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View Full Version : Hgh mpg used cars better than hybrids



ClintP
05-21-2008, 07:02 AM
Pretty interesting article on wired (http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/05/the-ultimate-pr.html).

I still don't know what the big fuss is over some of the hybrids, because like the article says, back in the day there were cars getting high 30's low 40's. I would think the hybrids now should be getting nearly 60 or 70 mpg since they had high mileage cars back in the day.

Ben
05-21-2008, 07:39 AM
How do used hybrids compare?

ClintP
05-21-2008, 07:42 AM
How do used hybrids compare?

:lol: Excellent I guess!

MIKE D
05-21-2008, 07:44 AM
They make a great point about the PRODUCTION of the cars. Used cars are a form of recycling.

Ryan F
05-21-2008, 07:45 AM
I've always gotten high 30s (or even 40+) in my '95 Toyota Corolla.

ClintP
05-21-2008, 07:46 AM
They make a great point about the PRODUCTION of the cars. Used cars are a form of recycling.

Yeah, that is a point a lot of people miss be it making car or anything else. The energy and materials used to produce things often gets overlooked. Ethanol would be the main example of this.

Jason California
05-21-2008, 08:44 AM
You should have bought a used bike too.

Ben
05-21-2008, 08:48 AM
Yeah, that is a point a lot of people miss be it making car or anything else. The energy and materials used to produce things often gets overlooked. Ethanol would be the main example of this.But in order to have a used car you first need to make a new car. I'd rather that new car driving around is a hybrid.

Skatonic10
05-21-2008, 08:56 AM
All I know is that I used to drive a 4cyl Tacoma, and I got 16mpg. Now I have a hybrid Escape, and I get 26mpg. So, I'm sticking with the hybrid.

sharp1
05-21-2008, 09:06 AM
Plus the Prius and Hybrid Civic have been around a while, so those would be on the used market now as well.

And since green is not the only criteria in selecting a car, what about the reliability of a 1985 Chevette, or 1994 Geo Metro? This is why people often want new (or at least newER) cars.

I personally factor more in the equation than how green a car is (and I drive a 2003 Hybrid Civic that I bought new.)

glk
05-21-2008, 09:18 AM
Plus the Prius and Hybrid Civic have been around a while, so those would be on the used market now as well.

And since green is not the only criteria in selecting a car, what about the reliability of a 1985 Chevette, or 1994 Geo Metro? This is why people often want new (or at least newER) cars.

I personally factor more in the equation than how green a car is (and I drive a 2003 Hybrid Civic that I bought new.)

I've looked at buying a certified pre-owned Prius, and they are nearly the same price as a new one! Toyotas really hold their value, but man...

ClintP
05-21-2008, 09:25 AM
I've looked at buying a certified pre-owned Prius, and they are nearly the same price as a new one! Toyotas really hold their value, but man...

I think between being a Toyota, the raising gas prices, and the fact that the new ones are not staying on the lots very long would factor into the high used prices. I think that as gas prices keep going up, more people are going to be driving smaller cars out of necessity.

ClintP
05-21-2008, 09:25 AM
You should have bought a used bike too.

I rode a used bike for the last 15 years. I wanted a GOOD one this time. :)

Doc Randy
05-21-2008, 09:39 AM
All I know is that I used to drive a 4cyl Tacoma, and I got 16mpg. Now I have a hybrid Escape, and I get 26mpg. So, I'm sticking with the hybrid.

That's funny because I am looking at buying a mid-80s Toyota pickup with a 4cyl 22R engine. They get over 20mpg and are some of the most reliable vehicles ever made.

I am tired of engineered obsolescence. As much as I like the idea of a hybrid, they are one of the most extreme examples of engineered obsolescence I can think of.

Skatonic10
05-21-2008, 09:55 AM
That's funny because I am looking at buying a mid-80s Toyota pickup with a 4cyl 22R engine. They get over 20mpg and are some of the most reliable vehicles ever made.

I am tired of engineered obsolescence. As much as I like the idea of a hybrid, they are one of the most extreme examples of engineered obsolescence I can think of.

Don't get me wrong - my tacoma was awesome. I loved the hell out of it. It was durable as all get out. But over 20mpgs? Good luck with that. The sticker on my car said 18 city, 22 highway. I usually averaged about 16.

You gotta explain engineered obsolecense. Words like that make us simple folk confused.

ClintP
05-21-2008, 09:57 AM
You gotta explain engineered obsolecense. Words like that make us simple folk confused.

Yeah, no kidding. Us backwater folk need our hands held with those school words.

Skatonic10
05-21-2008, 10:03 AM
As far as the article in the initial post goes - its the biggest load of BS I've ever heard. Lets say you buy a 97 tercel. That car is already 11 years old. Even the most durable of cars isn't going to last you more than 15 years without a lot of major work. If it hasn't had any major upkeep work done on it yet, prepare to start spending more on repairs than you would on the car itself. Making new after market parts has to spend almost as much energy as making parts for a new car, so why bother?

Also, the emissions requirements from 11 years ago are a lot higher than they are now. So even though you are getting better mileage, you aren't neceisarily putting out cleaner exhaust.

Doc Randy
05-21-2008, 10:03 AM
The problem I have with Hybrids is that you can't work on them. You can't tinker with it in your garage. You can't fix one if it breaks down on the side of the road. You are permanently dependent on a certified dealer's service center for all maintenance and repairs.

Now if you take an old Toyota pickup (not a Tacoma) with a 22R engine, you can fix everything yourself. It is a clean simple engine that is practically indestructible and super easy to work on. If you watch the news, you see these vehicles in every shithole in the world being used by terrorists and paramilitaries. Why? Because they are super reliable and rugged.

The total cost of ownership of a 22R equipped Toyota is significantly less to the user and the environment than a modern hybrid. They will run forever. Maybe an engine rebuild every 200k miles.

Does anybody expect current hybrids to be running in 30 years?

ClintP
05-21-2008, 10:07 AM
The problem I have with Hybrids is that you can't work on them. You can't tinker with it in your garage. You can't fix one if it breaks down on the side of the road. You are permanently dependent on a certified dealer's service center for all maintenance and repairs.

Now if you take an old Toyota pickup (not a Tacoma) with a 22R engine, you can fix everything yourself. It is a clean simple engine that is practically indestructible and super easy to work on.

The total cost of ownership of a 22R equipped Toyota is significantly less to the user and the environment than a modern hybrid. They will run forever.

Does anybody expect current hybrids to be running in 30 years?

Ok, I gotcha. I completely agree about not being able to work on them and being a car dude it does kind of bother me. I also don't know how long a lot of those parts are going to last and how expensive they will be to replace them. The fact that they work and give great mileage is cool now, but what about in 5-10 years? Not only do they have an engine and transmission (the two biggest current expenses when it goes out), but they have whatever else it takes to make them a hybrid. That just sounds expensive to me.

Albert
05-21-2008, 10:12 AM
I have a Prius and I love it, never had a problem with it. I feel compelled to say that in every thread about hybrids!

JHester
05-21-2008, 10:23 AM
I want one of these.
http://www.PiaggioUSA.com/Photos/images/m500_blk2.jpg
Over 130 MPG and looks like something Batman would ride. Sweet.
Heres the site: http://www.piaggiousa.com/pScooters/MP3500.cfm

ClintP
05-21-2008, 10:26 AM
I want one of these.
http://www.PiaggioUSA.com/Photos/images/m500_blk2.jpg
Over 130 MPG and looks like something Batman would ride. Sweet.
Heres the site: http://www.piaggiousa.com/pScooters/MP3500.cfm
Kind of looks like it would transform. I wonder what kind of weapons it would have. :)

JHester
05-21-2008, 10:30 AM
Flamethrower and High Density Laser.