It's over - Bonds did it.

[Bill!]

And he's a big douche too. Who'd have guessed.

[Bill!]

By the way, I really hate how they stop the game to do all this celebration bull shit. Did it with McGwire too. When Maris hit his 61st, he came out and tipped his cap once and the game went on. I hate watching baseball do this kind of thing to itself, this self love masturbation crap.

[GrandeMaestro Fünke]

Just was flipping and saw it. F**k Barry Bonds.

[John M. Coker (Johnny C.)]

Ya know what- good for him, seriously, I'm happy for the guy, and I'm happy for his fans.

[Jew Mafia]

did they throw the ball back?

[Bill!]

did they throw the ball back?

It happened in San Fran, so there was a mob trying to get it.

[Wagon]

It happened in San Fran, so there was a mob trying to get it.

I'd be surprised if somebody isn't dead in that pile, actually. it was getting pretty ugly before ESPN cut away.

[gibbEy]

Fucking sad.

What a bunch of bullshit.

[Bill!]

Ya know what- good for him, seriously, I'm happy for the guy, and I'm happy for his fans.

But its tainted. Not just because of the steroid stuff, but also just because Bonds is a complete tool. All this bullshit he has spewed about teamwork and just caring about his team winning is a load. He barely even plays when he's in the outfield. He doesn't even try. He's a joke and all he cares about is batting. Plus he has no class. He's in love with himself, and its obvious.

The only person I have any emotion for right now is Mike Macsik, the poor Nationals pitcher who gave it up. He knew it right away and looked heart broken.

[Smokinblues]

and the one record in sports that ever meant anything is now a tarnished empty joke.

[Wagon]

Fucking sad.

What a bunch of bullshit.

eh, A-rod will leave him in the dust soon enough. Let him have his crown as the king of the Steroid Era.

[MAK15]

my roomie made me break in the middle of Family Guy for this.
seeing all those people freak for the ball was crazy.

[gibbEy]

You know what?

I'm sad that Mayes was out there after.....I know he's his Godfather and stuff.....but fuck....does Willy Mayes not know it's bulllshit?

[Magnum V.I.]

and the one record in sports that ever meant anything is now a tarnished empty joke.

Until A-Rod Does it! :D!

[Bill!]

and the one record in sports that ever meant anything is now a tarnished empty joke.

A Rod will break it, maybe. If he can hold up long enough. You never know.

Only problem is, I think A Rod is almost as classless. Aaron was a great man. It's too bad when these kings of baseball history have to be remembered now along with the likes of Bonds and McGwire.

[gibbEy]

eh, A-rod will leave him in the dust soon enough. Let him have his crown as the king of the Steroid Era.

I hope.

[Ray G.]

Let the A-Rod countdown begin. :D

[Jew Mafia]

It happened in San Fran, so there was a mob trying to get it.

Ah. Well at least everyone can go back to not caring about San Fran Giants games again.

[Bill!]

Let the A-Rod countdown begin. :D

I just hope he can make it. He does have 500, but he's not exactly super young. He is still in his early thirties, but injuries happen more frequently these days to players his age. If something knocked him down for a season, he may never be right again.

[gibbEy]

But its tainted. Not just because of the steroid stuff, but also just because Bonds is a complete tool. All this bullshit he has spewed about teamwork and just caring about his team winning is a load. He barely even plays when he's in the outfield. He doesn't even try. He's a joke and all he cares about is batting. Plus he has no class. He's in love with himself, and its obvious.

The only person I have any emotion for right now is Mike Macsik, the poor Nationals pitcher who gave it up. He knew it right away and looked heart broken.

You're exactly right.

I'm sick of people who feel sorry for Bonds, because of the shite he takes.

The dude has brought it all on himself, and he's done it for years, starting with being a complete dickface at Arizona State.

[Ray G.]

A Rod will break it, maybe. If he can hold up long enough. You never know.

Only problem is, I think A Rod is almost as classless. Aaron was a great man. It's too bad when these kings of baseball history have to be remembered now along with the likes of Bonds and McGwire.

A-Rod is a cocky punk "star" like most of the players of this era, but he's also a consummate athlete. I'd much rather have him have the record than this joke.

Asterick away.

[Magnum V.I.]

A-Rod is a cocky punk "star" like most of the players of this era, but he's also a consummate athlete. I'd much rather have him have the record than this joke.

Asterick away.

But how do you know he's not Juicing?

[Ryan F]

But how do you know he's not Juicing?

Canseco says he is.

[John M. Coker (Johnny C.)]

But its tainted. Not just because of the steroid stuff, but also just because Bonds is a complete tool. All this bullshit he has spewed about teamwork and just caring about his team winning is a load. He barely even plays when he's in the outfield. He doesn't even try. He's a joke and all he cares about is batting. Plus he has no class. He's in love with himself, and its obvious.

The only person I have any emotion for right now is Mike Macsik, the poor Nationals pitcher who gave it up. He knew it right away and looked heart broken.

I don't care. I'm not a Giants fan, I'm not a Barry Bonds fan, so his work ethic, or whatever he does or doesn't do, doesn't mean anything to me one way or the other. But the guy did break a huge record. Good for him, and good for the people that do like him. I have no reason to hate on the guy.

[Bill!]

A-Rod is a cocky punk "star" like most of the players of this era, but he's also a consummate athlete. I'd much rather have him have the record than this joke.

Asterick away.

I agree that A Rod is definitely the most talented player alive and its quite possible he'll go down when its all said and done as the best player of all time. We'll see what happens I guess.

[Magnum V.I.]

Canseco says he is.

Well maybe they should watch him closer.

[Bill!]

Canseco says he is.

Canseco has a book to sell.

[Bill!]

I don't care. I'm not a Giants fan, I'm not a Barry Bonds fan, so his work ethic, or whatever he does or doesn't do, doesn't mean anything to me one way or the other. But the guy did break a huge record. Good for him, and good for the people that do like him. I have no reason to hate on the guy.

But if he's a cheat and a criminal (both likely) then it doesn't really mean anything.

[Wagon]

I just hope he can make it. He does have 500, but he's not exactly super young. He is still in his early thirties, but injuries happen more frequently these days to players his age. If something knocked him down for a season, he may never be right again.

He's 32! Let's not forget that he was the youngest EVER to get 500, and the season isn't even done yet... He could break it before 40, even at a (relatively) leisurely pace...

You're right about injuries, of course, but barring that, I think he's got a pretty darn good shot at it.

[Magnum V.I.]

Canseco has a book to sell.

So you don't think A-Rod is a Juicer?

[gibbEy]

But how do you know he's not Juicing?

His fucking dome isn't 10 times the size it was....his hat size hasn't changed....he's a bit bigger, but nothing like the transformation Bonds has made.

[Bill!]

He's 32! Let's not forget that he was the youngest EVER to get 500, and the season isn't even done yet... He could break it before 40, even at a (relatively) leisurely pace...

You're right about injuries, of course, but barring that, I think he's got a pretty darn good shot at it.

I agree that he'll definitely make it barring injuries. But injuries are what I worry about. It would probably take him until he is forty, injury free.

[McAfee]

I just hope he can make it. He does have 500, but he's not exactly super young. He is still in his early thirties, but injuries happen more frequently these days to players his age. If something knocked him down for a season, he may never be right again.

He's still the youngest to get to 500 by a long way. He's on pace to catch Bonds's current total in about 6 years. And in the DH era, guys can stick around a lot longer than in the old days.

[Doc Randy]

But its tainted. Not just because of the steroid stuff, but also just because Bonds is a complete tool. All this bullshit he has spewed about teamwork and just caring about his team winning is a load. He barely even plays when he's in the outfield. He doesn't even try. He's a joke and all he cares about is batting. Plus he has no class. He's in love with himself, and its obvious.


1) Baseball has always been filled with dicks and assholes. See Ty Cobb. And as bad as Barry Bonds may seem to be, he ain't anywhere as bad as Ty was.

2) You complain about his outfielding, but he has won 8 Rawlings Gold Glove Awards. That's pretty impressive.

3) Based purely on stats, Bonds is definitely one of the all-time great players in the history of the game.

[Magnum V.I.]

His fucking dome isn't 10 times the size it was....his hat size hasn't changed....he's a bit bigger, but nothing like the transformation Bonds has made.

Still doesn't mean he's not juicing or corking his bats.

[Bill!]

He's still the youngest to get to 500 by a long way. He's on pace to catch Bonds's current total in about 6 years. And in the DH era, guys can stick around a lot longer than in the old days.

I don't think he'll be hitting 50 HR a year when he's in his late thirties. I think it will probably take him about 8 years to break.

[Jet]

Yeah, ARod will have this record one day and 800 is not out of the question.

[Albert]

I don't care. I'm not a Giants fan, I'm not a Barry Bonds fan, so his work ethic, or whatever he does or doesn't do, doesn't mean anything to me one way or the other. But the guy did break a huge record. Good for him, and good for the people that do like him. I have no reason to hate on the guy.

Right. It's not like you can be shitty at baseball and take steroids and hit 756 home runs.

[Bill!]

1) Baseball has always been filled with dicks and assholes. See Ty Cobb. And as bad as Barry Bonds may seem to be, he ain't anywhere as bad as Ty was.

2) You complain about his outfielding, but he has won 8 Rawlings Gold Glove Awards. That's pretty impressive.

3) Based purely on stats, Bonds is definitely one of the all-time great players in the history of the game.

His outfielding has become a joke. That's clear. Of course he used to be really good. But we're talking about now. You see some guys in the outfield who just obviously don't care. Like Bonds and Manny. It's disgusting to watch because they think batting is all that baseball is about.

[gibbEy]

http://r_harrison.tripod.com/Agonist/BarryBonds.jpg

yay.

[Ambrose Chase]

Bonds sucks.

A-rod sucks.

Krypton sucks.

[Bill!]

http://r_harrison.tripod.com/Agonist/BarryBonds.jpg

yay.

Exactly.

[gibbEy]

Still doesn't mean he's not juicing or corking his bats.

Are you serious?

[Doc Randy]

His outfielding has become a joke. That's clear. Of course he used to be really good. But we're talking about now. You see some guys in the outfield who just obviously don't care. Like Bonds and Manny. It's disgusting to watch because they think batting is all that baseball is about.

I know what you are saying, but regardless... his pre-1999, pre-steroids career is still impressive enough to warrant the mantle of greatness.

I just think it is odd that so many people act as if the game is any more corrupt or tainted than it has ever been. It has ALWAYS been corrupt and tainted. Jesus... just go back to Ken Burns for a refresher. The only thing more persistent than baseball's taint is its ability to hide it through romanticized nostalgia.

[Magnum V.I.]

Are you serious?

It's a Valid question to ask. Considering how everyone says the record can never be broken. We won't have a before and after picture if A-Rod is juicing because like Bonds we can see the before and after.

So Is A-Rod a cheater?

[gibbEy]

http://r_harrison.tripod.com/Agonist/BarryBonds.jpg

yay.

Actually.....hangon.....I think that might be Otis Nixon on the left.


My bad.

[dougmac]

and the one record in sports that ever meant anything is now a tarnished empty joke.

that's foolish. Aaron's record was no more special than several other sports records and the way its been glorified is stupid.
Also, Bonds is a scumbag, but he was hardly the only player that juiced up and it still took tremendous skill to reach this milestone. Records are made to be broken and unfortunately an asshole has this one now, but its only temporary and its not that big a deal anyway. It doesn't invalidate Aaron's greatness or anyone else's.

[Magnum V.I.]

Actually.....hangon.....I think that might be Otis Nixon on the left.


My bad.

:mad:!


My dad actually got to do a commercial with him in it. Ahhh, the Early 90's for the braves.

[John M. Coker (Johnny C.)]

His outfielding has become a joke. That's clear. Of course he used to be really good. But we're talking about now. You see some guys in the outfield who just obviously don't care. Like Bonds and Manny. It's disgusting to watch because they think batting is all that baseball is about.

And there are a lot of people that think dunking is all that basketball is about. That's not entirely the fault of the players, that's just what today's game has become.

[Bill!]

I know what you are saying, but regardless... his pre-1999, pre-steroids career is still impressive enough to warrant the mantle of greatness.

I just think it is odd that so many people act as if the game is any more corrupt or tainted than it has ever been. It has ALWAYS been corrupt and tainted.

Yeah, but people don't really remember the bad players records like they do the good one. I don't hear too many people swooning over Ty Cobbs record because the man was a complete dick. But people loved Aaron's record. People love Cal's record. These are good guys and its sad to see their memories tainted in any way. Bonds was a great player, but he is an asshole, a criminal, and a cheater. He's bad for baseball. People may think this is good for baseball, but in the long run, it won't be. The power records are all becoming shallow and meaningless.

[Smokinblues]

that's foolish. Aaron's record was no more special than several other sports records and the way its been glorified is stupid.
Also, Bonds is a scumbag, but he was hardly the only player that juiced up and it still took tremendous skill to reach this milestone. Records are made to be broken and unfortunately an asshole has this one now, but its only temporary and its not that big a deal anyway. It doesn't invalidate Aaron's greatness or anyone else's.
this is the most well known, and up until today the most revered record in all of sports. no other record was even close. now it's just another meaningless number.

[Albert]

:mad:!


My dad actually got to do a commercial with him in it. Ahhh, the Early 90's for the braves.

Was the commercial for cocaine?

[Doc Randy]

It doesn't invalidate Aaron's greatness or anyone else's.

Exactly. It's not like people aren't still talking about Honus Wagner, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Joe Demagio, Mickey Mantle, Roger Marris, and Hank Aaron and the hundreds of other great players that have graced the game.

[Bill!]

And there are a lot of people that think dunking is all that basketball is about. That's not entirely the fault of the players, that's just what today's game has become.

That's completely different though and very far off. Guys like Hunter, Sizemore, Ichiro, these guys play their asses off. They know the game is both offensive and defensive. They don't just go through the motions in the field.

And don't get me started on basketball. That sport is a joke.

[gibbEy]

It's a Valid question to ask. Considering how everyone says the record can never be broken. We won't have a before and after picture if A-Rod is juicing because like Bonds we can see the before and after.

So Is A-Rod a cheater?

Find a before and after picture of ARod.

Bonds was a great player, and a tremendous hitter before hit started juicing. Anyone who believes that the way he changed physically is natural is fooling themselves.

I'm a Cardinals fan. I remember wondering why McGwire's batting helmet seemed to be sitting way on top of his head.

It's not natural to have your skull grow.

Your muscles can get bigger, but your BONES don't, unless your taking growth hormone.

I look back on McGwire hitting 62, and it's sad. This is even more sad.

[McAfee]

I don't think he'll be hitting 50 HR a year when he's in his late thirties. I think it will probably take him about 8 years to break.

I'm just saying at current pace. And really, it's hard to say how many he'll hit/year in 5 years time. He's averaging about 42 per season, and he's on pace for 52 this year.

[Magnum V.I.]

Was the commercial for cocaine?

No :( It was for a car.

[Magnum V.I.]

Find a before and after picture of ARod.

Bonds was a great player, and a tremendous hitter before hit started juicing. Anyone who believes that the way he changed physically is natural is fooling themselves.

I'm a Cardinals fan. I remember wondering why McGwire's batting helmet seemed to be sitting way on top of his head.

It's not natural to have your skull grow.

Your muscles can get bigger, but your BONES don't, unless your taking growth hormone.

I look back on McGwire hitting 62, and it's sad. This is even more sad.

That's good and all. But The question still remains, is A-Rod juicing or corking his bats?

[Bill!]

Exactly. It's not like people aren't still talking about Honus Wagner, Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Joe Demagio, Mickey Mantle, Roger Marris, and Hank Aaron and the hundreds of other great players that have graced the game.

The point is, now Hank Aaron is linked to Barry Bonds, the same way Maris was to McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds. It's not fun to think about.

Cobb is an asshole and people didn't care about his records the same because of it, not to mention they're less glorious. And as for Ruth, Dimaggio and Mantle, they either never held records or they weren't broken by the new age homerun era ball players.

[Doc Randy]

this is the most well known, and up until today the most revered record in all of sports. no other record was even close. now it's just another meaningless number.

Umm.. that is what peopl said about Maris breaking Ruth's single-season record.

Plenty of racist assholes said the same thing about Hank Aaron when he broke Ruth's big record.

[Albert]

Umm.. that is what peopl said about Maris breaking Ruth's single-season record.

Plenty of racist assholes said the same thing about Hank Aaron when he broke Ruth's big record.

Yes, but now because of the Internet, idle complaining can reach a lot more people!

[Bill!]

Umm.. that is what peopl said about Maris breaking Ruth's single-season record.

Plenty of racist assholes said the same thing about Hank Aaron when he broke Ruth's big record.

But those were racists and assholes from New York. Other people loved them. And Maris and Aaron were normal guys. They weren't ridiculous muscle men.

[Smokinblues]

Umm.. that is what peopl said about Maris breaking Ruth's single-season record.

Plenty of racist assholes said the same thing about Hank Aaron when he broke Ruth's big record.
so? That was judging someone because of their skin and had nothing to do with the accomplishment itself. Bonds's drug use is why he broke the record.

[gibbEy]

That's good and all. But The question still remains, is A-Rod juicing or corking his bats?

Does his head and jaw look bigger than before?

[Magnum V.I.]

Does his head and jaw look bigger than before?

A little. Aren't there Steroids that only increase Muscle Mass?

[John M. Coker (Johnny C.)]

That's completely different though and very far off. Guys like Hunter, Sizemore, Ichiro, these guys play their asses off. They know the game is both offensive and defensive. They don't just go through the motions in the field.

And don't get me started on basketball. That sport is a joke.

But that's the players, and the players are not the reason why longballs are so "important". It's the fans, and the media. It's what the fans pay money to see, and it's what the media focuses on. You can't ONLY blame the players for giving people what they want.

[Doc Randy]

I'm not a huge fan of Bonds. I just don't think this new record is all that different in context of the checkered history of the game.

I just wish it could have come from a classier guy. That's all.

[gibbEy]

A little. Aren't there Steroids that only increase Muscle Mass?

Yes, but what happened with those guys, is that the steroids caused their muscles to grow very quickly, and the tendons did not...so they weren't strong enough for the giants muscles....and they were constantly hurt....so they started the growth hormone.

Seriously. Look at McGwire, Sosa, Bonds...all of those guys....their fucking HEADS are bigger.

[Bill!]

Does his head and jaw look bigger than before?

A Rod is definitely bigger than when he was young, but not freakishly bigger like Bonds and McGwire were. It looks more like the size a man would get over a ten year period of working out.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20001012/400arod3.jpg
http://www.baseball-reference.com/bpv/images/d/d3/Alex_Rodriguez,_NYY_uniform_walking.jpg

[Smokinblues]

A little. Aren't there Steroids that only increase Muscle Mass?
the difference here is that there is no evidence at all that ARod has ever done anything except maybe cheat on his wife. Canseco says "I have stuff on ARod." that means jack shit. If he had anything serious he would have put it in the first book.

There's a mountain of evidence that Bonds was on the juice. Zero on Arod.

[Bill!]

But that's the players, and the players are not the reason why longballs are so "important". It's the fans, and the media. It's what the fans pay money to see, and it's what the media focuses on. You can't ONLY blame the players for giving people what they want.

I hate the homerun era. I think its ugly. The occasional home run is fun, but that's the only way teams score most of the time anymore. The fundamentals of baseball aren't as important as they used to be, and it makes for less exciting baseball in my opinion. I like the double steal, hit and runs, and well placed hits way more than home runs.

[Magnum V.I.]

the difference here is that there is no evidence at all that ARod has ever done anything except maybe cheat on his wife. Canseco says "I have stuff on ARod." that means jack shit. If he had anything serious he would have put it in the first book.

There's a mountain of evidence that Bonds was on the juice. Zero on Arod.

What About Corked bats?

[Bill!]

What About Corked bats?

Are you serious? He's not Sammy Sosa.

[Doc Randy]

I hate the homerun era. I think its ugly. The occasional home run is fun, but that's the only way teams score most of the time anymore. The fundamentals of baseball aren't as important as they used to be, and it makes for less exciting baseball in my opinion. I like the double steal, hit and runs, and well placed hits way more than home runs.

Thank God for the minor leagues and college baseball!

[John M. Coker (Johnny C.)]

I hate the homerun era. I think its ugly. The occasional home run is fun, but that's the only way teams score most of the time anymore. The fundamentals of baseball aren't as important as they used to be, and it makes for less exciting baseball in my opinion. I like the double steal, hit and runs, and well placed hits way more than home runs.

I agree with you 100%. All I'm saying is, I'm not going to hate Bonds for being a product of today's game.

[Magnum V.I.]

Are you serious? He's not Sammy Sosa.

All I'm saying is everyone treats this record like it's the end all be all record that can never be broken. if a young guy who looks like he could beat the record might do it, shouldn't everyone be turning a careful eye to him?

[McAfee]

A Rod is definitely bigger than when he was young, but not freakishly bigger like Bonds and McGwire were. It looks more like the size a man would get over a ten year period of working out.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20001012/400arod3.jpg
http://www.baseball-reference.com/bpv/images/d/d3/Alex_Rodriguez,_NYY_uniform_walking.jpg

No doubt. Hell, I've gained about 10lbs of muscle in the past year, and I wouldn't touche an illegal substance with a ten foot pole.

Plus, I read where he shed about 7% of his bodyfat for this season.

As for corked bats. That's just speculation until someone catches him. I'm sure he's broken more than one or two bats this season.

[Bill!]

All I'm saying is everyone treats this record like it's the end all be all record that can never be broken. if a young guy who looks like he could beat the record might do it, shouldn't everyone be turning a careful eye to him?

A Rod is a genuinely super talented player who ADDITIONALLY has no tarnish to his name about cheating. He's just sort of a jerk.

[Smokinblues]

All I'm saying is everyone treats this record like it's the end all be all record that can never be broken. if a young guy who looks like he could beat the record might do it, shouldn't everyone be turning a careful eye to him?
If there was reason to based on any kind of evidence, sure. it's not like people are just making this shit up about bonds. and it's not that the record shouldn't be broken. it's that the record and hank aaron shouldn't have to be tainted by this gassed up bitch.

[McAfee]

I hate the homerun era. I think its ugly. The occasional home run is fun, but that's the only way teams score most of the time anymore. The fundamentals of baseball aren't as important as they used to be, and it makes for less exciting baseball in my opinion. I like the double steal, hit and runs, and well placed hits way more than home runs.

I do miss the days of the stolen base. When's the last time someone took 100 in a season? 1990 or so?

[gibbEy]

I agree with you 100%. All I'm saying is, I'm not going to hate Bonds for being a product of today's game.

Sorry, but I'm not going to write something like this off by saying "well....other people cheated too."

That's a shit attitude.

[Magnum V.I.]

A Rod is a genuinely super talented player who ADDITIONALLY has no tarnish to his name about cheating. He's just sort of a jerk.


If there was reason to based on any kind of evidence, sure. it's not like people are just making this shit up about bonds. and it's not that the record shouldn't be broken. it's that the record and hank aaron shouldn't have to be tainted by this gassed up bitch.

Ok. I was just wondering. I have no personal opinion on the matter really.

[John M. Coker (Johnny C.)]

Sorry, but I'm not going to write something like this off by saying "well....other people cheated too."

That's a shit attitude.

I'm not talking about his drug use.

[Magnum V.I.]

Sorry, but I'm not going to write something like this off by saying "well....other people cheated too."

That's a shit attitude.

Everyone who has cheated in baseball should have an asterisk next to there name. Every pitcher caught juicing the ball or sanding it or whatever, every player with a corked bat. Everything that is cheating should just be asterisked.

[Bill!]

I'm not talking about his drug use.

But other players can give the masses what they want, homeruns, without juicing up. Bonds should have been able to also. Which is why he's such a prick. He was super talented, but was greedy enough to feel he needed to enhance his natural ability with drugs.

[gibbEy]

I'm not talking about his drug use.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were....but I have to ask...what are you talking about? :)

[Bill!]

Everyone who has cheated in baseball should have an asterisk next to there name. Every pitcher caught juicing the ball or sanding it or whatever, every player with a corked bat. Everything that is cheating should just be asterisked.

That kind of thing though isn't something you can hide like steroid abuse. And a pitcher scuffing the ball isn't going to break career records doing it. You can find easy evidence of corking or marking the ball, but its not like we can force Barry's body to show us the steroids its ingested.

[Bill!]

They're saying the guy who caught the ball is a 22 year old from Queens who decided to just walk up and buy a ticket today on the spur of the moment.

[gibbEy]

Everyone who has cheated in baseball should have an asterisk next to there name. Every pitcher caught juicing the ball or sanding it or whatever, every player with a corked bat. Everything that is cheating should just be asterisked.

There's a big difference....guys who scuffed balls get caught....guys who use a corked bat...you're going to have a bat that breaks...

But, I have decided this: YOU deserve and asterisk!:

* <--VillageIdiot.

[Magnum V.I.]

There's a big difference....guys who scuffed balls get caught....guys who use a corked bat...you're going to have a bat that breaks...

But, I have decided this: YOU deserve and asterisk!:

* <--VillageIdiot.

But I don't understand why Asterisk one guy for Juicing and Cheating instead of all players who cheat?

[Bill!]

But I don't understand why Asterisk one guy for Juicing and Cheating instead of all players who cheat?

Most players caught cheating don't have records.

Joe Niekro constantly fucked with the ball, but he doesn't have any records. People mostly remember him for fucking up the ball.

[gibbEy]

But I don't understand why Asterisk one guy for Juicing and Cheating instead of all players who cheat?

I'm not asking for an asterisk.

I AM, however, asking why the random Capitalization of certain Words.

?

Also:

http://r_harrison.tripod.com/Agonist/BarryBonds.jpg

and again:

http://r_harrison.tripod.com/Agonist/BarryBonds.jpg

[Magnum V.I.]

Most players caught cheating don't have records.

Joe Niekro constantly fucked with the ball, but he doesn't have any records. People mostly remember him for fucking up the ball.

I'm just looking for consistency. Should Pete Rose have an Asterisk?

[RickLM]

I know what you are saying, but regardless... his pre-1999, pre-steroids career is still impressive enough to warrant the mantle of greatness.

I just think it is odd that so many people act as if the game is any more corrupt or tainted than it has ever been. It has ALWAYS been corrupt and tainted. Jesus... just go back to Ken Burns for a refresher. The only thing more persistent than baseball's taint is its ability to hide it through romanticized nostalgia.


Yeah, that's right, Burns' film was FULL of players using performance enhancing drugs. How could I forget the juiced players of the dead ball era? :blah:

[Bill!]

I'm just looking for consistency. Should Pete Rose have an Asterisk?

Pete Rose didn't cheat in his performance. Plus the guy has been banned from the Hall of Fame. So I'd say that's a lot bigger than an asterisk.

[Jonny Z]

They're saying the guy who caught the ball is a 22 year old from Queens who decided to just walk up and buy a ticket today on the spur of the moment.

matt murphy. apparently he was wearing a mets jersey :)

[John M. Coker (Johnny C.)]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were....but I have to ask...what are you talking about? :)

How today's game has become all about the longball. And that fielding and baserunning is no longer important.

I don't like it either, but it isn't really the players' faults. I can't hate players for playing the game that the game has evolved into. It;s the same way in basketball, I don't really care for the flash and power that today's game has become, but I'm not going to hate the players for playing that kind of game, it is what puts asses in the seats. It's the fans, and the media who are to blame.

[gibbEy]

I'm just looking for consistency. Should Pete Rose have an Asterisk?

How did his betting on games as a manager change the hits record?

[Magnum V.I.]

Pete Rose didn't cheat in his performance. Plus the guy has been banned from the Hall of Fame. So I'd say that's a lot bigger than an asterisk.

true.


How did his betting on games as a manager change the hits record?

I don't know. I'm not a baseball expert.

[gibbEy]

How today's game has become all about the longball. And that fielding and baserunning is no longer important.

I don't like it either, but it isn't really the players' faults. I can't hate players for playing the game that the game has evolved into. It;s the same way in basketball, I don't really care for the flash and power that today's game has become, but I'm not going to hate the players for playing that kind of game, it is what puts asses in the seats. It's the fans, and the media who are to blame.

So....it's understandable that someone would take drugs, because that's what people wanted? Sorry....don't see it.

Also, the game has moved away from that recently....we're seeing much more stolen bases, moving runners over, etc.....

[gibbEy]

true.



I don't know. I'm not a baseball expert.

:)

This is why you're one of my favorite people.

(please don't let that go to your head)

[John M. Coker (Johnny C.)]

So....it's understandable that someone would take drugs, because that's what people wanted? Sorry....don't see it.

Also, the game has moved away from that recently....we're seeing much more stolen bases, moving runners over, etc.....

Once again-- I am NOT talking about his drug use whatsoever.

[Fusion]

matt murphy. apparently he was wearing a mets jersey :)

This guy must have had one hell of an asskicking for the baseball.

OH YEAH.

FUCK!YEAH!!!

:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

[gibbEy]

Once again-- I am NOT talking about his drug use whatsoever.

Okay....but please tell me why Bonds is cool, just because he's a product of the game...

I'm really not trying to be an ass.

[Doc Randy]

Yeah, that's right, Burns' film was FULL of players using performance enhancing drugs. How could I forget the juiced players of the dead ball era? :blah:

hahaha

Not juicers, but full of cheats, scumbags, and assholes. Baseball was never rosy perfect.

Like I said, the only thing more persistent than baseball's taint is its ability to hide it through romanticized nostalgia. And this is coming from someone who really loves the game.

[Magnum V.I.]

:)

This is why you're one of my favorite people.

(please don't let that go to your head)

Oh It has. I have a Stiffy right now.

[andeparks]

Long live Maris and Aaron!

Anj

[John M. Coker (Johnny C.)]

Okay....but please tell me why Bonds is cool, just because he's a product of the game...

I'm really not trying to be an ass.

I don't think Bonds is cool, I'm not a Bonds fan at all, I don't care one way or the other about the guy.

[Matt O'Keefe]

Once again-- I am NOT talking about his drug use whatsoever.

Then what are you talking about?


hahaha

Not juicers, but full of cheats, scumbags, and assholes. Baseball was never rosy perfect.

Like I said, the only thing more persistent than baseball's taint is its ability to hide it through romanticized nostalgia. And this is coming from someone who really loves the game.

When were the Black Sox again?

[gibbEy]

Oh It has. I have a Stiffy right now.

Can I see it?

:(

[gibbEy]

I agree with you 100%. All I'm saying is, I'm not going to hate Bonds for being a product of today's game.

This is what I don't understand...

[Buk Was Right]

hahaha

Not juicers, but full of cheats, scumbags, and assholes. Baseball was never rosy perfect.

Like I said, the only thing more persistent than baseball's taint is its ability to hide it through romanticized nostalgia. And this is coming from someone who really loves the game.

Well said.

In support of you I'm buying an Oni book tomorrow.

There's so much hate in this thread it's a little sickening... I understand that that's just the nature of the internet (and sports for that matter), but jeez... you'd think Bonds murdered someone's grandma.

In any event it was a hell of a spectacle and as a Giants fan it's been a hell of a ride. I'm glad I got to witness it.

[Magnum V.I.]

Can I see it?

:(

No.

[gibbEy]

No.

:(

[John M. Coker (Johnny C.)]

"But its tainted. Not just because of the steroid stuff, but also just because Bonds is a complete tool. All this bullshit he has spewed about teamwork and just caring about his team winning is a load. He barely even plays when he's in the outfield. He doesn't even try. He's a joke and all he cares about is batting. Plus he has no class. He's in love with himself, and its obvious."

"I hate the homerun era. I think its ugly. The occasional home run is fun, but that's the only way teams score most of the time anymore. The fundamentals of baseball aren't as important as they used to be, and it makes for less exciting baseball in my opinion. I like the double steal, hit and runs, and well placed hits way more than home runs."

[Shane W]

Most players caught cheating don't have records.

Joe Niekro constantly fucked with the ball, but he doesn't have any records. People mostly remember him for fucking up the ball.

The difference is, he's actually a confirmed cheat. And no matter what, at this point we only highly suspectBonds.

[Buk Was Right]

The difference is, he's actually a confirmed cheat. And no matter what, at this point we only highly suspectBonds.

Uh Shane? Sports talk radio has pretty much confirmed that Bonds cheated... And if those guys aren't the calm voice of reason I don't know who is...

[gibbEy]

Uh Shane? Sports talk radio has pretty much confirmed that Bonds cheated... And if those guys aren't the calm voice of reason I don't know who is...

Oh for fuck's sake....

You honestly believe he's legit?

[Shane W]

Uh Shane? Sports talk radio has pretty much confirmed that Bonds cheated... And if those guys aren't the calm voice of reason I don't know who is...

Yeah, I forgot.

[Buk Was Right]

Oh for fuck's sake....

You honestly believe he's legit?

I believe that he's never tested positive for steroids.

[batmanbooyah]

while the home run record is fine to look at, it's not the best record in baseball. the most wins record should be the most coveted. or longest consecutive games played. shit that matters. hitting a home run, anyone can do that. pitching 9 innings for that win, or playing for 15 years straight without missing one game? THOSE are achievements.

[RickLM]

Well said.

In support of you I'm buying an Oni book tomorrow.

There's so much hate in this thread it's a little sickening... I understand that that's just the nature of the internet (and sports for that matter), but jeez... you'd think Bonds murdered someone's grandma.

In any event it was a hell of a spectacle and as a Giants fan it's been a hell of a ride. I'm glad I got to witness it.


What's so hard to understand? Bonds is juiced. His achievement is on par with Ben Johnson's gold medal -- its a fraud. That makes people upset.

[batmanbooyah]

What's so hard to understand? Bonds is juiced. His achievement is on par with Ben Johnson's gold medal -- its a fraud. That makes people upset.

why all the hate at bonds then? why not hate the dude who got a 7million dollars a year contract due in part to his steroid use? why aren't people bitching at that?

[Shane W]

Oh for fuck's sake....

You honestly believe he's legit?

In this thread, there's only been one person who is a confirmed cheater named.. And he was given a "pass" because he wasn't close to a record. Listen, I'm of the opinion that Bonds took the juice, but you know what? It's coming out that a ton of players did, including, I'm sure, many pitchers that bonds took deep. It's not as if Bonds is the only one out there with an unfair advantage over the rest of the league.

[Jonny Z]

did bonds even realize his son was standing at home plate? if you watch, he barely acknowledges him.

[gibbEy]

I believe that he's never tested positive for steroids.

haha....

Do you think he took steroids or growth hormone?

[gibbEy]

In this thread, there's only been one person who is a confirmed cheater named.. And he was given a "pass" because he wasn't close to a record. Listen, I'm of the opinion that Bonds took the juice, but you know what? It's coming out that a ton of players did, including, I'm sure, many pitchers that bonds took deep. It's not as if Bonds is the only one out there with an unfair advantage over the rest of the league.

That doesn't make it right.

[Buk Was Right]

while the home run record is fine to look at, it's not the best record in baseball. the most wins record should be the most coveted. or longest consecutive games played. shit that matters. hitting a home run, anyone can do that. pitching 9 innings for that win, or playing for 15 years straight without missing one game? THOSE are achievements.

I absolutely agree.

I think the 56 game hit streak is probably the most impressive record in baseball.

Some would say Ryan's 7 no hitters, others the back to back no hitters (the pitcher's name escapes me), but i'm going with 56...

[Humphrey_Lee]

while the home run record is fine to look at, it's not the best record in baseball. the most wins record should be the most coveted. or longest consecutive games played. shit that matters. hitting a home run, anyone can do that. pitching 9 innings for that win, or playing for 15 years straight without missing one game? THOSE are achievements.

Far as I'm concerned the three most impressive records in that sport are Rose's hits, Ripken's consecutive streak, and DiMaggio's hitting streak. All more impressive than the HR's, and all damn unlikely to be touched.

[batmanbooyah]

did bonds even realize his son was standing at home plate? if you watch, he barely acknowledges him.

that was his son? from his reaction it looked like a batboy. not the cool vampire kid either!!

[RickLM]

why all the hate at bonds then? why not hate the dude who got a 7million dollars a year contract due in part to his steroid use? why aren't people bitching at that?


People are bitching about all of them. But Bonds is receiving attention because he's been pursuing a legendary record all season. Sort of makes sense people would discuss him right now....

A lot of the bitching is out of frustration. Major League Baseball seems unable or unwilling to tackle this thing head on, and fans can't understand why they are so impotent.

[gibbEy]

I absolutely agree.

I think the 56 game hit streak is probably the most impressive record in baseball.

Some would say Ryan's 7 no hitters, others the back to back no hitters (the pitcher's name escapes me), but i'm going with 56...

I agree....I've always thought that the 56 game hitting streak, Cal's consecutive games, and the 47 game winning streak Oklahoma had (college football), are three that won't be broken....

Edit: forgot about Rose's hits record. :)

[Buk Was Right]

What's so hard to understand? Bonds is juiced. His achievement is on par with Ben Johnson's gold medal -- its a fraud. That makes people upset.

Whatever... I'm not interested in a yes he did no he didn't shouting match.

As I've said before, no one here is going to change anyone's mind... We've all pretty much decided where we stand and what we stand for in regards to Bonds so we're all just here shouting to hear ourselves shout and trying like hell to say the cleverest thing. I'm done. I'm going to go watch the Giants' bully fold up like a card table.

Have a good night gentlemen. Play ball.

[batmanbooyah]

People are bitching about all of them. But Bonds is receiving attention because he's been pursuing a legendary record all season. Sort of makes sense people would discuss him right now....

A lot of the bitching is out of frustration. Major League Baseball seems unable or unwilling to tackle this thing head on, and fans can't understand why they are so impotent.

i know, i was just pointing that out. its obvious why they're focusing on bonds.


and i think the fans don't realize that eventhough this is a "game" it's also a buisness. it's not Jesus as baseball commissioner and buddah as the SF giants manager, it's dudes who have financial interests in the game. they might like the game, but at the end of the day, bonds hitting homers brings in viewers.

[Shane W]

That doesn't make it right.


There's a lot of shit that isn't right. Bonds beat Aaron, do you not think that Aaron wouldn't have used? We don't know, Hell, Ruth would have probably jacked up if he had the opportunity.

Bonds has the record, and while he may be a dick, he did it under what appears to be the same condition as many (most?) other players. If as many were juicing as Canseco claims, is it really cheating?

[Shane W]

Far as I'm concerned the three most impressive records in that sport are Rose's hits, Ripken's consecutive streak, and DiMaggio's hitting streak. All more impressive than the HR's, and all damn unlikely to be touched.

What about Rose's out record?

[gibbEy]

There's a lot of shit that isn't right. Bonds beat Aaron, do you not think that Aaron wouldn't have used? We don't know, Hell, Ruth would have probably jacked up if he had the opportunity.

Bonds has the record, and while he may be a dick, he did it under what appears to be the same condition as many (most?) other players. If as many were juicing as Canseco claims, is it really cheating?

That's still a shit attitude, and doesn't make it right, man.

Aaron didn't use. He's a better home run hitter than Barry Bonds.

[Humphrey_Lee]

What about Rose's out record?

Well that one just takes dedication. :)

[Shane W]

That's still a shit attitude, and doesn't make it right, man.

Aaron didn't use. He's a better home run hitter than Barry Bonds.

No, he's not. He's second, unless you want to claim that Bonds is the only one cheating. Hell, we had a pitcher get caught red handed in the WS last year and no one seems to care about that at all.

[gibbEy]

No, he's not. He's second, unless you want to claim that Bonds is the only one cheating. Hell, we had a pitcher get caught red handed in the WS last year and no one seems to care about that at all.

Do you really think there are pitchers who scuffed the ball to major records?

And, as a fellow Cards fan, Kenny Rogers is a pile of shit....that being said....he's not going to cheat himself to a big record.....

[Shane W]

Do you really think there are pitchers who scuffed the ball to major records?

And, as a fellow Cards fan, Kenny Rogers is a pile of shit....that being said....he's not going to cheat himself to a big record.....

Gaylord Perry cheated his was to the HOF. Rogers was trying to cheat his way to a WS win. People looked the other way for them. Hell, Sosa was caught cheating, and he's still treated like a lovable teddy bear. I believe that Bonds took steroids, but I don't think he "cheated" in the sense that I do not know what pitchers did or did not cheat either.

[gibbEy]

Gaylord Perry cheated his was to the HOF. Rogers was trying to cheat his way to a WS win. People looked the other way for them. Hell, Sosa was caught cheating, and he's still treated like a lovable teddy bear. I believe that Bonds took steroids, but I don't think he "cheated" in the sense that I do not know what pitchers did or did not cheat either.

I will give you Perry....but it's different.

I have no idea why people look the other way for Rogers.

Sosa was caught.....I can't stand his ass. The guy is totally full of shit. Not only did he juice, but that wasn't even good enough.

I agree that there are lots of things wrong with the "steroid era", but Bonds is the absolute saddest part of the whole thing....

I'm just tired of it all being written off as "well, everyone is cheating", or "they didn't test for it".

It doesn't make it less sad for guys back in the day who worked their nuts off to earn it.

[gibbEy]

Sorry, just thought of this....

Honestly....how do you think Hank Aaron feels right now?

I doubt he's saying "Oh well, everyone was taking the 'roids"

"That's how things have been for awhile."

"Yes, his hat size is 5 times bigger, but baseball didn't test for HGH....and still don't."

"It's just what baseball has been about for awhile"

Did he fuck.

[Shane W]

Sorry, just thought of this....

Honestly....how do you think Hank Aaron feels right now?

I doubt he's saying "Oh well, everyone was taking the 'roids"

"That's how things have been for awhile."

"Yes, his hat size is 5 times bigger, but baseball didn't test for HGH....and still don't."

"It's just what baseball has been about for awhile"

Did he fuck.

Is that a subtle Douglas Adams reference?

[Matt O'Keefe]

Sorry, just thought of this....

Honestly....how do you think Hank Aaron feels right now?

I doubt he's saying "Oh well, everyone was taking the 'roids"

"That's how things have been for awhile."

"Yes, his hat size is 5 times bigger, but baseball didn't test for HGH....and still don't."

"It's just what baseball has been about for awhile"

Did he fuck.

I doubt he gives a shit, personally.

[gibbEy]

Is that a subtle Douglas Adams reference?

Who the hell is Douglas Adams? :)

[gibbEy]

I doubt he gives a shit, personally.

You think Hank Aaron doesn't give a shit?

Seriously?

[Matt O'Keefe]

You think Hank Aaron doesn't give a shit?

Seriously?

Yeah, for some reason I picture him as someone who realizes that the records are meaningless. Knows there are more important things and it doesn't take away what he accomplished.

[gibbEy]

Yeah, for some reason I picture him as someone who realizes that the records are meaningless. Knows there are more important things and it doesn't take away what he accomplished.

Have you seen any of the interviews he's given recently?

[Brewtown Andy]

Sorry, just thought of this....

Honestly....how do you think Hank Aaron feels right now?

I doubt he's saying "Oh well, everyone was taking the 'roids"

"That's how things have been for awhile."

"Yes, his hat size is 5 times bigger, but baseball didn't test for HGH....and still don't."

"It's just what baseball has been about for awhile"

Did he fuck.You know that science doesn't have a reliable test for HGH, right?

Also, does anyone else think the picture on ESPN.com is weird, what with Bonds celebrating, but the catcher still has his glove extended like he's waiting for the pitch?

[Colby]

Yeah, but people don't really remember the bad players records like they do the good one. I don't hear too many people swooning over Ty Cobbs record because the man was a complete dick. But people loved Aaron's record. People love Cal's record. These are good guys and its sad to see their memories tainted in any way. Bonds was a great player, but he is an asshole, a criminal, and a cheater. He's bad for baseball. People may think this is good for baseball, but in the long run, it won't be. The power records are all becoming shallow and meaningless.

And they still will. Trust me, Aaron is still the home run king, that record will always be associated with him. It's the same with the single-season record i- even when Bonds hit 73, we were still talking about Maris.

And A-Rod is a consumate athlete, but I don't see him as too douchey. My problem with him is he's so emotionally fragile...

[Colby]

Gaylord Perry cheated his was to the HOF. Rogers was trying to cheat his way to a WS win. People looked the other way for them. Hell, Sosa was caught cheating, and he's still treated like a lovable teddy bear. I believe that Bonds took steroids, but I don't think he "cheated" in the sense that I do not know what pitchers did or did not cheat either.

Eh, I dunno about that one. I live in the very heart of the beast that is Wrigleyville, and he's still universeally reviled. Though it seems to be for many reasons...

[Brewtown Andy]

And A-Rod is a consumate athlete, but I don't see him as too douchey. My problem with him is he's so emotionally fragile...I hate him because 1) He's the baseball Cooler and 2) People have been spending way too much time talking about how he would lean towards signing with the Cubs if he opts out. The Cubs have their own problems, they don't need The Cooler, too.

And as far as douchey goes:

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/_photos/2004-10-20-arod-arroyo.jpg

[Brewtown Andy]

Eh, I dunno about that one. I live in the very heart of the beast that is Wrigleyville, and he's still universeally reviled. Though it seems to be for many reasons...I was at the game where he hit #600, and people, Cubs and Rangers fans alike were WAY too fucking excited.

And, to no one's surprise, #600 was a solo shot when the Rangers already had a 3 run lead. :twisted:

[Colby]

I hate him because 1) He's the baseball Cooler and 2) People have been spending way too much time talking about how he would lean towards signing with the Cubs if he opts out. The Cubs have their own problems, they don't need The Cooler, too.

And as far as douchey goes:

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/_photos/2004-10-20-arod-arroyo.jpg

People spend way too much time talking about him, period. And yeah, he annoys the shit out of me, too, but it's more because he seems so whiney. "Waaah, why aren't Jeter and I friends anymore? Waah, the New York media is SO mean! Waaah, Derek, catch the pop-ups, I've been afraid of them since little league!"

[gibbEy]

You know that science doesn't have a reliable test for HGH, right?

Also, does anyone else think the picture on ESPN.com is weird, what with Bonds celebrating, but the catcher still has his glove extended like he's waiting for the pitch?

Yes, I'm aware of that....your point is?

[Bill!]

People spend way too much time talking about him, period. And yeah, he annoys the shit out of me, too, but it's more because he seems so whiney. "Waaah, why aren't Jeter and I friends anymore? Waah, the New York media is SO mean! Waaah, Derek, catch the pop-ups, I've been afraid of them since little league!"

My problem with A Rod is he is so immensely talented yet he has pulled some major bush league shit. It really sours my opinion of him because of it.

[gibbEy]

My problem with A Rod is he is so immensely talented yet he has pulled some major bush league shit. It really sours my opinion of him because of it.

quoted for truth....

It's hard to stand up for some of the shit he's done.

[ERNIE_E]

Find a before and after picture of ARod.

Bonds was a great player, and a tremendous hitter before hit started juicing. Anyone who believes that the way he changed physically is natural is fooling themselves.

I'm a Cardinals fan. I remember wondering why McGwire's batting helmet seemed to be sitting way on top of his head.

It's not natural to have your skull grow.

Your muscles can get bigger, but your BONES don't, unless your taking growth hormone.

I look back on McGwire hitting 62, and it's sad. This is even more sad.


You know, I have gained quite a bit of weight over the last ten years of my life and my head and cap size grew from a few sizes. I didn't takesteroids or HGH, I just got fatter.

I don't mind baseball stopping the game. I've seen two Cleveland Indians hit 3000 hits (Eddie Murray and Dave Winfield) and they stopped the game to recognize that. They stopped the game for Cal Ripken and they do it for everything else. Enough with trying to find another way to treat the guy differently.


Again, I think if we're going to put an * in front of any record then you take dozens of players and put *'s in front of their name for playing in this era. There's been lots of players, position players and pitchers who are suspected of using. Baseball wanted the homerun to rule the game and if it was REALLY serious about nailing guys to the wall for juicing they would have done something long before 5 years ago. I mean, cmon, it took Selig to read a fucking book to realize that his game was being tainted. Still, there's just no way to separate him from the decade of players who have used something, anything and for now he's the homerun king.

All of this glorification about A-Rod breaking it next is a joke. He's a fucking tired asshole too who thinks he's a godsend to New York. Here's a note. NY hasn't won a World Series with A-Rod. He's honestly one of the many sluggers who should be questioned over the past several years worth of knocking it out of the park.


Back to Bonds, I think Bonds has handled this all well. I like anyone have my suspicions but again there's others who I cheered for in that era. There was not many who were booing the home run derby of Sosa and McGwire. They belong in the same breath of Bonds as they preceeded Bonds transformation and started baseball down this path.

I can think of several players on many teams over the years who I'm sure took similar supplements. I don't condone it, but baseball was fine with it. And it doesn't taint the game any more than the entire past decade has already done. If you let this bother you, then I admire your convictions.

I still think Bonds has a great legacy, and everything he did prior to the 73 year is hall of fame material: 8 golden gloves, several MVPs, tons of stolen bases, countless intentional walks, and homeruns when he maybe gets 1 or 2 pitches a night to even put a good bat on the ball. Like him or not, he was the best player in baseball then and is still one of the best now and until the evidence comes out and the truth comes out, and baseball takes the numbers away, then we can start to tear the man for what he did. I hope Bonds stays around long enough to hit 800 just so he can show that after 2005, he was able to hit another 50 for good measure.

Is he a prick? Sure. But like Pete Rose, I don't have to like the guy but I still acknowledge what he did on the bases. I've listened to his press conferences through tonight and I see nothing i can really hate about the guy given the circumstances, and I'm not even a Bonds fan. At least not as much when he was a Pirate.

There are many dickheads in sports but his numbers still must be acknowledged. Again, until baseball takes the numbers away, they'll be there and I'm fine with it. Do they take away homeruns from those with corked bats? Do they take away strikeouts from known spitball/pinetar/greaseball pitchers? NO. All are ways to cheat. Baseball is a game played as clean as a bathroom rag. Unwritten rules and code amongst players be damned. There are cheaters in every generation. Unfortunately, there's a lot of "cheaters" in this generation, so again, I'm not going to treat him any different than the rest of that generation of players.

And all this talk about people forgetting Aaron and forever remembering Bonds is hogwash. The greats of the games will always be remembered and we still talk so highly of Ted Williams, Al Kaline, Willy Mays, Cal Ripken, Nolan Ryan today. And if you don't know the history of sports then that's on those of today who don't pass it along or who don't take time out to learn about the greats who established the game.

[Taxman]

By the way, I really hate how they stop the game to do all this celebration bull shit. Did it with McGwire too. When Maris hit his 61st, he came out and tipped his cap once and the game went on. I hate watching baseball do this kind of thing to itself, this self love masturbation crap.The world was not obsessed with self promotion in 1960.

[Fusion]

You know, I have gained quite a bit of weight over the last ten years of my life and my head and cap size grew from a few sizes. I didn't takesteroids or HGH, I just got fatter.

I don't mind baseball stopping the game. I've seen two Cleveland Indians hit 3000 hits (Eddie Murray and Dave Winfield) and they stopped the game to recognize that. They stopped the game for Cal Ripken and they do it for everything else. Enough with trying to find another way to treat the guy differently.


Again, I think if we're going to put an * in front of any record then you take dozens of players and put *'s in front of their name for playing in this era. There's been lots of players, position players and pitchers who are suspected of using. Baseball wanted the homerun to rule the game and if it was REALLY serious about nailing guys to the wall for juicing they would have done something long before 5 years ago. I mean, cmon, it took Selig to read a fucking book to realize that his game was being tainted. Still, there's just no way to separate him from the decade of players who have used something, anything and for now he's the homerun king.

All of this glorification about A-Rod breaking it next is a joke. He's a fucking tired asshole too who thinks he's a godsend to New York. Here's a note. NY hasn't won a World Series with A-Rod. He's honestly one of the many sluggers who should be questioned over the past several years worth of knocking it out of the park.


Back to Bonds, I think Bonds has handled this all well. I like anyone have my suspicions but again there's others who I cheered for in that era. There was not many who were booing the home run derby of Sosa and McGwire. They belong in the same breath of Bonds as they preceeded Bonds transformation and started baseball down this path.

I can think of several players on many teams over the years who I'm sure took similar supplements. I don't condone it, but baseball was fine with it. And it doesn't taint the game any more than the entire past decade has already done. If you let this bother you, then I admire your convictions.

I still think Bonds has a great legacy, and everything he did prior to the 73 year is hall of fame material: 8 golden gloves, several MVPs, tons of stolen bases, countless intentional walks, and homeruns when he maybe gets 1 or 2 pitches a night to even put a good bat on the ball. Like him or not, he was the best player in baseball then and is still one of the best now and until the evidence comes out and the truth comes out, and baseball takes the numbers away, then we can start to tear the man for what he did. I hope Bonds stays around long enough to hit 800 just so he can show that after 2005, he was able to hit another 50 for good measure.

Is he a prick? Sure. But like Pete Rose, I don't have to like the guy but I still acknowledge what he did on the bases. I've listened to his press conferences through tonight and I see nothing i can really hate about the guy given the circumstances, and I'm not even a Bonds fan. At least not as much when he was a Pirate.

There are many dickheads in sports but his numbers still must be acknowledged. Again, until baseball takes the numbers away, they'll be there and I'm fine with it. Do they take away homeruns from those with corked bats? Do they take away strikeouts from known spitball/pinetar/greaseball pitchers? NO. All are ways to cheat. Baseball is a game played as clean as a bathroom rag. Unwritten rules and code amongst players be damned. There are cheaters in every generation. Unfortunately, there's a lot of "cheaters" in this generation, so again, I'm not going to treat him any different than the rest of that generation of players.

And all this talk about people forgetting Aaron and forever remembering Bonds is hogwash. The greats of the games will always be remembered and we still talk so highly of Ted Williams, Al Kaline, Willy Mays, Cal Ripken, Nolan Ryan today. And if you don't know the history of sports then that's on those of today who don't pass it along or who don't take time out to learn about the greats who established the game.

Well said! :cool:

[Smokinblues]

The difference is, he's actually a confirmed cheat. And no matter what, at this point we only highly suspectBonds.
that's just not true. we suspect everything from that era. I've not seen anything that indicates otherwise, anywhere. Just about every reporter and columnists I've seen on the issue says that we'll never be able to trust anything that comes from that era.

Bonds gets all the attention because he's one of the few players from that era still active, there's a mountain of evidence on him, and he's been chasing the biggest record of all time. But I haven't seen anything to indicate that people think he's the only one to do it, that's just crap that bonds apologists roll out there.

[adamgreenberger]

I love how people hate him becasue they THINK he used 'roids...innocent until proven guilty I say.

[Akira]

But its tainted. Not just because of the steroid stuff, but also just because Bonds is a complete tool.
Why the hell should that matter? Jordan cheated on his wife, Ty Cobb was a racist bastard, Reggie White was a HUGE homophobe but none of that should matter when assessing thier on-field play.

[DaveCummings]

Umm.. that is what peopl said about Maris breaking Ruth's single-season record.

Plenty of racist assholes said the same thing about Hank Aaron when he broke Ruth's big record.

You know Randy, me and you disagree on alot of stuff. But I have to say that I totally agree with you here.

People on the thread are calling Bonds and asshole for the way he acts to say, the media. Well, the media treated his father like shit for years and if I was Bonds and they did that to my dad, I'd give the press a big "fuck you" as well. People forget Roger Maris did the same thing when the press was giving him shit when he was chasing Ruth's record, twisting Maris' words around.

That and people like to give Babe Ruth this god like status, but the man had a ton of issues.

[Akira]

You know Randy, me and you disagree on alot of stuff. But I have to say that I totally agree with you here.

People on the thread are calling Bonds and asshole for the way he acts to say, the media. Well, the media treated his father like shit for years and if I was Bonds and they did that to my dad, I'd give the press a big "fuck you" as well. People forget Roger Maris did the same thing when the press was giving him shit when he was chasing Ruth's record, twisting Maris' words around.

That and people like to give Babe Ruth this god like status, but the man had a ton of issues.
Exactly. Feet of clay, man. Feet of clay.

[DaveCummings]

I'm just looking for consistency. Should Pete Rose have an Asterisk?


No I don't think so, he was banned, which I think is complete Bullshit because he got caught betting on Baseball. Yeah he fucked up, but yet they kept on letting fucking Daryl Strawberry come back every season, despite all the cocaine he was using.

[Captain Sensation]

I don't care. I'm not a Giants fan, I'm not a Barry Bonds fan, so his work ethic, or whatever he does or doesn't do, doesn't mean anything to me one way or the other. But the guy did break a huge record. Good for him, and good for the people that do like him. I have no reason to hate on the guy.

which is where i stand as well. Unless you are related to willie mays or something, im not sure why this should amount to the level of hatred it has on this board. Ive read many of these threads the past couple of months. Its sad that you some of you guys cant say how you feel without sounding like the guy killed one of your family members, that level of hate is totally overboard.

[Akira]

which is where i stand as well. Unless you are related to willie mays or something, im not sure why this should amount to the level of hatred it has on this board. Ive read many of these threads the past couple of months. Its sad that you some of you guys cant say how you feel without sounding like the guy killed one of your family members, that level of hate is totally overboard.

The so-called "righteous indignation" about Bonds is just odd.

[DaveCummings]

Whatever happened to giving a person the benefit of the doubt? Barry has never tested positive on these tests.

[RebootedCorpse]

This just makes me sad.

[DaveCummings]

My problem with A Rod is he is so immensely talented yet he has pulled some major bush league shit. It really sours my opinion of him because of it.


I don't think A Rod is the next guy who has a chance to break the record. I still think the person with the best chance to break the record, and probably would have already if it wasn't for his past injuries is Ken Griffey Jr. And with jr. there is no contoversy surrounding him, at least I don't think so. Then again, I'm a lifelong Reds fan, so that might affect my judgement.

[Shane W]

I don't think A Rod is the next guy who has a chance to break the record. I still think the person with the best chance to break the record, and probably would have already if it wasn't for his past injuries is Ken Griffey Jr. And with jr. there is no contoversy surrounding him, at least I don't think so. Then again, I'm a lifelong Reds fan, so that might affect my judgement.


Griffey may have, but he doesn't have enough career left to break it.

[DaveCummings]

Griffey may have, but he doesn't have enough career left to break it.


I think he has more of a chance than A Rod

[Shane W]

I think he has more of a chance than A Rod


No, he's what 37? He has 2 or 3 years left.. Zero chance.. A-Rod has a "chance" but we still have to see what number Bonds finally hangs out there before we get all giddy.

[Brewtown Andy]

I don't think A Rod is the next guy who has a chance to break the record. I still think the person with the best chance to break the record, and probably would have already if it wasn't for his past injuries is Ken Griffey Jr. And with jr. there is no contoversy surrounding him, at least I don't think so. Then again, I'm a lifelong Reds fan, so that might affect my judgement.The only controversy with Junior is that going to the Reds ended his chance at the record. He's already 37 and now he's injury prone. He needs 4 years of 40 HRS to get to Bonds, and he's not going to do it.

ARod is 32 and the fastest to 500 by nearly a year.

[Deej]

It happened in San Fran, so there was a mob trying to get it.

It doesn't matter where he did it, you'd have to be an idiot to throw THAT ball back!

[Brewtown Andy]

It doesn't matter where he did it, you'd have to be an idiot to throw THAT ball back!I absolutely would have thrown it back if it landed in my hands in the Wrigley bleachers.

[Shane W]

I absolutely would have thrown it back if it landed in my hands in the Wrigley bleachers.

Liar.

[Deej]

I absolutely would have thrown it back if it landed in my hands in the Wrigley bleachers.

wow...that would be one of the dumbest moves of your life!

[Shane W]

wow...that would be one of the dumbest moves of your life!

Well, that is one of the stupidest moves any teams fan base is known for. What are the chances of actually catching a HR ball? Then you throw it back for what? The adulation of a few drunk assholes that sit nest to you for a couple of innings?

[Smokinblues]

Well, that is one of the stupidest moves any teams fan base is known for. What are the chances of actually catching a HR ball? Then you throw it back for what? The adulation of a few drunk assholes that sit nest to you for a couple of innings?
not to mention in this cast it's at least a 6 figure payday. I don't care how you feel about bonds, you don't throw that kind of money away.

[KingMob]

Well, that is one of the stupidest moves any teams fan base is known for. What are the chances of actually catching a HR ball? Then you throw it back for what? The adulation of a few drunk assholes that sit nest to you for a couple of innings?

aww, look who's bitter that he has a shit team this year....wahhhh!

:lol:

[Shane W]

not to mention in this cast it's at least a 6 figure payday. I don't care how you feel about bonds, you don't throw that kind of money away.

What if the drunks around you are really chanting "Throw it back" You have people to impress damnit!!! You would have no choice!

[KingMob]

What if the drunks around you are really chanting "Throw it back" You have people to impress damnit!!! You would have no choice!

wahhhhhhhh!

[Shane W]

aww, look who's bitter that he has a shit team this year....wahhhh!

:lol:

:lol:

[Akira]

I absolutely would have thrown it back if it landed in my hands in the Wrigley bleachers.

Bull fucking shit.
Unless you are independently wealthy, no one in their right minds would've thrown that ball back.

[Deej]

not to mention in this cast it's at least a 6 figure payday. I don't care how you feel about bonds, you don't throw that kind of money away.

Exactly!!

[adamgreenberger]

This just makes me sad.

Why? They have never proved he did anything...ne has never failed a 'Roid test...and until that time he is innocent.

[ERNIE_E]

Well said! :cool:

wow, someone actually read all that :lol:

[Jef UK]

I don't follow sports very closely, so can somebody tell me how a pro athelete like Barry Bonds can use steroids regularly without being caught and punished? Don't they have drug tests in the Major Leagues?

[ERNIE_E]

I don't follow sports very closely, so can somebody tell me how a pro athelete like Barry Bonds can use steroids regularly without being caught and punished? Don't they have drug tests in the Major Leagues?

They only started testing for it a few years ago and not everyone is tested at once. They are randomly picked from what I understand. So again, baseball chose to turn a blind eye to all of this because people were coming back to watch the game after the strike. MLB has had a very soft drug testing policy for years and like any sport, there's people trying to stay ahead of the curve all the time.

[adamgreenberger]

I don't follow sports very closely, so can somebody tell me how a pro athelete like Barry Bonds can use steroids regularly without being caught and punished? Don't they have drug tests in the Major Leagues?

There is drug testing...and he has never failed a test. Or he would have been suspended by now.

[Jef UK]

They only started testing for it a few years ago and not everyone is tested at once. They are randomly picked from what I understand. So again, baseball chose to turn a blind eye to all of this because people were coming back to watch the game after the strike. MLB has had a very soft drug testing policy for years and like any sport, there's people trying to stay ahead of the curve all the time.

Huh. You'd figure they'd just test an entire team like 3 times a year. That sure would be easy.

[DAVE]

I don't follow sports very closely, so can somebody tell me how a pro athelete like Barry Bonds can use steroids regularly without being caught and punished? Don't they have drug tests in the Major Leagues?

There's also Human Growth Hormone, which isn't tested for in current tests.

[adamgreenberger]

Huh. You'd figure they'd just test an entire team like 3 times a year. That sure would be easy.

It is random so you can't prepare for it...it you tell them they are going to get checked 3 times a year...they players might be able to figure out when they are going to get tested.

[Deej]

wow, someone actually read all that :lol:

2 people actually. I agree with what you said too.

[Taxman]

I think he has more of a chance than A RodThat's insanity. A-Rod is the youngest guy ever to hit 500 and Griffey is nearly the end of what has become an injury plagued career.

[Taxman]

Well, that is one of the stupidest moves any teams fan base is known for. What are the chances of actually catching a HR ball? Then you throw it back for what? The adulation of a few drunk assholes that sit nest to you for a couple of innings?Most of them are complete frauds these days anyway. There was an article in one of the fishwraps around the time that Bonds was in Chicago, and these people are bringing balls with them to the games to throw out just in case a home run comes their way.

[Jef UK]

It is random so you can't prepare for it...it you tell them they are going to get checked 3 times a year...they players might be able to figure out when they are going to get tested.

You could check a team 3 times a year, and also have said checks be adequately random.

[Deej]

You could check a team 3 times a year, and also have said checks be adequately random.

I don't think the MLB really wants to catch all that many people. It's bad for the sport if too many players are caught.

[cweed4]

I love how people hate him becasue they THINK he used 'roids...innocent until proven guilty I say.
Grand jury testimony. He ADMITTED to using the stuff.

[adamgreenberger]

Grand jury testimony. He ADMITTED to using the stuff.

That was leaked info, and might not be accurate...and until he ACUTALLY fails a test...he is innocent.

[DaveCummings]

That's insanity. A-Rod is the youngest guy ever to hit 500 and Griffey is nearly the end of what has become an injury plagued career.


That may be true, but A-Rod is at that age where alot of the injuries that plague players seem to occur.

I may be a little optimistic about Junior. I think he'll get close to 700 before he retires, if not passing it.

[DAVE]

That may be true, but A-Rod is at that age where alot of the injuries that plague players seem to occur.

I may be a little optimistic about Junior. I think he'll get close to 700 before he retires, if not passing it.

You're talking crazy talk.

[Jef UK]

I don't think the MLB really wants to catch all that many people. It's bad for the sport if too many players are caught.

Then they shoud just let players roid up.

The all drug Olympics!

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/88/pics/88aupdate3.jpg

[cweed4]

That was leaked info, and might not be accurate...and until he ACUTALLY fails a test...he is innocent.
The lawyer that leaked it is spending 30 months in the pokey. It IS accurate. He gave the reporters the actual transcripts.

[Taxman]

You're talking crazy talk. :crazy:

[Taxman]

That was leaked info, and might not be accurate...and until he ACUTALLY fails a test...he is innocent.None of this spin really matters at all in the end. If Bonds really did everything that is claimed in Game of Shadows he is very apt to live a short miserable life. He can't really get away with it in the end. He will pay the price and the real losers will be his children.

[badpoet]

It's really sad to say but steroid use or not, he's still the best player of this generation.

[DAVE]

It's really sad to say but steroid use or not, he's still the best player of this generation.

huh?
Without steroid use he was one of the best players of his generation (he was always being overshadowed by Junior in the early 90's).
With steroids, he's probably the best position player of any generation, ever.

[ERNIE_E]

Most of them are complete frauds these days anyway. There was an article in one of the fishwraps around the time that Bonds was in Chicago, and these people are bringing balls with them to the games to throw out just in case a home run comes their way.

You know I listened to his press conference and Bonds was asked if he'd try to retrieve the ball from the fan who got it and he said something to the effect of, "No, I don't think any homerun ball should be a player's property. Homeruns are for the fans who catch them." I'm paraphrasing here. I thought it was pretty cool, actually.

[adamgreenberger]

The lawyer that leaked it is spending 30 months in the pokey. It IS accurate. He gave the reporters the actual transcripts.

Either way...when he fails a drug test, then I will villify the man...until then he is innocent in my eyes.

[KingMob]

It's really sad to say but steroid use or not, he's still the best player of this generation.

hardly

[badpoet]

hardly

When he was in his prime, he was the best player in this generation. There are a few pitchers and a couple of players you could make an argument for but having seen all those guys play, Bonds was still the best. His one weakness was post season production.

I don't like the guy at all, but he is a great player. Probably one of the greatest of all time. And the worst part is that he still would've been even without the steroids.

[DAVE]

When he was in his prime, he was the best player in this generation. There are a few pitchers and a couple of players you could make an argument for but having seen all those guys play, Bonds was still the best. His one weakness was post season production. I don't like the guy at all, but he is a great player. Probably one of the greatest of all time. And the worst part is that he still would've been even without the steroids.

That's not even his weakness either. He was unprotected in the order.

He wouldn't be near the greatest of all time without the roids though.

[badpoet]

That's not even his weakness either. He was unprotected in the order.

He wouldn't be near the greatest of all time without the roids though.

I completely disagree. He wouldn't have been nearly this healthy without the roids, I'll give you that.

[thecheat1]

That's the thing that bugs me about all of this. He obviously had the ability and skill to be a great player but, he had to go the easy way and take steriods or HGH or whatever.

He's still an obviously talented guy but, he doesn't deserved to be remembered for the home run record. The cheated and lied and, even if other guys do it, that doesn't make it right.

I have a friend who used to be a professional ball player in the 70's and, sadly, from what he told me, drugs have always been part of the game. It was not abnormal for guys to play a night game, get totally hammered afterwards, then take a bunch of amphetamines the next morning so you could play.

[cweed4]

Either way...when he fails a drug test, then I will villify the man...until then he is innocent in my eyes.
I'm not going to villify him either. Just pointing out the FACT that he used steroids in the past. It's also a FACT that baseball didn't have a policy against performance enhancing drugs in place prior to 2004. So he is not a cheater and all his records are legit, despite the steroid use.

[HomerGator]

Congratulations, cheater!

[Smokinblues]

I'm not going to villify him either. Just pointing out the FACT that he used steroids in the past. It's also a FACT that baseball didn't have a policy against performance enhancing drugs in place prior to 2004. So he is not a cheater and all his records are legit, despite the steroid use.
no actually, it's not a fact. steroids were on the banned substances list. they just weren't doing any testing, because they couldn't do any testing, because the players union basically runs the league.

[Shane W]

no actually, it's not a fact. steroids were on the banned substances list. they just weren't doing any testing, because they couldn't do any testing, because the players union basically runs the league.

Yep. The only "facts" we know are anecdotal to steroid use. Would I be silly to say he's clean? Absolutely, but at the same time, I don't know enough to go under oath to claim that he's definitely used.

[LeggoMyEggolas]

You know I listened to his press conference and Bonds was asked if he'd try to retrieve the ball from the fan who got it and he said something to the effect of, "No, I don't think any homerun ball should be a player's property. Homeruns are for the fans who catch them." I'm paraphrasing here. I thought it was pretty cool, actually.
And interesting that the guy's tune changes after YEARS of just being an outright DICK. See "Love Me, Hate Me" for just a few examples.

[Brewtown Andy]

Liar.
wow...that would be one of the dumbest moves of your life!I came to this decision in '98 regarding McGwire, and really, hasn't Todd McFarlane been ripped off enough?

[Brewtown Andy]

Most of them are complete frauds these days anyway. There was an article in one of the fishwraps around the time that Bonds was in Chicago, and these people are bringing balls with them to the games to throw out just in case a home run comes their way.Which goes to show you that they're stupider than rocks since they're using specially marked balls for his at bats.

[Buk Was Right]

Which goes to show you that they're stupider than rocks since they're using specially marked balls for his at bats.

I think the point is that they would get the "cred" of throwing the ball back, but still get to keep (or more likely sell) the actual homer ball.

But, yeah... That's lame.

[Brewtown Andy]

I think the point is that they would get the "cred" of throwing the ball back, but still get to keep the actual homer ball.

But, yeah... That's lame.And like that'd be believeable? "Hey, look, Bonds' 755th HR ball!" "Dude, we have you on videotape throwing that back."

[Buk Was Right]

And like that'd be believeable? "Hey, look, Bonds' 755th HR ball!" "Dude, we have you on videotape throwing that back."

But it's specially marked... specially!

[KingMob]

I've got a couple of specially marked balls in my pants.

[Shane W]

I came to this decision in '98 regarding McGwire, and really, hasn't Todd McFarlane been ripped off enough?

I just think when push comes to shove, and you've had a lottery ticket jammed into your hands, you're not going to just throw it back.

[Buk Was Right]

I've got a couple of specially marked balls in my pants.

The Todd?

HI FIVE!

[Shane W]

I've got a couple of specially marked balls in my pants.


Marked as Best if used before 1/01/92

[KingMob]

The Todd?

HI FIVE!

the todd actually called me "bud" 17 times in about 4 seconds once. Oh the memories.

[Akira]

I just think when push comes to shove, and you've had a lottery ticket jammed into your hands, you're not going to just throw it back.

Exactly

[Brewtown Andy]

I just think when push comes to shove, and you've had a lottery ticket jammed into your hands, you're not going to just throw it back.You don't understand, man, tradition is all we have. IT'S ALL WE HAVE. :-?

[Buk Was Right]

You don't understand, man, tradition is all we have. IT'S ALL WE HAVE. :-?

You have next year too! Don't forget about next year!

[Brewtown Andy]

You have next year too! Don't forget about next year!+99 rep points.

[Shane W]

You don't understand, man, tradition is all we have. IT'S ALL WE HAVE. :-?

Then break that tradition, become a winner and sell the ball instead!

[Brewtown Andy]

Then break that tradition, become a winner and sell the ball instead!I'd also have to sit in the bleachers, and really, it's not cost effective these days.

[Doug]

I don't know if this was mentioned yet (I didn't read the whole thread), but the guy who caught the ball is a Mets fan from Queens. He had a flight that day, but it got postponed so on a whim he bought a ticket to the game and ended up with Bonds' ball.

As for what I would do:
If I caught A-Rod's 500th HR ball, I'd give it him, but hold out for an autographed bat or something.

If I caught Bonds' ball, I would sell it like a sonofabitch.

[Brewtown Andy]

As for what I would do:
If I caught A-Rod's 500th HR ball, I'd give it him, but hold out for an autographed bat or something.And then hit him with it.

[Shane W]

If I caught A-Rod's 500th HR ball, I'd give it him, but hold out for an autographed bat or something.


I don't understand this line of reasoning at all.

[Doug]

I don't understand this line of reasoning at all.

I've heard of people catching historic homeruns at Yankee stadium being offered autographed bats by the hitter in exchange for the ball for their collection.

I would like an autographed bat by A-Rod. I'd mount it and hang it in my son's room because A-Rod is his favorite player.

[Bill!]

I don't understand this line of reasoning at all.

Whats not to understand?

[changingshades]

I've got a couple of specially marked balls in my pants.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/4/41/180px-Black_vulcan_birdman.jpg

IN MY PANTS.

[KingMob]

I've heard of people catching historic homeruns at Yankee stadium being offered autographed bats by the hitter in exchange for the ball for their collection.

I would like an autographed bat by A-Rod. I'd mount it and hang it in my son's room because A-Rod is his favorite player.

I think its pretty much common practice with those types of situations. They offer jerseys sometimes too.

[Shane W]

Whats not to understand?
Why people would completely undervalue their property like that. There will be many opportunities to have A-Rod sign a bat, but not too many to cash in and send your kid to college with no worries.

[KingMob]

Why people would completely undervalue their property like that. There will be many opportunities to have A-Rod sign a bat, but not too many to cash in and send your kid to college with no worries.

You would actually keep a historical ball to that player knowing the player wanted to keep it for himself and is gracious enough to exchange it for something else just as cool?

[Shane W]

You would actually keep a historical ball to that player knowing the player wanted to keep it for himself and is gracious enough to exchange it for something else just as cool?

No, I would sell that ball (and it really does depend on the price) A-Rods 500th may not bring in as much. I could then get something later just as cool with that cash.

Although the kid that caught Griffey's 500th here got the serious hook-up from Jr. Though I don't think too many are as classy as he is.

[cweed4]

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x44/cweed4/756.jpg


:torch: Get 'em while their hot!:torch: