Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition

[copypastepuke]

specific:
WHERE IS MY GNOME BARD?

[J. R. Scherer]

specific:
WHERE IS MY GNOME BARD?

I could have done without 3 elf races in the PHB myself, too, but really, creating a gnome character is pretty easy, even if you don't have the specifics that are provided in the Monster Manual. Swap the name 'halfling' for gnome, give him some free cantrips instead of the second chance power, and then if you want to play a bard give him the warlord class using the inspiring warlord build and say he sings and performs and stuff in order to use his powers.

[J. R. Scherer]

Barbarian Playtest is up now.

http://www.wizards.com/files/368_Playtest_Barbarian.pdf

[Rico]

I played D&D from just about the start of it all. But I have no plans to buy or play 4th edition. To me it's like them putting out a new Monopoly game every year and dropping Boardwalk one time and Park Place next year. Sigh... :(

[TheTravis!]

My buddies and I are gearing up for our yearly getaway where we rent a cabin by a loake here in Iowa and do extremely nerdy shit for the entire weekend. We're going to be playing two 4E games, the Keep on the Shadowfell one I'm running with currently 2nd level characters, and another paragon tier that's a carry-over from 3.5. We actually haven't played any of these paragon tier characters in 4E yet, so we're all looking forward to it. We just recently stumbled across Magic Set Editor which we've been using to create quick reference cards for keeping track of initiative. I thought I'd share the results. I think they look pretty damned sweet, myself.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/Axness/Smilies/DrazhakKivolzolnierz.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/Axness/Smilies/OrzelandOslada.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v491/Axness/Mindaris44.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-Chzelle3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-Valentine.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-HoratioHellstrom.jpg



In this homebrew we're using the pantheon of 'The Seven' from George R. R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire for our gods.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-Requiem.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-IRONBLOOD.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-Unhold-Mrder.jpg
This one is my character, and he's a once human paladin that was resurrected by The Seven to continue the good fight, but this time in a body forged by The Smith. So, yeah, I totally got everything from Thor-as-Destroyer, and I do try to speak in Elizabethan 'thees' and 'thous' when I'm playing him. He's probably my all-time favorite D&D caracter now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-FargrimmStonebreaker.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-Basnir.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-Elgin-1.jpg




OK. That's just about the coolest thing I have ever seen. Where does one find the Magic Card editor?

[TheTravis!]

I could have done without 3 elf races in the PHB myself, too, but really, creating a gnome character is pretty easy, even if you don't have the specifics that are provided in the Monster Manual. Swap the name 'halfling' for gnome, give him some free cantrips instead of the second chance power, and then if you want to play a bard give him the warlord class using the inspiring warlord build and say he sings and performs and stuff in order to use his powers.

Or wait until this coming March, because gnomes and bards are all but guaranteed for PHB2.

[TheTravis!]

Barbarian Playtest is up now.

http://www.wizards.com/files/368_Playtest_Barbarian.pdf

I'm surprised to see the Barbarian as a striker, since historically, that class has been all about soaking up damage. But I like what I'm seeing in the playtest.

[J. R. Scherer]

OK. That's just about the coolest thing I have ever seen. Where does one find the Magic Card editor?

Here. (http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/)

[TheTravis!]

Here. (http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/)

I kind of want to make out with you now.

[copypastepuke]

I could have done without 3 elf races in the PHB myself, too, but really, creating a gnome character is pretty easy, even if you don't have the specifics that are provided in the Monster Manual. Swap the name 'halfling' for gnome, give him some free cantrips instead of the second chance power, and then if you want to play a bard give him the warlord class using the inspiring warlord build and say he sings and performs and stuff in order to use his powers.yeah i dont want fifteen different variations of elves.

[TheTravis!]

yeah i dont want fifteen different variations of elves.

There are two. What's the big deal?

[J. R. Scherer]

I kind of want to make out with you now.

Par for course.

[J. R. Scherer]

There are two. What's the big deal?

Three if you count half-elves. And I do.

[TheTravis!]

Three if you count half-elves. And I do.

Oh yeah. I forget about half-elves.

[Talannon]

I am a player in 1 game of 4th edition and I also DM 1 game. The only thing I am really missing now is the lack of monsters. I really want that second monster manual coming out next year. Since both games are pretty much the same players, we see a lot of the same monsters and it can get annoying... If I want to put a solo monsters I must put a young dragon or I have to create one. While I create all my settings and quest, I really hate creating monsters...

But so far I believe that it's a much better system then 3.5. Everyone in my group prefer 4th edition over 3.5 so it wasn't hard to switch to this version.

[J. R. Scherer]

That reminds me...

I created some initiative cards to use for monsters as well.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY4.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY6.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY8.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY9.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY10.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY11.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY12.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY13.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY14.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY15.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY16.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY17.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY18.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY19.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY20.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/BadGuys/card-BADGUY21.jpg

[J. R. Scherer]

I am a player in 1 game of 4th edition and I also DM 1 game. The only thing I am really missing now is the lack of monsters. I really want that second monster manual coming out next year. Since both games are pretty much the same players, we see a lot of the same monsters and it can get annoying... If I want to put a solo monsters I must put a young dragon or I have to create one. While I create all my settings and quest, I really hate creating monsters...

But so far I believe that it's a much better system then 3.5. Everyone in my group prefer 4th edition over 3.5 so it wasn't hard to switch to this version.

I haven't run into that issue yet, but I could see it happening. I find that humanoids tend to make or the best monsters anyway, though.

[TheTravis!]

I am running a 4th edition demo this week and next week. Then somebody else starts DMing for a few months. I'm thinking of adapting the old Second Edition "Night Below" campaign to 4th edition.

[The Human Target]

yeah i dont want fifteen different variations of elves.

There have been two in all previous editions of DnD. (Elves and Half-Elves)

There are now three- Elves, Half-Elves, and Eladrin.

No big thing IMO.

Gnomes can currently be played, as they have stats in the back of the Monster Manual. ANd if you squint, Warlords make decent replacements for Bards.

But both Gnomes and Bards will have full right ups in the Players Handbook 2, coming out in I believe March.

[The Human Target]

Oh, and JR those are fucking tits.

Great pictures choices for the bad guys especially.

[TheTravis!]

This thread needs more action. When i wasn't on board with 4e, you guys wouldn't shut up. Now that I'm all excited about it, it's deader than disco in here. Entertain and inform me, bitches!

[The Human Target]

I know.

I keep meaning to post in this thread more, but I'm fucking laaaaazy.

Okay, I'll start typing up my main 4E experiences so far.

It should be done by...... June.

[J. R. Scherer]

This thread needs more action. When i wasn't on board with 4e, you guys wouldn't shut up. Now that I'm all excited about it, it's deader than disco in here. Entertain and inform me, bitches!

I try... :(

[The Human Target]

Now now, JR does a mighty good job.

I'm going to be DMing part of my regular group on off weeknights!

Three PCs, unaligned, running amok in Waterdeep.

I'm so pumped!

[DanLTaylor]

I'm hoping to be more active with D&D 4E related projects soon, so get that mirrored ball a spinnin'!

[TheTravis!]

First 4E game tonight! Wish me luck!

[J. R. Scherer]

First 4E game tonight! Wish me luck!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/d20HitIt.jpg

[The Human Target]

First 4E game tonight! Wish me luck!

Good luck and have fun dude!

Remember to force them to make Monster Knowledge checks at the start of encounters!

Its been fun for us so far when we know a monster is a Doppelganger but our characters have no fucking clue why some grey guy can change shape.

[Nick Hale]

I've been kinda out of board life for a while which is why i've been silent here. I've also put my 4e game on hold to run Dark Heresy (which is now one of my favorite rules sets).

The guy who runs my regular friday 3.5 game is going to be running a 4e game where we will all be playing humanoids normally thought to be evil. I know at this point we have a Goblin Artificer, a Minotaur paladin, and me as a Orc Warrior.

The game is going to be from the perspective of those type of races, all trying to live together in harmony in a valley. The only problem is that those stupid humans, elves, dwarves and whatnot keep trying to come in and raid our lands with their "adventuring parties" buncha assholes.

[TheTravis!]

OK! First 4e game in the bag!

I used the FRPG day module "Treasure of Talon Pass". Five players - each chose randomly from one of five pregen characters I had brought - dwarven wizard, elf ranger, halfling rogue, human cleric, and tiefling paladin.

The bad -
- It's probably my inexperience with the ruleset, but ruling on skill checks is a little difficult for me. The guy playing the halfling rogue is probably the mostexperienced player I have. He's used to 3.5 tumble checks, and other abilities to maneuver around the battlefield. Last night he was confronted by two wolves blocking his path. He wanted to get on the other side of them and set up a flank. So he asked if he could make an acrobatics stunt to flip over the wolves. I set the DC at 20 and let him try it. He failed, and I ruled that he ended up prone in front of the wolves. He then used his Tumble encounter ability to roll away from the wolves into a safe square. Soooooooooo many questions coming from that - What are the rules for moving through occupied squares (I couldn't find them), can you tumble from a prone position, etc.
- Line of sight/line of effect/cover still confuse the shit out of me (They did in 3.5 as well).
- It's going to take everyone a while to get used to the 4 different attack modes (AC, Fort, Ref, Will)

The good
- Everyone seemed to have a blast. My one player who has been really against 4e ended up playing the tiefling paladin wielding a glaive. He had a kickass time acting almost as a secondary controller, standing in front of the party and wailing on orcs as they tried to get near him or past him to the rest of the group.
- The ease of play is remarkable. In a 3-hour session, we only got through 3 encounters, but I am convinced that is just because the rules are so new. As we get more experienced with the mechanics, I have no doubt that most combats will fly by. And, as one of my players pointed out, in 3.5, there is almost no way a group of 2nd level characters would have made it through 3 encounters and still be raring to go.
- Everyone loved having characters that, even at low levels, were still kicking ass and taking names. The guy playing the ranger was dishing out 23 points of damage per round, on average.
- My wife had never played before. At all. By the end of the night, she was right in there with us, and making some awesome moves (she really liked turning undead). The guy who was playing the dwarf wizard has traditionally been our weakest link. He tended in 3.5 to play characters who were completely ineffectual in combat, due to bad builds. If it were up to me, I would NEVER have given him a character more complicated than a human fighter in 3.5. Here, he played a WIZARD, and he KICKED ASS.
- Everyone loved the simplification of saves and crits. We had 2 crits last night, and both times it was super satisfying to see the player smile when they realized they didn't have to roll again to confirm the crit. The rogue also critted on a wight, which made him incredibly happy ("I can crit undead? AWESOME!"). When the rogue was under a spell effect, hearing him say, 'What's the DC on the save?" and me saying, "Dude, it's soooooooo much beter than that now" was deeply awesome as well.
- Minions are fun. It was really awesome to have the characters able to plow through hordes of evil redshirts.
- I was thoroughly surprised at how instinctive the class roles were for most of the players. The strikers were using hit and run tactics against the toughest opponents. The wizard was staying to the back of the party and using burst spells to take out blocks of minions. The cleric was boosting allies and healing when necessary, and the defender was acting like a wall of kickass, blocking the rest of the party from attack. Compare this to my 3.5 experiences with the same group, where we had characters who served no role at all (bards in particular), and the rest of the party just running around trying to be the first to kill something.

Conclusion - I LOVE 4e. It is a much different game from the previous editions, but godDAMN it's fun. I'm going to run two more weeks of the demo, letting the players switch characters each week. Then my most experienced player is going to start running a campaign, with me helping the other players make rules calls and tactical decisions (I want to play an Elladrin Warlord - That should be appropriate).

[Nick Hale]

Sounds awesome Travis, 6 months ago I would have never guessed you'd be someone posting that lol.

I'm looking forward to this evil creatures game, unfortunately I think the player who is so against 4e is still super against it even though he seemed to be having fun, it seems like he's just doing that on principle now.

[TheTravis!]

Sounds awesome Travis, 6 months ago I would have never guessed you'd be someone posting that lol.

I never would have guessed it, either. And I'm very happy to be eating my words.

I think a big factor that pushed me over the edge was running the Shackled City campaign. It's a great campaign, but I was doing at least 2 hours of prep per week for a three hour session. Also, my most experienced player is also a pretty hardcore powergamer, and he was continuously coming to the table with these ridiculously munchkined characters. Three base classes and two Prestige classes each.

I read something somewhere about the inherent disparity between experienced 3.5 players who optimize their characters to the nth degree, and new 3.5 players who really just want/need to play a straightforward build, and how that can disrupt a campaign. I completely buy into that now. Hopefully, 4e stays balanced and consistent with their mechanics.

[The Human Target]

OK! First 4e game in the bag!

I used the FRPG day module "Treasure of Talon Pass". Five players - each chose randomly from one of five pregen characters I had brought - dwarven wizard, elf ranger, halfling rogue, human cleric, and tiefling paladin.

The bad -
- It's probably my inexperience with the ruleset, but ruling on skill checks is a little difficult for me. The guy playing the halfling rogue is probably the mostexperienced player I have. He's used to 3.5 tumble checks, and other abilities to maneuver around the battlefield. Last night he was confronted by two wolves blocking his path. He wanted to get on the other side of them and set up a flank. So he asked if he could make an acrobatics stunt to flip over the wolves. I set the DC at 20 and let him try it. He failed, and I ruled that he ended up prone in front of the wolves. He then used his Tumble encounter ability to roll away from the wolves into a safe square. Soooooooooo many questions coming from that - What are the rules for moving through occupied squares (I couldn't find them), can you tumble from a prone position, etc.
- Line of sight/line of effect/cover still confuse the shit out of me (They did in 3.5 as well).
- It's going to take everyone a while to get used to the 4 different attack modes (AC, Fort, Ref, Will)

The good
- Everyone seemed to have a blast. My one player who has been really against 4e ended up playing the tiefling paladin wielding a glaive. He had a kickass time acting almost as a secondary controller, standing in front of the party and wailing on orcs as they tried to get near him or past him to the rest of the group.
- The ease of play is remarkable. In a 3-hour session, we only got through 3 encounters, but I am convinced that is just because the rules are so new. As we get more experienced with the mechanics, I have no doubt that most combats will fly by. And, as one of my players pointed out, in 3.5, there is almost no way a group of 2nd level characters would have made it through 3 encounters and still be raring to go.
- Everyone loved having characters that, even at low levels, were still kicking ass and taking names. The guy playing the ranger was dishing out 23 points of damage per round, on average.
- My wife had never played before. At all. By the end of the night, she was right in there with us, and making some awesome moves (she really liked turning undead). The guy who was playing the dwarf wizard has traditionally been our weakest link. He tended in 3.5 to play characters who were completely ineffectual in combat, due to bad builds. If it were up to me, I would NEVER have given him a character more complicated than a human fighter in 3.5. Here, he played a WIZARD, and he KICKED ASS.
- Everyone loved the simplification of saves and crits. We had 2 crits last night, and both times it was super satisfying to see the player smile when they realized they didn't have to roll again to confirm the crit. The rogue also critted on a wight, which made him incredibly happy ("I can crit undead? AWESOME!"). When the rogue was under a spell effect, hearing him say, 'What's the DC on the save?" and me saying, "Dude, it's soooooooo much beter than that now" was deeply awesome as well.
- Minions are fun. It was really awesome to have the characters able to plow through hordes of evil redshirts.
- I was thoroughly surprised at how instinctive the class roles were for most of the players. The strikers were using hit and run tactics against the toughest opponents. The wizard was staying to the back of the party and using burst spells to take out blocks of minions. The cleric was boosting allies and healing when necessary, and the defender was acting like a wall of kickass, blocking the rest of the party from attack. Compare this to my 3.5 experiences with the same group, where we had characters who served no role at all (bards in particular), and the rest of the party just running around trying to be the first to kill something.

Conclusion - I LOVE 4e. It is a much different game from the previous editions, but godDAMN it's fun. I'm going to run two more weeks of the demo, letting the players switch characters each week. Then my most experienced player is going to start running a campaign, with me helping the other players make rules calls and tactical decisions (I want to play an Elladrin Warlord - That should be appropriate).

First, I'm super glad you had that much fun. Thats pretty much what out first 4E game was like as well, a little confusion and a lot of fun.

Second, its so awesome you turned Jenifu into a gamer. You should be proud.

[J. R. Scherer]

I ran my Keep on the Shadowfell game twice over my short vacation and got to play once in the paragon tier game. So much fun.

In Keep on the Shadowfell the party has cleared out about 2/3 of the first level of the keep. The last encounter before we stopped was the Blue Slime solo brute and it knocked two characters out, first the human wizard that kept casting spells within the slime's reach of two which meant he kept getting whaled on by opportunity attacks and then the dragonborn warlord got tagged by a natural 20 right after he Inspiring Worded the wizard back to consciousness. While the rest of the party was trying to save him from being eaten by the blue slime, the warlord failed two death saving throws, came within 2 hit points of reaching negative his bloodied value in hp, and then rolled a natural 20 on his last death saving throw and popped right back up, just in time for the slime to be killed and then explode acid all over him. Very tense moment and lots of fun!

In the paragon tier game it was like being first level all over again, only with lots more hp and more powers to choose from, as we didn't really know how to work together at all with those characters yet. Lots of player characters running around willy nilly and being separated from the paladin and cleric characters who could've helped them get out of their various jams. I imagine that if we had played these characters from heroic tier on through to paragon we would've been insanely effective just judging by how well the same group of players' 2nd level characters learned to use teamwork.

[J. R. Scherer]

Also, those initiative cards are awesome and speed play like crazy!

[Nick Hale]

Also, those initiative cards are awesome and speed play like crazy!

Yeah we are using initiative cards now for pretty much every game I'm in since i started using them in my 4e game. It really does make things so much smoother.

[The Hodag]

In Keep on the Shadowfell the party has cleared out about 2/3 of the first level of the keep. The last encounter before we stopped was the Blue Slime solo brute and it knocked two characters out, first the human wizard that kept casting spells within the slime's reach of two which meant he kept getting whaled on by opportunity attacks and then the dragonborn warlord got tagged by a natural 20 right after he Inspiring Worded the wizard back to consciousness. While the rest of the party was trying to save him from being eaten by the blue slime, the warlord failed two death saving throws, came within 2 hit points of reaching negative his bloodied value in hp, and then rolled a natural 20 on his last death saving throw and popped right back up, just in time for the slime to be killed and then explode acid all over him. Very tense moment and lots of fun!


That sounds painfully similar to my party's encounter with the slime. I don't remember a lot of specifics from it, but I remember that I was the one who pressed the party into searching the area (playing a rogue for the first time; generally loving it), and I also fled immediately when it popped up and dealt out some nasty damage. I figured everyone would follow suit - it seemed a bit tough for us - but they stayed around and I ended up having to race back to help out in what became a really brutal combat.

I think at least one person went unconscious and one or two others were on the cusp. I remember wondering if I could use my Acrobatics/Athletics to in some way haul our paladin out of the water around the slime's "island" if he went unconscious in it, but we managed to stop it just before it reached that point. Good fight. I've always been a casual D&D'er, so I don't know monster stats that well, and barely know the 4th Ed changes at all. It's fun to fight monsters whose abilities are genuine mysteries. :scared: :lol:

And remind me, did it have anything of note in its loot? Just some gold as I recall, leftover from its victims.

[The Hodag]

Open question for all players and DMs here: how much "flavor text" flourish does your group use in combat? Are monsters described in detail, possibly mysteriously, or do you prefer to immediately name them and get to the fighting? When you "just" hit a monster by barely rolling over his AC, do you ever describe it analogously ("we must've had an intense exchange of weapons, and I just managed to turn his sword away for a second to jab my own in"). Do you like to act out the combat stuff with some drama, or are, say, critical hits just favorable numbers in a strategic battle?

I'm always curious about this stuff.

[J. R. Scherer]

Open question for all players and DMs here: how much "flavor text" flourish does your group use in combat? Are monsters described in detail, possibly mysteriously, or do you prefer to immediately name them and get to the fighting? When you "just" hit a monster by barely rolling over his AC, do you ever describe it analogously ("we must've had an intense exchange of weapons, and I just managed to turn his sword away for a second to jab my own in"). Do you like to act out the combat stuff with some drama, or are, say, critical hits just favorable numbers in a strategic battle?

I'm always curious about this stuff.

I always add lots of 'flavor text'. I describe every monster, show pictures if I have them, explain exactly what happens when characters try whatever against them, and have a blast acting all of it out.

[The Hodag]

I always add lots of 'flavor text'. I describe every monster, show pictures if I have them, explain exactly what happens when characters try whatever against them, and have a blast acting all of it out.

That's cool - that's my favorite way to handle it, too, as both player and GM, but it's rare for me to find other GMs (or players) who seem to enjoy it near so much as I do. Clearly I'm a guy who should've taken theater at some point. :lol:

J.R., do your fellow players get into it as much as you? It's always a mix of player types, of course, but in general are they into that stuff?

[J. R. Scherer]

J.R., do your fellow players get into it as much as you? It's always a mix of player types, of course, but in general are they into that stuff?


Definitely. My group absolutely gets into it. Half of us will regularly jump up from the table to act out whatever super-cool (or so we think at the time) thing it is our character is up to. That half seems to rotate depending on how lazy the rest of us are at the moment. Our goal is to entertain. If everyone laughs or the general consensus is that the action was indeed super-cool then that player gets an extra action point.

[TheTravis!]

Open question for all players and DMs here: how much "flavor text" flourish does your group use in combat? Are monsters described in detail, possibly mysteriously, or do you prefer to immediately name them and get to the fighting? When you "just" hit a monster by barely rolling over his AC, do you ever describe it analogously ("we must've had an intense exchange of weapons, and I just managed to turn his sword away for a second to jab my own in"). Do you like to act out the combat stuff with some drama, or are, say, critical hits just favorable numbers in a strategic battle?

I'm always curious about this stuff.

I try to use a decent amount. I had one player who INSISTED on gruesome flavor text whenever he hit ("You crush it's head with your maul. It makes a sound like a melon being dropped onto rock, and the eyeballs shoot across the room and hit the wizard on his hat.") but he has since moved away for work, so I can dial it down a little.

Usually, by the end of the session, I am a little too tired to go balls out with the flavor text.

[J. R. Scherer]

You have to pay for D&D Insider now.

:cry:

[TheTravis!]

You have to pay for D&D Insider now.

:cry:

How much?

[Generic Poster]

How much?

Seven electrum pieces per fortnight.

[TheTravis!]

Seven electrum pieces per fortnight.

Zounds!

[Generic Poster]

I miss electrum pieces. :(

[J. R. Scherer]

I deal only in residuum these days.

[Shawn_Kehoe]

How much?

A year-long subscription is $60. That includes Dragon, Dungeon and the Rules Compendium. Shorter subscriptions can be obtained as well.

[TheTravis!]

A year-long subscription is $60. That includes Dragon, Dungeon and the Rules Compendium. Shorter subscriptions can be obtained as well.

That's completely reasonable.

[artimoff]

I long for actual paper magazines. I'll never play 4e (other than any new D&D computer games) but I'd still buy the magazines. :sad:

[The Human Target]

Of course, they make me start having to pay to look at shit right when I want to see Strahd's 4E stats for my Ravenloft game.

Now to call my sister and ask her to buy me a year subscription for Christmas.

[J. R. Scherer]

For those of you that have played in Keep on the Shadowfell--what did you wind up doing with Splug, the goblin that is caged up on the first level?

In mine, Splug is currently acting as the group's henchman (henchgob?) and carrying their junk, cleaning their gear, gleefully looting corpses, etc. I'm DMing and I don't currently have any plans for Splug to be anything but helpful if sometime odd/annoying henchman. I even made up an initiative card for him today.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-Splug1.jpg

[TheTravis!]

Splug is the new Meepo.

[PeteL]

I envy all of your actual play stories.

[Nick Hale]

One of my player's killed Splug just to be a dick, everyone else was enjoying him. He had been going through a rough time (parent's getting a divorce) and was kinda being a dick in general. I had set him up to be a henchman and actually planned on giving him a level or two of rogue as I kept having him jump into combat bare handed and he never died.

When he was killed he was unarmed and tried to submit, the player after killing him immediately said he wouldn't have killed him if he would have not tried to defend himself... which made no sense.

[TheTravis!]

Looks like instead of getting to play 4e, I will be DMing. I'm headed out to buy Keep on the Shadowfell right after work.

I also need to find a new player now. Goddammit.

[J. R. Scherer]

One of my player's killed Splug just to be a dick, everyone else was enjoying him. He had been going through a rough time (parent's getting a divorce) and was kinda being a dick in general. I had set him up to be a henchman and actually planned on giving him a level or two of rogue as I kept having him jump into combat bare handed and he never died.

When he was killed he was unarmed and tried to submit, the player after killing him immediately said he wouldn't have killed him if he would have not tried to defend himself... which made no sense.
http://pcmedia.gamespy.com/pc/image/article/747/747222/iwarhammer-age-of-reckoningi-the-hordes-of-chaos-20061121050237360.jpg

[J. R. Scherer]

Looks like instead of getting to play 4e, I will be DMing. I'm headed out to buy Keep on the Shadowfell right after work.

I also need to find a new player now. Goddammit.

I get to do both!

Yay, me!



But only about once a quarter. :(

[Nick Hale]

http://pcmedia.gamespy.com/pc/image/article/747/747222/iwarhammer-age-of-reckoningi-the-hordes-of-chaos-20061121050237360.jpg

Argh I can't see the pic :( Gotta wait til I get home. I'm really bored though.

[The Human Target]

Some of us wanted to let Splug go.

I figured the little dickwad would rat us out to the other goblins to get in our good graces, so we gave him food and water and left him in his cell.

Towards the end of the adventure, after we had to leave the Keep and go back in, Splug showed up and got into a one on one duel with our party's Rogue.

Bye bye Splug.

We've already adopted a Goblin in a previous campaign, so I think we kinda didn't want to repeat ourselves.

[Shawn_Kehoe]

Looks like instead of getting to play 4e, I will be DMing. I'm headed out to buy Keep on the Shadowfell right after work.

I also need to find a new player now. Goddammit.

Don't forget that Dungeon is running the 18-module adventure path that's a sequel to Red Hand of Doom!

[copypastepuke]

There are two. What's the big deal?
gnomes were my favorite! :sad:and im whining!:Oops:

[copypastepuke]

is the online stuff ready and up and running? anyone used it yet? i know i remember reading about it

[J. R. Scherer]

gnomes were my favorite! :sad:and im whining!:Oops:

One of the players in our paragon tier game is playing a gnome.


RACIAL TRAITS
Average Height: 3'4" - 3'8"
Average Weight: 50 - 75

Ability scores: +2 Charisma, +2 Intelligence
Size: Small
Speed: 5 squares.
Vision: Low-light

Languages: Common, Elven
Skill Bonuses: +2 Arcana, +2 Stealth.
Fade Away: You can use fade away as an encounter power.
Reactive Stealth: If you have cover or concealment when you make an initiative check, you can make a Stealth check to escape notice.


Fade Away Gnome Racial Power

You turn invisible in response to an enemy’s attack.
Encounter * Illusion
Immediate Reaction Personal
Trigger: You take damage.
Effect: You are invisible until you attack or until the end of your next turn.

[Nick Hale]

http://pcmedia.gamespy.com/pc/image/article/747/747222/iwarhammer-age-of-reckoningi-the-hordes-of-chaos-20061121050237360.jpg

If finally figure out what this is, and I agree entirely.

Also, for this game that I'm playing an Orc in I decide to splurge on a cool mini, ordered a box of Warhammer Orcs and built one then sent it to a pro painting service to get it painted.

Here's what came out of this.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/nhale97/Orc.jpg

[The Human Target]

If finally figure out what this is, and I agree entirely.

Also, for this game that I'm playing an Orc in I decide to splurge on a cool mini, ordered a box of Warhammer Orcs and built one then sent it to a pro painting service to get it painted.

Here's what came out of this.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/nhale97/Orc.jpg

Your head looks like Slimer. :)

[DanLTaylor]

If finally figure out what this is, and I agree entirely.

Also, for this game that I'm playing an Orc in I decide to splurge on a cool mini, ordered a box of Warhammer Orcs and built one then sent it to a pro painting service to get it painted.

Here's what came out of this.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/nhale97/Orc.jpg

Nice.

[J. R. Scherer]

If finally figure out what this is, and I agree entirely.

Also, for this game that I'm playing an Orc in I decide to splurge on a cool mini, ordered a box of Warhammer Orcs and built one then sent it to a pro painting service to get it painted.

Here's what came out of this.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/nhale97/Orc.jpg

Not bad at all. Is it what you had wanted from them?

I can't find any warforged/golem/heavily armored minis that match my character at all. :cry:

[TheTravis!]

Not bad at all. Is it what you had wanted from them?

I can't find any warforged/golem/heavily armored minis that match my character at all. :cry:


Reaper has a couple really good options for warforged.

[TheTravis!]

Don't forget that Dungeon is running the 18-module adventure path that's a sequel to Red Hand of Doom!

I'm going to run that eventually, because RHOD is my all time favorite D&D campaign I have ever run. But I'm going to wait until all 18 parts are available so that I can do it right, and properly foreshadow things.

[TheTravis!]

If finally figure out what this is, and I agree entirely.

Also, for this game that I'm playing an Orc in I decide to splurge on a cool mini, ordered a box of Warhammer Orcs and built one then sent it to a pro painting service to get it painted.

Here's what came out of this.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a399/nhale97/Orc.jpg

I could do better.

[copypastepuke]

is the online stuff ready and up and running? anyone used it yet? i know i remember reading about itanythign anyone bueller bueller

[J. R. Scherer]

anythign anyone bueller bueller

www.wizards.com/dnd

[Nick Hale]

Not bad at all. Is it what you had wanted from them?

I can't find any warforged/golem/heavily armored minis that match my character at all. :cry:

That's basically exactly what I wanted, on my request I just asked them to make it really orkie though, which they managed to do a good job of.

Like I said, I ordered the model itself and put it together, they just did the paint, they do custom figures as well and are really quite good. I'm going to get them to do a Warhammer 40k army eventually.

Their website is www.bluetablepainting.com and Sean is the owner. They have a TON of projects in their gallery online that shows what they can do. The Orc I got was a level 5 project.

[J. R. Scherer]

That's basically exactly what I wanted, on my request I just asked them to make it really orkie though, which they managed to do a good job of.

Like I said, I ordered the model itself and put it together, they just did the paint, they do custom figures as well and are really quite good. I'm going to get them to do a Warhammer 40k army eventually.

Their website is www.bluetablepainting.com and Sean is the owner. They have a TON of projects in their gallery online that shows what they can do. The Orc I got was a level 5 project.

This mini is not too far off, if he were available without a shield and had wings instead of horns on the helmet.


http://www.bluetablepainting.com/gallery_images/1154377445.jpg

[TheTravis!]

This mini is not too far off, if he were available without a shield and had wings instead of horns on the helmet.


http://www.bluetablepainting.com/gallery_images/1154377445.jpg


You should look around and see if they ever made a Marvel Heroclix figure that could work.

[J. R. Scherer]

You should look around and see if they ever made a Marvel Heroclix figure that could work.

Unless they're gargantuan, like the Cthulhu, Spectre, or Fin Fang Foom, I've found the quality of the HeroClix figures to be really subpar.

[Shawn_Kehoe]

Speaking of Minis - Wizards is making big changes to how they sell D&D minis next year.

Monsters and Hero/PC models will no longer be sold in the same randomised boosters. PCs will be sold in non-randomised, fully visible 3-mini packs. Monsters will be sold in 5 - mini boosters, with one mini fully visible. The sets will be smaller (40 figures) and will be themed around monster manuals.

[Shawn_Kehoe]

Also, Dragon ran a cool 2-part article this week about gladiatorial D&D campaigns. Worth checking out!

[Nick Hale]

Speaking of Minis - Wizards is making big changes to how they sell D&D minis next year.

Monsters and Hero/PC models will no longer be sold in the same randomised boosters. PCs will be sold in non-randomised, fully visible 3-mini packs. Monsters will be sold in 5 - mini boosters, with one mini fully visible. The sets will be smaller (40 figures) and will be themed around monster manuals.

This makes me happy, I've refused to buy D&D minis specfically because of this, the thought of not having any clue as to what monsters i'd get annoys me.

[J. R. Scherer]

Yeah, random minis is fun, like, once. After that I just hunted for the minis I specifically wanted.

[TheTravis!]

I just started buying the D&D minis. I'm kind of addicted.

[artimoff]

Speaking of Minis - Wizards is making big changes to how they sell D&D minis next year.

Monsters and Hero/PC models will no longer be sold in the same randomised boosters. PCs will be sold in non-randomised, fully visible 3-mini packs. Monsters will be sold in 5 - mini boosters, with one mini fully visible. The sets will be smaller (40 figures) and will be themed around monster manuals.

There goes more of my hard earned cash.

[Shawn_Kehoe]

Also, it looks like the minis are purely for RPG now ... the skirmish game has been canned.

[J. R. Scherer]

Also, it looks like the minis are purely for RPG now ... the skirmish game has been canned.

I never purchased any minis for the skirmish game myself.

[TheTravis!]

I kind of wish WOTC would release lead versions of the minis again. The sculpt was way better than the plastic, and I could paint them the way I wanted.

[Nick Hale]

I kind of wish WOTC would release lead versions of the minis again. The sculpt was way better than the plastic, and I could paint them the way I wanted.

You probably want Pewter rather than Lead, just sayin. :)

[TheTravis!]

You probably want Pewter rather than Lead, just sayin. :)

I'm not going to eat it or anything.

[J. R. Scherer]

I'm not going to eat it or anything.

Then why even bother!?

[TheTravis!]

Then why even bother!?

I work too hard painting my little people to turn around and eat them!

[TheTravis!]

In other news - I have to put together a 4e campaign by the third week of November. I've decided to adapt Temple of Elemental Evil to 4e. I'm using Keep on the Shadowfell as the introductory adventure, but base it in a version of Hommlet (I'm calling the town Starhollow sp nobody realizes that they're playing Temple until they get into the Temple). I'm also changing the town of Nulb into a haunted ghost town, and using Thunderspire Labyrinth as a nearby location where all the ex-residents of Nulb have fled. Should hopefully be a fun campaign. I figure levels 1-10 will be adventures around the Temple, then 11-20 will be adventures IN the Temple proper.

We'll see how it goes. Wish me luck.

[J. R. Scherer]

In other news - I have to put together a 4e campaign by the third week of November. I've decided to adapt Temple of Elemental Evil to 4e. I'm using Keep on the Shadowfell as the introductory adventure, but base it in a version of Hommlet (I'm calling the town Starhollow sp nobody realizes that they're playing Temple until they get into the Temple). I'm also changing the town of Nulb into a haunted ghost town, and using Thunderspire Labyrinth as a nearby location where all the ex-residents of Nulb have fled. Should hopefully be a fun campaign. I figure levels 1-10 will be adventures around the Temple, then 11-20 will be adventures IN the Temple proper.

We'll see how it goes. Wish me luck.


Could be cool. My players are probably in for another couple of levels of KotS if I decide to play it out according to the book. I'm getting kind of antsy dungeon-crawling, though. I'll probably send them to a city for some Lankhmar-style action as soon as I can.

[TheTravis!]

Could be cool. My players are probably in for another couple of levels of KotS if I decide to play it out according to the book. I'm getting kind of antsy dungeon-crawling, though. I'll probably send them to a city for some Lankhmar-style action as soon as I can.

I am thinking that early on I am going to set up the cult of Orcus as opposition for the PCs, but as they delve deeper into the Temple, they realize that the cult of Orcus was trying to keep the Temple closed, to prevent Tharizdun from getting a foothold back in this reality.

[J. R. Scherer]

I am thinking that early on I am going to set up the cult of Orcus as opposition for the PCs, but as they delve deeper into the Temple, they realize that the cult of Orcus was trying to keep the Temple closed, to prevent Tharizdun from getting a foothold back in this reality.

I like the sound of that. I might steal it.

[TheTravis!]

I like the sound of that. I might steal it.

Steal away.

[The Hodag]

Quick rules question...

A friend of mine is playing a Paladin and we're a little confused at the wording of the Paladin's Divine Challenge. Specifically this bit:


While a target is marked, it takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn't include you as a target. Also, it takes radiant damage equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier the first time it makes an attack that doesn't include you as a target before the start of your next turn.

It's that second line that seems confusing. Exactly how does that work? Does it go off only once in an encounter, or only once in a round, or...?

[TheTravis!]

Quick rules question...

A friend of mine is playing a Paladin and we're a little confused at the wording of the Paladin's Divine Challenge. Specifically this bit:



It's that second line that seems confusing. Exactly how does that work? Does it go off only once in an encounter, or only once in a round, or...?

I read it as an effect that lasts for the round in which you mark a target. Every time you mark a new target, that effect applies for the first round in which it is marked.

That power actually caused one of the best moments in the demo game I have been running. The tiefling paladin marked a kobold warpriest who had been messing the party up. The warpriest was then positioned so that it had to draw Opportunity Attacks before it could reach the paladin. In frustration, the kobold weighed it's options and tried a close burst effect to get the other PCs off of it, and in response, a shaft of divine energy dropped from the sky, incinerating him.

[Shawn_Kehoe]

Quick rules question...

A friend of mine is playing a Paladin and we're a little confused at the wording of the Paladin's Divine Challenge. Specifically this bit:



It's that second line that seems confusing. Exactly how does that work? Does it go off only once in an encounter, or only once in a round, or...?

I just checked the Compendium and the wording is still current.

As I read it, the enemy will suffer that damage on their first attack for each turn that the challenged condition persists. The reason they specify this is so that someone using an area attack doesn't take damage for each attack roll they make with the power.

If during your next turn you continue to fulfill the conditions of divine challenge, the retributive effect resets.

[Shawn_Kehoe]

And since Divine Challenge is an At-Will power with a minor action, your Paladin could just cast it every turn anyways, unless he needs to open a door or drink a potion.

[The Human Target]

Quick rules question...

A friend of mine is playing a Paladin and we're a little confused at the wording of the Paladin's Divine Challenge. Specifically this bit:



It's that second line that seems confusing. Exactly how does that work? Does it go off only once in an encounter, or only once in a round, or...?

It goes off once per round, if the triggering events occur.

The pally has to burn his minor action ever round to keep the power up and running.

[Arion]

It goes off once per round, if the triggering events occur.

The pally has to burn his minor action ever round to keep the power up and running.

I think I didn't know that.

[The Human Target]

I think I didn't know that.

Its a balancing factor really, since it can be a pretty potent auto-damaging power.

It means that sometimes the Pally is going to have to choose between using Lay on Hands or Divine Mettle (or similar minor action powers) or Divine Challenging someone.

But keep in mind, the Pally is usually going to have a lot of move actions to give up on his turn for minor actions (Fighters and Pallys tend not to move around that much once they close with the enemy.)

So its not a huge pain in the nards most of the time.

[Shawn_Kehoe]

One think I love about 4th Edition that is unrelated to the rules is how they are grouping content for rulebooks:

New Races / Classes: Player's Handbooks and Campaign Player Guides
New Equipment: Adventurer's Vault Supplements
New Monsters: Monster Manual X
New Powers: Martial Power, Arcane Power, etc

Many 3.5 sourcebooks had a very homogeneous feel because marketing was trying to target every sourcebook at DMs AND Players. So the Draconomicon or Libris Mortis would have sections devoted to Prestige Classes, monsters, feats, etc. Hell, even "Dungeon Master's Guide II" was listed as "for DMs and players."

The new approach is focused. Combined with the Campaign Setting plans - 1 per year, 2-3 books per setting tops - it should make for less vanilla sourcebooks.

[The Human Target]

I'd rather new powers for existing classes be added into the new PHBs, but other than that I'm happy with the scheme so far.

I will say the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide book isn't as good as its 3.0 version.

Nor is the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide as good as the Player's Guide to the Realms from 3.5 either.

[The Hodag]

Thanks to all my fellow dungeoneers on the Paladin question! :thumb:

I need to play catch-up on this thread sometime soon. I never even got around to answering the Splug question, but I want to...

[J. R. Scherer]

It goes off once per round, if the triggering events occur.

The pally has to burn his minor action ever round to keep the power up and running.

I agree with Shawn. The paladin does not have to burn a minor action every turn to keep it up. He just needs to make sure that the challenging condition is maintained so that the target remains marked and the first time each turn that the target attacks someone besides the paladin it takes the radiant damage.

[The Human Target]

I agree with Shawn. The paladin does not have to burn a minor action every turn to keep it up. He just needs to make sure that the challenging condition is maintained so that the target remains marked and the first time each turn that the target attacks someone besides the paladin it takes the radiant damage.

You are 100% right.

I got all confused for some reason.

[Shawn_Kehoe]

Wizards has posted the first Domains of Dread article. In 4th edition, the Ravenloft concept exists in the Shadowfell, except that all of the domains are isolated from each other rather than forming a patchwork continent ... which is probably for the best.

The first domain, Sunderheart, is eeeeeevil. The darklord is

an immortal tiefling who is conjoined with the undead body of the lover she murdered.

[TheTravis!]

I'd rather new powers for existing classes be added into the new PHBs, but other than that I'm happy with the scheme so far.

I will say the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide book isn't as good as its 3.0 version.

Nor is the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide as good as the Player's Guide to the Realms from 3.5 either.

Is there anything in there for playing drow as PCs that I'm not going to get from the Monster Manual?

[J. R. Scherer]

Is there anything in there for playing drow as PCs that I'm not going to get from the Monster Manual?

Feats and roleplaying stuff, mainly. 1 or 2 paragon paths. There's more stuff in the recent Dragon article.

[TheTravis!]

Feats and roleplaying stuff, mainly. 1 or 2 paragon paths. There's more stuff in the recent Dragon article.

I need to actually subscribe to DDI. I haven't had a chance yet.

I would presume that everything in the Realms books that is Feat/Power related will eventually make it into the Compendium, correct?

[J. R. Scherer]

I need to actually subscribe to DDI. I haven't had a chance yet.

I would presume that everything in the Realms books that is Feat/Power related will eventually make it into the Compendium, correct?

From what I understand everything that's appeared in recent books like the FRPG and the Adventurer's Vault are already in the Compendium.

[copypastepuke]

i still read dragon insider everytime i can.

do they still release DUNGEON the mag for dungeonmasters

[The Human Target]

Is there anything in there for playing drow as PCs that I'm not going to get from the Monster Manual?

Yeah, the FRPG plus the Children of Darkness expansion they put out online both have a lot for drow PCs that I think is super useful, both in terms of mechanics and fluff.

The Realms books aren't bad, they just aren't that great. Some obvious holes in information and some mechanics make me give them like a C+ or a B-.

[TheTravis!]

Yeah, the FRPG plus the Children of Darkness expansion they put out online both have a lot for drow PCs that I think is super useful, both in terms of mechanics and fluff.

The Realms books aren't bad, they just aren't that great. Some obvious holes in information and some mechanics make me give them like a C+ or a B-.

As a lapsed Realms fan, I still think WOTC kind of screwed up the campaign setting with their "100 years later" concept.

[The Human Target]

As a lapsed Realms fan, I still think WOTC kind of screwed up the campaign setting with their "100 years later" concept.

In theory, I'm fine with it.

In execution, its kinda meh.

I'd have rather they just did a Realms Reloaded kinda Ultimate universe revamp.

[J. R. Scherer]

As a lapsed Realms fan, I still think WOTC kind of screwed up the campaign setting with their "100 years later" concept.

I like it. The Realms were hardly 'Forgotten' before. Now it's fresh and new, at least to my thinking.

[J. R. Scherer]

i still read dragon insider everytime i can.

do they still release DUNGEON the mag for dungeonmasters

Dungeon Magazine is available through the WotC website along with Dragon, yes.

[J. R. Scherer]

The Character Builder beta is available now. You can only create characters as high as 3rd level, but it's pretty darned nifty.

[J. R. Scherer]

Holy shit! The 4E bard is actually cool!

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20081103
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20081114

Who'da thunk it?

[J. R. Scherer]

Ain't It Cool News thinks the exact same thing that I do about the new Character Builder beta.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/39110

[Nick Hale]

Ain't It Cool News thinks the exact same thing that I do about the new Character Builder beta.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/39110

Sounds good to me. I can't wait for those tools to finally actually come out. Actually just read that if I subscribe now at the $5 price I don't have to pay more when new stuff comes out so I went a full year at that to save some money.

Downloading the Beta builder now, I'll post what I think after I play around with it some today.

[The Human Target]

Yeah, the Bard is pretty damn neat.

I think it owns the Warlord so far.

[J. R. Scherer]

Yeah, the Bard is pretty damn neat.

I think it owns the Warlord so far.

Just depends on what it is you're looking to play.

[TheTravis!]

I LOVE the Bard. LOVE. Can't wait now to see what they did with the Sorcerer (my other favorite 3rd edition class).

The Character Builder is so freaking' cool.

My 1st 4e campaign starts in two weeks. After a lot of scrambling, I'm going to run a 4e adaptation of The Sunless Citadel. I've got a human cleric, a human wizard, a human warlock, and a warforged paladin going in.

[J. R. Scherer]

I LOVE the Bard. LOVE. Can't wait now to see what they did with the Sorcerer (my other favorite 3rd edition class).

The Character Builder is so freaking' cool.

My 1st 4e campaign starts in two weeks. After a lot of scrambling, I'm going to run a 4e adaptation of The Sunless Citadel. I've got a human cleric, a human wizard, a human warlock, and a warforged paladin going in.

Warforged paladin. BOO YAH. :cool:

[TheTravis!]

Warforged paladin. BOO YAH. :cool:

Yeah, should be pretty awesome.

[Rod Nunley]

Is it an open beta at this point?

[The Human Target]

I LOVE the Bard. LOVE. Can't wait now to see what they did with the Sorcerer (my other favorite 3rd edition class).

The Character Builder is so freaking' cool.

My 1st 4e campaign starts in two weeks. After a lot of scrambling, I'm going to run a 4e adaptation of The Sunless Citadel. I've got a human cleric, a human wizard, a human warlock, and a warforged paladin going in.

Ewww whats with the human lovers? :)

[Nick Hale]

Ewww whats with the human lovers? :)

3rd edition my group tends to stick to human for the bonus feat and skill... sorta boring.

There was a group that i knew of when I was in high school that actually refused to play anything but humans and actually went on racist type tirades if anyone wanted to play any other race... it was fucked up. I think I played with them all of once, caught shit for wanting to play a dwarf and said "fuck you guys, i'm out!"

[J. R. Scherer]

Yeah, should be pretty awesome.

I love mine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-IRONBLOOD.jpg

[J. R. Scherer]

3rd edition my group tends to stick to human for the bonus feat and skill... sorta boring.

There was a group that i knew of when I was in high school that actually refused to play anything but humans and actually went on racist type tirades if anyone wanted to play any other race... it was fucked up. I think I played with them all of once, caught shit for wanting to play a dwarf and said "fuck you guys, i'm out!"

What a strange attitude for people playing D&D to have...

:crazy:

[artimoff]

What a strange attitude for people playing D&D to have...

:crazy:

I'm not a fan of playing anything but human. I'm not really sure why.

[TheTravis!]

Ewww whats with the human lovers? :)

Actually, the cleric is a half-elf. My bad.

[J. R. Scherer]

I'm not a fan of playing anything but human. I'm not really sure why.

Nothing wrong with that, I mean, most fantasy fiction centers around human characters anyway, but do you get pissed if someone else in your group wants to play a different race than human?

[TheTravis!]

Nothing wrong with that, I mean, most fantasy fiction centers around human characters anyway, but do you get pissed if someone else in your group wants to play a different race than human?

No, that's fucking insane.

[J. R. Scherer]

No, that's fucking insane.

Unless the setting is something like Conan, where there really aren't any playable nonhuman races, and insisting on playing an elf would be just plain retarded, it's pretty much insane, yeah.

[TheTravis!]

Unless the setting is something like Conan, where there really aren't any playable nonhuman races, and insisting on playing an elf would be just plain retarded, it's pretty much insane, yeah.

Don't get me wrong, I have DM'd a party of an Illithid, two drow, a pixie, and a half-giant, and it made me want to machine-gun the room.

[J. R. Scherer]

So Martial Power is pretty damned kickass from what I've read so far. The paragon paths and epic destinies are all much, much cooler than what the PHB presented, IMO.

[Dave S.]

So Martial Power is pretty damned kickass from what I've read so far. The paragon paths and epic destinies are all much, much cooler than what the PHB presented, IMO.

Agreed. But the staggering of these Power books cripples the other classes until they come out.

[The Human Target]

3rd edition my group tends to stick to human for the bonus feat and skill... sorta boring.

There was a group that i knew of when I was in high school that actually refused to play anything but humans and actually went on racist type tirades if anyone wanted to play any other race... it was fucked up. I think I played with them all of once, caught shit for wanting to play a dwarf and said "fuck you guys, i'm out!"

Goddamn nazis!

I'll playing a fucking halfling if I want to!

[The Crushtacean]

Agreed. But the staggering of these Power books cripples the other classes until they come out.

I believe they are being staggered so that the later ones can include the new classes from PHBII. I don't believe there are any martial classes in there (barbarian is wild, or whatever they call it, as is the druid).

[The Human Target]

I believe they are being staggered so that the later ones can include the new classes from PHBII. I don't believe there are any martial classes in there (barbarian is wild, or whatever they call it, as is the druid).

Yes, no new Martial classes will be released in the near future, which is why they got this type of book first.

And while I'd really hesitate to say Martial Power cripples the other classes, it does somewhat make them look less enticing and customizable in comparison.

[The Crushtacean]

Yes, no new Martial classes will be released in the near future, which is why they got this type of book first.

And while I'd really hesitate to say Martial Power cripples the other classes, it does somewhat make them look less enticing and customizable in comparison.

Meh, it's a matter of months. PHBII hits in March, Arcane Power hits the month after, and Divine Power is scheduled for July. I'd rather wait a few months where the martial guys have better stuff and have all the classes in the book than get it all now and have books that are missing core classes.

I say that as someone playing a paladin in a group with three martial characters and an arcane character, so everyone else will get a book first. Doesn't bother me- I can wait the eight months, and in the meantime the rest of the group will get boosted. It's a cooperative game, after all.

[TheTravis!]

I can't fucking WAIT for PHB II.

[J. R. Scherer]

Meh, it's a matter of months. PHBII hits in March, Arcane Power hits the month after, and Divine Power is scheduled for July. I'd rather wait a few months where the martial guys have better stuff and have all the classes in the book than get it all now and have books that are missing core classes.

I say that as someone playing a paladin in a group with three martial characters and an arcane character, so everyone else will get a book first. Doesn't bother me- I can wait the eight months, and in the meantime the rest of the group will get boosted. It's a cooperative game, after all.

I'm playing a paladin as well, so I'm bummed that I have to wait until July for my book, but there are plenty of paragon paths and epic destinies in Martial Power that fit very well for non-martial classes. Flavor-wise, there's really no good reason that The Eternal Defender epic destiny shouldn't be open to any defender class and not just fighters, for example.

[The Human Target]

I'm playing a paladin as well, so I'm bummed that I have to wait until July for my book, but there are plenty of paragon paths and epic destinies in Martial Power that fit very well for non-martial classes. Flavor-wise, there's really no good reason that The Eternal Defender epic destiny shouldn't be open to any defender class and not just fighters, for example.

Yeah, I'm making a tiefling Pally to play in our new game and its kinda a bummer how little new stuff there is to add to the class so far. Especially since we had a CHA pally in our last game, its gonna make my guy look too similar to the other guys.


Meh, it's a matter of months. PHBII hits in March, Arcane Power hits the month after, and Divine Power is scheduled for July. I'd rather wait a few months where the martial guys have better stuff and have all the classes in the book than get it all now and have books that are missing core classes.

I say that as someone playing a paladin in a group with three martial characters and an arcane character, so everyone else will get a book first. Doesn't bother me- I can wait the eight months, and in the meantime the rest of the group will get boosted. It's a cooperative game, after all.

Sure, its cooperative.

But I still envy the fucker's options.

And I'm not sure PHB II is going to have anything for the old classes.

[The Crushtacean]

Sure, its cooperative.

But I still envy the fucker's options.

And I'm not sure PHB II is going to have anything for the old classes.

Sure, me too. I dig having lots of options, at least up to the point where it gets ridiculous and shit gets broken. That was more aimed at the claim that the other classes were crippled. They aren't crippled unless you are playing competitively against other PCs (and even that's debatable); the monsters didn't get any stronger or anything.

[TheTravis!]

I always worry about "too much, too soon" with the enhancement books. The pattern with D&D always seems to be to start balanced, and then rush out the enhancement books for the various classes without adequately playtesting them, leading to power creep and an eventual unbalancing of the game. I think that was ABSOLUTELY the case with 3.5, and I worry that the trend could likely continue with 4.0.

[J. R. Scherer]

All that matters is that the game is fun, power creep or not.

[TheTravis!]

All that matters is that the game is fun, power creep or not.

"Fun" is relative though. I have had too many experiences with min/max charop people who use and abuse any rules variations or options and kind of suck the fun out of it for others. Consistency and balance to the design and options help make things "fun".

[J. R. Scherer]

"Fun" is relative though. I have had too many experiences with min/max charop people who use and abuse any rules variations or options and kind of suck the fun out of it for others. Consistency and balance to the design and options help make things "fun".

I agree. Abusing the rules does take the fun out of things. I don't think that has much to do with actual power creep, though.

[TheTravis!]

I agree. Abusing the rules does take the fun out of things. I don't think that has much to do with actual power creep, though.

Well, take 3.5. Towards the later days, the amount of variable rules/options/features geared the game more towards the "experts" who could create character builds through ridiculous multiclassing, and less towards the new players, who were overwhelmed by the sheer scope of the material. At least in my experience.

The 4.0 engine seems designed to introduce new classes/powers/feats and not unbalance anything. Hopefully.

[The Hodag]

Dumb question time:

Was looking at possible new rogue exploits from the Martial Powers book and was reminded that I have a basic at-will power I've never used: Deft Strike. It's damage is just 1[W], but it says you can move two squares before the attack. Because it's a Standard Action attack, am I right that this means I can make a full move and basically add two additional squares before I make the attack? Eight squares instead of six for most characters?

Because that's potentially a very handy power, but I'm so obsessed with Piercing Strike that I rarely see beyond it when it comes to At-Wills. :)

[PatrickA]

I think you could use it like that, yeah.

You could also move two squares, attack and then shift away (as your actual move action). sort of dart in and then get out.

[TheTravis!]

Dumb question time:

Was looking at possible new rogue exploits from the Martial Powers book and was reminded that I have a basic at-will power I've never used: Deft Strike. It's damage is just 1[W], but it says you can move two squares before the attack. Because it's a Standard Action attack, am I right that this means I can make a full move and basically add two additional squares before I make the attack? Eight squares instead of six for most characters?

Because that's potentially a very handy power, but I'm so obsessed with Piercing Strike that I rarely see beyond it when it comes to At-Wills. :)

That's absolutely what it means.

[The Human Target]

Yep, Deft Strike rocks out with its cock out.

[Arion]

All that matters is that the game is fun, power creep or not.

Good point.

[The Human Target]

Power creep is not fun.

My Warblade and my buddy's Duskblade owning the game was not fun for the rest of the group, and hell it wasn't much fun for us.

[J. R. Scherer]

Example of power creep in Martial Power:

Level 1 Fighter daily powers--is there any reason that a player would choose Brute Strike in the PHB over MP's Lasting Threat? Both deal 3[W] + Strength modifier and have the reliable keyword, but Lasting Threat also places an 'until the end of the encounter' mark on the target that cannot be superseded by another mark. How often does a fighter not want to keep an opponent marked? Sure, it'd keep other party members from marking that one target, but BFD, really.

[J. R. Scherer]

Power creep is not fun.

My Warblade and my buddy's Duskblade owning the game was not fun for the rest of the group, and hell it wasn't much fun for us.

I love Tome of Battle. :heart:

[The Human Target]

Example of power creep in Martial Power:

Level 1 Fighter daily powers--is there any reason that a player would choose Brute Strike in the PHB over MP's Lasting Threat? Both deal 3[W] + Strength modifier and have the reliable keyword, but Lasting Threat also places an 'until the end of the encounter' mark on the target that cannot be superseded by another mark. How often does a fighter not want to keep an opponent marked? Sure, it'd keep other party members from marking that one target, but BFD, really.

A perfect example of power creep and poor design/editing both.

[TheTravis!]

A perfect example of power creep and poor design/editing both.

Exactly. And it's too early to be letting crap like that seep in.

[J. R. Scherer]

Exactly. And it's too early to be letting crap like that seep in.

Maybe the designers felt that Brutal Strike was a bit too weak as is, and Lasting Threat is their fix?

Doesn't really bother me too much.


I've seen in other places people bitching about a combo with a multiclassing ranger/warlord and taking the Horizon Walker paragon path and the Warmaster epic destiny because at 30th (!) level it would allow for a character to pretty much have unlimited move actions. At 30th level. BFD.

[The Hodag]

Maybe the designers felt that Brutal Strike was a bit too weak as is, and Lasting Threat is their fix?

Doesn't really bother me too much.


I've seen in other places people bitching about a combo with a multiclassing ranger/warlord and taking the Horizon Walker paragon path and the Warmaster epic destiny because at 30th (!) level it would allow for a character to pretty much have unlimited move actions. At 30th level. BFD.

Playing in a game with someone whose mind works like that is my worst nightmare.

[The Crushtacean]

Playing in a game with someone whose mind works like that is my worst nightmare.

Yeah, I don't mind a little power gaming, it's good for the soul, but for god's sake, try to play an actual character and not a stat sheet.

[TheTravis!]

Playing in a game with someone whose mind works like that is my worst nightmare.

We just had our guy like that leave our game. I was not at all sad to see him go.

[The Human Target]

Maybe the designers felt that Brutal Strike was a bit too weak as is, and Lasting Threat is their fix?

Doesn't really bother me too much.


I've seen in other places people bitching about a combo with a multiclassing ranger/warlord and taking the Horizon Walker paragon path and the Warmaster epic destiny because at 30th (!) level it would allow for a character to pretty much have unlimited move actions. At 30th level. BFD.

If Brutal Strike is broken and this is there fix, that sucks as it doesn't say "replace Brutal Strike with Lasting Threat as Brutal Strike is too weak."

And also, when a power is too weak or too potent they errata said power.

[J. R. Scherer]

If Brutal Strike is broken and this is there fix, that sucks as it doesn't say "replace Brutal Strike with Lasting Threat as Brutal Strike is too weak."

And also, when a power is too weak or too potent they errata said power.

Brutal Strike still does offer more opportunities for teamwork than Lasting Threat, though. Sometimes it really is a good idea to have someone else mark a bad guy after you do. They do different things, but overall, as a player, I would definitely pick Lasting Threat over Brutal Strike.

[J. R. Scherer]

We just had our guy like that leave our game. I was not at all sad to see him go.

That mindset can be great when it's there to support a kickass character concept. A player should be choosing synergistic options when creating their character, but if all the person cares about is exploiting loopholes and/or flaws in the rules then that's no fun.

[J. R. Scherer]

From the new Draconomicon:

This 30th level dragon scares me. The scar on his chest is where he implanted a live balor to act as a backup heart...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/Ashardalon.jpg

[TheTravis!]

From the new Draconomicon:

This 30th level dragon scares me. The scar on his chest is where he implanted a live balor to act as a backup heart...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/Ashardalon.jpg

If that's Ashardalon, he's SUPPOSED to be scary. Still, now I kind of want to pee myself.

[J. R. Scherer]

If that's Ashardalon, he's SUPPOSED to be scary. Still, now I kind of want to pee myself.

That's his name, yeah. Has he appeared before?

[The Human Target]

That dragon is fucking sweet.

[The Crushtacean]

That's his name, yeah. Has he appeared before?

He was in the backstory to the Sunless Citadel module, then popped up in a few other modules until you actually fight him at the end of the Bastion of Broken Souls module. If you can even manage to kill him, that balor pops out of his heart and you have to fight it. Good luck.

Plus, his disciples have their own prestige class from the 3.5 Draconomicon.

[J. R. Scherer]

He was in the backstory to the Sunless Citadel module, then popped up in a few other modules until you actually fight him at the end of the Bastion of Broken Souls module. If you can even manage to kill him, that balor pops out of his heart and you have to fight it. Good luck.

Plus, his disciples have their own prestige class from the 3.5 Draconomicon.

If you kill the 4E version he explodes in a huge ball of fire and then the pissed off balor pops out. Ashardalon really is awesome.

[J. R. Scherer]

I created some new initiative cards for the two games my group is playing right now. We found that the old versions with stats & stuff became outdated way too quickly so I made some that just represent the characters no matter what level they may be. Now we'll just print them on some nice card stock the one time instead of every time someone gets new equipment or gains a level. Just thought I'd share.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-Basnir1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-Chzelle.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-Drazhak.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-ElginMarxsus1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-Fargrimm.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-HoratioHellstrom-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-IRONBLOOD1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-Mindaris.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-Requiem1-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-Valentine1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Mog_Elffoe/RPG/card-Splug.jpg

[TheTravis!]

I dn't suppose any has (or knows where I can find) the 3.0 Living Greyhawk module "Key to the Grave"?

[copypastepuke]

I sometimes cant help but know how to powergame so i try to play characters that have some huge flaw that is ridiculous and outlandish

[Nick Hale]

I sometimes cant help but know how to powergame so i try to play characters that have some huge flaw that is ridiculous and outlandish

Yeah, I have a guy in my current game that can't power game for crap... but he got probably the best power gamer I know to make his new character. He's level 11 and has a 52 AC...

[The Crushtacean]

I dn't suppose any has (or knows where I can find) the 3.0 Living Greyhawk module "Key to the Grave"?

Well, if it was Living Greyhawk it was RPGA only. As I recall from my RPGA days they had all of the old modules available for order still, though that may not be the case anymore with the switch to 4th. I recommend joining the RPGA as a DM if you aren't already to get access to it, or (probably a lot easier) just posting on ENworld and asking if any RPGA DMs there still have a copy. I bet you some of them do.

[TheTravis!]

Well, if it was Living Greyhawk it was RPGA only. As I recall from my RPGA days they had all of the old modules available for order still, though that may not be the case anymore with the switch to 4th. I recommend joining the RPGA as a DM if you aren't already to get access to it, or (probably a lot easier) just posting on ENworld and asking if any RPGA DMs there still have a copy. I bet you some of them do.

I haven't bothered with RPGA since I was playing Living Greyhawk myself. Not going to cons anymore, I don't know if it's worth it for me to join.

[J. R. Scherer]

Yeah, I have a guy in my current game that can't power game for crap... but he got probably the best power gamer I know to make his new character. He's level 11 and has a 52 AC...

In 4E? :mistrust:

What's the breakdown on that? I'm betting there's a chunk of stuff in there that doesn't stack.

[TheTravis!]

In 4E? :mistrust:

What's the breakdown on that? I'm betting there's a chunk of stuff in there that doesn't stack.

Yeah, that smells fishy to me.

[Nick Hale]

In 4E? :mistrust:

What's the breakdown on that? I'm betting there's a chunk of stuff in there that doesn't stack.

No 3.5, sorry bout that shoulda clarified.

[TheTravis!]

No 3.5, sorry bout that shoulda clarified.

Even in 3.5 - how the hell did they do that?

[J. R. Scherer]

I'm betting on stuff that doesn't stack or magic that's way out of an 11th level character's range.

However it works out, as a DM I'd laugh in the player's face and tell them to start over.

[The Human Target]

I'm betting on stuff that doesn't stack or magic that's way out of an 11th level character's range.

However it works out, as a DM I'd laugh in the player's face and tell them to start over.

I'd show him what he did wrong and then ask him to fix it ;-), but yeah that doesn't seem right at all unless you guys have high level magic items and houserules that allow it somehow.

[The Hodag]

I'd show him what he did wrong and then ask him to fix it ;-), but yeah that doesn't seem right at all unless you guys have high level magic items and houserules that allow it somehow.

It's definitely out of place if the other characters aren't operating at that same level of AC, and it's hard for me to conceive of a level 11 campaign with those kind of insane numbers. That doesn't sound like fun for anyone.

And I know there're people out there that really get off on the empowerment of overclocked characters, but personally I can't imagine anything less fun than a character that's effectively invulnerable.

[The Human Target]

It's definitely out of place if the other characters aren't operating at that same level of AC, and it's hard for me to conceive of a level 11 campaign with those kind of insane numbers. That doesn't sound like fun for anyone.

And I know there're people out there that really get off on the empowerment of overclocked characters, but personally I can't imagine anything less fun than a character that's effectively invulnerable.

Yeah, neither can I.

[Nick Hale]

It was done mainly through him being a Hobgoblin with increased natural armor a few times, magic full plate and a magic tower shield... It actually is all legal technically, the one balancing factor of his character is that he hits like a girl, couldn't afford magic weapons and his actual damage is really really low... plus he doesn't have any of those nifty abilities that make the monsters have to hit him like in 4e so I'm sure the GM will just completely ignore him with the monsters in most fights.

Edit:

I'll also say that it's the player in our group that normally roleplay's the best and he's actually made the character interesting. It's the first time I've ever seen him min/max anything. Everyone is actually cool with him having a character that's broken in one way for that reason really. There's one guy in the group who always has to have the "best" character, if it were him it'd be a TOTALLY different story.

[TheTravis!]

It was done mainly through him being a Hobgoblin with increased natural armor a few times, magic full plate and a magic tower shield... It actually is all legal technically, the one balancing factor of his character is that he hits like a girl, couldn't afford magic weapons and his actual damage is really really low... plus he doesn't have any of those nifty abilities that make the monsters have to hit him like in 4e so I'm sure the GM will just completely ignore him with the monsters in most fights.

Edit:

I'll also say that it's the player in our group that normally roleplay's the best and he's actually made the character interesting. It's the first time I've ever seen him min/max anything. Everyone is actually cool with him having a character that's broken in one way for that reason really. There's one guy in the group who always has to have the "best" character, if it were him it'd be a TOTALLY different story.


I don't care how good a role-player he is, if somebody showed up at my table with a 52 AC, I would make it my mission to eviscerate his character. And I am NOT a killer DM.

[The Human Target]

Playtest druid is up, and I like it!

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20081201a

[TheTravis!]

Playtest druid is up, and I like it!

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20081201a

I know what I'm doing with MY lunch break today!

[The Human Target]

I know what I'm doing with MY lunch break today!

Fuck yeah!

I'm making a human druid with 4 at-will attacks that turns into a bear as we speak.

Controllers are made of win!

[TheTravis!]

Fuck yeah!

I'm making a human druid with 4 at-will attacks that turns into a bear as we speak.

Controllers are made of win!

Holy crap, dude, D&D finally did the impossible - They made me excited at the prospect of playing a druid! This looks AWESOME. I can't wait for March 17th.

[TheTravis!]

Also, Faerie Fire? COMPLETELY badass now.

[The Human Target]

Holy crap, dude, D&D finally did the impossible - They made me excited at the prospect of playing a druid! This looks AWESOME. I can't wait for March 17th.

I've always loved them, and I still do.

Instead of making a human druid, I decided to remake one of my favorite 3rd edition characters!

Swampwater Tom, 1st Level Dwarf Druid
STR- 11
CON- 16
DEX- 12
INT- 13
WIS- 18
CHA- 10

AC- 16
Fort- 13
Ref- 12
Will- 15

HP- 28
BLD- 14
HSV- 7
S/P/D- 10

Skills- Nature, Athletics, Diplomacy, Perception

Feats- Jack of All Trades

At Wills- Wild Shape (Giant River Otter), Chill Wind, Pounce, Thorn Whip
Encounters- Twisting Vines
Daily- Wind Prison

Gear- Totem, Hide Armor, Spear

Rituals- Animal Messenger, Make Whole

[J. R. Scherer]

It was done mainly through him being a Hobgoblin with increased natural armor a few times, magic full plate and a magic tower shield... It actually is all legal technically

I'm willing to bet money that it isn't, actually.

[TheTravis!]

I'm willing to bet money that it isn't, actually.

Seriously. I'm trying to work the stacking out in my head. If that character is legal, you could knock me over with a feather.

[The Human Target]

Ohhhhh a big Fantasy Flight games sale!

http://app.fantasyflightgames.com/5dsale2008.html

I'm going to buy up some of the mini-rpgs and the Midnight books I don't have.

[TheTravis!]

I've always loved them, and I still do.

Instead of making a human druid, I decided to remake one of my favorite 3rd edition characters!

Swampwater Tom, 1st Level Dwarf Druid
STR- 11
CON- 16
DEX- 12
INT- 13
WIS- 18
CHA- 10

AC- 16
Fort- 13
Ref- 12
Will- 15

HP- 28
BLD- 14
HSV- 7
S/P/D- 10

Skills- Nature, Athletics, Diplomacy, Perception

Feats- Jack of All Trades

At Wills- Wild Shape (Giant River Otter), Chill Wind, Pounce, Thorn Whip
Encounters- Twisting Vines
Daily- Wind Prison

Gear- Totem, Hide Armor, Spear

Rituals- Animal Messenger, Make Whole

Nice! I love it when dwarves are something other than cleric/fighter/paladin. My first 3rd edition character was a dwarf sorcerer.

And druids have always had a warm place in my heart, but nobody in any of my games has ever really wanted to play one. "D&D Hippies" was one comment. "True Neutral is a dickache" was another. But I can see Druids being one of the most popular class choices now.

[The Human Target]

Nice! I love it when dwarves are something other than cleric/fighter/paladin. My first 3rd edition character was a dwarf sorcerer.

And druids have always had a warm place in my heart, but nobody in any of my games has ever really wanted to play one. "D&D Hippies" was one comment. "True Neutral is a dickache" was another. But I can see Druids being one of the most popular class choices now.

Yeah, I love playing against type, especially with dwarves.

I was always very pro druid in 3e, but yeah not a lot of other players were. It wasn't so much dislike as it was lack of interest.

[TheTravis!]

I need WOTC to come up with stats for the Rod of Seven Parts for 4e.

[J. R. Scherer]

Nice! I love it when dwarves are something other than cleric/fighter/paladin. My first 3rd edition character was a dwarf sorcerer.

And druids have always had a warm place in my heart, but nobody in any of my games has ever really wanted to play one. "D&D Hippies" was one comment. "True Neutral is a dickache" was another. But I can see Druids being one of the most popular class choices now.

Interesting. Druids have always been played as eco-terrorist types in my groups' games.

[J. R. Scherer]

Yeah, I love playing against type, especially with dwarves.

I was always very pro druid in 3e, but yeah not a lot of other players were. It wasn't so much dislike as it was lack of interest.

3rd Ed Druid can do it all. Tank, cast spells, heal, scout, whatever.

[J. R. Scherer]

Seriously. I'm trying to work the stacking out in my head. If that character is legal, you could knock me over with a feather.

Unless +5 enhancement bonuses to natural AC from Wishes and Epic level equipment are available to 11th level characters I just don't see it.

[TheTravis!]

Unless +5 enhancement bonuses to natural AC from Wishes and Epic level equipment are available to 11th level characters I just don't see it.

Let's go to his house, and if his character sheet doesn't meet our approval, we'll rip it up and make him eat it.

[The Hodag]

Let's go to his house, and if his character sheet doesn't meet our approval, we'll rip it up and make him eat it.

Then you guys can walk out of his house all cool and Keyser-Soze-style as it explodes in slow motion behind you.

:rock:

[The Hodag]

Yeah, I love playing against type...

This is one of my disappointments with 4E. I like going against type too, or just playing quirky. And it definitely seems like, with the reduced skills list and the powers that're dependent on certain stats always being toploaded...there's just less opportunity to play an oddball.

Not that D&D has ever particularly encouraged it. It's a combat heavy game, and if you're not effective there, you're pretty much a liability. But moreso now.

[Dave S.]

This is one of my disappointments with 4E. I like going against type too, or just playing quirky. And it definitely seems like, with the reduced skills list and the powers that're dependent on certain stats always being toploaded...there's just less opportunity to play an oddball.

Not that D&D has ever particularly encouraged it. It's a combat heavy game, and if you're not effective there, you're pretty much a liability. But moreso now.

I saw a dwarf hammer-wielding swordmage. With a spiked shield as his implement/ light blade for the +1 to AC.

[Nick Hale]

Unless +5 enhancement bonuses to natural AC from Wishes and Epic level equipment are available to 11th level characters I just don't see it.

I'll try to get a breakdown for you guys, the guy who did it and the GM both say its perfectly legal, I'm not a huge rules lawyer but from what I saw it looked legal.

Again, you guys are also missing the part where he hits weaker than my character did at first level as well... honestly his 52 AC does him absolutely no good because I know our GM and he'll just not attack his character until last in the big fights which basically makes the character a paperweight that just gets in the way.

52 AC would be awesome if he could do more than 1d8+2 damage or whatever it is he does. And no, that estimate for damage isn't low, thats about on par with his.

[TheTravis!]

I'll try to get a breakdown for you guys, the guy who did it and the GM both say its perfectly legal, I'm not a huge rules lawyer but from what I saw it looked legal.

Again, you guys are also missing the part where he hits weaker than my character did at first level as well... honestly his 52 AC does him absolutely no good because I know our GM and he'll just not attack his character until last in the big fights which basically makes the character a paperweight that just gets in the way.

52 AC would be awesome if he could do more than 1d8+2 damage or whatever it is he does. And no, that estimate for damage isn't low, thats about on par with his.

A smart player would still completely take advantage of a 52 AC. if nothing else, he becomes the attack soak for the party, blocking narrow corridors, and obstructing opponents from reaching his allies.

Also, no matter how bad he hits now, what's to keep his party from buffing him to the eyes with bonuses to hit or damage. For that matter, why not just buy him a wand of magic missles and throw tons of skill points at Use Magical Device. Then he doesn't even need to roll a to-hit anymore.

Nope. If I were the DM, I would murder him. The character that is, not the player.

THEN I would murder the player. :)

[Patch]

I played D&D last week for the first time in over 10 years. My friend was the ref. His wife, my wife, and another friend also played.
We used older books with 'kits' for classes. I was Bax Foxbounder, a rock gnome Fighter/Thief with a Stalker kit.
My wife and my friend's wife drank a lot of wine and giggled their asses off all night.
It was fun.

[TheTravis!]

I played D&D last week for the first time in over 10 years. My friend was the ref. His wife, my wife, and another friend also played.
We used older books with 'kits' for classes. I was Bax Foxbounder, a rock gnome Fighter/Thief with a Stalker kit.
My wife and my friend's wife drank a lot of wine and giggled their asses off all night.
It was fun.

Old school!

[J. R. Scherer]

Nope. If I were the DM, I would murder him. The character that is, not the player.

THEN I would murder the player. :)

I'd have a spellcaster come in and mind control him into giving his armor over to the spellcaster's over-muscled badass bodyguard.

[Nick Hale]

I'd have a spellcaster come in and mind control him into giving his armor over to the spellcaster's over-muscled badass bodyguard.

Also quite possible, his saves are shit.

[Patch]

Then you guys can walk out of his house all cool and Keyser-Soze-style as it explodes in slow motion behind you.

:rock:

:lol:

So yea or nay on this new edition of AD&D?
I glanced at the books at a Borders and have to admit, though it seems more malleable and inclusive, I was wondering if it was a bit sterile?

[J. R. Scherer]

:lol:

So yea or nay on this new edition of AD&D?
I glanced at the books at a Borders and have to admit, though it seems more malleable and inclusive, I was wondering if it was a bit sterile?

I am deeply in love with 4E D&D.

[TheTravis!]

:lol:

So yea or nay on this new edition of AD&D?
I glanced at the books at a Borders and have to admit, though it seems more malleable and inclusive, I was wondering if it was a bit sterile?

It's a bit of adjustment, but I think it's infinitely more friendly to newer or more casual players. I'm enjoying it greatly so far.

[Patch]

I am deeply in love with 4E D&D.


It's a bit of adjustment, but I think it's infinitely more friendly to newer or more casual players. I'm enjoying it greatly so far.

Not to be a pain, but can you guys tell me a couple of things you like most about it?
I'm mulling over a purchase (or sitting in on a game at the hobby shop).

[TheTravis!]

Not to be a pain, but can you guys tell me a couple of things you like most about it?
I'm mulling over a purchase (or sitting in on a game at the hobby shop).

You're not a pain at all. (Wanna draw my character portrait for me? :))

What I primarily love is that the rules have been unified in a way that all classes share the same basic mechanic - abilities that can be utilized at will, per encounter, or once per day. This means that there is parity across all the classes now. Wizards at first level aren't wimps, and fighters at 15th level aren't useless. All the classes still have their own base flavor, but the balance between them had never been better.

It basically seems to me that the designers managed to take everything that wasn't working or wasn't "fun" from the old editions and throw it away.

[The Hodag]

Question for the DMs out there:

Have you had any issues with the newly pared down skills system? A player wanting to do something that's not covered by a skill, like ride a horse, sail a ship, cook a monster without getting poisoned by its blood, etc, etc?

[TheTravis!]

Question for the DMs out there:

Have you had any issues with the newly pared down skills system? A player wanting to do something that's not covered by a skill, like ride a horse, sail a ship, cook a monster without getting poisoned by its blood, etc, etc?

Ride a horse should be athletics.

Sail a ship could also be athletics - but really might be more interesting as a skill challenege - athletics to get the rigging done properly, nature to deal with wind, current, and weather.

Cook a monster - I would use the appropriate knowledge skill.

[The Hodag]

Ride a horse should be athletics.

Sail a ship could also be athletics - but really might be more interesting as a skill challenege - athletics to get the rigging done properly, nature to deal with wind, current, and weather.

Cook a monster - I would use the appropriate knowledge skill.

Those all seem like good DM responses. I wonder about player reaction, though, to the inability to specialize beyond the game's pared-down skill sets. I'm picturing, for instance, a paladin who's an excellent horseman because he's, well, a knight, but isn't otherwise an athletic type. You couldn't really simulate that, right? Or a halfling who's a master chef, but not just because he has a high intelligence (meaning that every wizard is a master chef, too)?

[TheTravis!]

Those all seem like good DM responses. I wonder about player reaction, though, to the inability to specialize beyond the game's pared-down skill sets. I'm picturing, for instance, a paladin who's an excellent horseman because he's, well, a knight, but isn't otherwise an athletic type. You couldn't really simulate that, right? Or a halfling who's a master chef, but not just because he has a high intelligence (meaning that every wizard is a master chef, too)?

If it's flavor-based like that, why does it need game stats? If the halfling's player says "I'm an excellent chef", then fine - he's an excellent chef. If the paladin says he grew up around horses, he can ride well.

One of the flaws with the previous system was that it forced you to spend game stat points on flavor bonuses. Something like cooking well doesn't impct the game appreciably, so... why not just give it to the player?

[The Hodag]

If it's flavor-based like that, why does it need game stats? If the halfling's player says "I'm an excellent chef", then fine - he's an excellent chef. If the paladin says he grew up around horses, he can ride well.

One of the flaws with the previous system was that it forced you to spend game stat points on flavor bonuses. Something like cooking well doesn't impct the game appreciably, so... why not just give it to the player?

I agree in general, BUT...what if the party's been contracted by the Duke of Whatever, a connoisseur of arts, fine food and fine wine. The players want to persuade him to give them an advance on the job to buy equipment and the halfling master chef thinks his cooking skill would come into play?

And if all the players are on horses and need to jump over a gorge on horses, and athletics is the base skill...would you actually give the paladin a bonus just because he says he's good with horses?

I ask partially because I'm playing a rogue whose backstory is that he spent many a year on the high seas. And I specifically trained him up in acrobatics and athletics to represent all that work and climbing rigging and whatnot. But there's no real way to represent his skill with ships or his ability to navigate by the stars or the fact that he might get on particularly well with other sailor types when it comes to getting info or persuading them to help.

It hasn't been an issue in my game because we're pretty much running with official adventures and those seem low on opportunities for such stuff, but I at least like the idea of bringing his backstory more into play in a tangible way. Any suggestions?

(I already have him talk like a sailor ;))

[TheTravis!]

I agree in general, BUT...what if the party's been contracted by the Duke of Whatever, a connoisseur of arts, fine food and fine wine. The players want to persuade him to give them an advance on the job to buy equipment and the halfling master chef thinks his cooking skill would come into play?

And if all the players are on horses and need to jump over a gorge on horses, and athletics is the base skill...would you actually give the paladin a bonus just because he says he's good with horses?

I ask partially because I'm playing a rogue whose backstory is that he spent many a year on the high seas. And I specifically trained him up in acrobatics and athletics to represent all that work and climbing rigging and whatnot. But there's no real way to represent his skill with ships or his ability to navigate by the stars or the fact that he might get on particularly well with other sailor types when it comes to getting info or persuading them to help.

It hasn't been an issue in my game because we're pretty much running with official adventures and those seem low on opportunities for such stuff, but I at least like the idea of bringing his backstory more into play in a tangible way. Any suggestions?

(I already have him talk like a sailor ;))

If it's an in-game situation where the outcome of the encounter depends on the skill, then you have to involve the skill in some way and it probably becomes a skill challenge.

Scenario 1: Skill challenge. Bluff the duke that you're preparing an exotic dish that only those with a fine pallette can appreciate. Knowledge of nature or whatever is apporpriate to cook it properly. Stuff like that.

If the halfling wants to make biscuits around the campfire one night - who cares?

Scenario 2: That is a straight-up athletics check.

Scanario 3: If the guy just wants to sail, a boat, let him sail a boat. If he is trying to outrun the Dread Pirate Roberts - It becomes a Skill Challenge.

[The Hodag]

If it's an in-game situation where the outcome of the encounter depends on the skill, then you have to involve the skill in some way and it probably becomes a skill challenge.

Scenario 1: Skill challenge. Bluff the duke that you're preparing an exotic dish that only those with a fine pallette can appreciate. Knowledge of nature or whatever is apporpriate to cook it properly. Stuff like that.

See, but my notion is that the halfling would actually BE a great cook. He shouldn't need to bluff - he wants to actually impress the duke with a first class meal, and per his backstory he should be able to accomplish such a thing. But without a cooking skill or some tangible way to represent background flavor in the game mechanics, I don't see a way to do that.


If the halfling wants to make biscuits around the campfire one night - who cares?

Agreed. It's the rare occasions flavor skills become applicable I'm interested in.


Scenario 2: That is a straight-up athletics check.

Okay, but any bonus to the low-athletics Paladin whose character concept is that he's not athletic in general, but IS a great horseman because of his knight training?


Scanario 3: If the guy just wants to sail, a boat, let him sail a boat. If he is trying to outrun the Dread Pirate Roberts - It becomes a Skill Challenge.

Again, though...is there any tangible way to bring a backstory that he's a good sailor into this? To give him a bonus? I guess training in Nature, Endurance and Athletics/Acrobatics could be used to simulate high seas skills, but it still bugs me a bit that those are so broad. A ranger will likely be trained in Nature -- but is that gonna make him a good sailor? A barbarian will have a good Endurance, but should he know how to use that skill on the deck of a ship?

I guess I'm just looking for some finesse to the system, but it seems like that's not its strong point.

[TheTravis!]

See, but my notion is that the halfling would actually BE a great cook. He shouldn't need to bluff - he wants to actually impress the duke with a first class meal, and per his backstory he should be able to accomplish such a thing. But without a cooking skill or some tangible way to represent background flavor in the game mechanics, I don't see a way to do that.

The Bluff check isn't for him. It's for one of his allies to help him. Like another compatriot's Diplomacy check would give knowledge of the best way to present such a dish, etc. A good skill challenge should be like a combat. EVERYBODY should be able to participate.



Okay, but any bonus to the low-athletics Paladin whose character concept is that he's not athletic in general, but IS a great horseman because of his knight training?

No. Because if he was trained, the training should be in Athletics. Someone with low athlecis maybe grew up on a farm, but never took to riding, or rides competently for pleasure, but isn't accustomed to a hard ride with rough jumps.


Again, though...is there any tangible way to bring a backstory that he's a good sailor into this? To give him a bonus? I guess training in Nature, Endurance and Athletics/Acrobatics could be used to simulate high seas skills, but it still bugs me a bit that those are so broad. A ranger will likely be trained in Nature -- but is that gonna make him a good sailor? A barbarian will have a good Endurance, but should he know how to use that skill on the deck of a ship?

Why not? It's not about the skill, but about how you define it's use in that situation. "My barbarian's experience surviving harsh conditions in his homeland allow him to shrug off the icy cold wins and driving rain."


I guess I'm just looking for some finesse to the system, but it seems like that's not its strong point.

It's not a system that micromanages the skills of the characters. The big picture things that they do all the time as adventurers are covered. The flavor stuff they like for their backstory can be done AS backstory. The situations you are talking about are few and far between, and can be administered with DM ingenuity.

[The Human Target]

3rd Ed Druid can do it all. Tank, cast spells, heal, scout, whatever.

Yessir, and thats the kinda class I like. It was too good at doing all those things, but I like a guy that can be sort of middle of the road at most everything like the bard or even the 3e wizard.


This is one of my disappointments with 4E. I like going against type too, or just playing quirky. And it definitely seems like, with the reduced skills list and the powers that're dependent on certain stats always being toploaded...there's just less opportunity to play an oddball.

Not that D&D has ever particularly encouraged it. It's a combat heavy game, and if you're not effective there, you're pretty much a liability. But moreso now.

I'd say its about equal to 3e in that regard, which isn't great but its not as bad as the early editions.

Hopefully 5e will through that kinda shit out the window and let the players be free to do what they want and not have it be gimped at all.


:lol:

So yea or nay on this new edition of AD&D?
I glanced at the books at a Borders and have to admit, though it seems more malleable and inclusive, I was wondering if it was a bit sterile?

I like it better than any other edition of DnD, though I think there is a lot of room for improvement. And there are other systems I'd rather play.

But if you in general want to play DnD, its the way to go IMO.

PS- to me sterile is a good thing. I don't need confusing, rambling Gygaxian sentences and sketches that were drawn on napkins.


Not to be a pain, but can you guys tell me a couple of things you like most about it?
I'm mulling over a purchase (or sitting in on a game at the hobby shop).

Like Travis, I enjoy the overall balance between the classes a lot. And I like the general unification of how class powers work.

I like the power level of the game- your characters start out capable and end up even more badass. Whereas in past editions you started out cripplingly weak and eventually became gods.

I like the art a lot, and the layout of the content. I also like how the content will be released.

I like the online support a lot.

Mechanically, the monsters are in general sweet.

But to even things out, there are several things I don't like at all...

I don't like the length of many of the combats I've been in. They go on longer than I enjoy and is exciting.

I don't like the lack of out of combat game options. The system in no way hampers roleplaying, but there are almost no real out of combat options for characters to take. So I guess the game in general is just too combat oriented for me.

Some of the rules are still more complicated than need be, and there are still a few too many hard and fast subset rules that could have been more glossed over IMO.

The Monster Manual is too repetitious and lacking in fluff.


Question for the DMs out there:

Have you had any issues with the newly pared down skills system? A player wanting to do something that's not covered by a skill, like ride a horse, sail a ship, cook a monster without getting poisoned by its blood, etc, etc?

So far we've just used a lot of ability checks and hand waving. Its worked out okay-ish.

[Dave S.]

So I'm kind of done with my current campaign. My DM, 2 months into it, still doesn't know the rules. And will houserule away things just because he doesn't like them. He gives out way too many powerful items and doesn't scale combat well. And he just makes up the story as he goes along, and it's fairly inconsistent. I'm not really sure what the party's current goal is half the time, and he doesn't know even more than half the time.

Like the other day, he's like "I'm house-rulling that Eladrin are not aware of their surroundings when they trance."

Me, playing the Eladrin, "Umm, so you're basically taking away one of my race features?"

"Yeah, because I can't have people sneak up on the party when they sleep. So it's out."

[J. R. Scherer]

So I'm kind of done with my current campaign. My DM, 2 months into it, still doesn't know the rules. And will houserule away things just because he doesn't like them. He gives out way too many powerful items and doesn't scale combat well. And he just makes up the story as he goes along, and it's fairly inconsistent. I'm not really sure what the party's current goal is half the time, and he doesn't know even more than half the time.

Like the other day, he's like "I'm house-rulling that Eladrin are not aware of their surroundings when they trance."

Me, playing the Eladrin, "Umm, so you're basically taking away one of my race features?"

"Yeah, because I can't have people sneak up on the party when they sleep. So it's out."

So I guess he hasn't heard of the Stealth skill, huh?

[Dave S.]

So I guess he hasn't heard of the Stealth skill, huh?

I told him, 'You know, I'd still have to make a perception check' and he's like 'well, maybe, but it'll be at a huge penalty'.

But really, he probably hasn't. He has barely skimmed most of the rulebooks. I've turned into the 'rule monkey' of the game, since I've actually, you know, read the book.

Yeah, I'm done. I'll just say I'm going to start my own game and be too busy to play, but he's welcome to make a PC for my campaign.

[TheTravis!]

Your DM is shitty. Sorry.

[Generic Poster]

I agree with the "too sterile" criticism. I miss the rambling Gygaxian sentences.

[TheTravis!]

Invoker preview is up today. Sort of a variant on the Favored Soul from 3.5 Pretty cool.

[TheTravis!]

I am addicted to "Tiny Adventures" on Facebook.

[The Human Target]

Invoker preview is up today. Sort of a variant on the Favored Soul from 3.5 Pretty cool.

Gah, I have to check this out later!

What role does it fill? Divine Controller?

[Nick Hale]

I am addicted to "Tiny Adventures" on Facebook.

Damn you... that's all I can say, why'd you have to introduce me to this...

[Dave S.]

Your DM is shitty. Sorry.

I agree. He's my friend, so I hate to leave the campaign. But I might have to. Another player brought it up to me without me mentioning it, saying he's not enjoying it either for the same reasons.

[TheTravis!]

Gah, I have to check this out later!

What role does it fill? Divine Controller?

Yes indeedy.

[TheTravis!]

Damn you... that's all I can say, why'd you have to introduce me to this...

I'm sorry.

[J. R. Scherer]

I am addicted to "Tiny Adventures" on Facebook.

Same here, even though it regularly pisses me off to no end.

[The Human Target]

So I like the Invoker a good deal, but then I'm a controller whore.

I am a little worried about some of its powers being too good, but its really hard to judge such a short preview.

I hope the Sorcerer ends up being as cool as the druid, wizard, and invoker.

And for godsake give me a martial controller Monk WotC!

[TheTravis!]

So I like the Invoker a good deal, but then I'm a controller whore.

I am a little worried about some of its powers being too good, but its really hard to judge such a short preview.

I hope the Sorcerer ends up being as cool as the druid, wizard, and invoker.

And for godsake give me a martial controller Monk WotC!

Martial controllers make no sense whatsoever.

And the Monk will be ki, for certain.

[The Human Target]

Martial controllers make no sense whatsoever.

And the Monk will be ki, for certain.

It must suck being so wrong all the time. :-x

Yeah, I know Monk will be Ki.

I just don't like that being an entire power source.

As to the Martial Controller, I think it makes loads of sense, especially for an unarmed fighting class. Hell, to me the Rogue and Fighter already have some mild controllery martial powers as it is.

Give them like an area effect, close range at-will. The "monk" jumps forward, attacks every enemy in a 3x3 square, and returns to his space of origin. Or a jump kick that hits every enemy in a five square line. Or a blinding attack where the monk kicks dirt in the monsters eyes. Or a paralyzing "five finger death punch/Vulcan Nerve Pinch" kind of a thing.

[TheTravis!]

It must suck being so wrong all the time. :-x

Yeah, I know Monk will be Ki.

I just don't like that being an entire power source.

As to the Martial Controller, I think it makes loads of sense, especially for an unarmed fighting class. Hell, to me the Rogue and Fighter already have some mild controllery martial powers as it is.

Give them like an area effect, close range at-will. The "monk" jumps forward, attacks every enemy in a 3x3 square, and returns to his space of origin. Or a jump kick that hits every enemy in a five square line. Or a blinding attack where the monk kicks dirt in the monsters eyes. Or a paralyzing "five finger death punch/Vulcan Nerve Pinch" kind of a thing.

So's your face.

[J. R. Scherer]

So's your face.

He's got you there.