PDA

View Full Version : X-FORCE - Kyle & Yost?? (Spoilers from Feb. Solicits)



dasNdanger
11-20-2007, 04:02 AM
So...I read that X-FORCE is being written by Written by Craig Kyle & Christopher Yost. I know I've read something - somewhere - but one or both of these guys, but I can't recall what. Therefore, I'm not really familiar with what they are capable of...so maybe you guys can help me out.

So...the solicit says, "There are lines that the X-Men have sworn never to cross. But after the shocking events of "Messiah Complex," Cyclops realizes that some enemies need to be dealt with permanently... and the X-Men can never know about it."

So, with Wolverine, Warpath, X-23, and Wolfsbane on the team, I can only assume that this team will be like the X-Men's Black Ops team. This should make the title grittier, darker, and - perhaps - questionable...much like the social/moral/ethical/legal questions raised by Bendis's Ultimate X-Men #41 (Wolverine & boy in the cave).

Now, if Bendis was writing this title, or even past Wolverine writers, like Tieri - or even Daniel Way (he's done some pretty gritty things in Origins), I could imagine this book having a real edge and - perhaps - kicking some real ass. However...

I don't know a thing about Kyle and Yost and what they're capable of...are they writers who avoid the questionable, playing it safe with lots of warm and fuzzies...or are they guys who aren't afraid to push the envelope, perhaps exploring new territory for these characters?

Any insight would be appreciated!!

das

Shade
11-20-2007, 04:04 AM
They've killed over half the cast of New X-Men. They'll do just fine.

Nick Spencer
11-20-2007, 04:07 AM
I'm not at all a fan of this concept, but I am a fan of these writers. I'm gonna give it a few issues... it really doesn't sound like my kind of book, but these guys have definitely put out a lot of good work.

DaveCummings
11-20-2007, 04:18 AM
I kinda dig this concept, it's kind of like the X-Men version of Stormwatch Black.

Akira
11-20-2007, 04:21 AM
So...I read that X-FORCE is being written by Written by Craig Kyle & Christopher Yost. I know I've read something - somewhere - but one or both of these guys, but I can't recall what. Therefore, I'm not really familiar with what they are capable of...so maybe you guys can help me out.

So...the solicit says, "There are lines that the X-Men have sworn never to cross. But after the shocking events of "Messiah Complex," Cyclops realizes that some enemies need to be dealt with permanently... and the X-Men can never know about it."

So, with Wolverine, Warpath, X-23, and Wolfsbane on the team, I can only assume that this team will be like the X-Men's Black Ops team. This should make the title grittier, darker, and - perhaps - questionable...much like the social/moral/ethical/legal questions raised by Bendis's Ultimate X-Men #41 (Wolverine & boy in the cave).

Now, if Bendis was writing this title, or even past Wolverine writers, like Tieri - or even Daniel Way (he's done some pretty gritty things in Origins), I could imagine this book having a real edge and - perhaps - kicking some real ass. However...

I don't know a thing about Kyle and Yost and what they're capable of...are they writers who avoid the questionable, playing it safe with lots of warm and fuzzies...or are they guys who aren't afraid to push the envelope, perhaps exploring new territory for these characters?

Any insight would be appreciated!!

das

Ironicly Kyle and Yost write New X-Men, the book that your previous "freaking unicorns!" sig came from :). I started reading the trades of New X-Men this past summer. It's actually a damn good book. I've added it too my pull since Endangered Species and havent regreted it once. They should do fine.

dasNdanger
11-20-2007, 04:22 AM
They've killed over half the cast of New X-Men. They'll do just fine.

Ah!! NEW X-Men...that's where I've seen them!! Yeah - they're pretty good...do a good job (as far as I can tell thus far) with Wolverine...which is, of course, most important to me. :D

das

Thudpucker
11-20-2007, 04:25 AM
I kinda dig this concept, it's kind of like the X-Men version of Stormwatch Black.

I don't like the all claws and knives theme. In particular I hate Wolfsbane being picked for it, apparently only because she has claws. The others are killers but since when does Rahne fit in with them?

dasNdanger
11-20-2007, 04:27 AM
Ironicly Kyle and Yost write New X-Men, the book that your previous "freaking unicorns!" sig came from :). I started reading the trades of New X-Men this past summer. It's actually a damn good book. I've added it too my pull since Endangered Species and havent regreted it once. They should do fine.

Yeah, I just figgered that out. :p I KNEW I saw the names...somewhere... LOL...seems I still don't pay rapt attention to those names on the cover.... :p

das

dasNdanger
11-20-2007, 04:31 AM
I don't like the all claws and knives theme. In particular I hate Wolfsbane being picked for it, apparently only because she has claws. The others are killers but since when does Rahne fit in with them?

I have a suspicion that this 'feral' team (well, except for Warpath, but he kinda fits) might face Romulus as their arch enemy, since he's like the Lord of the Ferals, or something. It WOULD help establish the guy as the newest bad boy on the block, esp. since we've only seen reference to him briefly in Wolverine's two titles.


das

Shade
11-20-2007, 04:33 AM
I have a suspicion that this 'feral' team (well, except for Warpath, but he kinda fits) might face Romulus as their arch enemy, since he's like the Lord of the Ferals, or something. It WOULD help establish the guy as the newest bad boy on the block, esp. since we've only seen reference to him briefly in Wolverine's two titles.


das


I hope not. I'd rather see that storyline stay in the Wolverine books. I'm kinda hoping for this to be the Punishers of the X-universe.

Akira
11-20-2007, 04:36 AM
I don't like the all claws and knives theme. In particular I hate Wolfsbane being picked for it, apparently only because she has claws. The others are killers but since when does Rahne fit in with them?

Have you been reading X-Factor since the re-boot? She's been letting the fur and claws fly pretty freely recently.

Doug
11-20-2007, 04:42 AM
I don't like the all claws and knives theme. In particular I hate Wolfsbane being picked for it, apparently only because she has claws. The others are killers but since when does Rahne fit in with them?

I'm in agreement with Thud. Maybe something happens in MC, but she isn't a cold blooded killer.

NickT
11-20-2007, 04:43 AM
I love the concept, the team is interesting. My only real concern is that since it's Kyle/Yost, I sortof expect lots of existing characters to be killed off.

NickT
11-20-2007, 04:44 AM
I'm in agreement with Thud. Maybe something happens in MC, but she isn't a cold blooded killer.
So you're saying there is a character on the team who may cause tensions? Sounds like a damn good reason for her to be on the team. Like how you have "good" people like Songbird and Radioactive Man on a team with people like Venom or Bullseye.

Doug
11-20-2007, 04:54 AM
So you're saying there is a character on the team who may cause tensions? Sounds like a damn good reason for her to be on the team. Like how you have "good" people like Songbird and Radioactive Man on a team with people like Venom or Bullseye.

It is possible. I'm not going to pre-judge the book, but I don't see Rahne as a killer like the other characters.

Also to be fair chances are I'm not going to be picking up the book. I'm not a fan of Crain's art, and I already buy too many books as it is.

smm EBob
11-20-2007, 05:00 AM
im loving everything about this. bring it on!

Thomas Mauer
11-20-2007, 05:19 AM
So...I read that X-FORCE is being written by Written by Craig Kyle & Christopher Yost. I know I've read something - somewhere - but one or both of these guys, but I can't recall what. Therefore, I'm not really familiar with what they are capable of...so maybe you guys can help me out.

So...the solicit says, "There are lines that the X-Men have sworn never to cross. But after the shocking events of "Messiah Complex," Cyclops realizes that some enemies need to be dealt with permanently... and the X-Men can never know about it."

So, with Wolverine, Warpath, X-23, and Wolfsbane on the team, I can only assume that this team will be like the X-Men's Black Ops team. This should make the title grittier, darker, and - perhaps - questionable...much like the social/moral/ethical/legal questions raised by Bendis's Ultimate X-Men #41 (Wolverine & boy in the cave).

Now, if Bendis was writing this title, or even past Wolverine writers, like Tieri - or even Daniel Way (he's done some pretty gritty things in Origins), I could imagine this book having a real edge and - perhaps - kicking some real ass. However...

I don't know a thing about Kyle and Yost and what they're capable of...are they writers who avoid the questionable, playing it safe with lots of warm and fuzzies...or are they guys who aren't afraid to push the envelope, perhaps exploring new territory for these characters?

Any insight would be appreciated!!

das
Das, das, das... :no:

They wrote X-23, X-23: Target X, and they currently write New X-Men! Real stakes, blood and death. These two know how to keep you entertained and give Wolverine his balls back! :D

smm EBob
11-20-2007, 05:26 AM
he knew this like 10 posts ago silly :-) you are late

Thudpucker
11-20-2007, 05:26 AM
Have you been reading X-Factor since the re-boot? She's been letting the fur and claws fly pretty freely recently.

She transforms and scares people but I've never seen her seriously hurt or murder anyone. I've only read the first 3 trades though, has she murdered someone recently?

Thudpucker
11-20-2007, 05:31 AM
So you're saying there is a character on the team who may cause tensions? Sounds like a damn good reason for her to be on the team. Like how you have "good" people like Songbird and Radioactive Man on a team with people like Venom or Bullseye.

Rahne is not the kind of character who would stand by while her teammates murder people. She was always a very shy and gentle kid and as an adult she is a hero, she does not kill. At least she never has. If Kyle and Yost are going to turn her into a willing participant in murder (even if it's just standing by and watching other people murder) that really sucks.

Not saying they will for sure, we don't know yet. It looks like this team will kill people though.

Magnum V.I.
11-20-2007, 06:10 AM
She transforms and scares people but I've never seen her seriously hurt or murder anyone. I've only read the first 3 trades though, has she murdered someone recently?

But we have no idea what will happen during Messiah Complex. Maybe she gets captured and really fucked up? Or maybe she watches as Rictor gets brutally murdered in front of her.

Something major might happen in her life during this cross over that might have her realize that certain things must be done.

NickT
11-20-2007, 06:26 AM
She transforms and scares people but I've never seen her seriously hurt or murder anyone. I've only read the first 3 trades though, has she murdered someone recently?
She killed Madrox and Layla on their wedding night. Obviously future scenes mean fuck all, but it still indicates a direction.

Jef UK
11-20-2007, 06:33 AM
In particular I hate Wolfsbane being picked for it, apparently only because she has claws. The others are killers but since when does Rahne fit in with them?

She's becoming more and more violent in X-Factor; it's been a theme since the beginning of the new launch. I would guess something important happens in Messiah Complex that pushes her over the edge. Or perhaps she's the voice of morality on the team. This is just a solicit blurb, after all.

Thudpucker
11-20-2007, 06:39 AM
But we have no idea what will happen during Messiah Complex. Maybe she gets captured and really fucked up? Or maybe she watches as Rictor gets brutally murdered in front of her.

Something major might happen in her life during this cross over that might have her realize that certain things must be done.


She killed Madrox and Layla on their wedding night. Obviously future scenes mean fuck all, but it still indicates a direction.


She's becoming more and more violent in X-Factor; it's been a theme since the beginning of the new launch. I would guess something important happens in Messiah Complex that pushes her over the edge. Or perhaps she's the voice of morality on the team. This is just a solicit blurb, after all.

Yes, she could always go thru a major personality change in the upcoming event and become a murderer. What I'm saying is I think that would be a shame, I don't like it. Even if she became the 'voice of morality' for a team of murderers that would be a big personality change for her that I personally don't care for.

It is an advance solicit, we don't know what the morality of the team will really be. Maybe they are really a black op team that gives out hugs and flowers instead of death?

Jef UK
11-20-2007, 06:57 AM
Maybe they are really a black op team that gives out hugs and flowers instead of death?

:)

Maybe they're a team devoted to "taking care of" Scott Summer's jilted lovers?

NewChad
11-20-2007, 07:00 AM
Sadly, i'm not interested in this title at all - EXCEPT - i'll buy it for the Charest variant. Greatest artist around!

dasNdanger
11-20-2007, 07:46 AM
Das, das, das... :no:

They wrote X-23, X-23: Target X, and they currently write New X-Men! Real stakes, blood and death. These two know how to keep you entertained and give Wolverine his balls back! :D

Ah, they wrote Target X, too....I really, REALLY need to check those credits more often.... :p and yeah, I suspect they'll give Wolverine his balls back, and make 'em even BIGGER. Loved the fight between X-23 and Wolverine in Target X - he won the fight because he met his objective - to reason with her and help her. She lost the fight because she failed in her objective, which was to kill Wolverine. Lots of Wolverine fans whined about Wolverine getting bested by a girl - again - but I saw it as a true victory, and I liked the fact that the writers decided to give Wolverine some smarts in handling the situation. Hell, he'll never be the brightest bulb on the tree, but at least he knows how to read people and persuade them to make the right choices.

Hmmm... When he retires, he should probably go into psychology....


he knew this like 10 posts ago silly :-) you are late

SHE...SHE knew this 10 posts ago.... ;-)


Rahne is not the kind of character who would stand by while her teammates murder people. She was always a very shy and gentle kid and as an adult she is a hero, she does not kill. At least she never has. If Kyle and Yost are going to turn her into a willing participant in murder (even if it's just standing by and watching other people murder) that really sucks.

Not saying they will for sure, we don't know yet. It looks like this team will kill people though.

I have crap for a memory...help me out here. Did Rahne kill anyone in Rahne of Terra? I can't remember what happened at the end....

I can certainly see her as someone who WILL kill, but only as a last resort. There has to be someone on the team who will try to find another way, and I doubt that honor will fall on X-23 or Wolverine. So, I can imagine that she might be the one to say, 'Hey guys...wait...maybe we don't have to kill this one..." I know very little about Warpath, but since I kinda-sorta have this *thing* for Native Americans, I'm excited about finally reading a book he's in. Besides, he's kinda hot... :heybaby:


das

dasNdanger
11-20-2007, 07:52 AM
It is an advance solicit, we don't know what the morality of the team will really be. Maybe they are really a black op team that gives out hugs and flowers instead of death?


Now THERE'S something Wolverine & Co. certainly won't want the other X-Men knowing, that's for sure.... :scared:


das

Thomas Mauer
11-20-2007, 07:52 AM
he knew this like 10 posts ago silly :-) you are late

And I have the fake award to prove it!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/seeker-of-souls/Fake37.png

dasNdanger
11-20-2007, 07:56 AM
(btw, das is a lady. :p)

I might be female, but I've never been much of a lady... :p :p

QUESTION:

Who did Kyle & Yost kill off in New X-Men? I've only read two issues, I think...maybe another odd one here or there. But the last two I read. However, I'm not that familiar with the characters, so I have no idea who all died. I know of one...or two...just don't remember their names, or their importance in Marvelverse.


das

Thomas Mauer
11-20-2007, 08:01 AM
I might be female, but I've never been much of a lady... :p :p

QUESTION:

Who did Kyle & Yost kill off in New X-Men? I've only read two issues, I think...maybe another odd one here or there. But the last two I read. However, I'm not that familiar with the characters, so I have no idea who all died. I know of one...or two...just don't remember their names, or their importance in Marvelverse.


das
Cannonball's little brother with the wings was the first to die. Gruesome bloodloss because of severed wings at the hands of Reverend Stryker's boys.

The majority of the kids were depowered. Some died depowered because of the Stryker attack before they were shipped back home.

I haven't read past Mercury Rising, so can't tell who else kicked the bucket.

MabusRex
11-20-2007, 08:18 AM
They've killed:

Students:
Wallflower
Icarus (he survived the wing-amputation. He died from a gunshot to the chest from Stryker)
Quill
And 45 (?) of the depowered students such as Tag from the Hellions

Others:
Mammomax

Not many other than that, though they've caused plenty of physical harm to their student cast in NXM.

Especially that Yost guy. He's sick... :D

dasNdanger
11-20-2007, 08:21 AM
They've killed:

Students:
Wallflower
Icarus (he survived the wing-amputation. He died from a gunshot to the chest from Stryker)
Quill
And 45 (?) of the depowered students such as Tag from the Hellions

Others:
Mammomax

Not many other than that, though they've caused plenty of physical harm to their student cast in NXM.
So, they haven't killed off top players. It seems - to me - that Marvel continues to thin out the dead mutant wood, perhaps to make way for some new characters. At least, that's what I hope.

Especially that Yost guy. He's sick... :D

Oh...great. If sicko Bendis blew Wolverine's penis off, what in the world will Yost do to him???! :scared:


das

Chris Yost
11-20-2007, 08:25 AM
Ah, yes... those were heady days. Bus explosions... snipers... home invasions...

XF is going to surprise a lot of people, I think, mid-issue one. End of issue 2 is even insaner. And then it gets REALLY fucked up.

Wolfsbane is NOT a murderer, doesn't belong on the team, and would not stand by and watch a teammate commit cold-blooded murder.

Crain's pages are SICK. When everything goes down in issue one, I literally gasped when I turned the page. And I knew what was coming. But to see it was just crazy.

Anyone who liked X-23 and Target X I think are really going to enjoy this.

And anyone who loves the wider X-universe in general are going to want to pick this up. Big things are happening.

ThisSpaceForRent
11-20-2007, 08:27 AM
I have a suspicion that this 'feral' team (well, except for Warpath, but he kinda fits) might face Romulus as their arch enemy, since he's like the Lord of the Ferals, or something. It WOULD help establish the guy as the newest bad boy on the block, esp. since we've only seen reference to him briefly in Wolverine's two titles.


das

Please, please, please.....leave that Romulus abortion of a storyline to die. Holy shit, that was some awful Wolverine storytelling...

dasNdanger
11-20-2007, 08:28 AM
Ah, yes... those were heady days. Bus explosions... snipers... home invasions...

XF is going to surprise a lot of people, I think, mid-issue one. End of issue 2 is even insaner. And then it gets REALLY fucked up.

Wolfsbane is NOT a murderer, doesn't belong on the team, and would not stand by and watch a teammate commit cold-blooded murder.

Crain's pages are SICK. When everything goes down in issue one, I literally gasped when I turned the page. And I knew what was coming. But to see it was just crazy.

Anyone who liked X-23 and Target X I think are really going to enjoy this.

And anyone who loves the wider X-universe in general are going to want to pick this up. Big things are happening.

Can you give me...the only person still alive (it seems) who still cares about Wolverine's CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT, any hints as to how you're going to handle him? Please, please, please give him some much needed depth!!

And some balls. :p


das

Masculine Todd
11-20-2007, 08:44 AM
I don't know a thing about Kyle and Yost and what they're capable of...are they writers who avoid the questionable, playing it safe with lots of warm and fuzzies...or are they guys who aren't afraid to push the envelope, perhaps exploring new territory for these characters?

Any insight would be appreciated!!

das

Good writers can explore various facets of the human experience. I've only read the first two X-23 minis and their work on New X-Men, but Yost and Kyle have proven to be a great writing team and I have much confidence in them.

NickT
11-20-2007, 08:48 AM
So, they haven't killed off top players. It seems - to me - that Marvel continues to thin out the dead mutant wood, perhaps to make way for some new characters. At least, that's what I hope.

dead wood, or the next A-Lister with a good push? Bendis has made Avengers out of Echo, Sentry, Spider-Woman, Luke Cage, Ares......they would be cannon fodder if he hadn't. I wish more writers would consider this before killing someone off to show how cool their one-arc villain is. Kevin Smith needed to do that in Green Arrow, he created characters to kill. Why not do that?

dasNdanger
11-20-2007, 08:53 AM
Good writers can explore various facets of the human experience. I've only read the first two X-23 minis and their work on New X-Men, but Yost and Kyle have proven to be a great writing team and I have much confidence in them.

(shhhh, Todd...just between us...I was just doin' my obsessive Wolverine fan shtick...ya know...to prove myself worthy of this dang award. )

Yeah - having read Target X and the latest New X-Men, I have full faith in these two...now that I know what they've done. :thumb:

das

Jef UK
11-20-2007, 08:55 AM
Those moments that gives Wolverine some depth, seem to me to be the same moments you claim remove his balls, DAS.

dasNdanger
11-20-2007, 09:02 AM
dead wood, or the next A-Lister with a good push? Bendis has made Avengers out of Echo, Sentry, Spider-Woman, Luke Cage, Ares......they would be cannon fodder if he hadn't. I wish more writers would consider this before killing someone off to show how cool their one-arc villain is. Kevin Smith needed to do that in Green Arrow, he created characters to kill. Why not do that?


Okay - I do agree here. I'm not a BIG fan of killing off characters who could be developed further...but these mutants are pesky. Some are just crazy-looking...and I wonder how they go over with the younger generation...with people who want more 'realism'. Others have redundant abilities (I know, I know - Wolverine & Co. But it would never have been my decision to create 35,924,182 Wolverine clones, just because he 'sells').

What I think IS possible is this...after really culling the herd, and leaving only a handful of original, well-established mutants...start allowing this new generation of writers a chance to create some original characters - characters WITHOUT established personas and characteristics - so they can be taken in new directions never considered before. That's hard to do when you're using a character created by someone else, a long time ago.

Of course, it sounds like some of those killed off could have been newer characters, I really don't know. But I do kinda like a simpler line-up, 'cause, honestly, the mutants confuse the heck out of me, esp. since I'm reading the older, pre-Genosha, pre-House of M books. I can't just keep track of all these bloody freaks....

das

dasNdanger
11-20-2007, 09:18 AM
Those moments that gives Wolverine some depth, seem to me to be the same moments you claim remove his balls, DAS.

Oh, no, no, no. :nonono2:

Balls come in all shapes and sizes. Like I said earlier in this thread, Kyle and Yost did an excellent job with the fight scene in Target X between Wolverine and the kid. She wanted to kill him - she failed. He wanted to reason with her - he succeeded. In that scene there was true character development for Wolverine because it showed that he's not all claws, but that he knows a bit about human nature, and sometimes his mouth is more effective than his brawn. He never once looked like a fool in that scene - instead, he was the one in control, the one in charge. Very cool...and cool = balls.

Jason Aaron's Wolverine #56 is another fine example. Wolverine used his mouth as a weapon. Never once did he look wimpy or silly or stupid. He was coolness personified in that book, with some of the best development I've seen for the character in a while. He was cool, and never once did I doubt he had his balls intact.

I know I pick on Bendis (just for fun, of course) - but we know the guy's very capable of writing Wolverine with both depth, and balls. Ultimate X-Men #41 is a perfect example. Extremely well-done, so much so that that story still has me raising all sorts of ethical questions in my mind. Never once was Wolverine a silly ass, making bad jokes and getting beaten up by old ladies - nah, he had his balls alright. And on top of it he was cold without being totally unfeeling (thus the beer), but it didn't prevent him from carrying out his mission. That issue really helped define the sort of guy Ultimate Wolverine is. Pretty much a nasty guy, but once in a while there's a glimmer of humanity that shines through, even if that glimmer comes in the form of a 6-pack.

Yeah - character development and a good set of balls go hand-in-hand, in my humble.


das

Jef UK
11-20-2007, 09:34 AM
Well, if there's several recent stories that show off his balls and his depth, why are you so worried about the lack of stories that show off his balls and depth?

Balls.

dasNdanger
11-20-2007, 09:52 AM
Well, if there's several recent stories that show off his balls and his depth, why are you so worried about the lack of stories that show off his balls and depth?

Balls.

1. Because for every one good Wolverine moment, there are 6 or 7 cheesy ones. TOO many cameos where he does nothing other than get his ass whupped, or say or do something obnoxious. Bendis did this in the one NA arc (forget which one), where all Wolverine did in the entire arc was drink out of a milk carton, and burp. Yeah, it was funny...but around that time there were too many moments like that, where Wolverine was basically there to laugh at, and not with.

2. Wolverine and Wolverine Origins are okay - writers usually handle the character well in his solo books (though he did have a wimpy run in Origins when he met his son for the first time - but all is forgiven considering the circumstances). No, my main problem is when he makes those aforementioned cameos in other books, OR...when he's with the X-Men. I've noticed a definite toning down of his character in many X-stories, while newer characters like X-23 have taken over the role as 'resident bad ass', while Wolverine's now like the creepy ol' beer-guzzlin' uncle who sleeps on the couch in his boxers...scratching things he shouldn't in mixed company. There was a point where he was starting to get like that even in Astonishing, but then Whedon pulled out of that nosedive, and gave the guy his 'cool' back.

3. I have a reputation to uphold now... *see award* You ALL are gonna rue the day you voted for me... I even TRIED to give it back...but alas, the forum wouldn't hear of it. Now you all have to pay the price... :D




das

Thomas Mauer
11-20-2007, 09:52 AM
Ah, yes... those were heady days. Bus explosions... snipers... home invasions...

XF is going to surprise a lot of people, I think, mid-issue one. End of issue 2 is even insaner. And then it gets REALLY fucked up.

Wolfsbane is NOT a murderer, doesn't belong on the team, and would not stand by and watch a teammate commit cold-blooded murder.

Crain's pages are SICK. When everything goes down in issue one, I literally gasped when I turned the page. And I knew what was coming. But to see it was just crazy.

Anyone who liked X-23 and Target X I think are really going to enjoy this.

And anyone who loves the wider X-universe in general are going to want to pick this up. Big things are happening.

Your tease posts have improved a hell of a lot since you started posting here, Chris! :rock:

Magnum V.I.
11-20-2007, 10:23 AM
Cannonball's little brother with the wings was the first to die. Gruesome bloodloss because of severed wings at the hands of Reverend Stryker's boys.

The majority of the kids were depowered. Some died depowered because of the Stryker attack before they were shipped back home.

I haven't read past Mercury Rising, so can't tell who else kicked the bucket.

Jay Guthrie died by not having the most useful mutant power. Bullet proof Face! and I like to think that Nimrod Sodomized his dead body afterwards.

cmoney
11-20-2007, 10:32 AM
Ah, yes... those were heady days. Bus explosions... snipers... home invasions...

XF is going to surprise a lot of people, I think, mid-issue one. End of issue 2 is even insaner. And then it gets REALLY fucked up.

Wolfsbane is NOT a murderer, doesn't belong on the team, and would not stand by and watch a teammate commit cold-blooded murder.

Crain's pages are SICK. When everything goes down in issue one, I literally gasped when I turned the page. And I knew what was coming. But to see it was just crazy.

Anyone who liked X-23 and Target X I think are really going to enjoy this.

And anyone who loves the wider X-universe in general are going to want to pick this up. Big things are happening.

Sold. 'Course, I already was.

Thomas Mauer
11-20-2007, 10:34 AM
Jay Guthrie died by not having the most useful mutant power. Bullet proof Face! and I like to think that Nimrod Sodomized his dead body afterwards.

Geez, you're more cold-hearted than I! :o

Magnum V.I.
11-20-2007, 10:35 AM
Geez, you're more cold-hearted than I! :o

:lol: I just hated Jay Guthrie with a Passion. Ever since Austen wrote him I hated him. You should hear about my space epic that me and Howlett are doing. It involves like 7 volumes of comics that show nothing but Jay Guthries dead body floating and rotting in space.

Dreg
11-20-2007, 10:42 AM
Those moments that gives Wolverine some depth, seem to me to be the same moments you claim remove his balls, DAS.

Explain to me how the literal removal of his balls by a third-tier villain is anything other than both the literal and metaphorical neutering of the character. And his jobbing to Spider-woman was just that. Intended to amp up Bendis' fanboy fantasy, nothing more. If being used as a punching bag by obscure and underpowered heroes gave Wolvie more depth, he'd be a fuzzy freaking Hamlet by now.

dasNdanger
11-20-2007, 10:46 AM
But in X:23 target, they robbed Wolvie of his balls even before Bendis thought to do it literally.

No, no they didn't. Quote from my post above: "Balls come in all shapes and sizes. Like I said earlier in this thread, Kyle and Yost did an excellent job with the fight scene in Target X between Wolverine and the kid. She wanted to kill him - she failed. He wanted to reason with her - he succeeded. In that scene there was true character development for Wolverine because it showed that he's not all claws, but that he knows a bit about human nature, and sometimes his mouth is more effective than his brawn. He never once looked like a fool in that scene - instead, he was the one in control, the one in charge. Very cool...and cool = balls."

I came to that conclusion after a re-read...it was actually a pretty strong Wolverine moment, IMHO....

das

Dreg
11-20-2007, 10:57 AM
No, no they didn't. Quote from my post above: "Balls come in all shapes and sizes. Like I said earlier in this thread, Kyle and Yost did an excellent job with the fight scene in Target X between Wolverine and the kid. She wanted to kill him - she failed. He wanted to reason with her - he succeeded. In that scene there was true character development for Wolverine because it showed that he's not all claws, but that he knows a bit about human nature, and sometimes his mouth is more effective than his brawn. He never once looked like a fool in that scene - instead, he was the one in control, the one in charge. Very cool...and cool = balls."

I came to that conclusion after a re-read...it was actually a pretty strong Wolverine moment, IMHO....

das

If that was the intention, the writers could have done it better than ending the fight with X-23 standing over a defeated Wolverine with her claws at his throat. That's all I'm saying. He could have gotten some offense in. He could have never started fighting at all. He could have even sheathed his claws at any time and gave that speech, but as is usually the case, the writers deemed it necessary to use Wolves as a stepping stone to pump up an obscure character, as Marvel has done several times in the past, and as they'll no doubt do in the next issue of Penance. Look for that rant in days to come. I agree with your assessment in theory, but I think that Wolverine could have come out looking a lot better than he did. Especially given the fact that he so rarely looks good in a fight anymore.

What I can't understand is why the hell writers can't let superheroes be themselves. The Hulk is a super strong but dull-witted giant. Spider-man is an optimistic, if put-upon idealist. Wolverine is a guy with a troubled past who is VERY GOOD AT FIGHTING. Take away the skill, and it's just not Wolverine anymore. It's electric blue Superman or teenaged Tony Stark, or Beta-Ray Bill.

Thudpucker
11-20-2007, 10:59 AM
Wolfsbane is NOT a murderer, doesn't belong on the team, and would not stand by and watch a teammate commit cold-blooded murder.

Thank you! This makes me feel much better :)

Dreg
11-20-2007, 11:04 AM
Oh, Yost is on? Yeah...sorry about the venting. It's really nothing specific about X-23 Target that gets under my skin, it's the culmination of a lot of aggravation I'm experiencing with the character, as several people can attest. I have read the trade, and other than the Wolverine getting hosed scene, I liked a lot of it. It's not the writing, it's just the big picture with a character that's a little too close to my heart. And I should also note that I'm frequently the exception to the rule of general opinion.

dasNdanger
11-20-2007, 01:14 PM
If that was the intention, the writers could have done it better than ending the fight with X-23 standing over a defeated Wolverine with her claws at his throat. That's all I'm saying. He could have gotten some offense in. He could have never started fighting at all. He could have even sheathed his claws at any time and gave that speech, but as is usually the case, the writers deemed it necessary to use Wolves as a stepping stone to pump up an obscure character, as Marvel has done several times in the past, and as they'll no doubt do in the next issue of Penance. Look for that rant in days to come. I agree with your assessment in theory, but I think that Wolverine could have come out looking a lot better than he did. Especially given the fact that he so rarely looks good in a fight anymore.

What I can't understand is why the hell writers can't let superheroes be themselves. The Hulk is a super strong but dull-witted giant. Spider-man is an optimistic, if put-upon idealist. Wolverine is a guy with a troubled past who is VERY GOOD AT FIGHTING. Take away the skill, and it's just not Wolverine anymore. It's electric blue Superman or teenaged Tony Stark, or Beta-Ray Bill.

Well, he looked good in the latest Astonishing fight...real good...up to the part where he was captured (I know - part of the plan!). I'm not sure what to expect from Penance - I REALLY like this book, and liking the character, too. I'm just hoping that Wolverine does something meaningful in this book, besides fight and lose. But...if he does just fight and lose, it'll be a good example of what we're talking about.


Oh, Yost is on? Yeah...sorry about the venting. It's really nothing specific about X-23 Target that gets under my skin, it's the culmination of a lot of aggravation I'm experiencing with the character, as several people can attest. I have read the trade, and other than the Wolverine getting hosed scene, I liked a lot of it. It's not the writing, it's just the big picture with a character that's a little too close to my heart. And I should also note that I'm frequently the exception to the rule of general opinion.

Whew! That was the quickest back-pedal I've ever seen!!! ;-)


das

GrandeMaestro F√ľnke
11-20-2007, 01:30 PM
Ah, yes... those were heady days. Bus explosions... snipers... home invasions...

XF is going to surprise a lot of people, I think, mid-issue one. End of issue 2 is even insaner. And then it gets REALLY fucked up.

Wolfsbane is NOT a murderer, doesn't belong on the team, and would not stand by and watch a teammate commit cold-blooded murder.

Crain's pages are SICK. When everything goes down in issue one, I literally gasped when I turned the page. And I knew what was coming. But to see it was just crazy.

Anyone who liked X-23 and Target X I think are really going to enjoy this.

And anyone who loves the wider X-universe in general are going to want to pick this up. Big things are happening.

Any chance you'll be working with Skottie Young again soon? I recently picked up all your issues with him on New X-Men and absloutely loved it. Easily the best part of the series for me.

dasNdanger
11-21-2007, 04:48 AM
Any chance you'll be working with Skottie Young again soon? I recently picked up all your issues with him on New X-Men and absloutely loved it. Easily the best part of the series for me.

Ya mean this guy?:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/dasNdanger/unicorns.jpg

I LOVED the art in those books. Young did an excellent job. Something light and whimsical about it, but not to the point of diluting the effect of the more serious scenes. Damn good stuff! And that picture ^^^...makes me laugh everytime I see it... :lol:

das

Dreg
12-04-2007, 12:23 PM
Whew! That was the quickest back-pedal I've ever seen!!! ;-)


das

It wasn't a back-pedal. It was more...changing gears. Sometimes I get too caught up in fictional characters for my own good.

dasNdanger
12-04-2007, 01:42 PM
It wasn't a back-pedal. It was more...changing gears. Sometimes I get too caught up in fictional characters for my own good.

:heart:

You and me, we should start our own little club... HERE. Drive everyone else nuts.

:D


das

UltimateFactor
12-04-2007, 02:03 PM
I could have sworn I saw some art that puts Caliban and Hepzibah on this team too....:shifty: