Can either democrat beat McCain?

[Gordon Chumway]

So our next president is going to be McCain, Clinton or Obama. As a long time democrat who thinks GWB has made my late twenties much harder, I have to say I like all three of these people. I really don't think either democrat can win though. I think McCain has this locked up.

[TIP]

:lol:

T

[Gregory]

The majority of Democrats will vote for either candidate.

A number of Republicans will never vote for McCain.

The Dems have the numbers.

[Glixy]

I'm still rooting for Bloomberg...

Is he gonna jump into this thing?

[Nick Spencer]

So our next president is going to be McCain, Clinton or Obama. As a long time democrat who thinks GWB has made my late twenties much harder, I have to say I like all three of these people. I really don't think either democrat can win though. I think McCain has this locked up.

I think Obama has a much better shot. I actually think Clinton will get routed. Bad. Its not that the margin will be that huge, but in terms of the electoral college, I think he'll dominate.

Bottom line is McCain is very, very tough to beat.

[Ray G.]

I think McCain beats Clinton easily.

Obama will be more challenging, and I think it's hard to say. He could go down harder than Mondale if he falls apart under the hardcore campaigning, or he could score a massive historic win if he manages to duplicate his Iowa success nationwide.

But regardless, I'm pretty sure it's Clinton. And with many Obama supporters likely staying home...

[Ray G.]

I'm still rooting for Bloomberg...

Is he gonna jump into this thing?

Unlikely, if McCain is the nominee.

However, and this may sound crazy, but I think he'll be the Democratic nominee for President in 2012.

[mike black]

The majority of Democrats will vote for either candidate.

A number of Republicans will never vote for McCain.

The Dems have the numbers.

An overwhelming majority of independent voters in Florida registered Republican to vote for McCain.

[Gordon Chumway]

I think Obama has a much better shot. I actually think Clinton will get routed. Bad. Its not that the margin will be that huge, but in terms of the electoral college, I think he'll dominate.

Bottom line is McCain is very, very tough to beat.

Yes, I was hoping Romney would win the nomination because he's so beatable I could barely believe he was a front runner.

I also don't think Obama can take enough states to beat Clinton, the polls have him losing just about everywhere.

[Glixy]

Do we still think that whoever get Edwards endorsement takes the Dem nomination?

[mike black]

Yes, I was hoping Romney would win to nomination because he's so beatable I could barely believe he was a front runner.

I also don't think Obama can take enough states to beat Clinton, the polls have him losing just about everywhere.

You're starting to see the Religious Right vs Traditional Conservative schism happening in the GOP.

[Glixy]

Yes, I was hoping Romney would win to nomination because he's so beatable I could barely believe he was a front runner.

I also don't think Obama can take enough states to beat Clinton, the polls have him losing just about everywhere.

http://www.yarnivore.com/francis/archives/images/Guy_Smiley.jpg

[Sehestedt]

Looking at it from today, I'm predicting President McCain, but a lot can happen in the next 9 months. If it comes down to McCain vs. Clinton, I think McCain wins pretty soundly. McCain vs. Obama would be a very tight race.

[Jason California]

I think Obama has a much better shot. I actually think Clinton will get routed. Bad. Its not that the margin will be that huge, but in terms of the electoral college, I think he'll dominate.

Bottom line is McCain is very, very tough to beat.

correct.

[lonesomefool]

The majority of Democrats will vote for either candidate.

A number of Republicans will never vote for McCain.

The Dems have the numbers.

I think that totally depends. I think it McCain is going against Obama, then you are right, BUT if McCain is going against the Hildebeast, then Republicans will come out and vote for McCain, if only to stop her from taking office. McCain may not excite the Republican base, BUT Hillary does, and they will pour money, time, and their own blood if they have to to stop her. Hillary Clinton is just a notch above Bin Laden in a lot of Republican circles.

[Gregory]

An overwhelming majority of independent voters in Florida registered Republican to vote for McCain.

That won't be enough to outnumber those who steadfastly voted for Paul, Thompson (even though he quit earlier), Rudy, Huckabee, and Giuliani instead of McCain. McCain won't win over all those folks. There have been eight years of daily Republican talk/noise devoted to mocking him.

[Arion]

The majority of Democrats will vote for either candidate.

A number of Republicans will never vote for McCain.

The Dems have the numbers.

I think you are right.

[aj110]

No way Hillary wins. She's too polarizing, even amongst democrats.

McCain is looking stronger and stronger.

[Gregory]

I think that totally depends. I think it McCain is going against Obama, then you are right, BUT if McCain is going against the Hildebeast, then Republicans will come out and vote for McCain, if only to stop her from taking office. McCain may not excite the Republican base, BUT Hillary does, and they will pour money, time, and their own blood if they have to to stop her. Hillary Clinton is just a notch above Bin Laden in a lot of Republican circles.

That didn't work for Dole, even when he and Clinton were running against Perot.

McCain has taken more shots from his own party members than from the Democrats.

[aj110]

Yeah, but I'm sure the Republicans will back off McCain when he's running against Hildawg.

[lonesomefool]

That won't be enough to outnumber those who steadfastly voted for Paul, Thompson (even though he quit earlier), Rudy, Huckabee, and Giuliani instead of McCain. McCain won't win over all those folks. There have been eight years of daily Republican talk/noise devoted to mocking him.

As much as those people hate McCain, they hate Hillary more. Obama, at least for now, is generally liked by Republicans and Independents, and he would eat into the Independent support that McCain has. Hillary isnt going to steal any independent voters away from McCain.

[Jason California]

I think 1 out every 3 Americans sincerely hate Hillary.

I just dislike her.

[Gordon Chumway]

That didn't work for Dole, even when he and Clinton were running against Perot.

McCain has taken more shots from his own party members than from the Democrats.

Senetor Craig?!

Oh, you meant verbal shots.

[Sehestedt]

I think 1 out every 3 Americans sincerely hate Hillary.


In the red states that might not be a bad estimation. In the blue states? No.

[Fake Pat]

I think they both could beat McCain, but it would be a lot harder for Clinton.

If it's Obama, I really think by election time he'd have a sizable lead.

[lonesomefool]

That didn't work for Dole, even when he and Clinton were running against Perot.

McCain has taken more shots from his own party members than from the Democrats.

Bill was also able to get decent Independent support. Hillary isnt Bill Clinton, and when Democrats such as myself would vote for McCain over her, I dont think that's a good sign. Again, do I think McCain is gonna excite the GOP? No, but he automatically looks better if running against Hillary.

[mike black]

That won't be enough to outnumber those who steadfastly voted for Paul, Thompson (even though he quit earlier), Rudy, Huckabee, and Giuliani instead of McCain. McCain won't win over all those folks. There have been eight years of daily Republican talk/noise devoted to mocking him.

The 10% of Republicans who voted for Paul are more likely to vote McCain rather than Romney, because after everything - McCain's till a centrist Republican.

The Guiliani supporters will support him because of the endorsement, they're the same candidate. In addition - McCain picks Guiliani as his VP. The Romney/Huckabee supporters can take a flying fuck.

McCain can cross the isle. Clinton can't. Obama might be able to. I think a McCain/Obama race would be great for America.

[Kirblar]

McCain's beatable. He's got a loose enough mouth where there's plenty of ammunition to use against him.

The problem is that Hillary would unite the fractured GOP base against her.

[Glixy]

Who's Defferding gonna vote for?

[Kirblar]

Who's Defferding gonna vote for?
Nader?

[Amos Moses]

I'm sorry, but baring a super fuck up by McCain, I think he'll win if he's the nom. The Democrats are just too incompetent to beat him. If it was someone else, I think the Democrats would win. But I think McCain will take it. even with high dissatisfaction with the GOP.

[Jason California]

The 10% of Republicans who voted for Paul are more likely to vote McCain rather than Romney, because after everything - McCain's till a centrist Republican.

The Guiliani supporters will support him because of the endorsement, they're the same candidate. In addition - McCain picks Guiliani as his VP. The Romney/Huckabee supporters can take a flying fuck.

McCain can cross the isle. Clinton can't. Obama might be able to. I think a McCain/Obama race would be great for America.



Guiliani has a better shot at getting the AG nod than the vp.

[Fake Pat]

McCain's beatable. He's got a loose enough mouth where there's plenty of ammunition to use against him.

The problem is that Hillary would unite the fractured GOP base against her.

He's seriously fucked if he doesn't start calming down, especially with the attacking Iran/staying in Iraq forever stuff.

[mike black]

In the red states that might not be a bad estimation. In the blue states? No.

Can I ask that during the next year we ban the use of the "Red State/Blue State" comparison?

Because it only leads to this:
http://web.knoxnews.com/silence/archives/jesusland.jpg

[lonesomefool]

McCain's beatable. He's got a loose enough mouth where there's plenty of ammunition to use against him.

The problem is that Hillary would unite the fractured GOP base against her.

His economy statements are gonna come back to bite him in the ass, hard.

[Jason California]

Nader?

That is the silliest thing I have heard all day.:lol:

[Amos Moses]

Can I ask that during the next year we ban the use of the "Red State/Blue State" comparison?

Because it only leads to this:
http://web.knoxnews.com/silence/archives/jesusland.jpg

I agree. Besides, I don't want to shack up with those filthy Canadians.

[Fake Pat]

Can I ask that during the next year we ban the use of the "Red State/Blue State" comparison?

Because it only leads to this:
http://web.knoxnews.com/silence/archives/jesusland.jpg

If we end up with another Republican presidency I'd totally be ready for that to become a reality.

[mike black]

Guiliani has a better shot at getting the AG nod than the vp.

I don't think his political ambition is done. I think he worked a deal to get the VP nod. He'd be good for the AG position, but it's been a few years. McCain seals up the large groups of independents with Guiliani's centrist socially liberal leanings.

[Xander Boune]

Isn't McCain like 114 years old? He will look like an angry corpse next to Obama in a debate.

[mike black]

I agree. Besides, I don't want to shack up with those filthy Canadians.

Ugh. I really don't want to relive the nightmare this board was 4 years ago.

The entire first page was about the election, and it was fucking nasty.

[mike black]

If we end up with another Republican presidency I'd totally be ready for that to become a reality.

See ya. (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.asp)

[Ray G.]

Ugh. I really don't want to relive the nightmare this board was 4 years ago.

The entire first page was about the election, and it was fucking nasty.

Remember when Bendis locked the board? I was just coming online then, I had only been on the board for a few weeks, I think. It was epic.

[PeterSparker]

Bill was also able to get decent Independent support. Hillary isnt Bill Clinton, and when Democrats such as myself would vote for McCain over her, I dont think that's a good sign. Again, do I think McCain is gonna excite the GOP? No, but he automatically looks better if running against Hillary.

You're right, and Gregory is wrong on this one.

The idea that Republicans who don't like McCain will stay home so that Hillary Clinton can name judges to the Supreme Court etc, is simply absurd. They won't be sitting this one out, garaunteed.

[Ray G.]

Isn't McCain like 114 years old? He will look like an angry corpse next to Obama in a debate.

He can just have his mother make another campaign appearance to remind people he has good genes. :)

And sorry to say, but it doesn't look like Obama's going to be next to McCain at a debate...

[lonesomefool]

Isn't McCain like 114 years old? He will look like an angry corpse next to Obama in a debate.

Agreed. I say this as someone who would seriously consider voting for McCain if he were against the Hildebeast, but yeah, I think Obama would be able to beat him. I dont think it would be a blow out either way, but Obama would be able to beat him.

[Fake Pat]

See ya. (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.asp)

Honestly, I'm almost ready.

[mike black]

Remember when Bendis locked the board? I was just coming online then, I had only been on the board for a few weeks, I think. It was epic.

Hell, even Bendis got into it.

I remember the thread where Oeming wasn't sure of who to vote for and Bendis was really laying into him for even considering voting for Bush.

(Laying into him, that is, without being a dick.)

He was just foaming at the mouth over the idea of Bush in the White House again.

[Ray G.]

You're right, and Gregory is wrong on this one.

The idea that Republicans who don't like McCain will stay home so that Hillary Clinton can name judges to the Supreme Court etc, is simply absurd. They won't be sitting this one out, garaunteed.

Exactly. 97% of the base will hold their noses and vote for McCain. He's made some enemies, but he's actually fairly conservative - more so than Giuliani, at least.

The percentage of African-American and young voters who stay home if Hill is the nominee will be far bigger.

[mike black]

Isn't McCain like 114 years old? He will look like an angry corpse next to Obama in a debate.

Being tortured for 3 years will do that to you.

(IT BEGINS!!!)

[Ryan F]

McCain is the new Bob Dole. He said it would be "fine" if troops stayed in Iraq for a hundred years. He sang about bombing Iran to the tune of a Beach Boys song. He has said he knows nothing about economics in a year when we may be headed towards a recession. His base is not happy with his position on immigration and doubt his conservative credentials.

Is he a tough opponent for Clinton or Obama? Probably. Could either of them beat him? Yes. Is it far, far too early to say anything definitive? Absolutely.

[William Joseph Dunn]

"Never underestimate the Democrat's ability to wrestle defeat from the jaws of victory". There'll be another white man in the White House again.

I think McCain would beat Clinton easily, but I agree with those who say that against Obama it would be a closer race. I just don't think Obama will get the nomination. I think Edward dropped out yesterday to help Obama, but I don't know if it'll be enough.

[Amos Moses]

Hell, even Bendis got into it.

I remember the thread where Oeming wasn't sure of who to vote for and Bendis was really laying into him for even considering voting for Bush.

(Laying into him, that is, without being a dick.)

He was just foaming at the mouth over the idea of Bush in the White House again.

Man I would love to see that thread.

[PeterSparker]

Hell, even Bendis got into it.

I remember the thread where Oeming wasn't sure of who to vote for and Bendis was really laying into him for even considering voting for Bush.

(Laying into him, that is, without being a dick.)

He was just foaming at the mouth over the idea of Bush in the White House again.

Bendis even posted his own plea that borders vote for Kerry.

[mike black]

Honestly, I'm almost ready.

Enjoy. (http://www.jobsincanada.com/)

Hope you save all that money you save on door locks and not buying guns.

[Jason California]

Exactly. 97% of the base will hold their noses and vote for McCain. He's made some enemies, but he's actually fairly conservative - more so than Giuliani, at least.

The percentage of African-American and young voters who stay home if Hill is the nominee will be far bigger.

Democrats NEED the black vote.IMO at least.

[Kirblar]

The percentage of African-American and young voters who stay home if Hill is the nominee will be far bigger.
Yeah, given the way she's conducted herself and her campaign in the primaries, I can definitely see a lot of Obama supporters sitting on their hands, allowing McCain to win to make a statement.

[Jason California]

Enjoy. (http://www.jobsincanada.com/)

Hope you save all that money you save on door locks and not buying guns.

What happened to all those Hollywood types that were going to leave the country? oh yeah, they ares till here.

[Drkemerld73]

Well... I think both McCain and Hillary/Bill will turn this into a VERY nasty campaign.

At least it seems that Obama has some class and is trying to be better than what both of them are doing.

McCain seems to put his foot in his mouth a fair amount and say some pretty arrogant things. Hillary has Bill for that.

It will be funny, yet very sad, if Republicans actually are disturbed by Hillary enough to actually vote for someone they don't like very much.

I'm praying for a 3rd party guy to come along if it is McCain/Hillary.

[mike black]

Bendis even posted his own plea that borders vote for Kerry.

Of course he did it just PRIOR to the election. So everyone had already made up their mind.

[mike black]

What happened to all those Hollywood types that were going to leave the country? oh yeah, they ares till here.

Johnny Depp left. I respect him for sticking to his convictions.

[aj110]

I'm praying for a 3rd party guy to come along if it is McCain/Hillary.

and do what? waste his money?

[mike black]

and do what? waste his money?

Where a shirt that says "I'm the new Ross Perot".

[Ray G.]

An interesting point, however: We are essentially down to a three-person race. Either John McCain, Hillary Clinton, or Barack Obama will be the next President.

That means that for the first time in 48 years, a sitting Senator will become President.

[Jason California]

Johnny Depp left. I respect him for sticking to his convictions.

Well Depp is a stand up kind of guy.

[Drkemerld73]

Exactly. 97% of the base will hold their noses and vote for McCain.

It is a sad commentary if that's the case.

I won't be holding my nose since he won't have my vote.

:D

[Brother Power the Gong]

I honestly don't think Obama supporters will sit on their hands if Hillary gets the nod. Sure some will, but most're going to look out and see a hawkish, anti-choice conservative who will get at least two Supreme Court picks, and some'll think back to that Nader 2000 vote, and hold their noses and pull the lever for Hill.

[Glixy]

Well Depp is a stand up kind of guy.

? Do you know him?

[Drkemerld73]

and do what? waste his money?

Give people a choice from two rather poor candidates.

[PeterSparker]

? Do you know him?I'm more interested in knowing how moving to France solves anything you're dissatisfied about in America?

[Jason California]

? Do you know him?

No I don't. On the other hand I have never read anything about him that I did not like. I can't say that for many people in his position.

[Glixy]

No I don't. On the other hand I have never read anything about him that I did not like. I can't say that for many people in his position.

Yeah, thats what peeps probably would have said about Michael Richards....

Sorry, its just a pet peeve of mine...

[Jason California]

Yeah, thats what peeps probably would have said about Michael Richards....

Sorry, its just a pet peeve of mine...

it is ok.

[CPA]

So our next president is going to be McCain, Clinton or Obama. As a long time democrat who thinks GWB has made my late twenties much harder, I have to say I like all three of these people. I really don't think either democrat can win though. I think McCain has this locked up.

I will tell you that as a Republican that I think if he wins my nomination that the Dems have it locked up. There are probably so many stories that will make people sour on hiim being withheld that once he wins they will be streaming out.

[Ray G.]

Yeah, thats what peeps probably would have said about Michael Richards....

Sorry, its just a pet peeve of mine...

Did you read about him giving millions to the hospital that saved his daughter and showing up dressed in a Jack Sparrow costume to read stories to the sick kids there?

Depp = awesome.

[lonesomefool]

I will tell you that as a Republican that I think if he wins my nomination that the Dems have it locked up. There are probably so many stories that will make people sour on hiim being withheld that once he wins they will be streaming out.

Hillary also has TONS of baggage. A McCain/Hillary race would be horrifically ugly.

[Dreg]

Obama would slaughter him in a debate. How much debates affect candidates in the eyes of the voter is a big question mark, however. Given our current inarticulate mess of a president, they must not count for much.

[Ray G.]

Hillary also has TONS of baggage. A McCain/Hillary race would be horrifically ugly.

And quite honestly, Obama's baggage hasn't been dug up yet. Expect the comments of the head of his church to get a TON of play, if just to associate Obama with a known left-wing extremist.

[Sy-Klone]

To answer the thread title...

I think Obama could. I don't think Hillary can.

[Glixy]

Did you read about him giving millions to the hospital that saved his daughter and showing up dressed in a Jack Sparrow costume to read stories to the sick kids there?

Depp = awesome.

I did not read that. And that does make him sound amazing. But still, unless you know someone...

[Skatonic10]

Both Democrats can beat McCain. Just like Kerry should have beaten Bush. They just can't fuck it up too bad, early on.

[Glixy]

Both Democrats can beat McCain. Just like Kerry should have beaten Bush. They just can't fuck it up too bad, early on.

Lambert Field?

[CPA]

Given our current inarticulate mess of a president, they must not count for much.

He may be inarticulate, but at least he put forth propositions.

I read somewhere that the 2004 election had the smallest victory margin by an incumbent in the history of the presidential race. That tells me that most people were not sold on Bush. The problem was Kerry's whole campaign was essentially "I am not that guy". Bad ideas will win out over no ideas.

[Amos Moses]

And quite honestly, Obama's baggage hasn't been dug up yet. Expect the comments of the head of his church to get a TON of play, if just to associate Obama with a known left-wing extremist.

It's already been dug up. Nobody really cared. They might dig it up again if he gets the nom, but I don't think McCain would do something like that. Maybe some shitty 527 might though...

[mike black]

I'm more interested in knowing how moving to France solves anything you're dissatisfied about in America?

Ask Johnny Depp.

[Amos Moses]

He may be inarticulate, but at least he put forth propositions.

I read somewhere that the 2004 election had the smallest victory margin by an incumbent in the history of the presidential race. That tells me that most people were not sold on Bush. The problem was Kerry's whole campaign was essentially "I am not that guy". Bad ideas will win out over no ideas.

Exactly. Bush did not get a huge mandate or anything, he won by the closest margin ever, plus he was a wartime President. I basically think that Bush did not win the 2004 election, Kerry lost it. He had all the tools he needed to win, he just didn't use them.

[Brother Power the Gong]

He may be inarticulate, but at least he put forth propositions.

I read somewhere that the 2004 election had the smallest victory margin by an incumbent in the history of the presidential race. That tells me that most people were not sold on Bush. The problem was Kerry's whole campaign was essentially "I am not that guy". Bad ideas will win out over no ideas.

True. Kerry also took his swiftboating like a guilty child. He should've told those guys to meet him in the parking lot for an asskicking. Rovian politics at its best: Turn an opponent's strength into a liability.

Also, Gore thrashed Bush on issues during the 2000 debates, but came off condescending and people listened to Bush's mangled bumper sticker slogans (which were very middle-of-the-road compared to what the country got) and thought that he was someone they could relate to. Likability and all that.

[PeterSparker]

Ask Johnny Depp.


Next time we run into each other I will. :D

[Brian Defferding]

Who's Defferding gonna vote for?

I'm writing in Ron Paul. If no write-in was allowed (hypothetically speaking) I would vote Libertarian.

And while I'll be walking away from the voting booth with a clean conscience, I'll continue that walk of clear conscience straight to the bar and drink hard, stare at my glass and despair.

:surrend:

[Mister Mets]

I'm biased in favor of McCain, but I believe that is is possible for either democrat to beat McCain. However, I think the odds of Obama winning against him are about even, which makes McCain different from any other Republican. I think he has an edge over Hillary, but she'd still have a roughly 40 percent chance (I'm pulling numbers out of my ass here) of winning.

[Marcdachamp]

Both candidates can kick the shit out of McCain... they just have to play the game. I love Kerry, but the guy is not a presidential candidate. When Rove played his little swiftboat veteran garbage, Kerry should have come at him full force. All Kerry did was reinforce the bullshit "weak liberal" stereotype. If Obama or Clinton respond to any and all attacks, they can take McCain down.

[Drkemerld73]

I'm writing in Ron Paul. If no write-in was allowed (hypothetically speaking) I would vote Libertarian.

And while I'll be walking away from the voting booth with a clean conscience, I'll continue that walk of clear conscience straight to the bar and drink hard, stare at my glass and despair.

:surrend:

I'm thinking that's what I might do.

Since I don't drink I might just go to the movies instead.

All I know is I want to walk away with a clean consious like you said.

[Akira]

I'm writing in Ron Paul. If no write-in was allowed (hypothetically speaking) I would vote Libertarian.

And while I'll be walking away from the voting booth with a clean conscience, I'll continue that walk of clear conscience straight to the bar and drink hard, stare at my glass and despair.

:surrend:

Don't blame Brian. He voted for Kodos!



;)

[Ryan F]

And quite honestly, Obama's baggage hasn't been dug up yet. Expect the comments of the head of his church to get a TON of play, if just to associate Obama with a known left-wing extremist.

:roll:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/church.asp

I don't really think Obama should be obligated to respond to an article in his church newspaper, but he did today anyway:

Obama: "I decry racism and anti-Semitism in every form and strongly condemn the anti-Semitic statements made by Minister Farrakhan. I assume that Trumpet Magazine made its own decision to honor Farrakhan based on his efforts to rehabilitate ex-offenders, but it is not a decisions with which I agree."

[Mister Mets]

Isn't McCain like 114 years old? He will look like an angry corpse next to Obama in a debate.Or Obama will look like a young black man screaming at a kindly gradnfather.


Unlikely, if McCain is the nominee.

However, and this may sound crazy, but I think he'll be the Democratic nominee for President in 2012.That's a suspicion I haven't heard before.

[Sy-Klone]

Clinton is such a divisive figure. She really is. Hatred for Hillary runs deep in this country.

I mean, I'm pretty liberal, and I don't like her. I don't hate her, but I don't like her and I won't vote for her. So if that's how I feel, imagine how people who are more conservative or Republican feel about her.

[Foolish Mortal]

Hillary Clinton was the DNC's "chosen one" from the start. They may not like the way Clinton got to the point she is at now, nevertheless, she's still appears to be the "top dog" in the race overall, as they wanted her to be. In the end, the Democrats will do everything they can to get the White House back. They'll support Hillary Clinton no matter what.

I'm not seeing that same level of fire from the Republicans. They're sitting on the fence about McCain. He's not the guy the GOP really wanted. He's like a bitter pill to swallow for the Far Right pundits. Their attitude seems to be; "Yeah, we'll support McCain, but only because we don't have any other choice".

In any event, this election will not be a landslide for either side. I believe it will be as close as the 2000 election, if not closer.

[Brian Defferding]

Don't blame Brian. He voted for Kodos!



;)

Heh! ;)

[Kirblar]

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=JtdwcbqeE5s

GMA found footage of Hillary at Wal-Mart board meetings.

Talk about an open target.

[Brian Defferding]

I'm thinking that's what I might do.

Since I don't drink I might just go to the movies instead.

All I know is I want to walk away with a clean consious like you said.

Good, you should! :cool: :D

[Ray G.]

That's a suspicion I haven't heard before.

I think that when he leaves office in 2010, he'll switch parties and challenge the disastrous Eliot Spitzer in the Democratic primary for Governor. Governor makes sense as his next stop if he doesn't run for President, and he'd have a better chance as a Democrat. He's more likely to win the primary than to get the incredibly solidly blue NY to vote for a GOP governor while the state party is in complete shambles.

At which point, he is in a perfect position to run for President, especially if McCain doesn't seek a second term.

[Sy-Klone]

I've already been telling people that if Hillary gets the Democratic nomination, I'm gonna write in "Superman" and hope for the best.

[RebootedCorpse]

They been shooting McCain full of tranqs. It's only a matter of time before he goes off his nut on something or other.

[Khrutch]

I feel I must say again, people really do not comprehend how much Hillary in not liked by the GOP. The Republicans will most certainly rally against her and dare I say the Moderates and Independents will rally against her and support McCain if for no other reason than to not have Hillary as President.

Have no doubt about that.

[PeterSparker]

I've already been telling people that if Hillary gets the Democratic nomination, I'm gonna write in "Superman" and hope for the best.

So you're voting for an illegal alien, huh?

Way to hate America.

[Thudpucker]

Hilary will be our next President. The sooner you all face this fact, the sooner you can learn to live with it.

All hail Queen Hilary! :D

[Mister Mets]

I think that when he leaves office in 2010, he'll switch parties and challenge the disastrous Eliot Spitzer in the Democratic primary for Governor. Governor makes sense as his next stop if he doesn't run for President, and he'd have a better chance as a Democrat. He's more likely to win the primary than to get the incredibly solidly blue NY to vote for a GOP governor while the state party is in complete shambles.

At which point, he is in a perfect position to run for President, especially if McCain doesn't seek a second term.But in that case, he'd have to start his presidential campaign around the time he starts his gubernatorial duties. Even if he pulls a Thompson and waits until after Labor Day to announce that he's running, it only gives him eight months to govern a fairly large state.

[RebootedCorpse]

I feel I must say again, people really do not comprehend how much Hillary in not liked by the GOP. The Republicans will most certainly rally against her and dare I say the Moderates and Independents will rally against her and support McCain if for no other reason than to not have Hillary as President.

Have no doubt about that.

But they'll embrace the black guy.
:mistrust:

[Amos Moses]

Hilary will be our next President. The sooner you all face this fact, the sooner you can learn to live with it.

All hail Queen Hilary! :D

I knew it! A Monarchy plot!

[Sy-Klone]

So you're voting for an illegal alien, huh?

Way to hate America.

Illegal Alien President > Woman President

(I'm kidding)

[Ray G.]

But in that case, he'd have to start his presidential campaign around the time he starts his gubernatorial duties. Even if he pulls a Thompson and waits until after Labor Day to announce that he's running, it only gives him eight months to govern a fairly large state.

That is a problem. With the new election cycle, it's essentially a two-year campaign, which is annoying. I still don't think it's impossible, though. Especially if he end his mayoral run as well as he began it.

[Mister Mets]

I think most of us can agree that the odds that John McCain will be the next president are significantly greater than the odds given in July of 2007 that he'd get the Republican nomination.

[Skatonic10]

Both candidates can kick the shit out of McCain... they just have to play the game. I love Kerry, but the guy is not a presidential candidate. When Rove played his little swiftboat veteran garbage, Kerry should have come at him full force. All Kerry did was reinforce the bullshit "weak liberal" stereotype. If Obama or Clinton respond to any and all attacks, they can take McCain down.

Obama has been fighting back against Bill Clinton, which is good for him in the primaries, but what is going to happen if he gets the nomination? Is Bill going to say "You know what, I was wrong. Barack's a good guy. Vote for him?" Or is he just going to stay silent?

The fact that McCain and Romney are both like "pick me, I'm Ronald Regan revisited" is a bad thing. While most people thing he was a good figurehead of the state, he was in not so great at running a country.

[PeterSparker]

I think most of us can agree that the odds that John McCain will be the next president are significantly greater than the odds given in July of 2007 that he'd get the Republican nomination.

Yup, and we can also conclude that polls are pretty much useless in many cases.*












*except the one where 50% of Americans said they would never vote for Hillary. :)

[Thudpucker]

I think most of us can agree that the odds that John McCain will be the next president are significantly greater than the odds given in July of 2007 that he'd get the Republican nomination.

Yea, I never thought the Republicans would be smart enough to select him. I was sure they'd pick a nutjob like Rudy or Huckabee.

[Sy-Klone]

I also think we desperately need new blood in the White House, regardless of whether it's McCain or Obama.

The last 20 years in Presidents: Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush II, Bush II. If Hillary wins, it'll signal that we're unwilling to try something new. And right now? We desperately need something new.

[Marcdachamp]

Obama has been fighting back against Bill Clinton, which is good for him in the primaries, but what is going to happen if he gets the nomination? Is Bill going to say "You know what, I was wrong. Barack's a good guy. Vote for him?" Or is he just going to stay silent?

The fact that McCain and Romney are both like "pick me, I'm Ronald Regan revisited" is a bad thing. While most people thing he was a good figurehead of the state, he was in not so great at running a country.

What the Clinton's need to do is meet with Obama. Unified, I think Clinton and Obama can easily trounce McCain. I know they don't seem to like one another, but if Cheney can deal with Bush's constant gay-bashing, than these 2 can form an amicable partnership for the greater good.

[lonesomefool]

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=JtdwcbqeE5s

GMA found footage of Hillary at Wal-Mart board meetings.

Talk about an open target.

:lol:

[Nick Spencer]

I think people trying to make a McCain-Dole comparison are gonna be frustrated when it doesn't stick. John McCain is a very impressive campaigner, Dole wasn't. McCain is an inspiring figure in independent circles in a way Dole never was. They're actually both funny, likable guys, but McCain is actually able to convey that on the stump in a way Dole never could. I get that they're both older guys, but one comes off much sharper than the other.

Sorry, but Hillary ain't Bill, McCain ain't Dole, and this sure as hell ain't 1996.

[Ryan F]

I think Primary turnout is also worth noting. The Dems are outdrawing the Republicans even though there hasn't been a blue state primary yet.

[lonesomefool]

What the Clinton's need to do is meet with Obama. Unified, I think Clinton and Obama can easily trounce McCain. I know they don't seem to like one another, but if Cheney can deal with Bush's constant gay-bashing, than these 2 can form an amicable partnership for the greater good.

I think that would hurt Obama more though. Obama is viewed as the "change" canidate, and he would come off as a guy who "sold out" if he would become VP. That would hurt his chances of running for President down the line.

[Nick Spencer]

I think Primary turnout is also worth noting. The Dems are outdrawing the Republicans even though there hasn't been a blue state primary yet.

Wait until Hillary takes the stage at the Democratic Convention. Those Republican intensity numbers will fix themselves just fine.

[Amos Moses]

I think people trying to make a McCain-Dole comparison are gonna be frustrated when it doesn't stick. John McCain is a very impressive campaigner, Dole wasn't. McCain is an inspiring figure in independent circles in a way Dole never was. They're actually both funny, likable guys, but McCain is actually able to convey that on the stump in a way Dole never could. I get that they're both older guys, but one comes off much sharper than the other.

Sorry, but Hillary ain't Bill, McCain ain't Dole, and this sure as hell ain't 1996.
Bob Dole doesn't care for your analogy.

[RebootedCorpse]

Bob Dole doesn't care for your analogy.

Bob Dole won his war!

[Amos Moses]

Bob Dole won his war!

Bob Dole really did father a black baby.

[Ryan F]

I think people trying to make a McCain-Dole comparison are gonna be frustrated when it doesn't stick. John McCain is a very impressive campaigner, Dole wasn't. McCain is an inspiring figure in independent circles in a way Dole never was. They're actually both funny, likable guys, but McCain is actually able to convey that on the stump in a way Dole never could. I get that they're both older guys, but one comes off much sharper than the other.

Sorry, but Hillary ain't Bill, McCain ain't Dole, and this sure as hell ain't 1996.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWDbCHHQPLY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU3BwS9Biys

Electrifying! :lol:

McCain's always been better at inspiring reporters on his bus than at inspiring the electorate.

[Brian Defferding]

Bob Dole really did father a black baby.

Bob Dole stole my viagara!

[Jason California]

I think that would hurt Obama more though. Obama is viewed as the "change" canidate, and he would come off as a guy who "sold out" if he would become VP. That would hurt his chances of running for President down the line.

McCain did it with Bush and look where he is.

[Thommy Melanson]

Not a chance this country is going to elect another Republican after the colossal failure, embarrassment and shameful (possibly criminal) atrocity that is the Bush admin.

They had their chance. A lot of rich people got even richer, and a lot of our troops died for nothing.

Obama, Clinton, whomever - A Democrat wins the presidency this year.

[lonesomefool]

McCain did it with Bush and look where he is.

I just think it would be a horrible idea for Obama. Obama is so well liked because he is viewed as the "change" politician. The guy who would shake things up, weed out the evil, etc.

The Clintons are the ULTIMATE professional politicians. For Obama it would be political suicide in a lot of ways, quite frankly. I know as a Obama supporter, I would lose a lot of respect for the man if he teamed up with Hillary.

[Amos Moses]

Bob Dole stole my viagara!

Bob Dole earned it.

[lonesomefool]

Not a chance this country is going to elect another Republican after the colossal failure, embarrassment and shameful (possibly criminal) atrocity that is the Bush admin.

They had their chance. A lot of rich people got even richer, and a lot of our troops died for nothing.

Obama, Clinton, whomever - A Democrat wins the presidency this year.

By that logic, Bush never would have won in 2004.

[Jason California]

Not a chance this country is going to elect another Republican after the colossal failure, embarrassment and shameful (possibly criminal) atrocity that is the Bush admin.

They had their chance. A lot of rich people got even richer, and a lot of our troops died for nothing.

Obama, Clinton, whomever - A Democrat wins the presidency this year.

I am going to make this my sig in November. :)

[Ryan F]

Wait until Hillary takes the stage at the Democratic Convention. Those Republican intensity numbers will fix themselves just fine.

Well, there are a lot fewer Republicans than there were 4 years ago, so that may not be enough. I think a recession, or an outbreak of violence in Iraq this summer (still very much a possibility) would make this thing almost unwinnable for any Republican.

I also think it's worth noting that the over-30 set has a very different view of Hillary than the under-30 set. The BenBo is not representative of America (which is why Obama isn't running away with this thing and Paul isn't right there with McCain for the Republican nomination).

McCain is having the best month of his political career and Hillary is having the worst of hers, and they're still dead even in the early polls. McCain could very well win, but to say that Hillary can't is just ignorant.

[Brother Power the Gong]

By that logic, Bush never would have won in 2004.

I think a lot of people weren't ready to make that analysis. I think by the end of 2005, it was a different story.

[Thommy Melanson]

By that logic, Bush never would have won in 2004.

That was before Katrina, and before things really fell apart in Iraq and Afghanistan.



I am going to make this my sig in November. :)

I'm going to make that and this reply my sig in November :)

[lonesomefool]

I think a lot of people weren't ready to make that analysis. I think by the end of 2005, it was a different story.

True, all I am saying is never count on the majority of Americans to act on logic.

[Ryan F]

By that logic, Bush never would have won in 2004.

Bush's approval was in the high 40s in '04. It's in the low 30s now. A lot of people have changed their minds.

[mike black]

That was before Katrina, and before things really fell apart in Iraq and Afghanistan.

.......:mistrust:

[Brother Power the Gong]

At the end of the day, it's just as important for the Dems to get a veto-proof majority in Congress.

[Brother Power the Gong]

That was before Katrina, and before things really fell apart in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Thing was, Iraq had gone to pot with Mission Accomplished and Afghanistan … what is that again?

[Jason California]

That was before Katrina, and before things really fell apart in Iraq and Afghanistan.




I'm going to make that and this reply my sig in November :)

Awesome!

[Thommy Melanson]

.......:mistrust:

Katrina happened in 2005.

2007 was the deadliest year in Iraq so far.

[Dreaded Anomaly]

I think people are underestimating the weight that the Kennedy endorsements will carry among undecided Democrats going into Super Tuesday. If Edwards comes out for Obama before then, even better. Obama definitely has potential against McCain, but he'll have to resort to more mud-slinging to capture it. Hillary obviously has no problem with that, but there's a lot more mud to be slung her way as well.


An interesting point, however: We are essentially down to a three-person race. Either John McCain, Hillary Clinton, or Barack Obama will be the next President.

That means that for the first time in 48 years, a sitting Senator will become President.

A very interesting point.


Unlikely, if McCain is the nominee.

However, and this may sound crazy, but I think he'll be the Democratic nominee for President in 2016.

Fixed. :)

This also takes care of the problem caused if he's Governor first.

[lonesomefool]

Bush's approval was in the high 40s in '04. It's in the low 30s now. A lot of people have changed their minds.

Oh, I agree, but a lot of the shit we know about Bush now, we knew in 04 and he still won. We already knew that we went into Iraq based on lies, we already knew that the Bush admin. just made the rich, richer and the poor poorer. Now, granted we have almost a year left and a lot can change, but I think counting out the Republican party is a mistake. Are they weak right now? Sure, at least compared to 04, but to think that they have no shot is a mistake.

As much as I hate Hillary Clinton, even I have to admit she has a great shot of winning still, I just know I wont be voting for her. Hell, I'm not overly excited by McCain either. Chances are I will either write-in someone, or maybe buy a couple cases of Labatt Blue and play Oh Canada really loud ;)

[Thommy Melanson]

Thing was, Iraq had gone to pot with Mission Accomplished and Afghanistan … what is that again?

As bad as Iraq was in 2004, each year following got bloodier and bloodier for American troops and Iraq citizens.

Afghanistan is a mess, and falling back into Al-Qaeda hands. NATO forces can't defeat them.

[Brother Power the Gong]

As bad as Iraq was in 2004, each year following got bloodier and bloodier for American troops and Iraq citizens.

Afghanistan is a mess, and falling back into Al-Qaeda hands. NATO forces can't defeat them.

Oh, well aware … the actual war on terror (Afghanistan/western Pakistan and trying to not engender more unnecessary hatred of the US) is a dismal failure.

[Ray G.]

At the end of the day, it's just as important for the Dems to get a veto-proof majority in Congress.

66 Senators? Impossible on every level.

A fillibuster-proof majority of 60? Possible but unlikely.

[Mister Mets]

I don't really see Obama's age as an advantage in this race.

Voters who are on the fence will know that McCain will never have another shot again (and it borders on miraculous that he has a shot now). Meanwhile there's the perception that Obama would be an even better candidate with a few more years of experience, which isn't going to help him in the General Election, as it gives voters who like him an excuse not to vote for him.

[allanpat]

McCain from 10 years ago could have pulled it off - but the senile Bush-lackey "Let's stay in Iraq for 100 more years!" McCain has virtually no chance against either Obama or Clinton

[Thommy Melanson]

I don't really see Obama's age as an advantage in this race.

Voters who are on the fence will know that McCain will never have another shot again (and it borders on miraculous that he has a shot now). Meanwhile there's the perception that Obama would be an even better candidate with a few more years of experience, which isn't going to help him in the General Election, as it gives voters who like him an excuse not to vote for him.

I don't think the candidates' ages will factor in much at all.

Reagan was a corpse when he won, and cobwebby Bob Dole was the Repub candidate for '96.

Bill Clinton was the third youngest president ever elected at 46, the same age Obama is now.

[changingshades]

I'd vote for McCain or Obama.

Never Romney or Clinton.

[Nick Spencer]

66 Senators? Impossible on every level.

A fillibuster-proof majority of 60? Possible but unlikely.

They'll likely get close enough (to fillibuster-proof) that just a few moderate Republicans will cover them the rest of the way. Gonna be a big year for Dems congressionally-- Dean has done an exceptional job on that level, so have the CCs. McCain won't have much in the way of coattails, since voters will probably want a dem majority to temper him, and its not like he represent the average conservative, anyhow.

Again, a McCain presidency for 4 years won't be a bad thing so long as none of the liberal Supreme Court justices get sick. But given their ages, that's an awfully big risk to take.

[Nick Spencer]

I'd vote for McCain or Obama.

Never Romney or Clinton.

I'm intrigued by how common this refrain is. McCain people like Obama, Obama people like McCain.

Clinton and Romney people are much more similar, too. I'm fascinated by the way psychology trumps party and ideology sometimes.

[changingshades]

I'm intrigued by how common this refrain is. McCain people like Obama, Obama people like McCain.

Clinton and Romney people are much more similar, too. I'm fascinated by the way psychology trumps party and ideology sometimes.

I have a degree in PoliSci and it's my inability to blindly follow any party that has ensured I'll never use my degree for anything other than a wall decoration

[Dreaded Anomaly]

They'll likely get close enough (to fillibuster-proof) that just a few moderate Republicans will cover them the rest of the way. Gonna be a big year for Dems congressionally-- Dean has done an exceptional job on that level, so have the CCs. McCain won't have much in the way of coattails, since voters will probably want a dem majority to temper him, and its not like he represent the average conservative, anyhow.

Locally (in Maine), Tom Allen will probably take Collins' seat, so that will help a bit.


I have a degree in PoliSci and it's my inability to blindly follow any party that has ensured I'll never use my degree for anything other than a wall decoration

Rest assured that George Washington would be proud of you.

[Nick Spencer]

I have a degree in PoliSci and it's my inability to blindly follow any party that has ensured I'll never use my degree for anything other than a wall decoration

Same here. I worked for Republicans for several years, lost the heart for it, now it's a totally useless degree. And the work experience even won't get you much in the private sector. Depressing.

[changingshades]

Locally (in Maine), Tom Allen will probably take Collins' seat, so that will help a bit.



Rest assured that George Washington would be proud of you.
If only my parents were George Washington instead of that bastard Aaron Burr

[changingshades]

Same here. I worked for Republicans for several years, lost the heart for it, now it's a totally useless degree. And the experience even won't get you much in the private sector. Depressing.

I was a democrat in Indiana. I might as well have been a commie for all the good it did me.

wanna go get a bipartisan keg?

[Thommy Melanson]

If only my parents were George Washington instead of that bastard Aaron Burr

Burr made have been a hothead, but at least he didn't look like Barbara Bush.

Team Burr - 1

Team Washington - 0

[Nick Spencer]

I was a democrat in Indiana. I might as well have been a commie for all the good it did me.

wanna go get a bipartisan keg?

All through college, they told me it was the position that mattered, not the party. So after my first job with a Republican, I put in my resume with a Democrat, naive little fuck that I was. I pretty much got laughed out of the room.

They were like "How do we know you're not a plant?" and I'm just sitting there thinking "You fucking idiot. If I was a plant, I wouldn't TELL YOU I worked for a Republican."

That guy lost his campaign, anyway, so joke's on them, I guess.

[Ryan F]

66 Senators? Impossible on every level.

A fillibuster-proof majority of 60? Possible but unlikely.

It's not impossible on the theoretical level. There are 18 Republican seats up for grabs (not counting the 5 apparently impregnable ones), which would give the Dems and their independent allies 69 seats.

Impossible on every other level though. :) The Dems are probably looking at 4-8 pick-ups in the Senate unless they have a worse-than-expected year (certainly possible if the Presidency is a blowout as many seem to be recklessly predicting in this thread).

[Ryan F]

Right now, I'm watching a debate between two erudite and well-spoken politicians who are actually willing to take on the serious problems we are currently facing, and who have fair and effective ideas for solutions. I'm not too worried.

[xyzzy]

I don't really see Obama's age as an advantage in this race.

Voters who are on the fence will know that McCain will never have another shot again (and it borders on miraculous that he has a shot now). Meanwhile there's the perception that Obama would be an even better candidate with a few more years of experience, which isn't going to help him in the General Election, as it gives voters who like him an excuse not to vote for him.

What is this, an Academy Award? You think that people will vote for McCain because this is his last hurrah?

All the dems have to do to win is connect McCain with Bush in the mind of the electorate. Shouldn't be too tough with all of his sucking up.

[Fake Pat]

What is this, an Academy Award? You think that people will vote for McCain because this is his last hurrah?

All the dems have to do to win is connect McCain with Bush in the mind of the electorate. Shouldn't be too tough with all of his sucking up.

Just keep hammering on the fact that McCain wants to stay in Iraq while going after Iran.

People are not gonna like that.

[Ryan F]

Obama 5 seconds ago on McCain tax cut flip-flopping: "Somewhere along the line, the Straight-talk express lost its wheels."

Also, John McCain as George C. Scott from Dr. Strangelove:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nqtL-P8kzo

[Fake Pat]

Obama 5 seconds ago on McCain tax cut flip-flopping: "Somewhere along the line, the Straight-talk express lost its wheels."


Answer: Wherever he was when Bush won in 2000.

[Mister Mets]

It's not impossible on the theoretical level. There are 18 Republican seats up for grabs (not counting the 5 apparently impregnable ones), which would give the Dems and their independent allies 69 seats.

Impossible on every other level though. :) The Dems are probably looking at 4-8 pick-ups in the Senate unless they have a worse-than-expected year (certainly possible if the Presidency is a blowout as many seem to be recklessly predicting in this thread).Many Democratic freshman congressmen prefer Obama because they're worried that Hillary Clinton on the presidential ticket may hurt their party's chances. Meanwhile John McCain on the Presidential ticket will likely help fellow Republicans that year.

[Mister Mets]

What is this, an Academy Award? You think that people will vote for McCain because this is his last hurrah?

All the dems have to do to win is connect McCain with Bush in the mind of the electorate. Shouldn't be too tough with all of his sucking up.
I think a last hurrah for an appealing candidate is preferable to giving another candidate a job he may not be ready for.

There are quite a few Democrats who think that Barack Obama will be an awesome presidential contender, but not in 2008. Once Independents and on the fence Republicans start thinking that way....

[gibbEy]

http://dubyad40.com/images/blogimages/brewster.jpg

[LittleBastard]

The real question is: Can McCain beat Clinton or Obama?

It will be very difficult for any Republican to get voted in any race this time around. Especially when they want to continue the war in Iraq.