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View Full Version : Sara's Entertainment Xtreme! Screwed; The Bret Hart/Survivor Series Story



XSaraXPoeX
05-22-2005, 03:42 PM
The Survivor Series Screwjob! What happened?
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Good guys rarely fought good guys. But due to a contract dispute, a member of the WWF tag-team champions, Bret "The Hitman" Hart, was going to be leaving the federation. He had been asked to wear a western outfit and come to the ring as a Canadian cowboy.
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So this two-out-of-three falls match held at a house show in Anytown, USA would see the tag-team titles switch hands. The Hart Foundation would lose to The Rockers. At he end of the third fall the announcement was made, the Rockers were champs and everyone went on with their lives.
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Then contract negotiations between Hart and the WWF cleared up, and the fed used an event during the match (The top rope had come off the turnbuckle during the second fall.) to reverse the decision and return the belts to the Hart Foundation.

Rocker member Shawn Michaels, whom many considered the best young talent in the business and who no less than Ric Flair called "The future of wrestling," was tired of it all. Tired of tag-team wrestling. Tired of a partner that put more emphasis on partying than wrestling. Tired of waiting. So he went to the big man himself. Owner of the then WWF, Vince McMahon, and asked, "What do I have to do?"

Shawn wanted more and was asking straight up what he had to do to get it. Vince answered, "You just did it."

Meanwhile, co WWF tag-team champion Bret Hart silently waited. People were saying that he was the best scientific wrestler in the world. He knew his turn would come.

Shawn's turn came with shattered glass. On an episode of WWF Superstars, in an act now famous in wrestling history, he turned on his partner Marty Janetty during a Brutus' Barber Shop segment and threw him through a glass window.

Bret Hart was enjoying a run as Intercontinental champion.

In mid-1992, WWF champion Ric Flair was told by Vince McMahon that he would not be renewing Flair's contract because Vince "couldn't figure out what to do with him." Flair suggested dropping the WWF title to Bret Hart. He also suggested to Vince that Bret drop the title eventually to Shawn Michaels. Shawn was a young version of himself and he thought the WWF would prosper with him as champion.

Flair and Shawn had, a few months earlier, a match on WWF Superstars that people were calling the match of the year.

At another house show near the end of the year, Flair was defeated by Bret and lost the WWF title. In November of that year, at the Survivor Series, Bret defended the belt against new Intercontinental champion Shawn Michaels and retained the title.

Two years pass. Wrestlemania 10 was the decade long cumulating of the birth of Sports Entertainment. The plan was for Bret Hart to emerge as champion, carried on the back of all the WWF superstars, and lead the federation into a New Generation. The next day all every wrestling fan could talk about was one thing...
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...Shawn Michael's Intercontinental Ladder Match at Wrestlemania 10 with Razor Ramone.
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Prior to 10, the best Wrestlemania match ever was considered to be the IC match at W3 pitting champ Randy Savage against Ricky Steamboat. The ladder match at 10 was considered better. All eyes began to look toward Shawn Michaels as a future WWF champion. And he knew it.

While Bret was having quality match after quality match, Shawn began having problems. Even though Bret was champ, Shawn was still the most popular. Along with his friends Diesel (Kevin Nash) and Razor Ramone (Scott Hall) two other VERY popular superstars, they made the WWF locker room a very hard place to be.
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Shawn was suspended, brought back, refused to job the IC title to Dean Douglas (Afterthought, when Shawn refused to job to Douglas, Vince made him hand the title over at a ppv. Later on the ppv Douglas wrestles Razor Ramone for the title and Razor intentionally makes him look like a fool in the ring for his buddy Shawn.) Suspended again, and generally caused all sort of chaos. And the fans loved him for it.
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Finally, at Wrestlemania 12, in a sixty minute Ironman match that was an incredible sight to behold, Bret dropped the title to Shawn.
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Hart's contract had run out and after over ten years in the ring he wanted to take a break and spend time with his family. The plan was for Bret to return at the Survivor Series in November, work his way up to a return match at Wrestlemania 13, and regain the title from Shawn. But several events happened that changed things.

Event one; Bret's spot was taken by a returning former WWF Superstar that had tons of drawing power. The Ultimate Warrior. Even though the Warrior was gone in only a few months, his ego took the WWF locker room by storm. He was the ultimate Id-boy. Shawn went on the defensive. He knew Warrior wanted his title and took it personally.

Event two; The WWF's chief rival, WCW, offered Shawn and his friends Kevin Nash and Scott Hall a million dollar a year contract for three years if they jumped to WCW. Hall and Nash accepted, Shawn was given the WWF title and stayed.

Event three; At a Madison Square Garden card, with Nash and Hall leaving the company, they, along with Shawn and their friend HHH, approached Vince with the suggestion that after the main event of the night (Shawn would be successfully defending the WWF title against former champion Nash.)
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The four superstars (HHH had defeated Hall earlier on the card.) would break kayfabe and go out to the ring together for one last goodbye to the fans.
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Vince agreed and allowed it to happen. This made Shawn see how much power he really had in the WWF and, along with the Warrior situation, made him even more defensive.

Event four; Bret was offered a seven million dollar three year contract by WCW but turned it down because Vince, trying to compete with WCW, offered Bret a lifetime, 20 million over 20 years, contract. Bret stayed with the WWF out of loyalty and long-term security.

In the state of mind Shawn was in, especially since losing his back-up of Hall and Nash, his biggest rival being given the most lucrative contract of all time was an upsetting blow. Jealousy hit hard.
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Event five; One of the most famous phrase's in wrestling history was first spoken by a nearly forgotten wrestler that no one believed had a future. "Austin 3:16 says I just whooped your ass!" The era of Stone Cold was beginning.
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Event six; Since Bret's return, Shawn had been instructed to mention him whenever possible for a slow build up to their rematch. Shawn, out of jealousy most likely, decided to take it as far as he could. This led to an actual fistfight between the two in the WWF locker room. Shawn was badly outmatched and Bret came up the victor.

Event seven; Rival promotion WCW was doing everything in their power to drive the WWF out of business. WCW put their show, Monday Nitro, on opposite RAW and made it two hours against RAW's one hour. Every time the WWF would change RAW's time-slot so the two shows weren't in direct competition, WCW would change their time-slot so they were.

RAW was called a live show but it was actually taped every other week. On those taped weeks, WCW would give away the outcome of WWF's "live" matches. WCW also did what was before considered unthinkable. They paid a wrestler, WWF woman's champ Madusa, to come on their show and toss the WWF woman's title in a trashcan. She was then given a fat multi-year contract.

The WWF had lost more than twenty million dollars in the last year and was set to lose a lot more. On top of all that, and the recent steroid trial of Vince McMahon, the WWF was hurting badly.

After event number six, Shawn refuse to put Bret over. He would wrestle him, but would not let Bret have a pin fall victory.
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The original plan was to have a controversial Royal Rumble finish, which would lead to a fatal four-way match to determine the number one contender for Wrestlemania. With Shawn refusing to lose to Bret, the plans had to be changed. Shawn was told he would have to relinquish the title on a live episode of WWE Monday Night RAW.

In a heartfelt (But phony.) speech that this wrestling fan marked out for BIG TIME, Shawn told of how he had lost his smile and needed to get it back again. He claimed that a knee injury would keep him out of action for months if not forever. He thanked Vince, handed him the belt, and walked away from the WWF.

Bret won the title in that aforementioned fatal four-way match, lost it the next night to Sid Vicious, (He was taken out of the Wrestlemania main event because of rising popularity of Stone Cold and WWF officials thinking the two would have a better match. They did.) Then won it back a few months later from The Undertaker at that years Summer Slam with a returning Shawn Michaels as the special referee.
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With Bret as champion again, WWF ratings slumped. Wrestlers were complaining because sometimes they barely made enough to cover travel expenses. WCW and their nWo were taking wrestling by storm and it was only a matter of time before the WWF would be considered a minor promotion and lose all its credibility.

A federation is only as good as it's champion. Bret was one of the best mat men in the business, but without the drawing power to back him up Vince knew he could never defeat WCW with Bret as champion. He also saw that Bret was having a hard time dealing with the new, edgier direction the WWF was taking. Bret's promos made it clear that he didn't agree with the way fans admired Shawn and Stone Cold.

Vince decided to take action. He called for two meetings. The first meeting was with all the WWF's on-air workers. He told them that he thought perhaps time had passed him by and gave them more creative freedom over their character's development. Gone were the blue blood Hunter Hearst Helmsley and the singing cowboy JJ. In their place were HHH and a more up to date Jeff Jarrett and others.
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The second meeting was with Bret Hart. Vince laid out what was happening with the Monday Night Wars (As they would soon come to be called.) and WCW. He told him that he couldn't honor their contract. He believed that Bret should take a lesser role with the company for the foreseeable future and wanted to renegotiate their deal.

Bret, in no uncertain terms, said "No."
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"Bret Hart; Wrestling with Shadows," a Discovery Channel special, chronicles what happened next pretty well from Bret's point of view. WWE's Confidential (See vid download below...) shows the WWF side of things. Both sides tell the truth from their perspective of things. Putting the two together should make things clear for everyone without calling anyone the bad guy.

Bret accepted WCW's seven million dollar three year contract and was set to start with the company in December. But there was a problem. Bret was WWF champion. In all the years of professional wrestling history, no wrestler has outright disrespected a federation's world title (Not till Madusa did it to the WWF woman's title on Nitro.) unless it was part of a planned storyline.

When a champion was leaving a territory or company in general, he would lose the title in a match so the company could keep up the prestige their title had. For a feds current world champion to appear for another company was unheard of and could possibly do a lot of damage to the feds world title.

WCW had already paid Madusa to drop their title in a trashcan so Vince knew they weren't against asking Bret to do the same thing. So Vince decided that Bret should drop the belt at the upcoming Survivor Series ppv to the WWF's most popular wrestler, Shawn Michaels.

Okay, lets get a couple things straight. Question; Would Bret Hart have taken the WWF title to WCW and trashed it on live TV?

Probably not.

Question; what did Bret want to happen with the title situation?

Bret did NOT want to lose the title at all. He's stated afterward that he suggested losing it to Stone Cold but didn't say it till years later and Austin said he had not heard that story. Bret wanted to leave the WWF as WWF champion so his legacy would be just that. THE undefeated WWF champion in WCW.

No one can blame Bret for not wanting to lose the Belt to his hated rival Shawn Michaels. (In his home country of Canada, no less.) But in both "Wrestling with Shadows" and the WWE Confidential below, Bret states ON-CAMERA that he would "hand over" the title the night after Survivor Series on live RAW.

He wouldn't lose the title; he would surrender it without being beaten. That would have given him a fine legacy. At the same time, a drowning WWF might have been destroyed by the act.

Vince met with Shawn and Jerald Brisco the night before the match. Bret had stated he would NOT lose the title to Shawn. The three came up with several alternate endings to the match. Brisco taught Shawn some simple self-defense holds in case they had to take drastic actions forcing Shawn to defend himself against Bret.

The next day, Survivor series, Bret showed up hours late. Not long before the ppv started. He went to Vince's office and restated that he would not be losing to Shawn, but would abandon it the next night on RAW.

The plan was set in motion.

From what we've been told, only Vince, Shawn and Jerald Brisco knew what was about to happen. Referee Earl Hebner was informed 10 minutes before match time and agreed to it. (Funny thing is that Hebner's 10 minutes were not only spent having a private meeting with Vince, but also going over the match with Bret and Shawn and arranging for a car to be ready and waiting for him at the entrance to the arena.)

I would suggest others knew. Sergeant Slaughter was there and ready after the match. If he didn't know then he sure was quick to catch on. The Undertaker was the locker room leader at the time. It would be insane not to bring him in if just for crowd control reasons. Rumors have surfaced that Pat Patterson laid out the ending. Shawn was hanging out with HHH and Chyna at that time.

Another rumor is that due to how fast WCW tried to capitalize on it, that Shawn had called Kevin Nash and told him what was going to happen.

Linda McMahon must have known, although she and the others rumored to be involved have always said they weren't in on it.
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The arena was unusually quiet before the show. Normally Vince was everywhere making sure things were going as planned, but that night Vince mostly stayed in his office area.

The match itself was almost entirely one sided. Shawn put up little offence against the Hitman. Bret later remarked about the oddness in this. The original plan had been for Shawn to lock Bret in his own finishing move, the Sharpshooter, and as Bret was breaking out of it, Owen Hart, Dave boy Smith, HHH and Chyna would rush the ring and it would end in a double count-out.

Near the end of the match Bret saw Vince and Brisco come out to the ring. He didn't know why they were there but started to suspect something was wrong. Shawn took control and put Bret in the sharpshooter. Bret reached for Shawn's leg and...

...heard the bell ring.
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Vince had yelled to Earl Hebner, "Ring the bell," then yelled for the timekeeper to do it at the same time Earl called for it.
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Shawn played it off well. Handed the belt, he made it look like HE was the one that had been screwed. Backstage he even threw the belt across the dressing room and yelled, "No way am I taking his fucking belt this way."
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The backstage area was in stunned silence for several minutes. Owen and Davey had joined Bret in the ring. Bret knew right away what had happened. He stood up and spit right in Vince's eye. Then climbed out of the ring and destroyed a rumored fifty thousand dollars in video equipment. He climbed back into the ring and, without knowing the cameras were no longer live, motioned the letters W-C-W with is hand.

When reality set in backstage, no one could believe it had happened. Wrestling wasn't supposed to be real but this was more real than it had ever been.
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Let me interrupt for a second with two thoughts. First, this same thing had happened before in the WWF. In the 1980s when Wendi Rictor was woman's champion, contract negotiations broke down between her and Vince and Vince had the Faboulas Moolah, dressed in a mask, go to the ring and actually pin Rictor and win the title. Rictor walked out and has never been back.

Two, some people say that this whole Screwjob thing was a work. (In wrestling lingo, work = fake, and shoot = real.) The rumor is that Vince and Bret had it planned all along. That Bret would go to WCW, do as much damage to their show as possible, win their world title and then return to the WWF as the triumphant hero. But there's a HUGE problem with that scenario.

The WWF didn't have the three years they would have to wait for Bret's contract to run out. They were in immediate danger. The WWF needed something FAST or within the next year they would have to declare bankruptcy. It's ludicrous to even consider that this as a work so just STOP IT!

After the match there were a lot of very angry workers backstage. Many said that they were quitting the company because "you just don't do that to a guy like Bret." (The only person that actually didn't show up on RAW the next night other than the Hart Foundation was Mick Foley, by the way. The wrestlers knew that Bret was going to have seven million dollars coming to him and if they quit they would get nothing till their contracts eventually ran out.)

In the locker room Bret asked Shawn if he had been involved and Shawn denied knowing anything. (He later admitted that he knew all along.) Vince showed up and wanted to talk to Bret. Bret told him that if he was still in the locker room after he got out of the shower that he was going to punch him right in the face. Vince was still there when Bret got out so Bret punched him in the face.

A lot of bad things have happened to Bret since the screw job but looking at just this event you have to say that Bret was wrong by refusing to drop the title.

Vince was also wrong in suggesting that Bret drop the belt to Shawn in the first place. He should have picked another wrestler from the beginning and Bret might have been more agreeable.

Shawn was an admitted asshole. His ego got far too big and he gave in to it.
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There are no heroes in this. There aren't any villains either really. Everyone had a part in it and no one can be blamed wholly. This event changed the entire face of wrestling on many levels. Bret was mostly considered a good guy even though at the time he was playing a villain. Shawn was the forever bad guy but was loved by the fans. The line between face (good guy) and heel (bad guy) became forever blurred and even today it's hard to tell when one starts and the other one ends.
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It also brought a realism to the "sport" everybody knew was fake. It made people see that, like Mick Foley said once, "I know the outcome of the match in advance but nothing is more real to me when I step in that ring."
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Finally, it was the beginning of the WWF's Attitude era that brought about some of the greatest stars to ever walk that isle in Stone Cold, the Rock and Mick Foley. (Vince also, at the next Survivor series, did a mock screwjob ending involving the Rock and Mick Foley.)

It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.
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======================================

YAY! VIDEOZ!

Bret Hart defends the IC title against Shawn Michaels in a cage match!
http://rapidshare.de/files/717393/WWE_1994-_Bret_Hart_vs_Shawn_Michaels_-_Cage_Match.wmv.html (http://rapidshare.de/files/717393/WWE_1994-_Bret_Hart_vs_Shawn_Michaels_-_Cage_Match.wmv.html)

A build up to the Survivor Series match between Bret and Shawn!
http://rapidshare.de/files/1434771/Movie.wmv.html (http://rapidshare.de/files/1434771/Movie.wmv.html)

WWE Confidental's story on what happened!
(This vid is only 7mb and very worth downloading.)
http://rapidshare.de/files/928080/WWE_Confidental_-_Montreal_Screwjob.wmv.html (http://rapidshare.de/files/928080/WWE_Confidental_-_Montreal_Screwjob.wmv.html)

The day AFTER Survivor Series on RAW Shawn brought down a midget dressed like the Hitman in an insulting (But funny.) segment.
(This file is 58mb. Right click, save target as... )
http://www.freewebtown.com/619wrestling.8m.net/Midget%20Bret.wmv (http://www.freewebtown.com/619wrestling.8m.net/Midget%20Bret.wmv)
If right clicking the above link doesn't work the vid can be found here, http://www.619wrestlingmultimedia.8m.net/Segments.html (http://www.619wrestlingmultimedia.8m.net/Segments.html)

=========================================

LINKZ!

http://www.brethart.com/ (http://www.brethart.com/)
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/Hitman/home.html (http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/Hitman/home.html)
http://www.shawnhbk.com/ (http://www.shawnhbk.com/)
http://www.forever-shawn.net/ (http://www.forever-shawn.net/)

=======================================

TOMORROW IS THE SIXTH ANNIVERSARY OF OWEN HART'S DEATH!
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kubiak
05-22-2005, 04:49 PM
Wow. Tremendous job as usual, Sara! I really liked hearing your opinions on certain things interspersed throughout, too.

At the time I can't imagine anyone else holding the belt other than Shawn. I get the feeling Bret wouldn't have wanted to drop it to anyone else for fear of appearing weak. It was a tough decision, and it's a shame it had to be made.

joeAR
05-22-2005, 05:17 PM
Tremendous job, one sided, but tremendous job nontheless

kubiak
05-22-2005, 05:23 PM
Tremendous job, one sided, but tremendous job nontheless
One sided? Really?

Seems fair to me.

joeAR
05-22-2005, 05:27 PM
One sided? Really?

Seems fair to me.


Eh not really one sided, just this one line bothered me: A lot of bad things have happened to Bret since the screw job but looking at just this event you have to say that Bret was wrong by refusing to drop the title.
He would have dropped the belt to anybody else but Shawn at that point(I believe this, Sarah doesn't) Plus i'm also biased :D

Jose Payan
05-22-2005, 05:32 PM
Bret would drop the title to anyone except Shawn. If the future of WWF/E was in such jeopardy, Vince would've agreed to Bret's terms. But Vince's ego wouldn't let him accept Bret's terms.

Was it selfish for Bret to not drop the title to Shawn? Yeah. But then again, it's also Shawn and Vince's fault. Shawn for doing everything to piss off Bret, and Vince for not doing anything to take care of the situation. Hell, even Vince did shit to stir the pot.

kubiak
05-22-2005, 05:37 PM
Eh not really one sided, just this one line bothered me: A lot of bad things have happened to Bret since the screw job but looking at just this event you have to say that Bret was wrong by refusing to drop the title.
He would have dropped the belt to anybody else but Shawn at that point(I believe this, Sarah doesn't) Plus i'm also biased :D
Fair enough.

(No "H" in Sara, btw. ;) )

joeAR
05-22-2005, 05:39 PM
Fair enough.

(No "H" in Sara, btw. ;) )


That's it, no god cookie for you

kubiak
05-22-2005, 05:42 PM
Eh not really one sided, just this one line bothered me: A lot of bad things have happened to Bret since the screw job but looking at just this event you have to say that Bret was wrong by refusing to drop the title.
He would have dropped the belt to anybody else but Shawn at that point(I believe this, Sarah doesn't) Plus i'm also biased :D
Sara did say this:
"Vince was also wrong in suggesting that Bret drop the belt to Shawn in the first place. He should have picked another wrestler from the beginning and Bret might have been more agreeable."
Which is pretty much the same thing. I just don't see him being willing to drop the title to anyone not on the top level. He wanted to go out undefeated.

kubiak
05-22-2005, 05:42 PM
That's it, no god cookie for you
Dang! I wanted a god cookie. :(

justjeffery
05-22-2005, 06:07 PM
Very nice job...

But you forgot one persons involvement...

Vince Russo.

The man that wrote the entire scenerio.

WWF was in trouble, Bret knew he wasnt gonna get his money, so he took WCWs offer. This allowed WWF to do several things. Set up Hart as leaving.. and everyone knew where he was going, so they gave him a "reason" to go. It also set up Vince as Mr McMahon, the character he played while fueding with Austen. Finally, it was the start of the Attitude era, which brought WWF back from the near death state it was in.

After the PPV, the Harts and the McMahons and select other people all sat and had dinner together... Rena Mero was said to have gotten WASTED. Glasses were raised and hands were shaken. Brett Hart left WWF on good terms...

There are a number of things that hint to this being the best work that Vince has pulled off.

First- Wrestling with Shadows. Just the fact that it exists is suspect. Vince screwed Hart, but allowed him to use WWF footage for the video? Even appeared on it? No way. Anyone that has dealt with Vince will tell you that that would NOT fly. Dont kid yourself, WWS was a WWF product.

Second- Vinnie Russo got on WCW TV, during a match between Hart and someone and called for the bell, just like at SS. Vince said something to the effect that he had written the screwjob and this was his way of paying Hart back...

Sara, PM me and I will give you the details as to exactly who I got this information from.

This was THE best work Vince has ever pulled off. It was damn near perfect. SO perfect that people still believe it to this day. He's been quoted as saying it was his proudest event since he had taken over WWF...

Corey A.
05-22-2005, 06:08 PM
HOLY SHIT! HOLY SHIT! HOLY SHIT! SARA! I would expect nothing but perfection form you Sara! Awesome job!

NickT
05-22-2005, 06:17 PM
Bret hit Vince so hard he broke his wrist. That's my favourite part :)

joeAR
05-22-2005, 06:18 PM
Bret hit Vince so hard he broke his wrist. That's my favourite part :)


:D Mine too

moonspider
05-22-2005, 06:18 PM
well, lemme first and foremost thanks you for bringing this historic event in pro wrestling...I love you and your love for this SPORT, it makes me happy to know that there is a person like you in this board that has as much love for it as I do.

Now I know that many might think, "this is one sided, this and that"...and whatever they think, and I will repect them and their views and opinions (because I'm all about love and respect)
you you gotta admit, whether it was a work, whether it was'nt...or whomever was or was not involved...that this showed the reality of the pro wrestling business...it brought it into the forefront in a way that was the shot heard around the world in that business

I am the biggest Hit man fan ever, and how this story goes, no one will ever know the real truth...that will forever be buried with the people involved
but I will tell you this...if there ever was a wrestling legacy with bret...it would be with the WWF (i hate that "e" shit), and not wcw...because wcw made him a joke and never made him the champion that the wwf had in their main events night after night, making that world title ACTUALY mean something......BRET was too good for the WWF...but he was the greatest living legend there will ever be there.....while on wcw....he was missused and thrown around like an unwanted child.
AT least WWF had the balls to take a chance on bret and in result that famous quote of his "the best there is, there was, and ever will be" will forever be brought out from my lips...because in reality..HE WAS and still is






fucking goldber and his shitty kicks

joeAR
05-22-2005, 06:24 PM
well, lemme first and foremost thanks you for bringing this historic event in pro wrestling...I love you and your love for this SPORT, it makes me happy to know that there is a person like you in this board that has as much love for it as I do.

Now I know that many might think, "this is one sided, this and that"...and whatever they think, and I will repect them and their views and opinions (because I'm all about love and respect)
you you gotta admit, whether it was a work, whether it was'nt...or whomever was or was not involved...that this showed the reality of the pro wrestling business...it brought it into the forefront in a way that was the shot heard around the world in that business

I am the biggest Hit man fan ever, and how this story goes, no one will ever know the real truth...that will forever be buried with the people involved
but I will tell you this...if there ever was a wrestling legacy with bret...it would be with the WWF (i hate that "e" shit), and not wcw...because wcw made him a joke and never made him the champion that the wwf had in their main events night after night, making that world title ACTUALY mean something......BRET was too good for the WWF...but he was the greatest living legend there will ever be there.....while on wcw....he was missused and thrown around like an unwanted child.
AT least WWF had the balls to take a chance on bret and in result that famous quote of his "the best there is, there was, and ever will be" will forever be brought out from my lips...because in reality..HE WAS and still is






fucking goldber and his shitty kicks


:p A-FUCKING-MEN BROTHER

XSaraXPoeX
05-22-2005, 06:26 PM
Wow. Tremendous job as usual, Sara! I really liked hearing your opinions on certain things interspersed throughout, too.

At the time I can't imagine anyone else holding the belt other than Shawn. I get the feeling Bret wouldn't have wanted to drop it to anyone else for fear of appearing weak. It was a tough decision, and it's a shame it had to be made.Thankx, Jim. :D



Tremendous job, one sided, but tremendous job nonthelessI tried not to put all the blame on Bret. I'm boased myself and believe he should have just dropped the belt and left but I also believe he WAS screwed.


Was it selfish for Bret to not drop the title to Shawn? Yeah. But then again, it's also Shawn and Vince's fault. Shawn for doing everything to piss off Bret, and Vince for not doing anything to take care of the situation. Hell, even Vince did shit to stir the pot.
That's just what I'm saying.


Very nice job...

But you forgot one persons involvement...

Vince Russo.I honestly think if Russo had been onvolved he would have spilled it by now. He was recently screwed by Vince. Before Bischoff joined the WWE, Russo was brought in as returning head writer. Within a week he was demoted then fired. Russo said a lot of bad things about Vince and WWE and I'm sure he would have loved to be the man to reveal it if it wee a work.


After the PPV, the Harts and the McMahons and select other people all sat and had dinner together... Rena Mero was said to have gotten WASTED. Glasses were raised and hands were shaken. Brett Hart left WWF on good terms.Then why isn't he back?


First- Wrestling with Shadows. Just the fact that it exists is suspect. Vince screwed Hart, but allowed him to use WWF footage for the video? Even appeared on it? No way. Anyone that has dealt with Vince will tell you that that would NOT fly. Dont kid yourself, WWS was a WWF product.No, Vince signed the deal with the producers of Wrestling With Shadows as part of Bret's 20 year contract. He signed away any rights he had to footage long before any of this even went down.

[quote]Second- Vinnie Russo got on WCW TV, during a match between Hart and someone and called for the bell, just like at SS. Vince said something to the effect that he had written the screwjob and this was his way of paying Hart back.[/quote[When did this happen? Any one that can give me a Nitro of ppv this happened on please do so.

Sorry Jeffrey. I love you and you're a sexy man and all, but it wasn't a work. The logistics against it are immesurable. Vince would have to be a SUPER genius to calculate screwing Bret Hart, a much loved wrestling legend, would be good for WWE.

joeAR
05-22-2005, 06:28 PM
Damn, i've read this 4 times now.

XSaraXPoeX
05-22-2005, 06:30 PM
HOLY SHIT! HOLY SHIT! HOLY SHIT! SARA! I would expect nothing but perfection form you Sara! Awesome job!Thankx! :D


Bret hit Vince so hard he broke his wrist. That's my favourite part :)That one punch did a lot of damage.



well, lemme first and foremost thanks you for bringing this historic event in pro wrestling...I love you and your love for this SPORT, it makes me happy to know that there is a person like you in this board that has as much love for it as I do.

Now I know that many might think, "this is one sided, this and that"...and whatever they think, and I will repect them and their views and opinions (because I'm all about love and respect)
you you gotta admit, whether it was a work, whether it was'nt...or whomever was or was not involved...that this showed the reality of the pro wrestling business...it brought it into the forefront in a way that was the shot heard around the world in that business

I am the biggest Hit man fan ever, and how this story goes, no one will ever know the real truth...that will forever be buried with the people involved
but I will tell you this...if there ever was a wrestling legacy with bret...it would be with the WWF (i hate that "e" shit), and not wcw...because wcw made him a joke and never made him the champion that the wwf had in their main events night after night, making that world title ACTUALY mean something......BRET was too good for the WWF...but he was the greatest living legend there will ever be there.....while on wcw....he was missused and thrown around like an unwanted child.
AT least WWF had the balls to take a chance on bret and in result that famous quote of his "the best there is, there was, and ever will be" will forever be brought out from my lips...because in reality..HE WAS and still is

fucking goldber and his shitty kicks
Spoken like a true Hitman fan! :D

NickT
05-22-2005, 06:31 PM
I bought a pair of his glasses thingies when I went to a WWF thing years ago. That and a foam Tatanka tomahawk. Memories..... :)

joeAR
05-22-2005, 06:32 PM
Thankx! :D

That one punch did a lot of damage.



Spoken like a true Hitman fan! :D


Spoken like a true HHH fan! ;)

kubiak
05-22-2005, 06:42 PM
There was way too much bad blood, far too much time has passed, and far too many people involved for this to have been a work. If it was it would be common knowledge by now.

In my opinion, you'd really have to want it to be a work to believe that it was. After the first month or so it was aparent to me that it wasn't, and I was a huge Hitman mark at the time.

THWIP!
05-22-2005, 06:50 PM
Sara this was amazing. I've always wanted to know the behind the scenes of this shit and you showed. Thanks for this. It was really good and fun to read.

XSaraXPoeX
05-22-2005, 06:57 PM
Sara this was amazing. I've always wanted to know the behind the scenes of this shit and you showed. Thanks for this. It was really good and fun to read.You're very welcome. :D It was a lot of fun to write, too.

RODGER
05-22-2005, 07:01 PM
brett never should have left WWF.

thats all i have to say

great job sara!!!
:)

XSaraXPoeX
05-22-2005, 07:19 PM
brett never should have left WWF.

thats all i have to say

great job sara!!!
:)Thankx, Roger. I can agree with that. Or...WCW should have used him a helluvalot better than they did.

THWIP!
05-22-2005, 07:21 PM
brett never should have left WWF.
I agree 100%.

jordan michael
05-22-2005, 07:24 PM
how do you know all this amazing stuff?

moonspider
05-22-2005, 07:30 PM
Spoken like a true Hitman fan! :D


:HUGS:

XSaraXPoeX
05-22-2005, 07:34 PM
how do you know all this amazing stuff?Staying home all the time doing noting but reading, watching videos and surfing the www means I have nothing to do except absorb information.

And write things down compulsively over and over.

joeAR
05-22-2005, 07:37 PM
Make that 5 times now

jordan michael
05-22-2005, 07:39 PM
Staying home all the time doing noting but reading, watching videos and surfing the www means I have nothing to do except absorb information.

And write things down compulsively over and over.

are you OCD or just bored?

moonspider
05-22-2005, 07:40 PM
with all of this...she should be the leader of money inc.

joeAR
05-22-2005, 07:42 PM
with all of this...she should be the leader of money inc.


I like to think that there is no leader of money inc. Even though Cyrus's the million dollar man, that doesn't make him the leader

moonspider
05-22-2005, 07:43 PM
: looks around and cleans his million dollar belt :

joeAR
05-22-2005, 07:49 PM
You're not the only one with a belt

http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/04/austindibiase.jpg

jordan michael
05-22-2005, 07:50 PM
You're not the only one with a belt

http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/04/austindibiase.jpg

daddy?

joeAR
05-22-2005, 07:52 PM
daddy?


If I am your daddy you bet your ass that you're getting a whipping cause you took that damn coupon away from me

jordan michael
05-22-2005, 07:56 PM
If I am your daddy you bet your ass that you're getting a whipping cause you took that damn coupon away from me

thats what you get for your gwen hating! apologize or i'll tell everyone on this board you molested me! :Oops:

joeAR
05-22-2005, 07:58 PM
thats what you get for your gwen hating! apologize or i'll tell everyone on this board you molested me!


:mad: You fool, I didn't even know you existed till now so how could I have "moletsted" you?

jordan michael
05-22-2005, 07:59 PM
:mad: You fool, I didn't even know you existed till now so how could I have "moletsted" you?

...molested me through child neglect. i can't even spell because i had a horrible father!

joeAR
05-22-2005, 08:01 PM
...molested me through child neglect. i can't even spell because i had a horrible father!


You havent seen horrible yet

jordan michael
05-22-2005, 08:02 PM
You havent seen horrible yet
no! not the sack!

joeAR
05-22-2005, 08:08 PM
no! not the sack!


:mistrust: You would like that wouldn't you you suck fuck

Chingòn
05-22-2005, 08:26 PM
Rocker member Shawn Michaels, whom many considered the best young talent in the business and who no less than Ric Flair called "The future of wrestling," was tired of it all. Tired of tag-team wrestling. Tired of a partner that put more emphasis on partying than wrestling. Tired of waiting. So he went to the big man himself. Owner of the then WWF, Vince McMahon, and asked, "What do I have to do?"

Shawn wanted more and was asking straight up what he had to do to get it. Vince answered, "You just did it."actually, i think it was more like, "who do i have to do" and vince answered, "pat patterson".

jordan michael
05-22-2005, 08:28 PM
:mistrust: You would like that wouldn't you you suck fuck

i've been found out. :rolleyes:

joeAR
05-22-2005, 08:32 PM
i've been found out. :rolleyes:


Ya I know that was lame

Cyrus Cheever
05-22-2005, 09:37 PM
i know i'm gonna come off like a complete tool and i really don't mean to but the segment where Shawn put Jannetty through a window was on the Barber Shop not Piper's Pit. please don't hate me for pointing that out, and i hope no one else has already pointed it out. its minor to the initial post, but a fact nonetheless. i love you, sara.

great work, btw. awesome. i didn't know the deal with most of that. especially the big MSG send off. i'd heard about it but not the full story.

joeAR
05-22-2005, 09:39 PM
i know i'm gonna come off like a complete tool and i really don't mean to but the segment where Shawn put Jannetty through a window was on the Barber Shop not Piper's Pit. please don't hate me for pointing that out, and i hope no one else has already pointed it out. its minor to the initial post, but a fact nonetheless. i love you, sara.


Wow I completley skimmed over that, good eye. TOOL

Cyrus Cheever
05-22-2005, 09:40 PM
Wow I completley skimmed over that, good eye. TOOL
it was such an insignificant point in the report she gave, i hated to say it. its a big deal for me because that's when i can remember being a wrestling fan for the first time. my earliest wrestling memory. i loved HBK from then till now.

joeAR
05-22-2005, 09:41 PM
it was such an insignificant point in the report she gave, i hated to say it. its a big deal for me because that's when i can remember being a wrestling fan for the first time. my earliest wrestling memory. i loved HBK from then till now.

Bret Hart and HBK were always my 2 favorite wrestlers so I was conflicted for a while.

XSaraXPoeX
05-22-2005, 09:50 PM
i know i'm gonna come off like a complete tool and i really don't mean to but the segment where Shawn put Jannetty through a window was on the Barber Shop not Piper's Pit. please don't hate me for pointing that out, and i hope no one else has already pointed it out. its minor to the initial post, but a fact nonetheless. i love you, sara.

great work, btw. awesome. i didn't know the deal with most of that. especially the big MSG send off. i'd heard about it but not the full story.And y'know what? When I was writing that part I pictured the barber shop window and yet still put Piper's Pitt for some oddball reason. Thankx for the correction. :D

Cyrus Cheever
05-22-2005, 09:54 PM
And y'know what? When I was writing that part I pictured the barber shop window and yet still put Piper's Pitt for some oddball reason. Thankx for the correction. :D
i didn't wanna come off wrong in correcting it. it was great work on the whole thing. amazing. very informative, like i said.

joeAR
05-22-2005, 09:55 PM
i didn't wanna come off wrong in correcting it. it was great work on the whole thing. amazing. very informative, like i said.


Hey, you might want to check your nose, it's a little brown ;)

Cyrus Cheever
05-22-2005, 10:01 PM
Bret Hart and HBK were always my 2 favorite wrestlers so I was conflicted for a while.
i was always a big HBK fan and this friend of mine was a bif Hart fan and we would argue on end for no reason on who was better. we were such dorks, i once let him put me in the Sharpshooter just prove i could get out of it. if i got out, i could super-kick him with no interruption. he locked it in, hard, and i just straightened my legs out and rolled him over, put it right back to him. he screamed like i'd killed him. we stood up and he just stood there waiting. i stood around 6' then to his 5'5". there was a big group of our friends at his house that day. i acted like i was gonna do it then stopped short. everyone laughed and he chuckled a bit. then BAM! i kicked him right in the face. by no means was it the marvel Shawn does every week, but it felt good and looked great. he fell flat to his back where i proceeded to slap on a Sharpshooter. he screamed agaon as i told him, "Y'know, maybe Bret is better."

Cyrus Cheever
05-22-2005, 10:01 PM
Hey, you might want to check your nose, it's a little brown ;)
fuck you, butt-monkey. :p

joeAR
05-22-2005, 10:03 PM
i was always a big HBK fan and this friend of mine was a bif Hart fan and we would argue on end for no reason on who was better. we were such dorks, i once let him put me in the Sharpshooter just prove i could get out of it. if i got out, i could super-kick him with no interruption. he locked it in, hard, and i just straightened my legs out and rolled him over, put it right back to him. he screamed like i'd killed him. we stood up and he just stood there waiting. i stood around 6' then to his 5'5". there was a big group of our friends at his house that day. i acted like i was gonna do it then stopped short. everyone laughed and he chuckled a bit. then BAM! i kicked him right in the face. by no means was it the marvel Shawn does every week, but it felt good and looked great. he fell flat to his back where i proceeded to slap on a Sharpshooter. he screamed agaon as i told him, "Y'know, maybe Bret is better."


You were one mean ass child

Cyrus Cheever
05-22-2005, 10:08 PM
You were one mean ass child
teenagers, really. somewhere between 12 and 14. with that Sharpshooter, he made a good point. but i've seen Shawn do it, too, and not just in the screw-job.

joeAR
05-22-2005, 10:10 PM
teenagers, really. somewhere between 12 and 14. with that Sharpshooter, he made a good point. but i've seen Shawn do it, too, and not just in the screw-job.


When applied right, the sharpshooter hurts like a bitch. A kick in the face hurts a lot also. Just flashbacking back to the days of backyard wrestling. *Shudder*

Cyrus Cheever
05-22-2005, 10:16 PM
When applied right, the sharpshooter hurts like a bitch. A kick in the face hurts a lot also. Just flashbacking back to the days of backyard wrestling. *Shudder*
i've always had some strong legs and long legs, as well. he was short and kind of stubby but held his own when he needed to. we got into a couple fights back in the day. i cracked one of his ribs once, he busted a vain in my leg but nothing serious.
he put on wrestling moves as he saw them, easy and relaxed. i put them on with force, when required, and made you tap the fuck out. i took great pride in that, too. i was the only person among our group to ever A) powerbomb all of our friends, B) make someone actually cry using the Texas cloverleaf, and C) never get hurt when someone did a move to me. i had the size advantage.

joeAR
05-22-2005, 10:19 PM
i've always had some strong legs and long legs, as well. he was short and kind of stubby but held his own when he needed to. we got into a couple fights back in the day. i cracked one of his ribs once, he busted a vain in my leg but nothing serious.
he put on wrestling moves as he saw them, easy and relaxed. i put them on with force, when required, and made you tap the fuck out. i took great pride in that, too. i was the only person among our group to ever A) powerbomb all of our friends, B) make someone actually cry using the Texas cloverleaf, and C) never get hurt when someone did a move to me. i had the size advantage.


All I have to say is BULLY

Cyrus Cheever
05-22-2005, 10:22 PM
All I have to say is BULLY
all i have to say is BUTT-MONKEY!

Brewtown Andy
05-23-2005, 12:35 AM
fucking goldber and his shitty kicksAnd fuck Scott Hall, who Goldberg admits was pissing himi off, and distracting him from that match with Bret.

On the flip side, every single time I've heard Bret whine about tradition in wrestling, I want to puke. Anyone know what the "time-honored tradition" in wrestling is? DROPPING A TITLE BELT ON YOUR WAY OUT OF A PROMOTION.

Ass.

Freeway
05-23-2005, 12:59 AM
[1]: Bret's been on record as saying his whole rationale towards dropping the belt was "Not in Canada, not to Shawn". That said, the bookers could've just made a match for the RAW after Survivor Series where Bret could've dropped the title without getting pinned and saved face. That's what half of Triple H's jobs have been.

[2]: Bret didn't really start decrying the WWF(E) until six years ago when Owen died. Bret still gets licensing money from the W thanks to various videos & such. Relations with the WWE have been better in recent years, especially since Vince & Bret have met whenever the WWE rolls through Calgary, signified by Bret's appearances in recent WWE video games. It's expected that they'll meet again this week or next.

[3]: The death-knell for WCW was Chris Benoit vacating the WCW Championship and leaving. When the World Champion hates it there, you know your promotion's on it's last legs. Having the Hitman leave WWE after vacating the belt would've probably had similar effects.

[4]: Goldberg had no place in the wrestling ring. PERIOD.

[5]: Benoit owns.

joeAR
05-23-2005, 06:35 AM
*Bump*

joeAR
05-23-2005, 06:36 AM
[1]: Bret's been on record as saying his whole rationale towards dropping the belt was "Not in Canada, not to Shawn". That said, the bookers could've just made a match for the RAW after Survivor Series where Bret could've dropped the title without getting pinned and saved face. That's what half of Triple H's jobs have been.

[2]: Bret didn't really start decrying the WWF(E) until six years ago when Owen died. Bret still gets licensing money from the W thanks to various videos & such. Relations with the WWE have been better in recent years, especially since Vince & Bret have met whenever the WWE rolls through Calgary, signified by Bret's appearances in recent WWE video games. It's expected that they'll meet again this week or next.

[3]: The death-knell for WCW was Chris Benoit vacating the WCW Championship and leaving. When the World Champion hates it there, you know your promotion's on it's last legs. Having the Hitman leave WWE after vacating the belt would've probably had similar effects.

[4]: Goldberg had no place in the wrestling ring. PERIOD.

[5]: Benoit owns.


Ah the beauty of logic :eek:

joeAR
05-23-2005, 06:38 AM
And fuck Scott Hall, who Goldberg admits was pissing himi off, and distracting him from that match with Bret.

On the flip side, every single time I've heard Bret whine about tradition in wrestling, I want to puke. Anyone know what the "time-honored tradition" in wrestling is? DROPPING A TITLE BELT ON YOUR WAY OUT OF A PROMOTION.

Ass.


He would have dropped the title the next night on RAW.

Ass :p

Brewtown Andy
05-23-2005, 06:50 AM
He would have dropped the title the next night on RAW.

Ass :pThat would have been the day after his contract ran out. Bischoff would have led off Nitro an hour before Raw went on the air with a whole huge "WWF Champion on WCW contract" stuff that would have killed the WWF. And let's face it, he would have, because he trumpeted the announcement of Bret ANYWAY.

joeAR
05-23-2005, 06:51 AM
That would have been the day after his contract ran out. Bischoff would have led off Nitro an hour before Raw went on the air with a whole huge "WWF Champion on WCW contract" stuff that would have killed the WWF. And let's face it, he would have, because he trumpeted the announcement of Bret ANYWAY.


Bret's contract ran till December, Bret would have droped the belt the RAW after Survivor Series

Brewtown Andy
05-23-2005, 06:53 AM
Bret's contract ran till December, Bret would have droped the belt the RAW after Survivor SeriesI was always told it ran out that day.

And he wasn't going to drop the title as in put someone over like tradition dictates, he was going to vacate it.

joeAR
05-23-2005, 06:56 AM
I was always told it ran out that day.

And he wasn't going to drop the title as in put someone over like tradition dictates, he was going to vacate it.


Let's agree to disagree cause neither one of us is folding

joeAR
05-23-2005, 07:01 AM
The day AFTER Survivor Series on RAW Shawn brought down a midget dressed like the Hitman in an insulting (But funny.) segment.


I thought that was the RAW that took place 8 days after Survivor Series. Cause I remember the WWF already said that Bret was leaving and they were talking about how much he was getting in WCW. Then they were also making a big deal cause it was at least a week since the Survivor Series and they were saying that his contract does run till the end of December

Cyrus Cheever
05-23-2005, 08:49 AM
The day AFTER Survivor Series on RAW Shawn brought down a midget dressed like the Hitman in an insulting (But funny.) segment.


I thought that was the RAW that took place 8 days after Survivor Series. Cause I remember the WWF already said that Bret was leaving and they were talking about how much he was getting in WCW. Then they were also making a big deal cause it was at least a week since the Survivor Series and they were saying that his contract does run till the end of December
Bischoff even announced on Nitro after the aqusition of Bret and said that he wouldn't be there until late December, because he was still under some kind of contract with the WWF. it was probably another deal like with Matt Hardy, the no compete thing. he may have been officially released from the company but not allowed to wrestle anywhere else so that it wouldn't sully the name he had in WWF and their relationship. he couldn't ride off of any heat he had in a previous company. he didn't compete for his remaining time in the WWF but he was still under some kind of contract.

joeAR
05-23-2005, 08:55 AM
Bischoff even announced on Nitro after the aqusition of Bret and said that he wouldn't be there until late December, because he was still under some kind of contract with the WWF. it was probably another deal like with Matt Hardy, the no compete thing. he may have been officially released from the company but not allowed to wrestle anywhere else so that it wouldn't sully the name he had in WWF and their relationship. he couldn't ride off of any heat he had in a previous company. he didn't compete for his remaining time in the WWF but he was still under some kind of contract.


Ya I remember that, the NWO came out singing Oh Canada, I almost shot the tv cause not one of them could sing

Cyrus Cheever
05-23-2005, 08:57 AM
and for those that are believing solely what was on Bret's video, remember, that's about as one-sided as it gets. i'm sure if Shawn put out a similar tell-all documentary, it would be extremely one-sided, too, despite his Christianity. no one wants to say, "Yeah, I was a jealous bastard of (Bret/Shawn) and I wanted to screw him over." and we'll never hear either of them say anything to prop the other outside of the generic compliments the talent gives each other in interviews. no one will ever know the full, true story. the only people who are gonna know the facts are those that experienced it first hand.
and that's no offense to anyone who's researched it (sara) or followed it through the internet or tv (joe and brewton). it's just that no one knows. i could be wrong in what i've said.

well, except for that thing about the Barber Shop. just playing.

disagree? read the sig.

joeAR
05-23-2005, 08:58 AM
and for those that are believing solely what was on Bret's video, remember, that's about as one-sided as it gets. i'm sure if Shawn put out a similar tell-all documentary, it would be extremely one-sided, too, despite his Christianity. no one wants to say, "Yeah, I was a jealous bastard of (Bret/Shawn) and I wanted to screw him over." and we'll never hear either of them say anything to prop the other outside of the generic compliments the talent gives each other in interviews. no one will ever know the full, true story. the only people who are gonna know the facts are those that experienced it first hand.
and that's no offense to anyone who's researched it (sara) or followed it through the internet or tv (joe and brewton). it's just that no one knows. i could be wrong in what i've said.

well, except for that thing about the Barber Shop. just playing.

disagree? read the sig.


It's like we're twins, except you're a butthole :p

Cyrus Cheever
05-23-2005, 09:00 AM
Ya I remember that, the NWO came out singing Oh Canada, I almost shot the tv cause not one of them could sing
that's the one. they said that night in late November that he would be there in late December because he was still under contract with the WWF. i saw the same stuff about how his contract was up that night when the screw-job took place and the next night he would drop it to whoever or just vacate it, but they also said he was under contract until late December.

Cyrus Cheever
05-23-2005, 09:01 AM
It's like we're twins, except you're a butthole :p
shut up, BUTT-MONKEY! :mad:














:p

joeAR
05-23-2005, 09:02 AM
shut up, BUTT-MONKEY! :mad:














:p

Or what you'll powerbomb me....waitaminute.... :shock: *runs and hides*

chrisfasowned
05-23-2005, 09:04 AM
hey sara, your wwe confidential download is really the cage match, where can we find the confidential?

SolidGoldBomb
05-23-2005, 09:05 AM
The Texas Cloverleaf is a real man's submission hold

joeAR
05-23-2005, 09:07 AM
The Texas Cloverleaf is a real man's submission hold


The Liontamer/Walls of Jericho used to be so fucking painful it was rediculous. Now it just looks like a boston crab but before....jesus

Cyrus Cheever
05-23-2005, 09:30 AM
Or what you'll powerbomb me....waitaminute.... :shock: *runs and hides*
i have got to put up a picture somewhere.

Cyrus Cheever
05-23-2005, 09:35 AM
the Crossface Chicken Wing, when Properly applied can potentially kill a man. i'm completely serious on this. i choked out the biggest badass in my school with it in the school's parking lot. we were goofing off outside of a ball game or something and started wrestling around. he was and still is bigger than me but i got onto his back and finally locked it in. he fell tro one knee and then face first into the concrete with me wrapped around his neck with his arm yanked back. it was pure beauty.

XSaraXPoeX
05-23-2005, 10:06 AM
hey sara, your wwe confidential download is really the cage match, where can we find the confidential?WOW! Nine pages and you're the first to mention that. :( Is no one downloading the vids?
http://rapidshare.de/files/928080/WWE_Confidental_-_Montreal_Screwjob.wmv.html (http://rapidshare.de/files/928080/WWE_Confidental_-_Montreal_Screwjob.wmv.html) Here's the right link. I corrected it in the first post, too. :D

moonspider
05-23-2005, 10:07 AM
TONGAN DEATH GRIP!!!!
http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/h/haku/16.jpg

Fisted Baby
05-23-2005, 10:20 AM
I think you're wrong about the MSG incident. Triple H was punished for about six months for that and made to lose to Warrior at wrestlemania. Until he did that, Hunter was meant to win KOTR.

Brewtown Andy
05-23-2005, 10:33 AM
I think you're wrong about the MSG incident. Triple H was punished for about six months for that and made to lose to Warrior at wrestlemania. Until he did that, Hunter was meant to win KOTR.Hunter went something like 6-2 on PPV for the year after the incident. Hardly a punishment.

XSaraXPoeX
05-23-2005, 10:37 AM
I think you're wrong about the MSG incident. Triple H was punished for about six months for that and made to lose to Warrior at wrestlemania. Until he did that, Hunter was meant to win KOTR.What was I wrong about?

HHH lost to Warrior at the Wrestlemania right BEFORE the MSG incident. His punishment was losing hog slop matches and to rookies like Rocky Maivia. HHH was booked in high school gyms and bingo halls. He paid is dues and people hate him for it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/gothicangels/hhhdivorce.jpg

Freeway
05-23-2005, 10:37 AM
Hunter went something like 6-2 on PPV for the year after the incident. Hardly a punishment.

Revisionist history says that Vince was initally OK with breaking kayfabe until somebody (Patterson? Brisco?) bitched to him and got him to change his mind, so Hunter was "punished" by having his KOTR push pushed back.

XSaraXPoeX
05-23-2005, 10:47 AM
(Patterson? Brisco?)
Gerwitz? I think it was him but it could have been Brisco.

mattdangerouslyV1
05-23-2005, 11:25 AM
One sided? Really?

Seems fair to me.

I agree. Sara and I have argued over this issue a couple of times, yet I was very pleasantly surprised at Sara's decision to not take sides.

XSaraXPoeX
05-23-2005, 11:29 AM
I agree. Sara and I have argued over this issue a couple of times, yet I was very pleasantly surprised at Sara's decision to not take sides.Thankx, Matt. I tried very hard to be fair. :D

mattdangerouslyV1
05-23-2005, 11:34 AM
Very nice job...

But you forgot one persons involvement...

Vince Russo.

The man that wrote the entire scenerio.

WWF was in trouble, Bret knew he wasnt gonna get his money, so he took WCWs offer. This allowed WWF to do several things. Set up Hart as leaving.. and everyone knew where he was going, so they gave him a "reason" to go. It also set up Vince as Mr McMahon, the character he played while fueding with Austen. Finally, it was the start of the Attitude era, which brought WWF back from the near death state it was in.

After the PPV, the Harts and the McMahons and select other people all sat and had dinner together... Rena Mero was said to have gotten WASTED. Glasses were raised and hands were shaken. Brett Hart left WWF on good terms...

There are a number of things that hint to this being the best work that Vince has pulled off.

First- Wrestling with Shadows. Just the fact that it exists is suspect. Vince screwed Hart, but allowed him to use WWF footage for the video? Even appeared on it? No way. Anyone that has dealt with Vince will tell you that that would NOT fly. Dont kid yourself, WWS was a WWF product.

Second- Vinnie Russo got on WCW TV, during a match between Hart and someone and called for the bell, just like at SS. Vince said something to the effect that he had written the screwjob and this was his way of paying Hart back...

Sara, PM me and I will give you the details as to exactly who I got this information from.

This was THE best work Vince has ever pulled off. It was damn near perfect. SO perfect that people still believe it to this day. He's been quoted as saying it was his proudest event since he had taken over WWF...


You make some really good points, but... I don't buy it. If it was a work, I think Bret would have come out and admitted it by now. If Vince and Bret parted on good terms in Montreal, it didn't last long. I think, that though they've apparantly reconciled, Bret despised Vince for a couple of years. What better way to embarrass him than to spoil the event that created the "Mr. McMahon" character that Vince has, on a shoot level, become?

joeAR
05-23-2005, 01:09 PM
God what i wouldn't give to be there when all of this was going down cause there's no other way to no exactly what happened. Not taking anything away from the tremendous job that you did Sara

moonspider
05-23-2005, 01:38 PM
http://ringinsider.com/wrestlingmedia/photos/gifs/sharpshooter.gif

joeAR
05-23-2005, 02:43 PM
*bump*

moonspider
05-23-2005, 04:06 PM
*bump*


DA POUUUUUUUUNCE!!!