ABC exposes 'Predator' tonight

[BENDIS!]

ABC exposes 'Predator' tonight
'20/20' premiere investigates NBC's Dateline
By MICHAEL LEARMONTH NEW YORK -- ABC News' takedown of the "To Catch a Predator" series, which has performed so well for NBC's "Dateline," will appear tonight in the season premiere of "20/20."
ABC News deployed chief investigative reporter Brian Ross to explore complaints about the now-infamous sting in a small Texas town in that ended when one suspect, an assistant district attorney, committed suicide as police tried to arrest him.

Ross is set to report on "20/20" that the Murphy, Texas, police turned over crucial aspects of the sting's operation to "Dateline" and partner org Perverted Justice.

"The police department, the professionals, weren't in control of the entire operation," Collin County D.A. John Roach told Ross. "They weren't calling the shots. Somebody else was."

Roach said that before the sting, he warned the Murphy police department in writing not to cooperate with "Dateline." "We're in the law-enforcement business, not show business," he wrote.

In the end, he declined to prosecute any of the 23 men ensnared by the "Dateline" operation, which has been covered extensively by the Dallas Morning News and was the subject of a lengthy article in Esquire.

One of the men who allegedly propositioned Perverted Justice staff posing as underage girls in Internet chat rooms was William Conradt Jr., an assistant district attorney.

Conradt didn't allow himself to be lured to the "Dateline" decoy house, but he committed suicide as police stormed his home with NBC cameras waiting outside.

Conradt's sister filed a $105 million suit against NBC Universal in New York District Court in July.

In Ross' story, Murphy Police Chief Billy Myrick continued to defend his department's collaboration with "Dateline." NBC News execs declined to appear on "20/20."

[daveydeadite]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/31/Predator_face2.JPG

[Brad N.]

Wow, reading that article it sounds more and more to me like this D.A. is the douche here. HE alone decided not to charge any of these sick fucks because he didn't like the police working with Dateline. I wonder if his outrage stems from the fact one of his friends was one of those targeted who eventually killed himself.

[Gregory]

Esquire detailed the Texas fiasco in last month's issue. It makes ABC's investigation looks more like network rivalry than journalism.

[Matt Jay]

Esquire detailed the Texas fiasco in last month's issue. It makes ABC's investigation looks more like network rivalry than journalism.
Yeah, sounds like a hit piece.

[thatguyfromsyracuse]

OK, I would actually pay attention to this if it seemed like it was actually going after the idea itsself, but as Greg said, it really does just sound like network rivalry more than anything.

[Gregory]

I should also mention that the Esquire piece may be the best magazine writing you'll see this year.

[The Cheap-Arse Film Critic]

I'm torn on what to think of this show. On the one hand there's no way it isn't entrapment, which is wrong. On the other hands, they're pedophiles, so I find it very hard to care.

[Patrick J]

One of the men who allegedly propositioned Perverted Justice staff posing as underage girls in Internet chat rooms was William Conradt Jr., an assistant district attorney.

Conradt didn't allow himself to be lured to the "Dateline" decoy house, but he committed suicide as police stormed his home with NBC cameras waiting outside.


That part has me confused.

If he wasn't lured to the house that means he didn't go. Which means he may have just been talking, only words or whatever. Which is still no excuse and he probably was still sick and had problems, but at the same time he didn't go to any house looking for sex with a minor, which I can't see as being as bad as the sicko pedophiles that actually DO show up to these homes looking for sex. He stayed home. Why then did the police still raid his house?

[Jim T.]

I'm torn on what to think of this show. On the one hand there's no way it isn't entrapment, which is wrong. On the other hands, they're pedophiles, so I find it very hard to care.

I'm not torn - entrapment or not, I'm in favor of the cops putting a bullet in them as they walk out, or at least giving them a good tuning. These guys are absolute scumbags and it enrages me every time I see them walking out and not getting the asskicking they so richly deserve...

[Matt Jay]

I'm torn on what to think of this show. On the one hand there's no way it isn't entrapment, which is wrong. On the other hands, they're pedophiles, so I find it very hard to care.

It's not entrapment. Not from a legal standpoint.

[Gregory]

Why then did the police still raid his house?

That's the real bugaboo. The producers, using their hired officers (expecting them to follow the producers' ideas instead of police protocol), called in the SWAT team and set up their cameras to film the raid. The cameras and SWAT were outside the house -- clearly visible to Conradt -- for some time before they went in. And the warrant used to allow the SWAT entry is now challenged as flawed; the county and date information are incorrect as the officer preparing it had only a few hours (overnight) to assemble the warrant request based on the evidence at hand.

Because of who he was, the producers wanted a dramatic capture of a high-profile target. If they really wanted to capture him, they could have asked an officer to talk him out of the home off-camera. This is similar to what happened with David Koresh and Waco: Had the officers approached Conradt outside his home, he might still be alive.

[Brad N.]

That's the real bugaboo. The producers, using their hired officers (expecting them to follow the producers' ideas instead of police protocol), called in the SWAT team and set up their cameras to film the raid. The cameras and SWAT were outside the house -- clearly visible to Conradt -- for some time before they went in. And the warrant used to allow the SWAT entry is now challenged as flawed; the county and date information are incorrect as the officer preparing it had only a few hours (overnight) to assemble the warrant request based on the evidence at hand.

Because of who he was, the producers wanted a dramatic capture of a high-profile target. If they really wanted to capture him, they could have asked an officer to talk him out of the home off-camera. This is similar to what happened with David Koresh and Waco: Had the officers approached Conradt outside his home, he might still be alive.

That's a real leap to make though. Who is to say whether or not the douchebag would have killed himself or not either way? Now, this one particular incident may be peculiar but let's not lose sight of who these fucksticks are.

Also, I had many problems with the Esquire article and one of the main problems being the belief that anyone would think any police department in any locale in the country would allow themselves to be tools of a TV crew. That is ridiculous.

[Brad N.]

That part has me confused.

If he wasn't lured to the house that means he didn't go. Which means he may have just been talking, only words or whatever. Which is still no excuse and he probably was still sick and had problems, but at the same time he didn't go to any house looking for sex with a minor, which I can't see as being as bad as the sicko pedophiles that actually DO show up to these homes looking for sex. He stayed home. Why then did the police still raid his house?

Because it is a felony to talk sexually to a minor online. The crime was his talking, his words, the things he said to what he thought was a child online. This is crime # 1. Often times these scumbags also send naked pictures of themselves to what they think are children (I can't recall if he did or not), and that would be the second crime. Then everything at the house would be in addition to that, just piling on the evidence. However, the chat logs of him talking dirty to a kid is more than enough to arrest and charge him.

[Gregory]

That's a real leap to make though. Who is to say whether or not the douchebag would have killed himself or not either way? Now, this one particular incident may be peculiar but let's not lose sight of who these fucksticks are.

It's less likely he would have shot himself in his house had he been apprehended unarmed outside his home. He knew what the Predator show was about; I believe he referenced it in his chat transcripts. And I don't put credence in the Townsend-esque defense that he was simply researching pedophile culture for his legal work or trying to rescue at-risk youth.


Also, I had many problems with the Esquire article and one of the main problems being the belief that anyone would think any police department in any locale in the country would allow themselves to be tools of a TV crew. That is ridiculous.

The warrant info and procedure was sloppy at best. If they hadn't gotten that passed by a judge, they couldn't go inside the home (with a SWAT team for God's sake). The police procedures here are suspect, and the magazine quotes the producers on scene as asserting their choices over the concerns of their employed officers. I agree that the police failed to assert THEIR jurisdiction protocols, but I don't believe they alone sparked the frenzy to get Conradt in such a dramatic fashion. This was a bonfire of bad decisions.

[DaveCummings]

I'm a bit torn on the issue and concept of Dateline's "To Catch a Predator". I don't like how NBC is constantly televising it and broadcasting someone's deviancy. I'm not suprised that more people aren't killing themselves due to this.

However, (this will sound overly insensitive) the more child molestors killing themselves the better. I'd rather them kill themselves than see another story of a kid getting kidnapped, raped, and killed by these sick fucks. I'm sorry, I'm all for rehabilitation in prison for alot of other crimes, but these people are beyond rehabilitation. I'm all for these people going away and never see the sunlight ever again. It sounds harsh, but these bastards target innocent children, destroying their lives, thier childhood. Hell, incarceration is too good for these fucks.

Sorry if that sounds overly insensitive, but that's how I feel about that.

[Brad N.]

It's less likely he would have shot himself in his house had he been apprehended unarmed outside his home. He knew what the Predator show was about; I believe he referenced it in his chat transcripts. And I don't put credence in the Townsend-esque defense that he was simply researching pedophile culture for his legal work or trying to rescue at-risk youth.



The warrant info and procedure was sloppy at best. If they hadn't gotten that passed by a judge, they couldn't go inside the home (with a SWAT team for God's sake). The police procedures here are suspect, and the magazine quotes the producers on scene as asserting their choices over the concerns of their employed officers. I agree that the police failed to assert THEIR jurisdiction protocols, but I don't believe they alone sparked the frenzy to get Conradt in such a dramatic fashion. This was a bonfire of bad decisions.


Oh, don't get me wrong, it was a clusterfuck. I'm just saying that unless these officers are the biggest morons on the planet I still would say they were running a joint operation. Things were sloppy in this particular case but to me it isn't an indictment on the idea of the show or most of the other cases. That and to be honest I couldn't care less that this a-hole blew his brains out.

[Josh!]

Is the Esquire story on line, or am I off to Borders for my lunch break?

[YouStayClassy]

SWEET 5 page article about this very thing: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/15723886/to_catch_a_predator_is_nbcs_primetime_dragnet_the_ new_american_witch_hunt/5

[Gregory]

Is the Esquire story on line, or am I off to Borders for my lunch break?

It's here (http://www.esquire.com/features/predator0907).

[TheTravis!]

I should also mention that the Esquire piece may be the best magazine writing you'll see this year.

Agreed x1,000. Amazing piece.

[TheTravis!]

Also, I had many problems with the Esquire article and one of the main problems being the belief that anyone would think any police department in any locale in the country would allow themselves to be tools of a TV crew. That is ridiculous.

This should be stricken from the record, as it makes you look painfully naive.

[Marcdachamp]

I agree with the sentiment that it is kind of entrapment, but I feel little to no sympathy for these bastards.

Some of the people on the show have shown up MULTIPLE TIMES. How the fuck am I supposed to feel sympathy for someone that did the exact same thing after his first public shaming? If anything, Dateline shows just how prevalent this problem has become.

[Matt Jay]

Dateline should do a counter-expose revealing that ABC is run by pedos.

[glk]

Wow, reading that article it sounds more and more to me like this D.A. is the douche here. HE alone decided not to charge any of these sick fucks because he didn't like the police working with Dateline. I wonder if his outrage stems from the fact one of his friends was one of those targeted who eventually killed himself.

Agreed. And the pedophile who committed suicide made his decisions on his own.

[Brad N.]

This should be stricken from the record, as it makes you look painfully naive.

As someone who has extensive knowledge of law enforcement please enlighten me.

[Brad N.]

I agree with the sentiment that it is kind of entrapment, but I feel little to no sympathy for these bastards.

Some of the people on the show have shown up MULTIPLE TIMES. How the fuck am I supposed to feel sympathy for someone that did the exact same thing after his first public shaming? If anything, Dateline shows just how prevalent this problem has become.

Again, not even remotely entrapment. I'd like anyone who thinks that anything Dateline has done here can be seen as entrapment in any sense of the word.

[Josh!]

It's here (http://www.esquire.com/features/predator0907).

sweet. Thanks!!!

[NATE!]

The problem I have with this show is that it shines too much of a spotlight on these things. Pedos see it and adjust their tactics or lay low, making them harder to catch. All in the name of ratings.

[Brad N.]

The problem I have with this show is that it shines too much of a spotlight on these things. Pedos see it and adjust their tactics or lay low, making them harder to catch. All in the name of ratings.


See, Nate, that was my initial reacton to it, but the fact that it's been going strong for what 2 years now and they still catch dozens week after week has made me realize that either a) Pedos don't watch Dateline or b) The don't care and are willing to take the risk.

[Josh!]

wow... what a read...

Here's my two cents: I want these guys caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I, however, don't want them humiliated for my entertainment on national television.

[TheKraken]

As someone who has extensive knowledge of law enforcement please enlighten me.

Anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of human nature would be able to enlighten you, apparently. Cops aren't infallible saints. These guys could very easily be caught up in the excitement of being shown on TV being a hero and make bad choices. They're only human. Cops have done a lot worse...

[Blastbeat Science]

the bottom line is the only man responsible for killing himself is the guy who killed himself.

[Brad N.]

Anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of human nature would be able to enlighten you, apparently. Cops aren't infallible saints. These guys could very easily be caught up in the excitement of being shown on TV being a hero and make bad choices. They're only human. Cops have done a lot worse...

Ummm, that's not what I was talking about. Blaming what happened there entirely on NBC/Dateline is plain silly. Could SOME of the cops have wanted to be on TV and been a little overboard? Maybe. BUT, to say that any police force would allow anyone but them to control and command their officers is bollocks.

[Brad N.]

the bottom line is the only man responsible for killing himself is the guy who killed himself.


precisely, and good riddance. I wish everyone who solicited sex from children online had his smarts.

[NATE!]

See, Nate, that was my initial reacton to it, but the fact that it's been going strong for what 2 years now and they still catch dozens week after week has made me realize that either a) Pedos don't watch Dateline or b) The don't care and are willing to take the risk.

And for every one they catch, how many are learning from this and evolving, hence, becoming more dangerous? My point is this: They could do the exact same thing and be just as effective, if not more, by not publicizing it for ratings' sake. There is no point to putting it on television, period. Keeping it low profile would have yielded even more results.

[Brad N.]

And for every one they catch, how many are learning from this and evolving, hence, becoming more dangerous? My point is this: They could do the exact same thing and be just as effective, if not more, by not publicizing it for ratings' sake. There is no point to putting it on television, period. Keeping it low profile would have yielded even more results.


Well, perhaps, but on the other hand maybe there are hundreds or even thousands of pedos who have thought twice before acting on their impulses thanks to the show and being afraid of being on Dateline. I dunno, I guess it can go both ways. *shrug*

[Brandon Reynolds]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/31/Predator_face2.JPG

How odd. I had the exact same thought!

[glk]

Well, perhaps, but on the other hand maybe there are hundreds or even thousands of pedos who have thought twice before acting on their impulses thanks to the show and being afraid of being on Dateline. I dunno, I guess it can go both ways. *shrug*

I agree with this angle. Public humiliation and destruction of your marriage/job/life is the only thing that may work because jail time doesn't seem to rehabilitate pedophiles.

[En Sabah Poo]

Jail time doesn't seem to rehabilitate pedophiles.

And why do you think that is?

It still amazes me that people can't grasp some of these criminal justice concepts and realize what a load of shit this show really is. It's the mob mentality put into prime time television.

[Brad N.]

And why do you think that is?

It still amazes me that people can't grasp some of these criminal justice concepts and realize what a load of shit this show really is. It's the mob mentality put into prime time television.

To each their own, but I disagree. I don't think of it as a mob mentality show at all. You have people set up posing as children in chat rooms performing a sting operation with the help of local police departments. Cops use citizens all the time for liquor stings and this isn't all that different. The TV show COPS has a camera crew following around police officers performing their job. To me it's just a combination of the two and it works because there is no one more fitting of ridicule and humiliation than someone who preys on children. I'm as liberal as they come and against the death penalty but to me pedophiles are one group of people that earn the hatred directed at them. I'm not saying they don't have rights either and neither does the show. They get busted and go through the legal system the same as anyone else.

[RebootedCorpse]

On now. Should be fun.

[RebootedCorpse]

Wow. Those are some shitty cops.

[Blandy vs Terrorism]

I'm torn on what to think of this show. On the one hand there's no way it isn't entrapment, which is wrong. On the other hands, they're pedophiles, so I find it very hard to care.

I concur.

[En Sabah Poo]

It's actually not entrapment at all. Entrapment requires that the state has coerced a citizen into doing something they had no intention of doing. These guys are initiating the contact and would likely have done it without the police involvement. Providing an opportunity to commit a crime is not entrapment.

[Brad N.]

It's actually not entrapment at all. Entrapment requires that the state has coerced a citizen into doing something they had no intention of doing. These guys are initiating the contact and would likely have done it without the police involvement. Providing an opportunity to commit a crime is not entrapment.

I've tried explaining that to people in the 100 related threads over the years and you'd think I was speaking Greek. It's not tough to grasp really when you understand what is and is not entrapment.

[En Sabah Poo]

I've tried explaining that to people in the 100 related threads over the years and you'd think I was speaking Greek. It's not tough to grasp really when you understand what is and is not entrapment.

It's actually pretty difficult to prove entrapment and in internet cases like these, it would be pretty impossible.

[Brad N.]

It's actually pretty difficult to prove entrapment and in internet cases like these, it would be pretty impossible.


The only case I can recall off the top of my head was one where a woman sorta joked about hiring someone to kill her husband and the cops kept bugging her about it, begging and pleading even after she told the decoy no and they had the whole thing on tape with her saying she wasn't serious until after days and many hours of pushing her into it she said something like "Fine, whatever" and they arrested her.

[Marcdachamp]

The only case I can recall off the top of my head was one where a woman sorta joked about hiring someone to kill her husband and the cops kept bugging her about it, begging and pleading even after she told the decoy no and they had the whole thing on tape with her saying she wasn't serious until after days and many hours of pushing her into it she said something like "Fine, whatever" and they arrested her.

That's utterly retarded.

[Ryan Elliott]

The only case I can recall off the top of my head was one where a woman sorta joked about hiring someone to kill her husband and the cops kept bugging her about it, begging and pleading even after she told the decoy no and they had the whole thing on tape with her saying she wasn't serious until after days and many hours of pushing her into it she said something like "Fine, whatever" and they arrested her.



Chargers were shit on and then thrown out and then those cops were fined, suspended and beaten, of course?

[Brad N.]

Chargers were shit on and then thrown out and then those cops were fined, suspended and beaten, of course?

Yeah, this was many years ago so I'm fuzzy on a lot of the details, but I seem to recall at first it sounded like the woman was going to go to prison and much later as it got closer to trial the tape came out and the officers were fired and she was obviously cleared. But yeah, the point being actual entrapment doesn't happen very often and even when it does it is usually not this obvious to prove.

Some people are under the impression that sting operations are entrapment or anytime cops go undercover as drug dealers or hookers that they are entrapping people and that's simply not the case. My story about the cops more or less forcing that lady into agreeing to have her husband killed was entrapment. Guys talking to what they assume are kids on the internet and talking sexually to them, showing them nude photos, and making plans to meet them for an encounter is in no way even close to entrapment.