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S. Earl
11-10-2007, 04:25 PM
But I let my pal that only reads DC trades borrow the entire stack of the entire crossover, and he is now a overnight Marvel Zombie.

Here is what he requested to read now:
Bru's Cap Run (and he stressed how great the Winter Kills issue was and how he wants to read more about the Winter Soldier)
A good Namor arc
Planet and WWHulk
Both Avengers Books
The Illuminati series
Something with Deadpool in it
Iron Man

and Spider man (I told him wait till next year on that one)

So there you go, mission accomplished.

Kefky
11-10-2007, 04:26 PM
The fact that a lot of people loved it, doesn't take anything away from the large number of people that hated it.

GrandeMaestro Fünke
11-10-2007, 04:28 PM
Direct him to the Deadpool/Cable trades, its really great book during the Nicieza/Brooks/Zircher run.

S. Earl
11-10-2007, 04:29 PM
The fact that a lot of people loved it, doesn't take anything away from the large number of people that hated it.

My point is that it made someone want to read more Marvel books, which is what I think the point of serialized fiction is: To make the reader feel like they need to know what happens next.

Kefky
11-10-2007, 04:30 PM
My point is that it made someone want to read more Marvel books, which is what I think the point of serialized fiction is: To make the reader feel like they need to know what happens next.

....But the people who hated it can still hate it just as much, right? And they can think the story's only hurting the characters in the long run, right?

S. Earl
11-10-2007, 04:31 PM
Direct him to the Deadpool/Cable trades, its really great book during the Nicieza/Brooks/Zircher run.

That is a good idea. I think the reason he was so taken aback by Deadpool is that Deadpool kind of goes against everything a casual reader of comics is lead to believe a super hero book would be like.

Adam Witt
11-10-2007, 04:32 PM
My point is that it made someone want to read more Marvel books, which is what I think the point of serialized fiction is: To make the reader feel like they need to know what happens next.

Moreover, he's also about to get to read some really good stories. If he's getting a gateway to the good stuff, let it come in any form.

S. Earl
11-10-2007, 04:32 PM
....But the people who hated it can still hate it just as much, right? And they can think the story's only hurting the characters in the long run, right?

HOLY FUCK!
I am not trying to debate who likes what and why!

Yes, yes you and everyone can keep their opinions, I never said you couldn't.

Albert
11-10-2007, 04:33 PM
The fact that a lot of people loved it, doesn't take anything away from the large number of people that hated it.

Yes, and the opposite is true. We could do this all day!

GrandeMaestro Fünke
11-10-2007, 04:33 PM
What did you lend him from Civil War exactly?

S. Earl
11-10-2007, 04:33 PM
Yes, and the opposite is true. We could do this all day!

and we have! in countless other CW threads.

bartleby
11-10-2007, 04:34 PM
....But the people who hated it can still hate it just as much, right? And they can think the story's only hurting the characters in the long run, right?

Sure... if they want to be wrong.

S. Earl
11-10-2007, 04:35 PM
What did you lend him from Civil War exactly?

every issue with the CW label on it, with the exception of the X men mini. I also included CAP 25 and the fallen son mini. I think that is about 75 comics or so, I am not sure

RebootedCorpse
11-10-2007, 04:48 PM
I loved Civil War. I dunno why its engendered so much antipathy.

Matt O'Keefe
11-10-2007, 04:49 PM
....But the people who hated it can still hate it just as much, right? And they can think the story's only hurting the characters in the long run, right?

Did you only recently become extremely negative? I just started noticing this a week ago.

bartleby
11-10-2007, 04:50 PM
I loved Civil War. I dunno why its engendered so much antipathy.

Because change is scary.

S. Earl
11-10-2007, 04:52 PM
I would like to point out that I only started this thread in order to show how stoked I was that my pal became a Marvel Fan due to one crossover, not to begin the "Is Civil War good debate" again.

But now that it has happened, as it always does, please carry on.

Kefky
11-10-2007, 05:00 PM
Did you only recently become extremely negative? I just started noticing this a week ago.

I dunno, I think I'm always pretty negative. Maybe you only noticed now 'cause I'm being negative about things you like? :-?


I would like to point out that I only started this thread in order to show how stoked I was that my pal became a Marvel Fan due to one crossover, not to begin the "Is Civil War good debate" again.

But now that it has happened, as it always does, please carry on.

Don't worry, I was just jerking your chain. But clearly, people still take this topic very seriously. Silly me. :twisted:


Because change is scary.

Isn't it wonderful how you can invalidate opinions that are different from yours with so few words?

Pat Loika
11-10-2007, 05:01 PM
I got some friends into comics because of Civil War, too. Since then, they started trying out other books. Particularly Cap and Iron Man, as well as both Avengers titles.

P.

Matt O'Keefe
11-10-2007, 05:03 PM
I dunno, I think I'm always pretty negative. Maybe you only noticed now 'cause I'm being negative about things you like? :-?

I don't much like Civil War.

nick maynard
11-10-2007, 05:04 PM
Isn't it wonderful how you can invalidate opinions that are different from yours with so few words?

yes.

Kefky
11-10-2007, 05:05 PM
I don't much like Civil War.

*shrugs* Maybe you should pay more attention to my posts then, so as to notice my overall negativity towards things?

Bill!
11-10-2007, 05:06 PM
I loved Civil War. I dunno why its engendered so much antipathy.

Thou shalt not disturb the Marvel status quo.

Marvel fans, celebrating and demanding 60 years of the same shit over and over.

Kefky
11-10-2007, 05:14 PM
Thou shalt not disturb the Marvel status quo.

Marvel fans, celebrating and demanding 60 years of the same shit over and over.

And a reader should never try to distinguish whether a certain status quo is good or bad because it makes him a pussy, right? Every single status quo change brought on by the big two should be whole-heartedly accepted by the entire fanbase, without any questions, because it's all for the best of the industry, right?

Matt O'Keefe
11-10-2007, 05:17 PM
Thou shalt not disturb the Marvel status quo.

Marvel fans, celebrating and demanding 60 years of the same shit over and over.

My issue is that it was forced on writers. Brought a lot of great ideas, of course, but I would've liked it if writers of titles were allowed to steer their own ships.

Bill!
11-10-2007, 05:20 PM
And a reader should never try to distinguish whether a certain status quo is good or bad because it makes him a pussy, right? Every single status quo change brought on by the big two should be whole-heartedly accepted by the entire fanbase, without any questions, because it's all for the best of the industry, right?

It's been my experience that fans will gripe about changing anything about what they've been reading about, not even retcons, but just taking characters in different directions or killing people off.

Any one thing in particular (just one, not wanting to get into another CW debate) that peeved you about the change in status quo from Civil War?

Bill!
11-10-2007, 05:21 PM
My issue is that it was forced on writers. Brought a lot of great ideas, of course, but I would've liked it if writers of titles were allowed to steer their own ships.

I agree with that to a degree. I think writers should be able to have their own direction. However, you do need at least some editorial control when dealing with universal issues, otherwise you have the clusterfuck that is Decimation.

Matt O'Keefe
11-10-2007, 05:22 PM
I agree with that to a degree. I think writers should be able to have their own direction. However, you do need at least some editorial control when dealing with universal issues, otherwise you have the clusterfuck that is Decimation.

That's why I just don't like events. It forces editorial control.

Bill!
11-10-2007, 05:23 PM
That's why I just don't like events. It forces editorial control.

You just need a really good editor. Someone who loves to tell stories, rather than someone looking to pump out the dollars.

Matt O'Keefe
11-10-2007, 05:23 PM
You just need a really good editor. Someone who loves to tell stories, rather than someone looking to pump out the dollars.

Steve Wacker!

c. page
11-10-2007, 05:26 PM
Yeah, one of my best friends, who got me into comics waaay back when we were kids, had stopped reading around the clone saga. I loaned him the Civil War mini and the first six Ultimate Spider-Man trades, and he's hooked again. He gets at least six trades a week from the library, including stuff he wouldn't normally have touched like DKR and Watchmen. (he felt they were overrated before, and wouldn't read them.)

Kefky
11-10-2007, 05:26 PM
It's been my experience that fans will gripe about changing anything about what they've been reading about, not even retcons, but just taking characters in different directions or killing people off.

Any one thing in particular (just one, not wanting to get into another CW debate) that peeved you about the change in status quo from Civil War?

My opinion on civil war isn't really the point here. I think you're making a pretty nasty generalization with that statement. You're demeaning people's opinions. If readers thought civil war was a crap story, which in turn, brought about crap changes that won't do any good in the long run, and aren't even working now they have every right to. Change is good yes, but there's no reason to accept every change the big two drops on us without a critical eye.

Lemonade Lady
11-10-2007, 05:28 PM
I would like to point out that I only started this thread in order to show how stoked I was that my pal became a Marvel Fan due to one crossover, not to begin the "Is Civil War good debate" again.

Did she/he become a fan specifically because of the crossover storyline or simply because this was her/his first sampling of a whole bunch of different titles (not to mention artists and writers)? Isn't it possible that you'd have gotten a similar response if the comics you lent her/him weren't part of a crossover? It's not like she/he actively sought out the things because of Civil War, the comics you gave her/him just happened to be Civil War. What if you'd lent her/him a stack Astonishing X-Men, Daredevil, Runaways and so on?

It's cool that you brought in a new fan, but without all the details it sounds more like it was due to the whole free comics thing rather than the Civil War thing.

Matt O'Keefe
11-10-2007, 05:28 PM
including stuff he wouldn't normally have touched like DKR and Watchmen. (he felt they were overrated before, and wouldn't read them.)

He thought they were overrated before reading them?:mistrust:

c. page
11-10-2007, 05:31 PM
He thought they were overrated before reading them?:mistrust:

reading how something is the "greatest story ever" in shit like wizard, yeah. he basically felt (initially) that nothing could really lead up to the hype that was generated for these two books, in particular.

haven't talked to him since he started watchmen, so i don't know how he felt about that, but he said year one for batman was better than DKR, although DKR was a good story.

Matt O'Keefe
11-10-2007, 05:32 PM
reading how something is the "greatest story ever" in shit like wizard, yeah. he basically felt (initially) that nothing could really lead up to the hype that was generated for these two books, in particular.

haven't talked to him since he started watchmen, so i don't know how he felt about that, but he said year one for batman was better than DKR, although DKR was a good story.

Yeah, I think most people think DKR is overrated by now.

Bill!
11-10-2007, 05:32 PM
reading how something is the "greatest story ever" in shit like wizard, yeah. he basically felt (initially) that nothing could really lead up to the hype that was generated for these two books, in particular.

haven't talked to him since he started watchmen, so i don't know how he felt about that, but he said year one for batman was better than DKR, although DKR was a good story.

Yeah. I think its hard for people to read those kind of books fresh these days. But, at the same time, hearing all the hype over one or two books makes the other wonderful books out there that much more of a surprise and better. Like Arkham Asylum or the Coffin.

c. page
11-10-2007, 05:35 PM
Yeah. I think its hard for people to read those kind of books fresh these days. But, at the same time, hearing all the hype over one or two books makes the other wonderful books out there that much more of a surprise and better. Like Arkham Asylum or the Coffin.

oooh, thanks for reminding me. i have to add those to my recommendation list for the guy.

Bill!
11-10-2007, 05:41 PM
oooh, thanks for reminding me. i have to add those to my recommendation list for the guy.

Give him the Coffin and then recommend him every other thing Hester has written. It's all gold. The Wretch is probably even better, but the Coffin is probably a better read for beginners. I think the Wretch is better after having read some of Hester's other stuff.

ThisSpaceForRent
11-10-2007, 05:54 PM
And a reader should never try to distinguish whether a certain status quo is good or bad because it makes him a pussy, right? Every single status quo change brought on by the big two should be whole-heartedly accepted by the entire fanbase, without any questions, because it's all for the best of the industry, right?

You need a hug. Not from me...I can't really stand you....but you need a hug.

Nick Spencer
11-10-2007, 06:25 PM
Yeah, I think most people think DKR is overrated by now.

Wait... what?

Nonononononononononoooooooooo.....

And didn't we just have one of these 'my team is better than yours' threads two days ago. I think this is just a more subtle version of that. Which is really a debate best had between twelve year olds.

S. Earl
11-10-2007, 06:33 PM
Did she/he become a fan specifically because of the crossover storyline or simply because this was her/his first sampling of a whole bunch of different titles (not to mention artists and writers)? Isn't it possible that you'd have gotten a similar response if the comics you lent her/him weren't part of a crossover? It's not like she/he actively sought out the things because of Civil War, the comics you gave her/him just happened to be Civil War. What if you'd lent her/him a stack Astonishing X-Men, Daredevil, Runaways and so on?

It's cool that you brought in a new fan, but without all the details it sounds more like it was due to the whole free comics thing rather than the Civil War thing.

When we lived together I was always trying to get him into Marvel books, and it never took. Morrison X Men, Waid FF, 1602, Essential FF vol 1-4, Ultimate Spider Man,etc etc. The only two things he really liked were Ennis Punisher (which he know collects) and Astonishing... which he buys 4 times a year or so. Whenever the new issues come out.

Jen Grunwald
11-11-2007, 10:40 AM
But I let my pal that only reads DC trades borrow the entire stack of the entire crossover, and he is now a overnight Marvel Zombie.

Here is what he requested to read now:
Bru's Cap Run (and he stressed how great the Winter Kills issue was and how he wants to read more about the Winter Soldier)
A good Namor arc
Planet and WWHulk
Both Avengers Books
The Illuminati series
Something with Deadpool in it
Iron Man

and Spider man (I told him wait till next year on that one)

So there you go, mission accomplished.

YOU ROCK!!!!!

:heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:

YAY MARVEL!!!!


:rogue:

A.Huerta
11-11-2007, 10:53 AM
And a reader should never try to distinguish whether a certain status quo is good or bad because it makes him a pussy, right? Every single status quo change brought on by the big two should be whole-heartedly accepted by the entire fanbase, without any questions, because it's all for the best of the industry, right?

When has it ever been done right, then? according to the "fans" every event so far sucks. I think some of you guys will never be happy, so just chill.

As long as Marvel or DC are trying to move things forward and getting new readers to pick up titles, instead of repeating the same shit/same character/same dramas every year, theyre ok in my book.