Help Barack Obama beat Hillary

[Hollingsworth]

Wanna help?

GO donate. Even if it's only $20. Help him get his message out. Stop the Clinton dynasty. Go go go!


Barack Obama 2008 (http://www.barackobama.com/index.php)

[Ben]

Wouldn't my $20 be better spent bribing someone to vote for Obama?

[Matt Jay]

What the- this isn't an OMD thread!

[Kirblar]

We have the next Norman Hsu!

[allanpat]

Wouldn't my $20 be better spent bribing someone to vote for Obama?

or buying a usb drive to Obama-hack the already-Hillary-hacked diebold machines

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/148/414916629_0c20fcc85a_b.jpg

[Forrest]

Wouldn't my $20 be better spent bribing someone to vote for Obama?

In 2004, I was a hardcore Nader voter* and my Kerry supporter girlfriend was so intense about her Kerry support that on the day before elections, she offered to let me do "anything to her body" if I voted Kerry instead.




*I was so hardcore, I still ended up voting Nader. Now, I question that decision. :p

[Kirblar]

A vote for Nader is always a vote for the Republican candidate.

[Albert]

What if I like Hillary?

[Rosdower 3.0]

*I was so hardcore, I still ended up voting Nader. Now, I question that decision. :p

what!? :no:

[Rosdower 3.0]

or buying a usb drive to Obama-hack the already-Hillary-hacked diebold machines

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/148/414916629_0c20fcc85a_b.jpg

NOT that I am going to tamper with election equipment, but just how would a USB drive un-tamper a machine? Just curious here...

[Doc Randy]

A vote for Nader is always a vote for the Republican candidate.

I hate that mentality.

It is undemocratic, uninformed, and unproductive.

[Kirblar]

What if I like Hillary?
You should go talk to some independent voters about how they feel.

And quickly realize what happens to her in a general election.

[Kirblar]

I hate that mentality.

It is undemocratic, uninformed, and unproductive.
It's not a mentality. It's the truth.

[allanpat]

NOT that I am going to tamper with election equipment, but just how would a USB drive un-tamper a machine? Just curious here...

i forget the exact specifics of it, but i believe the USB drive needs to be loaded with voting data to replace what's currently in the machine.

[WillieLee]

I hate that mentality.

It is undemocratic, uninformed, and unproductive.

You're going to take your two parties and like it, mister!

[Doc Randy]

It's not a mentality. It's the truth.

No, it is not the truth.

A vote for Nader is a vote for Nader. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Hollingsworth]

What if I like Hillary?

Then I feel sorry for you. Even people I know who are voting for her don't *like* her.

[Kirblar]

No, it is not the truth.
Because voting Nader in 2000 really helped the world in a positive way? Had any impact beyond sending Bush to the White House?

It's one thing to vote for a viable third party. It's another to vote in a close election for someone who essentially flushes your vote down the toilet.

[Roger]

then i would feel like i was being robbed by a ...ummm

nevermind

go edwards!!!!

[PhoenixFactor]

sorry, voting for hillary here. Obama lacks experience.

[Albert]

Then I feel sorry for you. Even people I know who are voting for her don't *like* her.

You have to admit she has great skin for a 60 year old!

[Ben]

You have to admit she has great skin for a 60 year old!And apparently she can "show emotion."

[Rosemary's Baby]

sorry, voting for hillary here. Obama lacks experience.
Hillary doesn't have much more.

[Hollingsworth]

You have to admit she has great skin for a 60 year old!

No I don't.

Every time I hear her speak, I think "Do I want to hear that voice for the next 8 years?" And the answer is no fucking way. She's full of shit. I felt the same way about Kerry. Mind you, if it's Hillary versus ANYONE on the Republican side, she gets my vote. But if Bloomberg is in the race with Hillary, I will likely vote for him instead.

[Ben]

Because voting Nader in 2000 really helped the world in a positive way? Had any impact beyond sending Bush to the White House?

It's one thing to vote for a viable third party. It's another to vote in a close election for someone who essentially flushes your vote down the toilet.People shouldn't be made to feel bad for voting for candidates they actually like.

[Generic Poster]

In 2004, I was a hardcore Nader voter* and my Kerry supporter girlfriend was so intense about her Kerry support that on the day before elections, she offered to let me do "anything to her body" if I voted Kerry instead.




*I was so hardcore, I still ended up voting Nader. Now, I question that decision. :p

You were foolish not to take full advantage of the secret ballot.

[Albert]

Hillary doesn't have much more.

http://www.bustedtees.com/bt/images/BT-pedro-featured-956.jpg

[yeamon]

I can't say I've ever "liked" a politician. Would be similar to saying I've "liked" any coach I ever had... which I haven't.

But Hillary has my vote. And she had it before she proved she could cry on cue.

[Rosemary's Baby]

I can't say I've ever "liked" a politician. Would be similar to saying I've "liked" any coach I ever had... which I haven't.

But Hillary has my vote. And she had it before she proved she could cry on cue.

That's just the stripper in the cake.

[Josh!]

On Nader:

The 2000 election was Gore's to lose. Nader didn't spoil it, Gore ran a shitty campaign.

2004 was more of a toss-up, but again, Kerry ran a shitty campaign.

This election is a democrats to lose, but guess what? Democrats are really, really good at losing. Not Nader, Democrats.

[Albert]

No I don't.

Every time I hear her speak, I think "Do I want to hear that voice for the next 8 years?" And the answer is no fucking way. She's full of shit. I felt the same way about Kerry. Mind you, if it's Hillary versus ANYONE on the Republican side, she gets my vote. But if Bloomberg is in the race with Hillary, I will likely vote for him instead.

I liked Kerry. He was a pretty huge loser though. It takes real talent to lose to an opponent that had a hit summer movie about what a moron he is.

[allanpat]

sorry, voting for hillary here. Obama lacks experience.

he also lacks divisiveness. Every time Hillary talks it's always 'we need to beat those evil Republicans!!' - which only serves to fuel the red-state blue-state divide. In the end the only thing that is going to accomplish is to power up the Republican base in an anti-Hillary movement and lead to them taking back power and continuing the cycle.

Barack is the only candidate who really has the power to bring us all together and break that cycle.

[Capt. Canada]

Wanna help?

GO donate. Even if it's only $20. Help him get his message out. Stop the Clinton dynasty. Go go go!


Barack Obama 2008 (http://www.barackobama.com/index.php)

I'm not American so I'm keeping my $20.00 bucks!

[Ben]

I can't say I've ever "liked" a politician. Would be similar to saying I've "liked" any coach I ever had... which I haven't.

But Hillary has my vote. And she had it before she proved she could cry on cue.I loved Gore (I had a signed photograph on my wall for years), I liked Dean, I like Biden.

[Doc Randy]

Because voting Nader in 2000 really helped the world in a positive way? Had any impact beyond sending Bush to the White House?

It's one thing to vote for a viable third party. It's another to vote in a close election for someone who essentially flushes your vote down the toilet.

1) Nader didn't cost Gore the election in 2000.

2) It is both ignorant and condescending to say that people voting for the person that best represents their views is flushing their vote down the toilet.

3) Just because your candidate may not win, doesn't in anyway mean you shouldn't vote for your candidate. For example, in 2000, Bush was a guaranteed win in Texas. Did everyone who voted for Gore in Texas throw their vote away? They voted for someone they knew wouldn't win. How are they given a pass for "flushing their vote down the toilet" but Nader's supporters aren't?

4) The only way we can have viable third parties is if people abandon the limited perspective that you are posting and start voting for the candidate that reflects their views, regardless of outcome.

5) Stop choosing the lessor of two evils and stop embracing the evil of two lessors.

[/(. . )/]

Hillary doesn't have much more.

Hillary lived in the White House for 8 years. There is no candidate more experienced than she is.

However, I would like to see the country go in a new direction, where Obama wants to take things. He feels fresh to me.

Of course he doesn't have her experience, but is it really necessary?

[Rosdower 3.0]

sorry, voting for hillary here. Obama lacks experience.

yeah, she has bad experience.

[Doc Randy]

Not sleeping with the President for 8 years hardly counts as significant experience in my book.

What else did she do in the Whitehouse? Her one big project failed out of the gate. She wasn't given clearance for any security meetings or briefings. She didn't hold any official policy position.

She has some experience in the Senate, but so do plenty of others.

So again... what specific executive experience makes Hillary so "experienced"?

[Matt Jay]

I liked Kerry. He was a pretty huge loser though. It takes real talent to lose to an opponent that had a hit summer movie about what a moron he is.

That's because they were able to hate him after they came up with the swift boating and flip-flopping. With Hillary, the hate's already there. It won't get better.

[/(. . )/]

1) Nader didn't cost Gore the election in 2000.

2) It is both ignorant and condescending to say that people voting for the person that best represents their views is flushing their vote down the toilet.

3) Just because your candidate may not win, doesn't in anyway mean you shouldn't vote for your candidate. For example, in 2000, Bush was a guaranteed win in Texas. Did everyone who voted for Gore in Texas throw their vote away? They voted for someone they knew wouldn't win. How are they given a pass for "flushing their vote down the toilet" but Nader's supporters aren't?

4) The only way we can have viable third parties is if people abandon the limited perspective that you are posting and start voting for the candidate that reflects their views, regardless of outcome.

5) Stop choosing the lessor of two evils and stop embracing the evil of two lessors.
I agree with you, however I agree with Kirblar as well.

I lived in FL in 2000 and voted for Nader.

Looking back, I realize that I did "throw my vote away." The idea was to get the Green Party 5% of the vote.

However, we all knew that he would not become president. I regret not voting for Gore. My vote could have made a difference in the contested election.

Next time I will use my vote to make a difference over voting for my principles. What good are principles without ramifications?

[Jason California]

1) Nader didn't cost Gore the election in 2000.

2) It is both ignorant and condescending to say that people voting for the person that best represents their views is flushing their vote down the toilet.

3) Just because your candidate may not win, doesn't in anyway mean you shouldn't vote for your candidate. For example, in 2000, Bush was a guaranteed win in Texas. Did everyone who voted for Gore in Texas throw their vote away? They voted for someone they knew wouldn't win. How are they given a pass for "flushing their vote down the toilet" but Nader's supporters aren't?

4) The only way we can have viable third parties is if people abandon the limited perspective that you are posting and start voting for the candidate that reflects their views, regardless of outcome.

5) Stop choosing the lessor of two evils and stop embracing the evil of two lessors.

Go Randy !

I have voted for one of the losers every election since I was 18:)

I would rather be happy with my choice that settle for someone I think will take us up shit creek slower than the other guy, or now woman.

Someone needs to vote for their ideals if for no other reason to keep these ideas out there. Change does not happen over night. It needs to build steam.

[artimoff]

Move back to america & maybe I'll listen.

[King of Mars]

Because voting Nader in 2000 really helped the world in a positive way? Had any impact beyond sending Bush to the White House?

It's one thing to vote for a viable third party. It's another to vote in a close election for someone who essentially flushes your vote down the toilet.Third parties will never be "viable" unless people actually vote for their candidates. The "lesser of two evils" approach to voting only helps to maintain the status quo.

[/(. . )/]

Not sleeping with the President for 8 years hardly counts as significant experience in my book.

Do you mean "sleeping with?"

I don't know their personal life, but as a married couple, I would venture to say that she ran the country for 8 years and that if she is elected, Bill would be running things again with her. Because they are a couple. You get one of their names, but both brains.

[artimoff]

1) Nader didn't cost Gore the election in 2000.

2) It is both ignorant and condescending to say that people voting for the person that best represents their views is flushing their vote down the toilet.

3) Just because your candidate may not win, doesn't in anyway mean you shouldn't vote for your candidate. For example, in 2000, Bush was a guaranteed win in Texas. Did everyone who voted for Gore in Texas throw their vote away? They voted for someone they knew wouldn't win. How are they given a pass for "flushing their vote down the toilet" but Nader's supporters aren't?

4) The only way we can have viable third parties is if people abandon the limited perspective that you are posting and start voting for the candidate that reflects their views, regardless of outcome.

5) Stop choosing the lessor of two evils and stop embracing the evil of two lessors.

WOW! I agree 100% with Randi on something.

[yeamon]

I loved Gore (I had a signed photograph on my wall for years), I liked Dean, I like Biden.

I would vote for all of those guys. But I wouldn't have any of them over for dinner, or loan them any money.

[/(. . )/]

Move back to america & maybe I'll listen.

:-?

[Rosemary's Baby]

Move back to america & maybe I'll listen.

You are aware of the impact that America has on the rest of the world, right?

[allanpat]

1) Nader didn't cost Gore the election in 2000.

You're right - the election was stolen from Gore by Jeb Bush, the Supreme Court, and hanging chads...

[Kirblar]

Work with what you have, rather than what you want.

Pragmatism should almost always trump Idealism.

It's the biggest reason why I'm supporting Obama.

Clinton's "experience" led her to authorize military action vs. Iraq. Meaning one of two things: She's either easily misled and foolish, or she's a chickenshit unwilling to vote how she really felt in a hostile political environment, worried about how this would affect her future election chances.

Neither option looks good on her.

[Doc Randy]

Do you mean "sleeping with?"

I don't know their personal life, but as a married couple, I would venture to say that she ran the country for 8 years and that if she is elected, Bill would be running things again with her. Because they are a couple. You get one of their names, but both brains.

1) I specifically said "not sleeping with..." I was being funny - or trying at least. :twisted:

2) Presidential spouses don't get equal security clearance, they don't get to sit in on all the meetings, they don't get the PDBs, they "run" the country at all. In fact, the President is very limited by law in what they are allowed to share with their spouses.

[allanpat]

Clinton's "experience" led her to authorize military action vs. Iraq. Meaning one of two things: She's either easily misled and foolish, or she's a chickenshit unwilling to vote how she really felt in a hostile political environment, worried about how this would affect her future election chances.

Bingo - this is Hillary's biggest flaw. She's a career politician that's more concerned about partisan politics than doing what's best for the country.

We need a change from this, especially after the last 7 years. Obama save us!!

[/(. . )/]

Spouses don't get equal security clearance, they don't get to sit in on all the meetings, they don't get the PDBs, they "run" the country at all.

yet they do talk about work at dinner and help each other make decisions

[Matt Jay]

Work with what you have, rather than what you want.

Pragmatism should almost always trump Idealism.

It's the biggest reason why I'm supporting Obama.

Clinton's "experience" led her to authorize military action vs. Iraq. Meaning one of two things: She's either easily misled and foolish, or she's a chickenshit unwilling to vote how she really felt in a hostile political environment, worried about how this would affect her future election chances.
Neither option looks good on her.

Bingo. She doesn't lead, she follows polls.

[Kirblar]

If Obama ever does decide to throw the gauntlet down, the Iraq war vote and its implications on Hillary's character is an absolute gigantic target. He keeps making the point subtly, but the time for subtlety may be over.

[Hollingsworth]

I agree with a lot of what's here.

I am sick of both sides hating each other and screaming back and forth. Hillary has been a part of that for many many years. I really don't want to see her get in there and this heavy rhetoric between the parties continue to make sure that nothing good gets done for anyone. I also don't want to see a dynasty. I wasn't all that happy with Bill Clinton when he was in there. Sure, by comparison to Bush he looks golden. But I remember him. I voted for him in 1992. He wasn't the best president. And some of this heavy hatred between the parties is his fault, and hers too. Fuck that shit. What, she goes in for 8 years, then we get Jeb Bush?

Fuck the Bushes and the Clintons.

The Republicans don't hate Obama the way they hate her. He has a chance to actually get something done instead of just bickering.

And she's a true politician, like others have pointed out. She changes with the wind. She voted to give Bush the power to go INTO Iraq too. Fuck her.

[RebootedCorpse]

What's wrong with a Clinton dynasty? Better than Ming.

[Kirblar]

The conservative columnists actually seem to really like Obama. They disagree with his policies, but they see a liberal realist/pragmatist with real leadership abilities, and like him as a person.

In the end, people still want to vote for a person, not experiences or issues. The "Nader" emotional votes here show that. Make a statement, make a stand.

The same people who won't vote for a woman are likely the exact same individuals who won't vote for a black guy. The problem is, that Hillary isn't just a random woman, she's gone on television and complained of a "Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy" and been in the public eye for 16 years.

[Khrutch]

No thanks, electing Obama President would be like giving a child the keys to the gun cabinet and hoping he doesn't shoot himself. I have nothing against the guy personally, but he is not qualified to be President.

I still say the Democrats should go with Edwards.

[Amos Moses]

What's wrong with a Clinton dynasty? Better than Ming.

This is America. We don't do political dynasties.

[Forrest]

No thanks, electing Obama President would be like giving a child the keys to the gun cabinet and hoping he doesn't shoot himself.

Electing Clinton would be like allowing the trench coat mafia parents to adopt depressed preteen white boys and take them out target practicing every weekend.

[artimoff]

http://www.southofboston.net/specialreports/election06/images/Kennedy-lb-10250667.jpg
This is America. We don't do political dynasties.

[Rosemary's Baby]

No thanks, electing Obama President would be like giving a child the keys to the gun cabinet and hoping he doesn't shoot himself. I have nothing against the guy personally, but he is not qualified to be President.

I still say the Democrats should go with Edwards.

I'm beginning to think experience has less and less to do with it.

[artimoff]

You are aware of the impact that America has on the rest of the world, right?


Vote Ron Paul & then the're will be less impact.

[Rosemary's Baby]

Vote Ron Paul & then the're will be less impact.

No.

[allanpat]

No thanks, electing Obama President would be like giving a child the keys to the gun cabinet and hoping he doesn't shoot himself.

That's the dumbest thing i've read on this board to date.

Just because he hasn't spent 30+ years in the Senate becoming a jaded politician makes him unqualified? He's a natural leader, and that's what this country needs - not another career politician who only has their own personal interests at stake ahead of the country.

Also, for every area where Obama is inexperienced, he can select an appropriate cabinet member to advise him. That's what cabinets are for.

[RebootedCorpse]

This is America. We don't do political dynasties.

Adams
Good
Roosevelt
point
Bush

[/(. . )/]

No thanks, electing Obama President would be like giving a child the keys to the gun cabinet and hoping he doesn't shoot himself. I have nothing against the guy personally, but he is not qualified to be President.


How so?

[Albert]

No thanks, electing Obama President would be like giving a child the keys to the gun cabinet and hoping he doesn't shoot himself. I have nothing against the guy personally, but he is not qualified to be President.


Electing Clinton would be like allowing the trench coat mafia parents to adopt depressed preteen white boys and take them out target practicing every weekend.

Bring back "Crossfire" ASAP, starring these two!

[RebootedCorpse]

After GW, the issue of qualifications is officially null and void.

[allanpat]

After GW, the issue of qualifications is officially null and void.

yup, apparently all you need is to do a shitload of coke, then discover Jesus when you're 40.

[Doc Randy]

No thanks, electing Obama President would be like giving a child the keys to the gun cabinet and hoping he doesn't shoot himself. I have nothing against the guy personally, but he is not qualified to be President.

I still say the Democrats should go with Edwards.

And what are Edwards's qualifications that make him superior to Obama? Edwards has only served on political office so far - one term in the Senate. That's it.

Obama has been a US Senator and was also a State Senator for Illinois. Seems like he actually has MORE political experience than Edwards.

[(akaRyanHoffman)]

And apparently she can "show emotion."


I remember one of my psychology teachers in college talking about being fascinated by the Clintons and how they were classic cases of sociopathic personalities.


I tend to think a lot of politicians are sociopaths.

[artimoff]

yup, apparently all you need is to do a shitload of coke, then discover Jesus when you're 40.

Name someone who actually saw Bush do Coke.

[JoeE]

This is America. We don't do political dynasties.

Heh...Adams, Rockefeller, Byrd, Bush, Clinton, Romney, Kennedy, Roosevelt, Gore, Daley, Taft...

[Forrest]

yup, apparently all you need is to do a shitload of coke, then discover Jesus when you're 40.

If you ask me, the man has yet to truly discover Jesus.

[Albert]

I think the "we don't do political dynasties" guy was being sarcastic. I think.

[artimoff]

If you ask me, the man has yet to truly discover Jesus.

Jesus was a liberal.

[Kirblar]

He discovered something that would immediately justify every single one of his decisions.

[JoeE]

Jesus was a liberal.

Jesus was a crazy end-timer. Politics didn't mean much to him, because the world was going to end soon anyway.

[artimoff]

I think the "we don't do political dynasties" guy was being sarcastic. I think.

Peanut? Sarcastic? :Panic:

[allanpat]

Name someone who actually saw Bush do Coke.

I would, but the records have been *shock* expunged
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_substance_abuse_controversy

[Albert]

Jesus was a liberal.

Jesus don't want me for a sunbeam.

[Sehestedt]

The more I read discussions like this (here and elsewhere), the more I'm convinced we're looking at another 8 years of a Republican White House.

[Magnum V.I.]

The more I read discussions like this (here and elsewhere), the more I'm convinced we're looking at another 8 years of a Republican White House.

I really don't understand why now every talks about the next president staying in office for 8 years. It seems unlikely to me, regardless of the trends of the last 16 years.


I think whoever is voted the next president will only be in office for 4 years.

But this isn't based on anything but me thinking so.

[(akaRyanHoffman)]

The more I read discussions like this (here and elsewhere), the more I'm convinced we're looking at another 8 years of a Republican White House.

I was convinced of this right after the last election. It's makes me sad.

[Kirblar]

The more I read discussions like this (here and elsewhere), the more I'm convinced we're looking at another 8 years of a Republican White House.
If it's Hillary v. McCain, we probably are.

Romney was the easy beat on the Republican side, but everyone wised up to the fact that he was full of shit.

[Matt Jay]

If it's Hillary v. McCain, we probably are.

Romney was the easy beat on the Republican side, but everyone wised up to the fact that he was full of shit.

I can't imagine Hillary beating any of the potential Rep nods. The only thing that'll get Reps off their asses and voting more than Hillary is a terrorist attack.

[lonesomefool]

I dont care if it's Obama or Edwards (I would prefer Edwards), I do NOT want Hillary back in office. Some fresh blood would not be a bad thing....

I do admit it's funny that in an election that SHOULD be the easiest ever for a democrat (people hate this shit war, the economy is total shit and is only going to get worse, etc) and they are gonna nominate a woman or a black man rather than the white, southeran Democrat. Look, I like Obama, but it's almost as if the Democratic party, the party I lean towards, doesnt want to win this election.

[yeamon]

Obama has been a US Senator and was also a State Senator for Illinois.

Speaking as a citizen of the great state of Illinois, and one more familiar than one really cares to be with the history and political machine of our state government, I will say this is not necessarily a good thing. Democrats, Republicans, Independents, whatever... the one thing that never changes in Illinois politics is the corruption.

Our last governor is just starting to serve his prison term. And all evidence is pointing to a cell waiting for the current governor when his term is over.

[Kirblar]

I can't imagine Hillary beating any of the potential Rep nods. The only thing that'll get Reps off their asses and voting more than Hillary is a terrorist attack.
An inanimate object could beat Romney. He's the republican version of Kerry.

[Kirblar]

Speaking as a citizen of the great state of Illinois, and one more familiar than one really cares to be with the history and political machine of our state government, I will say this is not necessarily a good thing. Democrats, Republicans, Independents, whatever... the one thing that never changes in Illinois politics is the corruption.

Our last governor is just starting to serve his prison term. And all evidence is pointing to a cell waiting for the current governor when his term is over.
Obama worked on passage of ethics reforms in the U.S. senate alongside McCain.

[Matt Jay]

An inanimate object could beat Romney. He's the republican version of Kerry.

They would rally behind him when the alternative is communism at the hands of the one they call "Hitlery".

[Forrest]

I can't imagine Hillary beating any of the potential Rep nods. The only thing that'll get Reps off their asses and voting more than Hillary is a terrorist attack.

Wouldn't a terrorist attack on U.S. soil suggest that Republican supported means have been ineffective at preventing terrorism, despite the incredible resources used by Bush and his Republican colleges?

[Matt Jay]

Wouldn't a terrorist attack on U.S. soil suggest that Republican supported means have been ineffective at preventing terrorism, despite the incredible resources used by Bush and his Republican colleges?

To a thinking person, yes.

[lonesomefool]

Wouldn't a terrorist attack on U.S. soil suggest that Republican supported means have been ineffective at preventing terrorism, despite the incredible resources used by Bush and his Republican colleges?

Nah, if we had an attack, people would just start seeing blood like they did after 9/11 and want to go kill somebody. The Republicans would promise to do just that. I dont trust Americans to be rational anymore.

[Amos Moses]

Heh...Adams, Rockefeller, Byrd, Bush, Clinton, Romney, Kennedy, Roosevelt, Gore, Daley, Taft...

Yes, we have some very powerful political families in America, but a Rockafeller in the Senate isn't a dynasty. Until GW, we only had one situation of a father and son being President. The Roosevelts were cousins, I wouldn't call that a dynasty. But if Hilary got elected, that would be 20+ of two families controlling the Presidency. Maybe dynasty isn't the right word, more like a bipolar monarcy. Either way, I think it's un-American, and one of the many reasons I don't support Hilary, regardless of what I thought of Bill.

[JoeE]

Wouldn't a terrorist attack on U.S. soil suggest that Republican supported means have been ineffective at preventing terrorism, despite the incredible resources used by Bush and his Republican colleges?

A couple of years ago I would have said no, because whatever their failings Republicans are still by far the more trusted party on national security issues. But since Bush has managed to blow that to shit, I'm not sure how it would affect the election.

[Amos Moses]

Wouldn't a terrorist attack on U.S. soil suggest that Republican supported means have been ineffective at preventing terrorism, despite the incredible resources used by Bush and his Republican colleges?

To Bush supporters, "not getting attacked again after 9/11" is touted as an accomplishment. Not getting attacked peroid is an accomplishment. Not fucking up again is not something you brag about.

[Sehestedt]

An inanimate object could beat Romney. He's the republican version of Kerry.

He's actually George W. Bush, Part 2. And no matter how blatantly corrupt or apparently stupid Bush is, he still managed to hold on to the White House for 8 years.

[yeamon]

Obama worked on passage of ethics reforms in the U.S. senate alongside McCain.

Yeah, there are a list of words that trigger the alarm on the old bullshit detector every time they are mentioned during the debates. One of those words is "ethics" and another is "reform".

The other night the word was "personal". When every candidate (especially Edwards) felt the need to express how "personal" this campaign is to them. In each instance it was used, I was responding out loud (without the kids in the room), "Who gives a fuck?".

[JoeE]

Yes, we have some very powerful political families in America, but a Rockafeller in the Senate isn't a dynasty.

There have been Rockefeller governors, Rockefeller lieutenant governors, and Rockefeller vice Presidents too, to say nothing of the myriad of non-government but powerful nonetheless corporate positions that have been held by Rockefellers over the family's history. They are most certainly a dynasty - maybe not on the level of the Kennedys or the Bushes, but a dynasty nonetheless.


Maybe dynasty isn't the right word, more like a bipolar monarcy. Either way, I think it's un-American, and one of the many reasons I don't support Hilary, regardless of what I thought of Bill.

Agree 100%.

[PeterSparker]

I agree with a lot of what's here.

I am sick of both sides hating each other and screaming back and forth. Hillary has been a part of that for many many years. I really don't want to see her get in there and this heavy rhetoric between the parties continue to make sure that nothing good gets done for anyone. I also don't want to see a dynasty. I wasn't all that happy with Bill Clinton when he was in there. Sure, by comparison to Bush he looks golden. But I remember him. I voted for him in 1992. He wasn't the best president. And some of this heavy hatred between the parties is his fault, and hers too. Fuck that shit. What, she goes in for 8 years, then we get Jeb Bush?

Fuck the Bushes and the Clintons.

The Republicans don't hate Obama the way they hate her. He has a chance to actually get something done instead of just bickering.

And she's a true politician, like others have pointed out. She changes with the wind. She voted to give Bush the power to go INTO Iraq too. Fuck her.

Well said!




(but sorry I'm a McCain guy and he needs all the cash he can get :) )

[JoeE]

He's actually George W. Bush, Part 2. And no matter how blatantly corrupt or apparently stupid Bush is, he still managed to hold on to the White House for 8 years.

Actually, I think Mitt Romney would be a significant improvement over Bush. He's shown himself to be a competent administrator, something that Bush has never done, and half of the stupid shit he says he obviously doesn't believe. I think a President Romney would surprise a lot of people.

Of course, I would never vote for him, because I'm not entirely sure what exactly I'd be voting for and the guy has NO principles, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable with Romney in the White House than Huckabee or Clinton.

[Bill Nolan]

I'm a lifelong Republican who has NEVER donated to a political campaign in my life, and I just happened to see this thread right after I donated some money through Obama's web site. Bought some Obama gear, donated some cash. "If I can do it" and all that jazz... :mistrust:

[McAfee]

Speaking as a citizen of the great state of Illinois, and one more familiar than one really cares to be with the history and political machine of our state government, I will say this is not necessarily a good thing. Democrats, Republicans, Independents, whatever... the one thing that never changes in Illinois politics is the corruption.

Our last governor is just starting to serve his prison term. And all evidence is pointing to a cell waiting for the current governor when his term is over.

As a fellow IL citizen and state government employee, I can say without hesitation that our last 2 governors (including Blowjobovich) both deserve the legal punishments they got/get.

I can also say that I'm not a fan of politics on any level because of the clubhouse antics that seem to constantly prevail, but at the same time I must remind myself that one bad apple, no matter how big, doesn't spoil the whole damn bunch.

[McAfee]

What's wrong with a Clinton dynasty? Better than Ming.

Mung is better than Ming. :)

[Brian Defferding]

It would be like donating to Alien to defeat Predator.

[mario]

sorry, voting for hillary here. Obama lacks experience.

Brand New Day, man!

[Matt Jay]

It would be like donating to Alien to defeat Predator.

Didn't Predator kill Jesse Ventura? :)

[McAfee]

It would be like donating to Alien to defeat Predator.

No way man, cause Predator is totally better than Alien.

[Brian Defferding]

Didn't Predator kill Jesse Ventura? :)

That's true :p

"This stuff will make you a goddamned sexual Tyrannosaurus, just like me!"

[edwardmblake]

Didn't Predator kill Jesse Ventura? :)

Apparently, he did have time to bleed.

[Brian Defferding]

No way man, cause Predator is totally better than Alien.

Don't blame me, I voted for Predator!

And Kodos! :D

[Ryan Elliott]

Man, I'm really starting to pay attention to this stuff, and it's getting me a little excited.


Which is wierd, becuase I really just don't care.


But I might just go vote for Obama when the day comes...

[Kirblar]

Man, I'm really starting to pay attention to this stuff, and it's getting me a little excited.


Which is wierd, becuase I really just don't care.


But I might just go vote for Obama when the day comes...
Where do you live?

Primaries are coming up pretty soon in most states.

In an unrelated note, RealClearPolitics doesn't have a poll for Nevada any newer than one month old. Kinda interested to see what the state of the race appears to be.

[Ryan Elliott]

Where do you live?

Primaries are coming up pretty soon in most states.

In an unrelated note, RealClearPolitics doesn't have a poll for Nevada any newer than one month old. Kinda interested to see what the state of the race appears to be.


Memphis, Tennessee. Sadly.

[Kirblar]

Memphis, Tennessee. Sadly.
Your primary is on Feb 5th, part of "Super Tuesday".

[Ryan Elliott]

Your primary is on Feb 5th, part of "Super Tuesday".


Huh. Cool.


Hey, I might even get out of work for it!


Or is that just for the BIG day?

[Kirblar]

That's just for the big day. Just stop in and vote. You might want to check the local papers to see if you need to be registered to a party to vote.

[Ryan Elliott]

That's just for the big day. Just stop in and vote. You might want to check the local papers to see if you need to be registered to a party to vote.


Okie dokie.


I'll be sure to bring my USB flashdrive and multi-tool, as well. Just incase.

[costello]

Because voting Nader in 2000 really helped the world in a positive way? Had any impact beyond sending Bush to the White House?

It's one thing to vote for a viable third party. It's another to vote in a close election for someone who essentially flushes your vote down the toilet.

I voted for him in a primarily blue state, so it was all good. Gore still got the electoral votes.

[Nick Spencer]

I voted for him in a primarily blue state, so it was all good. Gore still got the electoral votes.

Did you do the vote-swap thing?

[Kirblar]

I think part of this campaign's energy is a reaction to the apathy in 2000/2004 "Oh, they're both the same, it doesn't matter who's elected." People learned the hard way that yeah, it really does matter who becomes President.

[nihilance]

Wouldn't a terrorist attack on U.S. soil suggest that Republican supported means have been ineffective at preventing terrorism, despite the incredible resources used by Bush and his Republican colleges?

Shouldn't Hurricane Katrina have further proved our unpreparedness for such an attack?

[Albert]

Speaking of people looking good for their age, Mitt Romney is pretty studly for a 60-year-old.

[Forrest]

Shouldn't Hurricane Katrina have further proved our unpreparedness for such an attack?

Well, terrorists cannot attack us with a hurricane but I still see your point and agree completely.
E.g. if terrorists bomb levees as part of a complex attack, can we effectively transport large masses of people out of a metropolitan area? Not very well at all.

Can we house and take care of people after a region has been devistated?
:lol:

Can we help an affected city get back on its feet?
:rofl:

[Tyeron]

DEAR GOD i hope Obama becomes the candidate.. then i hope that all the americans who said they voted and didn't (dats me too) will actually go vote this time.. i'm going to register and all that..

course.. if hillary for some reason .. or even edwards gets the candidacy.. i'll just give up.. i hate having to choose between a douche and a turd sandwich. i don't care what puffy says.

[nick maynard]

sorry, voting for hillary here. Obama lacks experience.


Hillary lived in the White House for 8 years. There is no candidate more experienced than she is.

However, I would like to see the country go in a new direction, where Obama wants to take things. He feels fresh to me.

Of course he doesn't have her experience, but is it really necessary?

in a world where bill richardson drops out of the race, democrats saying they care about who has the most experience is 100% bullshit.

14 years in congress, with a focus on foreign relations with north korea and sudan, among other places. he negotiated one-on-one with SADDAM for the release of hostages. an ambassador to the UN, representing us in talks between palestine and israel. secretary of energy, under clinton. harvard professor, researching and writing negotiations with north korea. governor of new mexico. nominated for FOUR NOBEL PEACE PRIZES!

for the record, im voting for obama. but to say you're voting for clinton over obama because of EXPERIENCE is insane. richardson has more experience than edwards, clinton, and obama put together.

[Doc Randy]

in a world where bill richardson drops out of the race, democrats saying they care about who has the most experience is 100% bullshit.

14 years in congress, with a focus on foreign relations with north korea and sudan, among other places. he negotiated one-on-one with SADDAM for the release of hostages. an ambassador to the UN, representing us in talks between palestine and israel. secretary of energy, under clinton. harvard professor, researching and writing negotiations with north korea. governor of new mexico. nominated for FOUR NOBEL PEACE PRIZES!

for the record, im voting for obama. but to say you're voting for clinton over obama because of EXPERIENCE is insane. richardson has more experience than edwards, clinton, and obama put together.

QFT

It is a shame Richardson lacks that charismatic "good on TV" quality that is needed these days.

[Bill Nolan]

I think I'll keep this avatar for a while. Longer than I usually do, anyway...

[Brian Defferding]

I think I'll keep this avatar for a while. Longer than I usually do, anyway...

:(

[The Dyslexicon]

I have to say I hate the electability debates. They are cynical, and ugly. We have too many pundits without every one who steps into the booth pretending to be one. Vote for who you think would be the best president. Then if polled LIE. It is our patriotic duty to makes polls mean as little as possible. Make them less of a crutch for politicians.

[Bill Nolan]

:(

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/wanolan/ButtonGREENbig.jpg

$8. Limited to 1776 pieces in each color variation. Go for it. I might... it's a cool button.

[Brian Defferding]

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/wanolan/ButtonGREENbig.jpg

$8. Limited to 1776 pieces in each color variation. Go for it. I might... it's a cool button.

Oh cool! :o I think I found my new avatar (when I get from work, at least) :D

[Bill Nolan]

Oh cool! :o I think I found my new avatar (when I get from work, at least) :D

Small ones for $6 ea. (http://www.ronpaul2008store.com/servlet/Categories?category=Limited+Ed.+Small+Buttons)
Big buttons for $8 ea. (http://www.ronpaul2008store.com/servlet/Categories?category=Limited+Ed.+Big+Buttons)

Just in case you want to order one. Or pick a different color for your avatar. There's many different colors available. I like the green and "goldenrod" ones.

[RebootedCorpse]

:(

http://swordattheready.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/ron-paul-babies.jpg

[WinterRose]

What's wrong with a Clinton dynasty? Better than Ming.


http://www.movievillains.com/images/ming.jpg
Such impertinence... Klytus... fetch the bore worms.

[Kirblar]

I have to say I hate the electability debates. They are cynical, and ugly. We have too many pundits without every one who steps into the booth pretending to be one. Vote for who you think would be the best president. Then if polled LIE. It is our patriotic duty to makes polls mean as little as possible. Make them less of a crutch for politicians.
With Hillary it's a legitimate concern. If people don't like her, its just not "I don't agree with her policies", its outright hatred.

[Joe Henderson]

I'm going to be volunteering for Obama's campaign. Can't wait.

[KingMob]

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/wanolan/ButtonGREENbig.jpg

$8. Limited to 1776 pieces in each color variation. Go for it. I might... it's a cool button.

I have that shirt only its blue.

[Kirblar]

I have that shirt only its blue.
I think I've seen that all over the place actually....

http://www.corbinkycityguide.com/kfc/kfc.jpg

[WinterRose]

Typing as I read the thread after I did the ming post:

So Obama's young. The voice of 'experience' is vastly underrated. How young was J.F.Kennedy when he took office again? One of the presidents so good he got his face on some of our money?

Honestly, I'd have LIKED to vote for Nader in 2004, but apparently the not so great state of North Carolina felt it necessary not to let me vote for him.

As far as Edwards goes? He doesn't seem to have the cult of personality that either Obama or Hillary have. I'd still like to see him in the white house as Obama's vice president. The two of them could join together against Hillary like some kind of gestalt mega-candidate. That also sets Edwards up as a VP who could run for the oval office when Obama's term is up. That and the VP get's to decide domestic energy policy. The idea of a lawyer who's spent his life going after big corporations overseeing our domestic nuclear and oil corps? That makes my dick hard.

Besides, who's Hillary gonna get for VP? Some douche like Brownback?

And that's another thing. Clinton's pro-censorship stances on the media and gaming industries pretty much rule her out as a viable candidate for me. The crap she, Brownback, Lieberman and the Evangelicals pulled over the GTA 'Hot Coffee' issue was a national fucking embarassment. I imagine other less sexually repressed countries watching the BBC world service and going: "What's the problem again?"

Hunter S. Thompson saw W do coke. And said so in an article or three before he offed himself. HST literally said that he'd have gladly voted for Nixon instead of G.W.Bush. Fucking NIXON. Do you know what a profound social indictment of Bush's character that is that Thompson would have voted for his nemesis instead of W? I mean DAMN. And were it untrue... were it unlikely that Hunter S Thompson could not produce other witnesses and proof as to W's drug abuse in his college years? I imagine the Bushes would have sued the shit out of poor old Duke for slander.

I wasn't aware of Bill Richardson's credentials. Which in and of itself is why he doesn't really deserve my vote. He has to be able to move and inspire people. He has to be able to make himself known above the noise and the punditry. It means playing the game a little, but if you're a good leader, you know how to reach your people's ears and get your message across. Or surround yourself with people who can do that for you. He sounds like a remarkable man, whom I also wouldn't mind seeing in a VP slot. But we need a charismatic leader that can move people from their very very oppressed lethargy and get them mobilized.

Hillary will mobilize and unify the divided opposition. Obama/Edwards or Obama/Richardson might just SPLIT the opposition. Favorable Result: Obama.

PS: Who said I lost in 2000? ^_^

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/WinterRose/SIG%20BANNERS/WInterRose-SecretPresidentSig.jpg

[Brian Defferding]

http://swordattheready.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/ron-paul-babies.jpg

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/paulheart_dees.jpg

[KingMob]

http://www.dailypaul.com/files/images/i-support/big-5-th.gif

[RebootedCorpse]

http://www.dailypaul.com/files/images/i-support/big-5-th.gif

http://www.8mm16mmfilmscollectibles.com/wcfieldsPort1.jpg

[Dave S.]

If a black man beats a white woman, you know he's just going to get harsher jail times. I'm not sure why you're encouraging it.

[The Dyslexicon]

With Hillary it's a legitimate concern. If people don't like her, its just not "I don't agree with her policies", its outright hatred.

Of courses it is legitimate. But the calculus of figuring it out is too complex to fit into these easy predictions. 4 years ago who would have figured the hole swift boat thing.

If everyone is too busy figuring out who they think everyone else will vote for, no one is voting for who they believe in. I stand bye my statement of there being too many pundits and not enough voters.

[jamestolliver]

I'm excited to vote this year. I'm 17 so it will be my first election. I plan on voting for Obama.

[The Dyslexicon]

if i get to vote for Obama for Prez, than it will be the first time i'm voting for someone and not against the other guy

[Fusion]

sorry, voting for hillary here. Obama lacks experience.

Its funny, George Bush SR used the same old, tired ass line with Bill Clinton. I guess he forgot about that.

[Fusion]

I found this clip from yesterdays "Morning Joe" interesting. Not so much for the race discussion, but more for how Chris Matthews nailed the characterization of Hillary's "Rise to Power" at the end.

Video: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/22599455#22572940

[/(. . )/]

Hunter S. Thompson saw W do coke.

so, two writers who have published that the president did coke have committed suicide

[Mark Andrew Smith]

I hate that mentality.

It is undemocratic, uninformed, and unproductive.

I really hate that mentality too. People should be able to vote for who they feel best represents them and their beliefs. Not the closest thing to it or what someone else believes to be close. If they're voting for the other candidate it's probably because they feel that neither of the big ones represent them or their interests or beliefs truly as a person. By making a statement like that you say that their beliefs just don't matter, and blame them for a loss because they stuck strongly to their beliefs and didn't compromise.

[lonesomefool]

I found this clip from yesterdays "Morning Joe" interesting. Not so much for the race discussion, but more for how Chris Matthews nailed the characterization of Hillary's "Rise to Power" at the end.

Video: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/22599455#22572940

What's really sad is all the women on the View, especially Barbra Walters coming to Hillary's defense. Matthews is right, and with the total joke the View is, Barbra Walters has as much credibility as a journalist these days as the people who write and produce Best Week Ever or The Soup (two shows I love). The only reason the Hilldebeast is even a canidate in this race is because of her husband, her experience argument is B.S. IMO. Sorry, I know a lot of people here will disagree with me, BUT, the majority of people who would vote for Hillary is because it would get Bill back into the White House.

[lonesomefool]

sorry, voting for hillary here. Obama lacks experience.

I didnt know being married to the President meant you had experience. Bill Richardson was the only Democrat with experience in the race, and now he is out. All three, Hillary, Obama, and Edwards are all lacking in experience and all three (including Hillary) are now running on the "change" vote.

[lonesomefool]

I really hate that mentality too. People should be able to vote for who they feel best represents them and their beliefs. Not the closest thing to it or what someone else believes to be close. If they're voting for the other candidate it's probably because they feel that neither of the big ones represent them or their interests or beliefs truly as a person. By making a statement like that you say that their beliefs just don't matter, and blame them for a loss because they stuck strongly to their beliefs and didn't compromise.

As tempted as I may be to vote for a third party canidate, for me personally, there is too much to lose with this upcoming election if the wrong person gets into office. If I thought both parties were gonna nominate people who would both do a good job if they won, I would support a third party.

[dEnny!]

A vote for Nader is always a vote for the Republican candidate.

*sniff...so true...SO VERY TRUE. :D It's a beautiful thing.

[dEnny!]

I'm a lifelong Republican who has NEVER donated to a political campaign in my life, and I just happened to see this thread right after I donated some money through Obama's web site. Bought some Obama gear, donated some cash. "If I can do it" and all that jazz... :mistrust:

I'm curious, does Obama's voting record concern you as a Republican?

[Amos Moses]

I'm curious, does Obama's voting record concern you as a Republican?

I'm curious too. You're a very dyed in the wool Republican, right dEnny? What's important to you this election? Any candidate stand out to you?

I'm not being a dick (for once), I'd really like to know what's on the mind of voters such as yourself.











So I can use this knowledge to destroy and enslave you

[Hollingsworth]

I'm a lifelong Republican who has NEVER donated to a political campaign in my life, and I just happened to see this thread right after I donated some money through Obama's web site. Bought some Obama gear, donated some cash. "If I can do it" and all that jazz... :mistrust:

Good. Glad at least someone did. I donated too. I was broke, but as soon as I got paid, I gave him some cash. And I gave it after he lost New Hampshire, so he ain't losing any support on my part.

[Bill Nolan]

I'm curious, does Obama's voting record concern you as a Republican?

If I looked hard enough, every candidate's voting record would concern me in some way. I just believe that politics in this country have been so bitter, ugly, and divisive over the past 15 years that something very different is necessary. Sen. Obama is charismatic, articulate, and seems truly interested in working to make things better for America and Americans.

Yes, his personal positions are what I would term liberal, but national politics is a game of compromise. We have someone so content to take our country to such an out-of-whack extreme in certain ways over the past 6 years, that someone from the other side may be needed for a while to restore some semblance of balance, in regards to our individual liberties and the justice system especially.

Maybe it's hokey. Maybe it's a short-sighted cult-of-personality thing. But, to me, the Senator really does seem to be the only one offering real hope and the potential for change in this election. In a lesser candidate (*cough* Mitt Romney *cough*) they would be meaningless buzzwords, but I don't get that impression from Sen. Obama.

And, really, certain obvious trends point to this not being a good year to be a Republican presidential candidate in the general election. Would I rather have Hillary be the President? Certainly not. And Edwards strikes me as smarmy as Romney. Of all the available candidates, I think Obama offers something different. Something unexpected. And that's not always a bad thing in Washington.

Hope that makes sense... :scared:

[Nick Spencer]

If I looked hard enough, every candidate's voting record would concern me in some way. I just believe that politics in this country have been so bitter, ugly, and divisive over the past 15 years that something very different is necessary. Sen. Obama is charismatic, articulate, and seem truly interested in working to make things better for America and Americans.

Yes, his personal positions are what I would term liberal, but national politics is a game of compromise. We have someone so content to take our country to such an out-of-whack extreme in certain ways over the past 6 years, that someone from the other side may be needed for a while to restore some semblance of balance, in regards to our individual liberties and the justice system especially.

Maybe it's hokey. Maybe it's a short-sighted cult-of-personality thing. But, to me, the Senator really does seem to be the only one offering real hope and the potential for change in this election. In a lesser candidate (*cough* Mitt Romney *cough*) they would be meaningless buzzwords, but I don't get that impression from Sen. Obama.

And, really, certain obvious trends point to this not being a good year to be a Republican presidential candidate in the general election. Would I rather have Hillary be the President? Certainly not. And Edwards strikes me as smarmy as Romney. Of all the available candidates, I think Obama offers something different. Something unexpected. And that's not always a bad thing in Washington.

Hope that makes sense... :scared:

Very, very well said. These are pretty much the same reasons I went for Obama, too.

[JoeE]

Well, from the perspective of an economic conservative (but not a social one), Obama is probably the most palatable of the three viable Democrats. If you listen to his rhetoric, I would say Obama is probably the most economically-literate of the three major Democratic candidates, and while he is still a liberal and wants to address the problems that liberals want to address, his reforms are generally more market-friendly.

I also really like his position on healthcare; he doesn't advocate for universal, mandatory healthcare at any cost like Edwards does, but rather for reducing costs so that the people who want health insurance can afford it. Ironically, that position certainly isn't going to do him any favors among Democrats.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not crazy about Obama's economic plan - I like him for reasons more along the line of what bnolan mentioned - but he sure as hell is preferable to John Edwards.

[WillieLee]

I didnt know being married to the President meant you had experience. Bill Richardson was the only Democrat with experience in the race, and now he is out. All three, Hillary, Obama, and Edwards are all lacking in experience and all three (including Hillary) are now running on the "change" vote.

I didn't know people had forgotten what happened during Bill's presidency.

[Dave S.]

I didn't know people had forgotten what happened during Bill's presidency.

Which part? Hillary failing to fix health care, or Bill giving into the republicans on most of the issues? The only good thing he did was balance the budget, and he himself had little to do with that besides telling people to do it. I don't see how that takes experience.

He was nothing more than a guy who people liked. He was charismatic, and so people remember him fondly. But he wasn't really that good.

[WillieLee]

Which part? Hillary failing to fix health care, or Bill giving into the republicans on most of the issues? The only good thing he did was balance the budget, and he himself had little to do with that besides telling people to do it. I don't see how that takes experience.

He was nothing more than a guy who people liked. He was charismatic, and so people remember him fondly. But he wasn't really that good.

If you examine the first paragraph of your own reply you might discover the answer.

[Kirblar]

He managed to lose full control of the legislative branch after 1 election. It took Bush 3 to lose his party's grip on power. I can easily see the same thing going down with Hillary in office.

[WillieLee]

He managed to lose full control of the legislative branch after 1 election. It took Bush 3 to lose his party's grip on power. I can easily see the same thing going down with Hillary in office.

You mean balancing the budget, leaving a surplus and exiting as a massively popular President?

[Matt Jay]

If you examine the first paragraph of your own reply you might discover the answer.

If you had a point, you would have supported it by now.

[Dave S.]

You mean balancing the budget, leaving a surplus and exiting as a massively popular President?

You mean, something that any president could do if they wanted to and has more to do with your advisers and aides who actually write the budget than experience? The budget part. The popularity just has to do with his 'everyman' charisma.

[WillieLee]

If you had a point, you would have supported it by now.

What's your point?

[WillieLee]

You mean, something that any president could do if they wanted to and has more to do with your advisers and aides who actually write the budget than experience?

So balancing a budget can be done at anytime?

[Hollingsworth]

Step up folks. If you want Obama to win, go donate.

http://www.barackobama.com/

[Bill Nolan]

I spent $60 more right after his amazing South Carolina speech. Might do more after I receive this order, but a lot of stuff is sold out right now...

[Mark Mavro (kryptic6)]

His speech last night knocked me on my ass. He needs to be our next President now more than ever before.

[Fusion]

"We are the ones we have been waiting for". I love that line!

[Joe Henderson]

"We are the ones we have been waiting for". I love that line!

Great line.

I donated money last week (even though I'm currently unemployed), and will no doubt donate some more once the strike's over.

[Bill Nolan]

Yeah, I don't mind buying really over-priced campaign merchandise, but I have this thing against just straight donations. I'm sure both are appreciated, tho'.

[Fusion]

Great line.

I donated money last week (even though I'm currently unemployed), and will no doubt donate some more once the strike's over.

Got a question for you. Is there really a "Black/Brown" divide in the states? Especially LA? I've only now started to hear about this since Nevada started.

[Joe Henderson]

Got a question for you. Is there really a "Black/Brown" divide in the states? Especially LA? I've only now started to hear about this since Nevada started.

As a white dude in LA, I don't see enough of it either way to comment. But from what I understand from friends that do, the divide is much less amongst younger voters, but still exists to a certain extent amongst older people. It's much stronger with older Asians' racism against blacks, but again, the younger it gets, the less so. Again, this is all third hand info from a white dude, so take it for what it's worth. :)

By the way, I'll extend the offer here that I did in the other thread--I turned the "Yes We Can" song into an mp3, so if anyone wants it, feel free to PM me your e-mail.

[Fusion]

As a white dude in LA, I don't see enough of it either way to comment. But from what I understand from friends that do, the divide is much less amongst younger voters, but still exists to a certain extent amongst older people. It's much stronger with older Asians' racism against blacks, but again, the younger it gets, the less so. Again, this is all third hand info from a white dude, so take it for what it's worth. :)

By the way, I'll extend the offer here that I did in the other thread--I turned the "Yes We Can" song into an mp3, so if anyone wants it, feel free to PM me your e-mail.

Cool. I'll PM you right now!

[Mark Mavro (kryptic6)]

Money's tight for me, too, but I laid down $50.

[Foolish Mortal]

Wanna help?

GO donate. Even if it's only $20. Help him get his message out. Stop the Clinton dynasty. Go go go!


Barack Obama 2008 (http://www.barackobama.com/index.php)
If you hadn't used the 'Clinton Dynasty' nonsense, you might have had me.

Boosting your candidate by tearing down their opponent is not what the Obama campaign is supposed to be about isn't it?


he also lacks divisiveness. Every time Hillary talks it's always 'we need to beat those evil Republicans!!' - which only serves to fuel the red-state blue-state divide. In the end the only thing that is going to accomplish is to power up the Republican base in an anti-Hillary movement and lead to them taking back power and continuing the cycle.

Barack is the only candidate who really has the power to bring us all together and break that cycle.
If Obama wins the nomination, he'll go the attack on the Republicans like Clinton would, or any of the other Democrats would.

[Hollingsworth]

If you hadn't used the 'Clinton Dynasty' nonsense, you might have had me.

Boosting your candidate by tearing down their opponent is not what the Obama campaign is supposed to be about isn't it?

Seeing all of your posts defending Clinton, I somehow doubt it.

I don't personally want to see another Clinton president. That's my perspective. I don't work for the Obama campaign.

[PimpSlapStick!]

Wanna help?

GO donate. Even if it's only $20. Help him get his message out. Stop the Clinton dynasty. Go go go!


Barack Obama 2008 (http://www.barackobama.com/index.php)

I've given $60 bucks so far and voluteered at his campaign HQ in Atlanta so I'm doing my part.

[Foolish Mortal]

Seeing all of your posts defending Clinton, I somehow doubt it.

I don't personally want to see another Clinton president. That's my perspective. I don't work for the Obama campaign.
I just want to balance things out. I see everybody in Obama's jock strap, not criticizing anything he does or says, but when Clinton sneezes, she gets accused of trying to fake the sneeze.

I'm not saying you or anyone else needs to “love” Clinton, just be fair.

[PimpSlapStick!]

I just want to balance things out. I see everybody in Obama's jock strap, not criticizing anything he does or says, but when Clinton sneezes, she gets accused of trying to fake the sneeze.

I'm not saying you or anyone else needs to “love” Clinton, just be fair.

I'll give ya that we have been kinda harsh.

So it's all good

[Fusion]

Five reasons Hillary should be worried

Link: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8363.html

Hillary Clinton survived a Super Tuesday scare. But there are five big reasons the former first lady should be spooked by the current trajectory of the campaign.

Longtime Clinton friends say she recognizes the peril in careening between near-death primary night experiences and small-bore victories.

Although the friends did not have details, they believe she may go ahead with the campaign shake-up she had been planning just before her surprise victory in New Hampshire.

Her team is girding for trench warfare, telling reporters that the nomination will not be decided until at least the Pennsylvania primary on April 22, if then.

Clinton aides told reporters on a conference call today that the Democratic Party’s complex delegate allocation rules mean that neither candidate is likely to take a sizable lead in the foreseeable future.

While Clinton’s campaign gloated about having the most total delegates for the cycle so far, her staff nevertheless recognizes that Super Tuesday was no triumph. Here’s why:

1. She lost the delegate derby.

Pure and simple, this is a war to win delegates, one that might not be decided until this summer’s Democratic convention.

And when the smoke cleared this morning, it appeared that Barack Obama had ended up with slightly more delegates in the 22 states.

Obama’s campaign says the senator finished ahead by 14 delegates.

With results still coming in, Clinton’s campaign says the candidates finished within five or six delegates of each other. Either way, Super Tuesday was essentially a draw.

Clinton may still hold the edge overall, but Obama is closing in rapidly.

2. She essentially tied Obama in the popular vote.

Each won just over 7.3 million votes, a level of parity that was unthinkable as recently as a few weeks ago.

At the time, national polls showed Clinton with a commanding lead — in some cases, by 10 points or more. That dominance is now gone.

One reason is that polls and primary results reveal that the more voters get to know Obama, the more they seem to like him.

This is especially troubling for Clinton since the schedule slows dramatically now and a full month will pass before the next big-state showdown.

All of this allows candidates ample time to introduce themselves to voters in each state — which plays to Obama’s core strengths.

3. She lost more states.

Obama carried 14 states, six more than Clinton, and showed appeal in every geographical region.

His win in bellwether Missouri was impressive by nearly every measure, marked by victories among men and women, secular and churchgoing voters, and urban and suburban voters.

4. She lost the January cash war.

Money chases momentum, so Obama crushing’s 2-to-1 fundraising victory last month is revealing.

He raised more than $31 million; Clinton raised less than $14 million. The implication is hard to ignore: Democratic activists and donors are flocking to Obama at a pace that could have a profound effect on the race going forward.

5. The calendar is her enemy.

Now that more than half the states have weighed in, there is a fairly predictable formula for determining who is most likely to win the upcoming contests.

In caucus states, Obama’s organizational strength shines: He has won seven of eight. Up next are three more caucus states, Washington, Nebraska and Maine.

Obama also runs tremendously well in states with large African-American populations, another promising sign since next Tuesday’s three primaries are in the District of Columbia, Maryland and Virginia — all of which have significant percentages of black voters.

Then comes another caucus state, Hawaii, where Obama is viewed as a native son.

The bottom line is that it figures to be another month before Clinton hits a stretch of states — places like Ohio and Pennsylvania — where she will be strongly favored to win.

So it couldn’t be any clearer as to why the supposedly inevitable candidacy is anything but — even when she’s supposedly winning.

[allanpat]

If Obama wins the nomination, he'll go the attack on the Republicans like Clinton would, or any of the other Democrats would.

Of course any nominee will have to show why they should be president as opposed to the competitor. The difference being that Obama focuses on the positives of his campaign, and his version of an 'attack' is pointing out policies and decisions of the other candidate that he believes are wrong.

Hillary on the other hand goes negative and attacks with sound bites and irrelevant topics, like college drug use, whether they have wanted to be president since kindergarten or not, etc...

Obama treats his rivals with respect and manages to come off as above the traditional 'swift boat' dirty campaign tactics.

[allanpat]

I donated $25 today. Not much I know, but every bit helps. I'll probably donate some more soon, especially knowing that Hillary's strapped for cash and Obama's fundraising is giving him an advantage

[PimpSlapStick!]

Thankyou Fusion

[PimpSlapStick!]

Of course any nominee will have to show why they should be president as opposed to the competitor. The difference being that Obama focuses on the positives of his campaign, and his version of an 'attack' is pointing out policies and decisions of the other candidate that he believes are wrong.

Hillary on the other hand goes negative and attacks with sound bites and irrelevant topics, like college drug use, whether they have wanted to be president since kindergarten or not, etc...

Obama treats his rivals with respect and manages to come off as above the traditional 'swift boat' dirty campaign tactics.

Right-on

:cool:

[Foolish Mortal]

Of course any nominee will have to show why they should be president as opposed to the competitor. The difference being that Obama focuses on the positives of his campaign, and his version of an 'attack' is pointing out policies and decisions of the other candidate that he believes are wrong.

Hillary on the other hand goes negative and attacks with sound bites and irrelevant topics, like college drug use, whether they have wanted to be president since kindergarten or not, etc...

Obama treats his rivals with respect and manages to come off as above the traditional 'swift boat' dirty campaign tactics.
Call me pessimistic, but lets see what he does if he wins the nomination.

[Thudpucker]

When Hilary is our Queen you'll all be thanking those of us who helped make it happen. She's going to do a great job.

[PimpSlapStick!]

When Hilary is our Queen you'll all be thanking those of us who helped make it happen. She's going to do a great job.

Im moving to Canada on that day and eat canadian bacon happily

[Albert]

When Hilary is our Queen you'll all be thanking those of us who helped make it happen. She's going to do a great job.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Hannover7909.jpg?

[Nick Spencer]

When Hilary is our Queen you'll all be thanking those of us who helped make it happen. She's going to do a great job.

I predict your state will be the last one to go her way. Take comfort in that, I guess.

[PimpSlapStick!]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Hannover7909.jpg?

heh

highlander

[Fusion]

Im moving to Canada on that day and eat canadian bacon happily

Bring your sister.

[PimpSlapStick!]

Call me pessimistic, but lets see what he does if he wins the nomination.

He'll do what we the black folk have secretly been planning for 40yrs.....























































......House party at the white house! whoop,whoop

[Albert]

......House party at the white house! whoop,whoop

I hope there's lots of stodgy white people hip-hop dancing in a hilariously awkward fashion!

[Fusion]

I hope there's lots of stodgy white people hip-hop dancing in a hilariously awkward fashion!

Again, I've got to point to "HEAD OF STATE" of exactly what we will do when winning the white house.

[PimpSlapStick!]

I hope there's lots of stodgy white people hip-hop dancing in a hilariously awkward fashion!

Oh yes, without a doubt. It's about inclusion that way we can bring us all together with a cook-out.

That's what we need

[JoeE]

I hope there's lots of stodgy white people hip-hop dancing in a hilariously awkward fashion!

Who let the dogs out, huh?

[PimpSlapStick!]

Who let the dogs out, huh?

Mitt did

[Bill Nolan]

This was part of an e-mail I just received from the campaign:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/wanolan/graphic.png

Haha!

[The Dyslexicon]

I was in a moral quandary yesterday. I work with a bunch of mentally disabled people. I took a bunch of them to vote. I am with Obma. Most of them are for Clinton. They are going with a name they recognize.

Here is the thing most of them can’t read. I had to tell them were to fill in the circle. I could given 7 votes to Obma, but I didn’t.

[Nick Spencer]

This was part of an e-mail I just received from the campaign:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/wanolan/graphic.png

Haha!

FUCKING AWESOME.

[Joe Henderson]

This was part of an e-mail I just received from the campaign:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/wanolan/graphic.png

Haha!

Haw! That's awesome.

[PimpSlapStick!]

I was in a moral quandary yesterday. I work with a bunch of mentally disabled people. I took a bunch of them to vote. I am with Obma. Most of them are for Clinton. They are going with a name they recognize.

Here is the thing most of them can’t read. I had to tell them were to fill in the circle. I could given 7 votes to Obma, but I didn’t.

Damn you, damn you to hell! The good lord put you in that position for that very reason, he gave you 7 of God's special children to guide them towards Obama.

I hope you do the right thing next time with the palsy clients, they need someone to push the button for them.
:-x

[PimpSlapStick!]

This was part of an e-mail I just received from the campaign:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g104/wanolan/graphic.png

Haha!

Warms my cold heart

[The Dyslexicon]

Damn you, damn you to hell! The good lord put you in that position for that very reason, he gave you 7 of God's special children to guide them towards Obama.

I hope you do the right thing next time with the palsy clients, they need someone to push the button for them.
:-x

Here I was looking for some validation:)

[PimpSlapStick!]

Here I was looking for some validation:)

C'mon, :blah:

What's my name?

[RebootedCorpse]

I'm 100% behind Obama, but I won't hate on the Clintons.

[Nick Spencer]

I'm 100% behind Obama, but I won't hate on the Clintons.

And we have Scarlett to thank for that.

[The Dyslexicon]

C'mon, :blah:

What's my name?

Mr. Stick?

[PimpSlapStick!]

Mr. Stick?

Sho' ya right

:cool:

[GoddessOKay]

you know, living in the HIGHEST TAXED COUNTY in NEW YORK STATE gives you the right to actually dislike Hillary Clinton.

Especially since this is not NYC we're talking about here, this is backwoods hick country. And she was the one who brokered the deals with Republican Congressmen to bring tax cuts to "new-business" (because they were rich and would bring jobs, and big) but argued against Regan-esque Bush tax cuts for the rich when it came to actual people.

What did this do...it drove up the tax burden of the individual people in the county cause businesses were no longer paying. And she only did this here. She screwed us! Truly. Most of my friends in their late 20's are live 3+ to an apartment at only $400-500 rent, and working 40+ hours a week.

That's just plain stupid. In the mean time. the businesses are outsourcing instead of hiring locals or contracting to existing business instead of hiring new people and training them.

And in the county that my family in Chicago lives in when many of their businesses shut down Obama managed to help pass laws in IL that helped secure training for employees who lost jobs, reiforce the companies who survived so they could expand, and reward the ones who kept jobs in the neighborhoods.

So i'm seeing neighborhoods that were once desolate out their become the new burbs. and here everything is crumbling.

Clinton hasn't taken care of her constituents. Chuck Schumer has. Obama has taken care of his from the time he was a state rep till the point he was a U.S. Senator.

And I CAN argue both sides cause I've seen them BOTH

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm not helping Barack Obama defeat Hillary Clinton.

I'm helping Barack Obama win the Democratic Nomination.

When I cast my delegate's ballot for Obama, it won't be against Clinton, but for the first politician in four election cycles to say something that actually stirred my spirit.

When I caucused for Barack Obama last night, it wasn't in order to deny the nomination to Hillary Clinton. It was to show my support for someone in whom I put my trust.

[Nick Spencer]

I'm not helping Barack Obama defeat Hillary Clinton.

I'm helping Barack Obama win the Democratic Nomination.

When I cast my delegate's ballot for Obama, it won't be against Clinton, but for the first politician in four election cycles to say something that actually stirred my spirit.

When I caucused for Barack Obama last night, it wasn't in order to deny the nomination to Hillary Clinton. It was to show my support for someone in whom I put my trust.

What's fun for me is I get to do both. :)

[GoddessOKay]

I'm not helping Barack Obama defeat Hillary Clinton.

I'm helping Barack Obama win the Democratic Nomination.

When I cast my delegate's ballot for Obama, it won't be against Clinton, but for the first politician in four election cycles to say something that actually stirred my spirit.

When I caucused for Barack Obama last night, it wasn't in order to deny the nomination to Hillary Clinton. It was to show my support for someone in whom I put my trust.

Watching the AK results and reports come in last night was truly interesting. it actually makes me wanna live in a caucus state. Seems like you guys had an interesting time! :o

[RebootedCorpse]

I'm not helping Barack Obama defeat Hillary Clinton.

I'm helping Barack Obama win the Democratic Nomination.

When I cast my delegate's ballot for Obama, it won't be against Clinton, but for the first politician in four election cycles to say something that actually stirred my spirit.

When I caucused for Barack Obama last night, it wasn't in order to deny the nomination to Hillary Clinton. It was to show my support for someone in whom I put my trust.

:thumb:

[Frozen Sooner]

Watching the AK results and reports come in last night was truly interesting. it actually makes me wanna live in a caucus state. Seems like you guys had an interesting time! :o

Heh. I heard several times a variation on the theme "Yeah, this is about right for a Democratic Party event. Nobody seems to be in charge, no organization, but everyone's having a pretty darn good time."

The last numbers I heard were that the party was expecting at most 3500 people and something like 5000 showed up in Anchorage.

In Barrow, the last caucus got 25 people. They got 400 this time. I didn't even know there were 400 people IN Barrow, much less 400 Democrats!

In Wasilla, the fire marshal kicked them out of their original building so they had to make a last-minute call to the high school.

I was so amped up that I couldn't sleep last night and I've been buzzing all day. I've even got that Will.I.Am video downloaded on my iPhone and I've been playing it every few hours.

[Joe Henderson]

I'm not helping Barack Obama defeat Hillary Clinton.

I'm helping Barack Obama win the Democratic Nomination.

When I cast my delegate's ballot for Obama, it won't be against Clinton, but for the first politician in four election cycles to say something that actually stirred my spirit.

When I caucused for Barack Obama last night, it wasn't in order to deny the nomination to Hillary Clinton. It was to show my support for someone in whom I put my trust.

Here, here.

[Hollingsworth]

Bump. If you believe in his campaign, go donate some money to Obama.

http://www.barackobama.com/index.php

[Shane W]

Bump. If you believe in his campaign, go donate some money to Obama.

http://www.barackobama.com/index.php

Already done, and a yard sign is on its way.

[allanpat]

only 2 days post-super tuesday, and Obama's already raised $7.2 Million! Way to go everyone - let's keep it going!

[Hollingsworth]

only 2 days post-super tuesday, and Obama's already raised $7.2 Million! Way to go everyone - let's keep it going!

Hillary is doing well in this regard too, so it's good to keep at it.

[lonesomefool]

Hillary is doing well in this regard too, so it's good to keep at it.

Maybe she will go on TV with Chris Crocker and they can both cry and beg for some money/attention.

:D

[RegularJoe]

Hillary lived in the White House for 8 years. There is no candidate more experienced than she is.

However, I would like to see the country go in a new direction, where Obama wants to take things. He feels fresh to me.

Of course he doesn't have her experience, but is it really necessary?

there's an article/op ed about how mrs. favre should become quarterback after brett leaves...'cause, after all, she LIVED with a great quarterback for how many years. of course she's experienced.

[Foolish Mortal]

there's an article/op ed about how mrs. favre should become quarterback after brett leaves...'cause, after all, she LIVED with a great quarterback for how many years. of course she's experienced.
A horrible analogy.

[Benel Germosen]

A horrible analogy.

Not really.

[Brother Power the Gong]

Hillary was involved in skull sessions and had some say in policy. She even went to Congress to present a health plan. That she was involved is one of the reasons why she garnered so much hate.

I don't think Mrs. Favre broke down that much film or participated in many tire drills or scrimmages. Maybe she can shred a cover 2 … I just don't know.

[Kirblar]

Hillary was involved in skull sessions and had some say in policy. She even went to Congress to present a health plan. That she was involved is one of the reasons why she garnered so much hate.

I don't think Mrs. Favre broke down that much film or participated in many tire drills or scrimmages. Maybe she can shred a cover 2 … I just don't know.
And that health plan went over so well, right?

[Dreg]

Why donate when I can just use the money to buy cigarettes and bribe homeless people into voting for him?

Kidding.

[Brother Power the Gong]

And that health plan went over so well, right?

No, but it seems downright prescient, nowadays. Like Civil Rights in the 40s or ending slavery in the 1840s. Or religious tolerance during the inquisition. Or that the earth is round.

Not comparing the former to the latters, except in that many ideas don't get out of the gate first time around.

[Foolish Mortal]

Not really.
Yes, really.

A better analogy is a wife of the General Manager of the football team. A wife who regularly attends meetings and functions with her husband, getting to know people and learning how the team organization is run on a day-to-day basis and also participates in special jobs for her husband to work deals with players' agents, and to organize team personnel.

She does this for eight years, then the husband retires, then the wife gets a job within the team organization to work under the new GM to do many of the same tasks she did before.

She works that job for seven years, and then word is the current GM is about to step down and then she decides to present an application for GM.

[Brother Power the Gong]

Like Georgia Frontiere …

[Hollingsworth]

Obama may need money. He's been spending heavy. Wanna lend him a hand? He's still got a delegate lead but he needs to close the door on Clinton.

http://www.barackobama.com/index.php

[Mark Mavro (kryptic6)]

there's an article/op ed about how mrs. favre should become quarterback after brett leaves...'cause, after all, she LIVED with a great quarterback for how many years. of course she's experienced.

I just don't think it's fair that we could have two families going in and out of the White House for decades. That to me isn't fair. That to me isn't what the presidency should be all about.

I don't care about her experience. I would rather someone come in and try things differently.

There was a piece on Colbert tonight about how Mccain continues to attack Obama's experience, and then any time someone tries to bring up the past and how we shouldn't have gone into Iraq he simply replies, "That was then. The past was the past. We have to move forward." You can't have it both ways. I fucking hate that mentality. If you don't take the past into account then you're destined to repeat the same mistakes in the future. Had Bush known his history, he wouldn't have repeated the same mistakes creating a hostile situation in the middle-east just like was done in 1979 when the extremists took control of Iran.

EDIT: You know what, just disregard this whole post. I'm basically ranting and no one ever wins these political tirades.