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View Full Version : What would have to be done in order to make Longshot a good character?



seeg
05-06-2008, 11:00 AM
What would it take to make Longshot a good, or at least accepted or liked, character? On various message boards, this character is most hated. Most places on the net, Longshot is trashed and doesn't really have that many fans (even then, it is very few).

Case in point...

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=217955

The general consensus is that he's garbage and, to tell you the truth, even I really don't think he's been written all that well throughout his publication history. Even when it was revealed that Longshot would be joining X-Factor, a number of people were disgusted said they would even drop the book. What are some of the negative aspects of this character? What would have to be done to get him up to at least Wolverine or Spidey-level popularity?

Roman Noodles
05-06-2008, 11:03 AM
I never understood the hate for Longshot. :no:
Now, I don't like the character, but that's because I don't feel the character's ever been truly fleshed out. And if there's anyone who can do something with him it's David.

On a side note, I enjoyed the Ultimate Longshot arc in Utimate X-Men, so it can be done.

Gavin
05-06-2008, 11:03 AM
I liked Longshot in the Ultimate X-Men arc, Magnetic North, I think.

NickT
05-06-2008, 11:04 AM
Haircut.

Roman Noodles
05-06-2008, 11:05 AM
I liked Longshot in the Ultimate X-Men arc, Magnetic North, I think.

Oh yeah, he was in that too. Yep.

He was cool in Ultimate X-Men, and David is just as good a writer as Vaughn. So I have faith that he knows what he's doing. I mean, come on, did anyone think that Layla Miller would ever amount to anything?

EdNEMO
05-06-2008, 11:07 AM
He needs a good writer. I too liked him in Ultimate X-Men. But he sucked in Exiles.

TIP
05-06-2008, 11:08 AM
The best thing (that I can remember) about Longshot was the art of Arthur Adams (the mini...I never read anything else with the character in it).

T

Roman Noodles
05-06-2008, 11:09 AM
He needs a good writer. I too liked him in Ultimate X-Men. But he sucked in Exiles.

Everyone sucks in Exiles now. :(

EdNEMO
05-06-2008, 11:11 AM
Everyone sucks in Exiles now. :(

Agreed. Come back Judd!

The Human Target
05-06-2008, 11:11 AM
A fourth finger on each hand would help.

I think what really hurts him are his connections to the hated Mojoverse.

Make him a mutant from Earth and he would have gone over better.

Roman Noodles
05-06-2008, 11:13 AM
A fourth finger on each hand would help.

I think what really hurts him are his connections to the hated Mojoverse.

Make him a mutant from Earth and he would have gone over better.

Yep, channel a little Ultimate Longshot. They can still fix him with a little retconning and retooling.

yeamon
05-06-2008, 11:19 AM
I personally loved the first mini that introduced him in the 80's. As an off-beat stand-alone, I thought the character and the story really worked.

I never bought him in the X-Men books. It seemed like the character was being shoe-horned in somewhere he didn't belong.

Roman Noodles
05-06-2008, 11:24 AM
I personally loved the first mini that introduced him in the 80's. As an off-beat stand-alone, I thought the character and the story really worked.

I never bought him in the X-Men books. It seemed like the character was being shoe-horned in somewhere he didn't belong.



Yeah, when I read his first appearance, I was like: WTF? Some guy with 4 fingers magically pops into your mansion and he's instantly a member?


He was supposed to be like a Carol Danvers non mutant character I think, but it didn't work because he didn't have any ties to the X-Men.

nihilance
05-06-2008, 11:30 AM
I personally loved the first mini that introduced him in the 80's. As an off-beat stand-alone, I thought the character and the story really worked.

I never bought him in the X-Men books. It seemed like the character was being shoe-horned in somewhere he didn't belong.

True...he did seem shoe-horned in...but his introduction led to Mojo being an x-foe who reappeared from time to time (and even made it into the Genesis game).

yeamon
05-06-2008, 11:34 AM
True...he did seem shoe-horned in...but his introduction led to Mojo being an x-foe who reappeared from time to time (and even made it into the Genesis game).

Yeah, and I liked Mojo and that whole universe as it was presented in Ann Nocenti's original story. It just seemed more strange and menacing in the stand-alone mini. Bringing it into the X-books took a lot of that appeal away.

chess
05-06-2008, 11:35 AM
Longshot was Art Adams debut. We like Art Adams. I could care less about Longshort and his 4 fingered hands.

Fake Pat
05-06-2008, 11:36 AM
Nothing.

He is a good character.

Christopher Brian
05-06-2008, 11:38 AM
Same thing it took for Luke Cage, Jessica Drew, Danny Rand, etc... "good" characters(and for the record I think he's a misused GREAT character).

A writer to take the time to develop him.

altonralston
05-06-2008, 11:44 AM
I really liked Longshot from Uncanny #218 - 243 (the end of the Inferno run). After that, bleh. That whole time period of uncanny was excellent. Longshot was a nice complementary player.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o306/altonralston/silvestri.jpg

seeg
05-06-2008, 12:21 PM
A fourth finger on each hand would help.

I think what really hurts him are his connections to the hated Mojoverse.

Make him a mutant from Earth and he would have gone over better.

I don't know. People seem to like Spiral.

Buk Was Right
05-06-2008, 12:25 PM
I think also his powers are hard to grasp/illustrate visually.

He's really lucky? How do you draw that and make it look cool?

Roman Noodles
05-06-2008, 12:28 PM
I think also his powers are hard to grasp/illustrate visually.

He's really lucky? How do you draw that and make it look cool?

Actually, they've addressed this in Amazing Fantasy with a character named Vegas. His powers are similar to Longshot. But instead of just generating luck, he can actually siphon it from other people. For example: If he flips a coin and then calls "side" the coin WILL land on it's side. But someone in close proximity will have a spell of bad luck equal to the spell of GOOD luck he had. It was a very interesting power. I hope to see the character resurface.

HomerGator
05-06-2008, 12:45 PM
I would give him to Peter David, and let HIM make Longshot cool.

Dreg
05-06-2008, 12:45 PM
He's already a great character. The only thing that should be done to make him even greater is to sever all his ties to the X-Men.

bartleby
05-06-2008, 12:47 PM
I would give him to Peter David, and let HIM make Longshot cool.

I'm pretty sure that's happening, isn't it?

Buk Was Right
05-06-2008, 12:52 PM
Actually, they've addressed this in Amazing Fantasy with a character named Vegas. His powers are similar to Longshot. But instead of just generating luck, he can actually siphon it from other people. For example: If he flips a coin and then calls "side" the coin WILL land on it's side. But someone in close proximity will have a spell of bad luck equal to the spell of GOOD luck he had. It was a very interesting power. I hope to see the character resurface.

Yeah... that just makes it more complicated.

You have a sort of vague amorphous power and then you try and make it more accessible by putting specific rules on it, but that just makes it more ridiculous.

It's D&D syndrome. I used to work with a guy at a comic shop, but I could never talk to him about some things because all he seemed concerned with was certain character's "stats" and crystal clear descriptions and limitations of the powers and how they compared to other characters and their powers.

Kedd
05-06-2008, 01:02 PM
Shave his head, turn him black, give him an eye patch and have Sam Jackson play him in a Cameo in the Iron Man movie and Longshot will officially be interesting to me. Or put him in PAD's Xfactor

iGotKittyPryde
05-06-2008, 01:31 PM
Nothing.

He is a good character.

Yeah, he's theoretically a good character, if people mess him up from time to time, well that's too bad. But the original mini is generally well remembered and I generally find him a fun character.

I think the answer to 'how do you make character x a good character' is 'write him/her entertainingly and in character'

I'm not one to say there aren't ANY bad characters but there are few unreedemable ones and Longshot is nowhere near that bad.

seeg
05-06-2008, 02:34 PM
Nothing.

He is a good character.
He might be, but the majority of readers don't seem to see it that way. Any ideas on fixing this?


I think also his powers are hard to grasp/illustrate visually.

He's really lucky? How do you draw that and make it look cool?

Good question, really. This has led to his luck powers not "defining" him as much when compared to his psychometry or agility.

Any suggestions?

Zac Goyette
05-06-2008, 02:49 PM
Haircut.

Yeah. I like the character a lot, but the mullet must go.

ZombieSpeedball
05-06-2008, 02:51 PM
My bigger issue the the hate for Jubilee. I like Jubilee.

seeg
05-06-2008, 06:34 PM
Yeah. I like the character a lot, but the mullet must go.

That probably might help a little.

They've actually drawn him with just long hair at times. I don't know why artists keep reverting it to the mullet.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/9048/longshotoneshotuv9.th.jpg (http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=longshotoneshotuv9.jpg)
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1944/mcp16midnightoilne4.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mcp16midnightoilne4.jpg)
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2707/mcp16sleepymx1.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mcp16sleepymx1.jpg)

NickT
05-06-2008, 06:39 PM
They've actually drawn him with just long hair at times. I don't know why artists keep reverting it to the mullet.

Nostalgia.


The fact that characters will inevitably go back to their old "classic" look nine times out of ten isn't that big a deal. HOWEVER, sometimes a character never leaves the fashion styles of that time behind, and that's a bad thing. It's only hurting the character when they are stuck looking like a 70s/80s reject.

niceguyeddie
05-06-2008, 06:40 PM
i don't feel one way or another for the character but like any other character i think it just needs the right writer.

Ryan F
05-06-2008, 06:59 PM
I started reading X-Men (and comics in general) when he was on the team, and he used to be one of my favorite characters. Since, I've soured on him, but I think if anyone can save him, it's PAD.

altonralston
05-07-2008, 12:19 PM
He had more than luck. Remember, his bones were hollow which allowed him to jump, run, and generally move with ease. So, he had that going for him. Great luck / accuracy with anything in his hand similar to Bullseye. I think what's really hurt him is that he's always been written as an airhead. He's like the stereotypical blond woman in the jokes except he's a guy that's supposed to be a hero a team needs to rely upon.

seeg
05-07-2008, 12:19 PM
Speaking of writing, does anyone have any ideas on the interesting ways his powers (especially the luck) could be written?

Jef UK
05-07-2008, 12:25 PM
I always enjoyed his alien naivete back in the Outback X-Men days.

A proper exploration of the Mojoverse would be rad. Pure gonzo sci-fi. No earth bullshit. Find the slums, the societies, everything. What's the planet look like?

seeg
05-07-2008, 03:08 PM
I always enjoyed his alien naivete back in the Outback X-Men days.

A proper exploration of the Mojoverse would be rad. Pure gonzo sci-fi. No earth bullshit. Find the slums, the societies, everything. What's the planet look like?

That might be nice too. The Mojoverse hasn't really been delved into in the past and in the little times it has, it's been written as a joke.

Matt C. Linton
05-07-2008, 03:15 PM
What would it take to make Longshot a good, or at least accepted or liked, character? On various message boards, this character is most hated. Most places on the net, Longshot is trashed and doesn't really have that many fans (even then, it is very few).

Case in point...

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=217955

The general consensus is that he's garbage and, to tell you the truth, even I really don't think he's been written all that well throughout his publication history. Even when it was revealed that Longshot would be joining X-Factor, a number of people were disgusted said they would even drop the book. What are some of the negative aspects of this character? What would have to be done to get him up to at least Wolverine or Spidey-level popularity?

Keep him far away from the X-Books and use the original miniseries as a template for how to write the character, and a new series. I really think it's that easy.

Updating his look (lose the mullet, modify the leather jumpsuit) to look less 90s (I know it predates that, and really inspired a lot of those costumes, but still) would help.

nick maynard
05-07-2008, 04:01 PM
i say, house of m: longshot!

you can pit longshot against scarlet witch. the guy with good luck versus the lady who changes luck. its a good match up.

UltimateQuintessa
05-07-2008, 04:03 PM
Longshot hated? That's news to me.

There are more characters much lamer than him out there.

Like Geldoff.

SteveZegers
05-07-2008, 04:20 PM
I always liked him. Interesting powers.

seeg
05-07-2008, 05:01 PM
Keep him far away from the X-Books and use the original miniseries as a template for how to write the character, and a new series. I really think it's that easy.

Updating his look (lose the mullet, modify the leather jumpsuit) to look less 90s (I know it predates that, and really inspired a lot of those costumes, but still) would help.

How would that series need to be written? Do you know who would be a good writer for that book?


Longshot hated? That's news to me.

There are more characters much lamer than him out there.

Like Geldoff.
True, but almost everywhere, I continually read "Longshot" and "worst X-Men/X-character ever" in the same sentence. Or at least in threads with those topic titles.

Mattman
05-07-2008, 05:33 PM
I can remember back in the 80's, just after the mini-series (which rocks BTW if you can find it) when he joined the X-Men, he was hugely popular. I think he's such a strange character that most writers aren't sure what to do with him.

majorjoe23
05-07-2008, 05:34 PM
More fingers.

Matt C. Linton
05-07-2008, 06:58 PM
How would that series need to be written? Do you know who would be a good writer for that book?

I'd do it as a variation on The Fugitive or the Incredible Hulk TV series (or a slightly cosmic "Hellblazer" and have Longshot wandering from town to town, getting involved in local problems and helping folks out.

As for writers, Zeb Wells could do it, based on his Amazing Spider-Man arc, where he introduced a cool villain and a funny supporting character (the homeless guy).

Actually, I'd kill for Wells and Bachalo on a Longshot ongoing.

Icaruss
05-07-2008, 07:01 PM
As some have already pointed, he was already made a good character. By Brian K. Vaughn. In Ultimate X-Men.

John M. Coker (Johnny C.)
05-07-2008, 07:19 PM
Longshot needs 2 things-

1- Brubaker

2- Fraction

Mike McNeely
05-07-2008, 07:22 PM
I like Longshot.

seeg
05-08-2008, 04:41 AM
I'd do it as a variation on The Fugitive or the Incredible Hulk TV series (or a slightly cosmic "Hellblazer" and have Longshot wandering from town to town, getting involved in local problems and helping folks out.

As for writers, Zeb Wells could do it, based on his Amazing Spider-Man arc, where he introduced a cool villain and a funny supporting character (the homeless guy).

Actually, I'd kill for Wells and Bachalo on a Longshot ongoing.

That seems like a good idea.

Also, it's been mentioned that there is only one Mojoverse and that only one version of a Mojoverse inhabitant exists. Yet there have been versions of Longshot in alternate universe stories and members of the Exlies had noted that Longshot had been in each of their X-Men teams. I would like to see some explanation for this. This could probably tie into the constant mindwiping. I would be interesting to see some of or what was in those memories of Longshot that were erased. In his first mini it was also stated he had a family before the first mindwipe. I would like to see what became of them.


As some have already pointed, he was already made a good character. By Brian K. Vaughn. In Ultimate X-Men.

I keep seeing Ultimate Longshot being mentioned, but he's a villain. Would there be any way to translate some of the Ultimate Longshot characteristics to the hero 616 Longshot?

SteveZegers
05-08-2008, 04:48 AM
True, but almost everywhere, I continually read "Longshot" and "worst X-Men/X-character ever" in the same sentence. Or at least in threads with those topic titles.

How quickly people forget Maggot.

seeg
05-08-2008, 07:48 AM
How quickly people forget Maggot.

Yeah it's pretty bad.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=207839

(although I kind of think Maggot's okay)

sharp1
05-08-2008, 08:26 AM
I am a HUGE fan of Longshot. (Probably partly because his X-Men annual was one of my first super-hero comics, and did feature Arthur Adams). I actually buy his appearances like people did appearances of Ghost Rider in 1990.

I think part of the problem may be that the Mojoverse has been used as a joke too often. In the miniseries and X-Men annual 10 (plus New Mutants Annual 3), Mojo was downright terrifying. Subsequent appearances have either been "funny" or given the short end of the stick.

I think Peter David could do something good with Longshot and the Mojoverse. I agree with the previous post that there is lots of room to flesh out the Mojoverse. Pete has been good about combining humor, drama and action, so this could work out well.

But I agree. LOSE THE MULLET. The black leather is sort of a costume, so that's not too dated, but for goodness sake, LOSE THE FRIGGIN MULLET!

modungo
05-08-2008, 09:23 AM
The best thing (that I can remember) about Longshot was the art of Arthur Adams (the mini...I never read anything else with the character in it).

T

Awesome mini. One of my favorites from when i was a kid. He had his own cool little mythology and corner of the Marvel U that kinda got co-opted by the X-Men.