PDA

View Full Version : Jewish text predicts....Jesus?



mike black
07-07-2008, 07:44 PM
Much more at the article. Very interesting, though. Seems that like The Cult of Mithras, there are parts of the Jesus story being told prior to his life.

Tablet ignites debate on messiah and resurrection (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/05/africa/06stone.php)


JERUSALEM: A three-foot-tall tablet with 87 lines of Hebrew that scholars believe dates from the decades just before the birth of Jesus is causing a quiet stir in biblical and archaeological circles, especially because it may speak of a messiah who will rise from the dead after three days.

If such a messianic description really is there, it will contribute to a developing re-evaluation of both popular and scholarly views of Jesus, since it suggests that the story of his death and resurrection was not unique but part of a recognized Jewish tradition at the time...

...Yardeni, who analyzed the stone along with Binyamin Elitzur, is an expert on Hebrew script, especially of the era of King Herod, who died in 4 BC The two of them published a long analysis of the stone more than a year ago in Cathedra, a Hebrew-language quarterly devoted to the history and archaeology of Israel, and said that, based on the shape of the script and the language, the text dated from the late first century BC...

In Knohl's interpretation, the specific messianic figure embodied on the stone could be a man named Simon who was slain by a commander in the Herodian army, according to the first-century historian Josephus. The writers of the stone's passages were probably Simon's followers, Knohl contends...

The slaying of Simon, or any case of the suffering messiah, is seen as a necessary step toward national salvation, he says, pointing to lines 19 through 21 of the tablet "In three days you will know that evil will be defeated by justice" and other lines that speak of blood and slaughter as pathways to justice...

"This should shake our basic view of Christianity," he said as he sat in his office of the Shalom Hartman Institute in Jerusalem where he is a senior fellow in addition to being the Yehezkel Kaufman Professor of Biblical Studies at Hebrew University. "Resurrection after three days becomes a motif developed before Jesus, which runs contrary to nearly all scholarship. What happens in the New Testament was adopted by Jesus and his followers based on an earlier messiah story."...

Regarding Knohl's thesis, Bar-Asher is also respectful but cautious. "There is one problem," he said. "In crucial places of the text there is lack of text. I understand Knohl's tendency to find there keys to the pre-Christian period, but in two to three crucial lines of text there are a lot of missing words."...

Knohl said that it was less important whether Simon was the messiah of the stone than the fact that it strongly suggested that a savior who died and rose after three days was an established concept at the time of Jesus. He notes that in the Gospels, Jesus makes numerous predictions of his suffering and New Testament scholars say such predictions must have been written in by later followers because there was no such idea present in his day.

Jerome Gibbons
07-07-2008, 07:48 PM
Yeah, read through it a couple hours ago. Very interesting. I admit I'd never considered the idea of the political climate of the time influencing the idea of the Jewish Messiah.

PimpSlapStick!
07-07-2008, 07:49 PM
Resurrection everybodies doing it


Peer pressure

RickLM
07-07-2008, 07:52 PM
Just on a quick read, I don't understand how this would "shake" Christian tradition. It actually seems to further confirm Christianity's claims that the Old Testament predicted key details about Christ's birth, life, death and resurrection.

mike black
07-07-2008, 07:54 PM
Just on a quick read, I don't understand how this would "shake" Christian tradition. It actually seems to further confirm Christianity's claims that the Old Testament predicted key details about Christ's birth, life, death and resurrection.

I see where you're coming from, and that was how I read it during the first few pages. But it goes on to say that the messiah in question already lived, that his name was Simon, and that this was a recounting of events, not a prophecy.

So, while it at first looks like it's predicting the birth of Christ, in actuality it's saying that the Messiah had already come and gone, and that many of the events we ascribe to Jesus' life actually happened to someone else.

RickLM
07-07-2008, 07:56 PM
I see where you're coming from, and that was how I read it during the first few pages. But it goes on to say that the messiah in question already lived, that his name was Simon, and that this was a recounting of events, not a prophecy.

So, while it at first looks like it's predicting the birth of Christ, in actuality it's saying that the Messiah had already come and gone, and that many of the events we ascribe to Jesus' life actually happened to someone else.



Then this must be a breakaway sect, because mainstream Judaism is still waiting for a Messiah.

Modok Gas
07-07-2008, 07:56 PM
Christianity views an Old Testament book (the book of Isaiah) as predicting a suffering savior. That book was written in 8th century BC which pre-dates the tablet in the article by 6 centuries.

WillieLee
07-07-2008, 08:14 PM
It's almost like the Jesus myth was an amalgamation of several belief systems!

nick maynard
07-07-2008, 08:16 PM
over the hundreds of years, dozens of people were propped up as the messiah though. this is just one more guy on a list of many would-be saviors.

Jef UK
07-07-2008, 08:21 PM
Rising from the dead after 3 days is a common heroic myth not particular to Jesus.

Jonny Z
07-07-2008, 08:22 PM
the way I see it, there was once a Jew- let's call him Grant- who created a whole story about a messiah. And then several years later, 2 other Jews- let's call them Andy and Larry- pretty much copied that story word for word and pretended it was their own.

WillieLee
07-07-2008, 08:30 PM
the way I see it, there was once a Jew- let's call him Grant- who created a whole story about a messiah. And then several years later, 2 other Jews- let's call them Andy and Larry- pretty much copied that story word for word and pretended it was their own.

O&A are jewish?

FredC
07-07-2008, 08:40 PM
Of course he's the messiah! And I should know, I've followed a few!