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View Full Version : Because there's a fuckload of you guys who are writers without artists....



mike black
09-07-2007, 09:31 AM
Shamelessly stolen from BadSignal (http://mailman.flirble.org/mailman/listinfo/badsignal), Warren Ellis (http://warrenellis.com/)' mailing list.


* Createspace.com: Amazon's
Print On Demand operation. Very
interesting. For no money at all,
you can create a book (or CD or
DVD or whatever), get an Amazon
Buy It Now badge for your website,
and let them take care of everything
else. I understand Lulu and other
POD operations are very good, but
this is the killer app: you get
Amazon's distribution system. This
is massive.

* Why is it massive? It's fucking
AMAZON. Self-publishing turns
into a one-click deal. In fact, POD
on this order transcends self-pub
and vanity pub to a large extent.
It re-enables the small press for the
new generation. You youngsters
won't remember what it was like,
looking through fringe bookstores
for the odd things, the new things,
the weird things -- things that were
small and important, which people
had had to gamble real money on
the production and printing of. I
still have boxes and boxes of this
sort of thing from the 80s --
photocopied booklets, short-run
magazines in strange formats,
books from one-person publishing
houses that only got distributed in
occult stores, music stores or very
big forward-looking bookstores in
major cities. You had to really
scratch to find things like Temple
Ov Psychick Youth pamphlets,
James Havoc's RAISM, Fortean
stuff (I'd go to the Fortean
Unconventions with a kitbag and
come away with two hundred quid's
worth of books you couldn't find
anywhere else), The Fred, even
Savoy's stuff...

* Also, just as an aside: given that
sf magazines pay$50/1000 words
and don't publish much that's over
15000 words, a determined sf
writer could release POD books
in the novellette/novella length.
Or even band together and create
a POD imprint inside Createspace.

Ronin redux for the prose crowd, as it were.

Jacob Lyon Goddard
09-07-2007, 09:32 AM
*braces for the tidal wave of crap*

Tim Simmons
09-07-2007, 09:38 AM
*braces for the tidal wave of crap*

that was sort of my initial reaction as well...I think we're going to see a lot of people copy/pasting their livejournal entries into novel format.

Still, I do think we'll see some potentially interesting voices coming out of this thing...

I do wonder if Amazon plans to brand their shit all over these printed books.
Like, is there going to be an uglyass "Createspace" watermark printed on the back of the book?

mike black
09-07-2007, 09:45 AM
that was sort of my initial reaction as well...I think we're going to see a lot of people copy/pasting their livejournal entries into novel format.

Still, I do think we'll see some potentially interesting voices coming out of this thing...

I do wonder if Amazon plans to brand their shit all over these printed books.
Like, is there going to be an uglyass "Createspace" watermark printed on the back of the book?

I wholely agree. I'm not going to name names, but there's a particular reason why people would move in a certain d (http://enemyone.com/)irection to protect the perceived quality of their work based on a brand name.

On the other hand, I was thinking about really starting to write again, and this affords me the ability to not have to look for a literary agent. ;)

T-Dro
09-07-2007, 09:46 AM
This is pretty huge. They will give you an ISBN if you don't already have one.

I am about half way finished a book that I was going to sell through my cafepress shop, but now I'm going to have to see if Amazon is the way to go.

Jef UK
09-07-2007, 09:55 AM
Vanity presses are a ripoff to everyone other than the press.

mike black
09-07-2007, 09:57 AM
Vanity presses are a ripoff to everyone other than the press.

Then don't publish with them...?

SCOURGE
09-07-2007, 10:00 AM
Are there are potential copyright/trademark right issues doing it this way?

Tim Simmons
09-07-2007, 10:05 AM
I wholely agree. I'm not going to name names, but there's a particular reason why people would move in a certain d (http://enemyone.com/)irection to protect the perceived quality of their work based on a brand name.

On the other hand, I was thinking about really starting to write again, and this affords me the ability to not have to look for a literary agent. ;)

Funny, I went to go see Mark Z Danielewski (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Z._Danielewski) last night. When he was asked for his advice to writer-hopefuls he said to basically learn the whole page layout/print format stuff-- that publishers don't want to really do anything with your book but load it into a print machine and run it off...
Basically, don't give them a Word document...

And that's what createspace is doing...

But, yeah-- for me, the big thing is going to be to not have intrusive labeling of their brand all over it...we'll see. I am curious to try "something" with this...adding some water to Goddard's tidal wave of crap.

Jef UK
09-07-2007, 10:16 AM
On the other hand, I was thinking about really starting to write again, and this affords me the ability to not have to look for a literary agent. ;)

If you have a finished draft of a novel about which you are confident, why wouldn't you look for a literary agent?

mike black
09-07-2007, 10:27 AM
If you have a finished draft of a novel about which you are confident, why wouldn't you look for a literary agent?

Because "finished draft of a novel" and "fucking around with prose again for the first time in two years" are two entirely different things.

This also affords an easy, cost affective, throwaway novella printing avenue.

As in "I've got some throw away concepts I want to sandbox with..."

RickLM
09-07-2007, 10:30 AM
*braces for the tidal wave of crap*



This is my thought exactly . . . and yet other people who I respect (like Warren Ellis in the initial post and some experienced writers I've talked to)swear this is liberating for the talented writer who can't catch a break the traditional way.

I know self-publishing is sensible for comic creators, but how many prose writers started out this way and then got the attention of big publishing houses? Very few, I think.

SteveZegers
09-07-2007, 10:31 AM
Finally an outlet for my erotic poetry!

mike black
09-07-2007, 11:01 AM
Finally an outlet for my erotic poetry!

I can't fucking wait.

Jef UK
09-07-2007, 11:04 AM
Because "finished draft of a novel" and "fucking around with prose again for the first time in two years" are two entirely different things.

This also affords an easy, cost affective, throwaway novella printing avenue.

As in "I've got some throw away concepts I want to sandbox with..."

Well, right. But then "fucking around with prose" is no reason to look for an agent in the first place.

I see what you mean.

T-Dro
09-07-2007, 11:06 AM
I know self-publishing is sensible for comic creators, but how many prose writers started out this way and then got the attention of big publishing houses? Very few, I think.

Might not get you into the biz, but if you really just want to make a few copies for yourself and your friends, it would be nice. And if other random people happen to buy a copy of your book, that's great too.

mike black
09-07-2007, 11:06 AM
Well, right. But then "fucking around with prose" is no reason to look for an agent in the first place.

I see what you mean.

It's a tight line.

I suppose "Fucking around with prose until I find out if it's good, then going after a literary agent." is the best way to clarify.

Wubbs
09-07-2007, 12:13 PM
I know self-publishing is sensible for comic creators, but how many prose writers started out this way and then got the attention of big publishing houses? Very few, I think.
This could make that more likely, though. Or, at least, less likely to never happen. :) Who knows.
I'd like to find out more about it.

PhilipClark
09-07-2007, 12:24 PM
This is great. I've been looking for a new POD for my CD.

citizenDave
09-07-2007, 01:08 PM
I wholely agree. I'm not going to name names, but there's a particular reason why people would move in a certain d (http://enemyone.com/)irection to protect the perceived quality of their work based on a brand name.


subtle.

Thommy Melanson
09-07-2007, 01:19 PM
subtle.

http://www.gp.lib.mi.us/information/about/Tools/sledgehammer.jpg