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Charlie_1981
06-20-2007, 09:52 AM
Well, Iīm new and this is my first thread in the boards.

For a long time, she has been a character of no writer has done anything until Walter Simonson decided to recover her and practically nobody try to take advantage to the maximum of her power and personality, for what practically she had turned into a useless character limiting her appearances in Thor's book doing that a few persons knew better the character.

Sincerely I like this character but I am getting tired of speaking about this character in several boards, I like her, it is evident and I like to speak about her, but really it serves to try something to give her to know when probably she will never return and will turn into a character whom almost nobody will remember, a character who will remain forgotten that nobody would care if she was returning or not until some writer decides to use her and makes something serious.

Jim T.
06-20-2007, 09:53 AM
Hi and welcome. I think I read somewhere she's going to be in the new JMS Thor book...

ClintP
06-20-2007, 09:54 AM
Never heard of that character. And welcome to the board.

MIKE D
06-20-2007, 09:54 AM
Welcome. And to be fair, she was an Asgardian. All the Asgardians are dead. There really wasn't much anyone could do with her without at least checking that it wouldn't in some way mess up Marvel's plans for Thor's return.

DAVE
06-20-2007, 09:56 AM
No, I wouldn't care.

nihilance
06-20-2007, 09:57 AM
Well, Iīm new and this is my first thread in the boards.

For a long time, she has been a character of no writer has done anything until Walter Simonson decided to recover her and practically nobody try to take advantage to the maximum of her power and personality, for what practically she had turned into a useless character limiting her appearances in Thor's book doing that a few persons knew better the character.

Sincerely I like this character but I am getting tired of speaking about this character in several boards, I like her, it is evident and I like to speak about her, but really it serves to try something to give her to know when probably she will never return and will turn into a character whom almost nobody will remember, a character who will remain forgotten that nobody would care if she was returning or not until some writer decides to use her and makes something serious.

First off welcome to the board.

Secondly, your post was very hard to understand but the gist I got was that you really like Enchantress but you are frustrated that only Simonson really wrote her well and no one else really utilizes her except maybe in a Thor comic.

http://www.immortalthor.net/castingcall-enchantress.jpg

I agree that she is a great character and I wouldn't mind at all seeing her come back (especially since apparently all the Asgardians will return soon when Thor's new book debuts.

Also, my favorite Enchantress story is probably her appearance in the two part story where the New Mutants go to Asgard and the X-men go to retrieve them. Nowhere have I seen her quite so diabolical or enticing...(thanks largely to Chris Claremont's writing and Art Adams pencils). I suggest you seek out this story...it's reprinted in an X-men Visionaries trade for Art Adams.

SteveZegers
06-20-2007, 09:58 AM
I always liked her as a character. Not a straight out bad guy, but more of an interesting supporting character. She should return.

Vonn Hennigar
06-20-2007, 10:00 AM
Last time i remember seeing her was as part of the Masters Of Evil in Heroes Reborn.

She needs to come back certainly.

She is in the Marvel Zombies vs Army Of Darkness Mini-Series though, last seen trying to chew Ash's head off.

Akira
06-20-2007, 10:00 AM
I'm not a Thor fan, so outside of Secrt Wars, and her recent appearances in Ultimate Alliance and Marvel Zombies vs Army of Darkness, I don't really care about the character too much. If someone has a good idea for her, sure, bring her back. But if she's just goint to be used for a little while and then have nothing else done with her just leave her be.

P.S. did she die during Raganarok too?

Jef UK
06-20-2007, 10:03 AM
I would not care.

What are everybody's opinions on carrots? They're okay, right?

Gregory
06-20-2007, 10:05 AM
I certainly think Marvel needs a new major-league female villain, instead of shaking up the MU with another confused mutant redhead with cosmic-level powers.

Matt Jay
06-20-2007, 10:06 AM
I wish all the Norse gods would stay gone. Or at least give us MU Jesus, so that it's fair and balanced. Marvel is awash in sin and paganism!!!

Akira
06-20-2007, 10:10 AM
I certainly think Marvel needs a new major-league female villain, instead of shaking up the MU with another confused mutant redhead with cosmic-level powers.

Ultronsexual doesn't count? :(

Gregory
06-20-2007, 10:14 AM
Ultronsexual doesn't count? :(

Small potatoes, so far.

Whip
06-20-2007, 10:23 AM
Well, Iīm new and this is my first thread in the boards.

For a long time, she has been a character of no writer has done anything until Walter Simonson decided to recover her and practically nobody try to take advantage to the maximum of her power and personality, for what practically she had turned into a useless character limiting her appearances in Thor's book doing that a few persons knew better the character.

Sincerely I like this character but I am getting tired of speaking about this character in several boards, I like her, it is evident and I like to speak about her, but really it serves to try something to give her to know when probably she will never return and will turn into a character whom almost nobody will remember, a character who will remain forgotten that nobody would care if she was returning or not until some writer decides to use her and makes something serious.



Welcome to the board. :)

Enchantress. Wow. I haven't read anything with her in a long time. I was really surprised when they included her as a boss fight in Ultimate Alliance.

I honestly wouldn't care if they wrote her off or brought her back. But like with any character, hero OR villain, she could be very interesting and entertaining if in the hands of a good writer. If she were to come back and was as if she'd always been, then no.

charlie
06-20-2007, 11:44 AM
Welcome, person who has the same name as me! :beer:

I am all for Marvel releasing a Charles Vess-style story touching on different Asgardian characters not being used currently. But I think that JMS is going to have enough stories post-Civil War that he will need to bring in the other Asgardians for a while...

TheTravis!
06-20-2007, 11:51 AM
Welcome to the board, bubba.

I dig the Enchantress. She's a fun baddie, and I would love to see her again. Hopefully in the New Thor book. Or maybe in Mighty Avengers.

chazbot
06-20-2007, 11:54 AM
If she fought Tigra in a comic, I'd buy it.
:D

Cth
06-20-2007, 11:54 AM
Ultronsexual doesn't count? :(

Ultranny.

Master Jack Rabbitt
06-20-2007, 11:56 AM
Welcome.

I wouldn't mind seeing her return. She was an interesting enough character.

TheTravis!
06-20-2007, 11:58 AM
If she fought Tigra in a comic, I'd whack off to it.
:D

Fixed. No need to thank me. :)

chazbot
06-20-2007, 12:00 PM
Fixed. No need to thank me. :)

So, you're gonna buy two issues of the upcoming Ms. Marvel as well???

nick maynard
06-20-2007, 12:53 PM
she was awesome in jurgens thor run.

Charlie_1981
06-21-2007, 07:32 AM
Really, Sheīs the best over another characters. I donīt know why, but I Liked her much more than characters like Emma Frost, Scarlet Witch or Ms. Marvel. The problem is that the writers write her always of the same way, that is when I say that the writers should give her respect and justice, explaining things about her past..., she is very intelligent and is not weak (she could kill any of the Mighty or New Avengers without efforts, Sentry included that she could transform in a little puppet), besides the writers have not done anything to update the character, except in the fact of making her more human (more human in the term of smoothing her personality), She is the most powerful goddess of the Marvel Universe and I believe that it is something that it should not forget.

TheTravis!
06-21-2007, 07:34 AM
Really, Sheīs the best over another characters. I donīt know why, but I Liked her much more than characters like Emma Frost, Scarlet Witch or Ms. Marvel. The problem is that the writers write her always of the same way, that is when I say that the writers should give her respect and justice, explaining things about her past..., she is very intelligent and is not weak (she could kill any of the Mighty or New Avengers without efforts, Sentry included that she could transform in a little puppet), besides the writers have not done anything to update the character, except in the fact of making her more human (more human in the term of smoothing her personality), She is the most powerful goddess of the Marvel Universe and I believe that it is something that it should not forget.

Dude, where the fuck are you from?

nihilance
06-21-2007, 07:34 AM
Really, Sheīs the best over another characters. I donīt know why, but I Liked her much more than characters like Emma Frost, Scarlet Witch or Ms. Marvel. The problem is that the writers write her always of the same way, that is when I say that the writers should give her respect and justice, explaining things about her past..., she is very intelligent and is not weak (she could kill any of the Mighty or New Avengers without efforts, Sentry included that she could transform in a little puppet), besides the writers have not done anything to update the character, except in the fact of making her more human (more human in the term of smoothing her personality), She is the most powerful goddess of the Marvel Universe and I believe that it is something that it should not forget.

I don't know about all that.

Being able to beat any of the Mighty or New Avengers?

The most powerful goddess in the Marvel Universe?

Maybe with a retcon, but really I think you might be a little off base here.

Charlie_1981
06-21-2007, 07:42 AM
I don't know about all that.

Being able to beat any of the Mighty or New Avengers?

The most powerful goddess in the Marvel Universe?

Maybe with a retcon, but really I think you might be a little off base here.


Well, your are right, maybe Iīm a little off base. The most powerful woman, yes, at least one of the most powerful women of the whole Marvel Universe. To be able of defeating any of The Mighty Avengers, to a big part of they, yes, Sentry would be the only one with whom she might have some problems but the problems of Sentry are already known and could be a thing that she can take advantage. The New Avengers, the only worthy rival of her would be the Doctor Strange.

Cardinal Braxiatel
06-21-2007, 07:44 AM
I don't know about all that.

Being able to beat any of the Mighty or New Avengers?

The most powerful goddess in the Marvel Universe?

Maybe with a retcon, but really I think you might be a little off base here.

He may have a point. What goddess beats her? Sif? Meh. Venus? Hardly.

Oh but if you meant the bit about being able to stomp Mighty New Avengers? Okay, yeah. That part's bullshit. She's a magic dabbler, a hedge wizard, compared to Doctor Strange and she might be able to physically trounce everyone but Luke on the New Team, Wasp and Widow are the only Mighty Members she has a chance in a brawl with. but it would be a fun brawl

TheTravis!
06-21-2007, 07:56 AM
I kind of love this thread.

Gregory
06-21-2007, 07:58 AM
I kind of love this thread.

You're enchanted.

Jef UK
06-21-2007, 07:59 AM
Really, Sheīs the best over another characters. I donīt know why, but I Liked her much more than characters like Emma Frost, Scarlet Witch or Ms. Marvel. The problem is that the writers write her always of the same way, that is when I say that the writers should give her respect and justice, explaining things about her past..., she is very intelligent and is not weak (she could kill any of the Mighty or New Avengers without efforts, Sentry included that she could transform in a little puppet), besides the writers have not done anything to update the character, except in the fact of making her more human (more human in the term of smoothing her personality), She is the most powerful goddess of the Marvel Universe and I believe that it is something that it should not forget.

I guess I don't understand why you love her so much, if writers have always depicted her the same way, without respect or justice, and without doing anything to update her personality. She doesn't exist outside of the comics she's been written in to.

TheTravis!
06-21-2007, 07:59 AM
You're enchanted.

..................... No I'm not.:scared:

Foolish Mortal
06-21-2007, 08:07 AM
The Enchantress was kinda like Alexis Carrington. She wasn't so much evil as she just simply wanted fame, fortune, and power. If she had to do evil things to accomplish that goal, then so be it. But she isn't predisposed to doing evil things.

She doesn't do things out of spitefulness or hatred like Thor's brother, Loki. Although you certainly didn't want to get in her way of achieving her goals. Then you'd be in trouble.

Charlie_1981
06-21-2007, 08:14 AM
I guess I don't understand why you love her so much, if writers have always depicted her the same way, without respect or justice, and without doing anything to update her personality. She doesn't exist outside of the comics she's been written in to.

Yes, but it is the problem, limiting her appearances in Thor, also there limits that the character is knowing beyond this book. Initially, The Enchantress was a character that I did not have too much interest until I read Walter Simonson's run in Thor and the saga World Engine of Warren Ellis. In this moment is when I was interested in the character more and I had liked to see her in other books and that the writers who have writing in Thor were doing something more for explaining things about her (past, relation with her family, power) and of all the asgardian characters in the same way as it was done in other Marvel books (Fantastic Four, Avengers, Daredevil, X-men, Captain America, Runaways...).

Len Snark
06-21-2007, 08:26 AM
I think the only time I read the Enchantress in a story was back in Secret Wars. Bring on the retcons!

Hate_Prime
06-21-2007, 08:34 AM
Well, your are right, maybe Iīm a little off base. The most powerful woman, yes, at least one of the most powerful women of the whole Marvel Universe. To be able of defeating any of The Mighty Avengers, to a big part of they, yes, Sentry would be the only one with whom she might have some problems but the problems of Sentry are already known and could be a thing that she can take advantage. The New Avengers, the only worthy rival of her would be the Doctor Strange.

I'm not so convinced she's the most powerful woman in the marvel U either.
Her magic focuses on beguiling men. Good but not as useful as being a strait-up psionic like Emma Frost who can do so much more than control men with her mind powers. Emma also has her diamond form so she's no pushover in a physical fight.

Then there's magic users like Clea. I figure she's got to have Enchantress so outclassed in the magic depart being that Clea is a Sorceress Supreme. That's Dr. Strange levels of magical ability. Then there's the Scarlet Witch who changed reality then depowered almost all mutants just by wishing it.

If we look at the cosmic characters, there's Phyla-Vell who is part Titan/part Captain freaking Marvel who has the potential to be nigh omnipotent like her brother did (trade off is she'd become crazy, though). She's also the new Quasar so she has the power of the Quantum Bands on top of her original powers. There's also Phoenix, but she's dead. There's a few more cosmic women who are uber powerful but I can't think of their names.

Charlie_1981
06-21-2007, 08:49 AM
I'm not so convinced she's the most powerful woman in the marvel U either.
Her magic focuses on beguiling men. Good but not as useful as being a strait-up psionic like Emma Frost who can do so much more than control men with her mind powers. Emma also has her diamond form so she's no pushover in a physical fight.

Then there's magic users like Clea. I figure she's got to have Enchantress so outclassed in the magic depart being that Clea is a Sorceress Supreme. That's Dr. Strange levels of magical ability. Then there's the Scarlet Witch who changed reality then depowered almost all mutants just by wishing it.

If we look at the cosmic characters, there's Phyla-Vell who is part Titan/part Captain freaking Marvel who has the potential to be nigh omnipotent like her brother did (trade off is she'd become crazy, though). She's also the new Quasar so she has the power of the Quantum Bands on top of her original powers. There's also Phoenix, but she's dead. There's a few more cosmic women who are uber powerful but I can't think of their names.

Yes, but The Enchantress is a goddess and her powers are not limited to control men. Sheīs the second most powerful goddess of Asgard and is invulnerable to psychics attacks as is seen in Secret Wars when the Professor Xavier tries to read her mind. The Enchantress magic blocked him and she says to him that his power is a joke for her.

TheTravis!
06-21-2007, 08:52 AM
Charlie 1981 : The Enchantress :: TomBurgos : Spider-Woman

Foolish Mortal
06-21-2007, 08:58 AM
Yes, but The Enchantress is a goddess and her powers are not limited to control men. Sheīs the second most powerful goddess of Asgard and is invulnerable to psychics attacks as is seen in Secret Wars when the Professor Xavier tries to read her mind. The Enchantress magic blocked him and she says to him that his power is a joke for her.
Yep, the Enchantress is a full-fledged sorceress.

BrianS
06-21-2007, 09:10 AM
Welcome Charlie...

If I remember, Warren Ellis did a great story with the Enchantress.
I think she is one of the best villainesses Marvel has, it would be great for her to return in a big way!!

JAK
06-21-2007, 09:18 AM
As long as the Executioner came back with her.
Skurge the Executioner was da shit!

TheTravis!
06-21-2007, 09:23 AM
As long as the Executioner came back with her.
Skurge the Executioner was da shit!

Quoted for you're goddamned right!

JAK
06-21-2007, 09:44 AM
Mofo fought all of Hela's legions on the bridge out of Hel!

Fuck Captain Marvel, they need to be bringin back Executioner!

Dusto
06-21-2007, 10:01 AM
She was in the Busiek/Larsen Defenders book.

Dusto
06-21-2007, 10:01 AM
As long as the Executioner came back with her.
Skurge the Executioner was da shit!

His death was too good to bring him back.

Charlie_1981
06-21-2007, 10:05 AM
She was in the Busiek/Larsen Defenders book.

It is incorrect, there was her younger sister, Lorelei who was supposed that she was dead, but for some reason that has never explained, she is alive and it is not known why besides she can be a survivor of the Ragnarök that destroyed Asgard in Oemingīs Thor run.

TheTravis!
06-21-2007, 10:07 AM
It is incorrect, there was her younger sister, Lorelei who was supposed that she was dead, but for some reason that has never explained, she is alive and it is not known why besides she can be a survivor of the Ragnarök that destroyed Asgard in Oemingīs Thor run.

Skrull!

JAK
06-21-2007, 10:09 AM
His death was too good to bring him back.

You are correct, sir. His death was quite good.
But he's a god. C'mon, you know how hard it is to kill a concept?...

just ask Captain America at some point in the next year and a half.

BTW-not talking smack aboot CA, I loves me some Captain America, one of da best books at Marvel right now

Charlie_1981
06-21-2007, 10:10 AM
Skrull!

Do you believe that a Skrull might infiltrate in Asgard, to copy / adapt the power of a goddess, to be caught in the body of a Valkyrie and to face a god of the death as Pluto?

DAVE
06-21-2007, 10:12 AM
Do you believe that a Skrull might infiltrate in Asgard, to copy / adapt the power of a goddess, to be caught in the body of a Valkyrie and to face a god of the death as Pluto?

I do beleive that. In fact, that is my religion.

Charlie_1981
06-21-2007, 07:47 PM
I do beleive that. In fact, that is my religion.

It would mean that the Skrulls have ascended to a level in which they are able of infiltrating in worlds of gods.

Skurge the Executioner should not return, his death was so good and so worthy that to revive him would diminish the history of his death and the feelings that later the Enchantress had on having revealed that she loved The Executioner and that there never had the opportunity to demonstrate it.

Ashwin Pande
06-21-2007, 08:03 PM
Enchantress was hot so yes.. she should return.

But not as a cookie-cutter villain though. I'd like to see someone do more with her. She'd become cool recently as Thor's consort when Sif dumped his ass so I'd love to see her role when Thor returns. I hope JMS doesn't go with the done villain angle on her.

artimoff
06-21-2007, 09:04 PM
Dude, where the fuck are you from?

Spain, it would seem.


I liked the Enchantress as well. Hopefully JMS won't fuck her up. Thor:Son of Asguard had a good story with her.

Cardinal Braxiatel
06-21-2007, 10:10 PM
Don't forget that the Enchantress was involved in the creation of just about every Valkyrie character Marvel featured and she's the one who trapped the Black Knight in stone form way back when. She's also responsible for the original origin of Thunderbolts' Atlas, in his debut as the one true Power Man. One thing that makes Amora so powerful is that she comes from the age of Marvel where Stan had villains doing whatever was necessary without getting bogged down in continuity or things like that.

Charlie_1981
06-22-2007, 06:55 AM
Don't forget that the Enchantress was involved in the creation of just about every Valkyrie character Marvel featured and she's the one who trapped the Black Knight in stone form way back when. She's also responsible for the original origin of Thunderbolts' Atlas, in his debut as the one true Power Man. One thing that makes Amora so powerful is that she comes from the age of Marvel where Stan had villains doing whatever was necessary without getting bogged down in continuity or things like that.

It is true, whereas several villains like the Doctor Doom, Kingpin, Loki or Magneto have been updated, of the Enchantress practically nothing has been done, the only thing that has been done with her is to show that she has a good side of the one that was not known at all and she might be a good option to be an Avenger some day. She would be the perfect substitute of The Scarlet Witch. Probably the fact of being so powerful, would limit very much the things that to balance would be used more her natural skills of seduction than her great power of witch.

DAVE
06-22-2007, 07:42 AM
It would mean that the Skrulls have ascended to a level in which they are able of infiltrating in worlds of gods.


Yes, everyone knows millions of years ago the Skrulls fought the Norse gods in a giant intergalactic/rainbow bridge spanning war all over the World Tree and into the Midgard's space sectors.
Finally Odin banished Pai'bok, the Skrull leader into several volcanos. Unfortunatly many Skrulls had already took the form of Asgardian cows, biding their time, until they eventually took the form of Asgardians themselves.
Xenu roxx.

Charlie_1981
06-23-2007, 01:49 AM
Yes, everyone knows millions of years ago the Skrulls fought the Norse gods in a giant intergalactic/rainbow bridge spanning war all over the World Tree and into the Midgard's space sectors.
Finally Odin banished Pai'bok, the Skrull leader into several volcanoes. Unfortunately many Skrulls had already took the form of Asgardian cows, biding their time, until they eventually took the form of Asgardians themselves.
Xenu roxx.

I know that is a joke, but I know also that this is unthinkable.

Charlie_1981
06-24-2007, 06:38 PM
Recovering a bit the thread and recovering a thing that I had said before adding more text.

Several villains of the Marvel Universe have been updated, revealing unknown things about them, characters like Magneto (If Claremont had not updated and improved this character, who had been of him, Would someone remember Magneto?), Doctor Doom (the writers of The Fantastic Four have done wonderful things with this character turning him into the big villain of Marvel), Kingpin (Frank Miller turned Kingpin into the great villain of Daredevil and demonstrating how could be a big mastermind) and even some lesser villains have got improved very much. The Enchantress is the great femme fatale of Marvel, if she had not existed in the first times of Marvel, at present had not existed characters as Emma Frost, Moonstone, Viper or Madame Masque, the Enchantress is a goddess with a big magic power, a natural skill that makes her irresistible to any man but the writers cannot take advantage or be able to do ,showing her as if she was a minor villain and a coward and weak person when it is not true beside limiting the character to Thor's book without doing anything to develop her history, the only thing that was done has been to show that she has a good side and that she is able of using her power to do good things (one of the best things ever) when in the past was the responsible of the creation of Power-man (Erik Josten) most known as Goliath and later Atlas. The Valkyrie joining to the Defenders, Turning into stone Black Knight and creating a conflict between Avengers and Defenders, Secret Wars (she was chosen over Loki), Hercules joining to the Avengers and a lot of things and who remember The Avengers Vol.1 100?

Cardinal Braxiatel
06-24-2007, 08:49 PM
Preaching to the choir, bud. I even got bored on my lunch break at work once and came up with a Young Masters of Evil that included teen versions of Amora and Skurge.

Charlie_1981
06-25-2007, 09:04 AM
Young Masters of Evil?, Teen versions of Amora and Skurge?, it would be cool and great.

Well, the summary of the whole thread is to contribute and to demonstrate that Amora the Enchantress has had and might manage to have a more important role in the Marvel Universe, Loki was the responsible person of the foundation of The Avengers but Amora has done much more than he in the whole Marvel Universe and the proofs are evident if the people and fans remember it, sheīs not only a pretty face and a sex bomb.

Kefky
06-25-2007, 09:07 AM
Eh, I liked Lorelei more.

TheTravis!
06-25-2007, 09:08 AM
Charlie, I picture you sitting around the house, just kind of chilling out, and suddenly you check your watch and yell out "HOLY CRAP! It's time to go post some stuff about the Enchantress on the Bendis Board!"

It makes me love you a little bit.

Charlie_1981
06-25-2007, 09:15 AM
Well, the other day, I found this picture by Adam Hughes.

http://www.comicartfans.com/Images/Category_2684/subcat_24276/Enchantress1.jpg

Charlie_1981
06-27-2007, 01:53 AM
To add a new argument to the whole thread, there would be necessary to differentiate that what happened with female characters of the same epoch and that what has happened with the Enchantress.

Susan Richards, The Wasp, The Black Widow, the Scarlet Witch, all of them have been updated and their skills and personality have developed very well, whereas with the Enchantress it has not managed to do it limiting her to Thor's book and provoking that was turning into a semi-known character by the big majority of comic-books fans. It is not to do justice with a great character as her.

Tom Burgos
06-27-2007, 02:19 AM
Eh, Morgan Le Fay is the better witch. :twisted:

Cardinal Braxiatel
06-27-2007, 08:55 AM
Morgan Le Fay is a generic bitter witch stolen from other media.

Charlie_1981
06-27-2007, 09:04 PM
Morgan Le Fay is a generic bitter witch stolen from other media.

Marvel Morgana Le Fay is better than another versions.

Well, a last contribution to the thread and a example of how could improve a character

First of everything, The Enchantress should return, later do a good update in every sense continuing what Ellis and Simonson began with this character and later to give her a major role and not to ignore all her immense potential, for which she is one of the best characters who has created Stan " The Man" Lee and Jack "The King" Kirby, though she is a personage tied to Thor's book. The problem of this character and in general, of all the characters of Thor's book it is the lack of development of characters, I am conscious that it is difficult to do it, of the Enchantress, might explaining thousands and thousands of things, if I, that I am not a writer, have ideas to improve this character, a professional writer might do things much better than I in this sense.

Example:Ms. Marvel, a character who after losing her power to Rogue's hands and of turning in Binary into Uncanny X-men, ended up being a forgotten character until Busiek recovered her for The Avengers, if Bendis was not a fan of this character, who knows what might have happened with Ms. Marvel, just now is a character with an important role in the Avengers, has own book and is popular enough. With Spider-woman something similar happens though just now she does not have own book.

Kirblar
06-27-2007, 09:08 PM
Gotta say, it's a little weird to start the exact same thread in 2 different boards, especially when it's not current events-related.

Charlie_1981
06-27-2007, 09:26 PM
Gotta say, it's a little weird to start the exact same thread in 2 different boards, especially when it's not current events-related.

Well, is a way to see more opinions.

Cardinal Braxiatel
06-27-2007, 09:29 PM
Well, is a way to see more opinions.

And all the better opinions are here, right?

Charlie_1981
06-27-2007, 09:31 PM
And all the better opinions are here, right?

Yeah, this is a great board.

killingyouguy
06-27-2007, 09:45 PM
I only really know her from the original Secret Wars, and really could care less. But then again, I didn't care about Spider-Woman or Ms. Marvel before New Avengers, so who knows. It depends on the writer and his/her take on the character.

Charlie_1981
06-27-2007, 09:49 PM
I only really know her from the original Secret Wars, and really could care less. But then again, I didn't care about Spider-Woman or Ms. Marvel before New Avengers, so who knows. It depends on the writer and his/her take on the character.

It is a big truth, JMS has the great opportunity to make something big in Thor's new book, and after the return of the Enchantress, to do everything possible to improve the character without forget who is her and what is able of doing. Maybe creating a new character that could affect the life of her and her sister, her mother.

costello
06-27-2007, 10:13 PM
I agree with killingyouguy. I have no clue who she is and that's probably a good thing. So much has been done in the last few years with characters I know nothing about or could care less about that I'll never take a character for granted. It's all about the writer and artist.

Hell, Bendis and Maleev created a great story with D-Man or whatever the heck his name was and I always figured the character as a Wolverine rip-off and avoided him like the plague.

Charlie_1981
06-27-2007, 10:45 PM
I agree with killingyouguy. I have no clue who she is and that's probably a good thing. So much has been done in the last few years with characters I know nothing about or could care less about that I'll never take a character for granted. It's all about the writer and artist.

Hell, Bendis and Maleev created a great story with D-Man or whatever the heck his name was and I always figured the character as a Wolverine rip-off and avoided him like the plague.

It is true, there are many characters of whom practically it has never managed to know anything until now, for example, recently I believe that there will be an special issue or miniseries about M.O.D.O.K, with the Enchantress when she returns something might be done similarly, including in the history her younger sister Lorelei because in opposite case it would be incoherent,

I read this D-Man's history and really I liked it a lot, D-man was never a character with a big interest, rather I consider him a insignificant character.

Foolish Mortal
06-28-2007, 06:53 AM
A short primer for D-Man (Demolition Man) :)

Dennis Dunphy was a wrestler in the Unlimited Class Wrestling Federation (That was first introduced in the old Thing solo series) who modeled his costume after Daredevil's old yellow costume whom Dunphy idolized.

D-Man hooks up with Captain America who is investigating the "Power Broker". The shady guy who gives superhuman powers to wrestlers in the Federation.

D-Man gets caught, and subjected to tests by Dr. Karl Malus (one of Cap's old foes) who is working for the Power Broker and is responsible for giving the wrestlers superpowers, and also killing those who his treatments fail to work on.

Malus' tests on D-Man damage his heart and he has a heart attack. He's later rescued by Cap, and hospitalized.

To make a long story short, D-Man has lots of ups and downs, and eventually lapses into a deep depression, and ends up homeless and living on the streets. In The Pulse, Ben Urich asks Daredevil to find him and get him help. Which he does.

Charlie_1981
06-28-2007, 07:13 AM
A short primer for D-Man (Demolition Man) :)

Dennis Dunphy was a wrestler in the Unlimited Class Wrestling Federation (That was first introduced in the old Thing solo series) who modeled his costume after Daredevil's old yellow costume whom Dunphy idolized.

D-Man hooks up with Captain America who is investigating the "Power Broker". The shady guy who gives superhuman powers to wrestlers in the Federation.

D-Man gets caught, and subjected to tests by Dr. Karl Malus (one of Cap's old foes) who is working for the Power Broker and is responsible for giving the wrestlers superpowers, and also killing those who his treatments fail to work on.

Malus' tests on D-Man damage his heart and he has a heart attack. He's later rescued by Cap, and hospitalized.

To make a long story short, D-Man has lots of ups and downs, and eventually lapses into a deep depression, and ends up homeless and living on the streets. In The Pulse, Ben Urich asks Daredevil to find him and get him help. Which he does.

I know his history, really it is interesting and just that a writer takes advantage of all these points to do a history about a lesser character as D-Man.

Of the Enchantress it has never managed to explain her origin, the only thing that is known of her is that she has a younger sister so bad or worse than her and that in her adolescence was a disciple of Karnilla before the norn queen was getting tired of her and was expelling Amora from her kingdom for rebelliousness and indiscipline.

Charlie_1981
06-30-2007, 10:07 AM
Well, seeing all the answers I have to say that all the opinions are good, there are persons who wish she returns, others no, and people who shows indifference and doesnīt care about her return or no but what if I know is that practically the opinion is unanimous about if she returns, there should be a good update and development.

Charlie_1981
07-01-2007, 05:29 AM
Well, the one who wants to continue contributing something new or to discuss about of what is inside the thread, no problem. I like to see more opinions and new contributions to the thread.

Unfortunately I will not be to answer due to the fact that this Monday, I have an operation but in two or three months, I will return totally recovered, I like a lot this board, to be the first time that I write here, I like to have received so many answers, I was not imagining that this thread was going to be so much successful.

Cardinal Braxiatel
07-01-2007, 07:16 AM
Be well.

Charlie_1981
07-06-2007, 11:02 PM
Be well.

Iīm back, though I canīt connect too much, the operation was well, still I feel some small pains but it will fix up with a bit of rest. Before the operation I was feeling nervous and did not know how the things might go, I was a bit pessimistic and I was thinking that I was going to be far from connecting a lot of time, but the luck is that everything was OK, better than I was waiting, though I couldnīt connect all the times that I would like, I will be administering a bit the time until Iīm recovered totally. Certainly, before finishing I have to say that I have read the first issue of New Thor and I have liked it very much, I was not imagining that it was going to be so good.

For adding a discussion

Excuse me if I can sound a bit polemic in some senses, itīs not my intention, only is a feeling and is with all respect with the work and ideas of the writers.

Recovering the thread that I wrote two weeks ago, I have to return to the spirit of the first message, in which I say that the Enchantress is a semi-unknown character when she should be more known, but it has been like that because no writer has worried about making her more known and for this reason she becomes useless and the people donīt care about if she dies or she lives. I have tried to put arguments and reasons but I donīt know if that can be used for some thing.

Few people know who is her, there are persons who remember the character of books that have to see nothing with Thor and only two writers try to make something different with her, I wonder that would think writers as Kurt Busiek or Brian Michael Bendis or the writer who killed her in the first part of the Ragnarok Saga without do any more because he was worrying more about characters as Sif or The Valkyrie that though they were dying, they appeared much more.

I would like to know Mike Oeming's opinion about being writing 6 issues of Thor, he had been 20 or 30 issues, What he would do or had he done with a character as her in 20 or 30 issues?, to allow that she should turn into a forgotten character of that nobody would remember anything or he had tried to do a great history with her, reinforcing and updating the character to do it much more interesting and more known for the fans.

Sincerely I am tired of speaking about The Enchantress, basically because I know that very few persons agree with me in whom she is a great character who needs a better development, respect, justice and an important role on the part of the Marvel writers.

It is evident that I feel frustrated enough because I observe that this character that I like / love so much is a character condemned to be forgotten forever, is true that she has appeared in the game Marvel: Ultimate Alliance and in the miniseries Marvel Zombies vs Army of Darkness and she had an important role in Thor (very bad developed by Jurgens), but I have slight doubts that she appears in the new Thor of JMS, I donīt believe that he remembers a character as her (Enchantress: 1st Appearance: Journey into Mystery 103 (1964) First femme fatale / villainess of Marvel, model of all femmes fatales from her first appearance until recent days), because his Thor only will be based and focused on Thor, Donald Blake, Loki and Odin and on minor measure, probably Sif, Balder, Warriors Three and for some type of chance, the Valkyrie, ignoring the Enchantress and her history of the last years, as if a relation between she and Thor did never exist and that never exist that she has a young sister called Lorelei.

Charlie_1981
07-07-2007, 01:07 PM
Does nobody want to discuss this? Well, it wants to say that more or less the idea is caught and that more or less is understand to what I refer.

Charlie_1981
07-09-2007, 09:08 PM
A little thinking

There are occasions in which I observe that always is spoken about Balder, Warriors Three, Sif, Beta Ray Bill as the great allies of Thor (no exactly in this board, in others) forgetting that the Enchantress also has helped him very much and possibly more than all of them.... when in the last years, the Enchantress also turned in ally of Thor and it seems that there are persons who do not have memory of it and think in a conservative way as if the Enchantress had never changed and she continues being a villainess. Other characters began as villains and now they are heroes and nobody remembers them as what they were before, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Moon Dragon, The Thunderbolts, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, The Vision... It has been practically a tradition in the Avengers. The redemption is essential, look At The New Thunderbolts with Speedball (now Penance).

Colby
07-09-2007, 09:39 PM
I rather like the character and would be all about a well-done comeback.

But I'm not exactly losing sleep over it if it doesn't happen.

Matt O'Keefe
07-09-2007, 09:41 PM
I love her character, so I hope so.

Charlie_1981
07-10-2007, 09:11 AM
JMS is a good writer, The only thing that I wait/pray and cross the fingers in order that it is like that, is that he does not forget that she exists at the moment of resurrect the asgardians. Sheīs so cool for being forgotten and missed.

Cardinal Braxiatel
07-10-2007, 09:14 AM
Amora has very important ties to the Black Knight and the Valkyrie as well. She also may be the only female Marvel character that I believe would stand a snowball's chance of taking down Scarlet Witch now.

ds9
07-10-2007, 09:16 AM
She is a good character because you never really know her motives for doing anything. She is very cunning and elusive in her actions.

Charlie_1981
07-10-2007, 09:49 AM
Amora has very important ties to the Black Knight and the Valkyrie as well. She also may be the only female Marvel character that I believe would stand a snowball's chance of taking down Scarlet Witch now.

It would be brilliant, the Enchantress versus the Scarlet Witch, it would be something really worthy of seeing and reading. (specially if a good writer writes it and a great artist shows the magnitude of the battle).

Charlie_1981
07-10-2007, 09:50 AM
She is a good character because you never really know her motives for doing anything. She is very cunning and elusive in her actions.

It is true, the ambiguity in the one that she moves is what makes her very interesting, it is one of the reasons for I like a lot this character.

An idea: At the moment of explaining her past and all that, because it never has explained and any writer is free to explain it without thinking in past references, except the essentials, the ambiguity would be an essential element, probably adding a conflict between mother and daughter (only Amora, Lorelei would be different) to explain some things of her personality, more the great love than she could have for her father for the one that was feeling a great admiration and respect. It would be an incredible history of a woman considered the most beautiful woman of Asgard with a very strong personality and that turns out to be difficult to find the happiness.

DAVE
07-10-2007, 09:54 AM
The character isn't ambigious at all. She evil because she's a woman and she's sexy. She uses sex as a weapon against men, because you know, that's what sexy wimmins do.
When the strong god with the magic hammer beat her, she became "good".

Charlie_1981
07-10-2007, 08:01 PM
The character isn't ambigious at all. She evil because she's a woman and she's sexy. She uses sex as a weapon against men, because you know, that's what sexy wimmins do.
When the strong god with the magic hammer beat her, she became "good".

It also might be applicable to Mystique or Emma Frost, even to the Scarlet Witch. The Enchantress is ambiguous because it is never known that she is going to do, is one of the most intelligent women of Marvel because she knows perfectly that it is what she must do in any situation, her only weakness is Thor.

The last thing that you have said, I would not be able how interpret but I imagine it.

Charlie_1981
07-16-2007, 07:59 AM
Recovering a bit the thread, I have to say that if the Enchantress should turn into heroine or if she return to be a villainess, it would be interesting and would add a freshness and a depth that her new partner should be her sister Lorelei, because the development of both goddesses would add a lot of good things in the stories as for example see both sisters fighting or trying to fight together against their enemies.

My reasons in order that Skurge the Executioner does not return.

If he returns, the history of his death would remain totally disqualified, such a worthy death and so well written should provoke that this character could not return, in addition this was the beginning of the change of the Enchantress, in the same way as the death of Captain Marvel in that Jim Starlin's great history or Gwen Stacy in Spider-man in one of the best stories of Marvel of the 70īs.

Charlie_1981
07-19-2007, 05:33 PM
I am going to write what is going to be my last contribution to the thread of the Enchantress, probably in a time the people will worry and will wonder why I have stopped speaking about the Enchantress but Iīm very pessimistic in this sense and Iīm sure of that a lot of people will understand.

First, I like to speak about this character because I think that she is one of the best characters of Marvel, the problem is that nobody in Marvel seems to worry about her, improving and update and the majority of writers of Thor not worry about giving her more depth and development what provokes that the majority of the people does not worry or remembers who she is.

Second, for the first time in a lot of time, there is a great writer in Thor, which should do that all these characters about whom nobody was worrying, specially the Enchantress, she is a character that deserves a major role and relevancy.

Third, Jürgens was late very much in including her in his run, Oeming did not worry the most minimal thing and basically she was appearing in two panels and without dialog and with JMS I have too many doubts, the only thing that I wish is that is done justice to a character who has never had it.

Charlie_1981
07-23-2007, 07:59 AM
The truth is that I have been thinking it well at all these hours/days since I have put what I was thinking and feeling and I will not give up.

There have had characters of those who originally were not important as Emma Frost, I say this, because I think that it is the perfect example of what might to be the Enchantress in hands of a good writer, there are many writers who would do wonderful things with a character as her, Brubaker, Millar, JMS, Ellis, Morrison, Gaiman and I am sorry to say very much this, Bendis, forgive me if someone can feel offended given the circumstances and how are New Avengers and The Mighty Avengers ... without trying not to fall down in the easiest thing.

The imagination and what is had to do is important, the question is to try to insist and to strain in improving the characters making them make things to which they are not accustomed, different things and specially, respect and do justice with them.

And for add another thing.

Examples of characters that in the beginning were nothing:

She-Hulk: If it had not been for John Byrne, She-Hulk would continue being known for being a bad female imitation of Hulk and now for some time, She-Hulk turned into a very popular character.

Emma Frost: Morrison had a very strange idea that was that a character with the power of the telepathy, has a new skill that for many people could be unnecessary as to be that she could do that her body was so hard as the diamond and obviously making her a good member of X-men.

Invisible Woman: John Byrne again, I am sure that a lot of people remember that history in which the Fantastic Four were facing Psycho-man that practically violating psychologically Sue Richards.

- With the Enchantress incredible things could have been done, but all that was wasted, with the death of her old partner The Executioner and in Tom DeFalco's run, the death of her sister Lorelei, it was wasted a great opportunity to do that the Enchantress was better developed by the writers until Warren Ellis wrote 4 issues of Thor, if he had done more, I am sure that Ellis had done with the Enchantress something so important that other writers never managed to do in 40 years of Marvel.

- I have my ideas to improve the Enchantress, to turn her in a teacher (human ID) and that she taking care of one of her students in the school before recovering her memory and power, the appearance of her mother (a woman of incredible power with the aptitude to dominate without problems their two daughters and even to overcome the capacity of Loki's manipulation), to make Amora more aggressive to the point that she does not hesitate to kill anyone that prevents her step, Amora decides to continue her own way after refuse the love of Thor because she makes what she makes for Thor (help him with his enemies, saving his life...), he considers Enchantress his enemy, Something that for her would be too much as be able to support it, any thing can be good.

DAVE
07-23-2007, 08:01 AM
Thread of the year? No.
Thread of the Decade. Maybe!

Charlie_1981
07-23-2007, 08:20 AM
Thread of the year? No.
Thread of the Decade. Maybe!


Well, I like to contribute things, ideas, arguments to discuss and to try to reinforce the idea that I have about this character that I like a lot, though sometimes it is difficult to make and to defend what iīm think.

GelfXIII
07-23-2007, 08:21 AM
I didn't know she went anywhere. Could we get her to pick up a 6 pack on her way back?

Cardinal Braxiatel
07-23-2007, 11:49 AM
I didn't know she went anywhere. Could we get her to pick up a 6 pack on her way back?

Yeah, a six pack of kick your ass! :lol:

bartleby
07-23-2007, 11:55 AM
I'm not bothering to read this thread, but can anybody explain to me why there's a thread that's gone on for longer than a month and is about to reach 100 posts regarding The Enchantress?

bradical
07-23-2007, 11:55 AM
Yeah, a six pack of kick your ass! :lol:

http://thecrackerqueen.com/images/pictureshow/picture2.jpg

Cardinal Braxiatel
07-23-2007, 12:10 PM
I'm not bothering to read this thread, but can anybody explain to me why there's a thread that's gone on for longer than a month and is about to reach 100 posts regarding The Enchantress?

It's fun and lighthearted and Chuck has the strength of ten men because his heart is pure?

Charlie_1981
07-23-2007, 07:29 PM
It's fun and lighthearted and Chuck has the strength of ten men because his heart is pure?

Well, basically I like to add new things and I like to see and to read the opinion of the people, the Enchantress is a character that I like a lot and I think that she has never had enough protagonism due to the fact of which no writer has worried about making anything good with her because the Enchantress for a long time had been a villainess, the only female villain of the Marvel Universe of high-level. The question is that anyone can have good ideas to improve the characters, the basic problem is that any writer who has used the Enchantress always has done the same thing and it for many people that likes a character as her, it can turn out to be frustrating, Walt Simonson y Warren Ellis are the only writers that tried to change it.

Cardinal Braxiatel
07-23-2007, 07:40 PM
And in recent years Morgan le Fay has stolen her schtick in the MU, which I suppose could be changed considering the feminist revisionism people are attempting with the Morgan character.

Charlie_1981
07-23-2007, 08:06 PM
And in recent years Morgan le Fay has stolen her schtick in the MU, which I suppose could be changed considering the feminist revisionism people are attempting with the Morgan character.

It can be, I, the only thing for that I wait is that Marvel and any Marvel writer (not only JMS) ends up doing justice with a character as Amora because a character like her deserves much more and it also should include her sister Lorelei, because she also exists and should not forget it.

Cardinal Braxiatel
07-23-2007, 08:14 PM
She also needs an evil, gay baby brother. Are there any gay villains? He could fill a niche.

Dermie
07-23-2007, 08:37 PM
She also needs an evil, gay baby brother. Are there any gay villains? He could fill a niche.

Gay villains...there is Machinesmith. Batwing, from the Guardians of the Galaxy's future timeline. And there was a former SHIELD agent-turned-super-terrorist who was implied to be gay. He was the brother of Cap's love interest at the time, Connie Ferrari. Umm...that might be it for gay male villains. Oh, Purple Man may be bisexual, given some of the stuff he did with Scott Lang and the Swordsman.

As for gay villainesses...Mystique is bisexual, as is Gypsy Moth. Man-Killer is a lesbian.

Cardinal Braxiatel
07-23-2007, 09:28 PM
I want a big ass gay super villain, I guess. None of this pussy footing around, all gay guys are eitehr Jack or Will crap. I want equal rights villainy! It's starting to remind of back in the 70's when Black characters were made too good to make up for years of mistreatment.

Charlie_1981
07-24-2007, 05:24 AM
I believe that you are turning aside of the theme, there is something that probably nobody has thought, Amora the Enchantress, thinking that she is a goddess and that she is immortal and that she dominates all the amatory-love arts, it is possible that in some moment she could have had relations with other women but it is evident that she likes men.

Cardinal Braxiatel
07-24-2007, 09:49 AM
Nah, I just digressed off topic. Amora is distinctly straight and writing her otherwise wouldn't be right. The character strikes me as the type who would never disapprove of alternate lifestyles but would never understand why.

adam_warlock_2099
07-24-2007, 10:06 AM
I'm not bothering to read this thread, but can anybody explain to me why there's a thread that's gone on for longer than a month and is about to reach 100 posts regarding The Enchantress?

I guess she is interesting to some people. I liked her role a lot in Thor. You never can tell what will spark an interesting thread though.

Charlie_1981
07-24-2007, 07:25 PM
I guess she is interesting to some people. I liked her role a lot in Thor. You never can tell what will spark an interesting thread though.

It is true, the question is that I wrote this thread and I added examples of characters who were nothing some time ago and now are popular because I was thinking that it was something important and having seen all the answers, really there has been demonstrated that the Enchantress is a character really interesting with a huge potential that need to be developed and updated.

adam_warlock_2099
07-25-2007, 05:34 AM
It is true, the question is that I wrote this thread and I added examples of characters who were nothing some time ago and now are popular because I was thinking that it was something important and having seen all the answers, really there has been demonstrated that the Enchantress is a character really interesting with a huge potential that need to be developed and updated.

There are a lot of characters like that, which don't get the coverage that they should deserve. Of course, Adam Warlock and my other favorite Thanos, are ones that have been lost in a time where the great cosmic stories of old just don't happen anymore. In recent times we have Annihilation, and if you want to say Infinifty Abyss and Marvel: The End, for cosmic stories.

I always thought that the Enchantress worked so well with Thor because she is a creature of intense emotions, and Thor is a god who is suppose to be devoid of such emotions except the rightouse anger needed in the battle against villians. So for her to be able to play on Thor's "weaker" emotions is just great for both character's development.

DAVE
07-25-2007, 06:33 AM
today...I care.
Who knows what tomorrow will bring?

WAKKAJAWAKKA
07-25-2007, 06:33 AM
Not Even A Little.

Wayno.

Charlie_1981
07-25-2007, 06:39 AM
There are a lot of characters like that, which don't get the coverage that they should deserve. Of course, Adam Warlock and my other favorite Thanos, are ones that have been lost in a time where the great cosmic stories of old just don't happen anymore. In recent times we have Annihilation, and if you want to say Infinifty Abyss and Marvel: The End, for cosmic stories.

The truth is that yes, but concerning cosmic characters it is difficult to make something interesting. Annihilation is in certain way, one of the Marvel's best cosmic histories in years, for me, there are things that remember a bit to Star Wars.


I always thought that the Enchantress worked so well with Thor because she is a creature of intense emotions, and Thor is a god who is suppose to be devoid of such emotions except the rightouse anger needed in the battle against villians. So for her to be able to play on Thor's "weaker" emotions is just great for both character's development.

I think that maybe is like that, but there would be necessary to revise all her appearances in all the books in which she has appeared from her first appearance and to do a comparison between these books and Walter Simonson y Warren Ellisīs runs in Thor, the difference is very big and because of it with the examples of characters that I have put (She-Hulk, Emma Frost, Mystique, Spider-woman, Ms. Marvel, Moonstone, Songbird ...) it should try to change some things and give her a depth that has never managed to have because there was a good opportunity to do it (Skurge the Executioner's Death and Death of her younger sister Lorelei) and the writers of Thor did not do anything to develop the character, because of it I think that just now it would be a great opportunity that should not be wasted.

adam_warlock_2099
07-25-2007, 07:14 AM
The truth is that yes, but concerning cosmic characters it is difficult to make something interesting. Annihilation is in certain way, one of the Marvel's best cosmic histories in years, for me, there are things that remember a bit to Star Wars.

My favorite has always been Infinity Gauntlet. It really is one of the greatest cosmic stories written. But I am also partial to Jim Starlin's writings, as he does excellent cosmic storylines.

I think that with recent years, and a new generation of comic book readers, that such stories are not in demand. Thanos' series lasting only 12 issues, Silver Surfer's series getting cancelled. The Ultimate Universe including cosmic characters like the Fantastic Four, but different than the Marvel Universe, lends to the fact that readers are looking for something different. And so publishers are giving the readers what they want and apparently that isn't the all encompassing cosmic stories of old, but stories like Civil War and World War Hulk.

I guess I just haven't climitized myself to this generation of comic books.


I think that maybe is like that, but there would be necessary to revise all her appearances in all the books in which she has appeared from her first appearance and to do a comparison between these books and Walter Simonson y Warren Ellisīs runs in Thor, the difference is very big and because of it with the examples of characters that I have put (She-Hulk, Emma Frost, Mystique, Spider-woman, Ms. Marvel, Moonstone, Songbird ...) it should try to change some things and give her a depth that has never managed to have because there was a good opportunity to do it (Skurge the Executioner's Death and Death of her younger sister Lorelei) and the writers of Thor did not do anything to develop the character, because of it I think that just now it would be a great opportunity that should not be wasted.

Simonson's run on Thor always will be my favorite. I did enjoy the second volume of Thor, especially the Thanos/Mangog arc. I like that Simonson (even if it was unintentional through his writing) gave her a bit of a mysterious air around her. I like that she seems unattainable to the common man, so her attentions would be greatly sought after. I would like to be able read some back stories of her that help develop her character.

Evan the Shaggy
07-25-2007, 07:25 AM
I was wondering why this thread had so many posts. Now I know.

Charlie_1981
07-25-2007, 07:41 AM
My favorite has always been Infinity Gauntlet. It really is one of the greatest cosmic stories written. But I am also partial to Jim Starlin's writings, as he does excellent cosmic storylines.

I think that with recent years, and a new generation of comic book readers, that such stories are not in demand. Thanos' series lasting only 12 issues, Silver Surfer's series getting canceled. The Ultimate Universe including cosmic characters like the Fantastic Four, but different than the Marvel Universe, lends to the fact that readers are looking for something different. And so publishers are giving the readers what they want and apparently that isn't the all encompassing cosmic stories of old, but stories like Civil War and World War Hulk.

I guess I just haven't climitized myself to this generation of comic books.



Simonson's run on Thor always will be my favorite. I did enjoy the second volume of Thor, especially the Thanos/Mangog arc. I like that Simonson (even if it was unintentional through his writing) gave her a bit of a mysterious air around her. I like that she seems unattainable to the common man, so her attentions would be greatly sought after. I would like to be able read some back stories of her that help develop her character.

I know it, but I, for a lot of time, concretely of the years in which the Infinity Gauntlet series appeared, I did not have any interest in the cosmic histories because I was considering it to be anything very boring, now with Annihilation it has changed.

For me, there is no run in Thor (possibly Lee-Kirby's run and first Roy Thomas run) can overcome what Walter Simonson did. With this theme of the Enchantress, I believe that I have achieved that persons who did not know these character or who had a limited knowledge, start knowing her a bit.

Jef UK
07-25-2007, 07:46 AM
I think that with recent years, and a new generation of comic book readers, that such stories are not in demand. Thanos' series lasting only 12 issues, Silver Surfer's series getting cancelled. The Ultimate Universe including cosmic characters like the Fantastic Four, but different than the Marvel Universe, lends to the fact that readers are looking for something different. And so publishers are giving the readers what they want and apparently that isn't the all encompassing cosmic stories of old, but stories like Civil War and World War Hulk.

Annihilation has been and continues to be a big success.

adam_warlock_2099
07-25-2007, 07:50 AM
Annihilation has been and continues to be a big success.

Yes it is a great success, and I am loving every minute of it. All I was saying was that besides Annihilation the amount and frequency of cosmic based story lines have been less then they were in past years.

Charlie_1981
07-25-2007, 08:01 AM
Yes it is a great success, and I am loving every minute of it. All I was saying was that besides Annihilation the amount and frequency of cosmic based story lines have been less then they were in past years.

Well, the thread does not go of cosmic histories, but in certain way it is a good example that adam_warlock_2099 has given to explain his version of why there are characters as the Enchantress or in his case, adam warlock or thanos that have been ended wasted.

adam_warlock_2099
07-25-2007, 08:26 AM
I know it, but I, for a lot of time, concretely of the years in which the Infinity Gauntlet series appeared, I did not have any interest in the cosmic histories because I was considering it to be anything very boring, now with Annihilation it has changed.

Well I started as what most uninformed comic readers, with the ususal; Spider-Man, X-Men, and Batman. Even before comics, I always liked Batman. At the time I started collecting Marvel was doing the Clone Saga and Age of Apocalypse (which I loved), and the 2099 Universe. Until my comic dealer steered me towards Starlin's run of Power of Warlock, I never knew cosmic. After that I was hooked, and probably why the majority of my comic purchases come from longboxes and not the shelves.


For me, there is no run in Thor (possibly Lee-Kirby's run and first Roy Thomas run) can overcome what Walter Simonson did. With this theme of the Enchantress, I believe that I have achieved that persons who did not know these character or who had a limited knowledge, start knowing her a bit.

Yes, Simonson definatly brought, to me, to Thor what Bendis has done to Spider-man with the Ultimate. I have never really enjoyed the Spider-man post Clone Sage, but Ultimate Spider-man was it for me. I have always like Roy's run as well, but it was the perfection of Simonson's art and writing both together.

Charlie_1981
07-25-2007, 08:46 AM
Well I started as what most uninformed comic readers, with the ususal; Spider-Man, X-Men, and Batman. Even before comics, I always liked Batman. At the time I started collecting Marvel was doing the Clone Saga and Age of Apocalypse (which I loved), and the 2099 Universe. Until my comic dealer steered me towards Starlin's run of Power of Warlock, I never knew cosmic. After that I was hooked, and probably why the majority of my comic purchases come from longboxes and not the shelves.



Yes, Simonson definatly brought, to me, to Thor what Bendis has done to Spider-man with the Ultimate. I have never really enjoyed the Spider-man post Clone Sage, but Ultimate Spider-man was it for me. I have always like Roy's run as well, but it was the perfection of Simonson's art and writing both together.

For me it was happen with Thor, my old brother was a big fan and he liked the whole theme of the mythology, if there had been a Hercules' book in the same way as Thor, possibly he had bought it, though with the time he went more towards the X-books until he got bored of them and returned with Spider-Man , Avengers, Fantastic Four and Thor.

In it I agree totally and Iīm sure that now with JMS, he will do big things in Thor, but I was a bit worried by the Enchantressīs character, because for enough time I saw that was not done something with her whereas with other characters of the Marvel Universe, the writers makes any thing. I, for example I believe that a limited series or an ongoing book of the Enchantress if were writing by Neil Gaiman or Warren Ellis and the artist was Alan Davis or Arthur Adams, it would be something worthy of reading.

adam_warlock_2099
07-25-2007, 10:51 AM
For me it was happen with Thor, my old brother was a big fan and he liked the whole theme of the mythology, if there had been a Hercules' book in the same way as Thor, possibly he had bought it, though with the time he went more towards the X-books until he got bored of them and returned with Spider-Man , Avengers, Fantastic Four and Thor.

In it I agree totally and Iīm sure that now with JMS, he will do big things in Thor, but I was a bit worried by the Enchantressīs character, because for enough time I saw that was not done something with her whereas with other characters of the Marvel Universe, the writers makes any thing. I, for example I believe that a limited series or an ongoing book of the Enchantress if were writing by Neil Gaiman or Warren Ellis and the artist was Alan Davis or Arthur Adams, it would be something worthy of reading.

Yes, an Enchantress at least limited series would be well worth it. Provided there were a good, or a number of good writers, even an on-going series. Me personally wouldn't mind seeing someone like Grant Morrison, Mike Mignola, or Chris Claremont write it. Salvador Larroca or Ian Churchill would provide excellent art for a female figure.

Charlie_1981
07-25-2007, 02:09 PM
Yes, an Enchantress at least limited series would be well worth it. Provided there were a good, or a number of good writers, even an on-going series. Me personally wouldn't mind seeing someone like Grant Morrison, Mike Mignola, or Chris Claremont write it. Salvador Larroca or Ian Churchill would provide excellent art for a female figure.

Probably yes, though I have thought about writers of a certain style, considering to be that Ellis did with the Enchantress in four issues what nobody had dared to do in 40 years of Marvel, I had thought that he would be the perfect writer for a miniseries or an ongoing book of the Enchantress, almost everything what has made Claremont always has been related to mutants (including his run in The Fantastic Four), for what it would be the same thing, to the difference of which it would be a book in the one that would be everything opposite that Dazzler's book some time ago.

Mark Millar, Iīm sure that also would make something different with the Enchantress and I would say that it would be so fun or possibly more than when John Byrne wrote or Dan Slott writes She-Hulk. And of artists, Alan Davis, Carlos Pacheco, Brian Hitch or Arthur Adams would be perfect.

adam_warlock_2099
07-25-2007, 03:02 PM
Probably yes, though I have thought about writers of a certain style, considering to be that Ellis did with the Enchantress in four issues what nobody had dared to do in 40 years of Marvel, I had thought that he would be the perfect writer for a miniseries or an ongoing book of the Enchantress, almost everything what has made Claremont always has been related to mutants (including his run in The Fantastic Four), for what it would be the same thing, to the difference of which it would be a book in the one that would be everything opposite that Dazzler's book some time ago.

Mark Millar, Iīm sure that also would make something different with the Enchantress and I would say that it would be so fun or possibly more than when John Byrne wrote or Dan Slott writes She-Hulk. And of artists, Alan Davis, Carlos Pacheco, Brian Hitch or Arthur Adams would be perfect.

I guess I missed what Ellis did with Enchantress? What book was that in?

As far as artists, even though I like Deodato's art, it was the style that they made Enchantress in the late (Vol.1) Thor that I hope they never return too . . .

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/87387731330.500.gif

Visually, I more like this kind of Enchantress . . .

http://www.leaderslair.com/lightningcrashes/thor2-049pic1.gif

And I wouldn't mind them even going towards a more Oriental style Enchantress . . .

Cardinal Braxiatel
07-25-2007, 03:55 PM
I thumbed through Onslaught Reborn in the shop today and there's major Enchantress there. Not enough to get me past my Liefeld Embargo but she's back in print and I thought you guys should know.

Charlie_1981
07-25-2007, 06:41 PM
I guess I missed what Ellis did with Enchantress? What book was that in?

As far as artists, even though I like Deodato's art, it was the style that they made Enchantress in the late (Vol.1) Thor that I hope they never return too . . .

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/large/87387731330.500.gif

Visually, I more like this kind of Enchantress . . .

http://www.leaderslair.com/lightningcrashes/thor2-049pic1.gif

And I wouldn't mind them even going towards a more Oriental style Enchantress . . .

It was in Thor #491 to 494, really Deodatoīs art was good enough and now possibly more, because he has improved enough from this epoch, there are very good artists who might draw an excellent Enchantress, Terry Dodson, Adam Hughes, Frank Cho, Greg Horn, George Perez, J. Scott Campbell besides which already I had put before as Alan Davis or Arthur Adams...

And answering to Fred, I have not seen Onslaught Reborn but when I see it, already I will say that it has seemed to me, in spite of the fact that I have never liked Rob Liefeld and possibly I will never like his art.

Charlie_1981
07-29-2007, 12:53 PM
If there is wasted this opportunity to do something good and interesting with The Enchantress, feeling it very much, it would be better than it continues ignoring her existence until there appears a good writer who remembers that The Enchantress exists and does a great history with her. Iīm not going to repeat everything what already I had said before because it is known enough which is my opinion about all that and I donīt want that it seems that Iīm starting to repeat.

When I see threads in different forums that speak who is the most beautiful woman of the Marvel Universe , Amora wasnīt included in the different choices that exists, for what, always she ends up being ignored, I donīt know if it is lack of knowledge of her existence or directly because no one cares about her due to the fact that any writer has given her depth nor have tried to update it, explaining something more about her, giving her more appearances than other characters (heroines and villainesses) have had.

Probably it could be for the fact that for a long time Thor's book has not been enough popular, probably for the fact that many people might get bored for different motives, every issue was a constant battle between Thor and Loki or Thor against the Absorbing Man or Thor against the Wrecking Crew or Thor against Surtur, with the majority of Odin's appearances and unfortunately ignoring the rest of secondary characters that they might look like characters without any type of personality that practically the writers donīt cares about them, another reason might be and I know that a lot of people say it, for the way of speaking of Thor, So Shakespearean.

The question of these affirmations would be to explain it so that it should understand well. Why are so popular The Fantastic Four, The Avengers, X-men, Hulk and Spider-Man? I would define it in several words, development, evolution, depth, good writers, good artists and good histories of secondary characters besides the main character and the villains, just now the most useless character of each one of these books is much more popular than the Enchantress.

bradical
07-29-2007, 12:56 PM
wow.

thor's got a new book. #2 is out this week. i'm sure, as he rediscovers all things asgard, that the enchantress will show up at some point.

adam_warlock_2099
07-29-2007, 01:13 PM
wow.

thor's got a new book. #2 is out this week. i'm sure, as he rediscovers all things asgard, that the enchantress will show up at some point.

Yes, it is good. Excellent read. I hope that they do something with Enchantress.

Charlie_1981
07-29-2007, 06:34 PM
Yes, it is good. Excellent read. I hope that they do something with Enchantress.

I also wait for it, but I am too pessimistic in this sense because Iīm conscious and I have assumed that JMS does not know The Enchantressīs character and is not going to do anything with her in the same way as other writers, it is sad but Iīm sure that the time will end up for giving me the reason, if she appears and I donīt have reason, I will admit that I have been wrong.

bradical
07-29-2007, 06:39 PM
I also wait for it, but I am too pessimistic in this sense because Iīm conscious and I have assumed that JMS does not know The Enchantressīs character and is not going to do anything with her in the same way as other writers, it is sad but Iīm sure that the time will end up for giving me the reason, if she appears and I donīt have reason, I will admit that I have been wrong.

what about baldar? do you like baldar? or are you stictly the enchantress when it comes to asgard? i like baldar.

Charlie_1981
07-29-2007, 06:46 PM
what about baldar? do you like baldar? or are you stictly the enchantress when it comes to asgard? i like baldar.

I speak concretely about her because other characters I know that they will appear, Balder, Sif, warriors Three, Loki, Heimdall ... they will appear but unfortunately with the Enchantress I have many doubts.

Dermie
07-30-2007, 03:21 AM
I speak concretely about her because other characters I know that they will appear, Balder, Sif, warriors Three, Loki, Heimdall ... they will appear but unfortunately with the Enchantress I have many doubts.

Why? The Enchantress is such a large part of the past Thor and Asgard stories, I can't see why they'd bring back everyone else and not her.

Charlie_1981
07-30-2007, 06:48 AM
Why? The Enchantress is such a large part of the past Thor and Asgard stories, I can't see why they'd bring back everyone else and not her.

I know it, but there are times in which some writers have lack of memory and they forget that exists great characters with a great potential that continuously is wasted in a bad way. I donīt want that the Enchantress becomes a forgotten character, one of those characters who nobody remembers and that when somebody remembers her, ends up killing her in the most ridiculous and pathetic way ignoring all her history because the writer considers her, irrelevant or simply the writer donīt like her.

Because of it I say all these things and I complain so much, I try to put examples of characters who were nothing and now they are more than they were before, developed well in their personality, in their power, in their history, and meanwhile, with the Enchantress absolutely nothing, if really she is so important, it would not be so difficult to make anything serious with her, there are characters who are absolutely useless with that there has been done much more than with the Enchantress, character that her story and origin never was explained, only was revealed her real name and the existence of a younger sister.

Charlie_1981
07-31-2007, 11:46 AM
Well, I return to put the thread in the first line for the one who wants to give his or her opinion or to contribute some new thing or it might give for close until she returns to appear and comment her new role.

Charlie_1981
08-05-2007, 12:21 PM
To contribute some ideas of How might develop better a character as the Enchantress, I have three ideas based on three examples.

1) A great battle against The Scarlet Witch or someone with a great power. (A battle worth to see, a battle in which to the hero or heroine nothing happens or ends up by being an injured man or woman, is not a true battle. In this case, Amora would be the heroine due to what happens to the Scarlet Witch.)

2) To give depth and to reveal things of her personality and her past (the appearance of her mother, to reveal things as a great love and respect that she was feeling for her father)

3) To separate her of Thor demonstrating that though Amora, all her life always has felt an obsessive love for him, she is able of being very independent and refusing her love for another more important objective. (For example, in her human identity, she might be a teacher, due to a situation that escapes to her control, she saves the life of a student with problems and ends up by taking charge of her, more later, Amora discovers that her student is a super-genius with a intelligence and potential to the level of genius as Bruce Banner, Tony Stark, Henry Pym, Victor Von Doom and Reed Richards with the difference of which this student isnīt considered herself to be a genius and prefers continuing being a normal girl with normal worries.

Matt O'Keefe
08-05-2007, 12:38 PM
I also wait for it, but I am too pessimistic in this sense because Iīm conscious and I have assumed that JMS does not know The Enchantressīs character and is not going to do anything with her in the same way as other writers, it is sad but Iīm sure that the time will end up for giving me the reason, if she appears and I donīt have reason, I will admit that I have been wrong.

He told me at NYCC he reread Simonson's run before writing the first issue. She'll be in there.

Ben
08-05-2007, 12:46 PM
Is it possible to like the Enchantress TOO much?

Albert
08-05-2007, 12:47 PM
Is it possible to like the Enchantress TOO much?

Only if she enchanted you to like her too much.

Ben
08-05-2007, 12:49 PM
Only if she enchanted you to like her too much.With the new Foolkiller series coming out and Slapstick appearing in Avengers: The Initiative, I think we need to find a new obscure, forgotten, neglected character to obsess about. Enchantress is a pretty good one, but she's taken. Were those Madballs comics in-continuity?

WillieLee
08-05-2007, 12:50 PM
Carrots suck.

Charlie_1981
08-05-2007, 01:13 PM
He told me at NYCC he reread Simonson's run before writing the first issue. She'll be in there.

It sounds very well, very encouraging, probably I have to start thinking in positive and not in negative.

Ben
08-05-2007, 01:14 PM
It sounds very well, very encouraging, probably I have to start thinking in positive and not in negative.Right after he said that, though, he muttered "just kidding" under his breath. So you might be in trouble!!!

Charlie_1981
08-05-2007, 01:17 PM
Right after he said that, though, he muttered "just kidding" under his breath. So you might be in trouble!!!

I would be nice if The Enchantress appears, in opposite case, I would return to complain, itīs my nature.

Albert
08-05-2007, 01:18 PM
With the new Foolkiller series coming out and Slapstick appearing in Avengers: The Initiative, I think we need to find a new obscure, forgotten, neglected character to obsess about. Enchantress is a pretty good one, but she's taken. Were those Madballs comics in-continuity?

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN

YOUR FIRST CROP OF OBSCURE, FORGOTTEN, NEGLECTED CHARACTERS FOR BEN AND ALBERT TO OBSESS ABOUT CANDIDATES!

Chance!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/35/MarvelChanceCover.JPG/395px-MarvelChanceCover.JPG

The Pantheon!

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/pantheonhulk9.jpg

Threnody!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/09/Xman13.jpg/250px-Xman13.jpg

D.K.!

http://www.spiderfan.org/comics/images/spiderman_sensational/017-b.jpg

Billy Walters!

Couldn't find a picture. But I know I want to know what happened to him after he left to take care of his aging mother.

Ben
08-05-2007, 01:20 PM
Billy Walters!

Couldn't find a picture. But I know I want to know what happened to him after he left to take care of his aging mother.I wonder if Peter will visit him during One More Day. "You did such a good job taking care of your sick mother, I thought you could help me take care of my sick aunt (who is like a mother to me)."

Albert
08-05-2007, 01:21 PM
I wonder if Peter will visit him during One More Day. "You did such a good job taking care of your sick grandmother, I thought you could help me take care of my sick aunt."

I'm pretty sure it was his mother.

adam_warlock_2099
08-05-2007, 01:22 PM
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN

YOUR FIRST CROP OF OBSCURE, FORGOTTEN, NEGLECTED CHARACTERS FOR BEN AND ALBERT TO OBSESS ABOUT CANDIDATES!

Threnody!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/09/Xman13.jpg/250px-Xman13.jpg

Nate's got Jungle Fever?

Albert
08-05-2007, 01:25 PM
Nate's got Jungle Fever?

:roll:

Ben
08-05-2007, 01:25 PM
I'm pretty sure it was his mother.
Fixed

Ben
08-05-2007, 01:25 PM
Nate's got Jungle Fever?Or maybe he just saw her as a person and not a skin color.

Albert
08-05-2007, 01:26 PM
Fixed

Either way, I think we can agree that Pete would have some nerve to try and reach out to Billy after the way he rebuffed his attempts at friendship at every turn back in the day.

Ben
08-05-2007, 01:27 PM
Either way, I think we can agree that Pete would have some nerve to try and reach out to Billy after the way he rebuffed his attempts at friendship at every turn back in the day.
He's pretty desperate for help, though.

adam_warlock_2099
08-05-2007, 01:30 PM
Or maybe he just saw her as a person and not a skin color.

Was just a question, not meant as a racial slur. Just didn't remember that particular issue.

Ben
08-05-2007, 01:31 PM
Was just a question, not meant as a racial slur. Just didn't remember that particular issue.Nice try! I don't think there's any coming back from that one!

adam_warlock_2099
08-05-2007, 01:33 PM
Nice try! I don't think there's any coming back from that one!

:roll: I'll take my confederate flag down if you ever come visit.

Charlie_1981
08-05-2007, 01:35 PM
Returning to the thread before talking about other non relationated things, there is a person in another forum that has said this to me.

I read somewhere on line that, because of the comics code, when the Nordic pantheon was recreated in THOR, they were not allowed to use two of the Aesir, Frey and Freya, who were brother and sister, and god and goddess or fertility, because there was a strong sexual component to this. The brilliant creators decided to change the god and goddess' names, water down the more tawdry and lewd elements, creating Fandral and Amora. I would like to see the Enchantress become more like the source material, the Elder Eddas, etc. She was goddess of fertility, love, magic, war and death.

In addition exists a thing for the one that can be impossible to do that Amora is more like the character of the one that on the theory sheīs based.

This one is the link.

http: // www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/freyathor.htm

Which is your opinion?

Albert
08-05-2007, 01:37 PM
Nice try! I don't think there's any coming back from that one!

Seriously. That dude's gotta work on some things.

Charlie_1981
08-07-2007, 07:38 AM
For adding some thing more to the thread, I give you a link in which there are many images of the Enchantress, undoubtedly the best image of all is the pic drawn by Adam Hughes (I would like to see some drawing of The Enchantress by Greg Horn or Frank Cho some day)

http://www.marveldatabase.com/Enchantress/Gallery

Jef UK
08-07-2007, 07:55 AM
I was ambivilent towards the Enchantress before this thread. Now I hate her.

Charlie_1981
08-07-2007, 08:08 AM
I was ambivalent towards the Enchantress before this thread. Now I hate her.

Well, I already said in the beginning of the thread that already I was tired of speaking about her, I have given arguments to discuss, examples of all kinds, now basically it is a question of which she returns to appear, Iīm pessimistic in this sense though there are occasions in which I have tried to be positive, talk in a serious way, probably nothing of what I say, for many examples that I should put serve for nothing, there are persons who are agree with me, other persons, no. My opinion is known for everything what I have said in the thread, if she doesn't appear, I will not return to speak about her, I will have given up.

DAVE
08-07-2007, 08:36 AM
I was ambivalent towards the Enchantress before this thread. Now, I'm enchanted!

bartleby
08-07-2007, 08:37 AM
Every time someone posts in this thread, Goddard dies a little more inside.

Charlie_1981
08-07-2007, 08:49 AM
This that I write would be the end of my Enchantressīs thread and what I write is something very serious that can be defined in a question.

Is it worth to continue talking about a character who isnīt going to return?

I donīt know which will be your opinion, but really Iīm grateful for the whole people who always has answered to my thread and they have tried to maintain a good and serious discussion about a character like her.

The question is that everything what I was saying was true, actually for much that Iīm effort in speaking about a character that I like a lot and to try in several boards that the people who didnīt know anything of her existence know her, besides some good discussions about her relevancy in the Marvel Universe, which two writers had done with her, examples of characters of other books who were nothing and now are popular... Nothing of it serves. This is the end, she will not return. I have assumed it, the question is if you can start to assuming it. Amora has disappeared forever.

I know that a lot of people are agreed with me in some points and that they wish in the same way as I (some persons more, other persons less) that the Enchantress returns, but sometimes it is necessary to assume the facts, for much that we the readers and fans wish that a character returns, there are moments in which it doesnīt serve as anything if the writer of the book that we read, ignores the things for very big fans that we are of his/her work (personally I like everything what I have read of JMS except some strange things like Sins past).

The truth is that since I started writing in these boards, I have tried to speak about the Enchantress in terms very different from those that many people speak, trying to add new ideas, complaining in occasions that a character like her deserves more and to obtain a respect, justice and a better development that she never had before, the question is this is the end, if I hadnīt spoken about the Enchantress, nobody had done it and the discussions about Thorīs book always would be of speaking about Thor and Odin levels of power, or who is the strongest Hulk, Superman, Sentry or Thor (with the same and same arguments again), or in very small occasions, to speak about other characters who werenīt any of this two.

Since I wrote The Enchantress thread, I have tried to effort in adding new arguments for the discussion, I use the Enchantressīs character to explain why so interesting characters and with such a big potential, always end up being wasted badly, there are persons who have tried to maintain a serious discussion and others basically were doing jokes when I was trying to speak seriously about this, because really it is important for me if a character that I like so much, practically from her first appearance has been wasted again and again whereas other characters always were updated and the writers who were writing these books really were worrying about improving them in every sense, something that in Thor's book always has been absent. Iīm pessimistic, it is true, and unfortunately it is necessary to start assuming that the Enchantress has stopped existing in the Marvel Universe because no writer, even those who write Thor remember that she exists and that had a relation with Thor that should have developed much better of how it has been done.

There are occasions in which I have said that I didnīt want to continue speaking about the Enchantress and in a few hours or the following day I thought it better and I decided to return to speak about her but this time isnīt one of these occasions, this time is the end. If someone wants to speak about it, no problem, I listen and I would be ready to discuss if anyone cares really but itīs a hard and sad decision that I have taken and Iīm going to support it. Iīm sorry.

Jef UK
08-07-2007, 09:02 AM
[...]but itīs a hard and sad decision that I have taken and Iīm going to support it.

We'll make it through not talking extensively about the Enchantress together somehow. We just have to take things one day at a time, and hope against hopes that we have the strength to make it a week, a month, maybe even years without talking extensively about the Enchantress. And who knows, maybe someday Marvel will become a corporation with a catalogue of characters it has to use or risk losing their copyrights to those characters. Maybe someday Marvel will publish a book called Thor, and use his supporting cast in the stories they tell. And maybe, just maybe, Enchantress will appear again.

Ben
08-07-2007, 09:12 AM
I saw this blonde chick today that looked just like the Enchantress (generic blonde-looking woman)!!! I almost asked her for directions to Asgard, but I have a gf and didn't want her to think I was asking her back to her place!

Tom Burgos
08-07-2007, 09:30 AM
Well, I already said in the beginning of the thread that already I was tired of speaking about her, I have given arguments to discuss, examples of all kinds, now basically it is a question of which she returns to appear, Iīm pessimistic in this sense though there are occasions in which I have tried to be positive, talk in a serious way, probably nothing of what I say, for many examples that I should put serve for nothing, there are persons who are agree with me, other persons, no. My opinion is known for everything what I have said in the thread, if she doesn't appear, I will not return to speak about her, I will have given up.

Charlie, I bet that Amora will re-appear soon.
Just like Dermie said, she's been a huge part of Thor's mythos in all his incarnatiuons for a long time, if there are characters that are bound to re-appear, they are probably odin, Loki, Sif and Amora.

And please, don't be discouraged by the thread being derailed by jokes and whatnot, this is a community that is like that and it doesn't mean that your opinions aren't valid or respected.
Except for the rare self-aggrandizing post by the occasional douchebag whose only feeling of "power" is steamrolling his opinions across the interwebbie as fact, everyone here is pretty much solid, respectful, lovely people.

So please, feel free to express your opinions, points of views and yes, thoughts about Amora however you want.

Tom Burgos
08-07-2007, 09:34 AM
There are occasions in which I have said that I didnīt want to continue speaking about the Enchantress and in a few hours or the following day I thought it better and I decided to return to speak about her but this time isnīt one of these occasions, this time is the end. If someone wants to speak about it, no problem, I listen and I would be ready to discuss if anyone cares really but itīs a hard and sad decision that I have taken and Iīm going to support it. Iīm sorry.

Charlie...in that link you posted to the Enchantress gallery, which one is the Adam Hughes pic?
I didn't recognize any image as his style...

Charlie_1981
08-07-2007, 09:45 AM
Charlie, I bet that Amora will re-appear soon.
Just like Dermie said, she's been a huge part of Thor's mythos in all his incarnatiuons for a long time, if there are characters that are bound to re-appear, they are probably odin, Loki, Sif and Amora.

And please, don't be discouraged by the thread being derailed by jokes and whatnot, this is a community that is like that and it doesn't mean that your opinions aren't valid or respected.
Except for the rare self-aggrandizing post by the occasional douchebag whose only feeling of "power" is steamrolling his opinions across the interwebbie as fact, everyone here is pretty much solid, respectful, lovely people.

So please, feel free to express your opinions, points of views and yes, thoughts about Amora however you want.

I know it, but there are moments in which it is very hard, to try to speak about something like that without getting tired too much and doing a big effort.

This is the Enchantress pic by Adam Hughes

http://www.marveldatabase.com/Image:Enchantress_023.jpg

Jef UK
08-07-2007, 09:47 AM
I know it, but there are moments in which it is very hard, to try to speak about something like that without getting tired too much and doing a big effort.

This is the Enchantress pic by Adam Hughes

http://www.marveldatabase.com/Image:Enchantress_023.jpg

You've put forth a lot of effort.

I'm just playin' witchoo. Go on wit your bad self!

Tom Burgos
08-07-2007, 11:10 AM
I know it, but there are moments in which it is very hard, to try to speak about something like that without getting tired too much and doing a big effort.

This is the Enchantress pic by Adam Hughes

http://www.marveldatabase.com/Image:Enchantress_023.jpg

Awesome pic.
I guess I overlooked it.

Thanks!

BTW...whatever happened to Amora's sister...Lorelei, I think she was called?

Charlie_1981
08-07-2007, 11:32 AM
Awesome pic.
I guess I overlooked it.

Thanks!

BTW...whatever happened to Amora's sister...Lorelei, I think she was called?

whatever happened to Lorelei, well, this a strange case, She died in that book after Onslaught, Journey into Mystery: The Lost Gods, but in a too big incoherence to be able to understand it, she appeared alive without any type of explanation of why in The Defenders who wrote Kurt Busiek and Erik Larsen some time ago. After that history it isnīt known what happens with her, simply she disappeared, she donīt appear in the saga of the Reigning nor in the 6 last issues that Mike Oeming wrote on Thor.

J. R. Scherer
08-07-2007, 02:30 PM
Mark Millar, Iīm sure that also would make something different with the Enchantress and I would say that it would be so fun or possibly more than when John Byrne wrote or Dan Slott writes She-Hulk. And of artists, Alan Davis, Carlos Pacheco, Brian Hitch or Arthur Adams would be perfect.

Alan Davis can do no wrong. Have him write and draw the book. Or better yet, have him go back to his ClanDestine book.

bradical
08-07-2007, 02:47 PM
Alan Davis can do no wrong. Have him write and draw the book. Or better yet, have him go back to his ClanDestine book.

don't forget neary. it'd be like batman without a robin.

Charlie_1981
08-09-2007, 12:56 AM
Alan Davis can do no wrong. Have him write and draw the book. Or better yet, have him go back to his ClanDestine book.

Could be very cool see it, but I simply speak about a feeling and a thought that I have and unfortunately I know it because I believe that there are examples that demonstrate it, before Walt Simonson's run (if he hadnīt recovered her, nobody had done it), during the first issues of Dan Jurgens, and in certain way in two simple panels in Mike Oeming's run.

Anyone thinks that with JMS is going to be different?. My answer is NO.

The truth, just now I donīt know to think, many things should change in order that I return to speak about her, at the moment, I will wait several months and see it with my own eyes.

Sam Johnson
08-09-2007, 04:53 AM
We'll make it through not talking extensively about the Enchantress together somehow. We just have to take things one day at a time, and hope against hopes that we have the strength to make it a week, a month, maybe even years without talking extensively about the Enchantress. And who knows, maybe someday Marvel will become a corporation with a catalogue of characters it has to use or risk losing their copyrights to those characters. Maybe someday Marvel will publish a book called Thor, and use his supporting cast in the stories they tell. And maybe, just maybe, Enchantress will appear again.

I wouldn't laugh, Jef UK. Charlie_1981's bearing the burden so we don't have to. Although his is a sad and lonely life, and requires forgoing all pleasures of the opposite sex, he's dedicated himself to a ceasless campaign to bring back the Enchantress. Then, maybe he'll find peace.

Some might call him a hero.

What I want to know is, what's Charlie's reaction gonna be if the Enchantress does show up in Thor? I'm predicting joyful heart attack.

Charlie_1981
08-10-2007, 05:45 AM
I wouldn't laugh, Jef UK. Charlie_1981's bearing the burden so we don't have to. Although his is a sad and lonely life, and requires forgoing all pleasures of the opposite sex, he's dedicated himself to a ceaseless campaign to bring back the Enchantress. Then, maybe he'll find peace.

Some might call him a hero.

What I want to know is, what's Charlie's reaction gonna be if the Enchantress does show up in Thor? I'm predicting joyful heart attack.

Yes, maybe some day.

If she appears in Thor, I will have to recognize that I should be wrong thinking in a negative way and being so pessimistic, but it only was happening if she appears and depending on the class of changes that exist.

Charlie_1981
08-16-2007, 11:31 PM
For recovering a bit the thread, I might speak about Lorelei, but Iīm not sure that the people know this character, except all those persons who have read Walter Simonson's run in Thor.

Anyhow, everything what I have said about Amora, also it might apply to Lorelei.

J. R. Scherer
08-17-2007, 05:18 AM
For recovering a bit the thread, I might speak about Lorelei, but Iīm not sure that the people know this character, except all those persons who have read Walter Simonson's run in Thor.

Anyhow, everything what I have said about Amora, also it might apply to Lorelei.

Lorelei doesn't possess any real sorcerous skill and is pretty much a snivelling coward, though. It's Amora all the way.

Charlie_1981
08-17-2007, 05:41 AM
Lorelei doesn't possess any real sorcerous skill and is pretty much a snivelling coward, though. It's Amora all the way.

Possibly, but if you want that I tell you the truth, I donīt believe that Lorelei is a coward, unlike her older sister, she is alone and doesn't seem to need the help of a partner, the cowardice can be confused with selfishly and a too big indifference that might be defined as insensitive or arrogance.

J. R. Scherer
08-17-2007, 05:55 AM
Possibly, but if you want that I tell you the truth, I donīt believe that Lorelei is a coward, unlike her older sister, she is alone and doesn't seem to need the help of a partner, the cowardice can be confused with selfishly and a too big indifference that might be defined as insensitive or arrogance.

Nah, Lorelei is a putz. She's got nothin' to fall back on when her one plan of seducing whoever goes south. She's the member of the family that Amora is ashamed to admit is actually blood related.

Charlie_1981
08-17-2007, 06:09 AM
Nah, Lorelei is a putz. She's got nothin' to fall back on when her one plan of seducing whoever goes south. She's the member of the family that Amora is ashamed to admit is actually blood related.

Then with it, you would say that time that Lorelei managed to seduce Thor and to humiliate her sister demonstrated that Amora was feeling shame to have a younger sister so idiot who wasn't hesitating to cross a line that not even Amora had value to cross because she was going in opposition to the asgardian laws. In addition, speaking a bit seriously, I believe that it is Lorelei who is ashamed of her older sister.

Charlie_1981
08-19-2007, 08:16 AM
And in all that, I will say a thing that is the big difference between both sisters inside the Marvel Universe. With Lorelei, the problem is much more serious, such a good character and with so much potential as her, which in addition appeared in the Thor's best run, was totally ruined and missing without giving an opportunity.

Charlie_1981
08-22-2007, 11:41 AM
The one who wants to continue commenting on some thing, no problem, I already have said everything what I had to say and in certain way, I would like to see some opinion more, because sincerely it can happen a lot of time until I return to speak about this character.

adam_warlock_2099
08-22-2007, 12:26 PM
And in all that, I will say a thing that is the big difference between both sisters inside the Marvel Universe. With Lorelei, the problem is much more serious, such a good character and with so much potential as her, which in addition appeared in the Thor's best run, was totally ruined and missing without giving an opportunity.

Lorelei was most definatly best used in Simonson's run on Thor. Almost got to liking her more than the Enchantress . . . but then she hasn't been used as much by other writers as the Enchantress. (At least of what I have read of Thor.)

Charlie_1981
08-22-2007, 12:36 PM
Lorelei was most definatly best used in Simonson's run on Thor. Almost got to liking her more than the Enchantress . . . but then she hasn't been used as much by other writers as the Enchantress. (At least of what I have read of Thor.)

Because of it I say it, it is surprising that good characters are wasted because simply the writer does not like or do not know that to do with him or her.

adam_warlock_2099
08-22-2007, 12:47 PM
Because of it I say it, it is surprising that good characters are wasted because simply the writer does not like or do not know that to do with him or her.

There is a similar discussion on CBR regarding the mini Jim Starlin is writting that involves killing all the New Gods, because the EIC was quoted as saying they didn't know what to do with them.

Charlie_1981
08-22-2007, 01:04 PM
There is a similar discussion on CBR regarding the mini Jim Starlin is writting that involves killing all the New Gods, because the EIC was quoted as saying they didn't know what to do with them.

The truth is that it is a problem, in addition the fact that Lorelei is the only asgardian that wasn't in Asgard when the Ragnarok happened it is something that should be important. There are moments in which I ask myself that it should do and if the writer knows the character and that he thinks to do with him or her.

Charlie_1981
09-05-2007, 08:10 PM
Hey, Iīm back, in all these days that I couldnīt have connected due to serious failures in the computer and some tests that I had do in the hospital, I have thought about many things and I have come to the conclusion of which to complain too much regarding this theme, doesnīt serve as anything, in certain way, probably itīs a question of waiting and seeing in the moment that she returns, speaking and discussing about it, so much if what is done is good or is something that could disappoint all people. On one hand, I think in positive and with the hope that she returns and for another side, I think in a negative way and I feel as if what could happen could be something disappointing.

Charlie_1981
01-02-2008, 09:21 AM
I have recovered the thread because at the end of Thor 5, The Enchantress has returned, but it turns out to be strange to see her between Hela, a Frost giant and what is supposed might be Fafnir or Midgard's Serpent. The only thing for that I wait from JMS is that he doesnīt ignore or forget that the Enchantress had reformed and she was on Thorīs side.

Jim T.
01-02-2008, 09:24 AM
I have recovered the thread because at the end of Thor 5, The Enchantress has returned, but it turns out to be strange to see her between Hela, a Frost giant and what is supposed might be Fafnir or Midgard's Serpent. The only thing for that I wait from JMS is that he doesnīt ignore or forget that the Enchantress had reformed and she was on Thorīs side.

She may be a Skrull...

adam_warlock_2099
01-02-2008, 09:51 AM
She may be a Skrull...

Are you a Skrull Jim? :lol:

Jim T.
01-02-2008, 09:53 AM
Are you a Skrull Jim? :lol:

All will be revealed!!!

Albert
01-02-2008, 10:03 AM
I want to know what Charlie_1981 has been up to these last few months. It's been an eventful time! Holidays, what have you.

Charlie_1981
01-02-2008, 10:33 AM
I want to know what Charlie_1981 has been up to these last few months. It's been an eventful time! Holidays, what have you.

All these months I have been sick, everything was OK and now Iīm back again in the boards justly in the moment in which one of my favorite characters is back, now only itīs a question of wait and see what happens and now only speculations can be done of what can happen with her.

Charlie_1981
01-04-2008, 07:19 AM
In this return of the Enchantress, I would wish that this return is something serious and really good and not slightly brief and lacking of sense.

Jim T.
01-04-2008, 07:49 AM
In this return of the Enchantress, I would wish that this return is something serious and really good and not slightly brief and lacking of sense.

If her chin starts to look wrinkled, expect disappointment...

Charlie_1981
01-04-2008, 08:14 AM
If her chin starts to look wrinkled, expect disappointment...

I say it seriously, I wouldnīt like that the reappearance of the Enchantress ends up by being anything that doesnīt serve anything and that is something brief, which I want to say it is that I would like this character will have the respect that has deserved for years and could be a important part in the history.

TheTravis!
01-04-2008, 09:08 AM
I want to know what Charlie_1981 has been up to these last few months. It's been an eventful time! Holidays, what have you.

That's easy. He's been thinking about the ways in which the Enchantress is awesome.

Jim T.
01-04-2008, 10:14 AM
I say it seriously, I wouldnīt like that the reappearance of the Enchantress ends up by being anything that doesnīt serve anything and that is something brief, which I want to say it is that I would like this character will have the respect that has deserved for years and could be a important part in the history.

I don't know if you've seen them in Spain but Marvel's been re-printing the Avengers from Issue #1 on and packaging them with new stories, including a bunch drawn by Oeming. They're currently up to Avengers #8 or so, which means Enchantress appearances both in the reprint, as well as the new stories. You may want to check them out....

Charlie_1981
01-04-2008, 08:54 PM
I don't know if you've seen them in Spain but Marvel's been re-printing the Avengers from Issue #1 on and packaging them with new stories, including a bunch drawn by Oeming. They're currently up to Avengers #8 or so, which means Enchantress appearances both in the reprint, as well as the new stories. You may want to check them out....

Here, in Spain, these comics havenīt come yet but sincerely to revise remakes of old histories that already I have in original version it isn't anything that convinces me too much, anyhow, probably when I could see them, I could have an opinion.

Itīs possible that Iīm a bit exaggerated, negative and pessimistic for saying that JMS doesnīt have nothing well-considered about the Enchantress and that probably I underestimate the knowledge that he could have about if he knows that Thor and the Enchantress had a relation and The Enchantress had reformed. Sometimes when someone thinks badly, normally he can succeed, I would wish to be wrong in this.

Charlie_1981
01-15-2008, 11:02 AM
Sincerely I would like to know your opinion about this, already I know a bit your opinion regarding the Enchantress but I wanted to know what you think about a character as Lorelei.

Lorelei hasn't appeared for Thor's book in years, I have the opinion of which she always has been a character with a very big potential that nobody has tried to take advantage and if anyone was taking advantage enough, Lorelei might be a character with enough importance not only for the fact of being the sister of Amora the Enchantress.

If some writer remembered her existence, probably she might return because in my humbler opinion, she always has been one of the best characters from Walter Simonson's run.

Hey, I speak seriously, I would like to read a good opinion about this. With this I summarize that itīs possible that to many people likes a type of characters that had liked a lot or would like that they were appearing more, these characters donīt remain in the Limbo as if they hadnīt existed.

adam_warlock_2099
01-15-2008, 11:34 AM
Sincerely I would like to know your opinion about this, already I know a bit your opinion regarding the Enchantress but I wanted to know what you think about a character as Lorelei.

Lorelei hasn't appeared for Thor's book in years, I have the opinion of which she always has been a character with a very big potential that nobody has tried to take advantage and if anyone was taking advantage enough, Lorelei might be a character with enough importance not only for the fact of being the sister of Amora the Enchantress.

If some writer remembered her existence, probably she might return because in my humbler opinion, she always has been one of the best characters from Walter Simonson's run.

Hey, I speak seriously, I would like to read a good opinion about this. With this I summarize that itīs possible that to many people likes a type of characters that had liked a lot or would like that they were appearing more, these characters donīt remain in the Limbo as if they hadnīt existed.

Unfortuantly a lot of charecter that turn to being unpopular for whatever reason seem to reside out in that comic limbo, until someone decides to use them in their writings.

As far as Lorelei is concerned, I do agree that Walt Simonson handled her the best in his run of Thor. I think the reason that is run was so well done and interesting is because he did bring back these Thor related characters and used them, and used them well.

The same could also be said of Beta Ray Bill who seemed to float out there in limbo a lot after Simonson's intital story of him, and only used here and there. Most notably that I can remember is Cosmic Powers Unlimited and Thor Corp.

There are a great many characters out there that have been created and forgotten and I think that has more to do with writer's perception of what the reader wants then it has to do with what the writer themselves want to write about. At least to some degree.

Charlie_1981
01-15-2008, 11:53 AM
Unfortuantly a lot of charecter that turn to being unpopular for whatever reason seem to reside out in that comic limbo, until someone decides to use them in their writings.

Itīs true and there are occasions that with certain characters it is well but with others it is something that ends up being unjust since, scarcely one has tried to do the effort to take advantage of the potential that they have.


As far as Lorelei is concerned, I do agree that Walt Simonson handled her the best in his run of Thor. I think the reason that is run was so well done and interesting is because he did bring back these Thor related characters and used them, and used them well.

It is true, but the writers who came after Walt Simonson might have done some type of effort in taking advantage of the great potential that Lorelei had and even she has, any writer if remembers that this character exists, he might take advantage well the character and do many interesting things without she loses the whole captivation that has.


The same could also be said of Beta Ray Bill who seemed to float out there in limbo a lot after Simonson's intital story of him, and only used here and there. Most notably that I can remember is Cosmic Powers Unlimited and Thor Corp.

I remember well it, really they managed to break the character up to inexplicable limits, though Mike Oeming recover him and he did everything possible to make something interesting with him.


There are a great many characters out there that have been created and forgotten and I think that has more to do with writer's perception of what the reader wants then it has to do with what the writer themselves want to write about. At least to some degree.

It is true, but sometimes there are mistakes that depending on the skill and imagination of the writer it can be solved. I put Lorelei's example because I think that it is one of the most serious cases of ignorance of a fantastic character.

Try to test of looking for Lorelei's drawings (asgardian) for Internet, practically it is zero.

adam_warlock_2099
01-15-2008, 12:32 PM
Itīs true and there are occasions that with certain characters it is well but with others it is something that ends up being unjust since, scarcely one has tried to do the effort to take advantage of the potential that they have.

My user name is a testement to forgotten characters and multiverses (2099), so I completely agree with you.


It is true, but the writers who came after Walt Simonson might have done some type of effort in taking advantage of the great potential that Lorelei had and even she has, any writer if remembers that this character exists, he might take advantage well the character and do many interesting things without she loses the whole captivation that has.

I really honestly think that Simonson (and obviously this is a guess, as I don't know the man) felt at home or comfortable with Thor, it's characters and settings. Outside of the present run (so far) I have never really been drawn into Thor and his world like I did when reading those written by Simonson. And I am sure that would have a lot to do with it being the first Thor books that I read. And that he is a talented writer. But the same can be said for Roy Thomas as well with Thor.


I remember well it, really they managed to break the character up to inexplicable limits, though Mike Oeming recover him and he did everything possible to make something interesting with him.

I have really been meaning to get those issues Mike Oeming did. I have heard very good things about them.


It is true, but sometimes there are mistakes that depending on the skill and imagination of the writer it can be solved. I put Lorelei's example because I think that it is one of the most serious cases of ignorance of a fantastic character.

Try to test of looking for Lorelei's drawings (asgardian) for Internet, practically it is zero.

Yes the writer's skill is quite evident in the way that they handle characters. But there is also editorial demands and characters that a writer may have to do something with that they are either not comfortable with or just can't get into or get a good vibe out of.

Charlie_1981
01-15-2008, 06:13 PM
My user name is a testement to forgotten characters and multiverses (2099), so I completely agree with you.



I really honestly think that Simonson (and obviously this is a guess, as I don't know the man) felt at home or comfortable with Thor, it's characters and settings. Outside of the present run (so far) I have never really been drawn into Thor and his world like I did when reading those written by Simonson. And I am sure that would have a lot to do with it being the first Thor books that I read. And that he is a talented writer. But the same can be said for Roy Thomas as well with Thor.



I have really been meaning to get those issues Mike Oeming did. I have heard very good things about them.



Yes the writer's skill is quite evident in the way that they handle characters. But there is also editorial demands and characters that a writer may have to do something with that they are either not comfortable with or just can't get into or get a good vibe out of.

I agree with you, because sometimes, characters are used again and again ignoring that exist others with better potential and that they can take advantage better that to use always to the same characters.

Lorelei is the sister of the Enchantress, in this sense innumerable things can be done with her and the conflict always would be guaranteed.

What you believe that it might happen now thinking or imagining the past relationship (forced by the Enchantress in its moment) between Lorelei and Loki?

Loki now is a woman, I donīt imagine to Lorelei with the same relation with Loki, unless JMS does that Lorelei is bisexual and could have relations with both sexes.

Charlie_1981
01-19-2008, 09:32 AM
Anyhow for much that I strain in speaking about Lorelei, this character will remain forgotten until someone remembers her, and Iīm afraid that the writers who writes Thor now and after doesnīt remember or know that The Enchantress has a younger sister.

Doing a small summary: The problem is a problem basically of ignorance and lack of knowledge.

Charlie_1981
01-27-2008, 09:12 AM
Returning to try to speak about Lorelei, sister of the Enchantress.

Does someone believe or trust that some day, she will return or she will be still missing and forgotten?

Keith P.
01-27-2008, 09:14 AM
This thread gives me the jibblies.

And not the good kind.

Charlie_1981
01-27-2008, 09:31 AM
This thread gives me the jibblies.

And not the good kind.

Well, basically I do a question that can have an easy and coherent response, it is a doubt that I have.

Charlie_1981
01-28-2008, 09:36 AM
In my humble opinion, I would like a lot that Lorelei return to appear. I donīt know if this Lorelei's version that appears in the second issue of The Ultimates 3 is the Ultimate version of the asgardian Lorelei or the mutant of the Savage Land, for the color of the hair it would seems the Ultimate version of the Lorelei of the Savage Land but with a bit of the power and the personality of the asgardian Lorelei. Anyhow, before raving, I think that Lorelei should return to the Thor pages, though it is in a filler (or not) issue that explains where she has been all this time that goes missing.

Charlie_1981
02-27-2008, 06:55 PM
I have decided to recover the thread, to say that even I havenīt read the issue 6 but if there happens what I think, it is evident that Lorelei will not return nevermore, and in a certain way it would be a misfortune. Iīm not going to extend in anything that already I have said previously but it is sad to see how they forget a character who had so much potential and who nobody has tried to do anything to recover it.

At last, the thread that, in a beginning I wanted to speak about the Enchantress and later I have tried to add Lorelei, only it is going to be an Enchantress thread because Lorelei is, has been and she will be forgotten forever.

Charlie_1981
03-23-2008, 10:02 PM
Finally I have returned to connect after so much time, I have had too many problems with the computer, but already are resolved.

I have read some posts in which the people speak and compare She-Loki's theme with the Enchantress, and I have to say that it turns out to be sad to think that the Enchantress doesn't have or she will not have any space in Thor's book with everything what the character means and what it would mean a justification of which Loki now is a woman. With this I'm saying that The Enchantress can or she might finish turning into a character totally ignored by the writers as Lorelei, or, with Loki turned in a woman, already it wouldn't exist reasons in order that the Enchantress or Lorelei appear for the Marvel books.

For me, it would be one of Marvel's major mistakes do it, or that for the fact that Loki is a woman, The Enchantress has to be eliminated, it should never be like that. The Enchantress is a great character and she should have an important role, it shouldn't be ignored, big things can be done with this character, many important and interesting things, the only thing for that I ask is justice and a bit more of respect.

Kefky
03-23-2008, 10:18 PM
o_O

Ashwin Pande
03-23-2008, 10:21 PM
Now THIS is horror.

Ben
03-23-2008, 10:22 PM
I heard the Enchantress is going to get her own series.

No, not really.

Charlie_1981
03-23-2008, 10:43 PM
Possibly, but I, all that would define it with a word: Sad

I believe that it wouldn't be so difficult to do anything interesting and important with this character, I'm conscious that there are persons who consider the theme of Loki is now a woman as a bad idea, other persons say that it can be something good, but turn Loki into a character type Amora the Enchantress when already she exists and exist Lorelei, it sounds very badly.

Slewo.O
03-23-2008, 10:49 PM
Possibly, but I, all that would define it with a word: Sad

I believe that it wouldn't be so difficult to do anything interesting and important with this character, I'm conscious that there are persons who consider the theme of Loki is now a woman as a bad idea, other persons say that it can be something good, but turn Loki into a character type Amora the Enchantress when already she exists and exist Lorelei, it sounds very badly.
Um Loki's quite different from the Enchantress. I don't think Thor's going to be interested in screwing his half-brother er sister. The difference is Enchantress tries to seduce Thor and try to take his throne and gain his affection. While Loki on the other hand just wants the throne and Thor's head on a stick.

Charlie_1981
03-23-2008, 11:02 PM
Um Loki's quite different from the Enchantress. I don't think Thor's going to be interested in screwing his half-brother er sister. The difference is Enchantress tries to seduce Thor and try to take his throne and gain his affection. While Loki on the other hand just wants the throne and Thor's head on a stick.

It is true, to change the personality and motivations of a character without reasons, it would be to commit a big mistake, because then it wouldn't be the same character. The question is that I have seen some post in different boards in those that they compare Loki-woman with the Enchantress and sincerely Iīm worried enough that this fact could mean the elimination of the Enchantress without any reason.

Slewo.O
03-23-2008, 11:09 PM
It is true, to change the personality and motivations of a character without reasons, it would be to commit a big mistake, because then it wouldn't be the same character. The question is that I have seen some post in different boards in those that they compare Loki-woman with the Enchantress and sincerely Iīm worried enough that this fact could mean the elimination of the Enchantress without any reason.

Well considering that when Thor brought back ALL the Asgardians a couple of issues ago we saw the Enchantress among the returned it shows JMS probably have plans for her. He wouldn't bring them all back without reason.

Dusty
03-23-2008, 11:15 PM
She's the hottest comic book character ever. I want all of the Asgardians to return, especially Karnilla, who Marvel has neglected terribly. Loki needs to be a guy, too...

Slewo.O
03-23-2008, 11:42 PM
She's the hottest comic book character ever. I want all of the Asgardians to return, especially Karnilla, who Marvel has neglected terribly. Loki needs to be a guy, too...

For once I agree with you.

Charlie_1981
03-24-2008, 05:48 AM
Well considering that when Thor brought back ALL the Asgardians a couple of issues ago we saw the Enchantress among the returned it shows JMS probably have plans for her. He wouldn't bring them all back without reason.

I know and Iīm waiting to see soon what supposes it is going to happen or what it can happen with her. Iīm waiting to see something really good and interesting in the same level of the latest issues.

Gregory
03-24-2008, 05:51 AM
I know and Iīm waiting to see soon what supposes it is going to happen or what it can happen with her. Iīm waiting to see something really good and interesting in the same level of the latest issues.

I'm getting the same feeling after reading this comic. It's been all set-up so far, and something needs to happen soon.

Charlie_1981
04-20-2008, 02:20 AM
Any new about The Enchantress or everything is still the same (a small panel in Thor #5 and nothing more)?

Slewo.O
04-20-2008, 04:10 AM
Any new about The Enchantress or everything is still the same (a small panel in Thor #5 and nothing more)?

Yep. Just wait till she appears it's not like it's going to have it's own article going nutso about it she's not exactly the biggest Marvel character of importance.

Charlie_1981
04-20-2008, 04:22 AM
Yep. Just wait till she appears it's not like it's going to have it's own article going nutso about it she's not exactly the biggest Marvel character of importance.

Possibly, though unfortunately I think that in any way she will never have this importance that for years she should have but I have seen Matt Fractionīs Thor : Ages of Thunderīs synopsis and for what seems, the Enchantress might have some importance, though I'm not too sure of it.

Ashwin Pande
04-20-2008, 04:24 AM
creepy.

Slewo.O
04-20-2008, 04:27 AM
creepy.

How so?

Hyperstorm
04-20-2008, 04:30 AM
You know which version of The Enchantress I really liked?

The one that appeared in Warren Ellis' run on the title just before Onslaught.

Ah .... good times.

Charlie_1981
04-20-2008, 05:01 AM
You know which version of The Enchantress I really liked?

The one that appeared in Warren Ellis' run on the title just before Onslaught.

Ah .... good times.

Youīre right, good times.

I suppose that now it is very difficult to ask for miracles when still it isn't known that it is going to happen. I for the present time, I give a space of 6 issues (until 16) in Thor's book, to see if the Enchantress appears or simply she is ignored, turning, if she it isn't already, in a character who will never evolve.

Emma Frost was a villainess, member of the Hellfire Club ..., but several writers risked and turned her into one of the most popular figures of the X-books, Generation-X leader, member of the X-men, lover of Cyclops... The best of all the possible examples of what was, is and could be a character as the Enchantress if any writer was doing the things well.

bradical
04-20-2008, 06:57 AM
i love this thread.

Ashwin Pande
04-20-2008, 06:58 AM
i love this thread.

Certainly not as much as you love Enchantress?!

Ben
04-20-2008, 07:01 AM
Any new about The Enchantress or everything is still the same (a small panel in Thor #5 and nothing more)?Wouldn't you be the first to know?

adam_warlock_2099
04-20-2008, 07:06 AM
i love this thread.


Certainly not as much as you love Enchantress?!

Both are hot, so you really can't help but love both of them.

And Charlie, my suspicion is that the female Loki, might well be the Enchantress herself, posing as someone that Thor would recognize and perhaps trust. Even though Loki is a villian he's also his brother.

That's just a speculation of mine. I guess we will see as the series progresses.

Kirblar
04-20-2008, 07:10 AM
I would not care if this thread were to never return again.

And yes, he's still cross-posting.

http://forums.millarworld.tv/index.php?s=&showtopic=79452&view=findpost&p=1767836

chazbot
04-20-2008, 07:13 AM
I would not care if this thread were to never return again.

And yes, he's still cross-posting.

http://forums.millarworld.tv/index.php?s=&showtopic=79452&view=findpost&p=1767836

but we NEED our once a month updates!

Charlie_1981
04-20-2008, 08:09 AM
Wouldn't you be the first to know?


Right, but I was going more than one month without writing anything and without connection to Internet and I was thinking that probably someone knew if in this time there might be some new thing about her, but seeing the little that exists, I have decided to leave it in 6 months, probably more. At the moment, I will wait to see that it happens.

Charlie_1981
04-20-2008, 08:12 AM
Both are hot, so you really can't help but love both of them.

And Charlie, my suspicion is that the female Loki, might well be the Enchantress herself, posing as someone that Thor would recognize and perhaps trust. Even though Loki is a villian he's also his brother.

That's just a speculation of mine. I guess we will see as the series progresses.

I see it slightly probable, but I donīt care until issue 16, now it is a question of waiting, meanwhile, I will enjoy the Secret Invasion Saga and I will look at other things.

Jef UK
04-20-2008, 08:17 AM
They announced an Enchantress mini at Cup o' Joe this weekend at NYCC!

Slewo.O
04-20-2008, 08:18 AM
They announced an Enchantress mini at Cup o' Joe this weekend at NYCC!

Uh oh.

adam_warlock_2099
04-20-2008, 08:19 AM
I see it slightly probable, but I donīt care until issue 16, now it is a question of waiting, meanwhile, I will enjoy the Secret Invasion Saga and I will look at other things.

Is something suppose to happen in issue 16?

I'm thankful for Annihilation and Conquest, and Nova and looking forward to Guardians of the Galaxy.

adam_warlock_2099
04-20-2008, 08:19 AM
They announced an Enchantress mini at Cup o' Joe this weekend at NYCC!

Sweet.

Charlie_1981
04-20-2008, 08:24 AM
Is something suppose to happen in issue 16?

I'm thankful for Annihilation and Conquest, and Nova and looking forward to Guardians of the Galaxy.

I don't know it, but I prefer waiting 6 months or if before she returns to see how are developed the events, at the moment always I can enjoy reading other things, the sure only thing is that when the Enchantress returns really, already I will be able to be calmer.

Certainly, I have started reading the Annihilation Saga and really it is a great reading, better than I was waiting.

Charlie_1981
04-20-2008, 08:26 AM
They announced an Enchantress mini at Cup o' Joe this weekend at NYCC!

Are you serious or is a joke?

Albert
04-20-2008, 08:51 AM
Are you serious or is a joke?

Who would joke about such a thing?

Charlie_1981
04-20-2008, 09:46 AM
Who would joke about such a thing?

Well, it is a question of putting proofs of it, a link or some thing that is true.

I would do it if I see something important