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View Full Version : Does Messiah CompleX spoil the end of Whedon's Astonishing run?



allanpat
11-08-2007, 07:37 AM
Because there only seems to be one main Astonishing member that's mysteriously absent from the crossover so far...

Ben
11-08-2007, 08:01 AM
NO! Don't say that!!!!!

allanpat
11-08-2007, 08:04 AM
NO! Don't say that!!!!!

It doesn't mean she's dead - they've just said one member of the team won't be returning. I'm betting she goes off to Lockheed's home planet or something after learning he's been intelligent all this time.

Ben
11-08-2007, 08:05 AM
It doesn't mean she's dead - they've just said one member of the team won't be returning. I'm betting she goes off to Lockheed's home planet or something after learning he's been intelligent all this time.She was in X-Men 202 or 203, though. Do we think Astonishing 13-24 takes place during a day between that issue and Messiah Complex?

allanpat
11-08-2007, 08:08 AM
She was in X-Men 202 or 203, though. Do we think Astonishing 13-24 takes place during a day between that issue and Messiah Complex?


that's what i think. they haven't been in space for long, so AXM could easily fall inbetween X-Men 202 & Messiah Complex

I recall one of the X-editors saying they'll make the whole timeline clear after AXM ends.

Jef UK
11-08-2007, 08:09 AM
That's way too vague to be a real spoiler. Besides, we haven't seen a lot of the larger X-Team yet. And even so, we shouldn't assume the worst.

allanpat
11-08-2007, 08:14 AM
That's way too vague to be a real spoiler. Besides, we haven't seen a lot of the larger X-Team yet. And even so, we shouldn't assume the worst.

Well, if we know one AXM member is not supposed to come back from space, and only ONE AXM member isn't present in Messiah Complex so far, it doesn't seem very vague to me.

allanpat
11-08-2007, 10:04 AM
Well, if we know one AXM member is not supposed to come back from space, and only ONE AXM member isn't present in Messiah Complex so far, it doesn't seem very vague to me.


Actually, I should correct that statement - we haven't seen Armor yet either, but i believe she's on the cover to a future issue of New X-Men, correct?

Jef UK
11-08-2007, 10:25 AM
Well, if we know one AXM member is not supposed to come back from space, and only ONE AXM member isn't present in Messiah Complex so far, it doesn't seem very vague to me.

I didn't know that one AXM member is not supposed to come back from space. :?

Does allanpat spoil the ending to AXM?

allanpat
11-08-2007, 10:27 AM
I didn't know that one AXM member is not supposed to come back from space. :?

Does allanpat spoil the ending to AXM?

nope, marvel's been hyping the 'one person doesn't come back' thing since the beginning of the final arc.
i'm pretty sure it's been in solicits, interviews, and maybe even the letters page (i forget if AXM has had letter pages recently or not)

NickT
11-08-2007, 10:29 AM
I didn't know that one AXM member is not supposed to come back from space. :?

Does allanpat spoil the ending to AXM?
I think Blind said it 6 issues ago or something. She could also be wrong :)

Anne Onymous
11-08-2007, 10:31 AM
It doesn't mean she's dead - they've just said one member of the team won't be returning. I'm betting she goes off to Lockheed's home planet or something after learning he's been intelligent all this time.

Would that be setting up a goofy situation where she's the pet of the duo for a while? ;)

Maestro
11-08-2007, 10:36 AM
Kitty is alive. She's in New X-Men #43 and X-Men #204, which occurs right before MC starts.

Jef UK
11-08-2007, 10:43 AM
I think Blind said it 6 issues ago or something. She could also be wrong :)

Oh, so two years ago? ;)

Seriously, I can't wait for the OHC of this one to read it one go.

I bet it's Lockheed who stays.

Albert
11-08-2007, 10:48 AM
Would that be setting up a goofy situation where she's the pet of the duo for a while? ;)

I think you've just set up some disturbing fanfics.

Evan the Shaggy
11-08-2007, 10:53 AM
I'm pretty sure Armor's the one to bite it. She's the safest bet.

tom daylight
11-08-2007, 10:59 AM
actually, Marvel has been pretty clear in saying that all the current X-books take place before AXM #13. ergo, MC contains no spoilers.

(and emma in MC is still convinced she's part of the hellfire club.)

also, I'm pretty sure the one who "bites it" is the one who's already "bitten it"...

Ben
11-08-2007, 11:04 AM
actually, Marvel has been pretty clear in saying that all the current X-books take place before AXM #13. ergo, MC contains no spoilers.

(and emma in MC is still convinced she's part of the hellfire club.)

also, I'm pretty sure the one who "bites it" is the one who's already "bitten it"...
I don't remember them saying that.

changingshades
11-08-2007, 11:45 AM
Oh, so two years ago? ;)

Seriously, I can't wait for the OHC of this one to read it one go.

I bet it's Lockheed who stays.

If it's not, I'll be surprised.

and if it is my favorite Comic JAP, I'll be doubly surprised that Claremont and Byrne didn't set fire to Marvel offices.

Ben
11-08-2007, 11:50 AM
If it's not, I'll be surprised.

and if it is my favorite Comic JAP, I'll be doubly surprised that Claremont and Byrne didn't set fire to Marvel offices.
Kitty is not a JAP...

Albert
11-08-2007, 11:53 AM
actually, Marvel has been pretty clear in saying that all the current X-books take place before AXM #13. ergo, MC contains no spoilers.

So you're saying that the big, status quo-shaking crossover that will rattle the x-books actually establishes a continuity we've seen for over a year that is pretty much the same to other books at that time? The fact that Astonishing was supposed to be done by now makes this even harder to believe.

S. Earl
11-08-2007, 12:21 PM
She is also in WWH X men

Gordon Chumway
11-08-2007, 12:41 PM
I agree that Lockheed is going to be the one staying behind. I am confused about when this is happening though. If whedon has decided that Scott will control his powers, which I think would be cool will the others write him that way?

It's almost like Astonishing is an elseworld book. Which is too bad cause it's the best x-book.

tom daylight
11-09-2007, 12:31 AM
So you're saying that the big, status quo-shaking crossover that will rattle the x-books actually establishes a continuity we've seen for over a year that is pretty much the same to other books at that time? The fact that Astonishing was supposed to be done by now makes this even harder to believe.

What continuity? We've hardly seen anything of the wider X-world in AXM. There hasn't even been reference to Decimation.

From a March edition of Joe Fridays:


Nick Lowe: Its place in continuity is "yet to come". When the story wraps, it'll be much more clear, but I don't want to give anything away. Suffice it to say, it's not a "this takes place before Civil War" kind of thing.

The events in “Torn” and “Unstoppable” happen over a small period of time (a few days) that will occur in continuity as the story finishes and the events can be reflected in the other books without giving away any story twists, etc... The schedule isn't quite bi-monthly (it's more complex than that), but we do have a plan as to how it all fits together. But don't worry, the Astonishing characters will be in the crossover.

And fact is if any book's going to "change the status quo", it's going to be the flagship one, the bestseller, Astonishing. The other books work around its schedule.

Magnum V.I.
11-09-2007, 12:49 AM
What continuity? We've hardly seen anything of the wider X-world in AXM. There hasn't even been reference to Decimation.

From a March edition of Joe Fridays:



And fact is if any book's going to "change the status quo", it's going to be the flagship one, the bestseller, Astonishing. The other books work around its schedule.

How is Astonishing the Flagship Book? If anything Uncanny and X-Men are more status quo than an X-Book that is 24 issues and started over 6 years ago.

noble
11-09-2007, 02:37 AM
Six years ago?

Surely not.

Michael Wagner
11-09-2007, 05:22 AM
Six years ago?

Surely not.

Started July 2004. Three and a half years and 23 issues. I guess it's faster than Planetary was.

MagicGamer
11-09-2007, 05:35 AM
There hasn't even been reference to Decimation.

Yeah there was. In issue 13 or 14, when Wolverne's training the kids, he says something about people leaving or losing ther powers.

Jef UK
11-09-2007, 06:07 AM
And fact is if any book's going to "change the status quo", it's going to be the flagship one, the bestseller, Astonishing. The other books work around its schedule.

Nothing in the quotes you cited show Marvel being pretty clear in saying that all the current X-books take place before AXM #13.

tom daylight
11-09-2007, 08:42 AM
Well I have seen it being made clearer than that but I'm having trouble finding those quotes from editorial - there's too many search results to filter through. I'm just trying to help you out here. I did see one by a New X-Men writer, though, that said something to the effect of "Astonishing takes place in the future".

And Astonishing IS the flagship book of the line. It's the ongoing series that sells the best - ergo the book read by more people than any other - it's the one the rest of the line follows. It's the one with the top-name creators and the plum pick of the cast. To pretend otherwise would be self-delusion.

Skatonic10
11-09-2007, 08:44 AM
She was in X-Men 202 or 203, though. Do we think Astonishing 13-24 takes place during a day between that issue and Messiah Complex?


She was also in the most recent issue of New X-Men, which also features Predator X, or whatever that animal is called. And according to the timeline in the book, that issue should take place only hours before the one-shot kick off.

Albert
11-09-2007, 08:45 AM
And Astonishing IS the flagship book of the line. It's the ongoing series that sells the best - ergo the book read by more people than any other - it's the one the rest of the line follows. It's the one with the top-name creators and the plum pick of the cast. To pretend otherwise would be self-delusion.

Ed Brubaker says hi.

Jef UK
11-09-2007, 09:05 AM
Well I have seen it being made clearer than that but I'm having trouble finding those quotes from editorial - there's too many search results to filter through. I'm just trying to help you out here. I did see one by a New X-Men writer, though, that said something to the effect of "Astonishing takes place in the future".

And Astonishing IS the flagship book of the line. It's the ongoing series that sells the best - ergo the book read by more people than any other - it's the one the rest of the line follows. It's the one with the top-name creators and the plum pick of the cast. To pretend otherwise would be self-delusion.

It's not a part of the Messiah CompleX crossover.

It has a different agenda then the other X-Books, and dances between the raindrops of continuity.

tom daylight
11-09-2007, 09:22 AM
Ed Brubaker says hi.

And Joss Whedon says hi back, but looking all purple-like. (Kristen Bell actually worked with him, once. :))

HomerGator
11-09-2007, 09:33 AM
I think Danger is the one not returning. Armor's on a New X-Men cover for Messiah Compelx, if I"m not mistaken.

Magnum V.I.
11-09-2007, 12:25 PM
And Joss Whedon says hi back, but looking all purple-like. (Kristen Bell actually worked with him, once. :))

Yeah I'm going to have to say no. You're wrong. Astonishing is not even an Ongoing. It's not part of the biggest X-Over in 10 years. If it really was the Flagship book and thought of that way by Marvel, then it'd be an ongoing with Messiah CompleX tie ins.

Jef UK
11-09-2007, 12:32 PM
Lockheed taking to the stars is like Chuck getting his legs back. Happens every few years. (Probably less frequently, honestly, but still!)

allanpat
11-09-2007, 12:44 PM
Lockheed taking to the stars is like Chuck getting his legs back. Happens every few years. (Probably less frequently, honestly, but still!)


Just think of the Futurama episode where Leela discovers Nibbler is part of a sentient intelligent race when she thought he was just an adorably cute pet the whole time and they go back to his home planet in an attempt to save the universe.

Then substitute Leela & Nibbler with Kitty and Lockheed and there you go

Colby
11-09-2007, 01:06 PM
Just think of the Futurama episode where Leela discovers Nibbler is part of a sentient intelligent race when she thought he was just an adorably cute pet the whole time and they go back to his home planet in an attempt to save the universe.

Then substitute Leela & Nibbler with Kitty and Lockheed and there you go

So every major religion got it wrong!

Ashwin Pande
11-09-2007, 01:47 PM
pardon me for intruding in an already ongoing discussion but I haven't read Astonishing in quite a while. I think the last issue I read was the end of the Hellfire Club arc and I haven't really bothered to catch up with the book at work. A couple of pages back someone said someone has already "bitten it". May I ask who?

allanpat
11-09-2007, 01:52 PM
pardon me for intruding in an already ongoing discussion but I haven't read Astonishing in quite a while. I think the last issue I read was the end of the Hellfire Club arc and I haven't really bothered to catch up with the book at work. A couple of pages back someone said someone has already "bitten it". May I ask who?


they're probably talking about...

...Cyclops, but he pulls a Jean Grey. It's a really awesome scene, you catch up

Ashwin Pande
11-09-2007, 02:02 PM
they're probably talking about...

...Cyclops, but he pulls a Jean Grey. It's a really awesome scene, you catch up

ahh I see... I was also wondering...

Don't read if you haven't read Illuminati 5 or haven't seen the spoilers...

I read in the Illuminati 5 thread that a collosus skrull and a Thor skrull show up to attack Iron Man and gang... Could Collosus be a Skrull? It'd make sense what with him having really died and everything... Have they shown anything to negate this? I remember Hank doing a DNA scan in the beginning when they found him confirming it was Piotr but the Skrulls could have worked their way around that...

DaveCummings
11-09-2007, 02:03 PM
Then again, the one who could not return is Misako.

allanpat
11-09-2007, 02:05 PM
ahh I see... I was also wondering...

Don't read if you haven't read Illuminati 5 or haven't seen the spoilers...

I read in the Illuminati 5 thread that a collosus skrull and a Thor skrull show up to attack Iron Man and gang... Could Collosus be a Skrull? It'd make sense what with him having really died and everything... Have they shown anything to negate this? I remember Hank doing a DNA scan in the beginning when they found him confirming it was Piotr but the Skrulls could have worked their way around that...

Bendis made it sound like the Thor/Colossus skrulls weren't necessarily the 'real' Thor & Colossus, but instead were Super-Skrulls from various families. Colossus was an X-Men skrull with all of the X-Men's powers - Thor was an Avengers skrull with the classic Avengers powers.

Do you want me to do your school homework next? :)

Ashwin Pande
11-09-2007, 02:08 PM
Bendis made it sound like the Thor/Colossus skrulls weren't necessarily the 'real' Thor & Colossus, but instead were Super-Skrulls from various families. Colossus was an X-Men skrull with all of the X-Men's powers - Thor was an Avengers skrull with the classic Avengers powers.

Do you want me to do your school homework next? :)

Well I haven't read the actual issue and was theorising on the basis of spoilers ;)

But I have these algebraic equations I'm having trouble with.....

allanpat
11-09-2007, 02:08 PM
Then again, the one who could not return is Misako.

..or not

http://marvel.com/comics/onsale/covers/uploaded/0.796989001192546325image_big.jpg

Skatonic10
11-09-2007, 02:46 PM
..or not

http://marvel.com/comics/onsale/covers/uploaded/0.796989001192546325image_big.jpg

I thought Astonishing takes place in the future. And MC seems to be taking place slightly behind the pace of the rest of the MU (WWH and Invasion) so maybe this doesn't count?

Ben
11-09-2007, 02:49 PM
I thought Astonishing takes place in the future. And MC seems to be taking place slightly behind the pace of the rest of the MU (WWH and Invasion) so maybe this doesn't count?Marvel has not said when Astonishing takes place. Everyone should STOP worrying about it until Joss is done!!!!