Serious ROTS question about Vader's conception (SPOILERS)

[Ziolko]

(I didn't see this come up in any of the ROTS threads that I actually managed to go through (and there's a gazillion), but I'm sure if it has already come up someone will post a link followed by that rolls eyes emoticon. Also, please excuse any spelling mistakes on Star Wars names)

SPOILERS BELOW:



During Anakin and Palpatine's conversation during the opera, Palpatine mentioned in the legend of the Sith that his mentor was even able to create life. Given that Palpatine supposedly learned everything from his mentor before he disposed of him and Anakin's "messianic" birth, is it possible that Palpatine used his powers to produce Anakin by "emmaculate conception" on Tatooine, born a slave so he would have been easily monitored and manipulated to become not only a powerful jedi but have the seeds sown for him to become a Sith Lord?

Just a stupid theory. And please don't crowd this thread with Palpatine porn jokes. I've got a headache already trying to type all that out without making it an obvious gag for someone else.

[En Sabah Poo]

It's been debated on here about that, and its pretty much something that has not been answered and can't be answered until Lucas confirms it one way or the other. It's an interesting notion though. First you have to believe Palpatine is Plagius's apprentice, and then you have to believe he created Anakin somehow.

[Ziolko]

It's been debated on here about that, and its pretty much something that has not been answered and can't be answered until Lucas confirms it one way or the other. It's an interesting notion though. First you have to believe Palpatine is Plagius's apprentice, and then you have to believe he created Anakin somehow.

It felt like a lot of it was sort of implied. I just thought it was interesting that the only thing that need to be brought up was the Sith's ability to save life, not create it. It seemed Palpatine looked pointively at Anakin when he said it. It certainly puts a different spin on their relationship as well.

But yeah, it probably can't be proven unless Lucas outright confirms it, which I don't see happening.

[Cth]

I don't see it personally..

He does have the knowledge, and he is Plageis' apprentice.. but Palpatine lies.. and has done so before to Anakin.

It's an interesting parallel though.. as Luke is positioned to kill his dad, but Vader kills his dad (if it's true).. it has a Greek tragedy feel to it..

I just think it's TOO much of a coincidence.

I don't see Palpatine going so far away to do it himself. He's too busy on Naboo and wouldn't be able to escape on unexplained trips.

Of course, there was a theory going around about Qui Gon manipulating midichlorians to create Luke and imparted part of himself into him which would go a long way to explain a lot of things.

[Gregory]

Lucas said in the recent Star Wars Vanity Fair cover story that Anakin was the natural by-product of a rare confluence of midichlorians. He said that the Force and lifeforce are so interconnected, that this would not be unheard of among those characters who study the Force.

[AAlgar]

I took much of what Palpatine told Anakin as lies. The whole "Sith can save life" thing was a total sham, I felt. Palpatine just knew he was having those visions, and siezed on the opportunity, telling him exactly what he wanted to hear.

[Cth]

Lucas said in the recent Star Wars Vanity Fair cover story that Anakin was the natural by-product of a rare confluence of midichlorians. He said that the Force and lifeforce are so interconnected, that this would not be unheard of among those characters who study the Force.

Translation: It just happened that way.

That's how I saw it too. :)

[Mister Mets]

It's a great idea which explains Vader's conception better than the Jesus comparison.

[En Sabah Poo]

It's a great idea which explains Vader's conception better than the Jesus comparison.
Yeah, I hate the notion that he is a Jesus figure. Although, thinking about it, he might sorta be the anti-christ actually.

[Taxman]

I the Vanity Fair interview from a couple of months ago, Lucas said the Anakin was concieved by the Force, that he was a true immaculate conception, and a demi-god. Of course, I am sure he is free to change his mind on this later.

[McAfee]

Yeah, I hate the notion that he is a Jesus figure. Although, thinking about it, he might sorta be the anti-christ actually.

Wasn't Satan (Lucifer, whatever) an angel once???;)

[Balthazar]

Wasn't Satan (Lucifer, whatever) an angel once???;)


Yes. He was an archangel. He was God's greatest angel.

[adamgreenberger]

SPOILERS BELOW:



During Anakin and Palpatine's conversation during the opera, Palpatine mentioned in the legend of the Sith that his mentor was even able to create life. Given that Palpatine supposedly learned everything from his mentor before he disposed of him and Anakin's "messianic" birth, is it possible that Palpatine used his powers to produce Anakin by "emmaculate conception" on Tatooine, born a slave so he would have been easily monitored and manipulated to become not only a powerful jedi but have the seeds sown for him to become a Sith Lord?

Just a stupid theory. And please don't crowd this thread with Palpatine porn jokes. I've got a headache already trying to type all that out without making it an obvious gag for someone else.

I have to agree that it was implied that he was Anakin's father. But how could he have been monitored since it was said that the Republic had no intrests in Tatooine?? Also how could he have manipulated Qui Gonn and Obi Wan to end up there??

That being said...it is possible that this is the case, and Palpatine had planned on coming and getting Anakin to train him in the ways of the Sith, but when Qui Gonn, Obi Wan, the driods, and Padame ended up there unexpectantly it forced him to change his plans, and just wait for the right time?

Maybe we will find out in the TV series

[En Sabah Poo]

Yes. He was an archangel. He was God's greatest angel.

And then he said, Fuck God, I want more. Just like Anakin. That little bitch.

[En Sabah Poo]

I have to agree that it was implied that he was Anakin's father. But how could he have been monitored since it was said that the Republic had no intrests in Tatooine?? Also how could he have manipulated Qui Gonn and Obi Wan to end up there??

That being said...it is possible that this is the case, and Palpatine had planned on coming and getting Anakin to train him in the ways of the Sith, but when Qui Gonn, Obi Wan, the driods, and Padame ended up there unexpectantly it forced him to change his plans, and just wait for the right time?

Maybe we will find out in the TV series

Hmmm. Maybe I am reading too much into this. But remember in Episode 1, at the end, when Palpatine said to child Anakin, "we will watch your career with great interest". Was that implying he knew about Anakin all along then? Why would he even care about a young kid padawan, unless it was just thrown in there to be a fanboy moment.

[adamgreenberger]

Of course, there was a theory going around about Qui Gon manipulating midichlorians to create Luke and imparted part of himself into him which would go a long way to explain a lot of things.

I hadn't heard that...can you explain more?? Since Qui Gon was dead. Or was this because of what Yoda said at the end of the movie? And Qui gon did this from beyond the grave?

[McAfee]

Hmmm. Maybe I am reading too much into this. But remember in Episode 1, at the end, when Palpatine said to child Anakin, "we will watch your career with great interest". Was that implying he knew about Anakin all along then? Why would he even care about a young kid padawan, unless it was just thrown in there to be a fanboy moment.

I think that was the beginning of their "companionship".

[adamgreenberger]

Hmmm. Maybe I am reading too much into this. But remember in Episode 1, at the end, when Palpatine said to child Anakin, "we will watch your career with great interest". Was that implying he knew about Anakin all along then? Why would he even care about a young kid padawan, unless it was just thrown in there to be a fanboy moment.


Before this...I just thought that this was something that was said becasue he knew what the Jedi thought of Anakin, and becasue he had just saved Naboo...but after Ep 3...I have to agree that he knew who Anakin was already.

[Wagon]

I took much of what Palpatine told Anakin as lies. The whole "Sith can save life" thing was a total sham, I felt. Palpatine just knew he was having those visions, and siezed on the opportunity, telling him exactly what he wanted to hear.

that's how I read it, too...

[TheGibson]

I think the YODA to OBI-WAN talk (about QUI-GON) was there basically to explain that in the new movies, there were no glowing "ghost" people to talk to. Remember in the OT, OBI would appear to Luke? Luke would "commune" with him?

I think this is was YODA was getting at, making the transition. It could also be seen as "living forever," which would mean that only the Jedi have that ability, not the Sith.

Also, WHO THE HELL ARE OWEN AND BERU?!?

My wife and I talked about this one, and I'm guessing that we just missed something in the first two movies, cause Luke calls them AUNT AND UNCLE, but ANAKIN had no siblings! Not really aunt and uncle? OK, but YODA said that Luke had to go to family... who are they and how are they related to Luke??

[AAlgar]

I think the YODA to OBI-WAN talk (about QUI-GON) was there basicall to explain that in the new movies, there were no glowing people to talk to. Remember in the OT, OBI would appear to Luke? Luke would "commune" with him?

I think this is was YODA was getting at, making the transition. It could also be seen as "living forever," which would mean that only the Jedi have that ability, not the Sith.

Also, WHO THE HELL ARE OWEN AND BERU?!?

My wife and I talked about this one, and I'm guessing that we just missed something in the first two movies, cause Luke calls them AUNT AND UNCLE, but ANAKIN had no siblings! Not really aunt and uncle? OK, but YODA said that Luke had to go to family... who are they and how are they related to Luke??

Wow, you need to watch episode 2 again. They were in it for about 15 minutes.

[En Sabah Poo]

I think the YODA to OBI-WAN talk (about QUI-GON) was there basicall to explain that in the new movies, there were no glowing people to talk to. Remember in the OT, OBI would appear to Luke? Luke would "commune" with him?

I think this is was YODA was getting at, making the transition. It could also be seen as "living forever," which would mean that only the Jedi have that ability, not the Sith.

Also, WHO THE HELL ARE OWEN AND BERU?!?

My wife and I talked about this one, and I'm guessing that we just missed something in the first two movies, cause Luke calls them AUNT AND UNCLE, but ANAKIN had no siblings! Not really aunt and uncle? OK, but YODA said that Luke had to go to family... who are they and how are they related to Luke??

Owen is Anakins step brother. Beru is his wife.

[Gregory]

[never mind]

[Taxman]

Also, WHO THE HELL ARE OWEN AND BERU?!?



They turned up in Episode II. Owen is the son of Clieg Lars who married Anakin's mother, so they are step-borthers.

[En Sabah Poo]

[never mind]

I don' think they were related to Shmi. I think Owen was born before Shmi married Cleg Lars.

[Mick]

I the Vanity Fair interview from a couple of months ago, Lucas said the Anakin was concieved by the Force, that he was a true immaculate conception, and a demi-god. Of course, I am sure he is free to change his mind on this later.

He already has. If you read the newest Rolling Stone, he explains that he "leaves it up to the viewer" to decide if Anakin was created by a Sith lord's manipulation of the Force, the midichlorians, or the Force itself. To me, it seems that, since the whole story with Plagueis (or whatever the hell his name is) was the only real explanation offered in the movie, that's the one I would go with. It kind of adds some cool layers-- the Sith know about the Jedi prophecy, so they create this powerful being whom they have foreseen that they can subvert to their cause, yadda yadda yadda... I like it.

[TheGibson]

Oh that's right. I knew it was in there, I just must have wiped the damn movie from my mind. Can't remember a damn thing. Step brother... got it.

You guys were all over that one, thanks.

[TheGibson]

Still, Yoda telling Obi-Wan he could commune with Qui-Gon was just to explain the "ghosts" in the old trilogy.

[En Sabah Poo]

Still, Yoda telling Obi-Wan he could commune with Qui-Gon was just to explain the "ghosts" in the old trilogy.
Yup. Definitely. I don't think Qui Gon has anything to do with Plagius or the Sith.

[aj110]

i dig the qui-gon/luke theory.

[Gregory]

I don' think they were related to Shmi. I think Owen was born before Shmi married Cleg Lars.

That's what I meant to say. Yeah, Owen was there before Shmi.

[AAlgar]

Of course, there was a theory going around about Qui Gon manipulating midichlorians to create Luke and imparted part of himself into him which would go a long way to explain a lot of things.

W...hat? Where the hell does that come from?

[Cth]

I hadn't heard that...can you explain more?? Since Qui Gon was dead. Or was this because of what Yoda said at the end of the movie? And Qui gon did this from beyond the grave?

Btw, some have said Palpatine was sending Anakin those dreams.. how else would he know about their contents?

As for the Qui Gon theory some had..

Since he knew how to live after death, and likely dabbled in the knowledge of the Dark Side, some have speculated that he (or some from beyond -- read: in the Force) could influence things to happening.

Kinda like how Obi Wan was able to "guide" Luke into destroying the Death Star when they should have had no chance of doing so.

At one point, Qui Gon was supposed to conference with Yoda and Obi Wan and make a cryptic statement about seeing them soon. The next scene would have been Luke and Leia being born.

Earlier setup for this was when Padme and Anakin were talking about their child.. Anakin having a dream that it would be a girl and discussing possible names, one of which was Leia. He didn't forsee twins, in other words.

Anyways, the reason it was popular at the time, was that it'd explain why Luke was able to take to the Force so quickly and master it. It'd explain why Luke had no memory of his mother (since he was a Force Being) as well.

It also kept with the theme of Qui Gon going against the council's wishes and doing what he thought was right.

Just a theory at one point.. there's no way they could have done all of this in the time allowed though.

(Of course, at one point, Grevious was rumored to have been a partially resurrected Darth Maul -- until the EU closed that door on that one)

[Taxman]

Btw, some have said Palpatine was sending Anakin those dreams.. how else would he know about their contents?


I just figured that he was so strong with the dark side that he could read Anakin's passions.

[AAlgar]

Btw, some have said Palpatine was sending Anakin those dreams.. how else would he know about their contents?

As for the Qui Gon theory some had..

Since he knew how to live after death, and likely dabbled in the knowledge of the Dark Side, some have speculated that he (or some from beyond -- read: in the Force) could influence things to happening.

Kinda like how Obi Wan was able to "guide" Luke into destroying the Death Star when they should have had no chance of doing so.

At one point, Qui Gon was supposed to conference with Yoda and Obi Wan and make a cryptic statement about seeing them soon. The next scene would have been Luke and Leia being born.

Earlier setup for this was when Padme and Anakin were talking about their child.. Anakin having a dream that it would be a girl and discussing possible names, one of which was Leia. He didn't forsee twins, in other words.

Anyways, the reason it was popular at the time, was that it'd explain why Luke was able to take to the Force so quickly and master it. It'd explain why Luke had no memory of his mother (since he was a Force Being) as well.

It also kept with the theme of Qui Gon going against the council's wishes and doing what he thought was right.

Just a theory at one point.. there's no way they could have done all of this in the time allowed though.

(Of course, at one point, Grevious was rumored to have been a partially resurrected Darth Maul -- until the EU closed that door on that one)

I think this is a horrible, horrible theory.

[gwyllgi]

I sort of like the theory that anakin DID bring balance to the force... since at the end of the movie there are two siths and two jedi left. That's balance.

Also, that the whole Padme dying would never have happened had he not turned to the darkside. His mistake was trying to save her. If he'd have just left it alone they would have gotten through it. But she gave up the will to live after all that he'd done.

That sits right with me, and I agree about the Plagius and Palpatine deal- Plagius being his master, and calling the mitochlorians to create life- anakin.

[En Sabah Poo]

I sort of like the theory that anakin DID bring balance to the force... since at the end of the movie there are two siths and two jedi left. That's balance.

Also, that the whole Padme dying would never have happened had he not turned to the darkside. His mistake was trying to save her. If he'd have just left it alone they would have gotten through it. But she gave up the will to live after all that he'd done.

That sits right with me, and I agree about the Plagius and Palpatine deal- Plagius being his master, and calling the mitochlorians to create life- anakin.

I agree with all that stuff, except the balance part. As Lucas himself has said killing Sith is what brings balance to the universe, as they inherently unbalance the force, while the Jedi live in balance with it.

When Yoda said in ROTS that the prophecy may have been misread, I think that means that they figured Anakin would kill the Sith and all the jedi would still live, not that he would kill all the Jedi and THEN kill the Sith (as he did in ROTJ).

[AAlgar]

I sort of like the theory that anakin DID bring balance to the force... since at the end of the movie there are two siths and two jedi left. That's balance.

Also, that the whole Padme dying would never have happened had he not turned to the darkside. His mistake was trying to save her. If he'd have just left it alone they would have gotten through it. But she gave up the will to live after all that he'd done.

That sits right with me, and I agree about the Plagius and Palpatine deal- Plagius being his master, and calling the mitochlorians to create life- anakin.

And this is why I like you. You're not trying to make things more complicated than they appeared to be. :p

[V-Man]

My Uncle thought that Grevious was Darth Sidious' Master whom (he thought) did not really die. I thought that was funny.

[Captain Nate]

I miss Qui-Gon. He was one of my favorite Jedi. I thought he was cool when I saw Episode I.

[gwyllgi]

And this is why I like you. You're not trying to make things more complicated than they appeared to be. :p

Well, I got the theory from someone no longer on this board. He's cool like that.

the Sith unbalance the force than so do the JEdi. You cannot have all good. That is not balance. Equality is true balance. To have a light and appreciate it there MUST be shadow, somewhere.

Lucas is senile. ^^

[Captain Nate]

I think that people are taking "balance" too literally. It's clear that the Jedi see balance as a peaceful co-existance with the force, but the Sith create imbalance by promoting war, hate and violence, which is why their connection to the force was waning: the increasing presence of the Sith was unbalancing the peaceful nature of the force.

Or, something.

[Cth]

This is why I liked the EU comic DARK EMPIRE..

If there's supposed to be balance.. Luke won't be it, unless he learns some of the dark side..

[RegularJoe]

I think the YODA to OBI-WAN talk (about QUI-GON) was there basically to explain that in the new movies, there were no glowing "ghost" people to talk to. Remember in the OT, OBI would appear to Luke? Luke would "commune" with him?

I think this is was YODA was getting at, making the transition. It could also be seen as "living forever," which would mean that only the Jedi have that ability, not the Sith.

Also, WHO THE HELL ARE OWEN AND BERU?!?

My wife and I talked about this one, and I'm guessing that we just missed something in the first two movies, cause Luke calls them AUNT AND UNCLE, but ANAKIN had no siblings! Not really aunt and uncle? OK, but YODA said that Luke had to go to family... who are they and how are they related to Luke??

re-watch ep II. it's explained. owen is the son (step-son?) that shmi had with klieg lars when he married her out of slavery.

[RegularJoe]

luke took the force differently than anakin 'cause of necessity and character. anakin was raised in a somewhat hateful, repressive environment and suffered horrific loss when he was too young to process it. luke was raised in a slightly repressive, but more protective, environment that, if not loving, wasn't hateful. and when he suffered his loss, it was at a later age.

[AAlgar]

luke took the force differently than anakin 'cause of necessity and character. anakin was raised in a somewhat hateful, repressive environment and suffered horrific loss when he was too young to process it. luke was raised in a slightly repressive, but more protective, environment that, if not loving, wasn't hateful. and when he suffered his loss, it was at a later age.

Not sure I agree.

Anakin was raised in the Republic, surrounded by fellow Jedi.

Luke was raised in the Empire, basically alone.

[Captain Nate]

Not sure I agree.

Anakin was raised in the Republic, surrounded by fellow Jedi.

Luke was raised in the Empire, basically alone.

Yeah, but Anakin was deprived in order to persue his Jedi training. He was taken from his mother, had to hide his love for Padme, felt like he was constantly being mistreated by his peers.

Luke surrounded himself with loved ones and had a righteous cause in which he became a hero and was praised for constantly.

Very different situations, imho.

[En Sabah Poo]

Not sure I agree.

Anakin was raised in the Republic, surrounded by fellow Jedi.

Luke was raised in the Empire, basically alone.

Well, Anakin was taken from his mother when he was 8 after being raised as a slave. Luke was raised by loving family, thinking his father was a hero. THEN, Luke fell into the company of a wise Obi Wan and became a member of a movement that loved him, while Anakin became a Jedi around those who doubted and mistrusted him. Anakin's environment was quite different than Luke's.

[PeterSparker]

I just want to say I give this thread a five star rating, its the best one I've read yet. You nerds are alright. :)

and reading this just made me think how cool it is that it can finally be discussed as a whole. That is really fucking cool! And I know, I know, believe me I know these prequals have thier problems. We all know the drill, and it sucks in a large respect that I and II aren't better. .....But the point is, I was liking this thread :)


thanks for sharing this little moment together all, but I have to go watch 24!......

[Taxman]

I think that people are taking "balance" too literally. It's clear that the Jedi see balance as a peaceful co-existance with the force, but the Sith create imbalance by promoting war, hate and violence, which is why their connection to the force was waning: the increasing presence of the Sith was unbalancing the peaceful nature of the force.

Or, something.

In the novelization of the film, Yoda discusses the fact that 1,000 years of having 10,000 Jedi and two Sith may well represent an imbalance in the force. Prophecies are always difficult to interpret.

[AAlgar]

You guys make valid points. And I, too, am amazed that we're debating this stuff so civilly and intelligently.

[Grayhaven05]

In the 'Making of Star Wars', one eventually cut piece of dialogue is as follows:

Darth Sidious: I have waited all these years for you to fulfill your destiny...I arranged for your conception. I used the power of the Force to will the midichlorians to start the cell divisions that created you."

Anakin: I don't believe you.

Darth Sidious: Ahh, but you know it's true. When you clear your mind, you will sense the truth. You could almost think of me as your father.

Obviously, this was cut out. (Don't know if it was filmed or not, either as it isn't in the book. But I still think that since Lucas went as far to script it, his intention was to at least imply that Sidious was responsible for Anakin's 'creation', and more.

[Lord Jermaine Retail]

(I didn't see this come up in any of the ROTS threads that I actually managed to go through (and there's a gazillion), but I'm sure if it has already come up someone will post a link followed by that rolls eyes emoticon. Also, please excuse any spelling mistakes on Star Wars names)

SPOILERS BELOW:



During Anakin and Palpatine's conversation during the opera, Palpatine mentioned in the legend of the Sith that his mentor was even able to create life. Given that Palpatine supposedly learned everything from his mentor before he disposed of him and Anakin's "messianic" birth, is it possible that Palpatine used his powers to produce Anakin by "emmaculate conception" on Tatooine, born a slave so he would have been easily monitored and manipulated to become not only a powerful jedi but have the seeds sown for him to become a Sith Lord?

Just a stupid theory. And please don't crowd this thread with Palpatine porn jokes. I've got a headache already trying to type all that out without making it an obvious gag for someone else.
I came to the same conclusion while watching the movie. As did some others in my party. I did that because that is what the movie comes out and tells you. First this force powerful kid is born and the film makes it a point to tell us that there is literally no father. I think most people forget that detail in Ep1. Then two movies later this guy tells the story of a powerful Sith who is powerful and knowledgeable enough to create life out of midichlorians. Oh, and he knows the stuff that guy knew before he unfortunately died under unknown circumstances. That was pretty direct to me. My friend cannot accept this if he is going to continue to enjoy Star Wars and hopes this is not the case. You have to admit its strange to introduce the whole full of midichlorians/no father thing then later talk about making life out of midichlorians if those two things are unrelated. I hate the whole idea of midichlorians as much as I hae typing the word. What happened to studying hard and being disciplined to be a Jedi? You gotta have bacteria in you too?

[Cth]

Posted elsewhere:



Palpatine hasn't actually told either Anakin or damn near ANYONE else the truth about ANYTHING, save for the time he told Padme that Valorum was bogged down in baseless accusations in TPM. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything truthful he's told anyone else in the movies. His M.O. is to tell lies so beautiful that people just believe them.

If he created Anakin, why strand him on a planet, wait for a Jedi to stumble upon that planet and find him, raise him as a Jedi, then set up his mother dying, then wait to pluck him from the Jedi and turn him against them? If he created him--why not raise him as Sith from the get go? Why not teach him everything and mold him as perfectly as he can instead of accepting damaged goods?

Ian McDiarmid himself has said the idea was brought up, but then discarded because yet ANOTHER father/son revelation in this saga would be considered "Boring."

Anakin himself, when told about his proper heritage, has ZERO reaction to it, and the editing of the scene doesn't follow typical dramatic conventions that are NEEDED to give knowledge to an audience.

http://www.pixpond.com/may/palp.jpg


And later, according to the novel..



Palpatine then mutters something along the lines of "Well, Plageius never actually taught me this technique, but i'm sure together, we can find out". i have since wondered why Anakin didn't cut him right then and there, since he practically admitted he lied to him.


Either way, sure an early script might have had that, but early scripts also had Han Solo and Obi-Wan mixed into one character, etc. So, I don't put much faith in early scripts.

More of Palpatine's lies:


The Jedi don't trust you -- The Jedi don't necessarily distrust Anakin himself, they distrust Palpatine's INFLUENCE on Anakin.

I forsee you becoming the greatest of all Jedi -- He forsees him becoming his SITH APPRENTICE and killing jedi.

Leave him, we'll never make it with him -- Actually, I just want you to feel responsible for your masters death. We can obviously make it with him, no problem.

The Jedi want to take over -- The jedi want to REPLACE me with someone else, because they can tell there's something VERY wrong with me.

I can create life -- Actually, I can't, my master said he could, but I'm sure you and I could figure it out eventually.

I can save your wife -- I've been trying to KILL your wife since Naboo.

You killed your wife -- His force choke didn't kill her, she essentially committed emotional suicide (and that is PRETTY shaky when you put it like that)




http://www.vanityfair.com/commentary/content/articles/050131roco03?page=2 (http://www.vanityfair.com/commentary/content/articles/050131roco03?page=2)

When we spoke, Lucas expanded on the notion of Anakin's divine origin. (Warning: The following may or may not be helpful to the uninitiated.) "It was a virgin birth in an ecosystem of symbiotic relationships. It means that between the Force, which is sort of a life force, and reality, the connectors between these two things are what we call mitichlorians. They're kind of based on mitochondria, which are a completely different species, a different animal, that live inside every single cell and allow it to live, allow it to reproduce, allow life to exist. They also, in their own way, communicate with the Force itself. The more you have, the more your cells are able to speak intuitively to the Force itself and use the powers of the Force. Ultimately, I would say the Force itself created Anakin. I don't want to get into specific terms of labeling things to make it one religion or another, but, basically, that's one of the foundations of the hero's journey."


Besides, the whole point of Palpatine being a figurative father figure, is to fill the void left by his mother, and being something the Jedi cannot provide (although later he says Obi Wan is like a father to him -- later, his brother?!)

If Palpatine could do these things, why stop at creating one?

Anyways, we'll find out with the eventual DVD commentary I'm sure..

And then once again, when it's re-released when he changes his mind ;)

Interesting how Obi-Wan also does the white lie thing throughout the series, too..

[bartleby]

I took much of what Palpatine told Anakin as lies. The whole "Sith can save life" thing was a total sham, I felt. Palpatine just knew he was having those visions, and siezed on the opportunity, telling him exactly what he wanted to hear.


I wonder if it was something more than Palpatine just knowing that Anakin was having those dreams. Is it possible that as a Sith Lord he could use the powers of the Dark Side to implant those dreams in Anakin's head? I like the idea that it was Vader's death choke that caused Padme's death and that had Anakin not turned to the Dark Side, she wouldn't have been in mortal danger.

[mattbrand]

If Palpatine could do these things, why stop at creating one?

One possible reason is that Sith Lords only come in twos...a master and an apprentice. So Palpatine would not want to create more than one, because he would not be able to control the impact of the others.

Also, related to that is that more powerful siths in the universe would result in more threats to his power. Many times in Sith history, the apprentice kills the master to assume the master position. So if there are more dark warriors out there, there are more chances that Palpatine will be in danger from them.

[Garra]

This is why I liked the EU comic DARK EMPIRE..

If there's supposed to be balance.. Luke won't be it, unless he learns some of the dark side..

Didnt Luke later in the novels do just that and willingly become the Emporers apprentice?

Also got a question for all the knowledgable out there. Plagius/Plageius/Plageis (seen it spelled all 3 ways) is there a novel or some source material I can read up more so on him? Comics, novel, anything to learn more about him and possibly when the Emp was his apprentice by chance?

[Lord Jermaine Retail]

Yes, I understood Palpatine to be lying, but he mixes it up so you can't tell what's real and what's not. Clearly the Sith don't keep people from dying, but that is what Anakin had to head in order to get with the program. If Anakin wanted to make a better sandwich for Padme, Palpatine would have said "You know, there are ways to make a better sandwich, Anakin. But you can't learn how from a Jedi." I'm just unclear as to why that whole scene happened in such an ambiguous way (while watching a giant egg get fertilized, look at the background again and tell me that's not what that is). From what Palpatine says I understood it as him subtly telling the audience that Anakin was manufactured through force manipulations. Either the force made him on its own or someone manipulated the force to do it (and conveniently talks about that thing in the movie).

[Cth]

Good catch on the background "ballet" scene.. very symbolic..

But yeah, according to Lucas, he spells it out as being born by the Force spontaneously without outside influence.

It's one of those things that Lucas purposely left ambigous which causes fans to discuss the film for the next 20 years (remember people wondering if Obi-Wan meant he was a clone?)

That's what I like about Star Wars, is that there's a bunch of stuff that is mysterious that fans can fill in their own story/theory about. This is why I think all the characters wearing helmets tended to be more popular (Vader, Stormtroopers, Fett, etc) and also why some didn't like the prequels (because they offer a different story that's canon that is contrary to what they thought)

After twenty years of speculation, there's no way Lucas could live up to what some fans built up in their minds.

[TheGibson]

The Egg. Good eye.

Never would have even guessed... I was all "look at the pretty things with the long tails penetrating that huge sphere again and again...ohhhhhh"

But that's why I'm me and you're you I guess.

[Lord Jermaine Retail]

The Egg. Good eye.

Never would have even guessed... I was all "look at the pretty things with the long tails penetrating that huge sphere again and again...ohhhhhh"

But that's why I'm me and you're you I guess.
Dude, I didn't WANT to see that. Believe me. But that's what that was.