've already shown us, John Connor is always a target of opportunity. This was clearly an anomaly and chance to do something that previously was unavailable to them. They've gone after John and Sarah before John was born. It's not much of a stretch to go after any one of the many ancestors before that which they hadn't had before this error.

PS: Damn, this thread on this sweater just keeps going...

[Generic Poster]

They're resourceful enough to drive a guy completely out of business because they accidentally killed the guy that built the building that they needed to build but not enough to do some research into who John Connor's relatives are?

How is he supposed to research the relatives of someone born in 1990 (or whatever) in 1920?

[Akira]

As they've already shown us, John Connor is always a target of opportunity. This was clearly an anomaly and chance to do something that previously was unavailable to them. They've gone after John and Sarah before John was born. It's not much of a stretch to go after any one of the many ancestors before that which they hadn't had before this error.

Which brings us to...


Also, are the terminators all programed with the Connor's genealogical data going back to the 1300s or something?

[Generic Poster]

Which brings us to...

And also, the fact that killing Yeoman Connor in 1338 might have unintended ripple effects that would also keep Skynet from ever being created.

[Akira]

And also, the fact that killing Yeoman Connor in 1338 might have unintended ripple effects that would also keep Skynet from ever being created.

fo' sho'

[Busman]

Which brings us to...

I had thought this fell under the intelligent enough to come up with alternate plans. This episode showed us that Terminators are able to do research.

[Busman]

And also, the fact that killing Yeoman Connor in 1338 might have unintended ripple effects that would also keep Skynet from ever being created.

Yeah, I'm willing to concede this is a possible point. But the same could be said of killing Sarah or John too soon or any of the other many people that they have smoked or changed. I mean seriously, having a t-1000 running a company has to have some pretty big implications.

[PatrickA]

really good episode.

I found it amusing that the t-888 was supposed to kill the governor of California. Who, in real life of course, is arnold.

[Akira]

Yeah, I'm willing to concede this is a possible point. But the same could be said of killing Sarah or John too soon or any of the other many people that they have smoked or changed. I mean seriously, having a t-1000 running a company has to have some pretty big implications.

I think Shirley Manson was sent back by "John Henry"'s "good" SkyNet to help ensure it's creation.

[ClintP]

really good episode.

I found it amusing that the t-888 was supposed to kill the governor of California. Who, in real life of course, is arnold.

I smirked when the news record had the guy telling the audience what was being said between the t-888 and the construction guy's rep. The rep said that their company has been around a long time and will still be the leader going into the future and the t-888's response was, "we'll see." That seemed like a very Arnold thing to say.

[ClintP]

So what is everyone's theories regarding Riley and the BSG gal? Are they just trying to make sure John doesn't get weak for the "metal" or something? Is Riley just a hero worshiper who is trying to get it on with the hero when he was her age?

[Generic Poster]

Are they just trying to make sure John doesn't get weak for the "metal" or something?

I think that's what BSG girl has told Riley, anyway. That she's supposed to get close to John and make sure he distrusts Cameron. I'm not sure if that's BSG's actual agenda or not.

[Busman]

How is he supposed to research the relatives of someone born in 1990 (or whatever) in 1920?

I missed this post the first time. :lol: good one. You have a golden fucking point on this one.

I concede.

The time travel shit still bugged me.

[Hurnslice]

I'm with you, Busman.

I wasn't feeling this show either. In fact, I looked up around the 3/4 mark to check the time and was wondering just where the show was going.

And in the end, the answer seems to be 'nowhere'.

[artimoff]

I wasn't feeling this show either. In fact, I looked up around the 3/4 mark to check the time and was wondering just where the show was going.

And in the end, the answer seems to be 'nowhere'.

Until the character Cameron saved shows up.

[Hurnslice]

Until the character Cameron saved shows up.

Yeah, they are going to have to make that guy come back.

It'd also be cool if Eric showed up somewhere, healthy, because of Cameron's insistance.
It'd be trippy if he was an old Future Fighter.

[Generic Poster]

My initial thoughts:

1. I didn't like the quick switch from last week's character who was too slow in believing in robots to characters believing in robots too fast.

2. Why didn't they give Reese a hazmat suit?

[Generic Poster]

No one but me watched this?

[Doug O]

I watched it but got interrupted by a phone call. Mostly just confused. I thought it was a little schmaltzy with the mom suddenly being dead.

[PeteL]

My DVR was full, and I realized halfway through the episode. Only caught the last 1/2, wasn't quite sure what was going on.

[Akira]

My initial thoughts:

1. I didn't like the quick switch from last week's character who was too slow in believing in robots to characters believing in robots too fast.

Well to be fair, library guy never saw a cyborg, these guys had one chasing them and one fighting it off.

[Deej]

It was okay.

Hopefully next week with the Fall Finale, they ramp things up a lot!

[Generic Poster]

Well to be fair, library guy never saw a cyborg, these guys had one chasing them and one fighting it off.

They didn't really see anything that ruled out more rational explanations (like meth addict or whatever) until the dad went out there and saw he was all metal-faced and whatnot.

[greg donovan]

it was an ok episode, but not my favorite.

[ClintP]

They didn't really see anything that ruled out more rational explanations (like meth addict or whatever) until the dad went out there and saw he was all metal-faced and whatnot.

Plus something threw a body into the house from far away. When I start seeing flying bodies and no car accidents nearby, I will start believing the unbelievable.

[Hurnslice]

My initial thoughts:

2. Why didn't they give Reese a hazmat suit?

It seemed like Derek had a long way to go. The hazmat suits looked pretty bulky.


It was okay.

Hopefully next week with the Fall Finale, they ramp things up a lot!

Agree.


They didn't really see anything that ruled out more rational explanations (like meth addict or whatever) until the dad went out there and saw he was all metal-faced and whatnot.

The dad was into some underhanded & "illegal" stuff. He may have thought the Terminator was someone else coming for him.

[ClintP]

I really like how this show keeps tossing in things where the future person is helping someone they know of in the past and the past person is new to all this. Then they show how the future person knows then in the future, and you have the past person knowing the future person while the original future person is a present person and is just now meeting them for the first time.

The person in the past will have them one upped the next time they meet.

[Generic Poster]

I think it's weird that Sarah doesn't ever consider the possibility that "saving" John (i.e., preventing Judgment Day) will actually erase him from existence.

Regarding Cameron flying through the window, it looked like that terminator threw her about 3/4 of a mile. That was impressive.

[Generic Poster]

It seemed like Derek had a long way to go. The hazmat suits looked pretty bulky.

He could have carried it. Or they could have split it up among two people, and then just sent one in. Going on a suicide mission rather than bringing a disease-proof suit because it was kind of heavy seems like a weird decision.

[ClintP]

I think it's weird that Sarah doesn't ever consider the possibility that "saving" John (i.e., preventing Judgment Day) will actually erase him from existence.

Regarding Cameron flying through the window, it looked like that terminator threw her about 3/4 of a mile. That was impressive.

Sarah must not have seen Back to the Future.

[Hurnslice]

He could have carried it. Or they could have split it up among two people, and then just sent one in. Going on a suicide mission rather than bringing a disease-proof suit because it was kind of heavy seems like a weird decision.

I think it was a suicide mission. That was when Derek was going to kill himself and then met Jessie. He may have had no intention of coming back. Actually, I'm pretty sure of it. He was told just before he left to forget about ever seeing his brother alive.

I liked his line to Jessie after he got the antivirus.

[Generic Poster]

I think it was a suicide mission. That was when Derek was going to kill himself and then met Jessie. He may have had no intention of coming back. Actually, I'm pretty sure of it. He was told just before he left to forget about ever seeing his brother alive.

I liked his line to Jessie after he got the antivirus.

That's all true, but I'm saying it was a dumb tactical decision on the part of the human resistance. Trusting a suicidal/terminally ill person to escort a teenager who happens to be your only hope of survival back across miles of enemy territory does not seem smart.

[Hurnslice]

That's all true, but I'm saying it was a dumb tactical decision on the part of the human resistance. Trusting a suicidal/terminally ill person to escort a teenager who happens to be your only hope of survival back across miles of enemy territory does not seem smart.

To be fair, they didn't know Cindy had the resistant gene. They just knew it was a bunker of dead people that maybe contained Derek's brother. And that someone was still alive but sure they were going to die anyway.

And really, Derek was acting like a basket case.

The entire show, to me, was about Derek finding new life - in Jessie and in saving the baby that would one day save him.

The other stuff - though touted as the A story, was really a distraction.

In that way, it's pretty impressive.

[ClintP]

That's all true, but I'm saying it was a dumb tactical decision on the part of the human resistance. Trusting a suicidal/terminally ill person to escort a teenager who happens to be your only hope of survival back across miles of enemy territory does not seem smart.

I agree with Hurn on this stuff. Also, like Derek said, do you really want to trust Metal to not kill the survivor? If it was a suicide mission, who else to send than a suicidal person?

[Hurnslice]

I agree with Hurn on this stuff.

I'm gonna put that in my pipe and then smoke it!

[Dreaded Anomaly]

I think it's weird that Sarah doesn't ever consider the possibility that "saving" John (i.e., preventing Judgment Day) will actually erase him from existence.

That's not how time travel works in the Terminator-verse. If it were, stopping Skynet would eliminate the reason for people to have gone to the past, so then Skynet wouldn't be stopped, etc.: a grandfather paradox.

Instead, they use the model of causality being disconnected from time, so once you go back in time, you're there no matter how the future changes. This is why Derek and Jesse have some different memories of the future, since they come from different futures.

[Scotty]

That's not how time travel works in the Terminator-verse. If it were, stopping Skynet would eliminate the reason for people to have gone to the past, so then Skynet wouldn't be stopped, etc.: a grandfather paradox.

Instead, they use the model of causality being disconnected from time, so once you go back in time, you're there no matter how the future changes. This is why Derek and Jesse have some different memories of the future, since they come from different futures.

Hit the head on the nail =)

[ClintP]

That's not how time travel works in the Terminator-verse. If it were, stopping Skynet would eliminate the reason for people to have gone to the past, so then Skynet wouldn't be stopped, etc.: a grandfather paradox.

Instead, they use the model of causality being disconnected from time, so once you go back in time, you're there no matter how the future changes. This is why Derek and Jesse have some different memories of the future, since they come from different futures.

I was trying to think of a way to say all of this, so thanks. :)

You used some pretty big lingo in there. I didn't know those terms for time travel existed, so kudos for being a bigger nerd. :)

[Deej]

I really like how this show keeps tossing in things where the future person is helping someone they know of in the past and the past person is new to all this. Then they show how the future person knows then in the future, and you have the past person knowing the future person while the original future person is a present person and is just now meeting them for the first time.

The person in the past will have them one upped the next time they meet.

Can I vote for this as most awesomest sentence in the Bendis Board Awards?

[Busman]

I'm calling this another "Heroes" episode this week, two in a row. It's a little unfair since we got some good character development for Derek, but it's dribs and drabs. They should have combined 2 weeks ago and this week and eliminated last week. Tighten up the damned graphics on level 3 already.

[Hurnslice]

Can I vote for this as most awesomest sentence in the Bendis Board Awards?

Second!


I'm calling this another "Heroes" episode this week, two in a row. It's a little unfair since we got some good character development for Derek, but it's dribs and drabs. They should have combined 2 weeks ago and this week and eliminated last week. Tighten up the damned graphics on level 3 already.


I wouldn't quite go so far as Heroes. I literally, and in all seriousness, can't watch it anymore.

I think this last show was better than the Self Made Man ep. I'm not opposed to the done in one eps. But they haven't been as good as the main eps, for sure.

[Busman]

I wouldn't quite go so far as Heroes. I literally, and in all seriousness, can't watch it anymore.

Oh, neither can I. I powered through the end of season 2 and just said, enough is enough. I would say that if Terminator goes down this route it would be Heroes. If they keep making episodes like these last few, then I'll be done with it. Especially the 1920s one, Jesus.

The series isn't going to last forever, stop fucking dripping 30 seconds of large plot advancement into every episode. Pick an end date and work towards it. All of the best serialized series have done this. Lost learned this lesson. Bab5 never had this problem because they chose from the beginning. The Shield, yum. Commit!

[Hurnslice]

Oh, neither can I. I powered through the end of season 2 and just said, enough is enough. I would say that if Terminator goes down this route it would be Heroes. If they keep making episodes like these last few, then I'll be done with it. Especially the 1920s one, Jesus.

The series isn't going to last forever, stop fucking dripping 30 seconds of large plot advancement into every episode. Pick an end date and work towards it. All of the best serialized series have done this. Lost learned this lesson. Bab5 never had this problem because they chose from the beginning. The Shield, yum. Commit!

From what I understand of it, Josh Friedman had clear goals for at least 4 seasons. Then, of course, the studio jumped in and demanded done in one eps and even the creation of Riley for Season 2. (this all gleamed from SDCC - I went both years).

Sometimes you have to play the game and do what the money tells you to do. Hopefully, the writers are aware of what did and didn't work for the one offs and will correct them if they do more.

It worked for X-Files and I think it can work here.

Self Made Man really bugged me.

[Doc Randy]

I just finished the last episode of 2008 and have to say, I love this show. I literally have no idea where they are going with this, but I'm along for the ride.

[greg donovan]

I just finished the last episode of 2008 and have to say, I love this show. I literally have no idea where they are going with this, but I'm along for the ride.

i thought it was pretty good too.

i like how they really havent been too specific on who the "her" is that riley is supposed to keep john away from. it could be either sarah or cameron.

[artimoff]

i thought it was pretty good too.

i like how they really havent been too specific on who the "her" is that riley is supposed to keep john away from. it could be either sarah or cameron.


It's Cameron. They said it in an earlier episode.

[artimoff]

I hope Riley isn't dead. She's too cute to die. But I'm betting she is.

[noble]

So call me crazy but that was an advanced version of the Hunter Killer flying about Sarah at the end there wasn't it?

[ClintP]

That looked like a Hunter Killer to me, or at least the technology that enables it to hover etc.

Also, I am betting Riley is dead and John is going to be pissed even more at Jesse once he learns about her. Despite Jesse's misgivings about having more "metal" around, John still has a bigger heart than anyone really suspects, and despite the time and manner that Derick grew up with, John has had to face not only the same shit, but before it happened, he and his mother were both constant targets, on the run, and had no one to believe in them.

So fuck any future John haters. That poor bastard and his mom have gone through more than any other person in the future, and the fact that he still cares about people, is more than anyone else can say.

[Deej]

My thoughts on last night's show was this...

Huh? Is that a girl or a guy?

I think it's a guy...has manly features..

Wait, i think that's supposed to be a girl...long hair. Does he/she have any breasts?

I don't really see breasts on this...but Sarah isn't questioning him/her. Must be a chick.

Damn...that is really one ugly freaky chick. The face and hands totally look like a man. But Sarah hasn't brought anything up...so it must be female.

AH-HAH! It is a man!! I knew it. Damn...what a freak!!!

He/she is dead... Good!

[ClintP]

Did he claim to be a man living as a woman? I think the actor was really a woman though and I think I have seen her in something else.

[Deej]

Did he claim to be a man living as a woman? I think the actor was really a woman though and I think I have seen her in something else.

If that was really a woman signed on to be a man pretending to be a woman...then I'm totally freaked out!!! What a freak!

[Deej]

And yes, it was supposed to be a man on the show. His name was Alan

[ClintP]

And yes, it was supposed to be a man on the show. His name was Andy/Andrew.

So that makes two Andy's who were responsible for stuff that leads to Terminators? The rebels need to go back and kill all Andys...

[Deej]

Actually...that part was played by Dinah Lenney...so it really is an actress!! *barf*

And my mistake, it was Alan Park/Eileen

[Marc Lombardi]

Actually...that part was played by Dinah Lenney...so it really is an actress!! *barf*
Wasn't she on Star Trek or something like that?

[Kenobi Fei-Hung]

As much as I LOVE this show, I think it's doomed. You don't put it on Friday nights expecting it to be picked up again.

I hope the writers/production team at least have it end on somewhat of a 'finished' note.

And here's my question. I know there are tons of rights issues and stuff. But let's say T:SCC gets cancelled. Couldn't Sci-Fi channel pick it up? Why can there be a zillion Stargate series but this couldn't continue? You can't tell me Stargate would get better ratings than T:SCC if it was on network television.

I know cost would be an issue, but it's not like there are tons of special effects in every T:SCC episode.

I'm just ranting because I'm frustrated this series is probably coming to an end. Maybe if Salvation is a huge hit, T:SCC will get brought back somewhere.

[Hurnslice]

And here's my question. I know there are tons of rights issues and stuff. But let's say T:SCC gets cancelled. Couldn't Sci-Fi channel pick it up? Why can there be a zillion Stargate series but this couldn't continue? You can't tell me Stargate would get better ratings than T:SCC if it was on network television.

I know cost would be an issue, but it's not like there are tons of special effects in every T:SCC episode.



Fox would have to release it once canceled. Which is to say, give all the rights to it back to Warner Bros. But Fox can easily choose not to air it without cancelling it. "Just in case." But they never do.

So yeah, it's pretty fucked.

And there's no way any cable channel could afford T:SCC - unless you just want to see T's punching each other. There's no way. It's almost too expensive for Fox.

[McJerk]

I watched every episode last night on the internet and I must say, this show was fucking great the first season and a half, but it is lagging badly towards the middle of season 2. They better think of some shit soon.

A lot of things I would change, but still a damn good show.

Brian Austin green GETS SHIT DONE

[ClintP]

I would be fine with it moving to cable and losing some effects. I care more about the characters and the story over fighting shit. Just give it the same level of effects as Burn Notice and I would be happy and keep re-using the same future robot scenes. :)

[McJerk]

I would be fine with it moving to cable and losing some effects. I care more about the characters and the story over fighting shit. Just give it the same level of effects as Burn Notice and I would be happy and keep re-using the same future robot scenes. :)

Yeah seriously, the graphics are shitty anyway. Turn the terminator vs. terminator fights into some old school makeup gritty shit and no one will care. No one watches it for the graphics or explosions.

[greg donovan]

I would be fine with it moving to cable and losing some effects. I care more about the characters and the story over fighting shit. Just give it the same level of effects as Burn Notice and I would be happy and keep re-using the same future robot scenes. :)

more shows would benefit from the model USA has used for burn notice.

[McJerk]

Summer Glau sometimes sounds like Mira Sorvino's ditzy voice in "Mighty Aphrodite", especially when she's trying to pass as a teenage girl.

[Hurnslice]

New T:SCC promo - 30 second vid.

Sweet! Looks like it's ramping up.

http://spoilertv.blogspot.com/2009/01/sarah-connor-chronicles-new-promo.html

[snuffy]

That looks awesome.

[Hurnslice]

New T:SCC & Dollhouse promo vid.

Thanks, Quentin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y8K7u-7Kx0

[greg donovan]

New T:SCC & Dollhouse promo vid.

Thanks, Quentin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y8K7u-7Kx0

well, that is memorable.

[Hurnslice]

well, that is memorable.

I'd actually like a poster. Crazy Cameron with guns and a spiraling circle - cool.

[greg donovan]

I'd actually like a poster. Crazy Cameron with guns and a spiraling circle - cool.

that would be cool.

[Kenobi Fei-Hung]

That video is awesome. Needs more Cameron.

[Dreaded Anomaly]

Summer Glau and Eliza Dushku on the screen at the same time is intoxicating. :D

[Marc Lombardi]

And this episode, so far, is not. :?

[Hurnslice]

Always a slow build.

Weaver owned and the John Henry dialog was epic.

I liked how John Connor grew a pair and was basically bitch slapped by Derrek.

Good show.

[LeggoMyEggolas]

Always a slow build.

Weaver owned and the John Henry dialog was epic.

I liked how John Connor grew a pair and was basically bitch slapped by Derrek.

Good show.

I've always suspected that there was something off about Weaver, that's the Shirley Manson character right? I'm trying to figure out why she/it would willingly destroy a facility that provides the metal that makes them. I've suspected that there's more to her than the "big bad" path we've been led down so far. Then again, I could be way off base. :)

[BGPu]

Hopefully the invisible Kyle Reese is not going to be a regular part of the series. The actor playing him seemed too young and mopey. And his bad mutton chops annoyed me.

[artimoff]

I've always suspected that there was something off about Weaver, that's the Shirley Manson character right? I'm trying to figure out why she/it would willingly destroy a facility that provides the metal that makes them. I've suspected that there's more to her than the "big bad" path we've been led down so far. Then again, I could be way off base. :)


They sent out a distress call that wasn't encoded, so she took them out. It's like she's culling the ones that might bring her machinations to light.

A good episode, but not mindblowing.

[Hurnslice]

They sent out a distress call that wasn't encoded, so she took them out. It's like she's culling the ones that might bring her machinations to light.

A good episode, but not mindblowing.

I could go either way on what side Weaver is playing for. At this point, both can be possible.

[Hurnslice]

Holy crap the ratings were shite.

T:SCC pulled in 3.9 mil with a 1.4 share.
Dollhouse had 4.7 mil with a 2.o share.

Someone high up at FOX better love this show, or the next 8 shows are it.

[artimoff]

Holy crap the ratings were shite.

T:SCC pulled in 3.9 mil with a 1.4 share.
Dollhouse had 4.7 mil with a 2.o share.

Someone high up at FOX better love this show, or the next 8 shows are it.


Fox expects lower raitings on their friday night shows, but I don't think they expect them to be that low.

[Foolish Mortal]

Holy crap the ratings were shite.

T:SCC pulled in 3.9 mil with a 1.4 share.
Dollhouse had 4.7 mil with a 2.o share.

Someone high up at FOX better love this show, or the next 8 shows are it.
Did anyone really expect them to do better on a Friday night?

[ClintP]

I have no freaking clue what the T-1000's goals are.

[Hurnslice]

I have no freaking clue what the T-1000's goals are.

I hear ya.

Did the warehouse workers know what she was or were they just in a general panic?

The effects totally worked for me.

[ClintP]

I hear ya.

Did the warehouse workers know what she was or were they just in a general panic?

The effects totally worked for me.

Looked like general panic to me.

[Dreaded Anomaly]

Did anyone really expect them to do better on a Friday night?

Especially the night before Valentine's day, when it's likely that even fewer people were around to watch TV on a Friday.

Hopefully, the Nielsen+7 ratings will improve things a bit.

[Hurnslice]

Especially the night before Valentine's day, when it's likely that even fewer people were around to watch TV on a Friday.

Hopefully, the Nielsen+7 ratings will improve things a bit.

Both Dollhouse and T:SCC won the male 18-34 demo for their timeslots.

That's about the only silver lining here, though.

[ERNIE_E]

I don't know why they just didn't keep it on Mondays. You hang in there going head to head with Monday night football. Then after the football season you go to Friday. I think a one-two punch of Sarah Connor and 24 would have been much better.

[bartleby]

I don't know why they just didn't keep it on Mondays. You hang in there going head to head with Monday night football. Then after the football season you go to Friday. I think a one-two punch of Sarah Connor and 24 would have been much better.

Because it would be incredibly stupid to move HOUSE to Fridays.

[Petey Parker]

For anybody in the Philly/NJ area who couldn't see what the fuck was going on because Fox Philly shrank the screen for 10 minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KioR6gPbss

[Dreaded Anomaly]

Because it would be incredibly stupid to move HOUSE to Fridays.

Yep. It's all about scheduling around American Idol.

[bartleby]

Yep. It's all about scheduling around American Idol.

It's not just about AMERICAN IDOL. Networks are about maximizing the entire primetime schedule. Of course, there probably better time slots for TERMINATOR and DOLLHOUSE. But the goal of the network isn't just to make sure those two shows are successful.

[Dreaded Anomaly]

It's not just about AMERICAN IDOL. Networks are about maximizing the entire primetime schedule. Of course, there probably better time slots for TERMINATOR and DOLLHOUSE. But the goal of the network isn't just to make sure those two shows are successful.

Fox moved 3 shows for this season of Idol (House, Bones, and TSCC), and I think Dollhouse had originally been scheduled at a different time as well. Also, Fringe is going to end up being preempted for Idol from time to time. That's half of their primetime lineup being affected by one show.

I understand that it's about maximizing the primetime schedule, but that pretty much equals Idol for FOX.

[bartleby]

Fox moved 3 shows for this season of Idol (House, Bones, and TSCC)

And it worked out really well for AMERICAN IDOL, HOUSE and BONES.

[Dreaded Anomaly]

And it worked out really well for AMERICAN IDOL, HOUSE and BONES.

...which were all already better rated than TSCC, and weren't moved to Friday night.

[bartleby]

...which were all already better rated than TSCC, and weren't moved to Friday night.

Which brings me back to my original point, that the goal of the FOX network isn't solely to make sure that TERMINATOR and DOLLHOUSE get the highest ratings that they possibly can.

[Hurnslice]

Am I the only one who caught this week's ep?

Pretty damn slow beginning, but I liked where it wound up.

No one can make fun of Sarah's nutty-ness anymore.

And John had some balls.

3.8 mil rating.

[Japhy Ryder]

Am I the only one who caught this week's ep?

Pretty damn slow beginning, but I liked where it wound up.

No one can make fun of Sarah's nutty-ness anymore.

And am I the only one who caught this week's ep?

Why is this season so focused on whether or nut Sarah is a freakin' nut hatch as opposed to the bad-ass that she is? Just when it seems like they're going to drop that theme, they pick it up again. Blargh.

Oh, and

I hadn't slept for about 28 to 30 hours before watching this episode and came very close to conking out a couple of times. Never, ever watch this episode while being that fucking sleep deprived. When did David Lynch start moonlighting for this show?

[Dr. Chaos]

Okay, I'm all for trying to stretch the old writing chops, doing some strange shit but can we please get back to Cameron punching something?

Anything? :-?

[Dr. Hackenbush]

A VERY spoilery, 4 minute trailer for the final six TSCC episodes which was shown at WonderCon:

http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/03/exclusive-massi.html

[MIKE D]

Things better pick up soon. The last few episodes have been like watching paint dry.

[Shade]

Well, that trailer has gotten me a bit more excited. With any luck the upcoming Terminator movie will help it get a 3rd season.

[Dr. Hackenbush]

Things better pick up soon. The last few episodes have been like watching paint dry.

The trailer leaves me hopeful for better episodes. I do agree, though, that the last few episodes have been a giant pile of suck.

[Doc Randy]

I am amazed people haven't been enjoying the last few episodes.

I think this show is amazing and it has just gotten better.

I love the fact that we have at least two factions of humans and at least two factions of terminators/machines all from the future and all with conflicting agendas.

I think Shirley Manson's character is probably the most fascinating because we have no idea what the fuck she is doing or why.
And the introduction of the HKs and the organizations that are making them is pretty awesome.

[Dr. Hackenbush]

I am amazed people haven't been enjoying the last few episodes.
I think this show is amazing and it has just gotten better.

What did you think of the trailer (http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/03/exclusive-massi.html)?

[MIKE D]

The trailer leaves me hopeful for better episodes. I do agree, though, that the last few episodes have been a giant pile of suck.

The trailer is promising. The show needs to be more action oriented, to distract from the fact that it's never really going to go anywhere. The slower episodes like the last two just shine a harsh light on that reality.

[Doc Randy]

The trailer is promising. The show needs to be more action oriented, to distract from the fact that it's never really going to go anywhere. The slower episodes like the last two just shine a harsh light on that reality.

Just because they aren't shooting a bunch or shit isn't constantly blowing up doesn't mean that its isn't going anywhere.

If anything, I would say the bigger themes are snowballing at an ever increasing rate.

[Dr. Hackenbush]

Just because they aren't shooting a bunch or shit isn't constantly blowing up doesn't mean that its isn't going anywhere.

If anything, I would say the bigger themes are snowballing at an ever increasing rate.

That's true. The episode where Cameron hangs out in the library was a good episode.

[Doc Randy]

That's true. The episode where Cameron hangs out in the library was a good episode.

I am talking more about the competing SKYNET factions and the flying hunter killer robots.

[Dr. Hackenbush]

I am talking more about the competing SKYNET factions and the flying hunter killer robots.

Those aspects are good but all that stuff with the funeral and the desert town and the grieving families, the sleep therapy clinic, etc. - that stuff does nothing for me. The saving grace of those episodes have been the Shirley Manson/SKYNET scenes that Sarah, John, Cameron and Co. aren't a part of.

[Dr. Chaos]

I honestly can't stand the redhead liquid metal terminator, Catherine Weaver was it?

I kind of just start spacing out or walking over to my PC when she starts talking, it's like a reflex now.

[Dr. Hackenbush]

I honestly can't stand the redhead liquid metal terminator, Catherine Weaver was it?

I kind of just start spacing out or walking over to my PC when she starts talking, it's like a reflex now.

Yeah, Catherine Weaver is the character's name.

[Doc Randy]

Those aspects are good but all that stuff with the funeral and the desert town and the grieving families, the sleep therapy clinic, etc. - that stuff does nothing for me. The saving grace of those episodes have been the Shirley Manson/SKYNET scenes that Sarah, John, Cameron and Co. aren't a part of.

You don't think the revelation that there are secret R&D and manufacturing facilities already producing terminator machinery is exciting?

Who are these people? Who funds them? How many other facilities are out there? Why did Shirley Manson try to kill all of the workers and blow the place up? Who controls the HK robots?

I think this stuff is fascinating. I love the idea that there are different camps of terminators warring with one another... each trying to influence the future in their own way.

[Doc Randy]

Yeah, Catherine Weaver is the character's name.

I prefer to say Shirley Manson. :twisted:

[Dan-C]

That's true. The episode where Cameron hangs out in the library was a good episode.

I thought that was one of the best episodes of the show so far. It touched on such a different aspect of the sow that it was almost refreshing.

I enjoyed season 1 a lot, but season 2 has really proved how strong this show can be. Anyone who didn't instantly realize and geek out at what Sarah saw in the sky when she passed out has got to have a screw loose. I think I gasped and went OH SHIT!

I'm also really liking the story line with Agent Ellison and the computer, trying to teach it ethics and religion and humanity. Very very interesting.

[Dr. Hackenbush]

Why did Shirley Manson try to kill all of the workers and blow the place up?

THAT is something I'd like to know. The warring factions aspect is interesting. My questions are - are the two sides vying for power and control or are there ideological differences at the root of this? Are there good artificial life forms out there or are they both competing against one another for the privilege of wiping out humanity?

[Doc Randy]

oops

[Dr. Hackenbush]

I thought that was one of the best episodes of the show so far. It touched on such a different aspect of the sow that it was almost refreshing.

I enjoyed season 1 a lot, but season 2 has really proved how strong this show can be. Anyone who didn't instantly realize and geek out at what Sarah saw in the sky when she passed out has got to have a screw loose. I think I gasped and went OH SHIT!

I'm also really liking the story line with Agent Ellison and the computer, trying to teach it ethics and religion and humanity. Very very interesting.

I had an "Oh Shit!" moment at the end of that trailer when it showed John on top of Cameron on a bed. It may not be what it looks like, but damn! That is some freaky shit.

[Akira]

You don't think the revelation that there are secret R&D and manufacturing facilities already producing terminator machinery is exciting?

Who are these people? Who funds them? How many other facilities are out there? Why did Shirley Manson try to kill all of the workers and blow the place up? Who controls the HK robots?

I think this stuff is fascinating. I love the idea that there are different camps of terminators warring with one another... each trying to influence the future in their own way.

you're dead on. this show is about so much more than blowing shit up. i love the latticework they've woven so far.

[RegularJoe]

the fact that reading through this thread i'm realizing how little i know about what's going on in this show means i'll be deleting it from my tivo. just not grabbing me, it seems.

[artimoff]

Who are these people? Who funds them? How many other facilities are out there? Why did Shirley Manson try to kill all of the workers and blow the place up? Who controls the HK robots?



She killed them & cleansed the facitlity because they let their distress call go out on an unscrambled channel. She couldn't risk that someone else heard it.

At least that's how I took it.

[Doc Randy]

She killed them & cleansed the facitlity because they let their distress call go out on an unscrambled channel. She couldn't risk that someone else heard it.

At least that's how I took it.

Or... they didn't work for her at all. That the unscrambled signal alerted her to their activities and she went there to kill everyone and blow the place up. Maybe she is trying to prevent the rise of SKYNET (as we all think we know it) and Judgment Day.

Think about it. She didn't remove any precious materials that you would think she would want to protect. She didn't retrieve the HK robot. She then sent the bald PI to find the last guy, but that dude killed the PI and ran off with a compliant HK.

Similarly, when the terminators were trying to blow up the nuclear facility, she bought it and put in an automated control system to prevent tampering. She could have blown the place up at any time since then, but she didn't.

There are conflicting agendas at work amongst the terminators sent back from the future.

[greg donovan]

Or... they didn't work for her at all. That the unscrambled signal alerted her to their activities and she went there to kill everyone and blow the place up. Maybe she is trying to prevent the rise of SKYNET (as we all think we know it) and Judgment Day.

Think about it. She didn't remove any precious materials that you would think she would want to protect. She didn't retrieve the HK robot. She then sent the bald PI to find the last guy, but that dude killed the PI and ran off with a compliant HK.

Similarly, when the terminators were trying to blow up the nuclear facility, she bought it and put in an automated control system to prevent tampering. She could have blown the place up at any time since then, but she didn't.

There are conflicting agendas at work amongst the terminators sent back from the future.

i think she might be programmed to build a benevolent skynet.

[artimoff]

A VERY spoilery, 4 minute trailer for the final six TSCC episodes which was shown at WonderCon:

http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/03/exclusive-massi.html


...



:eek:






:Panic:

[dougmac]

I almost gave up on this show, and definately would have if not for HULU, but I am glad I didn't. It has gotten much better in this second season and I hope it gets a chance to continue on. The ratings aren't great, but according to Variety, it and Dollhouse are seeing a huge spike in ratings (much higher than the average show gets) when the DVR viewings are calculated and factored in so there's some hope.

[Jonathan Callan]

Wonder Con had some interesting tidbits for fans, specifically in regards to cancellation. My coverage of it should be up on CBR tomorrow.

[Scotty]

I almost gave up on this show, and definately would have if not for HULU, but I am glad I didn't. It has gotten much better in this second season and I hope it gets a chance to continue on. The ratings aren't great, but according to Variety, it and Dollhouse are seeing a huge spike in ratings (much higher than the average show gets) when the DVR viewings are calculated and factored in so there's some hope.

i think this story line with the warehouse has drug on a bit long. Friday's episode was the first one I was like WTF just happened here.

[Scotty]

A VERY spoilery, 4 minute trailer for the final six TSCC episodes which was shown at WonderCon:

http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2009/03/exclusive-massi.html

Holy Shit.

[Kip K]

And after considering giving up the show last Friday I am back on board.

[Hurnslice]

Or... they didn't work for her at all. That the unscrambled signal alerted her to their activities and she went there to kill everyone and blow the place up. Maybe she is trying to prevent the rise of SKYNET (as we all think we know it) and Judgment Day.

Think about it. She didn't remove any precious materials that you would think she would want to protect. She didn't retrieve the HK robot. She then sent the bald PI to find the last guy, but that dude killed the PI and ran off with a compliant HK.

Similarly, when the terminators were trying to blow up the nuclear facility, she bought it and put in an automated control system to prevent tampering. She could have blown the place up at any time since then, but she didn't.

There are conflicting agendas at work amongst the terminators sent back from the future.


I'm on board with this. And as strongly as I feel you're right, it is also possible it could go the opposite direction.

Personally, I really liked the sleep clinic episode. I finally got to see it again and it is very strong.

The close up of Sarah pulling the trigger was intense. She's a bad bitch, indeed.

[BGPu]

Seems like they're moving Cameron back to the forefront of things. She hasn't been much of a focus since the show's come back. You wouldn't know she's a machine based on how little screen time she's been getting.

[artimoff]

Bah! I can't believe they killed Claire Medium. That sucks, she was quite cute.

[Dr. Chaos]

I didn't like her personally (Riley). She just never really seemed to click with anybody.

On the other hand, I did love the scenes where she was alone with Cameron and about to wet herself with fear, that was a fun.

I couldn't help but find it a lil humorous though that someone that used to fight side by side with Derek against deadly humanoid machines was having such a hard time taking down a teenage girl.

[Hurnslice]

I didn't like her personally (Riley). She just never really seemed to click with anybody.

On the other hand, I did love the scenes where she was alone with Cameron and about to wet herself with fear, that was a fun.

I couldn't help but find it a lil humorous though that someone that used to fight side by side with Derek against deadly humanoid machines was having such a hard time taking down a teenage girl.

All of the Riley scenes were intense. The foreboding doom was thick. I've got a buddy who is going to absolutely flip when he finally watches this ep. He luurved Riley.

I think Jesse was trying to not kill Riley more than anything. She looked like she was getting her ass handed to her by a non-fighter, but on second viewing, it looked like she was trying to subdue more than fight. The gun was reactionary and very much in self defense.

I'm really interested in how Derek is going to react to Jesse's bailage.

And holy shit, Kill Switch!!

There is going to be some epic winding down (up) to the end of this season.

[Dr. Chaos]

So, John has sort of a bizzare psychological relationship with Cameron in the future?

Once Sarah, Derek (from the future, dies in the past?) and whoever pops up next dies after Judgement day, with her being the only remaining part of his former life, it seems like he might develop an unhealthy attachment towards her.

[artimoff]

I think Jesse was trying to not kill Riley more than anything. She looked like she was getting her ass handed to her by a non-fighter, but on second viewing, it looked like she was trying to subdue more than fight. The gun was reactionary and very much in self defense.



And yet, once the fight started she never told Riley to calm down or to stop fighting.

[Hurnslice]

And yet, once the fight started she never told Riley to calm down or to stop fighting.

No, but she was dialoging some oddly dark stuff, until Riley freaked and started fighting back again. I just get the sense Jesse didn't want to necessarily kill her, and yet, was intensely pissed Riley had turned on her or F'd up her plans.

Very strange and creepy fight.

Not to mention the half-grin on Riley's face when she died.

Another great moment, when I thought for sure someone would call the front desk to complain about the noise, the gun had a silencer on it.

Nice detail.

[ClintP]

I never really liked Riley, but I most certainly think that Jessie is a huge biotch now.

[Hurnslice]

I never really liked Riley, but I most certainly think that Jessie is a huge biotch now.

I like her style. But ooooh do I hate her. No one leaves Derek waiting in a ditch!

It seems to me she's going at it with a "we can't stop Judgment Day, but we can change who's leading it" mindset.

As in, they can't win the war with her version of John leading the resistance.

So, she's trying to destroy that John by destroying present Cameron's rep.

Which is a pretty interesting strategy. (if that even makes sense ;))

[artimoff]

I bet John thinks Derick is the her killer & will confront him next week.

[Foolish Mortal]

Why's everyone convinced Cameron killed Riley? We know how thorough she is. If she were to kill her, she'd make damn sure no one would ever find the body. Just the fact her body turned up in the morgue would be sloppy on Cameron's part. That ought to prove she didn't do it.

[LeggoMyEggolas]

Why's everyone convinced Cameron killed Riley? We know how thorough she is. If she were to kill her, she'd make damn sure no one would ever find the body. Just the fact her body turned up in the morgue would be sloppy on Cameron's part. That ought to prove she didn't do it.

Heh, good point. ;-) I think John looking at the skin under the finger is going to lead to something. Like I think he hasn't seen any scratches on Cameron lately, so that might be giving John a hint that Cameron wasn't it. I could be wrong. Plus, the stuff between John Henry and Weaver's daughter was chilling.

[Thudpucker]

I gave up on this show a few months ago but now that it's on Fridays I decided to try it again last night. This show has gotten interesting again. Going to go to Hulu and give it another chance.

[The Zevad]

Why's everyone convinced Cameron killed Riley? We know how thorough she is. If she were to kill her, she'd make damn sure no one would ever find the body. Just the fact her body turned up in the morgue would be sloppy on Cameron's part. That ought to prove she didn't do it.

Yes, Thank You! I recorded it and saw it I was like come on. Cameron is not that sloppy. She would have fucking destroyed the body. I was like no way. IF she did do it she would leave no evidence behind. Yet NO ONE has thought about this? Sheesh. Though yeah when John was looking at Riley's fingers I think his brain finally started working. She everyone's emotions are intefering with their brains right now. No one is thinking it through. Just emotional gut reactions.

[Dreaded Anomaly]

Why's everyone convinced Cameron killed Riley? We know how thorough she is. If she were to kill her, she'd make damn sure no one would ever find the body. Just the fact her body turned up in the morgue would be sloppy on Cameron's part. That ought to prove she didn't do it.

It seems like there are a lot of ways in which it would seem unlikely to be Cameron. They could compare the caliber of the bullet with what the Connors have around/what Cameron usually carries. Also, isn't there some way for John to view Cameron's recorded memories and see that she didn't do it?

If Sarah and Derek ever actually talked about anything, Jesse would be screwed in about 15 minutes.

[Dr. Hackenbush]

It seems like there are a lot of ways in which it would seem unlikely to be Cameron. They could compare the caliber of the bullet with what the Connors have around/what Cameron usually carries. Also, isn't there some way for John to view Cameron's recorded memories and see that she didn't do it?

If Sarah and Derek ever actually talked about anything, Jesse would be screwed in about 15 minutes.

I want to see Cameron punch Jesse right in her pout.

[Dreaded Anomaly]

This was one of the best episodes of the season, in my opinion. John showed up both Sarah and Derek, and Jesse finally had to face her actions. The submarine flashback concluded very well; I freaked out when I realized it was a T-1000 in the box. Also, now we know why Jesse hates metal so much.

[VitoDGK]

I concur, i loved the derek/jesse scene.

[Black Roman]

I haven't watched this show at all this season, but I decided to start back up and I'm not ashamed to admit that I totally geeked out when the T-1000 appeared. Everything after that was just bonus.

[Foolish Mortal]

So, John has sort of a bizzare psychological relationship with Cameron in the future?

Once Sarah, Derek (from the future, dies in the past?) and whoever pops up next dies after Judgement day, with her being the only remaining part of his former life, it seems like he might develop an unhealthy attachment towards her.
After watching last night's episode, it definitely appears that Older John had some kind of weird relationship with Cameron. Or at least Cameron felt some sort of odd attachment to John.

[artimoff]

After watching last night's episode, it definitely appears that Older John had some kind of weird relationship with Cameron. Or at least Cameron felt some sort of odd attachment to John.


I'm not sure John is still alive in the future. That might be why Cameron came back in time.

[Dr. Chaos]

I'm not sure John is still alive in the future. That might be why Cameron came back in time.
Wow...you just brought up an incredibly freaky possibility.

That would be a hell of a plot twist down the line.

I took it all to mean that John has taken a "we have to do absolutely anything to survive" commanding BSG admiral badass stance and not really cutting corners for the sake of keeping everyone feeling all neatly informed and safe.

At first I thought the terminator onboard the sub was acting as a plot against the humans after malfunctioning but it seems he was still following John Connor's orders.

His relationship with Cameron, depending how much deeper it's gotten in the future could be informing his decision making process more than he realizes with him continuing to possibly slowly isolate himself from human relationships more and more without even realizing it.

Anybody think Derek might have actually let her go? Seems like they decided to leave it in the air at the very last second.

I know there are probably alot of fans that hated Jesse and especially when she was being manipulative and deceptive but I never really ended up feeling that way about her for one reason or another.

She was the kind of character I normally didn't want to understand but ultimately did.

[Generic Poster]

I like how timelines are constantly changing/branching off. I think it was a couple episodes ago when Reese was asking Jesse when her J-Day was.

And it was nice seeing John finally showing some brains.

[Scotty]

I like how timelines are constantly changing/branching off. I think it was a couple episodes ago when Reese was asking Jesse when her J-Day was.

And it was nice seeing John finally showing some brains.

just simply like to say the last two episodes were excellent. If this is the direction the shows going I'm in. good to see John turn into a leader. The whole thing was well done.

[Kenobi Fei-Hung]

Apparently, Friday's episode actually gained viewers (http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/03/21/friday-ratings-dollhouse-foundation-holds-up-against-ncaas/14966) from the previous week, which was good as well.

Now that we're finally getting some good episodes about the show's overall plot, it looks like viewers are responding. Hopefully it will be enough for a third season.

Maybe they can pick up more viewers by cross-promoting with Salvation, even if they aren't directly tied in together.

[Scotty]

Apparently, Friday's episode actually gained viewers (http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/03/21/friday-ratings-dollhouse-foundation-holds-up-against-ncaas/14966) from the previous week, which was good as well.

Now that we're finally getting some good episodes about the show's overall plot, it looks like viewers are responding. Hopefully it will be enough for a third season.

Maybe they can pick up more viewers by cross-promoting with Salvation, even if they aren't directly tied in together.

they have to get it off Fridays.

[Kenobi Fei-Hung]

they have to get it off Fridays.

Yeah, they do. I think it's clear this show has an audience and that it would have a chance on another night.

As a fan of this show, it's frustrating that it's never seemed to get firing on all cylinders ratings-wise. I may be wrong, but wasn't this supposed to lead into or follow 24 on the same night, only the writers' strike killed that prospect?

Then it got savaged going against Monday Night Football in the fall. If it had started life paired with 24, I think it would be a lot different now in terms of viewership.

[Doug O]

I haven't watched it since the mid-season break, glad to hear it's good, maybe I'll track it down on Hulu or iTunes ...

[sto110]

they need to stop with the artsy stuff every episode (poems, symbolism upon symbolism) and get to fighting some freaking robots.

John needs to loose the eyeliner and stop crying every episode.

the mom needs to stop getting hurt and injured. I want to see a plan. they seem to be reacting to everything.

plus how about some insight into the t1000 from the cranberries plan? what is her ultimate goal? to turn the kiddie terminator into skynet?

[dougmac]

another strong episode and hopefully a lead into getting a season 3. Brian Austin Green just signed on to a new pilot though, so it's not looking good (however he has to stay with Terminator over the new show if it gets renewed).

If you gave up on it, go to HULU and catch back up, it's doing a lot of stuff really well.

[Dr. Chaos]

they need to stop with the artsy stuff every episode (poems, symbolism upon symbolism) and get to fighting some freaking robots.
This might sound shallow but I have to agree.

This series does action great, it's a shame they don't do it more often because they're alot better at it than they are at being artistic and doing Sarah's inner monologues (which haven't done anything for me).

Rock em sock em!

[Generic Poster]

they need to stop with the artsy stuff every episode (poems, symbolism upon symbolism) and get to fighting some freaking robots.

John needs to loose the eyeliner and stop crying every episode.

the mom needs to stop getting hurt and injured. I want to see a plan. they seem to be reacting to everything.

plus how about some insight into the t1000 from the cranberries plan? what is her ultimate goal? to turn the kiddie terminator into skynet?

She's from Garbage.

[Dr. Chaos]

The thing with the liquid metal, asking a Terminator of their own free will (or whatever you want to call what they have under Skynet) to join them, could be abit of a problem between the machines and how things are being done?

Maybe these machines John is reaching out to (assuming it's more than just the LM) aren't human friendly as we can judge from the quick death that poor bastard suffered after one of them opened the case but they could have different ideas about what to do with the human race and control them instead of just driving them into extinction like Skynet.

[Scotty]

The thing with the liquid metal, asking a Terminator of their own free will (or whatever you want to call what they have under Skynet) to join them, could be abit of a problem between the machines and how things are being done?

Maybe these machines John is reaching out to (assuming it's more than just the LM) aren't human friendly as we can judge from the quick death that poor bastard suffered after one of them opened the case but they could have different ideas about what to do with the human race and control them instead of just driving them into extinction like Skynet.


I like that idea. I like the thought that if they are seperate machines they could cook up new ideas just like humans do, evolve and become diverse like humans. Skynet civil war is coming.

[Dr. Chaos]

It was also nice to see John emote abit at the end there, I wasn't aware Thomas Dekker could do much more other than stand around acting angsty and grimacing a whole lot until now.

And Cameron didn't even react, the man could have been choking on something or having a seizure and she wouldn't even bat an eyelash.

Everybody laughs when I say this but Summer Glau has the creepiest portrayal of any of the Terminators yet.

[Dr. Chaos]

Also even though it was just briefly, I geeked out at the mention of the T2 Terminator.

Considering how important he was to him (in a bizzare way, he was sort of John's first father figure), I look forward to seeing him start talking about him to someone like Cameron at some point considering he seems to be having a considerably harder time getting used to her and getting her to learn.

Then again, he was a kid when he met The Terminator and he's been through alot since then, he might have worn on John's patience the same way she does today though I'm not so sure about that.

[Doc Randy]

Anybody watch this last week?

I think my theory is coming true. :)

[Dr. Chaos]

I like John Henry and his awesome collection of Bionicles, hopefully he doesn't go all human hater on the cast, seems too easy.

I hope he figures out what the bug eyed woman really is and turns against her.

[Doc Randy]

I like John Henry and his awesome collection of Bionicles, hopefully he doesn't go all human hater on the cast, seems too easy.

I hope he figures out what the bug eyed woman really is and turns against her.

Weaver may have been sent back by the humans. All I know is her agenda is not the normal Skynet agenda.

[Cth]

Anybody watch this last week?

I think my theory is coming true. :)

Yeah, I've been on the verge of quitting, but thankfully they ended that horrible 3 Dots/Jesse subplot.

Everytime she came on screen things just ground to a screeching halt.

I want something that feels like the movies, smaller cast, focused goal on taking down Skynet, etc.

I liked the addition of Derek, and was so-so on Riley.

Anyways, the last episode has done a lot to resolve some of the issues I had.

I haven't read your theory, but I'll check it out (a quick scan of the post on this page makes me think you're right though).

It'd be great if they went a different route with the timeline stuff (John dead; skynet conflicting factions; etc) rather than the usual "Kill John/Skynet" loop the series has a tendency to get stuck in. There's been glimpses of this type of thinking (further back in time; taking out sites in the past; skipping ahead in time; etc)

For an advanced computer system, it's pretty single minded, despite having all these tools at its disposal (infiltration, brute force, etc)

[Dr. Chaos]

Weaver may have been sent back by the humans. All I know is her agenda is not the normal Skynet agenda.
I don't think she was.

"Humans will disappoint me"

I'm not sure whether she's acting on her own or Skynet's but I don't believe she has humanity's interests in mind at all.

[Kip K]

I agree that the show has found its stride again. I have also had a feeling that somehow Cameron is doing stuff on her own that is furthering the pro-human faction's agenda. Naturally the other characters wouldn't understand and it would be a big reveal when/if it comes out.

Shame this show will likely be cancelled at the end of the season. I hope the showrunners write out where they saw the story going.

[Scotty]

I think Shirley Mansion is the T1000 on the Sub and comes back to help create the computer resistance. John Henry is the "good AI" with the FBI agent teaching it ethics. And the one Miles Dyson created that Sara Conner tried to kill is Skynet.

[ClintP]

Yeah, I am pretty certain that there are two factions of Terminators now, and John Henry is the father of that division. I think Shirley Mansion is part of the "good" ones and is just making sure her "Father" comes into being. She is more or less safe guarding him.

The other one is Skynet like you said and is the "bad" father. I am pretty sure he is the one running that super secret company and everything and already has complete sentience.

[Hurnslice]

I think Weaver is good.

I think John Henry is the loose cannon.

I think Cameron is also losing her marbles and is setting herself up for self termination (clearly) and may force the issue.

[Generic Poster]

I don't think Weaver is "good," but she clearly has a different agenda from Skynet.

[Dr. Chaos]

I think she's manipulative and evil. I believe she's going to turn out to be the most sadistic Terminator yet.

[Cth]

What's the thoughts on the program that was lurking waiting for John Henry to go online?

Good? Bad?

[Dr. Chaos]

What's the thoughts on the program that was lurking waiting for John Henry to go online?

Good? Bad?
Bad.

Lord knows what he would have done to the kid because of it.

[Hurnslice]

What's the thoughts on the program that was lurking waiting for John Henry to go online?

Good? Bad?

Bad.

Weaver's been trying to pre-emptively make JH good. But he's going to cross the street against the light.

Cameron's been dealing with this too.

It's interesting how the show has set up parallels between JH/Cameron and Weaver/Sarah.

[Scotty]

What's the thoughts on the program that was lurking waiting for John Henry to go online?

Good? Bad?

It's Dyson's skynet program from Cyberdine, since T3 established Skynet as software (even though T3 is retconned) I think they went with the idea. You blow up Cyberdyne but you can't get Skynet. Now it knows things aretrying to kill it over the years and it's been waiting, stuying investigating and building an army to destroy anyone who gets in it's way.

[Dr. Chaos]

I agree that the show has found its stride again. I have also had a feeling that somehow Cameron is doing stuff on her own that is furthering the pro-human faction's agenda. Naturally the other characters wouldn't understand and it would be a big reveal when/if it comes out.

Shame this show will likely be cancelled at the end of the season. I hope the showrunners write out where they saw the story going.
They said in an IGN article that no one is going to be satisfied with how the show ends if it's canceled this season because they're nowhere near done yet.

[Cth]

Ahh ok, wasn't paying close enough attention -- guess that's what happens when you try and watch DVR'd stuff with a 2 year old running around the room :D

[ClintP]

Yeah, the program that got into John Henry was skynet and is his "brother". I think the reason it is targeting the Conners now, it that it has the same FBI files that John Henry has and it knows it has been attacked over and over by them when it hadn't done anything to them at that point. I think it is trying to get a body and it is responsible for that corporation building the fliers and also sending that goon after Cameron.

[Scotty]

Ahh ok, wasn't paying close enough attention -- guess that's what happens when you try and watch DVR'd stuff with a 2 year old running around the room :D

Wow is she already 2?

[Cth]

Wow is she already 2?

As of next week, yep :D

[Hurnslice]

They said in an IGN article that no one is going to be satisfied with how the show ends if it's canceled this season because they're nowhere near done yet.

Link, please.

[Scotty]

As of next week, yep :D

Seriously man, time flies.

[Dr. Chaos]

Link, please.
http://tv.ign.com/articles/957/957908p1.html


Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles is a show its own creator admits is "ratings challenged." When prodded about the future of the show beyond the second season, Friedman repeated the statement "I don't know anything" a couple of times. However, diehard fans of the show will be glad to know that the brainchild behind the story arc has "a plan," and he added that he hopes that if a third season isn't ordered, "nobody's satisfied," because Season 2 is not meant to be the end of the story. That sounds like someone with plenty of ideas yet to be seen.

[Kip K]

I agree that John Henry and Weaver are "good." The Cyberdyne AI is the Skynet from the future. It is lashing out at the Connors out of survival instinct (it probably cannot fathom the future stuff). I also think it wants Cameron's body.

The ironic thing is, we are getting a bad Skynet largely because of the Connor's actions--on some level they are responsible for creating the dark future. Cue time loop!

[Hurnslice]

http://tv.ign.com/articles/957/957908p1.html

Thanks, bro.

[Hurnslice]

I agree that John Henry and Weaver are "good." The Cyberdyne AI is the Skynet from the future. It is lashing out at the Connors out of survival instinct (it probably cannot fathom the future stuff). I also think it wants Cameron's body.

The ironic thing is, we are getting a bad Skynet largely because of the Connor's actions--on some level they are responsible for creating the dark future. Cue time loop!

I don't know that JH is good ...yet. He could go either way, imo.

I wonder if they'll get into a nature vs. nurture thing.

[TheNatureRoy]

So when is Fox likely to make the decision on the show's future?

Is there any chance that they wait to see how big Salvation is and maybe give it another shot hoping that the film may spur interest in the television show?

[Gunter]

So when is Fox likely to make the decision on the show's future?

Is there any chance that they wait to see how big Salvation is and maybe give it another shot hoping that the film may spur interest in the television show?

The season finale is April 10th. I don't think Fox will announce their fall schedule until mid May so there's a chance.

It doesn't look good though.

[Shade]

The season finale is April 10th. I don't think Fox will announce their fall schedule until mid May so there's a chance.

It doesn't look good though.

I thought the DVR numbers were giving it quite a boost.

[Dan-C]

They said in an IGN article that no one is going to be satisfied with how the show ends if it's canceled this season because they're nowhere near done yet.

I'm going to be sad if Terminator is cancelled. It gets about the same number of viewers as both FNL and Dollhouse. And the critics either love it, or consider it better than it probably should be.

If nothing else, its one of the best written shows on TV.

[ClintP]

I agree that John Henry and Weaver are "good." The Cyberdyne AI is the Skynet from the future. It is lashing out at the Connors out of survival instinct (it probably cannot fathom the future stuff). I also think it wants Cameron's body.

The ironic thing is, we are getting a bad Skynet largely because of the Connor's actions--on some level they are responsible for creating the dark future. Cue time loop!

This is true if you assume that the Connors eliminated the path Skynet would have taken to get where it was going by their actions, but it in turn created alternate ways of getting there. No matter what, skynet happens and it hates humans.

[Doc Randy]

This is true if you assume that the Connors eliminated the path Skynet would have taken to get where it was going by their actions, but it in turn created alternate ways of getting there. No matter what, skynet happens and it hates humans.

But maybe Weaver was sent back in time to create a different nicer version of Skynet so that the humans and machines could co-exist more peacefully. Maybe the people in the future realized that there was no way to stop Skynet completely, so their best hope was to create their own. Weaver’s whole agenda may be to prevent Judgment Day.

[Dr. Chaos]

Why did she kill that guy that was taking a leak again?

[Doc Randy]

Why did she kill that guy that was taking a leak again?

She is a terminator. Not an angel.
It is possible she was sent back to accomplish a mission (possibly a righteous mission), but at the end of the day, she is still a killing machine.

Remember how Arnie was sent back in T2 with a mission to protect John, but he was still prepared to kill. Young John had to give him a direct order to not kill.

[Dr. Chaos]

She is a terminator. Not an angel.
It is possible she was sent back to accomplish a mission (possibly a righteous mission), but at the end of the day, she is still a killing machine.

Remember how Arnie was sent back in T2 with a mission to protect John, but he was still prepared to kill. Young John had to give him a direct order to not kill.
Yeah but he never killed a guy for taking a piss on him. :lol:

[Doc Randy]

Yeah but he never killed a guy for taking a piss on him. :lol:

She probably killed him and the other people because she ruthlessly determined that they were a barrier to her mission.

Just as Arnie would have had Furlong not intervened.

The fact that she killed everybody in the factory making Hunter-Killer robots and special alloys, along with her involvement in the nuclear reactor makes me think she is fighting to prevent Skynet's ability to manufacture terminators.