Fraction's Spider-Man In Punisher War Journal...

[Nick_Ardill]

Was awesome. Exactly how he should be written. Someone remind me if he's writing Amazing in a few months.

[Ray G.]

He's not. Unfortunately.

[Brad N.]

Nope, and that truly sucks. His Sensational Annual was one of the best Spider-Man stories I've read in years too. Instead we get fucking Bob Gale (yawn) over what I believe would be the best fit for Spider-Man in a long time. I haven't read the new issue of War Journal yet but I'm looking forward to it more now. I'm 75% positive I won't be reading Amazing at all anymore and I already dropped OMD as it purely sucks on every level. Fraction writing would have made me at least keep BND Amazing on my pull list.

[Kman00001]

Nope, and that truly sucks. His Sensational Annual was one of the best Spider-Man stories I've read in years too. Instead we get fucking Bob Gale (yawn) over what I believe would be the best fit for Spider-Man in a long time. I haven't read the new issue of War Journal yet but I'm looking forward to it more now. I'm 75% positive I won't be reading Amazing at all anymore and I already dropped OMD as it purely sucks on every level. Fraction writing would have made me at least keep BND Amazing on my pull list.

Yep. Sigh.

[Nick Spencer]

Nope, and that truly sucks. His Sensational Annual was one of the best Spider-Man stories I've read in years too. Instead we get fucking Bob Gale (yawn) over what I believe would be the best fit for Spider-Man in a long time. I haven't read the new issue of War Journal yet but I'm looking forward to it more now. I'm 75% positive I won't be reading Amazing at all anymore and I already dropped OMD as it purely sucks on every level. Fraction writing would have made me at least keep BND Amazing on my pull list.

Whoa whoa whoa whoa.

There's a reason Bob Gale on ASM is a big deal.

This is the guy that wrote Back to the Future. Marty McFly, man. C'mon. That IS Peter Parker!

Sorry, but Gale's a great writer. Fraction's Spidey is awesome, and hopefully he'll get a turn at the ASM wheel. But that's no reason to rip on a guy that wrote one of the greatest movies of all time.

[Kefky]

It's a real shame he's not part of BND.

[Kman00001]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa.

There's a reason Bob Gale on ASM is a big deal.

This is the guy that wrote Back to the Future. Marty McFly, man. C'mon. That IS Peter Parker!

Sorry, but Gale's a great writer. Fraction's Spidey is awesome, and hopefully he'll get a turn at the ASM wheel. But that's no reason to rip on a guy that wrote one of the greatest movies of all time.

Back to the Future is one thing, but his comics work to date leaves much to be desired.

[Pat Loika]

Back to the Future is one thing, but his comics work to date leaves much to be desired.

He wrote a good number of No Man's Land issues, and a fun, light-hearted DD story. I think he's done well, so far.

P.

[Lemonade Lady]

How many comics has Bob Gale written? I'm a big fan of Back to the Future but I wasn't even aware that he wrote comics until the BND team was announced.

[Simps]

Instead we get fucking Bob Gale (yawn) over what I believe would be the best fit for Spider-Man in a long time.
You say that as if you know for certain that it was either Gale or Fraction.

[Pat Loika]

How many comics has Bob Gale written? I'm a big fan of Back to the Future but I wasn't even aware that he wrote comics until the BND team was announced.

For Marvel:
Daredevil # 20-25, which has yet to be collected, drawn by Phil Winslade.
Ant-Man's Big Christmas, also drawn by Winslade.

DC:
Batman: No Man's Land vol. 1 (drawn by Alex Maleev)

[Kman00001]

For Marvel:
Daredevil # 20-25, which has yet to be collected, drawn by Phil Winslade.
Ant-Man's Big Christmas, also drawn by Winslade.

DC:
Batman: No Man's Land vol. 1 (drawn by Alex Maleev)

He also did a one issue story about halfway through No Man's Land that I believe was also drawn by Winslade. I don't have the title or issue number handy, though.

I liked his DC work more than his Marvel work. I'll give him that.

[Nick Spencer]

And really, Spider-Man is a great fit for his sensibilities. There was a time, like a century ago, when people thought Michael J. Fox would be the PERFECT Peter Parker.

I also like that Gale wants to bring back the classic conventions of comics like thought balloons and footnotes. That stuff really works well for Spidey.

[Brad N.]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa.

There's a reason Bob Gale on ASM is a big deal.

This is the guy that wrote Back to the Future. Marty McFly, man. C'mon. That IS Peter Parker!

Sorry, but Gale's a great writer. Fraction's Spidey is awesome, and hopefully he'll get a turn at the ASM wheel. But that's no reason to rip on a guy that wrote one of the greatest movies of all time.

Bob Gale's Daredevil was some of the worst writing I've read this side of Chuck Austen. I didn't care for his Batman stuff either but I understand some people dug it. I think he's a decent enough writer and Love the BTTF flicks but I have no desire to see him on Spider-Man, especially over someone I actually like who has already proven he can write the character better than anyone I've seen in ages.

[Kefky]

I gotta say, Slott's the only writer that really has me excited about BND. Guggenheim and Wells are hint and miss with me, and Gale's just kinda meh.

[Masculine Todd]

Instead we get fucking Bob Gale (yawn) over what I believe would be the best fit for Spider-Man in a long time. .

Shouldn't you give the guy a chance first?

He's part of an all-star team and a high-profile restructuring of arguably Marvel's largest character. I'm quite sure the editors wouldn't haphazardly place him on the book if he didn't have a strong pitch or like where he's going with his idea's on the character.

[Pat Loika]

Bob Gale's Daredevil was some of the worst writing I've read this side of Chuck Austen. I didn't care for his Batman stuff either but I understand some people dug it. I think he's a decent enough writer and Love the BTTF flicks but I have no desire to see him on Spider-Man, especially over someone I actually like who has already proven he can write the character better than anyone I've seen in ages.

You're talking like they turned Fraction down...did he even pitch for the Spidey book?

[Brad N.]

You say that as if you know for certain that it was either Gale or Fraction.

No, I really didn't. I'm saying I can't stand Bob Gale and his inclusion is part of the reason I've dropped a book I've collected every issue of for nearly 20 years. Even when I stopped buying comics for a few years I still read ASM. Fraction in short time has impressed the hell out of me and his take on the character is a breath of fresh air and I personally would have preferred anyone over Gale, but Fraction especially. It's not all on Gale either, I'm also not a huge fan of the 3 ASM books in a month.

This makes me think of another point here. I love the Back to the Future movies. I grew up on them, saw them all in the theater and own the trilogy on DVD. BUT, as good as they were it's not like the screenplays are up there in Oscer territory or anything. It's not like Gale is even remotely responsible for the success or good things about those films so it seems odd to me that he is held in such high regard on that.

[Brad N.]

I gotta say, Slott's the only writer that really has me excited about BND. Guggenheim and Wells are hint and miss with me, and Gale's just kinda meh.


Yeah, I'm no fan of Wells either. At all. Guggenheim I like, as well as Slott.

[Brad N.]

Bob Gale's Daredevil was some of the worst writing I've read this side of Chuck Austen. I didn't care for his Batman stuff either but I understand some people dug it. I think he's a decent enough writer and Love the BTTF flicks but I have no desire to see him on Spider-Man, especially over someone I actually like who has already proven he can write the character better than anyone I've seen in ages.

You're talking like they turned Fraction down...did he even pitch for the Spidey book?

See above response to Ben. :)

[Brad N.]

Shouldn't you give the guy a chance first?

He's part of an all-star team and a high-profile restructuring of arguably Marvel's largest character. I'm quite sure the editors wouldn't haphazardly place him on the book if he didn't have a strong pitch or like where he's going with his idea's on the character.

Nah. I have a massive pull list as it is and up to now I buy one Spidey title per month - ASM. I think the idea that I now have to buy 3 copies of that book per month (an extra $6 a month isn't a lot, but it's more than I care to spend) is stupid. I had planned to give it a shot (and really I still MIGHT) until One More Day started turning out EXACTLY how it was rumored. The writing is horrid and Joe Q's art looks, to be honest, ugly to me. The second issue was so over the top craptastic that I decided as a lifelong fan I had had enough. I realize it won't make a difference and Marvel won't give a shit about losing a lifelong reader of ASM, but I refuse to keep giving them my hard earned cash for what I consider garbage.

I am getting sick of the wait and see attitude from my fellow comic dorks though. Telling me or someone else not to criticize without buying it first or to wait it out and even then if I don't have anything good to say about it then keep quiet. Not really talking about you Todd, or anyone else here, just in general something I've been bothered by. Comics are no different than anything else. If I see a concept car from Chevy that I think is ugly must I buy it first before saying I think it looks like an ugly car? Or if I see a trailer for a movie starring and written and directed by people I don't care for am I supposed to go and see it anyway before telling people it looks like shit? This is ONLY something I've noticed in this medium and maybe it has to do with us nerds being so protective of the medium or afraid of another crash or whatever, but I have at least as much right to say I have no desire to read ASM written by Bob Gale as people do to say they're excited about it.

[Nick Spencer]

Nah. I have a massive pull list as it is and up to now I buy one Spidey title per month - ASM. I think the idea that I now have to buy 3 copies of that book per month (an extra $6 a month isn't a lot, but it's more than I care to spend) is stupid. I had planned to give it a shot (and really I still MIGHT) until One More Day started turning out EXACTLY how it was rumored. The writing is horrid and Joe Q's art looks, to be honest, ugly to me. The second issue was so over the top craptastic that I decided as a lifelong fan I had had enough. I realize it won't make a difference and Marvel won't give a shit about losing a lifelong reader of ASM, but I refuse to keep giving them my hard earned cash for what I consider garbage.

I am getting sick of the wait and see attitude from my fellow comic dorks though. Telling me or someone else not to criticize without buying it first or to wait it out and even then if I don't have anything good to say about it then keep quiet. Not really talking about you Todd, or anyone else here, just in general something I've been bothered by. Comics are no different than anything else. If I see a concept car from Chevy that I think is ugly must I buy it first before saying I think it looks like an ugly car? Or if I see a trailer for a movie starring and written and directed by people I don't care for am I supposed to go and see it anyway before telling people it looks like shit? This is ONLY something I've noticed in this medium and maybe it has to do with us nerds being so protective of the medium or afraid of another crash or whatever, but I have at least as much right to say I have no desire to read ASM written by Bob Gale as people do to say they're excited about it.

Wow, you feel pretty strongly there right? Here's why I disagree: I think even you would admit the concept car analogy is flawed. But as far as movie trailers go... really, do you have anywhere NEAR as much info about Bob Gale's Spidey story as you get from the average trailer? Not really.

See, I perceive the exact opposite problem in comics-- which is people basically creating reviews out of solicits, interviews, and message board posts. The comics themselves are almost immaterial.

And it terrifies me how unforgiving comic fans can be. Have one bad arc or idea and it follows you the rest of your career. In movies, you can do crap and still get another shot with the fans.

So I guess I see things totally different...

[Brad N.]

Wow, you feel pretty strongly there right? Here's why I disagree: I think even you would admit the concept car analogy is flawed. But as far as movie trailers go... really, do you have anywhere NEAR as much info about Bob Gale's Spidey story as you get from the average trailer? Not really.

See, I perceive the exact opposite problem in comics-- which is people basically creating reviews out of solicits, interviews, and message board posts. The comics themselves are almost immaterial.

And it terrifies me how unforgiving comic fans can be. Have one bad arc or idea and it follows you the rest of your career. In movies, you can do crap and still get another shot with the fans.

So I guess I see things totally different...

I really don't feel all that strongly to be honest. I've read Gale's DD and Batman runs and didn't care for either. I'm just not excited in the least to read his take on Spidey while (even if he wasn't in the running) Matt Fraction has impressed me with his work time and time again especially where Spider-Man is concerned.

Obviously the concept car analogy isn't perfect, but my point was bigger than all that. I see a LOT of people talking up comics and how great a book is going to be (well, here, not Newsarama) with just as little info as someone who isn't as excited has, yet I constantly see someone like me who says I'm not excited about Gale's writing getting blasted or told to give it a chance or to buy it anyway and even if you don't like it don't say anything about it. That's not the way life works. If you don't like something you don't sit back and keep buying it out of habit and when asked or when it's being discussed you say something.

I really am not trying to come off as a seething internet fanboy. I just personally don't care much for Gale's comic work to this point (Wells either). My lack of enthusiasm for Brand New Day stems mainly from the horrid One More Day story going on now and the fact that ASM will come out 3 times a month instead of once.

[Simps]

It's not like Gale is even remotely responsible for the success or good things about those films so it seems odd to me that he is held in such high regard on that.
Well it's good to see you continue to speak from no experience.

[Brad N.]

Well it's good to see you continue to speak from no experience.

Really? Please explain oh wise one how he ranks above Zemekis, Spielberg, Christopher Lloyd, the Delorian / Time Travel concept, and Michael J. Fox on the influence those movies had on the public? I'll wait and as usual you'll either purposely take me out of context (as you just did) or make some snarky comment to make yourself seem superior.

[Simps]

Really? Please explain oh wise one how he ranks above Zemekis, Spielberg, Christopher Lloyd, the Delorian / Time Travel concept, and Michael J. Fox on the influence those movies had on the public? I'll wait and as usual you'll either purposely take me out of context (as you just did) or make some snarky comment to make yourself seem superior.
You said he is not even remotely responsible for any of the success or good things about the film. A) How is that out of context? B) How would you know that? Were you there while he worked on it with Zemeckis? Have you seen any of the drafts, were you at any meetings, do you even have any anecdotal stories to support what you said? Show me an interview where any of the people you named mention or infer that Gale isn't even remotely responsible for any of the success or good things about Back to the Future, and I'll apologize, otherwise you sound like a loudmouthed idiot.

[NickT]

If Fraction was on ASM, might he have to then drop Iron Fist, Punisher, The Order or Casanova?

[Brad N.]

You said he is not even remotely responsible for any of the success or good things about the film. A) How is that out of context? B) How would you know that? Were you there while he worked on it with Zemeckis? Have you seen any of the drafts, were you at any meetings, do you even have any anecdotal stories to support what you said? Show me an interview where any of the people you named mention or infer that Gale isn't even remotely responsible for any of the success or good things about Back to the Future, and I'll apologize, otherwise you sound like a loudmouthed idiot.

And you're a fucking MOD?!? What's funny is if I said the same when talking about you I'd be Permabanned. Nice to know.

Now, read what I was talking about there in context. I was discussing how the films themselves, the Back to the Future Trilogy may have been mostly the idea of Gale and he co-wrote the screenplay with Zemekis but the screenplays weren't exactly Oscar material. The time travel concept, Spielberg's involvement/name on the top of all the posters, Zemekis' directing job, and all the actors involved IN MY OPINION were all more influential. Obviously Gale wasn't a non-factor and I NEVER said or implied that. I merely pointed out that I think in the comics community he gets entirely too much credit. Last time I looked living in this country gave me the right to feel that way, Ben. Even if I sound to you like a loudmouth idiot.

[Simps]

And you're a fucking MOD?!? What's funny is if I said the same when talking about you I'd be Permabanned. Nice to know.
If it walks like a duck...


Obviously Gale wasn't a non-factor and I NEVER said or implied that.

This statement you made earlier doesn't support that:


It's not like Gale is even remotely responsible for the success or good things about those films so it seems odd to me that he is held in such high regard on that.

I can understand had you said he's not the sole factor responsible for their success, but you said he's not even remotely responsible for the films' success.

[Brad N.]

If it walks like a duck...



This statement you made earlier doesn't support that:



I can understand had you said he's not the sole factor responsible for their success, but you said he's not even remotely responsible for the films' success.

Sorry Ben, but I won't let you rope me into your childish games of name calling. You can find another way to ban me if you really want to.

I see I left out a bit of information (even still I don't think it warranted your initial response), but you still left out the context of what I was talking about before I said that. I made mention of how comic fans hold him in such high regard while saying he wasn't THAT responsible for the success of the films. I should have included more to make it more clear that I wasn't saying he had nothing to do with them.

[The Doctor]

Not this again:roll: