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BrianS
07-03-2007, 05:28 AM
I love the comments Thompson and Giuliani had...

Libby commutation: Washington responds (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/07/02/libby-commutation-washington-responds/#more-682)

Following are reactions to President Bush’s announcement Monday that he has commuted the sentence of former vice presidential chief of staff Lewis “Scooter” Libby:


Melanie Sloan, legal counsel to Joe and Valerie Wilson
“First, President Bush said any person who leaked would no longer work in his administration. Nonetheless, Scooter Libby didn’t leave office until he was indicted and Karl Rove works in the White House even today. More recently, the vice president ignored an executive order protecting classified information, claiming he isn’t really part of the executive branch. Clearly, this is an administration that believes leaking classified information for political ends is justified and that the law is what applies to other people.”

Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, and presidential candidate
“This decision to commute the sentence of a man who compromised our national security cements the legacy of an Administration characterized by a politics of cynicism and division, one that has consistently placed itself and its ideology above the law. This is exactly the kind of politics we must change so we can begin restoring the American people’s faith in a government that puts the country’s progress ahead of the bitter partisanship of recent years.”

Sen. Charles Schumer, D-New York
“As Independence Day nears, we are reminded that one of the principles our forefathers fought for was equal justice under the law. This commutation completely tramples on that principle.”

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada
“The President’s decision to commute Mr. Libby’s sentence is disgraceful. Libby’s conviction was the one faint glimmer of accountability for White House efforts to manipulate intelligence and silence critics of the Iraq War. Now, even that small bit of justice has been undone. Judge Walton correctly determined that Libby deserved to be imprisoned for lying about a matter ofnational security. The Constitution gives President Bush the power to commute sentences, but history will judge him harshly for using that power to benefit his own Vice President’s Chief of Staff who was convicted of such a serious violation of law.”

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-California
“The President’s commutation of Scooter Libby’s prison sentence does not serve justice, condones criminal conduct, and is a betrayal of trust of the American people. The President said he would hold accountable anyone involved in the Valerie Plame leak case. By his action today, the President shows his word is not to be believed. He has abandoned all sense of fairness when it comes to justice, he has failed to uphold the rule of law, and he has failed to hold his Administration accountable.”

Sen. Joe Biden, D-Delaware, presidential candidate
“Last week Vice President Cheney asserted that he was beyond the reach of the law. Today, President Bush demonstrated the lengths he would go to, ensuring that even aides to Dick Cheney are beyond the judgment of the law. It is time for the American people to be heard — I call for all Americans to flood the White House with phone calls tomorrow expressing their outrage over this blatant disregard for the rule of law.”

Former Sen. John Edwards, presidential candidate
“Only a president clinically incapable of understanding that mistakes have consequences could take the action he did today. President Bush has just sent exactly the wrong signal to the country and the world. In George Bush’s America, it is apparently okay to misuse intelligence for political gain, mislead prosecutors and lie to the FBI. George Bush and his cronies think they are above the law and the rest of us live with the consequences. The cause of equal justice in America took a serious blow today.”

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, presidential candidate
“It’s a sad day when the President commutes the sentence of a public official who deliberately and blatantly betrayed the public trust and obstructed an important federal investigation,” said Governor Richardson. “This administration clearly believes its officials are above the law, from ignoring FISA laws when eavesdropping on US citizens, to the abuse of classified material, to ignoring the Geneva Conventions and international law with secret prisons and torturing prisoners.

There is a reason we have laws and why we expect our Presidents to obey them. Institutions have a collective wisdom greater than that of any one individual. The arrogance of this administration’s disdain for the law and its belief it operates with impunity are breathtaking.

Will the President also commute the sentences of others who obstructed justice and lied to grand juries, or only those who act to protect President Bush and Vice President Cheney?”

Former GOP Sen. Fred Thompson, likely presidential candidate
I am very happy for Scooter Libby. I know that this is a great relief to him, his wife and children. While for a long time I have urged a pardon for Scooter, I respect the President’s decision. This will allow a good American, who has done a lot for his country, to resume his life.

Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-New York, presidential candidate
“Today’s decision is yet another example that this Administration simply considers itself above the law. This case arose from the Administration’s politicization of national security intelligence and its efforts to punish those who spoke out against its policies. Four years into the Iraq war, Americans are still living with the consequences of this White House’s efforts to quell dissent. This commutation sends the clear signal that in this Administration, cronyism and ideology trump competence and justice.”

Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, presidential candidate
“After evaluating the facts, the President came to a reasonable decision and I believe the decision was correct.”

Ben
07-03-2007, 06:08 AM
Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, presidential candidate
“After evaluating the facts, the President came to a reasonable decision and I believe the decision was correct.”Haha

JoeE
07-03-2007, 06:10 AM
Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-New York, presidential candidate
“Today’s decision is yet another example that this Administration simply considers itself above the law. This case arose from the Administration’s politicization of national security intelligence and its efforts to punish those who spoke out against its policies. Four years into the Iraq war, Americans are still living with the consequences of this White House’s efforts to quell dissent. This commutation sends the clear signal that in this Administration, cronyism and ideology trump competence and justice.”

Glass houses, Hildog.

Tyeron
07-03-2007, 06:11 AM
Jeezus Guiliani.. well atleast he was kind of funny on SNL

DAVE
07-03-2007, 06:12 AM
I totally agree with all the statements (well except for Guliani's), but if I was Hilary Clinton, I wouldn't exactly be commenting on this subject considering Bill's pardon.

DAVE
07-03-2007, 06:12 AM
Glass houses, Hildog.

This might be the first time we've agreed on something in a political thread.

Patton
07-03-2007, 06:15 AM
This might be the first time we've agreed on something in a political thread.

Clearly one's worse than the other though, right? I don't know a ton about Whitewater, but it didn't jeapordize lives or national security for political agenda, right? Just some money laundering stuff?

Again, I could be way off.

Bill?
07-03-2007, 06:18 AM
Glass houses, Hildog.

yeah she's got to be in a tough spot though. on one hand, it'd probably be better for her if she could just not say anything about this. but i guess she has too. putting aside the issue of bill clinton's impeachment( sorry but blowjobs do not equal treason) she has to know people are going to toss marc rich back in her face.

NewChad
07-03-2007, 06:20 AM
The current administration is a joke and has bent and broken laws where-ever it sees fit.

Thankfully they are not the 'be all and end all' of the Republican party.

Thank god you guys have 2 term rule.

Patton
07-03-2007, 06:21 AM
The current administration is a joke and has bent and broken laws where-ever it sees fit.

Thankfully they are not the 'be all and end all' of the Republican party.

Thank god you guys have 2 term rule.

The Old Chad never would have said this.

RickLM
07-03-2007, 06:21 AM
yeah she's got to be in a tough spot though. on one hand, it'd probably be better for her if she could just not say anything about this. but i guess she has too. putting aside the issue of bill clinton's impeachment( sorry but blowjobs do not equal treason) she has to know people are going to toss marc rich back in her face.


She's not astute enough to come up with something sensible, so she just plowed forward with her outrage.

Ben
07-03-2007, 06:22 AM
The Old Chad never would have said this.Old chads helped Bush take the 2000 election.

BrianS
07-03-2007, 06:24 AM
I totally agree with all the statements (well except for Guliani's), but if I was Hilary Clinton, I wouldn't exactly be commenting on this subject considering Bill's pardon.


Agree or disagree, do you think Mr. Bush's reasons will be as well thought out?

My Reasons for the Pardons (http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/18/opinion/18CLIN.html?pagewanted=all&ei=5070&en=66ba82eaf117b24b&ex=1183521600)
By WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON

NewChad
07-03-2007, 06:25 AM
Old chads helped Bush take the 2000 election.

Yeah sorry about that - that's what happens when we just 'hang' around.

DAVE
07-03-2007, 06:25 AM
Agree or disagree, do you think Mr. Bush's reasons will be as well thought out?

My Reasons for the Pardons (http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/18/opinion/18CLIN.html?pagewanted=all&ei=5070&en=66ba82eaf117b24b&ex=1183521600)
By WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON

No.

Reazons For My Commutingtation
By The President(!) George W. Bush
Reazon 1: I decided it.
Reazon 2: I'm the Decider.
Reaazon 3: Also, Aquaman.

JoeE
07-03-2007, 06:34 AM
This is a bit of a weird coincidence, but none other than Scooter Libby was Marc Rich's attorney for fifteen years.

BrianS
07-03-2007, 07:14 AM
She's not astute enough to come up with something sensible, so she just plowed forward with her outrage.

I thought Hillary was pretty on the mark with her comments. You don't think Bush has put his personal interests above the countries best interests?

TheTravis!
07-03-2007, 07:16 AM
I thought Hillary was pretty on the mark with her comments. You don't think Bush has put his personal interests above the countries best interests?

Who cares? We should hate Hillary because she's a GIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRLLLL!!!! And also, her husband got blow jobs!

GelfXIII
07-03-2007, 07:19 AM
Glass houses, Hildog.

Please.

DAVE
07-03-2007, 07:21 AM
Please.

I love Bill Clinton, but the Marc Rich pardon is relevent to this conversation. It'd be the cliche of partisen blinders to not think Hillary's at least a tad hipocritical to blast Bush over a similer action.

Dr. Omega
07-03-2007, 07:22 AM
I want to hear Ron Paul's reaction..


Dr. Ω

modungo
07-03-2007, 07:24 AM
I'm almost impressed by this. We knew he was gonna do it. We knew it from the second it all started. If Scooter got convicted he would get pardoned. I figured it would be a last day pardon.The fact that he didn't wait till after the elections is almost admirable. Or at least as amirable as you can be when you're doing something really, really shitty.

GelfXIII
07-03-2007, 07:26 AM
I love Bill Clinton, but the Marc Rich pardon is relevent to this conversation. It'd be the cliche of partisen blinders to not think Hillary's at least a tad hipocritical to blast Bush over a similer action.

Apples and oranges. The two pardons (ahem ... a pardon and a "commutation") are of completely different calibers of activity. Marc Rich, while a heavy contributor, never held high public office, never had access to or compromised any state secrets, and didn't obfuscate in front of a grand jury. Yes, Tax evasion and Illegal trading are serious, but in the same class as Libby? I don't think so.

BrianS
07-03-2007, 07:26 AM
I love Bill Clinton, but the Marc Rich pardon is relevent to this conversation. It'd be the cliche of partisen blinders to not think Hillary's at least a tad hipocritical to blast Bush over a similer action.

Besides the word "pardon" I don't see a connection. Libby was involved with a treasonous act which could have led to a national security breach. Bush insisted that whomever did it would be fired, and instead he's treating him like a hero, which I guess he is for taking the fall for the Bush Administration.

Bill?
07-03-2007, 07:28 AM
didn't marc rich make some sneaky oil deals with iran or something though? thats pretty bad.

KarlH
07-03-2007, 07:28 AM
Besides the word "pardon" I don't see a connection. Libby was involved with a treasonous act which could have led to a national security breach. Bush insisted that whomever did it would be fired, and instead he's treating him like a hero, which I guess he is for taking the fall for the Bush Administration.

What about the FALN?

GelfXIII
07-03-2007, 07:29 AM
didn't marc rich make some sneaky oil deals with iran or something though? thats pretty bad.

Illegal trading was the charge. and btw, it was only charged, never proven. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. Libby was PROVEN guilty in a court of law.

Big difference.

JoeE
07-03-2007, 07:31 AM
Besides the word "pardon" I don't see a connection. Libby was involved with a treasonous act which could have led to a national security breach.

As he was never convicted of that, that's not what he was pardoned for.

JoeE
07-03-2007, 07:32 AM
Illegal trading was the charge. and btw, it was only charged, never proven. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. Libby was PROVEN guilty in a court of law.

Of course it was never proven. Marc Rich fled the country to avoid trial. Somehow I doubt that you would be mounting a similar defense of Libby if he had done the same.

BrianS
07-03-2007, 07:34 AM
As he was never convicted of that, that's not what he was pardoned for.

Right...he was charged with covering up the cover up that led the country to war and the deaths of thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

GelfXIII
07-03-2007, 07:34 AM
Of course it was never proven. Marc Rich fled the country to avoid trial. Somehow I doubt that you would be mounting a similar defense of Libby if he had done the same.

Granted, but the difference remains. Rich was indicted and fled prosecution and was pardoned before he could be prosecuted. All of which stinks to high heaven, but STILL isn't nearly in the same class as Libby.

Bill?
07-03-2007, 07:35 AM
Illegal trading was the charge. and btw, it was only charged, never proven. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. Libby was PROVEN guilty in a court of law.

Big difference.

well listen I think what libby did was pretty reprehensible. he was covering up an act of treason. but i'm just saying marc rich was a pretty shady guy too.

JoeE
07-03-2007, 07:35 AM
didn't marc rich make some sneaky oil deals with iran or something though? thats pretty bad.

He traded with them while they were holding U.S. hostages, effectively enabling a country that was openly hostile to the United States and at the time participating in hostilities against the United States. That's way worse than what Scooter Libby did.

GelfXIII
07-03-2007, 07:37 AM
He traded with them while they were holding U.S. hostages, effectively enabling a country that was openly hostile to the United States, and participating in hostilities against the United States. That's way worse than what Scooter Libby did.


Worse? I disagree completely. My phrasing would be "nowhere near as bad"

BrianS
07-03-2007, 07:38 AM
He traded with them while they were holding U.S. hostages, effectively enabling a country that was openly hostile to the United States and at the time participating in hostilities against the United States. That's way worse than what Scooter Libby did.


Its no worse than what Cheney has done for his buddies in Halliburton during the current Iraq war...

I'd say Scooter helping us get into an ongoing war is much worse than taking a profit from a hostile country.

Marcdachamp
07-03-2007, 07:39 AM
What kills me is that the Valerie Plame fiasco is just another example of the slipping journalistic integrity of this nation. Woodward and Bernstein nearly threw their lives under a bus to expose the corruption of the White House. If Plame had happened under another administration, it would be one of the defining historical benchmarks of our generation, rather than the sad footnote it has become.

Bill?
07-03-2007, 07:39 AM
He traded with them while they were holding U.S. hostages, effectively enabling a country that was openly hostile to the United States and at the time participating in hostilities against the United States. That's way worse than what Scooter Libby did.

yeah that might be worse than what libby was actually convicted of. but what libby was lying to cover up was probably worse. it's a little complicated i guess.

JoeE
07-03-2007, 07:41 AM
Its no worse than what Cheney has done for his buddies in Halliburton during the current Iraq war...

Not really. At worst that's a bit of cronyism, not actively cooperating with the enemy.



I'd say Scooter helping us get into an ongoing war is much worse than taking a profit from a hostile country.

OK, neither here nor there.

GelfXIII
07-03-2007, 07:43 AM
well listen I think what libby did was pretty reprehensible. he was covering up an act of treason. but i'm just saying marc rich was a pretty shady guy too.

I agree, but again, I say Apples and Oranges. I feel the whole Marc Rich is a digression from the discussion about Libby, simply because Hillary had a statement about her outrage over the Libby thing.

First, She's not allowed to be outraged? Why is that?

Second, the only thing Marc Rich and Libby have in common (other than that Libby defended Rich from 1995-2000) is that they both received (perhaps) undeserved presidential clemency.

Ray G.
07-03-2007, 07:46 AM
Giuliani would have been better off not taking a strong stand. This is a non-issue in the upcoming election.

GelfXIII
07-03-2007, 07:47 AM
Giuliani would have been better off not taking a strong stand. This is a non-issue in the upcoming election.

So the Republicans all hope.

BrianS
07-03-2007, 07:48 AM
Editorials Hit Libby's Get-Out-of-Jail-Free Card (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003606531)

The bloggers, politicians, and TV pundits weighed in quickly Monday after President Bush took the surprisingly sudden step of commuting Lewis "Scooter" Libby's 30-month prison sentence for perjury and obstruction of justice in the CIA leak case. Now newspaper editorials are appearing, and nearly all of them have condemned the Bush act.

First up, The New York Times and The Washington Post, which had viewed the case quite differently, each ripped the Bush move.

From the Times' Tuesday editorial: "Mr. Bush’s assertion that he respected the verdict but considered the sentence excessive only underscored the way this president is tough on crime when it’s committed by common folk ...

"Within minutes of the Libby announcement, the same Republican commentators who fulminated when Paris Hilton got a few days knocked off her time in a county lockup were parroting Mr. Bush’s contention that a fine, probation and reputation damage were 'harsh punishment' enough for Mr. Libby.

"Presidents have the power to grant clemency and pardons. But in this case, Mr. Bush did not sound like a leader making tough decisions about justice. He sounded like a man worried about what a former loyalist might say when actually staring into a prison cell."

The Post, which had often mocked the court case, declares today: "We agree that a pardon would have been inappropriate and that the prison sentence of 30 months was excessive. But reducing the sentence to no prison time at all, as Mr. Bush did -- to probation and a large fine -- is not defensible. ... Mr. Bush, while claiming to 'respect the jury's verdict,' failed to explain why he moved from 'excessive' to zero.

"It's true that the felony conviction that remains in place, the $250,000 fine and the reputational damage are far from trivial. But so is lying to a grand jury. To commute the entire prison sentence sends the wrong message about the seriousness of that offense."

Seattle Post-Intelligencer: "President Bush's commutation of a pal's prison sentence counts as a most shocking act of disrespect for the U.S. justice system. It's the latest sign of the huge repairs to American concepts of the rule of law that await the next president."

The Denver Post found that "such big-footing of other branches of government is not unprecedented with this administration. The president's abuse of signing statements show his disrespect for Congress' power to make law. His insistence that terror detainees at Guantanamo Bay be denied Habeas Corpus rights mocks legal tradition. It's a shame that his actions in the Libby affair will add to that list. Libby should be held accountable for his crimes."

San Francisco Chronicle: "In commuting the sentence of former White House aide Lewis 'Scooter' Libby, President Bush sent the message that perjury and obstruction of justice in the service of the president of the United States are not serious crimes."

But The Wall Street Journal sees it differently: "By failing to issue a full pardon, Mr. Bush is evading responsibility for the role his administration played in letting the Plame affair build into fiasco and, ultimately, this personal tragedy. ... Mr. Libby deserved better from the President whose policies he tried to defend when others were running for cover. The consequences for the reputation of his Administration will also be long-lasting."

New York Post: "If Bush thinks such parsing will spare him the political backlash an outright pardon would produce, he's wrong. The jackals are tearing at his heels this morning -- and for doing only half the necessary job. Bush knows a pardon is warranted. He should grant it."

The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel's editorial declares that "mostly this commutation fails on the most basic premise. There was no miscarriage of justice in Libby's conviction or his sentence. The trial amply demonstrated that he stonewalled. Like President Clinton's 11th-hour pardons of an ill-deserving few, this commutation is a travesty."

New York's Daily News: "However misbegotten was the probe by special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, the fact is that Libby did commit a federal crime and the fact is also that he was convicted in a court of law. Thankfully, Bush did not pardon Libby outright, but time in the slammer was in order. Sixty days, say, wouldn't have hurt the justice system a bit."

Chicago Tribune believes that "in nixing the prison term, Bush sent a terrible message to citizens and to government officials who are expected to serve the public with integrity. The way for a president to discourage the breaking of federal laws is by letting fairly rendered consequences play out, however uncomfortably for everyone involved. The message to a Scooter Libby ought to be the same as it is for other convicts: You do the crime, you do the time."

The Arizona Republic: "We thought Scooter Libby was going through the criminal justice system. Just like anyone else. Then, President Bush whipped out a get-out-of-jail-free card. This is the wrong game to play on a very public stage."

San Jose Mercury News: "Other presidents have doled out pardons and the like, usually on the way out of office. It's never pretty. But few have placed themselves above the law as Bush, Cheney and friends repeatedly have done by trampling civil liberties and denying due process. Chalk up another point for freedom. Scooter's, at least."

The Sacramento Bee: President Bush, a recent story in the Washington Post tells us, is obsessed with the question of how history will view him. He has done himself no favors on that count by commuting the prison term of I. Lewis 'Scooter' Libby."

The Dallas Morning News: "Perhaps the president felt he had nothing left to lose, given his unpopularity. But considering how much trouble the White House faces in regard to congressional subpoenas, the last thing this president needed was to further antagonize Capitol Hill regarding abuse of executive power."

The Rocky Mountain News, in Denver, in the most bizarre comment, accepts the "compassion" argument and just wishes Bush had waited a little bit so his move could not be wrongly "perceived": "Bush's statement exudes compassion, and it carefully gives credit to those who criticize prison time for Libby as well as to those who defend it. But the president should have restrained his compassion -- and delayed his commutation -- for at least a few more months, lest he be perceived as subverting justice, too."

DAVE
07-03-2007, 07:50 AM
Giuliani would have been better off not taking a strong stand. This is a non-issue in the upcoming election.

Everyone hear that?

It's a non issue now, because Ray says so! Everyone can stop being upset.

BrianS
07-03-2007, 07:51 AM
Giuliani would have been better off not taking a strong stand. This is a non-issue in the upcoming election.

With this pardon, the Republicans are finished.

Ryan F
07-03-2007, 07:51 AM
Giuliani would have been better off not taking a strong stand. This is a non-issue in the upcoming election.

Rudy loves him some Bush Administration. I'm sure he'll go far running as Bush's successor.

Cth
07-03-2007, 07:51 AM
So, was anyone surprised really?

GelfXIII
07-03-2007, 07:55 AM
So, was anyone surprised really?

Surprised? Only by the implementation.
Angered? Hell yeah.

Ray G.
07-03-2007, 07:57 AM
Everyone hear that?

It's a non issue now, because Ray says so! Everyone can stop being upset.

It's a non-issue because the GOP nominee will have nothing to do with the Libby fiasco.

Bill?
07-03-2007, 07:59 AM
So, was anyone surprised really?

this guy-http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/d/dd/Drama_prairie_dog.gif

DAVE
07-03-2007, 07:59 AM
It's a non-issue because the GOP nominee will have nothing to do with the Libby fiasco.

Yeah, but it'll still effect them. Just like how Clinton's sexual indescretion affected all the Democrats in the 2000 race.

Ryan F
07-03-2007, 08:37 AM
Apparently Tony Snow said this morning that a pardon for Libby is still on the table.

Ray G.
07-03-2007, 10:17 AM
Yeah, but it'll still effect them. Just like how Clinton's sexual indescretion affected all the Democrats in the 2000 race.

It will, but let's face it: there's a lot more important issues on the table now than there were in 2000. 2008 will be a very different election than 2000, and will hinge more on key issues like terrorism, Iraq, and illegal immigration. I can't see too many people getting too hung up on a sort-of-pardon from last year.

GelfXIII
07-03-2007, 10:23 AM
It will, but let's face it: there's a lot more important issues on the table now than there were in 2000. 2008 will be a very different election than 2000, and will hinge more on key issues like terrorism, Iraq, and illegal immigration. I can't see too many people getting too hung up on a sort-of-pardon from last year.

I think it ties very heavily into the perceived lack of respect that this administration (and by association, the republican party. Sorry Ray, but it's not an uncommon association) has for the concept of rule of Law. It paints the picture of Republicans as the party of the rich and powerful, of the party of special privilege. It may not effect to primaries, but I think you can be sure it'll effect the general election.

Ethan Van Sciver
07-03-2007, 10:27 AM
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!

bradical
07-03-2007, 10:28 AM
Glass houses, Hildog.

hildog never pardoned anyone. her half of the house is all stone and motar.

Ethan Van Sciver
07-03-2007, 10:29 AM
hildog never pardoned anyone. her half of the house is all stone and motar.

Hillary is clean as a whistle.

Ben
07-03-2007, 10:29 AM
Hillary is clean as a whistle.Is she sharp as a thistle?

bradical
07-03-2007, 10:30 AM
Hillary is clean as a whistle.

a rusty, rusty whistle that never pardoned anyone.

GelfXIII
07-03-2007, 10:30 AM
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!


Laugh, Clown, Laugh.

The crowd sees me out dancing
Carefree and romancing
Happy with my someone new
I’m laughing on the outside
Crying on the inside
’cause I’m still in love with W

Matt Jay
07-03-2007, 10:36 AM
Laugh, Clown, Laugh.

The crowd sees me out dancing
Carefree and romancing
Happy with my someone new
I’m laughing on the outside
Crying on the inside
’cause I’m still in love with W

:lol:

Ryan F
07-03-2007, 10:39 AM
It will, but let's face it: there's a lot more important issues on the table now than there were in 2000. 2008 will be a very different election than 2000, and will hinge more on key issues like terrorism, Iraq, and illegal immigration. I can't see too many people getting too hung up on a sort-of-pardon from last year.

Pardoning Libby is closely connected to the Iraq War, which you rightly point out will be among the top two issues. Smearing people who disagree with their dubious intelligence by outting important CIA operatives does not make the decision to go to war or the Administrations credentials on intelligence and defense look any better.

I also agree with gelf that the partisanship and corruption of this administration will be a central issue, especially with the Republican frontrunners Giuliani and Thompson making no effort to distance themselves from this administration or this decision.

Ethan Van Sciver
07-03-2007, 10:56 AM
Pardoning Libby is closely connected to the Iraq War, which you rightly point out will be among the top two issues. Smearing people who disagree with their dubious intelligence by outting important CIA operatives does not make the decision to go to war or the Administrations credentials on intelligence and defense look any better.

I also agree with gelf that the partisanship and corruption of this administration will be a central issue, especially with the Republican frontrunners Giuliani and Thompson making no effort to distance themselves from this administration or this decision.

We're ashamed of the President for not letting us trump up charges against his staff in order to eventually impeach him.

King of Mars
07-03-2007, 11:00 AM
We're ashamed of the President for not letting us trump up charges against his staff in order to eventually impeach him.Hahahaha!

I love watching conservatives try to talk their way around the glaringly obvious injustices perpetrated by this administration. It's kinda like watching monkeys try to hammer square pegs into round holes.

Matt Jay
07-03-2007, 11:01 AM
We're ashamed of the President for not letting us trump up charges against his staff in order to eventually impeach him.

His "staff"?

http://weblog.infoworld.com/zeroday/archives/images/Bill_Clinton.jpg

Ethan Van Sciver
07-03-2007, 11:03 AM
Hahahaha!

I love watching conservatives try to talk their way around the glaringly obvious injustices perpetrated by this administration. It's kinda like watching monkeys try to hammer square pegs into round holes.

Eeew...monkeys drive square pegs into your round hole? You are a liberal.

BrianS
07-03-2007, 02:59 PM
We're ashamed of the President for not letting us trump up charges against his staff in order to eventually impeach him.

Trump up? Link?

Thommy Melanson
07-03-2007, 03:04 PM
http://wallstreetjackass.typepad.com/raptureready/images/bush_above_the__law1_1.jpg

Thommy Melanson
07-03-2007, 03:07 PM
http://images.ucomics.com/comics/csnav/2006/csnav060109.jpg

Fusion
07-03-2007, 03:09 PM
Glass houses, Hildog.

Too fucking true. :)

Fusion
07-03-2007, 03:14 PM
It's a non-issue because the GOP nominee will have nothing to do with the Libby fiasco.

None of the GOP members had a problem with Libby being pardoned when asked in the last debate. Therefore it IS an issue. Gives the message that corruption is okay as long as they are playing for your team.