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TheTravis!
03-30-2008, 12:47 PM
I wasn't a big fan of Bendis' initial idea for New Avengers. I'm an old school fan, and wanted to see Bendis' take on "MY" Avengers. Vision, Hawkeye, Black Knight, etc. So I was a little underwhelmed with the "New Avengers" lineup.

I was totally wrong, of course. New Avengers won me over 1,000% and became my favorite book.

But still, based on my preferences, and the characters I truly loved, when I heard about Mighty Avengers, I was SURE that it was going to blow NA out of the water in my personal pantheon of love.

But.... not so much. It's not that I'm not enjoying MA. It's just that I think, compared to NA, it's weak sauce.

Maybe I just don't understand how thought baloons are supposed to work. *shrug*.

Kingsumo
03-30-2008, 12:52 PM
I don't think it is the thought baloons. I read, and love both. However, the overall story and writing on NA is still prefered over Mighty, and I am one of the people that actually like that Bendis brought back the thought baloons.

Lord Jermaine Retail
03-30-2008, 12:53 PM
I wasn't a big fan of Bendis' initial idea for New Avengers. I'm an old school fan, and wanted to see Bendis' take on "MY" Avengers. Vision, Hawkeye, Black Knight, etc. So I was a little underwhelmed with the "New Avengers" lineup.

I was totally wrong, of course. New Avengers won me over 1,000% and became my favorite book.

But still, based on my preferences, and the characters I truly loved, when I heard about Mighty Avengers, I was SURE that it was going to blow NA out of the water in my personal pantheon of love.

But.... not so much. It's not that I'm not enjoying MA. It's just that I think, compared to NA, it's weak sauce.

Maybe I just don't understand how thought baloons are supposed to work. *shrug*.

Well, the first arc (when read together) is a real knockout. And the current bit with Doctor Doom has been really cool too, but even still the Mighty Avengers aren't the old school Avengers. Its something different. In the full history of the title though there have been many shake ups (ones that are classic to us now, but were no doubt uncertain and jarring to readers then) and this is the latest in the ongoing saga. You're probably like me in waiting for the full-on united Earth's Mightiest Heroes to be possible. I would think that is where we're eventually headed.

Jerome Gibbons
03-30-2008, 12:54 PM
When I was reading both books, I tended to prefer NA because I liked those characters more. Plus their plight seemed a little more interesting.

MA had the awesome Cho art, though. Oh, how awesome it was...

NickT
03-30-2008, 12:55 PM
I wasn't a big fan of Bendis' initial idea for New Avengers.
Really? I seem to remember you keeping that so quiet! ;)



Maybe I just don't understand how thought baloons are supposed to work. *shrug*.I think they're getting better, but I'm still not 100% sold.

Matthew
03-30-2008, 12:55 PM
Maybe I just don't understand how thought baloons are supposed to work. *shrug*.

They don't work. They are almost as annoying as a Thor writer who likes to go overboard on the "THEE"s and "THOU"s.

I don't need a thought balloon of the Black Widow thinking "SHIT!". I just don't.

TheTravis!
03-30-2008, 12:56 PM
Really? I seem to remember you keeping that so quiet! ;) I



Hardy farty har!

TheTravis!
03-30-2008, 12:57 PM
They don't work. They are almost as annoying as a Thor writer who likes to go overboard on the "THEE"s and "THOU"s.

I don't need a thought balloon of the Black Widow thinking "SHIT!". I just don't.

I read that really quick and saw "Black Widow taking a shit".

Supreme Convoy
03-30-2008, 12:58 PM
I like both titles... but I like New Avengers more. Pablo's right, that book is interesting to read now given their situation and place in the Marvel Universe.

Kingsumo
03-30-2008, 12:58 PM
I read that really quick and saw "Black Widow taking a shit".

There is part of me that is a little surprised that hasn't come up yet.

Matthew
03-30-2008, 12:59 PM
I read that really quick and saw "Black Widow taking a shit".

I don't need that either.

adam_warlock_2099
03-30-2008, 01:00 PM
I wasn't a big fan of Bendis' initial idea for New Avengers. I'm an old school fan, and wanted to see Bendis' take on "MY" Avengers. Vision, Hawkeye, Black Knight, etc. So I was a little underwhelmed with the "New Avengers" lineup.

I was totally wrong, of course. New Avengers won me over 1,000% and became my favorite book.

But still, based on my preferences, and the characters I truly loved, when I heard about Mighty Avengers, I was SURE that it was going to blow NA out of the water in my personal pantheon of love.

But.... not so much. It's not that I'm not enjoying MA. It's just that I think, compared to NA, it's weak sauce.

Maybe I just don't understand how thought baloons are supposed to work. *shrug*.

Do you kid's comic books nowadays not use thought ballons?

:no: Go out and get Fantasy Masterpiece reprints of the original Silver Surfer series.

TheTravis!
03-30-2008, 01:02 PM
I like both titles... but I like New Avengers more. Pablo's right, that book is interesting to read now given their situation and place in the Marvel Universe.

There you go.

Brad N.
03-30-2008, 01:05 PM
For me New Avengers WAS one of my favorite titles for a long time. I really enjoyed the first arc on Mighty Avengers too, but the Venom arc started sliding a bit for me and that first Dr. Doom issue for me was tough to read. It just didn't work for me. I did pick up the last two issues though and I figured I at least would give them a shot to see if it gets better. For me on New Avengers everything has been excellent with the exception of the last issue or two. It's funny how excited I am for Secret Invasion but the lead-in books haven't really been wow-ing me yet. Don't get me wrong, they're not bad books, but both New and Mighty Avengers could be better than where they are right now IMO.

Dave S.
03-30-2008, 01:05 PM
I think NA works better with long drawn-out arcs.

But Mighty Avengers is meant to be action packed, kick-ass, saving-the-world-every-night shit, and when it's decompressed Bendis-style, it loses something.

Kingsumo
03-30-2008, 01:15 PM
I think NA works better with long drawn-out arcs.

But Mighty Avengers is meant to be action packed, kick-ass, saving-the-world-every-night shit, and when it's decompressed Bendis-style, it loses something.

I think you pretty well have it there. And depending on your tastes, you will typically prefer one over the other.

bradical
03-30-2008, 01:17 PM
neither has lived up to their potential, but both are pretty good books. just could be better.

Jerome Gibbons
03-30-2008, 01:22 PM
neither has lived up to their potential

I agree with this.


NA, especially, since it's been going for so long now. I thought it was okay, but...nowhere near as good as it could have been.

PhoenixFactor
03-30-2008, 02:04 PM
New Avengers has a much more grounded feel for me compared to Mighty Avengers. I think thats why I like both but enjoy New more. Echoing what was said above, i'd like to see mighty deal in one or two issue arcs, to see if its the long arcs that make it less enjoyable.

NickT
03-30-2008, 02:06 PM
I love NA, but I think I'd love it more were the art team consistent.


MA was a bit hit and miss, but it's improving as it goes.

Nick MB
03-30-2008, 02:13 PM
I love NA, but I think I'd love it more were the art team consistent.


Echo. (No, not her.)

I'm kinda hoping that Yu will return to NA full-time once he's done on Secret Invasion, it's been great having a full year with him.

Patton
03-30-2008, 02:18 PM
I liked the first arc of MA okay but since then I haven't been able to get into it. But once the SI tie-ins start I'm back in.

NickT
03-30-2008, 02:24 PM
Echo. (No, not her.)

I'm kinda hoping that Yu will return to NA full-time once he's done on Secret Invasion, it's been great having a full year with him.
Agreed.

Foolish Mortal
03-30-2008, 03:13 PM
I've been enjoying the hell out of Mighty Avengers. Mainly because I like the Sentry, Ms. Marvel, and lots of action.

I'm glad Bendis finally seems to have found Sentry's "voice".

New Avengers hasn't quite as much fun for me to read due to Dr. Strange leaving. But they still have Cage and that's good enough.

Michael John Wheeler
03-30-2008, 03:35 PM
New Avengers has all the Marvel characters in it that I like best (with the notable exception of Daredevil).

John M. Coker (Johnny C.)
03-30-2008, 03:44 PM
I love NA, but I think I'd love it more were the art team consistent.

I can't really say that I agree. Because that means we would have missed the Maleev Wanda/Clint issue, the Coipel Spider-Woman issue, the Gaydos Jess issue, the Mack Echo issue, and if we throw in MA, the upcoming Maleev issues. And all of those were gorgeous issues. I love the idea of one artists for longer arcs, and then bringing in special guest stars for 1 to 3 issue stories.

Simps
03-30-2008, 03:49 PM
They don't work. They are almost as annoying as a Thor writer who likes to go overboard on the "THEE"s and "THOU"s.

I don't need a thought balloon of the Black Widow thinking "SHIT!". I just don't.
I disagree. Just because I don't NEED them, I think it works in a way I hadn't seen before. I think it went a little overboard at the beginning, but I think Bendis found a good middle ground on them more recently.

NickT
03-30-2008, 03:55 PM
I can't really say that I agree. Because that means we would have missed the Maleev Wanda/Clint issue, the Coipel Spider-Woman issue, the Gaydos Jess issue, the Mack Echo issue, and if we throw in MA, the upcoming Maleev issues. And all of those were gorgeous issues. I love the idea of one artists for longer arcs, and then bringing in special guest stars for 1 to 3 issue stories.
But nothing you mention was before issue 23, at which point we had been on Something like eight artist changes :)


The occasional issue (Or arc of issues) by special guests is cool, I agree. But when that's not happening I like to have some consistency.

Simps
03-30-2008, 03:55 PM
I love NA, but I think I'd love it more were the art team consistent.
Me too. I understand the idea behind the rotating teams, but I just don't like it, even though it's been great artists working on the title. It's jarring for me to have a new artist on each arc, and it sort of undermines big story points and when you do have the occasional guest artist. As phenomenal as Maleev's NA #26 was, I think it would have stood out more had there not been 8 different artists on the previous 25 issues.

jason hissong
03-30-2008, 04:09 PM
Someday I'm going to have to get these OHC.

Disassembled
House of M
The NA/MA volumes.

Bendis does good work. I just don't ever read it.

TheKraken
03-30-2008, 04:09 PM
I didn't have a problem with the thought balloons from the first issue. I'm not sure why people are so turned off by them. Especially now. Every thought balloon could be evidence. :)

New Avengers has the outlaw underdog thing going for it, so I think it almost has to be more exciting. There's a much bigger sense of unpredictability in that situation. So I'm not surprised to see poeple saying it's their favorite, even if they're more interested in a more "classic" team line-up and approach.

Personally, I think the first arc of Mighty was just okay while the current arc is really cool. The first story seemed too slow to me (probably not helped by the release schedule), filled with fun moments but not too exciting overall. The new version of Ultron and explanation for it didn't work for me, either. No matter how you explain it, it came off like an excuse for Cho to have a naked woman to draw for 6 issues, and it replaced a really iconic character design with... well, just some naked woman.

The current arc, however, is very fast-paced and has Doom. You can't go wrong with Doom, and I'm really pleased to see Bendis has a good feel for the character. I had my doubts since Bendis himself has admitted he's been leery of writing characters like Thor with very pronounced speech patterns, but I think his Doom is just fine, and some of the developments he's come up with in this arc are pretty cool and make sense for the character. And bringing the Skrull stuff into the book has given it some of the tension and unpredictable feeling that makes NA so much fun. Also, I am one of the apparently few people in internet fandom reasonable enough to see that Tony Stark isn't a villain, so I've got that going for me when I'm reading Mighty. :)

Lord Jermaine Retail
03-30-2008, 04:32 PM
For me New Avengers WAS one of my favorite titles for a long time. I really enjoyed the first arc on Mighty Avengers too, but the Venom arc started sliding a bit for me and that first Dr. Doom issue for me was tough to read. It just didn't work for me. I did pick up the last two issues though and I figured I at least would give them a shot to see if it gets better. For me on New Avengers everything has been excellent with the exception of the last issue or two. It's funny how excited I am for Secret Invasion but the lead-in books haven't really been wow-ing me yet. Don't get me wrong, they're not bad books, but both New and Mighty Avengers could be better than where they are right now IMO.

I thought the portion of the most recent issue where:

Ms. Marvel demands that Doom make with the usual super-villain speech but he does not do that. Rather he internalizes it all as thoughts and the reader gets to see what he would normally be saying were the situation not so abnormally out of his control was excellent.

Really strong moment for me both mechanically and character-wise.

nick maynard
03-30-2008, 04:49 PM
i love mighty avengers.

but, it could be SO much more than it is.

the mighty avengers should be the earth's mightiest heroes. and even though ultron "is" a pretty big bad guy, the hood felt so much more dangerous, and the stakes in that new avengers story felt SO much higher than the venom stuff.

bendis is probably the best in the game at stacking the odds miles high against the heroes. he really makes you feel like "holy shit, they are so screwed, i absolutely do not believe they will ever get out of this." and when they do win, i am actually amazed by the characters strength and ingenuity.

but i could not feel that LESS with mighty avengers. it's way too silly, way too light, way too comic booky.

they need to be on the front lines as the world's about to end. put new avengers against the hood, and on the run from shield, and put mighty avengers against galactus and an intentional dr. doom attack.

i mean, the fashion show thing for wonder man made me laugh, but come on.

mec
03-30-2008, 04:57 PM
In general, I'm a fan of both, and I like the thought balloons. At their best, they add another layer of character (in keeping with the way the best of them did the old days -- readers really knew, say, Cyclops through is thought balloons) and tension -- a character thinking one thing and doing or saying another, etc. At their worst, they're funny.

And Black Widow thinking, "shit," stood out to me, but now that I think about it, Black Widow is thinking, "shit," and that just seems kind of odd.

Joshzilla
03-30-2008, 05:52 PM
I'm with Trav. Something's off for me on MA. Like maybe it's too tongue in cheek or something. I dunno. I love NA a bunch, though.

ZombieSpeedball
03-30-2008, 06:02 PM
To tell the truth, I've kinda been looking forward to issues of MA more than issues of NA, which makes little sense to me due to how many characters I love being on the NA team. I think it's mainly because, due to the MA's team being in the position to handle the big threats, and the NA's team handling the Hood and, well, themselves. I also think it's due to the many losses the NA has suffered (Spider-Woman, Dr. Strange, Jessica Jones). Plus, MA has the Sentry, who is awesome to see go mental. If Bendis were to follow my idea of putting Cloak and Dagger on the NA, then maybe things would pick up some more. Not that I dislike NA; I still love the series. It's just that for me MA seems to be skyrocketing past it in general. I meant, Ultron, then Symbiotes, then Doom? Awesome.

Matthew
03-30-2008, 06:30 PM
I disagree. Just because I don't NEED them, I think it works in a way I hadn't seen before. I think it went a little overboard at the beginning, but I think Bendis found a good middle ground on them more recently.

Well, I just feel like either I should have an idea what the character is thinking based on what I know about the character and the story, and the artist should be able to convey thoughts moreso than a clunky looking thought balloon.

Like in the latest MA where...

they are captured in Doom's little place. Ms. Marvel says "UGH!" and the thought balloon says "WHERE ARE WE?" This is not needed. Of course you are wondering where you are. You just appeared in some weird place, floating in the air with purple shit holding you in the air. Of course you are wondering where are you. Plus, Bagley is skilled enough to make Ms. Marvel look like she's worried. I don't need the thought balloon there to convey that little bit of emotion to me.

Another one in the latest that just blew me away. I was sure it was put there just to piss me off:

In the very next page after that double page splash Ms. Marvel says "MY POWERS AREN'T WORKING." and connected to that SPEECH bubble is a THOUGHT bubble that says the exact. Same. Thing. She just said it! I know she is thinking it! It's just a waste of space. It doesn't have to be there.

So that's pretty much why I don't like them. They don't have to exist. They just take up space.

Andrew j
03-30-2008, 06:39 PM
I thought the portion of the most recent issue where:

Ms. Marvel demands that Doom make with the usual super-villain speech but he does not do that. Rather he internalizes it all as thoughts and the reader gets to see what he would normally be saying were the situation not so abnormally out of his control was excellent.

Really strong moment for me both mechanically and character-wise.

agreed. I'm enjoying the thought balloons.

Lord Jermaine Retail
03-30-2008, 07:01 PM
Well, I just feel like either I should have an idea what the character is thinking based on what I know about the character and the story, and the artist should be able to convey thoughts moreso than a clunky looking thought balloon.

Like in the latest MA where...

they are captured in Doom's little place. Ms. Marvel says "UGH!" and the thought balloon says "WHERE ARE WE?" This is not needed. Of course you are wondering where you are. You just appeared in some weird place, floating in the air with purple shit holding you in the air. Of course you are wondering where are you. Plus, Bagley is skilled enough to make Ms. Marvel look like she's worried. I don't need the thought balloon there to convey that little bit of emotion to me.

Another one in the latest that just blew me away. I was sure it was put there just to piss me off:

In the very next page after that double page splash Ms. Marvel says "MY POWERS AREN'T WORKING." and connected to that SPEECH bubble is a THOUGHT bubble that says the exact. Same. Thing. She just said it! I know she is thinking it! It's just a waste of space. It doesn't have to be there.

So that's pretty much why I don't like them. They don't have to exist. They just take up space.

I dunno, I might tend to disagree a little. Ms. Marvel's thoughts regarding not knowing where they were weren't unnecessary. As a reader I could assume that they were in the castle someplace or that it was somewhere the characters had been before. Now I know that their fearless leader didn't know where they were and internally came to the stark realization that her powers weren't working. And what is Ms. Marvel without her powerful powers, you know? It all worked out for me, especially the Doom part. The fact that he was not giving the villains speech and was instead being very direct was great. I'm a Doom fan and I'm saying that was great. Ares' thoughts were particularly puzzling though...

I love the Avengers books. They're the first thing I read once my work is done and NA is my best selling monthly title. My only issues though are that we have basically been watching the New Avengers barely hold together since Civil War and recently have been watching the dismantling of a team who still shows up in the same room together because they don't know what else to do. Interesting but also hard to watch in ways. And with the Mighty Avengers I fear that change is coming before I really got used to the team dynamics. But those things aside these are two of the series that I'm consistently satisfied with and look forward to.

Simps
03-30-2008, 07:16 PM
Another one in the latest that just blew me away. I was sure it was put there just to piss me off:

In the very next page after that double page splash Ms. Marvel says "MY POWERS AREN'T WORKING." and connected to that SPEECH bubble is a THOUGHT bubble that says the exact. Same. Thing. She just said it! I know she is thinking it! It's just a waste of space. It doesn't have to be there.

So that's pretty much why I don't like them. They don't have to exist. They just take up space.
That repetition reveals more about the character than you're taking it for. It's all about the inflection you read it with. The first one comes off strong, and informative from the leader of the team. The second one which she's thinking is her freaking out, like the insecure hero we've learned her to be. I think they reveal more than you give them credit for.

Matthew
03-30-2008, 07:18 PM
That repetition reveals more about the character than you're taking it for. It's all about the inflection you read it with. The first one comes off strong, and informative from the leader of the team. The second one which she's thinking is her freaking out, like the insecure hero we've learned her to be. I think they reveal more than you give them credit for.

No, that's how I read it. The thought is more panic-y sounding. I get it. I just don't think it needs to be there.

NickT
03-30-2008, 07:20 PM
I like the bubbles when they tell us something we couldn't otherwse know. Hey, works in Scrubs :)

Less of a fan when it's telling us stuff a good artist (Like, say, Cho or Bagley :) ) could tell us with the art, or does tell us.

Matthew
03-30-2008, 07:21 PM
Less of a fan when it's telling us stuff a good artist (Like, say, Cho or Bagley :) ) could tell us with the art, or does tell us.

Probably saying it better than me. Thanks, Nick.

Except for change "less of a fan" with "not a fan at all".