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Thudpucker
01-21-2008, 05:58 AM
Do you consider yourself uneducated?

I was watching election results this morning and they kept refering to voters who have graduated from college as 'educated' and those who havn't as the 'uneducated'.

Not under educated. Uneducated. Really?

King of Mars
01-21-2008, 06:00 AM
I actually went to college and I still don't feel all that educated. Shit, I took General Psych. How much did that really teach me?

dasNdanger
01-21-2008, 06:57 AM
Of course. I read, I study things I'm interested in - and a few things I'm not - I have a wide range of interests, all of which I pursue as time permits. I know more than some of my college 'educated' friends...sometimes a LOT more. It absolutely amazes me how some stupid people get the jobs they do, JUST because they have a degree, while some of the most brilliant people on this earth never finished high school, let alone college (brilliant, I am NOT...lol. Not referring to myself there... :p ).

That said - I think those who are true professionals - whether in the sciences, or in other fields - could only have gotten where they are with a higher education. There is a certain discipline of focus needed to excel in a field, and without the structure of college, many could not have achieved what they have in their particular fields.

But for me, personally, I feel educated. But I am a person who likes to learn - many people are not (whether college-educated, or not). So, I will dig and research a subject I'm interested in - I will ask questions, I will take classes (non-credit, or credit) if I am so inclined. I think the one thing college-educated people have over me is in the area of philosophy. Most people I know who have been to college have very abstract ways of looking at life, and - perhaps - in that they feel more educated.

Just my two, 'uneducated' cents. ;-)

das

Alexander Hamilton
01-21-2008, 06:59 AM
I went to college... a few times. Never graduated though. Just because I'm not a person made for school, doesn't necessarily mean I'm uneducated. This is pretty infuriating and insulting.

Shwicaz
01-21-2008, 07:03 AM
Do you consider yourself uneducated?

I was watching election results this morning and they kept refering to voters who have graduated from college as 'educated' and those who havn't as the 'uneducated'.

Not under educated. Uneducated. Really?


I dropped out of hight school at 16. Got my GED months later.

I consider myself educated, because school gives you the 'building blocks' of education, and it is up to each person to decide how to put those together, and where they will take you.

AutumnHeart
01-21-2008, 07:10 AM
I never went to college, and for many years I had to struggle to compete with complete idiots -- I mean Grade A morons -- who'd gone to college, and were always considered first for positions and promotions.

I actually ended up training many of them on software programs and business practices they couldn't get a handle on, then had to turn around and endure the indignity of being labeled "uneducated" because I didn't have a piece of paper.

My argument has always been that while these idiots were out there getting drunk on weekends, I was working my ass off getting hands-on experience, teaching myself the skills I needed, and earning my "education." If a potential employer considered me uneducated, then they were the very last people I wanted to work for.

Thudpucker
01-21-2008, 07:25 AM
Alot of people without formal higher education consider themselves self-educated and on par with anyone who went on to higher learning. I know I do. That might not mean much though.

I've always known that people who have degree's feel above those who didn't achieve them but I was suprised this morning.

dasNdanger
01-21-2008, 07:29 AM
I never went to college, and for many years I had to struggle to compete with complete idiots -- I mean Grade A morons -- who'd gone to college, and were always considered first for positions and promotions.

I actually ended up training many of them on software programs and business practices they couldn't get a handle on, then had to turn around and endure the indignity of being labeled "uneducated" because I didn't have a piece of paper.

My argument has always been that while these idiots were out there getting drunk on weekends, I was working my ass off getting hands-on experience, teaching myself the skills I needed, and earning my "education." If a potential employer considered me uneducated, then they were the very last people I wanted to work for.

*applauds*

That's exactly the stuff I'm talking about.

One thing that also bothers me about college educated people is that they are often NOT open to other opinions besides their own - I find this particularly troubling among doctors. They just will not listen to a patient because of the whole 'I've got the diploma' thing, which has sent me jumping from doctor to doctor on many an occasion. It's also pretty much made me give up on the pill-pushing medical profession altogether, which is kinda sad. I am VERY cynical about it all.


das

Alexander Hamilton
01-21-2008, 07:31 AM
*applauds*

That's exactly the stuff I'm talking about.

One thing that also bothers me about college educated people is that they are often NOT open to other opinions besides their own - I find this particularly troubling with doctors. They just will not listen to a patient because of the whole 'I've got the diploma' thing, which has sent me jumping from doctor to doctor on many an occasion. It's also pretty much made me give up on the pill-pushing medical field altogether.


das

My uncle is a doctor, and he's a complete ass.

Therefore, all doctors are asses. ;)

Like my logic there?

DrMachine
01-21-2008, 07:31 AM
You're seeking to give an opinion on the metric that they used to distinguish educated people from un-educated people.

It comes down to your own personal interpretation on a category that is used to denote whether a person attended college or not. They are not saying that someone who went to college is smart as opposed those who did not attend college being stupid.

Shwicaz
01-21-2008, 07:32 AM
I never went to college, and for many years I had to struggle to compete with complete idiots -- I mean Grade A morons -- who'd gone to college, and were always considered first for positions and promotions.

I actually ended up training many of them on software programs and business practices they couldn't get a handle on, then had to turn around and endure the indignity of being labeled "uneducated" because I didn't have a piece of paper.

My argument has always been that while these idiots were out there getting drunk on weekends, I was working my ass off getting hands-on experience, teaching myself the skills I needed, and earning my "education." If a potential employer considered me uneducated, then they were the very last people I wanted to work for.


I hate to say this, but in some cases you are right. I lived w/ 4 college girls. The amount of time they cut class, threw mad parties and went to work/school drunk/stoned or both always amazed me. They seemed to not give a shit because their parents were paying for their education and their housing.

I work at a job now, and 90% of the mistakes/errors/fuck ups come from the 3 college students who work nights/weekends.

It is ironic, because one guy fucks up so bad all the time at the hotel, is in college with hospitality and finance as his majors.

and yet he always fucks up the cash drawers, mischarges guests Credit cards, and puts people in the wrong rooms, etc.

and yet, he is going to college for this shit.

Meanwhile, I am a drop out, and I am the person they count on all the time.

go figure.


*and no, I am not painting all college students as assholes. Just pointing out a few experiences I have had.

AutumnHeart
01-21-2008, 07:49 AM
You're seeking to give an opinion on the metric that they used to distinguish educated people from un-educated people.

It comes down to your own personal interpretation on a category that is used to denote whether a person attended college or not. They are not saying that someone who went to college is smart as opposed those who did not attend college being stupid.

I think the tone of the survey suggested it. Either I think high school was the extent of my education, or I'm someone who uses the word "durr" to illustrate my intellect.

I don't feel that either response was appropriate.

Thudpucker
01-21-2008, 07:54 AM
You're seeking to give an opinion on the metric that they used to distinguish educated people from un-educated people.

It comes down to your own personal interpretation on a category that is used to denote whether a person attended college or not. They are not saying that someone who went to college is smart as opposed those who did not attend college being stupid.

I do get that. I just didn't realize that a H.S. education is the same as not having an education at all now. It's interesting. I wonder if the line will just keep getting drawn higher as more and more the majority of the public achieves higher learning. Perhaps in 10 years or so people with associate degree's will be classified as uneducated also?

dasNdanger
01-21-2008, 07:54 AM
My uncle is a doctor, and he's a complete ass.

Therefore, all doctors are asses. ;)

Like my logic there?


Actually, I do. I know there are some great doctors out there - but I haven't found one yet. I have a hormonal imbalance - with very annoying symptoms, including excessive hair growth (lifelong problem, not just because of age). I joke about it here, but really...it's quite annoying. I go to doctors, and they say, "your hormone/thyroid readings are normal...it's your NERVES." And then they give me hormones to 'treat' the symptoms, that - supposedly - are caused by 'nerves'. argh. Yeah, my nerves have turned me into a female version of Wolverine...mutton chops and all... :p

My sister finally found a decent doctor in Florida, and he told her that the whole 'normal hormonal range' thing is crap - it all depends on what is normal for the individual. He treated her for a thyroid problem that other doctors said she did not have, and now - for the first time in her life - she's not freezing and sleepy all the time.

Doctors - most, anyway - forget they are treating an INDIVIDUAL. What is normal for a 'test subject' obviously is not normal for me. Since I have outward signs that my estrogen is too low, and my testosterone is too high - it doesn't matter if they both fall in the 'normal' range if I - as an individual - don't fall within the normal range. And to be so ignorant as to blame obvious, outward symptoms of a hormonal imbalance on 'nerves', is just...prehistoric. So much for a college education, I say...if it closes your mind to the patient.

So I keep looking for a doctor like the one my sister found, with fingers crossed I'll find him before my boobs fall off, and I grow a set of balls instead.

sorry for the rant...it's the excess testosterone speaking...

;-)

das

DrMachine
01-21-2008, 07:59 AM
Actually, I do. I know there are some great doctors out there - but I haven't found one yet. I have a hormonal imbalance - with very annoying symptoms, including excessive hair growth (lifelong problem, not just because of age). I joke about it here, but really...it's quite annoying. I go to doctors, and they say, "your hormone/thyroid readings are normal...it's your NERVES." And then they give me hormones to 'treat' the symptoms, that - supposedly - are caused by 'nerves'. argh. Yeah, my nerves have turned me into a female version of Wolverine...mutton chops and all... :p

My sister finally found a decent doctor in Florida, and he told her that the whole 'normal hormonal range' thing is crap - it all depends on what is normal for the individual. He treated her for a thyroid problem that other doctors said she did not have, and now - for the first time in her life - she's not freezing and sleepy all the time.

Doctors - most, anyway - forget they are treating an INDIVIDUAL. What is normal for a 'test subject' obviously is not normal for me. Since I have outward signs that my estrogen is too low, and my testosterone is too high - it doesn't matter if they both fall in the 'normal' range if I - as an individual - don't fall within the normal range. And to be so ignorant as to blame obvious, outward symptoms of a hormonal imbalance on 'nerves', is just...prehistoric. So much for a college education, I say...if it closes your mind to the patient.

So I keep looking for a doctor like the one my sister found, with fingers crossed I'll find him before my boobs fall off, and I grow a set of balls instead.

sorry for the rant...but, see...my excess testosterone was kicking in...

;-)

das

One of the reasons I dropped out of the MD route was because medicine -IMO- really has become a business. Which is fine to a certain extent, but if I as an MD were only seeing patients that were profitable to the detriment of others then I would feel horrible about myself. This (again just my opinion) has come to mean that you get people in and out as quickly and cheaply as possible so that you can make your monthly kick up to your insurance bosses.

No thanks.

DrMachine
01-21-2008, 08:03 AM
I do get that. I just didn't realize that a H.S. education is the same as not having an education at all now. It's interesting. I wonder if the line will just keep getting drawn higher as more and more the majority of the public achieves higher learning. Perhaps in 10 years or so people with associate degree's will be classified as uneducated also?

Probably not. It isn't a subjective line. It is a hard line that is drawn between highschool and further education. I would imagine high school being available to all (Americans) makes it implied. The quality of education (high school or beyond) is one that can be debated, but then we get back to that subjective line.

I personally have met some very intelligent individuals who barely finished highschool, like wise I've met some Ivy Leaguers that did not deserve they money wasted on their education. However, when you refer to someone being educated or not it refers to college or no college.

Some people may find this offensive, and in a PC world I suppose it should be called a "Formal Education Beyond High School" but that's just fucking ridiculous.

AutumnHeart
01-21-2008, 08:07 AM
sorry for the rant...it's the excess testosterone speaking...


Das,

I think you and I have actually discussed this in passing before, because I also suffered from hormonal imbalances for years and years (until I lost a lot of weight, and even now I still get seemingly random spikes), and had the same problem: doctors refused to listen to what I was saying, and just threw birth control pills at me as the answer for all my problems.

I found female doctors were much worse than male doctors, but it's definitely trial and error to find someone who's educated enough to understand and treat your problem, without being "so educated" that they can't see anyone's opinion but their own.

noble
01-21-2008, 08:09 AM
I dropped out of high school. Never got my GED. That piece of paper wasn't going to make me smarter than I am.

Having said that, I've accomplished more, and got a better job than some college graduates.

Aside from some specific jobs(docs, lawyers), education will only get you so far. You need will and determination to make it out in the real world.

BCD
01-21-2008, 08:17 AM
I do get that. I just didn't realize that a H.S. education is the same as not having an education at all now. It's interesting. I wonder if the line will just keep getting drawn higher as more and more the majority of the public achieves higher learning. Perhaps in 10 years or so people with associate degree's will be classified as uneducated also?

It depends where you are and what field you want to work in. There are plenty of cases where a college degree now is almost meaningless because everyone you're competing with for the position has one. I know for myself and my friends, we all need more than just an undergraduate degree for what we want to do.

Around here a high school education means you can wait tables, and an undergrad degree means you can bartend.

It just depends what you want to do for your career, and what you need to be competitive in it.

DrMachine
01-21-2008, 08:20 AM
It depends where you are and what field you want to work in. There are plenty of cases where a college degree now is almost meaningless because everyone you're competing with for the position has one. I know for myself and my friends, we all need more than just an undergraduate degree for what we want to do.

Around here a high school education means you can wait tables, and an undergrad degree means you can bartend.

It just depends what you want to do for your career, and what you need to be competitive in it.
Just out of curiosity: in those specific cases...how do you fare without any college degree?

dasNdanger
01-21-2008, 08:22 AM
One of the reasons I dropped out of the MD route was because medicine -IMO- really has become a business. Which is fine to a certain extent, but if I as an MD were only seeing patients that were profitable to the detriment of others then I would feel horrible about myself. This (again just my opinion) has come to mean that you get people in and out as quickly and cheaply as possible so that you can make your monthly kick up to your insurance bosses.

No thanks.


Yes - that's exactly what I see happening. I had a great OB-GYN years back - old guy, would sit and talk with me - ask about problems I was having, GAVE ME OPTIONS, just took total interest in me. But he retired - now I go to a standard assembly line OB-GYN...in and out in ten minutes, flat...ignore the fact that I still have problems (PCOS), and NEVER discuss treatment options - ever.

I have an OB-GYN horror story. I made the mistake of going to this female doctor - I didn't want to, but she came highly recommended. I don't like female doctors, and her 'bedside manner' was horrible. She was so utterly arrogant and talked to me like a brainless child, even insulting me. I went to her twice, but after the insult - no more. My first visit was $110.00 - but they ran my credit card 3 times, so I got a bill for $330.00. I called my credit card and got it straightened out, with a $220.00 credit to me, and the original charge of $110.00 going to the doctor. Soon afterwards, I got a VERY curt letter from the doctor, basically saying 'tough - sorry you weren't happy with our service - here are your records." I had to call and clear things up for them...idiots. But...then it gets WORSE....

My friend contacted this doctor because she ran an ad for FREE mammogram testing. Well, my friend's husband was self-employed, and they had no health insurance. She jumped at the opportunity to get a free mammogram, especially since she had 4 children, and a history of breast cancer in her family. So, she called - told them about her family's medical history, and then - her 'fatal' mistake - said she was glad to be able to get a free mammogram because, without health insurance, she had no other way of getting one. Right there on the phone they said, "Sorry, you do not fit the profile of patients we are looking for," and HUNG UP ON HER!

I hate that doctor - with a passion. She was a money grubbing, ignorant bitch.


das

dasNdanger
01-21-2008, 08:35 AM
Das,

I think you and I have actually discussed this in passing before, because I also suffered from hormonal imbalances for years and years (until I lost a lot of weight, and even now I still get seemingly random spikes), and had the same problem: doctors refused to listen to what I was saying, and just threw birth control pills at me as the answer for all my problems.

I found female doctors were much worse than male doctors, but it's definitely trial and error to find someone who's educated enough to understand and treat your problem, without being "so educated" that they can't see anyone's opinion but their own.

EXACTLY!! See my post above about the horrors of female bitch doctors.

I know I have PCOS and insulin resistance - I know that...my old doctor told me that. But he retired. Neither, they tell me, are 'curable'. Now, now they just want to shove a pill in my face, and I don't want that, either. I've had symptoms since childhood - and like you say, they go away if I lose weight, get worse if I gain, etc...but never fully go away. Hitting mid-life is NOT helping. Doctors have suggested using insulin-controlling drugs - but the side affects are too scary for me right now (and my blood sugar is perfect, so I'm afraid of messing that up in the process). I am working on weight control/exercise - in hopes that it will be the best thing right now - but that is always a slow process, esp. at my age.

I haven't totally given up - but I'm starting to think that doing it on my own is going to be better than looking to the professionals for help. I know MORE about PCOS than any doctor - even my current OB-GYN - knows. They still are not convinced that it is a real condition.

das

DrMachine
01-21-2008, 08:37 AM
Yes - that's exactly what I see happening. I had a great OB-GYN years back - old guy, would sit and talk with me - ask about problems I was having, GAVE ME OPTIONS, just took total interest in me. But he retired - now I go to a standard assembly line OB-GYN...in and out in ten minutes, flat...ignore the fact that I still have problems (PCOS), and NEVER discuss treatment options - ever.

I have an OB-GYN horror story. I made the mistake of going to this female doctor - I didn't want to, but she came highly recommended. I don't like female doctors, and her 'bedside manner' was horrible. She was so utterly arrogant and talked to me like a brainless child, even insulting me. I went to her twice, but after the insult - no more. My first visit was $110.00 - but they ran my credit card 3 times, so I got a bill for $330.00. I called my credit card and got it straightened out, with a $220.00 credit to me, and the original charge of $110.00 going to the doctor. Soon afterwards, I got a VERY curt letter from the doctor, basically saying 'tough - sorry you weren't happy with our service - here are your records." I had to call and clear things up for them...idiots. But...then it gets WORSE....

My friend contacted this doctor because she ran an ad for FREE mammogram testing. Well, my friend's husband was self-employed, and they had no health insurance. She jumped at the opportunity to get a free mammogram, especially since she had 4 children, and a history of breast cancer in her family. So, she called - told them about her family's medical history, and then - her 'fatal' mistake - said she was glad to be able to get a free mammogram because, without health insurance, she had no other way of getting one. Right there on the phone they said, "Sorry, you do not fit the profile of patients we are looking for," and HUNG UP ON HER!

I hate that doctor - with a passion. She was a money grubbing, ignorant bitch.


das

I think the majority of people really believe that a Physician is doing their job to "help" people. Bottom line is they are doing it to make a living and turn a profit just like anyone else.

You just have to keep looking for the right fit.

AutumnHeart
01-21-2008, 08:39 AM
I haven't totally given up - but I'm starting to think that doing it on my own is going to be better than looking to the professionals for help. I know MORE about PCOS than any doctor - even my current OB-GYN - knows. They still are not convinced that it is a real condition.


I definitely recommend "self-treatment", as it were. The weight loss has diminished symptoms by 90%, easily; I don't think I ever had it as seriously as you probably do, but anything has to be better than the bullshit doctors will throw at you (up to and including, "I think it's just your nerves", which I also got a LOT) so they can avoid admitting that they don't know anything about your condition.

mike black
01-21-2008, 08:48 AM
Alot of people without formal higher education consider themselves self-educated and on par with anyone who went on to higher learning. I know I do. That might not mean much though.

I've always known that people who have degree's feel above those who didn't achieve them but I was suprised this morning.

That's an iffy statement. I don't think I'm as educated as a lot of people who took specialized education in college - but in terms of being well rounded I am.

RyanP
01-21-2008, 08:49 AM
I dropped out college a few times. I went a total of 3.5-4 years over an 6 year time period. I just never found anything that really interested me. Am I uneducated? No. Besides I can always go back and now with the job I have they'll pay for it.

dasNdanger
01-21-2008, 08:51 AM
I definitely recommend "self-treatment", as it were. The weight loss has diminished symptoms by 90%, easily; I don't think I ever had it as seriously as you probably do, but anything has to be better than the bullshit doctors will throw at you (up to and including, "I think it's just your nerves", which I also got a LOT) so they can avoid admitting that they don't know anything about your condition.

I honestly think the 'nerves' problem IS a symptom, not a CAUSE. My old doctor - the good, retired one - explained it to me this way - he said imagine all the chemicals in your body - the hormones, everything - estrogen, insulin - all of it - as pencils standing up, side by side in a line, attached by a sting. If you tilt one of those pencils, all the other pencils will tilt with it - none will be straight. So, he said, if one hormone/chemical is out of whack, they ALL are going to be out of whack.

This makes total sense to me.

And AH & DrM - thanks for the recommendations - and the encouragement. I think you've both just inspired me - with or without your diplomas!! :D

das

AutumnHeart
01-21-2008, 08:55 AM
That's an iffy statement. I don't think I'm as educated as a lot of people who took specialized education in college - but in terms of being well rounded I am.

I'll agree with that, as well. I can't think of any major in college that would have prepared me as well as my own self-training, and simple life experiences, have prepared me. I've done various levels of tech support, customer service, sales, graphic design, and now marketing, which is where I hope to stay.

Often, these skills had a domino-effect into one another. When I did customer service, I would start helping co-workers with their computer problems, and I got bumped into tech support. When they realized I knew graphic design, they yanked me into marketing. It's always surprising to people that I have these seemingly random skill sets that are all over the place, but I like being diversified.

BCD
01-21-2008, 09:04 AM
Just out of curiosity: in those specific cases...how do you fare without any college degree?

Your resume is thrown out and you're forgotten in 5 seconds.

jamestolliver
01-21-2008, 09:07 AM
My mom and dad never went to college but I consider them to be two of the smartest folks I know. That said, I'm planning on going to college next year.

Donal DeLay
01-21-2008, 10:54 AM
I dropped out of school at 16. Still haven't gone to get my GED, (I'll be getting it this year) and at many of the places where I've worked, I feel like I'm smarter than A LOT of the college educated managers.

Shit, I know for a fact I'm a better at spelling and grammar.

Alexander Hamilton
01-21-2008, 10:55 AM
Shit, I know for a fact I'm a better at spelling and grammar.

That was intentional, right?

Jef UK
01-21-2008, 11:00 AM
Shit, I know for a fact I'm a better at spelling and grammar.

:lol:

Thudpucker
01-21-2008, 11:01 AM
I think the tone of the survey suggested it. Either I think high school was the extent of my education, or I'm someone who uses the word "durr" to illustrate my intellect.

I don't feel that either response was appropriate.

I threw the poll on as a random thought, probably shouldn't have. This is just something I was wondering about on my drive into work this morning.

KingMob
01-21-2008, 11:02 AM
:lol:

shhh, he's on his way to middle management!

CapnChaos
01-21-2008, 11:03 AM
I went to college. Probably the biggest waste of time and money in my entire life given how little I've gotten from it.

Kirblar
01-21-2008, 11:05 AM
You're "uneducated" in that you don't have a degree, and there's a gigantic chasm between the types of jobs you don't need one for, and the ones you do.

It's a dividing line that shows class differences, not intelligence.

DrMachine
01-21-2008, 11:10 AM
I dropped out of school at 16. Still haven't gone to get my GED, (I'll be getting it this year) and at many of the places where I've worked, I feel like I'm smarter than A LOT of the college educated managers.

Shit, I know for a fact I'm a better at spelling and grammar.

nice

KingMob
01-21-2008, 11:12 AM
I went to college. Probably the biggest waste of time and money in my entire life given how little I've gotten from it.

I've found that college is pretty much what you make of it. Also it depends on where you go too. In my undergrad days I knew plenty of people that should have been flushed out after year one. Instead they went on skating by on academic probation every other semester until they graduated. It can be a money shell game too if you dont challenge yourself, doing the minimum so the university can suck your bank account cause you are retaking classes constantly. I'm not saying you fit this catagory though.

So with that being said I'm sure a college degree at bumfuck U is about the same as a HS diploma in some places. :lol:

CapnChaos
01-21-2008, 11:16 AM
I've found that college is pretty much what you make of it. Also it depends on where you go too. In my undergrad days I knew plenty of people that should have been flushed out after year one. Instead they went on skating by on academic probation every other semester until they graduated. It can be a money shell game too if you dont challenge yourself, doing the minimum so the university can suck your bank account cause you are retaking classes constantly. I'm not saying you fit this catagory though.

So with that being said I'm sure a college degree at bumfuck U is about the same as a HS diploma in some places. :lol:

I went through quite a few years thinking I was going into education until the same college took all desire to do so out of me. And I was so sick of school by that point, I just got a history degree. I knew I wouldn't do anything with it, but it got my mom off my back, who wouldn't stop griping about me needing a degree. So it's my own fault, but still a waste of money. I just think people need to rethink the idea that they "HAVE" to go to college. I would have been much better off figuring out what I wanted instead of wasting time on it. I probably wouldn't be confused and paying off loans right now figuring out what to do with my life.

TIP
01-21-2008, 11:19 AM
I dropped out of school at 16. Still haven't gone to get my GED, (I'll be getting it this year) and at many of the places where I've worked, I feel like I'm smarter than A LOT of the college educated managers.

Shit, I know for a fact I'm a better at spelling and grammar.


That was intentional, right?


:lol:


shhh, he's on his way to middle management!

:rofl:

T

KingMob
01-21-2008, 11:21 AM
I think if you drop out of school here before you are 18 you cant get a DL.

Thudpucker
01-21-2008, 11:37 AM
You're "uneducated" in that you don't have a degree, and there's a gigantic chasm between the types of jobs you don't need one for, and the ones you do.

It's a dividing line that shows class differences, not intelligence.

I do agree, especially about the class division rather than intelligence. I just never realized uneducated was the description for a High School graduate. Maybe it's because I graduated almost 20 years ago, maybe it has less value now than it did then.

KingMob
01-21-2008, 11:41 AM
Maybe it's because I graduated almost 20 years ago, maybe it has less value now than it did then.

Probably so, there are also private high schools that teach a lot of the same stuff that was standard way back when. Like Latin and all that jazz. who knows. Proabably depends a lot on your state's educational system too.

Kirblar
01-21-2008, 11:47 AM
High School is pretty much prepping you just to go to college, at least where I lived.

There's trades-programs available, but you had to isolate yourself from pretty much everyone else at the school to do them.

The fact is, with 60% of the population not going to college, public schools aren't really prepping a lot of people for graduation.

cmoney
01-21-2008, 12:41 PM
I went through quite a few years thinking I was going into education until the same college took all desire to do so out of me. And I was so sick of school by that point, I just got a history degree. I knew I wouldn't do anything with it, but it got my mom off my back, who wouldn't stop griping about me needing a degree. So it's my own fault, but still a waste of money. I just think people need to rethink the idea that they "HAVE" to go to college. I would have been much better off figuring out what I wanted instead of wasting time on it. I probably wouldn't be confused and paying off loans right now figuring out what to do with my life.

Almost my exact story, except the history degree is a political science one, and I'm not stuck paying off loans on account of scholarships and my father's forward-thinking money management. I really wish I had waited to go to college until I had a better idea what I wanted to accomplish there.

Jet
01-21-2008, 01:16 PM
There is a difference in being smart and being educated. Hell, one of my smartest friends in high school never graduated college for whatever reason but he's still smarter that I am. Am I more educated than he is? Yes, I have four college degrees and obviously, more qualified to do what I do for a living but based on pure smarts, he's got me hands down.

A college education is not the end all be all for all professions, but having it is essential for many. Depends what you want to do with your education. I know a lot of people feel that they have to go to college and there is that pressure that sends many to college who are not ready for it.

As to the question about being 'uneducated' if you didn't go to college, I think using the term 'uneducated' may be a poor word choice. Maybe say 'formal' education or 'formal higher' education. Uneducated just seems so condescending.

jess
01-21-2008, 01:24 PM
i graduated high school, but i don't think my education is entirely due to high school. i studied lots of different things and took lots of electives that i didn't have to take in order to get the most out of the time i was there.

i am NOT uneducated.

Donal DeLay
01-21-2008, 01:55 PM
doh!

Well, I said knew I was better, never said I was perfect. :D

Glixy
01-21-2008, 03:00 PM
I went to college... a few times. Never graduated though. Just because I'm not a person made for school, doesn't necessarily mean I'm uneducated. This is pretty infuriating and insulting.

This is literally EXACTLY what I was going to write.

Keith P.
01-21-2008, 03:08 PM
A degree opens up a lot of opportunities for jobs that those without them do not have a hope in hell of getting, jobs with better pay, benefits, etc.

If you do have the ability to pursue a higher education, you are a fool not to do so.

DrMachine
01-21-2008, 03:09 PM
I think it's interesting that people are getting bent out of shape with the term "uneducated". It's understandable that people don't like to think of themselves as stupid or "not smart" but the term uneducated doesn't mean that. It refers to a formal education beyond HS (in this case).

While attending college (or having a degree) doesn't guarantee that a person is "smart", it does mean that they are educated.

johnstumbo
01-21-2008, 04:06 PM
Some of the dumbest people I know have college degrees.

Pia Guerra
01-21-2008, 04:40 PM
I was an honour student in high school with straight As across the board, the teachers all expected I'd go on to University and get some kind of doctorate but I was so burnt out from high school that I took three years for myself before taking a semester of english classes. I had figured out I wanted to go into comics so I thought this would be a good start before taking art classes the next semester. I was bored to tears, some of the other students were frustrating beyond belief, and the sense I was getting from friends in the art program was that comics were frowned upon. I didn't have the money to waste taking classes that weren't going to help so I tossed it, found part time work and trained myself.

I feel educated, I think the grounding I got in high school really prepared me for the real world and maybe I'll take some classes in new technology later on. My own parents went back to college when I was in my teens so I don't think there's ever a time that's 'too late' for education.

batmanbooyah
01-21-2008, 05:35 PM
I think it's interesting that people are getting bent out of shape with the term "uneducated". It's understandable that people don't like to think of themselves as stupid or "not smart" but the term uneducated doesn't mean that. It refers to a formal education beyond HS (in this case).

While attending college (or having a degree) doesn't guarantee that a person is "smart", it does mean that they are educated.



neeeope. they are definately not educated even though they went through formal schooling. to be educated you should have some form of education. i know people who are educated in brick laying, but they didn't learn that a 4 year college.


i think formal schooling is in large part a bunch of crap. and yes i went to college. for FIVE years! So that makes me even MORE of an expert than everyone else! by a whole YEAR! man that last year rocked.

in anycase, college has some great opportunities, but for a LOT of people, it's the biggest waste of time they might ever experience. and i'm including the process of posting on message boards.

dEnny!
01-21-2008, 05:40 PM
Alot of people without formal higher education consider themselves self-educated and on par with anyone who went on to higher learning. I know I do. That might not mean much though.

I've always known that people who have degree's feel above those who didn't achieve them but I was suprised this morning.

As a degree holder I don't feel I am above anyone...there are so many other reasons people provide me daily for feeling above them. :p

Seriously though, one of the few differences I've felt between me and those who have not obtained a degree, and this only applies to those people who have crossed my paths, is that I decided to invest time and money into preparing myself more completely before beginning a career. The few people whom I have dealt with who have similar ambitions who have not worked towards a higher education degree are more focused on making money NOW, want to be rewarded NOW. One guy who was trying to get into a management position upon obtaining an acting management job asked this as his first question, "So...do I get to go to Keeneland with the other managers?"

He'd also make comments like, "I'll start dressing the part of a manager when they give me the job of a manager." He never wanted to invest into achieving any goal, he wanted instant gratification and THEN would meet up to the standards set forth.

I'm 2 classes away from obtaining an MBA, but don't be too impressed some of the people in my classes are idiots. I think they realized they better pad their resume somehow because once people figured out how stupid and mindless they were they were going to have some problems. It's very frustrating to deal with people who want to be spoon fed everything, but my experience has shown that is not lmiited to those with or without degrees.

dEnny!
01-21-2008, 05:47 PM
I hate to say this, but in some cases you are right. I lived w/ 4 college girls. The amount of time they cut class, threw mad parties and went to work/school drunk/stoned or both always amazed me. They seemed to not give a shit because their parents were paying for their education and their housing.

I work at a job now, and 90% of the mistakes/errors/fuck ups come from the 3 college students who work nights/weekends.

It is ironic, because one guy fucks up so bad all the time at the hotel, is in college with hospitality and finance as his majors.

and yet he always fucks up the cash drawers, mischarges guests Credit cards, and puts people in the wrong rooms, etc.

and yet, he is going to college for this shit.

Meanwhile, I am a drop out, and I am the person they count on all the time.

go figure.


*and no, I am not painting all college students as assholes. Just pointing out a few experiences I have had.

Many kids do go to college only to extend their playtime, but without the parental constraints from high school.

At the end of the day though, if they don't take it seriously and get SOMETHING out of all the money and time invested in a college education they will reap what they sow.

dEnny!
01-21-2008, 05:53 PM
I dropped out of school at 16. Still haven't gone to get my GED, (I'll be getting it this year) and at many of the places where I've worked, I feel like I'm smarter than A LOT of the college educated managers.

Shit, I know for a fact I'm a better at spelling and grammar.

I have a problem with people who go to college and obtain only a management degree. I received a management degree in addition to an accounting degree, one reason was to obtain 150 credit hours to allow me to sit for the CPA exam, this was a common solution to the new rule. However, I feel that you can learn everything from management courses by working and gaining experience. The only difference is you know the official name of what you are experiencing. Often times I'd sit in a management class or reading my textbook and a light would go off, "OH! So that's what (insert personal experience here)."

dEnny!
01-21-2008, 05:55 PM
Some of the dumbest people I know have college degrees.

Couldn't people easily make the opposite statement?

Some of the dumbest people I know don't college degrees.

Brad N.
01-21-2008, 05:57 PM
I think undereducated fits better, but I never went to college (aside from a semester at Bible College) and I think I'm smarter than most of the college grads I know. My buddy's wife is going to the U of M to be a doctor and she's VERY book smart and gets great grades but is about the dumbest and most naive person I know.

dEnny!
01-21-2008, 05:58 PM
It depends where you are and what field you want to work in. There are plenty of cases where a college degree now is almost meaningless because everyone you're competing with for the position has one. I know for myself and my friends, we all need more than just an undergraduate degree for what we want to do.

Around here a high school education means you can wait tables, and an undergrad degree means you can bartend.

It just depends what you want to do for your career, and what you need to be competitive in it.

This is one reason why I'm working towards my MBA. Afterwards I'm thinking I'll finally sit for the CPA exam.

dEnny!
01-21-2008, 05:59 PM
I think undereducated fits better, but I never went to college (aside from a semester at Bible College) and I think I'm smarter than most of the college grads I know. My buddy's wife is going to the U of M to be a doctor and she's VERY book smart and gets great grades but is about the dumbest and most naive person I know.

But we'd both probably go to her with any medical question we might have. ;)

Brad N.
01-21-2008, 06:54 PM
But we'd both probably go to her with any medical question we might have. ;)

Oh, absolutely and I have lots of respect for people as dedicated as you and her. The problem I have sometimes is seeing companies that value that piece of paper over experience simply because someone had the time and opportunity to dedicate their life for 4 years to extra schooling. For example, a few years back I had worked my way up from a position in production in a manufacturing company into the office to work as a technical writer. The guy before me was contracted out at something like $70,000 a year and he taught me everything he knew. After doing that job for a year and a half and taking care of a 3 year workload early when I asked about having the job permanantly the manager told me it was impossible since I didn't have a degree. She said it didn't matter what it was in and could be basketweaving for all she cared so long as it was a degree in something.

They preferred to hire an early 20 something kid fresh out of school with a degree in political science and NO experience over me who had already been doing the job well for 18 months. Same goes for my wife's sister. She has a communications degree and ended up getting a job working for the county in social services knowing nothing about the field simply because the only requirement to get the job was a degree. I have nothing against people getting a higher education, but to me it's silly to ignore life experience in favor of a piece of paper when that degree has nothing to do with the field.

dEnny!
01-21-2008, 06:59 PM
Oh, absolutely and I have lots of respect for people as dedicated as you and her. The problem I have sometimes is seeing companies that value that piece of paper over experience simply because someone had the time and opportunity to dedicate their life for 4 years to extra schooling. For example, a few years back I had worked my way up from a position in production in a manufacturing company into the office to work as a technical writer. The guy before me was contracted out at something like $70,000 a year and he taught me everything he knew. After doing that job for a year and a half and taking care of a 3 year workload early when I asked about having the job permanantly the manager told me it was impossible since I didn't have a degree. She said it didn't matter what it was in and could be basketweaving for all she cared so long as it was a degree in something.

They preferred to hire an early 20 something kid fresh out of school with a degree in political science and NO experience over me who had already been doing the job well for 18 months. Same goes for my wife's sister. She has a communications degree and ended up getting a job working for the county in social services knowing nothing about the field simply because the only requirement to get the job was a degree. I have nothing against people getting a higher education, but to me it's silly to ignore life experience in favor of a piece of paper when that degree has nothing to do with the field.

Your situation is ridiculous. And honestly, that manager needs to grow a pair. It's one thing when you are choosing candidates based on a resumes, I can understand making a degree an important hiring aspect, IF it is within the field, but when you have someone DOING the job for 18 months to rather go out and hire someone with no experience, let alone experience in the field, because they have a degree...that's just BAD management.

AutumnHeart
01-22-2008, 03:52 AM
They preferred to hire an early 20 something kid fresh out of school with a degree in political science and NO experience over me who had already been doing the job well for 18 months. Same goes for my wife's sister. She has a communications degree and ended up getting a job working for the county in social services knowing nothing about the field simply because the only requirement to get the job was a degree. I have nothing against people getting a higher education, but to me it's silly to ignore life experience in favor of a piece of paper when that degree has nothing to do with the field.

I ran into this exact same problem. Worked for a company doing a mix of customer service and tech support for about two and a half years. Always had the highest productivity rate in my department, always took on other projects for other departments, designed their corporate Intranet, and got glowing annual reviews. A position opened up in their "contract sales" department (basically, re-selling the software license to people who already used it), and I went to apply. They wouldn't allow me to apply for the position because I didn't have a degree.

Joe Kalicki
01-22-2008, 03:56 AM
Neither me nor any of my friends have graduated college and we're the smartest, most self-educated group of people you could hope to meet. Although we're all retarded when we get together.

Plus, granted I've worked in security for almost a decade, but I've never met a superior at work who was more educated than myself.

bobinskil
01-22-2008, 04:38 AM
I've read a whole shitload of articles about studies that are showing college grads aren't doing too well and don't know as much as they should. Yes you graduated from college. No you didn't learn the right things.

Though, schools do have libraries and shit so it's mostly the students' fault that they're so dumb. You can't depend on other people all the time. But then...the colleges would go out of business...suddenly people everywhere would start learning on their own and the only schools still around would be technical and trade schools...it's almost as though these folks are getting ripped off! My god imagine that. Paying people to fail at their jobs!

Of course the odds of meeting a well rounded person, intellectually speaking, who didn't go to a university are pretty damn slim.

Everyone is dumb, basically. All a bunch of stupid shits. I should be 100 times more intelligent. We have the internet. People should be brilliant.

But we aren't because people are dumb and backwards. And ironic. Or maybe we aren't ironic. I wouldn't know because I didn't go to college. It just sounds good right now.

CapnChaos
01-22-2008, 05:11 AM
Almost my exact story, except the history degree is a political science one, and I'm not stuck paying off loans on account of scholarships and my father's forward-thinking money management. I really wish I had waited to go to college until I had a better idea what I wanted to accomplish there.

Thnkfully I'm only paying off a couple semesters worth because I worked my ass off in the summers, but yeah, it puts you in a hole. Especially if you're stupid and ended up with credit card debt like me. This year is basically just me living really off the grid and paying off things to get my finances back on track before I can do anything else. And after everything I've gone through in the last few months, it's not the best place to "start over."

Even though I never buy tickets, I'm really hoping to win the lottery. :lol:

DrMachine
01-22-2008, 07:12 AM
neeeope. they are definately not educated even though they went through formal schooling. to be educated you should have some form of education. i know people who are educated in brick laying, but they didn't learn that a 4 year college.


i think formal schooling is in large part a bunch of crap. and yes i went to college. for FIVE years! So that makes me even MORE of an expert than everyone else! by a whole YEAR! man that last year rocked.

in anycase, college has some great opportunities, but for a LOT of people, it's the biggest waste of time they might ever experience. and i'm including the process of posting on message boards.

the ability to lay bricks is a skill, that person is a skilled laborer

formal schooling IS in large part a bunch of crap, unfortunately it is a bunch of crap that is pretty much required for most jobs today